# 3D Printing > General 3D Printing Discussion >  Could Patent Trolls steal your 3D Design?

## Jeremia_Munchkins

What I'm wondering about is what happens if someone creates a really cool  design, posts it on Shapeways or Thingiverse, and then someone else  tries to patent it?  Patents costs over $10,000, so most shapeways/thingiverse posters probably wouldn't be patenting their designs.  Could someone with a  lot of money simply go around and patent things that are being sold on  Shapeways, or offered for free on Thingiverse, and then claim it to be  their own design, and sell them for a profit, or are there laws that prohibit this?

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## Pomie1

From what I understand of the current laws, and that is not too much. The short answer is yes, but you could fight it.
This problem is not just a 3D printer problem, this issue has been a major part of industries for many years and there have been many times in history where this has happened.
In saying this, there are always ways to fight and prove that you are the 'intellectual owner' of the work based on the date it was created by you. Basically if you create some thing, it is yours, though this does not stop some one from creating something that is similar and selling that. 
I think the biggest issue around 3d printing is the 'Cloning' issues. that is when you create a design, there is very little to stop some one who has the skills to reproduce the design and print it. I must admit I am a culprit of this, though I always try and change the design so that it is unique to me. As 3D printing becomes more main stream, the laws will change to protect people/businesses from 'intellectual theft', may be even the cost of patents and copyrighting will reduce. 
I am glad you have posted this question as it is something I am very interested in.

and, as always, Keep Printing 

Pom

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## steve s

They can try but the patent won't be valid due to something called Prior Art.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art



> *Prior art* (*state of the art* or *background art*), in most systems of patent law, constitutes all information  that has been made available to the public in any form before a given  date that might be relevant to a patent's claims of originality.* If an invention has been described in the prior art, a patent on that invention is not valid.*



Steve S

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## Compro01

> They can try but the patent won't be valid due to something called Prior Art.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art
> 
> 
> 
> Steve S


Yes, but given that the USPTO doesn't seem to be paying any attention to prior art these days, you'd end up having to spend kilodollars in court to get it tossed out.

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## steve s

> Yes, but given that the USPTO doesn't seem to be paying any attention to prior art these days, you'd end up having to spend kilodollars in court to get it tossed out.


True, the burden is on you to enforce it.  I wonder if the OP is confusing patents with copyrights.  Most of the stuff you see on Shapeways and Sculpteo, etc., isn't patentable.

Steve S

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## DJNOS1978

Here is the deal. Sure major companies do steal things at times. But they also know that it is more beneficial to buy the product or rights from that person, depending on what it is.  Why cut off the access to the creativity/ability a person has buy stealing a product? That individual could have many more useful ideas, products, or inventions. It is situational though, not a blanket statement.
The biggest issue with the USPTO is that they will follow their outdated protocols to deny or approve patents, trademarks, copyrights, ect. As long as you fall in the perimeter of the process and pay the money they want, then you get the rights to your idea. Protecting that idea is up to you. And in some cases the court will side with the individual that the idea originated with and not who owns the rights. But do you have the money to fight? 
Advice: Don't let someone stealing your idea stop you from being productive or releasing a product.

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## RobH2

To go back to the initial question the answer is "yes." If you see something on Thingiverse and you find that it has no Patent Pending or Patent, you can in fact get it patented. What the Patent Trolls are doing is intimidating people. It's a real problem. They are well funded so most people are not going to be able to outlast them in court so will just give up on their dream. These unscrupulous people are really killing the American Dream of entrepreneurship and product development. There are a few Senators who have recognized this problem and from what I understand are working on Bills that might help slow the Trolls down. 

In product development there is a document called a Non-Disclosure that you get everyone you share your design with to sign. That prevents them from running off the second you leave and securing a patent on your idea. Thingiverse does not offer you any protection. If you show it someone can steal it and with enough lawyers, can falsely prove in court that they had it first and that you saw it from them. You won't win the battle. My advice would be that if you have a really good idea, never post it on Thingiverse or anywhere else until you at least get a Patent Pending. That's not too expensive and is fairly easy to get going. Patent Pending won't stop everyone either but it will make then thing twice and maybe pass over you on to someone without a Patent Pending. Google it. 

Let's face it, none of us are going to get rich printing the next best GoPro housing, one-at-at-time and home and shipping them. So for 99% of the stuff on Thingiverse, it's a non-issue. But there are some good ideas there that make me cringe when I see them. They are good ideas and should not have been made public. They will get taken away so fast.

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## PhotoSteve

I'm still new so forgive me but most people on thingiverse just upload the .stl file. As I understand it you can not change that file so if you were to steal it you wouldn't have a workable file for making changes ?

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## brisinger

There's plenty of software that you can edit .stl's with Sketchup and Blender being but two of them.

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## jamesinvents

> What I'm wondering about is what happens if someone creates a really cool  design, posts it on Shapeways or Thingiverse, and then someone else  tries to patent it?  Patents costs over $10,000, so most shapeways/thingiverse posters probably wouldn't be patenting their designs.  Could someone with a  lot of money simply go around and patent things that are being sold on  Shapeways, or offered for free on Thingiverse, and then claim it to be  their own design, and sell them for a profit, or are there laws that prohibit this?


If you know the law, you don't need to be afraid of this. An enabling disclosure of a design idea on a public Internet forum will not only prevent others, effective immediately from the time the post is made, from being able to legally patent your design, under 35 U.S.C. 102(f). It will also prevent you from being able to do so, provided a full year from the time of the original disclosure has passed, under 35 U.S.C. 102(b). 

Design patents are not very expensive, particularly if you qualify for small entity status. If you file yourself, which is not that difficult to do, you can expect to pay between $1200 and $2000 total, both in filing fees and fees for the rendering of professional drawings. 

That being said, I'm sure Rob is right that trolls get away with stealing designs. If you are in a position to know whether or not your design ideas are that good, however, it is highly unlikely that you would even be asking this question. 

If you don't know, but really believe your design has great commercial viability, filing for a patent is a smart thing to do. Unless it turns out that your belief is entirely mistaken.

Here's a link to a USPTO publication that would be immensely helpful for those who wish to file their own design patent applications.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com...rochure_05.pdf

Hope that helps,
James

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## steved1

I am not an attorney but have some practical general practical experience in this field.  A design patent is called different things in different Countries. It is basically a commercial thing meaning you are trying to protect a product that you are making money from. It is basically protects you from being copied and someone else passing of there product as yours, but this patent is "aesthetic"  and not an "inventive" patent. The aesthetic patent can be overcome with a few tweaks by someone to make it theres (just reality) If  you come up with something you wish to commercialize, then that is a cost benefit analysis decision for you. As  for you whether you wish to protect it or not that can be a long arduous, expensive and often unfruitful, futile exercise. If you have no or limited commercial interest and you simply want to have the work attributed to you (if it is yours) Then  put it "out there" in competitions, posts (like on this site)" Twitter, Facebook Etc you are documenting your intellectual ownership, with an evidenced priority date. If all that fails, try to accept "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" Or put a copyright mark date and name somewhere in or on your 3D work. Or,  keep it very private all up to you.

Cheers

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## awerby

Recently, the US patent office went from a "first to invent" to a "first to file" system, so it no longer helps to prove you had the idea before someone else filed for the patent. This was already standard in most other countries. It makes things simpler for the patent office, but it's another nail in the coffin of the individual inventor. 

Filing a patent is a complex and expensive process, and if you want to protect your idea in multiple countries, the complications and costs just multiply. And once you've filed, you have to keep paying large fees every year to keep your patent from being invalidated. Should it come to a court challenge, it's pretty much a trial by ordeal; the entity with the biggest pockets and the most staying power wins. So unless you've invented "Mr. Fusion" or something equally earthshaking, it's not really going to be worth filing for a patent, and if you have, you'll need to line up some major financial firepower to protect it. 

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

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## richardphat

I happen to be a victim when I was desiging ship model for a game. The guy at the end took all the credit. What can I expect when it's on the internet?
What I learnt is stop putting big project on the net or shared with some individual from the other continent. You'll lose much more time and money trying to prove yourself you're right....

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## 3dprintingpartner

I fear that the 3d printing designs and models rights will unfortunately stay breached and cracked at least until the common average use of this technology will be widespread, as we all know it can take at least few years so most of the burden is indeed upon the designer.

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