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12-27-2013, 02:00 PM #11
Ah i already had a feeling that you would do 4 extruders on it since i just seen your Logo on your avatar.
Its just that i didnt see one on your printer that was shown above,
I would kinda suggest a heated bed tho, Its like a must for a 3D printer imo. Perhaps a milestone upgrade if you get * dollars pledged?
After that it looks like a great printer and very sturdy with your own ideas behind it.Last edited by DrLuigi; 12-27-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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12-27-2013, 03:21 PM #12
I really appreciate your reply, I think you pretty much answered all my questions, and I totally understand not wanting to get into any legal discourse with SSYS right now, they are playing hard ball and I wouldn't want to get in the way at all! don't blame you.
The only thing I have to make note of,
so far all the feedback we've had from the potential users is that PLA, HIPS, and Nylon are higher priority than ABS for them. So we've been told not to spend out time on this issue until later. Certainly before production machines go out the door, but not now. And we've followed that advice.
What does a heated bed element cost wholesale? $20? $30? not really a big outlay. This needs to be in the box, not an addon.
I'll leave you with this thought...
I didn't buy a Makerbot 2 because it couldn't print ABS out of the box. It wasn't a cost factor. I was prepared to spend $2800 - $3500 on a 3D printer, but found one for $1100 that did print PLA and ABS and did everything the makerbot did. The makerbot rep tried to sell me on PLA and convince me it was the best, but now after a year I am glad I went with my gut and bought a machine that can print in all filaments. HIPS, ABS, PLA, Nylon, Laywood3 - and it does, and it has.Last edited by Geoff; 12-27-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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12-27-2013, 04:24 PM #13
I hear you Geoff. We're also getting similar feedback from several other experienced folks, like yourself. Accordingly, we're going to raise the priority of printing in ABS up for the production machines.
For T-Rex-12 we have a couple of off the shelf options:
- Pannucatt (Azteeg vendor) has an 8"x8" PC-board, and I think Roy was showing a 12"x12" bed as well: http://www.panucatt.com/product_p/hbp200.htm I don't know what the cost of the 12" board will be, but I think it's probably reasonable ($50-$60?? maybe.)
- The silicone pads that a lot of folks use (like QU-BD, for example: http://store.qu-bd.com/product.php?id_product=29 at about $60+). Similar pads abound on Ebay for $40 shipped.
But for the larger machines, when we did the research in the Spring of this year, we heard numbers like $500-600 for custom pads plus additional power supplies (another $50) and the need to engineer a temperature control solution. That was the problem that stumped us. And given that we were hearing a strong "don't care about ABS" from the folks we were talking to at the time, we looked into how to go about solving this ourselves, and when we came up with a solution that looked reasonable after first-order analysis we shelved it for future reference.
So having heard how strongly folks feel about it, we're going to move this task up in the queue and address the issue sooner. I don't yet know when we'll have a prototype, but we will have this for production machines, one way or another.
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12-28-2013, 05:20 AM #14
Thanks for the detailed answer, I wish all prospective sellers were as researched. Personally, I am looking for a machine that can build large straight, long parts. Currently I am limited to an 8.66 inch build length, and really need between 12 and 16" for the quad and hexa copter parts I make.
The reason I also need the heated bed is because to keep PLA, ABS or anything for that matter straight, both while printing and after printing, you need heat.. if I don't have heat the parts warp after printing, which means it needs to spend days in the curing box getting heated and straightened, and quadcopter arms need to be dead straight. So yeah, I am looking for a machine that can say, print a long flat arm, say 1.5cm in height, 12" long.. at minimum 50%infill and not have it lose shape when I take it off the bed..
So yeah thats what im shopping for at the moment
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12-29-2013, 11:38 AM #15
Hi, Geoff,
I've spent a little time thinking about this. I think that with a heated bed an arm that is only 15mm tall might end up being straight to much larger size than what you currently do. I've already printed an object to 13" just on the 12" prototype that we have (it was printed diagonally) - see the snakes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3dmonst...n/photostream/ the larger snake is 13", the smaller (printed earlier) is 5"-ish and is there for comparison.
Would you like to send me a test design that I can try on my prototype machine in PLA (even w/o a heated bed)? I'm curious to see what will happen.
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12-30-2013, 01:24 AM #16
That would be great!
This quad arm takes me pretty much exactly 1.2 hours to print. I print them at 25 percent infill, obviously higher will yield a stronger arm but the idea is to keep it as low as possible, but without warping.
When I print them, they are dead straight, when I pull them off however, even after a full cooldown, the flat section will warp slightly. PLA didnt seem as bad, but since the ABS needs heat and I really sort of need to print them in ABS :/ PLA is no good even for small crashes with a quadcopter, ABS is alot more forgiving.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3h...u3/quadarm.zip
The arms in question are like these:
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12-31-2013, 03:18 PM #17
Thanks, Geoff, they look pretty cool. I love the truss design. I'll take a crack at them some time next week, I think.
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01-10-2014, 12:20 AM #18
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This is the streamline for 3D printing industries, including the used of 3D printer filaments. Coming From individual consumption to bigger industries such as automotive, architecture, medical, commercial and consumer products and even for concept modeling 3D printing machines works accurate and precise.
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01-15-2014, 01:28 PM #19
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I do not intend to work in PLA at all unless necessary. My first goals are ABS and nylon.
i already have another machine on order that is much smaller, but has a heated bed and has been tested with PLA and I believe nylon. Though of course they are trying to push their own filament.
However, I do like the larger size of your -24 for some of the projects I want to try. I am still worried that it hasn't been tested with anything that would prove that it would work at near the full envelope size. I would love to see a 23" open cube displayed to show no warpage. Once you have the machine, of course.
One thing I'm worrying about is that at such a large perimeter there would be too much time for the previous layer to cool before the next layer gets laid down, and I don't know how this will effect things. And yes, I'm worrying about SSYS being lawsuit happy right now. But I suppose I can make my own enclosure...
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01-15-2014, 02:08 PM #20
Hi, @DT,
I'll try to answer these one at a time:
Understood. We've heard it loud and clear from a lot of folks. Done deal. We'll have a heated bed. In fact, I just got off the Skype with Ed, one of our engineers, who's started prototyping our solution. I'll keep posting updates as we get progress. The next time you hear about it from me will be either because someone else has asked this question, or because we have something working in the lab.
Oh, boy, do I understand this! But no, we're not going to do that. Basically, we've designed our extruder to have the widest possible material spectrum we could, based on what we knew. And we're going to continue testing with various materials (I have some cool new filaments from Taulman sitting under my desk waiting to be cracked open).
Yes, we're very much looking forward to being able to test this.
We've done some PLA prints in the 13" range (diagonally on the 12" bed) and we didn't see any issues with layer adhesion, even when layers were fairly complex and took a long time. I'm pretty optimistic that there's not a step function there, as layers cool in a continuous decaying function, so a small incremental increase in time between layers should have diminishing negative effect on adhesion. But, of course, the proof is in the printing. Soon.
Re: enclosure: yes, this is an unfortunate situation. Although I can't help directly, I suspect that either some commercial entity may produce an enclosure for some other purpose that you may be able to re-purpose, or that the user community will come up with a shared solution.
Ben.
Ender 3v2 poor printing quality
10-28-2024, 09:08 AM in Tips, Tricks and Tech Help