# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  Makerfarm Prusa 10" i3v Available!

## 1stage

Hey Everyone,

Colin has posted the product page for his new 10" Prusa i3v...

http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/w...extrusion.html

All specs seems to be the same, except for the build envelope is now 250mm x 250mm x 250mm. The larger heated bed requires a relay, which is included, but not sure if an additional ATX power supply is needed JUST for the higher bed amperage.

Colin says there's no details yet on upgrades, but they are in the works.

EDIT - The new bed DOESN'T require a relay. My bad.

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## 1stage

Also note that in the Makerfarm Products > Electronics section, in addition to the new 10" x 10" heated bed, there's also a 12" x 12" heated bed, making a Prusa 12" i3v a possibility as well.


Personally, I have a rather immediate need for a larger build envelope, so I will likely upgrade my current i3v to an 8" x 12" heat bed in the next two weeks. It should not require modification of the Prusa 8" frame, but will require the following:
- Longer V-track rails on the Y/Bed, available here (http://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-20-x-20mm/)
- New heated bed, available here (http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/p...-heat-bed.html)
    - Add-on integrated thermistor
    - Add-on bed relay
- Longer GT2 Y-belt, about 3' or 100 cm, available here (http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/h...-gt2-belt.html) or here (http://openbuildspartstore.com/gt2-2mm-timing-belt/)
- New laser cut bed
    - Reuse existing trolley & idler parts
    - New glass
    - New cork under-lay
- Extension wires, available here (http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/m...cable-137.html) and here (http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/m...end-cable.html), plus use spare end-stop extension from original Makerfarm kit.
- Firmware/Config file updates to Mendel
- Config file updates to Slic3r

...and yes, I'll take the opportunity to properly align the bed and Y idlers so that the Y belt rubbing is fixed.

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## RaySuave

This model may become my first 3D Printer...

Are there any disadvantages for a bigger bed size other than larger footprint and higher power consumption?

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## 1stage

Not particularly, and the power consumption difference between the 8" and 10" is pretty negligible, to be honest. The worst case is that there's more room to screw up and waste plastic!  :Smile: 

 Colin hasn't posted a build guide specifically for the 10" version (he links to the 8" guide, which is essentially the same, just smaller frame), so it's likely the same wiring-wise as well. The kit does NOT include a bed relay, so that suggest power for bed wiring is the same (needs an ATX power supply with TWO 2x2 square 12v leads outputting at least 11A each).

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## RaySuave

Thanks for the reply...

I am also looking into what I need (extra cost and materials) to be able to build this type of printer using the separately sold 12" X 12" bed because I plan on using this to primarily print frame parts for RC vehicles/crafts where print length capability is important, but height is not that important.

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## 1stage

Well, the 10" frame probably won't accommodate the 12x12 bed, just as the 8" frame which I have won't accommodate the 10x10 bed... not enough width between the two Z axis pillars.

You might consider what I'm going to do, mentioned above: swap out JUST the Y axis pieces to accommodate the 8x12 bed. No wooden frame modifications are required. I don't usually need anything wider than 8" on at least a single axis, so extending the Y only out by about 4" is perfect for my needs.

If you're considering building a LARGER one, like a 12x12 (or bigger), perhaps go for the 8" now to get used to the process, then upgrade it yourself with parts from Open Build Parts Store (http://openbuildspartstore.com/). Most of the components will be the same (steppers, electronics, etc.) but you can bust out of the 8" confines by adding your own frames out of the V track aluminum.

There's also other bed-size options, like this 24x24 beast (http://store.quintessentialuniversal...id_product=113), but it will require a DC-to-AC110V relay rather than the usual DC-DC relays that most use.

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## 1stage

Here's a detailed parts list (with links and costs) for the Makerfarm Prusa 8" to 8x12 upgrade I'm planning:

From Makerfarm.com:
8.4" x 12.6" Heat Bed, ADD THERMISTOR, ADD BED RELAY - *US$55.50
*(http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/p...-heat-bed.html)Replacement Y belt, GT2, 3' - *US$7.50*
(http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/h...-gt2-belt.html)High Temp Pre-Wired Thermistor Extension Cable - *US$5.95*
(http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/m...cable-137.html)
SUBTOTAL - US$68.95TAX - $0 (Unless you're in UT)SHIPPING ~ US$15.00*MAKERFARM GRAND TOTAL ~US$84.00*

From Openbuildpartstore.com:
Extruded Aluminum replacement Y rails, V-Slot 20 x 20mm, 1000mm - *US$10.00*
(http://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-20-x-20mm/)
SUBTOTAL - US$10.00TAX - $0 (Unless your in whatever state they're in)SHIPPING ~US$11.00*OPEN BUILD PARTS STORE GRAND TOTAL ~US$21.00*

From Amazon.com:
12v 30A DC Power Supply - *US$25.66*
(http://amzn.com/B00ENFBXQS)12"x12" Cork Tiles (4) for Heat Bed Underlay Replacement - *US$12.99*
(http://amzn.com/B002M78G0K)
SUBTOTAL - US$38.65TAX - US$3.58SHIPPING ~US$0 (Both are Amazon Prime eligible)*AMAZON GRAND TOTAL ~US$42.23*

Currently un-sourced parts:
New laser-cut Y bed trolley platform ~US$15.00
1/4" hardwood plywood, 4' x 8' sheet - US$30 / 24 @ 12" x 16" raw panels = US$1.25Laser cutting ~ US$13.00New 8" x 12" piece of 1/8" tempered glass, ground edges ~ US$18.00
SUBTOTAL - US$33.00TAX - US$3.05SHIPPING - US$0 (will likely source locally)*UNSOURCED GRAND TOTAL ~US$36.00

*
*PROJECT COST ESTIMATE, ~US$184.00*

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## DrLuigi

Nice for only 184 dollars,

Still find my Makerfarm prusa i3 great, But i think i wouldnt go with wood again tho,

It creates so much vibirations and noise, it isnt that fast either.
Its a great printer for a starter and the price don't get me wrong, but i might break it off one day and use something like the Vrails and create something like a Ultimaker box printer/mendelmax etc.
Something a bit more stabile,

Or a Delta, but i wouldnt dare to opensource DIY that one, i think i would screw up that one haha :P

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## RaySuave

> Well, the 10" frame probably won't accommodate the 12x12 bed, just as the 8" frame which I have won't accommodate the 10x10 bed... not enough width between the two Z axis pillars.
> 
> You might consider what I'm going to do, mentioned above: swap out JUST the Y axis pieces to accommodate the 8x12 bed. No wooden frame modifications are required. I don't usually need anything wider than 8" on at least a single axis, so extending the Y only out by about 4" is perfect for my needs.
> 
> If you're considering building a LARGER one, like a 12x12 (or bigger), perhaps go for the 8" now to get used to the process, then upgrade it yourself with parts from Open Build Parts Store (http://openbuildspartstore.com/). Most of the components will be the same (steppers, electronics, etc.) but you can bust out of the 8" confines by adding your own frames out of the V track aluminum.
> 
> There's also other bed-size options, like this 24x24 beast (http://store.quintessentialuniversal...id_product=113), but it will require a DC-to-AC110V relay rather than the usual DC-DC relays that most use.


Thanks for all the info the links.  I went ahead and bought the MakerFarm Prusa 10" i3v Kit.  After looking at various available printers/prices for several days to find the best deal in regards to: build envelope, cost, and upgrade ability, this looks like the best option for me at the moment.  I would rather have the 12X12 or 12X8 bed but since this is my first printer and there are no kits with these parameters, I'm not trying to set myself up for extra frustration and wasting money right from the start.  I plan on increasing the bed size once I get the stock kit up and running for a while, I may not even need to increase the bed size since as of now, everything I plan on printing (RC air craft frame pieces) will fit this bed size with a little extra room to spare.  Another reason I bought this kit was because MakerFarm customer service was very prompt in replying to several of my emails....this is certainly a sign of good future customer service when urgently needed.

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## gmay3

Woo hoo! Congrats on your purchase RaySuave! You're gonna have a blast putting the kit together and I definitely think you made a great choice based on other kits/printers out there.

I recently build a Makerfarm Prusa i3v 8" and one thing I would definitely recommend is to go ahead and get the flexible metal 5mm to 5mm z threaded rod couplers right off the bat because getting the rods into the plastic clear tubing killed my hands and when all was said and done, I had bent the rods trying to get them in there. I'm probably going to end up buying a new set of rods sometime in the future and I would hate to see you have to do the same.

Maker farm sells em here:

http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/5...z-coupler.html

Amazon sells em (this is the exact one I used) here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cheers,
gmay3

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## printbus

+1 on the flexible shaft couplers, but OME will be pointing out that there are better ones out there that have separate set screws that grab the shafts, or four screws total. Those couplers will hold the threaded rod better - otherwise you'll need to shim the threaded rod with something like foil or metal tape since the threaded rod is a bit less than 5mm diameter.  

Also, take a look at the thread titled "Y bed rubbing solutions".  One of the not-so-great aspects of the i3v is that the Y-belt rides directly on bearings at the front idler, with nothing to prevent the belt from catching on the wood sides of the idler bracket.  I assume the 10-inch i3v is of the same design, and the additional Y-bed travel makes this more of a concern on the 10-inch.  The rubbing solutions thread may have some ideas for you to consider in your build.

EDIT: And if that Y-idler is still just mounted to a flat plate, I'd seriously consider adding some sort of reinforcement to minimize the plate flexing, since any flex will change the tension in the Y-belt. The wider bed will be more prone to this flex than on the 8-inch. This reinforcement could be a metal bracket or could be something simple like a glued-on wood scrap left from the sheets the laser cut parts come in.

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## RaySuave

Appreciate the tips, I ordered the z flexible shaft couplings with the four set screws.  The kit is scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday...

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## usarmyaircav

Hi all!  New member to this forum, however I am on the reprap forum also.  I ordered the 10" I3V last night.  So stoked!!!!  I am going to order an E3dv6 tonight.  Need to order a power supply.  I have been looking at the LED ones, but am concerned about the noise.  This is going to be in an inside room, so will need to dampen as much noise as possible.  Any recomendations?

Todd

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## usarmyaircav

> Appreciate the tips, I ordered the z flexible shaft couplings with the four set screws.  The kit is scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday...


Just ordered my kit last night.  I need 2 of the couplers correct?

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## MiniMadRyan

I've left the stock flexible tubing for my z-couplers for the time being. I used them on my printrbot and never had much issue, so didn't feel a huge need to change it up here. 

Some notes on my assembly thus far (just have to finish the wiring)

- It is indeed a larger version of the 8, the y axis rails actually stick out a bit past the end carriage, I made a modification there, and added a printed piece that allows me to use a longish screw to contact the z end-stop, that makes it easier to adjust the z height instead of messing around with the switch itself. 
- The relay is included, and the video's and guide make it very easy to understand how to wire it all up, nothing hard to do. 
- I used the printed belt guides mentioned earlier, they really work well and seem to have no issues.
- Your heat bed may have some significant warp to it, and colin confirmed none of them are entirely flat, but it will fit and work fine when its attached to a good piece of glass. 
- I had to do some light sanding and filing on the printed extruder to get things to match up properly, most prominently was the area where the bearing for the hobbled bolt is, needed to sand this to get the hobbled bolt to line up with the extruder correctly
- Lastly, I noticed on some pieces, namely on the hot end carriage, that the pieces were not laser cut perfectly square. This meant some of the edges had a bit of a chamfer to them. it still assembled fine as long as I was careful, and should not pose an issue, but it was something I hadn't noticed in other kits. 

Overall, I am very very pleased with this kit. For the price, you can't beat the print size and feature. The unit really does feel very solid, and coming from printrbots, it feels very very rigid. The kit does not have everything, namely the PSU, glass (or binder clips for holding the glass) Depending on the PSU, you may need to source some wire to connect it from the PSU to the RAMPS, but otherwise, I am very very pleased with it. There's plenty of extras included and Colin's videos and documentation really are top notch! Can't wait to get it fired up and running!


Ryan

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## MiniMadRyan

Here's the printed piece I'm using for my z end-stop. I originally intended for it to sit on top of the rail (hence the keyway) but forgot about it interfering with the wheels. If anyone wants the STL, let me know!

10580199_10152646907002177_2750290722954750823_n.jpg

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## gmay3

Hi usarmyaircav and welcome to the forum! I think you're really going to like your i3v!

Yes you will need 2 couplers.

I'm not sure what you mean about an LCD power supply, or if you are referring to electrical noise or audible noise.

As far as power supplies go, using the ATX power supply Colin from Makerfarm is working well for me so far. If I had to do it again, I might choose a power supply that has screw terminals for the power connections, because I think this would be easier than having to cut wires, solder, and properly insulate connections you'd need to make from the ATX power supply. I don't have a specific model in mind but you'll find that other repraps use general purpose, thin silver metallic power supplies. They might be worth a look. Feel free to run the specs by Colin if you want to double check they will be ok for the 10" i3v.

And for noise isolation, please see clough42's fantastic mods in this thread: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...our-MODS/page2

I've recently printed and assembled clough42's Sorbothane Vibration Isolation Feet as well as the LCD Ramps Spacer with great sound reducing results!

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## usarmyaircav

> Hi usarmyaircav and welcome to the forum! I think you're really going to like your i3v!
> 
> Yes you will need 2 couplers.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean about an LCD power supply, or if you are referring to electrical noise or audible noise.
> 
> As far as power supplies go, using the ATX power supply Colin from Makerfarm is working well for me so far. If I had to do it again, I might choose a power supply that has screw terminals for the power connections, because I think this would be easier than having to cut wires, solder, and properly insulate connections you'd need to make from the ATX power supply. I don't have a specific model in mind but you'll find that other repraps use general purpose, thin silver metallic power supplies. They might be worth a look. Feel free to run the specs by Colin if you want to double check they will be ok for the 10" i3v.
> 
> And for noise isolation, please see clough42's fantastic mods in this thread: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...our-MODS/page2
> ...



I will look at that mod.  I meant LED power supply which I think I will get.

My current question/problem is that I ordered it without a hotend as I am ordering an E3dv6, now I realize the E3d doesn't come with the metal plate that would hold the hot end.  Colin says that theirs is a 4.5mm thick, but the E3d info  at http://files.e3d-online.com/v6/Drawings/V6-175-SINK.pdf looks like the mount gap is 6mm.  Thoughts?

Edit - anyone tell me if this will work?  - http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:315045

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## usarmyaircav

Per the maker of that thingi, it should work as long as the cariage hasn't changed since his I3 , and Colin says that it hasn't so I guess I will try to find someone to print one of these and give it a shot.  Otherwise I will be looking for a shop to cut me one.  Mine is supposed to ship on 8/27!

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## Tachout

Is this the one you are looking for?

http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/h...ing-plate.html

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## usarmyaircav

> Is this the one you are looking for?
> 
> http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/h...ing-plate.html


I think the birchwood one would work.  the metal one is 4.5mm, and according to the docs at the E3D site, the mount area is 6mm.  I guess it doesn't make much difference to use a printed one or a wood one, since if the printed one doesn't melt, then the wood one should have no problem either.

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## RaySuave

> Here's the printed piece I'm using for my z end-stop. I originally intended for it to sit on top of the rail (hence the keyway) but forgot about it interfering with the wheels. If anyone wants the STL, let me know!
> 
> Attachment 2358


Please share that STL file.  I printed this popular Z-endstop mod (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:336665) but the X-Carriage rails on the 10" i3v extend much further past the right vertical rail than the 8" i3v, so this mod wasn't compatible.

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## printbus

> ...if the printed one doesn't melt....


The e3D requires a fan to keep the heat from creeping up into the extruder base.  So, whether the printed block melts/softens or not would depend on how hot you're running the nozzle and your selection of the cooling fan and shroud.

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## usarmyaircav

> The e3D requires a fan to keep the heat from creeping up into the extruder base.  So, whether the printed block melts/softens or not would depend on how hot you're running the nozzle and your selection of the cooling fan and shroud.


I will be doing ABS.  So two questions then are 
1. Should I use a different fan than the one that comes with the hotend?
2:  Should I have a shroud printed before starting to print?
     2A: Can I still use the same extruder that comes with the kit or will I need a different one?

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## printbus

> I will be doing ABS.  So two questions then are 
> 1. Should I use a different fan than the one that comes with the hotend?
> 2:  Should I have a shroud printed before starting to print?
>      2A: Can I still use the same extruder that comes with the kit or will I need a different one?


Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to your questions. I just wanted to make sure you knew what you're getting into.

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## Drone

I've narrowed my choice of printer to the 10" i3v due to generous build area, the abundant amount of help available on forums, youtube, the manufacturer, etc., reviews by people that use this printer, and of course the attractive price. Being my first printer all of these things are very important to me being able to achieve good printing results. I was looking at a couple of others in the same price ball park, but for reasons like not getting responses to questions and lack of an active userbase for help I have ruled them out and feel MakerFarm would probably improve my chances for a successful printing experience. So I am ready to pull the trigger on this one.

The intended use for this printer is for prototyping small parts before manufacture and parts will be in the 6"x6"x4" or smaller range, but like this printer for the ability to go a bit bigger if needed.

I need a little advice before I order though. I'm not sure which nozzle to get with the kit. I think the hexagon might be best since I will be able to print materials other than ABS and PLA, but I don't know if the 1.75mm or 3mm would be best. What difference would I see between the two in actually printing and what advantages would each provide? It seems 3mm material is a bit cheaper to buy than the 1.75mm. Is there a reason for this?

Also, are there upgrades or additions I should order initially to make this a better printer or is the stock kit fine as it is? Should I get the additional items for auto leveling and install this during the build, or do that mod down the road after gaining some experience with the stock build? And of course, what should I be considering that I haven't thought of before purchasing?

I've got the cash set aside for the purchase and I'm chomping at the bit to get it ordered and on the way, but I would rather get some advice before placing my order to reduce any possible frustration from folks that have been down this road already. I've been lurking here and other sites for a couple of months now trying to understand the market a bit and what the benefits and frustrations of 3d printing might be, and since none of what I've seen has been enough to scare me away, I guess I'm ready to jump.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

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## MiniMadRyan

> Please share that STL file.  I printed this popular Z-endstop mod (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:336665) but the X-Carriage rails on the 10" i3v extend much further past the right vertical rail than the 8" i3v, so this mod wasn't compatible.


Here's the file, note that this was my quick and dirty version, and that the keyway on it is in the wrong position (it should have been on the other side) It fits pretty, well, you may need to do a bit of sanding on the screw holes depending on the screws used. 

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:437330

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## gmay3

> I need a little advice before I order though. I'm not sure which nozzle to get with the kit. I think the hexagon might be best since I will be able to print materials other than ABS and PLA, but I don't know if the 1.75mm or 3mm would be best. What difference would I see between the two in actually printing and what advantages would each provide? It seems 3mm material is a bit cheaper to buy than the 1.75mm. Is there a reason for this?


Hey Drone! Before I placed my order, I had the same dilemma. I was planning to go with the Jhead and then upgrading to a fancier hotend later, but I went with the 1.75 hexagon because I felt like it was worth the extra $20 to upgrade it a bit and make it more future proof. I really glad I did, and would recommend the hexagon after running it for 4 months or so. It's handled abs and pla very well and based on that, I would think that it will also be able to handle more exotic materials with no problem.

I went looking for concrete reasons to go with 1.75 or 3mm filament and it seemed like there wasn't many concrete arguments for settling on either. It is totally your preference. I went for 1.75mm and in order to make a decision I thought about the the following (very topical, and insignificant) physical differences:

1. There is less print head motion resistance than having to move a thicker 3mm strand of filament back and forth.
2. There is less friction/resistance inside the inner wall of the hotend tube because the the surface area of the filament in the hotend tube is half of what the resistance of the 3mm filament.
3. I would think that there is less ooze with 1.75mm filament because you would need a shorter amount of retraction to stop the flow and there is less force from the extruder motor needed compared to 3mm. 3mm getting extruded out of a 0.4mm nozzle vs 1.75mm getting extruded out of a 0.4mm nozzle.
4. It seems like the general 3d printing industry trend is going slightly towards 1.75mm.
5. It doesn't hold its curve from the spool as rigidly so it may be easier to pull into the extruder.




> Also, are there upgrades or additions I should order initially to make this a better printer or is the stock kit fine as it is? Should I get the additional items for auto leveling and install this during the build, or do that mod down the road after gaining some experience with the stock build? And of course, what should I be considering that I haven't thought of before purchasing?


I was impressed with my stock printer right from the first print. I don't think there are any mods that you NEED to do to get great prints. However, there are always things to improve so you can customize your printer to your needs. Check out the Show your Mods thread for some great ones. Speaking personally, I don't see a need for auto leveling right now and you can definitely add it on later if you want. I have found that I need to level the bed maybe every 20 prints but before I bought my printer I had thought it would be needed after every print.

The only mod I would DEFINITELY recommend is to buy two 5mm x 5mm aluminum rod couplers and install those instead of the shitty plastic tubing used to fix the threaded rods to the z motors. Throw those in the trash instantly, lol! I don't understand why aluminum rod couplers aren't included in the first place but Colin sells these on his site and I would definitely add them to your order. I bent my threaded rods installing them and it killed my hands trying to get them in. 

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask!

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## Drone

Thanks so much for your help gmay3. Your answers make sense and I am going to order the printer with the hexagon 1.75mm. Good advice on the couplers too. I had bookmarked the Amazon coupler link from earlier in this thread but didn't realize Makerfarm had these available. I will order the couplers from Makerfarm and install these during initial build. I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions once I receive the printer and get it built, but your answers have really helped with those couple of niggling questions I had before I could even place my order. Looks like it's order day! I'll probably take advantage of the 5.00 off per roll of filament and get a roll of both ABS and PLA to start directly from Makerfarm so if I have any initial issues I'm at least starting with material Makerfarm approves of. It seems material quality can be a big issue with print quality and I don't want to add frustration with my initial prints caused by sub standard quality filament. Where do you buy filament from? And what vendors are considered quality filament? I also noticed Makerfarm now has 1 day shipping for 20.00 rather than 5 day wait, wasn't there yesterday, guess another 20.00 wont really hurt so I'll spring for that also.Thanks again for the help!

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## gmay3

Cool! Glad to hear! Order day is the best day lol

Yeah good call on getting both a PLA and ABS roll. So far I have ordered 3 rolls from Makerfarm, I was going to shop around but I didn't really see lower prices anywhere else and I'd like to support Colin's business. Also, sometimes Colin has special prices on cracked rolls/ripped bag filament and I can say that I haven't had issues with either.

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## Drone

Damn, had everything in the cart; 10" i3v, 2 couplers, 1 roll PLA, 1 roll ABS, and shipping and it all disappeared!

Might be because I hit the purchase button... Woot!

Really looking forward to this, thanks again for the advice.

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## usarmyaircav

> Damn, had everything in the cart; 10" i3v, 2 couplers, 1 roll PLA, 1 roll ABS, and shipping and it all disappeared!
> 
> Might be because I hit the purchase button... Woot!
> 
> Really looking forward to this, thanks again for the advice.


Mine is supposed to ship on Tuesday without a hotend.  I was going to go with the E3d  but since I am unsure of how it is going to mount I am going to email Colin, and get a hexagon hot end because of gmay3 and other reviews.  So bummed I am going to be out of town when it gets here!!!!!

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## printbus

> Mine is supposed to ship on Tuesday without a hotend.  I was going to go with the E3d  but since I am unsure of how it is going to mount I am going to email Colin, and get a hexagon hot end because of gmay3 and other reviews.  So bummed I am going to be out of town when it gets here!!!!!


The hex hot end is a fine choice. As I understand it, it's just a knock-off version of the E3D.  About the issue with the plastic mounting plate and the E3D - what I do know is that with the hex hot end on the aluminum plate and a quiet 5 CFM fan with shroud, I was doing fine with PLA. When I started working with ABS, however, one day I noticed the printed extruder base had softened up and the extruder assembly was leaning over quite a bit.  That told me there's more concern for getting heat pulled off the hot end heatsink than I thought.

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## usarmyaircav

> The hex hot end is a fine choice. As I understand it, it's just a knock-off version of the E3D.  About the issue with the plastic mounting plate and the E3D - what I do know is that with the hex hot end on the aluminum plate and a quiet 5 CFM fan with shroud, I was doing fine with PLA. When I started working with ABS, however, one day I noticed the printed extruder base had softened up and the extruder assembly was leaning over quite a bit.  That told me there's more concern for getting heat pulled off the hot end heatsink than I thought.


Hi printbus.  So do you think I will need a larger fan, as I am starting with ABS?

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## printbus

> Hi printbus.  So do you think I will need a larger fan, as I am starting with ABS?


I assume we're talking about the E3D? I really don't know, since I don't have one. The E3D does come with what appears to be a pretty good shroud - better than the open-style one on the hex hot end.  That should help keep the airflow focused on the heatsink fins, which is good.  I have no idea how the E3D fan compares to what MakerFarm provides with the hex hot end (which is probably just what is provided by reprapdiscount), but I'm sure both of those put through more airflow than the really quiet fan I tried to get by with on my hex hot end. I guess my best recommendation would be to go back to the thingi guy and ask if he's used it with an E3D running at ABS temperatures, and go from there.

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## usarmyaircav

> I assume we're talking about the E3D? I really don't know, since I don't have one. The E3D does come with what appears to be a pretty good shroud - better than the open-style one on the hex hot end.  That should help keep the airflow focused on the heatsink fins, which is good.  I have no idea how the E3D fan compares to what MakerFarm provides with the hex hot end (which is probably just what is provided by reprapdiscount), but I'm sure both of those put through more airflow than the really quiet fan I tried to get by with on my hex hot end. I guess my best recommendation would be to go back to the thingi guy and ask if he's used it with an E3D running at ABS temperatures, and go from there.


I apologize, I forgot to say that I changed my order to go with the hexagon hot end.  So with that one and printing ABS do I need to use a different fan our shroud?

Todd

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## printbus

> ...I changed my order to go with the hexagon hot end.  So with that one and printing ABS do I need to use a different fan our shroud?


Those printing longer than I would be better able to answer that.  I don't recall, however, reading about anyone else having the same issue.  The extruder motor can get hot and soften that part of the extruder base, yes, but that's different.  To be thorough, I should clarify that I had sort of a perfect storm situation going on.   I had installed the quietest, lowest-flow 40mm fan that I could find locally onto the hot end shroud.  Then I had blocked some of the hot end fan airflow by mounting the clough42 print cooling duct on top of the hot end fan.  Clough42 outright says the duct is incompatible with the stock cooling for the hex hot end, but existing comments on Thingiverse led me to giving it a try anyway and it seemed to be OK.  I was printing ABS at 230, and I had been doing prints all day.  At the end, I was printing multiple parts concurrently and I think I had the bed cranked up pretty high to help with bed adhesion.  Finally, I also have LEDs mounted to the bottom of the carriage. Some of the heat from the bed and the LEDs would have been soaking into the carriage as well as the heat from the hot end.    

BTW, apologies to 1stage for continuing the thread hijack.

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## Drone

Got my UPS tracking number today! Printer will be here on Wed. I'm getting excited to start the build now. For once, I wouldn't mind a couple of slow days at work so I can sneak out early starting Wed.

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## gmay3

Todd, you will need to use a fan to print ABS and have the fan running at all times. I would also run it during every PLA print too just to be safe. I accidentally had it unplugged and it the heat traveled up melted/ruined my extruder pieces and jammed my printer. 

Makerfarm will give you the kit pictured here with your printer order, which includes this fan and fan shroud among other things:

http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/hexagon-hot-end.html

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## usarmyaircav

I had to email Colin and put my order on hold.  I originally ordered without a hot end and was going to order an E3d.  Since I was having issues figuring how I was going to mount the E3d, since it doesn't come with a mount plate and I just couldn't confirm how I was going to mount it, and since gmay3 and some others have said that they had good luck with the hexagon, I figured I will just go with that for now, and when I get more experience or build another printer will give the E3d a shot.  Because of all this, I went to pay the difference, and had issues with paypal, and am now travelling for work, so now my kit won't be there waiting for me when I get back. sooo bummed!

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## gmay3

Well, I think you made a good choice, even though it's disappointing that it won't be there as quickly. I think it will save you some headaches so you can just focus on the build process!

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## clough42

> I had to email Colin and put my order on hold.  I originally ordered without a hot end and was going to order an E3d.  Since I was having issues figuring how I was going to mount the E3d, since it doesn't come with a mount plate and I just couldn't confirm how I was going to mount it, and since gmay3 and some others have said that they had good luck with the hexagon, I figured I will just go with that for now, and when I get more experience or build another printer will give the E3d a shot.  Because of all this, I went to pay the difference, and had issues with paypal, and am now travelling for work, so now my kit won't be there waiting for me when I get back. sooo bummed!


The hex is a good choice.  I'm very happy with mine.  I would recommend heating it to temperature the first time and retightening the nozzle and barrel.  All-metal hot ends can loosen as the aluminum block expands.

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## Drone

My 10" i3v came in yesterday and started the build yesterday evening. Have an iPad next to my build area to play the build videos and follow along. So far build is going very nicely, all parts are there and no issues to deal with yet. Going together quite well. Colin did a great job on the videos, but I really would have liked to see a DVD with the build videos with a menu system to navigate easily to the right building section. Wouldn't be expensive to do and would add some value to an already great kit.

Just got home from work and after a bite to eat I'm going to start on the frame assembly. I'm enjoying the build and am taking my time since half the fun for me is building and configuring, so I'm in no rush. I figure I should be ready to fire up and start calibration Saturday afternoon, but I'll see how it goes.

Thanks for all the advice from previous posters in this forum. Even though I had read most of it before, now that I have the kit and I'm assembling it these posts make a lot more sense.

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## gzzmos

I got my 10" I3v 2 weeks ago and love it! took me about 10hrs to build. been making spare parts and small upgrades for it.

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## usarmyaircav

I should be fixing my order tonight, so mine should ship early next week.  I think I am going to go the route of gmay3, and spray paint the wood pieces before putting them together.

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## jtice

Some great info here guys. I am very seriously considering this printer.

I originally was going to buy a Wanhao Duplicator 4. They seem to have a decent following, and since they are modeled off the Makerbots alot of the support for them carries over.
I generally dont mind kits, but this being my first 3D printer I was leaving toward an assembled printer.
The Wanhao seems like it would be very sturdy since it has a full case, they actually just released the Duplicator 4S, that has an all steel case.

Do you guys feel the Prusa printers are made well as far as being sturdy and ridged?

One thing I seem to be hung up on is build volume. I dont neeeeed it to be huge, but I really dont want to run into things I want to print but cant due to size.
The Wanhao has a build volume of 225mm x 145mm x 150mm, vs. the Prusa 10" being 254mm x 254mm
I also like that the Prusa is upgradable, and I see there are already larger heated beds available.
Really wish they had a 12" x 12" kit !!!!!!!!  I would buy that for sure!
I dont want to deal with modding it right at first though, since this is my first printer, I think it would be best to build it stock. Then maybe upgrade later.

The Wanhaos are also enclosed. Do any of you feel that the open design of the Prusa hurts your prints?
I have read that having an enclosure helps with printer ABS.
I suppose I could eventually build some sort of lexan box to place over the Prusa.

I assume the software side of things is good with the Prusa also?
As far as being able to use the typical softwares like ReplicatorG, Makerware, Sli3r? (I plan to print from SD card)
What about the firmware thats on the Prusa, is it considered to be good firmware?

Thanks for the help guys, itching to order one!

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## gmay3

usarmyaircav,

I just wanted to clarify that it was printbus that spray painted his parts before assembly. Mine's still the bare wood but if I had to do it again I would spray paint em!  :Big Grin:

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## usarmyaircav

Thanks for the clarification gmay3!  :Smile:   I just got notification that my 10" I3v shipped!

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## gmay3

That's great! Also, I should mention that I used thread locker blue on every structural screw without a locknut that did not need to be calibrated or adjusted in the future.

Just to avoid any confusion, some examples of where *not* to put threadlocker would be the bed leveling screws, screws used to mount the 3d printed extruder parts or hot end to the x carriage, and essentric spacer assemblies. Also do not use threadlocker when the nylon locking nuts are required.

Some examples of where to use threadlocker would be the x and y carriage structures and frame screws where a nut trap is used with a non locking nut.

If you have any questions during your build, Colin is a great resource, but also feel free to ask all of us!

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## Drone

I finished my printer this weekend and printed out a few test prints. Overall it looks pretty good, but a few areas of the print could be improved like the top layer is not smooth. It looks like there is not enough material on the top horizontal surface after the infill. Maybe the infill should stop a couple of layers sooner and the top surface should be solid for a thicker surface. Maybe a design issue of the tool holder, I'm not really sure. If you look at the first picture you can see inside the square recess and see the honeycomb infill pattern like the solid layer over the top of the surface is not thick enough and the top horizontal surface did not come out smooth at all. It looks like it needs more PLA extruded for solid horizontal surfaces. Not sure. Here's a tool holder from Thingiverse and this took 14hrs to print.

IMG_0304a.jpg

The vertical surfaces look pretty good except for the cupping at all the corners. I'm not sure what's causing that, but layer heights look consistent.

IMG_0308a.jpg

Here's 2 more from different angles.

IMG_0306a.jpgIMG_0307a.jpg

The pictures look like there are some small gaps between layers, but there are no gaps. Just bad lighting, bad iPhone camera, and bad photographer (me). I made the mistake of using a heated bed with PLA and blue tape, I thought that was what I was supposed to do. Getting this off the build plate was seriously difficult even after a 2 hr cool down and I still have some tape adhered to the bottom of the print that will need to be scraped off I guess unless anyone has a good trick to get rid of the tape. I will try blue tape without heat and see if that helps with print release while still holding well during a print. The bottom covered very well and it looks like if I want a smooth bottom blue tape is not going to be the answer since the bottom has the transferred the tape texture and lines to the bottom surface of the print. Here is the bottom.

IMG_0309a.jpg

I'm not unhappy with the first prints, although the first 2 prints weren't great until I measured the distance from either side of the build plate to the underside of the X axis aluminum extrusion and adjust the Z nuts until the extrusion was level to the bed (why wasn't this step in the instructions? Seems kind of important) and this made a very big difference in the squareness of the test prints . I did print a few small parts before the tool holder print, but I really wanted to know if the printer could sustain long print jobs without issue. At 14 hrs this gives me confidence that the printer is reasonably built and just needs a bit of tweaking here and there. The motors never got that hot, even the extruder motor. I could hold my finger on the motor indefinitely even at the 14hr mark, so I guess the driver must be close to a good adjustment. I also haven't really done any calibration yet either other than bed leveling, but my next step will be to calibrate the filament feed rate.

Like I said, I'm pretty happy with the early results and I'm sure this is going to work fine for the prototyping I want to do with this printer. I just need to address some fine tuning issues at this point. If any of you see obvious areas I should consider changing/adjusting please feel free to comment. All I've done so far is pretty much stock build and stock settings, so I'm sure there is lots of room for improvement. Comments welcome!

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## printbus

Drone - you're using slic3r v0.9.9, right?  Maybe someone has a miracle solution for it, but being light on topfill seems to be a common complaint with it.  There's a thread here somewhere with experiments related to eliminating that on the top of a knob.

On the blue tape - just rubbing the tape remnants with a wet finger has worked for me.  I have found that if I clean the tape with alcohol before printing, there's almost a permanent bond between PLA and the tape.  Regardless of bed temperature.  

A couple of us would be curious to know the part number or type number shown on the stepper motor labels.  That'd tell us whether Colin has moved to a different motor, possibly explaining why motors aren't getting hot for some people.

EDIT: Here's the other thread.  Use of a print cooler was proven by clough42 to be something that would make a difference.  http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...nner-questions

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## usarmyaircav

printbus, what size head did you get and do you print with PLA or ABS more?  My kit will get here on Friday, so I will post the part #'s

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## printbus

> printbus, what size head did you get and do you print with PLA or ABS more?  My kit will get here on Friday, so I will post the part #'s


Some of us put info like that in our signature line for reference - I have a 0.40mm Hexagon.  My print log shows about 25% ABS and 75% PLA.  I sort of go in waves. Color is a key driver - I think black is the only color I have in both ABS and PLA.  Right now my preference is to print using PLA.

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## usarmyaircav

> Some of us put info like that in our signature line for reference - I have a 0.40mm Hexagon.  My print log shows about 25% ABS and 75% PLA.  I sort of go in waves. Color is a key driver - I think black is the only color I have in both ABS and PLA.  Right now my preference is to print using PLA.


DOH!!!!  I totally missed your sig line.  Wow!  Thanks for the information!

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## Drone

> Drone - you're using slic3r v0.9.9, right?  Maybe someone has a miracle solution for it, but being light on topfill seems to be a common complaint with it.  There's a thread here somewhere with experiments related to eliminating that on the top of a knob.
> 
> On the blue tape - just rubbing the tape remnants with a wet finger has worked for me.  I have found that if I clean the tape with alcohol before printing, there's almost a permanent bond between PLA and the tape.  Regardless of bed temperature.  
> 
> A couple of us would be curious to know the part number or type number shown on the stepper motor labels.  That'd tell us whether Colin has moved to a different motor, possibly explaining why motors aren't getting hot for some people.


Yeah, I'm using Slic3r 0.9.9 as recommended by Colin. Is 1.1.7 better for this? Or should I consider Cura? I guess I'll try 1.1.7 and 1.2.0 experimental (probably not ready for primetime, but I'll give it a shot anyway on a small part)


Denatured alcohol and a bit of rubbing got rid of the excess tape and residue with no harm to the print, so I guess that will work.  

Here is the tag on the extruder motor:

IMG_0317a.jpg

I just printed a Z axis endstop mount without heat and with blue tape and it worked well. So it looks like I won't be using the heated bed for PLA unless others think there is a good reason to use heat. Haven't tried ABS yet. I do have a roll, but thought I would get PLA working right first, and since I'm printing inside my house I have no idea what the fumes from ABS would be like. The smell from PLA is not an issue, but from what others have posted ABS might be.

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## printbus

Yep. Different motor.  AFAIK, the "hot" ones are 42BHH48-050-24A.

EDIT: So that search engines pick it up, the type number in drone's servo picture is 42BHH48-151K-24B.  That's likely a 4V 1.5 amp motor, a better fit.

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## gmay3

Thanks for the picture Drone and thanks printbus for the part number breakdown.

Hmm, I suspect I have the hot ones as well. I haven't any issues as they have not gotten hot enough to melt the ABS extruder or anything, they just run extremely hot to the touch. I'll check the number and report back.

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## clough42

> Yep. Different motor.  AFAIK, the "hot" ones are 42BHH48-050-24A.
> 
> EDIT: So that search engines pick it up, the type number in drone's servo picture is 42BHH48-151K-24B.  That's likely a 4V 1.5 amp motor, a better fit.


I'm so glad to see this.  But sad that I've got the old motors.

Looks like Colin is importing these things in tremendous quantities:  https://www.importgenius.com/importers/maker-farm-inc

2075KG of motors is a lot of motors.

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## usarmyaircav

> I'm so glad to see this.  But sad that I've got the old motors.
> 
> Looks like Colin is importing these things in tremendous quantities:  https://www.importgenius.com/importers/maker-farm-inc
> 
> 2075KG of motors is a lot of motors.


Wow, there is no way that can be cheap!

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## gmay3

clough42, I'm interested to know if you are planning to switch to the new motors if they are available.

Do you think it's worth a complete or partial swap?

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## dacb

Just got my 10" up and running.  One great upgrade you can do in your second print for the 10" is the i3v 10" Z Endstop Brack by MiniMadRyan. This makes bed leveling, starting at the nylon spacer corner, faster.  Stock, I found the M5 T-nut bolt was obstructed by the Z-axis coupling and was a clumsy way to adjust with precision.  I was up then down then up then down as the stop would shift up and down while I tightened it. In contrast, I found bed level Nirvana when combined with a set of small thumbscrews for the other 3x M3 nylon locknuts at.

As an aside, my 10" kit came with extra T-nuts for the aluminum extrusions so mounting the bracket was didn't require any hardware purchases.  It also had extra M3 screws to use for the adjustment screw. I find that the head to the adjustment screw is mostly blocked by the top idler which means the hex driver is difficult to use, but I was able to fine tune from the side using a pair of needle nose pliers.

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## clough42

> clough42, I'm interested to know if you are planning to switch to the new motors if they are available.
> 
> Do you think it's worth a complete or partial swap?


If you're struggling with the extruder motor, it's probably worth it.  The other motors get hot, but seem to work okay.  I'm using a different extruder already, so I'll probably wait for something to fail.

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## printbus

gmay, you wouldn't have to get replacement motor(s) from just MakerFarm.  Starting with the info here - http://reprap.org/wiki/Stepper_motor, you'd want a two-phase NEMA17 with specs of 3-5 volts,  1-1.5A, and a holding torque greater than 40 N-cm (or 56 oz-in).  You'd want a 5mm diameter shaft, preferably flatted.  I bought a 76 oz-in Kysan 1124090 on eBay to use for the extruder so I won't have to worry about heat or the weight and bulk of the motor fan & shroud, but I haven't installed it yet.  You'd likely want to keep the two Z-motors identical, but other than that all the motors don't have to be the same.

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## RaySuave

> As an aside, my 10" kit came with extra T-nuts for the aluminum extrusions so mounting the bracket was didn't require any hardware purchases.  It also had extra M3 screws to use for the adjustment screw. I find that the head to the adjustment screw is mostly blocked by the top idler which means the hex driver is difficult to use, but I was able to fine tune from the side using a pair of needle nose pliers.


You should be able to make adjustments using a ball ended allen wrench, I use this type to adjust the screw easily.  Adjusting using pliers sounds like a pain...but it sure still beats the stock method.
ballend.jpg

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## gmay3

Ok thanks for the info guys, I don't think I'll need to upgrade quite yet!

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## MiniMadRyan

Thanks everyone for the comments on my endstop! Maybe I'll get around to revising it one of these days. Finally got the i3v calibrated half-decently and printed out a calibration cube last night. Aside from my steppers running a bit warm (which I'll adjust the pots for) it ran very well. The overall speed was a bit slow (around 20 minutes to print the cube) so I will be playing with that in the next few days...

.IMG_20140904_204925.jpg

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## dacb

congratulations!

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## jtice

Well after some more research I decided on the Prusa i3v 10"
Placed my order on the 31st. Now I am watching for an email saying it has shipped, very excited !!!

I have ordered both PLA and ABS filament, seems PLA is easier to work with, but I think I might start with ABS, 
only due to the fact that there are some printer parts I want to get printed right after I do a few test prints.
Improved Hex Cooling
Stepper Motor Cooler
Additional Fan Cooling Duct
End Stop Adjustment Bracket

What other replacement printer parts should I print first? And where can I get the files for these?

Also, what is the main programs you guys like for the Prusa?
I have played around with some of the software, I think I like Sli3er the best, but wasnt sure if it liked the Prusa ?
And are you choosing the RepRap printer as printer type in these programs?
Didnt know if there was anything in particular I needed to do as far as settings for this particular printer. (aside from the typical trial and error tuning)

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## printbus

> Well after some more research I decided on the Prusa i3v 10"
> Placed my order on the 31st. Now I am watching for an email saying it has shipped, very excited !!!
> 
> I have ordered both PLA and ABS filament, seems PLA is easier to work with, but I think I might start with ABS, 
> only due to the fact that there are some printer parts I want to get printed right after I do a few test prints.
> Improved Hex Cooling
> Stepper Motor Cooler
> Additional Fan Cooling Duct
> End Stop Adjustment Bracket
> ...


You may not need the shroud for the extruder motor.  Sounds like the newer kits come with motors better suited for the printer application, and these don't get so hot. 

Files for replacement printer parts are available through links Colin provides in the build guide.  

Yes on the rep rap printer type.  Slic3r v0.9.9 is a good choice to start with since MakerFarm provides pretailored configuration files that give you a jump on getting started, although some of the settings undergo second-guessing here.  Again, these files are available through links in the build guide.  Slic3r has its nuances, and some move on to another slicer shortly after getting the printer up and running.

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## dacb

I can confirm printbus's comment about the new motors.  My extruder motor hardly gets warm even towards the end of arduous 6 hour prints.  

I would also recommend getting your settings squared away with some test objects, e.g. the LFS elephant is fun print and give away (even if it isn't perfect).  Then print a backup extruder using the STL file links in the build guide, as printbus mentioned.  In my experience, I had to do totally separate optimization processes for PLA and ABS, so I might expect that you will want to spend some time with each material.  I started with PLA and blue painter's tape and MakerFarm's settings for Slic3r v0.9.9 and my hollow cube first print "just worked," so I might recommend you start with that.  No so much for ABS: getting the prints not to warp was a huge trial and error process that ended up with me using ABS slurry on straight glass and using Cura as the slicer.

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## usarmyaircav

My printer came today!!!!!! All I got to do was open the box though.  :Frown:   Hoping to spray paint the wood parts tomorrow.  Soo exicited!!!!!

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## dacb

Congratulations!

For paint, if you are going to take all of the wood pieces apart and remove the the squares and holes that will hold screws and wood to wood joints, I would recommend using a thin lacquer and give it about 4 thin coats. If you go with a high build paint, the pieces may not fit well and you will end up having to really press thing together which might risk breaking them. Even with the lacquer, I had this problem in two spots. I had to resist the temptation to use the screws to pull everything together because they would star tot deform the nut captive in the wood. My trusty rubber mallet worked, at my kid's suggestion (hurray for brute force).

I went with $5 black spray lacquer from a large retail home improvement store (two cans). I believe Clough42 did something similar.

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## AbuMaia

I agree. If you're going to paint the wood, do not remove the scrap pieces until painting is done. This makes assembly much easier, not having paint in the holes and on the tabs.

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