# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > CTC 3D Printers >  New CTC printer came broken

## dspdrew

So I finally decided to get a 3D printer. After reading a lot of good reviews, and seeing how well my friends CTC printer worked, I decided to get one. I spent 800 dollars on the newest CTC Bizer III printer with the touch screen from Ebay, and this thing came with the frame all bent up, scratched and dinged up build plate, cracked acrylic front face plate, dirty, clogged up nozzles with one of them actually bent, broken stepper motor, and a bunch of missing screws and accessories. This was clearly an old broken used machine they sent me as new.

I contacted them before I had fully unpacked it and tried to use it, and they refunded me 30 dollars for the missing parts, and cracked acrylic face plate, but after trying to set it up and use it, I found all these other problems. I started a return request on Ebay, but opened it with the wrong reason stated, so I closed it thinking I could reopen it with the correct reason stated. I found out the hard way, that now that I closed the request, I can't reopen one and make them refund me for anything. I've been using Ebay for years, and never knew this.

So now that I'm stuck with this cheap Chinese junk, I guess I'll have to see if I can get this thing working.

Can anyone tell me how much of a problem this will be? The nozzle is actually bent, as you can see in this picture.






The x-axis stepper motor just vibrates and doesn't really move. It will randomly move in either direction sometimes. You can see what it does in this linked video.

http://www.gyg.cc/images/pics/ctcbiz...227_061547.mp4

Any help would be appreciated.

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## banana

You could open a PayPal dispute, and request a refund that way.

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## dspdrew

That's what I plan to try next.

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## dspdrew

A little update to my problem. By isolating each part of the circuit, I found the problem to be the cable. I'm just not sure what exactly is wrong with the cable. If it was shorted, like it seems, I wouldn't think that it would only show this short-like behavior when plugged in to the controller.

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## cjalas

I'm fairly certain that once you open/close a case within eBay, you won't be able to do one within PayPal, unfortunately. You could try contacting the seller directly and tell them the issue, or call eBay and see what can be done about re-opening a case.

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## dspdrew

I already talked to eBay and there was nothing they could do. They were the ones that recommended I try to take care of it through PayPal. If I could get working parts, I really would rather just keep the thing than hassle with returning it. I came here in hopes that someone might have some experience with these printers, and might be able to help me with some of these technical issues. I really just gave the background story to avoid explaining it over and over.

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## EagleSeven

If the bent Guide-tube is the same size and length as the original CTC-Bizer,
and it appears to be, then they too can be purchased on eBay, at low cost.
( There is also an All-thread tube Makerbot design, that fits and works great, 
which is what I now have in our CTC-Bizer )

Do Not get the type with Teflon insert, if possible, they can cause Problems !
(inserts get Loose after extended use) 

Here's link to first one I found, that is same as we use,
  check for length and size :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barrel-M6-26...4AKlcNzDdaUSjw

Note: Makerbot parts will usually fit CTC printers

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## dspdrew

Oh wow that is inexpensive. These Bizer III's are supposed to be basically the same printer, just with a metal frame instead of wood, and the touch screen of course. The tubes mine have are larger inside, and have that PTFE tube insert. If I get that one you linked, would that eliminate the need for that insert? If so, what was the point of using the one with the insert in the first place? Is it for lower friction?

BTW, I finally found and fixed the problem with one of the stepper motors. They ran the wires over the circuit board with the SD card slot, and the sharp metal had shaved the insulation off the orange stepper motor wire, causing it to short out. I got it soldered back together and insulated. I also added slightly longer screws and spacers, moving the board about 5mm further away from the frame. I put the wires inside some plastic conduit and ran that through so this should never be a problem again.

Does anyone know if the sailfish firmware can be installed on this printer? I'm having a hard time finding any info on this Bizer III at all.

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## bigo93

Have you contacted the seller first?

Of course there are different sellers, but I've had pretty good comms with the seller I bought from.
Gave me a partial refund,
Sent replacement PSU
Sent replacement motor cable.

If you are lucky, the seller sent the item insured.
You can ask the seller to make a claim against the courier to get a replacement printer that way.

A lot of chinese sellers want to keep good feedback on ebay, I would have contacted them before starting any case.
So before contacting Paypal, email the guy and either ask them to swap the printer with another, or make a claim against the courier.

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## dspdrew

I've already been through all that. What I am wondering is if there is anyone else out there with this printer, because I haven't found a single person in the entire internet. The only support I'm stuck with now, is these guys who send one message every 24 hours.

I finally got this thing to print, but it sits there for about 40 minutes before it finally starts to print. Is this normal?

Edit: Now when I try to print some files, the system just crashes and resets.

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## EagleSeven

> Oh wow that is inexpensive. These Bizer III's are supposed to be basically the same printer, just with a metal frame instead of wood, and the touch screen of course. The tubes mine have are larger inside, and have that PTFE tube insert. If I get that one you linked, would that eliminate the need for that insert? If so, what was the point of using the one with the insert in the first place? Is it for lower friction?


Yes, idea of Teflon insert was to reduce binding of filament in tube
and to improve seal between tube and nozzle
but I've read that it causes more trouble than it helps.
I know it is really Not needed since we have Never had the type with insert
and ours works Great !

With the All-thread design there's no problem at seal between tube and nozzle
since tube can be screwed in to compensate for short-thread nozzles.

Note: make sure it is made of Stainless-steel
the brass ones are too easily damaged

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## dspdrew

Well this thing printed out one thing, and then I was unable to get it to work again. I let it go when I went to sleep, and noticed it started "printing" after about an hour and a half of sitting there. When I checked on it, there was no filament coming out. I turned it off and opened a PayPal dispute. I'm done with this junk. I can deal with mechanical stuff, but I can't do anything about firmware malfunctions. I'm just going to get the wood one. At least then I'll be able to find some support for it online. They kept trying to tell me the machine was not used, but that's laughable. Most likely they're playing word games. Sure the machine was probably never used as it is, but they built it with old used parts. Their excuse was that they had to put it together in a hurry, and that is the reason for these problems, not because it's used. I don't think that is really helping their case. They also told me they sold a total of 20 of these world-wide. Good luck finding one of those people.

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## EagleSeven

> Well this thing printed out one thing, and then I was unable to get it to work again. I let it go when I went to sleep, and noticed it started "printing" after about an hour and a half of sitting there. When I checked on it, there was no filament coming out. I turned it off and opened a PayPal dispute. I'm done with this junk. I can deal with mechanical stuff, but I can't do anything about firmware malfunctions. I'm just going to get the wood one. At least then I'll be able to find some support for it online. They kept trying to tell me the machine was not used, but that's laughable. Most likely they're playing word games. Sure the machine was probably never used as it is, but they built it with old used parts. Their excuse was that they had to put it together in a hurry, and that is the reason for these problems, not because it's used. I don't think that is really helping their case. They also told me they sold a total of 20 of these world-wide. Good luck finding one of those people.


I found that I must Preheat at a higher temp, about 10C higher,
 than temp the object will be printed at,
or it will take a very long time to start printing, if it ever starts.

Yes, the wood design is Good,
with a few modifications,
as long as you tighten all the screws holding it together every few months,
if it is used often. 
Vibration loosens the assembly screws, 
since they did not use lock-nuts or lock-washers.
And you do Not want to over tighten the screws,
 since it will crush the wood in slots and make it Looser !

Check All assembly screws when you first get printer also,
to make sure they are tight.

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## cjalas

I have a CTC Printer with many mods and things, so I can help you as well. Although you'll probably get more support in the FlashForge forum, I don't really know why they have a separate CTC printer forum, when the CTC is a carbon copy of FlashForge (which is a copy of Makerbot).

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## EagleSeven

> I have a CTC Printer with many mods and things, so I can help you as well. Although you'll probably get more support in the FlashForge forum, I don't really know why they have a separate CTC printer forum, when the CTC is a carbon copy of FlashForge (which is a copy of Makerbot).


Yes, they are Similar, but there are major differences Also !
And there are different models of Each make also, not just one design.

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## cjalas

The basic hardware and software still applies though. I have the wood frame CTC version btw.

As to the OP's issue(s), I definitely recommend installing Sailfish firmware (7.7). Go to thingiverse.com, search for Sailfish, download and follow the instructions to the letter. It can be time consuming but it's worth it. Also I use Simplify3D for my slicer software, literally the best investment you could ever make for 3d printing (it's $150 software).

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## EagleSeven

> The basic hardware and software still applies though. I have the wood frame CTC version btw.
> 
> As to the OP's issue(s), I definitely recommend installing Sailfish firmware (7.7). Go to thingiverse.com, search for Sailfish, download and follow the instructions to the letter. It can be time consuming but it's worth it. Also I use Simplify3D for my slicer software, literally the best investment you could ever make for 3d printing (it's $150 software).


Yes, that firmware and software are very Good, from what I've read,
but are Not really necessary to get Good quality prints.
We still use original firmware and Makerbot-2.4 slicer and get Great prints.
(It does take a while to learn to use the old 2.4 slicer though,
 it's all there but not easy to find everything)

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## dspdrew

The problem is I have a different machine. Sure the hardware is the same, but the system is different. Here is a video of this thing not working. I don't see how you are going to be able to install different firmware on this thing with this touch screen and all these graphics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC1BhMcSXJc

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## bigo93

Reflashing the firmware or upgrading it may help fix any errors that may have occur during the factory install.

But again, you wont know until your try it.

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## cjalas

Saw your video on YouTube; without knowing more about the system, I would hazard a guess that perhaps the wiring is faulty for the extruder heating elements. Looks like the machine is attempting to heat the bed and/or the extruder but it isn't sending an electrical signal to either.﻿

To be honest, the printer itself looks pretty nice. That's a nice 4.3" touch screen! But I'm not familiar with the firmware on it. Either way, What is the firmware version installed?

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## EagleSeven

> The problem is I have a different machine. Sure the hardware is the same, but the system is different. Here is a video of this thing not working. I don't see how you are going to be able to install different firmware on this thing with this touch screen and all these graphics.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC1BhMcSXJc


Yes, the firmware Must be Different to use the Touch-screen,
so you definitely do Not want to change firmware !
Until you know for sure that is Needed.
The firmware needed probably Only works with the Bizer-III ?
Or maybe other Make's firmware that have Touch-screen ?

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## Labbo1979

Im right now putting together a list of problems that might occur when buying from chinese vendors or ebay sellers.. I will publish it on https://3dprinterchat.com . Is it ok if I use your exempel to?

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## dspdrew

Go right ahead. If you want I can give you the entire list of problems that I have put in my PayPal dispute.

Here's a few more pictures.

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## dspdrew

I don't see a subforum for QIDI TECHNOLOGY. Has anyone heard much about these?

http://www.amazon.com/TECHNOLOGY-Ext...dp/B00SB6ZO8S/

I just want to avoid the wooden frame if possible. My friend is so lucky because he got one of the regular CTC printers (bizer I I guess) with a metal frame instead of the wood.

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## rcleav

> I don't see a subforum for QIDI TECHNOLOGY. Has anyone heard much about these?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/TECHNOLOGY-Ext...dp/B00SB6ZO8S/
> 
> I just want to avoid the wooden frame if possible. My friend is so lucky because he got one of the regular CTC printers (bizer I I guess) with a metal frame instead of the wood.


It hasn't earned sub forum status but we have pretty good thread going here. 
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...icator-2-clone

Qidi Techs while a clone is as near as I can till exactly the same as a Flashforge Creator Pro.
There support is top notch from China.
 It can also be bought on Ebay for $660 shipped.

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## cjalas

> It hasn't earned sub forum status but we have pretty good thread going here. 
> http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...icator-2-clone
> 
> Qidi Techs while a clone is as near as I can till exactly the same as a Flashforge Creator Pro.
> The there support is top notch and from China.
>  It can also be bought on Ebay for $660 shipped.


I'm seriously considering the QiDi. If I had known of them before I got my CTC, I would definitely have gone for the QiDi instead.

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## bigo93

Damn, you can actually buy the acrylic enclosure for a qidi on ebay for just £26!

Wish they sold one for the CTC for the same price!

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## rcleav

I also have a CTC and bought an enclosure kit from these guys. http://www.criticalmods.com/
It's cost more then Qidi but it's a lot better built.
Liked it so much I'm buying just the hood for my Qidi.
I will have to feed the filament from the top which is what I'm doing with the CTC.

IMAG0488.jpg

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## EagleSeven

> I also have a CTC and bought an enclosure kit from these guys. http://www.criticalmods.com/
> It's cost more then Qidi but it's a lot better built.
> Liked it so much I'm buying just the hood for my Qidi.
> I will have to feed the filament from the top which is what I'm doing with the CTC.


Enclosures can cause the X & Y Stepper-motors to Over-heat and Fail,
I recommend not using the enclosure and adding a Fan at motors.

There really needs to be good air-flow thru the printer,
since other components can get too hot also.

Note: Fan at motors is probably needed Only if Room-temp is High,
during Summer, in locations where temp gets high.
Just touching the motors will let you know if they are Too Hot or not.
Ours was getting Too hot to touch before adding the Fan and that was without an enclosure.

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## rcleav

Fortunately or not mine is in the basement with temps between 60F and 68F.
It doesn't stick very well at those temps.
As you can see I do monitor the enclosure temp.

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## dspdrew

Still dealing with this nightmare. After being told they would accept my return, they declined my return request within PayPal, and proceeded to tell me to send it to this incoherent address (341 S Palm Ave, Alhambra, CA, VINTRICK INC Yoyo hee, Guangdong Province 91803-1421 , United States China), and said once  they receive it, they will refund my money. Needless to say, PayPal closed the dispute and opened a claim for me, to make sure I was protected under PayPal. Clearly they were trying to keep this outside of PayPal to avoid the PayPal buyer protection.

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## bigo93

Oh what's the name of the seller you used? Better to know so we dont buy from them again.

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## 3dex ltd

I hope they sort it out for you soon. Never nice to have a broken product and be a victim of poor customer support

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## dspdrew

The seller is yanghaifeng2010.

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## dspdrew

I finally got my money back. I just ordered one of those QIDI Technology printers.

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## cjalas

> I finally got my money back. I just ordered one of those QIDI Technology printers.


Congrats! We look forward to hearing more about your experience with the QiDi!  :Wink:

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## bigo93

> I finally got my money back. I just ordered one of those QIDI Technology printers.


Did you have to post the current one back? If not well done on some spare parts :P

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## dspdrew

That's exactly what  ended up happening. They gave PayPal a completely screwed up address (looked like a mixture of an address in Alhambra, CA, and an address somewhere in China), then because of their poor communication, PayPal finally gave up on trying to get them to respond with a coherent address, and finally just told me not to ship it. They gave me my money back, and now l have this thing all packed up just sitting here.

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## dspdrew

I got my QIDI TECHNOLOGY printer. Like the CTC, it showed up in just three days from China.

This thing is a world of a difference. Everything looks brand new (as it should). Lots of spare parts, including tons of screws, two different cables, and a stepper motor driver.

The electronics are actually enclosed, especially the power supply, unlike that CTC Bizer III, where you could literally grab a hold of the 120 VAC bare wires when picking it up if you aren't aware of it.

 This one came with two nice spool holders, as opposed to the single horribly 3D printed one I got with the CTC Bizer III. It came with a full-sized spool of PLA and a full-sized spool of ABS. The CTC Bizer III had one tiny spool of PLA.

This also comes with an SDcard to USB adapter, tools and a little toolbox, and an acrylic cover kit. Also, the metal frame on this is a lot heavier and sturdier than the CTC Bizer III. It even has handles you can install to pick it up.

All this, and it's $150 cheaper. I already have this thing printing nicely. No problems with the heating, sensors, or the firmware. It actually comes with Sailfish 7.8 already installed. It also has a nice white LED light strip inside it that lights it up.

So far my only complaints would be their super thin, razor sharp steel decal on the front; it sliced my thumb when I brushed it across it. Also the built plate is very wobbly and flimsy, but there are modifications for this.

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## EagleSeven

> I got my QIDI TECHNOLOGY printer. 
> All this, and it's $150 cheaper.


??? The QIDI printers I have seen are about $800.  !
The original CTC-Bizer is Only $400. now, which is a Good printer with a few modification added.
So, I suppose it depends on if you have the extra $400. or had rather do the Mods yourself ?

All QIDI printers I've seen have full enclosures, which is Not good,
since enclosures can cause motors to overheat and fail.

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## dspdrew

If you bid on them, or make an offer for $650 or $400 + $150 shipping  (depending on which listing), you will get it for that price. I don't  know of any mods to make the frame steel, other than buying a steel  frame. They all come with acrylic covers, but you don't need to put them  on unless the material you're printing with requires it.

My friend has a CTC Bizer I with the metal frame, and his whole package was way better. Either they have changed a lot about their packages, and what's included, or this is just what you get with the Bizer III. All I know, is you don't want what I got for $800... trust me.

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## EagleSeven

> If you bid on them, or make an offer for $650 or $400 + $150 shipping  (depending on which listing), you will get it for that price. I don't  know of any mods to make the frame steel, other than buying a steel  frame. They all come with acrylic covers, but you don't need to put them  on unless the material you're printing with requires it.
> 
> My friend has a CTC Bizer I with the metal frame, and his whole package was way better. Either they have changed a lot about their packages, and what's included, or this is just what you get with the Bizer III. All I know, is you don't want what I got for $800... trust me.


That Does sound like a Good deal !

To me having a metal-frame is Not that necessary !
Metal frame is Very Good but wood frame model has a few advantages over metal also.
(such as easier to modify)
The only real problem I've had with wood is that assemble-screws vibrate loose,
after several months of use, but it's not a big problem to tighten them again.
(I've tightened them 3 times during the 16 months we've had the printer)

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## dspdrew

> That Does sound like a Good deal !
> 
> To me having a metal-frame is Not that necessary !
> Metal frame is Very Good but wood frame model has a few advantages over metal also.
> (such as easier to modify)
> The only real problem I've had with wood is that assemble-screws vibrate loose,
> after several months of use, but it's not a big problem to tighten them again.


Just curious, why do you say the wood frame is easier to mod?

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## Mjolinor

> All QIDI printers I've seen have full enclosures, which is Not good,
> since enclosures can cause motors to overheat and fail.


If your motors overheat and fail in an enclosed printer then you should buy better motors. Stepper motors are normally rated at way over the maximum temperature that will be seen in an enclosed 3D printer even if you over drive them or use microstepping.  My Wanhao has been enclosed since a few weeks after I got it so that I can print ABS with no problems. It has been that way well over a year and has the cheapest crappiest steppers you have ever seen and they have not failed. I have never known a stepper motor fail due to heat and I have been designing machines that use them for over 20 years.

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## EagleSeven

> Just curious, why do you say the wood frame is easier to mod?


Wood is much easier to drill, cut and fill , than metal.
(for any addition, change or repair)

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## EagleSeven

> If your motors overheat and fail in an enclosed printer then you should buy better motors. Stepper motors are normally rated at way over the maximum temperature that will be seen in an enclosed 3D printer even if you over drive them or use microstepping.  My Wanhao has been enclosed since a few weeks after I got it so that I can print ABS with no problems. It has been that way well over a year and has the cheapest crappiest steppers you have ever seen and they have not failed. I have never known a stepper motor fail due to heat and I have been designing machines that use them for over 20 years.


Mine have never failed because I don't use enclosure and have a fan at X & Y motors to prevent overheating.
If they get too hot to touch, then they are Too Hot !
(Motor failure info, from over-heat in enclosure, is from videos I've seen on internet)

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## Mjolinor

> If they get too hot to touch, then they are Too Hot !


That is an incorrect statement. Go read some specification data. Guessing technical information is not fact.

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## dspdrew

> Wood is much easier to drill, cut and fill , than metal.
> (for any addition, change or repair)


Oh okay, that's not a problem for me.

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## EagleSeven

> That is an incorrect statement. Go read some specification data. Guessing technical information is not fact.


I won't be replying to your Rude statements anymore !

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## EagleSeven

> Oh okay, that's not a problem for me.


Good Luck, with your new printer ! 
Have Fun !

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## Mjolinor

> I won't be replying to your Rude statements anymore !


My statement is not rude. My statement is fact. You should not post things as facts that are not true because people come here for information and when that information is incorrect it can create a lot of problems for people. Normally I do not reply to your incorrect posts if they will not have a potential direct effect on the way people act after they interpret the information. In this case I chose to reply as your incorrect post will cause people to worry that their motors are too hot and therefore they have something wrong when the truth of the matter is that there is nothing wrong.

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## curious aardvark

I'd further add that a metal framed printer is better than a wood framed one for several reasons (I have both).

The metal frame reduces vibration and thus gives cleaner better quality prints and potentially higher resolution prints.
Metal frames do not have lots of little bolts that need regular tightening - and also are much much quieter when printing. I often look across at the metal framed machine when printing to check it's still working. 

Modding the wood case is easier. But in all other aspects a metal framed machine is better. 

And given the sheer number of replicator pro machines in the world - all with fully enclosed beds and motors - there is absolutely no evidence that they over heat and break.

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## rcleav

> I'd further add that a metal framed printer is better than a wood framed one for several reasons (I have both).
> 
> The metal frame reduces vibration and thus gives cleaner better quality prints and potentially higher resolution prints.
> Metal frames do not have lots of little bolts that need regular tightening - and also are much much quieter when printing. I often look across at the metal framed machine when printing to check it's still working. 
> 
> Modding the wood case is easier. But in all other aspects a metal framed machine is better. 
> 
> And given the sheer number of replicator pro machines in the world - all with fully enclosed beds and motors - there is absolutely no evidence that they over heat and break.


Well said couldn't agree more.

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## EagleSeven

> I'd further add that a metal framed printer is better than a wood framed one for several reasons (I have both).


Yes, as I said, the metal-frame type is very-good
 but to some people the difference is Not worth the Extra Cost of metal.
Since plywood type is also Very good !
(there's no way a metal frame will give better Quality prints, just because it's metal ! )
How can you get Better than 'Perfect' ?  :Cool: 

As I said, the motor failure problem, with enclosure, was reported in 2 website videos.
(with those video reports there Must be Many More, that were not videoed,
since many will not be willing to Admit that they made a mistake by adding the 'Cool looking' enclosure)
They also said adding a fan or two to enclosure really helps, if you think you Must keep it,
to keep out Pets and small children.  :Wink:

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## Geoff

> Yes, as I said, the metal-frame type is very-good
>  but to some people the difference is Not worth the Extra Cost of metal.
> Since plywood type is also Very good !
> (there's no way a metal frame will give better Quality prints, just because it's metal ! )
> How can you get Better than 'Perfect' ? 
> 
> As I said, the motor failure problem, with enclosure, was reported in 2 website videos.
> (with those video reports there Must be Many More, that were not videoed,
> since many will not be willing to Admit that they made a mistake by adding the 'Cool looking' enclosure)
> ...



Hi Eagleseven, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the CTC printer (as you know I recently bought one, albeit a broken mess that needed a tonne of repairing...)  but you have to be fair and please listen to what the guys are saying, no one is being rude - but Mjolinor is pretty spot on in his post, especially 


> because people come here for information and when that information is incorrect it can create a lot of problems for people.


This is when I will usually chime in, sometimes a bad habit, sometimes a blessing for people who were about to be steered down the wrong path.  

In this case, I have to agree with Mjolinor and Curious Aardvark on both counts. 

Stepper motors get hot. That's what they do. I have 5 printers running 24/7.. sometimes 6 or 7.  Some of those are FULLY ENCLOSED without any heating, such at the fisher and kossel - and yes, they get so hot you can't put your fingers on them for more than a second or two.

Do you know how many steppers i've burnt out from overheating in 4+ years ? none yet.. and I' have over 30 stepper motors in the one room going at any given time - do you know how many of them have cooling? only 4 - the ones on the CTC and flashforge that are directly in front with a heatsink - that's it. All the other axis motors are not cooled in any way - yes they get bloody hot! but that's what motors do. Should you put cooling on them? sure - it won't hurt, but like I said they are designed to run at very high temperatures consistently - that's why they are used for 3D printers and not the other type of stepper motors you use (and as a copier technician, trust me I see friggin hundreds of different stepper motors in a day.. everyday. I have machines that run at 400c and use Nema17's. No joke.

As for the metal case - really, Curious is right and you can't argue. Yes, you are right also - they are stupidly expensive for what is just a metal case, but the lack of vibrations, the lack of screws and nuts always constantly coming loose - this makes for a much better print quality.

And - I have to say, the CTC at 0.2mm and 0.3mm is one of the worst printers in the Z axis I've ever seen. Massive banding lines like a davinci $300 printer. God knows what I'm going to do to fix that. If you print at 0.1.. sure.. its barely OK.. but any higher and it's as useless to me as a printrbot with Y-axis sag.

The CTC wobbles like crazy, uses small 8mm rods in 10mm holes.. so the bed wobbles during print left to right...

All these issues if done in a metal frame with proper secure ties, it would be a good printer - but you can't argue that a metal case is "bad" in anyway for stepper motors _and you can't say that it does not affect print quality!!! 

_The more rigid the case and the less active feedback the print head gets, the better the print is - this is why I prefer the print quality on my Delta machines as there is virtually ZERO kickback from any movements.

Also, just on the note about children being injured - any responsible parent would not let a young child alone near a 3D printer. Regardless of enclosure or not.  Having small hands get trapped in Axis rods as they are moving... I can imagine some broken bones, heck I've even almost caught my hand under the heatbed lowering while I was clearing out rubbish strings... the stepper didn't stop.. and I had a bruise to prove it.

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## EagleSeven

I can only hope that Rude behavior and speech
 are Not becoming normal behavior and speech, where you are !
Very Sad for the future of our world, if it is !
Flatly saying someone is Wrong, just because they don't completely agree with you, is considered Rude here.

My statements were an attempt to present 'Another side of the Story'.
That I had discovered while watching videos about 3D-printers.

Sorry, if their opinions, about their motor overheat failures, do not agree with your opinion,
but I was trying to be helpful by presenting information found on the subject of enclosures, altho looking 'Cool',
can cause Heat problems.

BTW: I think that's what this website is for.
To learn and to present data and Info that may be helpful to others.
(it should Not be used to try to prove to the world How Smart you Are, 
or how Wrong others are)

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## Mjolinor

> I can only hope that Rude behavior and speech
>  are Not becoming normal behavior and speech, where you are !
> Very Sad for the future of our world, if it is !
> Flatly saying someone is Wrong, just because they don't completely agree with you, is considered Rude here.


In technical circles truth is paramount always, considerations for the way people may feel about that are never even considered when stating things to be fact and that is absolutely the way it should always be. If you want polite with no consideration for factual content then I suggest a flower arranging forum or perhaps some obscure religious sect.

FYI, The difference between rude and factual:

Had I wanted to be rude I would have written something along the lines of: "OMG you are such a dork, why do you think that this BS you are spouting is correct, there is less fiction in Lord of the Rings" for example. I didn't do that, what I did was state a fact, for example: "your statement is incorrect", I hope that makes it easier for you to decide what is and isn't factual and what is and isn't rude or personal both in your posts, other people's replies and in your replies.

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## Geoff

> I can only hope that Rude behavior and speech
>  are Not becoming normal behavior and speech, where you are !
> Very Sad for the future of our world, if it is !
> Flatly saying someone is Wrong, just because they don't completely agree with you, is considered Rude here.
> 
> No, we're not flatly saying you are wrong, we are disagreeing with you  - this is what's called debate, and as long as everyone is being civil (and they are) I see no rudeness, just a difference of opinions.
> 
> My statements were an attempt to present 'Another side of the Story'.
> That I had discovered while watching videos about 3D-printers.
> ...


............

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## EagleSeven

> ............


LOL  :Wink:  I hope you are 'Having Fun' Disecting and Analysing Everything I Say !  :Cool:

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## Geoff

> LOL  I hope you are 'Having Fun' Disecting and Analysing Everything I Say !


No, I am trying to respond to you in as calm and comprehensive way as I can. It is clear we have a slight language barrier here and I feel that some of what we are saying is not really translating as well as we had hoped.

Also be aware, If I did not have so many problems with my CTC printer, I would have not even been in this part of the forum to begin with. If I had a window large enough, it would be thrown out of it. I am glad I only paid $500! I mean, only half of it works so I guess it was fair.

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## Mjolinor

> Also be aware, If I did not have so many problems with my CTC printer, I would have not even been in this part of the forum to begin with. If I had a window large enough, it would be thrown out of it. I am glad I only paid $500! I mean, only half of it works so I guess it was fair.


Please PM GPS coords of said window.

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## Geoff

> Please PM GPS coords of said window.


I can't give you the coords to the Batcave, Alfred would do his nut.

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## EagleSeven

*** Love Your CTC ***

It needs 'Tender Loving Care' !  :Cool:

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## bigo93

I think we can all say that in the end this is a nice cheap printer for a beginner.

For someone to get into 3D printing without having to spend over £1000 on a semi-decent quality printer.

But again it's great for a beginner who doesnt mind getting their hands dirty.


For a more seasoned 3D printer user, this could be a printer to test stuff on and you wont mind it breaking.

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## Geoff

> *** Love Your CTC ***
> 
> It needs 'Tender Loving Care' !


hahah  that's gold...

By TLC, I'm guessing you mean constant maintenance  :Embarrassment: 

They really should put teflon in the pipes, the constant nozzle blockages on mine are a real pain in the butt. The flashforge has teflon lined pipes, they are not expensive -- not sure why they would leave them out.

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## EagleSeven

> They really should put teflon in the pipes, the constant nozzle blockages on mine are a real pain in the butt. The flashforge has teflon lined pipes, they are not expensive -- not sure why they would leave them out.


Sorry, I'm not going to be drawn into the 'Insert' debate again, 
stated my opinion of those several times already .
(info gathered from online videos, since we have never used or needed guide-tubes with inserts)

We did convert to the all-thread type guide-tubes though,
they make different nozzle-thread lengths easy to adjust for
and set-screws hold them in place better:

guide-tube.jpg

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## Geoff

> Sorry, I'm not going to be drawn into the 'Insert' debate again, 
> stated my opinion of those several times already .
> (info gathered from online videos, since we have never used or needed guide-tubes with inserts)
> 
> We did convert to the all-thread type guide-tubes though,
> they make different nozzle-thread lengths easy to adjust for
> and set-screws hold them in place better:
> 
> guide-tube.jpg


Ok, I am sorry but I am taking my gloves off.

There is no debate, the pipes in the CTC machine I have right now, which was purchased only a few weeks ago, are rubbish.

I am not arguing if they are rubbish or not, I am saying without a doubt, in black and white, as Vader as my witness, they are rubbish.

Again with your "info gathered on online videos" Well, I don't know what videos you are watching, but the ones I watch say the same thing I am. Teflon guides in the pipes stop the most annoying of problems with a 3D printer, and that's constant blocking of pipes. 

I am not saying this because I saw it in a video.

I am saying this because in the past 3 weeks, *my CTC has blocked it's nozzles HUNDREDS of times.* You cannot leave filament in the printer after a print - you have to unload it otherwise it expands and gets blocked in those cheap pipes. The teflon inserts stop this and stop the expansion that makes the bulge that cannot be unloaded from the machine.

This means you need to remove the extruder fan, the motor, and then unplug the little nugget that is stuck in there EVERY TIME you want to change filament - the only time it's ok is if you change right after a print when it's not too fat. This is annoying as hell.

My other 6 printers that are currently running ALL have teflon inserts.. They do not block. I leave filament in there for weeks - they do not block. To me, this is just another victory for Flashforge - I am so happy I bought mine all those years ago, because if I had bought this clone of a clone, then I would have torn my hair out in frustration - no printer I've built or bought has ever been so unreliable. 

Let me say that again, no printer I have built or bought has been so unreliable. Let's also remember what this thread is titled " New-CTC-printer-came-broken" Which as we can now read in alot of posts, is not uncommon.

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## Mjolinor

I took my non PTFE tubes out and replaced them with PTFE ones after I used the printer for about 2 months. The biggest problem was that when you switched on the filament would not feed no matter what you did. It had either unloaded itself as it cooled down or it was blocked solid.

I think these problems only apply to ABS though, not PLA, PLA does seem to be a lot better behaved though I do prefer the parts ABS makes, they are a lot more forgiving in use and a lot easier to machine after they are made.

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## Geoff

> I took my non PTFE tubes out and replaced them with PTFE ones after I used the printer for about 2 months. The biggest problem was that when you switched on the filament would not feed no matter what you did. It had either unloaded itself as it cooled down or it was blocked solid.
> 
> I think these problems only apply to ABS though, not PLA, PLA does seem to be a lot better behaved though I do prefer the parts ABS makes, they are a lot more forgiving in use and a lot easier to machine after they are made.


So far the only thing the CTC prints without a hitch is wood ironically!

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