# 3D Printing > 3D Printers (Hardware) >  My First CoreXY

## AutoWiz

Well I was hoping I was gonna slow down on the rate at which I have been bleeding out the monies on this hobby. But I guess that is just not in the cards. It has been pointed out to my ignorant self that the higher temp filaments in which I am wanting to print all want an enclosure to assist in maintaining an ambient temp and also a silicone bed that can handle the high extruder temps. Because I turned the bed sideways on my Big Red printer an enclosure for that would have to be absolutely huge and a separate structure built over the printer. For a coreXY I can just apply paneling to the sides of the cube. And so I am thinking about taking the mmu2s and maybe using it here and there on old blue(geeetech i3) then taking the 3 color mixing parts off of Printalicious and putting them on Big Red so that I can take the BondTech BMG-M extruder with Mosquito hotend and apply it to this: https://www.tronxyonline.com/Tronxy-...mm-p61067.html . Sounds like a lot of fun doesn't it? My current 3 color mixing printer, Printalicious, has a ugly wooden frame and my Creation Station would look awesome with Big Red on the left and the huge CoreXY on the right. Nothing but aluminum extrusion any way you look.

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## AutoWiz

I ordered mine off ebay because it was over $100 cheaper right here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tronxy-X5SA...UAAOSwhN9fFVNZ . And it can be had for the low 7's if we just don't get the PRO which is surprisingly close to what I paid for the Tevo Black Widow with BLTouch a few years ago. Guess I got some more 3d printer building to do. Like the kool-aid man said, OH YA!

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## curious aardvark

> Printalicious, has a ugly wooden frame


Say: classic, even retro - ebviromentally friendly, easy to work with. 
But ugly ? 
Never ! 
lol

Really interested to see what you make of the corexy system. 
I'm still trying to get my head around how it works. 
If you move the head diagonally - just one belt moves. If you move  it side to side both move in opposite directions - and if you move back and forwards both move in the same direction (or vicey versa - I#m not in the workshop, so can't check). 

What I'm waiting for is a corexy IDEX. 
Just watching the 4 belts moving would keep me entranced permamently. 
Can't see any reason it couldn't be done. 

If it doesn't come as direct drive - it's an easy conversion and the etra weight shouldn't make any difference at all .
 I just had to print a single bracket.

As far as a different print surface goes - polycarbonate prints happily on 85c and up. 

Short of PEEK - not sure what you want to use that needs more than 120c (what most beds seem to go to now). 
okay - re-reads post - what are you trying to print, that goes high enough to melt pei ? 

 A decent hi-temp hotend that could sustaion 300c would be nice and I might consider that at some point.

But you'll have a blast :-)

500x500x600 - that is a BIG beast. 
Also currious to see what you think of the odd looking 'linear' ? rails. 

Looking at the listing - claims to have a 3 year warranty. 
Are we believing this ? ;-)

One description I love: 'building materials: aluminium and metal'
So aluminium AND metal ! 
Cor ;-)

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## AutoWiz

I understand the corexy belts. It is similar to your delta where multiple steppers move together to generate motion on one axis. On the delta it is a blend of all 3 but on corexy it is just x and y that blend. The color coded diagram of the two belts on top shows how this motion will work.. 
 
I know those belts need to be tight. But even more important I know this printer just like the Tevo Black Widow is a problem child right out of the gate. The reviews I saw from early 2017 on the BW that called it dangerous and a fire hazard and other terrible names is what got me all excited about getting it. And why I never put it together the right way from new. And that is exactly what this is because that is what is exciting to me. These are the tronxy x5sa pro reviews that helped push me to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiJg7f9ib4M&t= . And also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cosb_F8NRIM . Now these are people reviewing the machine exactly as it comes and have made absolutely no attempt at correcting anything at the time of these reviews. I will draw up and print out some new motor mounts and for the X gantry I will make some pieces to attach to each end and keep the gantry square. Until I get HIWIN rails and guides and a 1 piece gantry going. But I am aware of it's shortcomings and can't wait to tackle them. As I understand it the biggest problem I need to overcome is the top 3 piece assembly that make up the gantry and how it does not want to stay square. Here is a picture of it all together from their website..

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## AutoWiz

And so until it arrives I can only watch this video a thousand or more times and plot, plan, and order better hardware and frame reinforcements accordingly so we are ready to build when it arrives. This video is the factory correct assembly from TronXY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJWcAGB-UZg . It is so not how I will assemble mine.

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## curious aardvark

yeah the gantry setup with just extrusion is an issue. 
That's what I like about the sapphire. 
Base is a solid box of 2.25 mm steel and the top gantry plate is a single slab of 6mm aluminium with the rails bolted directly to it. 
It's the most rigid thing I've ever seen. 

You should be able to make a top plate - must have the cutting gear at work.
And didn't you recenty invest in a plasma cutter ? 

And the belts actually don't need to be 'tight'. Because both motors are always pulling together often in opposite dierctions. There always seems to be tight areas and slack areas. 

I will tighten mine up slightly with the new connectors - but given I can knock out a smooth working 40mm iris box at 150mm/s with the direct drive setup - they are obviously not as loose as I think they are :-)

lol you deliberately picked a printer you NEED to rebuild didn't you :-)

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## AutoWiz

Oh ya. but also the largest build envelope i could find so the payoff will be worthwhile. 500x500x600. But this is getting the best of everything. and today all i can think about is your surprise that i used cheap electronics in my Multi Widow. You were and are right and my every thought right now is on the duet 3 6hc along with the 7" touchscreen to go with it. I might have to bite the bullet and learn the reprap 3 FW. Thank God I have you and Spegelius.

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## curious aardvark

lol ah, was that the comment about removeable stepper drivers versus built on ? 

I mean it's not about cost. the skr 1.3 turbo board I bought was stupid cheap - but has removeable stepper drivers. 
And as really the main issue you're likely to get at any point - it's really the only thing to look out for.

If you look around here - apart from a few boards where the hotbed circuits fry (mainly creality boards it seems) stepper drivers are pretty much the only thing you're likely to have trouble with. 

So by getting a board with replaceable chips - you're actually saving money in the long run, and also vastly simplifying the whole trouble shooting process. 

But when you look at what the skr boards cost and what they can do - there's no way I'd go near a duet. 
But then I'm unlikely to ever build something as complicated as you are :-)

Yeah that build volume on the tronxy is pretty huge.  

I think if I ever need to get something that large it'll probably be a belt machine. That way I don't need a whole new room to keep it in :-)

I actually quite fancy having  ago at making a really small one 100x100 with infinite length would be an interesting size to build.
You could actually print 'extrusion' or pipes to any length. 
Or possibly smaller. I guess it all depends on what i can find to use as the belt.
An inside out sander belt would work well and you can just coat the smooth surface with some printer glue or kapton tape.
You'd only need a really tiny hotbed as well.  

I mena I have no actual reason so to do - just strikes me as a fun project :-)

And don't look at me as far as firmware goes - I still have no clue how to update the configuration file on the sapphire.

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## AutoWiz

I am also gonna put an endoscope on the nozzle, another camera to stare at the print. rgb lighting, And I have a plan and already ordered parts to rework the frame so it takes an even smaller footprint than it does now while looking emptier or more open inside the cube and also to make the whole structure more rigid. It has already shipped and we should be days away from receiving it. You should definitely build you a coreXY in whatever size you are comfortable with. This is such a fun hobby and you have other printers to make parts with. PETG makes for a better functional part than PLA. And you know if you need it when you get there Spegelius and I will do our absolute best to help you get the firmware up and going and dialed in.

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## AutoWiz

Well the TronXY might have to display the Creality logo. I know I want to swap the bed heater for a 500x500 mains powered silicone heater I will stick to the underside of the bed. This will get up to temp in 1 minute instead of 10. I have been looking for a better build surface because the Gecko Tek build surface isn't good for high temp printing. I found this and Oh Man. Glass is and will always be flat. It is textured and the carbon silicone glass has a max working temp of 400c. I really think my TronXY might display the Creality logo on the bed:  https://usa.banggood.com/Creality-3D...r_warehouse=CN

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## curious aardvark

lol well the pet-g I was playing with was creality.
Nothing wring with their parts - it's just the way they bolt them together that's so awful :-)

You do know that even for PEEK you 'only' need a bed that goes to 250c ?
400c would seem like overkill - even for you :-)

As far as functional parts goes - nope pla is a lot more rigid, a lot harder and won't be used for anything that gets hot. Petg is really soft and flexible by comparison.
Also the layer bonding on pla is at least as good as pet-g. 

The 20x20 extrusion I made with pla was impossible to break just using your hands. 
My dad did manage, but only by using a metal rail as a lever_ (a man who see's the phrase: 'virtually indestructible' as a challenge rather than a statement)_.  But even then it did not snap cleanly across layers, but at a diagonal. And those I rattled off at 0.4mm layer and 150mm/s speed.

Not maiing a corexy - thinking about making a tiny belt machine :-)
I still have a bunch of miniature stepper motors. 
And i figure I can make the triagonal (triangular ? lol) frame ends in one piece on the sapphire. Rigid they will be.
I figure I can probably make everything needed without any metal frame pieces. It's not go9ing to be a speed demon.
Any metal necessary i can get in aluminium. Oh yeah and i can cut my own acrylic - keep forgetting about that lol
Plus I do have abunch of 20x20 and 20x40 aluminium extrusion in my original diode laser engraver. As I now have a modified k40, the diode frame and motors are basically there for parts. 

Just looking at the actual belt machine, it seems pretty simple. dual z screws for the up and down z-axis, simple belt setup for the x axis. The firmware is available. The black knight project (something like that anyway) - WHITE knight :-)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3324280
That's a big one 400x400xinfinity
I'm thinking a 300x100xwhatever - height really isn't important, when you can reorient and print lengthwise.
It'll be primarily for mass produced doodads, doohickeys and whatnots. As well as any really long bits - like sword blades for cosplayers etc.
the turbo skr boards have all the right connections and should take the firmware. I think I have just about everything else in here somewhere. The belt material is the only real issue.

The only slightly tricky bit is 'bed'calibration - which i suspect would make more sense adjusting the extruder height rather than adjusting the bed. 
Really just an idea at the moment :-)

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## AutoWiz

> You do know that even for PEEK you 'only' need a bed that goes to 250c ?400c would seem like overkill - even for you :-)


Bed temps are only half the battle. The bed needs to be able to handle the extruder temp for the first few layers. I joined the 300C+ group on F.B. and i've been learning.

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## AutoWiz

Well the parts have started to trickle in. I am still waiting for the printer but I got some of the hardware I ordered from Amazon. I have watched the build video from TronXY meticulously and many times and didnt see some of the hardware I am familiar with using on aluminum extrusion so I added that myself. The corner supports are for the bottom and maybe the top. The sides will be open squares with no corners. It is gonna look flimsy. I'm not even gonna use them angled side supports. But I am gettting ahead of myself. Check out this hardware. Aside from the corner supports that go inside the extrusion and a bunch of m5 screws There is also a bunch of sliding T slot nuts for all the horizontal beams and spring loaded sliding T slot nuts for the verticals. I do not use drop in nuts..

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## curious aardvark

what you got against drop in nuts ? 

I actually make my own for non critical add-ons and mods and slot a 3mm nut into the plastic part :-)
The tiamet diamond dust filament makes fantastically strong drop in nuts. And polycarbonatre would as well. 
have to try that :-)

the spring loaded ones are a good idea. the main hassle with pre loaded nuts is the fact that they slide all over the bloody place. 

So what high temp filaments are you looking at ? 
And would some of these applications be car related by any chance ;-)

Everything I can think of needs a pretty hot enclosed build volume. 
The minifactory peek printer basically prints inside a hot oven.

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## AutoWiz

Ya that's pretty much what I'm gonna create. As much of the electronics and components as possible will be outside the enclosure. Everything inside must be able to handle the heat comfortably. It is gonna be the centerpiece in my living room to boot so I can not have this huge structure just heat soaking my home so I have been pondering a double enclosure. That is transparent walls placed around the bed and then around the outside of the frame of the structure. There is room for me to do this and I am not sure if I will but it would be a novel way to keep some of the heat off the outside walls of the enclosure. And I am most definitely aiming to print parts I can directly bolt to an engine. Like my own custom engine cover. With my logo on it that I can sell on forums for those who have modded their Corvettes. And If i can design and make a few things to bolt to an engine maybe I can go setup a store on etsy.com and start linking everyone to it. And I did order that 510x510x4mm carbon silicone glass Ultrabase Creality build surface with the 400c support. It is coming from China so it will be a while but I am very excited to have this extrelemy flat and large build surface. The TronXY has the worst reviews on it's heated bed. Complaints the aluminum is bent right out of the box, the PLA temps melt the TronXY build surface, and complaints about a 10 minute heating time are some of the things I have to correct if I hope to get decent print quality out of this thing.

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## curious aardvark

interesting. 
At over $300 for a 500gm roll - PEEK is probably more expensive than just about any metal cover around. 

have you costed this out at all ? 
And if not peek - what else is there that's hitemp ?

(a few  minutes later)
hang on, in your living room ? 

How are you still married ?
;-)

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## AutoWiz

> what you got against drop in nuts ?


With this size extrusion if you are using drop in nuts you are sacrificing bolt diameter and contact patch for ease of assembly. If we are using printed parts then we make this problem worse. But if we use sliding T slot nuts then we do not need the thickness of the nut to be able to pass through the hole in the extrusion and instead of 4mm we can use 5mm hardware and enjoy twice the surface area biting on the extrusion..

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## AutoWiz

> interesting. 
> At over $300 for a 500gm roll - PEEK is probably more expensive than just about any metal cover around. 
> 
> have you costed this out at all ? 
> And if not peek - what else is there that's hitemp ?
> 
> (a few  minutes later)
> hang on, in your living room ? 
> 
> ...


I honestly did not know how much that filament is. But since I am building I am building for it. Whether or not or how much I use that filament has yet to be seen and there is a good chance I will just make plugs out of PLA or PETG to use as a mold to then make parts out of carbon fiber. So the big takaway here is I am building for high temp but very much look forward to burning through an aweful lot of the $20 ebay spools of PETG. I do find it heart wrenching that you say the high temp filament is expensive but it does make sense. The cheapness of the ebay filaments and the ability to tune the open source printers for that cheap filament has really empowered me to play a lot here and just keep my printers running. failed prints are really gonna hurt at that price. And ya the wife does not like my printers. I put the silent drivers in there and tell her I dont hear a thing but the blue geeetech i3 printer I moved to our bedroom and it starts fights when I run it while she needs to sleep.

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## AutoWiz

I have the printer in my possession since the weekend. I have the basic structure together but have stopped short of mounting any of the electronics. I want this machine to be able to stay on without driving up the power bill too much and I want it all to be reliable. So I am dumping the 500 watt 24v cheap power supply that came with the printer in favor of a smaller output and much more efficient MeanWell HRP-450-24 power supply. It's datasheet is right here: https://www.meanwell.com/productPdf.aspx?i=464 . I can get away with a smaller power supply because I am switching to a 120v bed heater. For this effort I have sourced a Crydom d2425 solid state relay along with a heatsink to mount it to and this here silicone bed heater from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/KEENOVO-Indus...06Y4JBW7S?th=1 . All of these parts along with the build surface are going to show up at some point or another. The build surface is coming from China so it might be a while. No worries. I am in no rush and this build happens at it's own pace as always. I also have a BLTouch v3.1 coming because I seriously doubt the TronXY Z sensor is gonna read the 4mm thick glass bed. And I have decided to dump the notion of reprap firmware and the duet stuff For Now. I might go after it in a rework later but for now I just want to go with what I already have had success with. So the plan for now is the SKR PRO with TMC2226 drivers and a tft70 v3.0 7" touchscreen. The 32 bit controller in the tft70 is the same 168mhz chip that drives the SKR PRO. And I'm gonna list some of these new tronxy electronic parts on ebay or let go or somewhere. Also this titan knockoff extruder has to go.

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## AutoWiz



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## spegelius

So these still have the separate Z-motors... I remember that was a PITA to keep level when Z motor current is tuned off. I designed a single Z motor mod: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3612257, but there are others available, I've seen one where the motor is located on the side which might be a better solution. Also for maybe more rigid bed support: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3630372, not sure if this works with the bigger printer, mine is X5S which is 330x330.

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## AutoWiz

I looked at them but my smooth rods are farther apart so those will not work. But no worries. I am going to drive this thing with a SKR PRO and 4 TMC2226 drivers. I think it would be absolutely awesome to have a printer with a glass bed that has sensorless homing for X,Y, and Z. It will make for less wires and a cleaner appearance. And it also wont matter if the bed falls to the ground every time the printer shuts off. It will level itself as it homes with the sensorless homing. I flipped the bearings upside down so the length of them sticks up and don't ya know all 4 bottom out on the top of the frame at a very good place to just use the bed screws to adjust the bed height for the first layer. So now I wish I didn't buy that BLTouch. Maybe I will send it back when it comes.

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## curious aardvark

so how does the sensorless homing work ? 

There was a post or thread or video i watched recently (well this year) about someone with a similarly size machine who had a stepper motor at each corner. So that the auto levelling was ACTUALLY auto leveloing. 
That sounds like you kind of thing :-)

I've never had  a bed move when the power is off. 
Admittedly all three of my vertically moving beds are held only at the back, but even without power, stepper motors don't turn all that loosely - after all the magnets are still working. 

Polycarbonate is going to be your hi-temp superstrong friend :-)

And i have some sample filament of polyamide - also fairly hi-temp and supposed to be super strong - I've never been able to test the polyamide stuff: https://www.bcn3d.com/product/pa-bcn3d-filaments/

Good for up to 120c - given that most car radiators will have blown by that point - ought to be good for some parts of an engine. 
And a LOT cheaper than PEEK (what isn't ? )

So despair not - you will not have to fall back on pet-g - which to be honest really isn't all that. It's soft, bendy and nowhere near as strong as pla. 
Polycarbonate and polyamide - are both well within Cuboxy's usage parameters.
Yes, it has a name :-)

They might even come in colours :-)

There are probably more engineering plastics around (hell I've probably got samples of some of them). 
PEEK's the top dog - stronger than aluminium - but the rest are all still pretty amazing :-)




> The polycarbonate filament can withstand temperatures ranging from -150°C to 140°C,


But doesn't like uv light - so not good for outdoor usage. 
https://www.3dnatives.com/en/polycar...ng-110220204/#!

Can you not build a shed for the printers and set up a bunch of networked cameras ?
has to make more sense than a divorce ;-)

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## AutoWiz

The sensorless homing goes with the tmc2209 or 2226 or 5160 drivers. There are 2 extra pins on these drivers one of which we have to cut if we are not using the sensorless homing. For this we should be using 32 bit boards like the SKR series so we have support for the extra pins on these drivers. Once together we tune the stepper voltage so it is strong enough to not skip but not so strong that it breaks our printers when it butts up against the frame. The driver senses the skipped steps and knows it is homed. I will show you guys my trick for sensorless homing on Z. And no shed. I rent. However, I am very much trying to get my own show on the road. My business is an LLC. And if I can get my shift together and get this off the ground then I will happily keep my printer(s) in my shop. Check out my professional logo. I paid somebody on fiverr.com for this..

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## curious aardvark

Ah - excellent explanation - so the stepper acts as it's own endstop sensor - clever - odd, but clever. 
Presumably that means it can home in either direction.

Good logo - mind you how many americans actually know what a proper gear shift stick looks like ;-)
In case anyone doesn't know. In britain 90% of cars are manual shift and in the states 90% are automatic.  I presume it's because your fuel costs about 1/3rd what ours does and automatics are nototiously bad on fuel economy. 

I guess when we all go electric, that all changes.

And yeah, how do you do sensorless homing on a moving z axis ? 
Particularly on a corexy - I presume you home it at the bottom of it's travel and it remembers where the start point is ?

Althogh it would probably make more sense to just have an moveable block at the top so that it's adjustable, should you change hotends or nozzles.

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## AutoWiz

So because of the way the frame and X carriage and leadscrews are I had to make these yellow bricks so the Z carriage didn't flex and allow for extra steps from the Z steppers. When the carriage bottoms out the leadscrew needs to sop immediately. That is the yellow bricks on the carriage at the leadscrews. The yellow support at the lower rear of the frame is for the filament spool holder. It is just a plate and flexes easily so now it doesn't. There are a few spacers I made to go under the idler plates up top at the front of the machine and also to relocate the filament runout sensor so it is in line with the BondTech BMG extruder. The fewer wires inside the cable chain allowed me to put the Capricorn tubing inside the cable chain for an even cleaner look. And because the printer is so huge I am just gonna leave it on the floor so I drew up these feet that raise the printer 100mm, square the lower frame, and also moves the rubber feet out to the corners so the printer is even more stable. So far so good. The bed is off for it's mod..

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## curious aardvark

you're not running it as a bowden are you ?

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## AutoWiz

Ya I am. But under the absolute best of conditions. Genuine Bondtech BMG extruder and real Capricorn brand tubing. I want to see how well we can get that to work. You know I am not afraid of making changes down the road. The Capricorn has a smaller ID than the rest and so the filament has less room to move about inside of the tubing and with Capricorn tubing we can usually lower our retraction settings. And even with the smaller tubing the filament pushes through it even easier than the regular PTFE. Amazing stuff. The bed doesn't move on the coreXY. just that hotend moves on X and Y. And so I want to explore just how lightweight I can get that assembly and what benefits I might actually see from it.

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## curious aardvark

honestly - a solid corexy doesn't notice the extra weight of even a hefty extruder like the bond-tech - pretty sure that's what mine uses. 
A 40mm smooth iris box printed at 150mm/s - with the slowest being 80% of that and the majority actually running at the full 150 - pretty much answers that question. 
You're going to be using proper linear rails arne't you ? 

The capricorn tubing sounds interesting - might look at that for my bigger delta. 
It's too small for a suspended extruder, but is currently using pretty wide bore tubing. 

So what's the capricorn tubing made of ? 
Some kind of self lubricating nylon ? 

The bed moves up and down :-)

And have alook at this for a PEEK printer ! 
https://www.e-ci.com/baam

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## AutoWiz

Ya this is gonna go be subject to a major future rework to include a direct drive extruder and some of them HIWIN rails. I just have to recover from this round of spending. But I am unimpressed with the rails or whatever these guides are that came with the pro. They aren't ruff but they aren't exactly smooth either or as smooth as them HIWINS. I swapped the generic titan that came with the tronxy with one of the 3 new Bondtech extruders I recently put on Printalicious. And I'm not buying a hotend for it at this point. So I haven't actually spent money on the extruder aside from the tubing so far. But I will get to it. And when I get there it will likely get a BMG-M extruder with Mosquito hotend. But for now I am just gonna find a bigger nozzle. I can't believe this came with a 0.4mm nozzle. I mean the build volume is 500x500x600. Somebody has a sense of humor. Anyways the Multi Widow can build up to 400x250x330 right now and I got a 0.6mm nozzle for that so I feel like the TronXY should be even bigger like 0.8 maybe? I have to see how big of a nozzle I can get for this TronXY hotend. self lubricating is exactly what the capricorn tubing feels like. I have some off brand stuff that is blue and then I got name brand Capricorn that is a darker blue. And I am so happy to FINALLY have a printer with a bed that doesn't move about.

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## Rex1

hi boy how are you

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## AutoWiz

I am good. How are you?

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## curious aardvark

it does go up and down - technically that's moving :-)

But I guess if you start out on i3's the rest of the industry is kind of different :-)

So when you getting a delta ? totally non-moving bed. 
Calibrate once - and pretty  much never again :-)

It's not _just_ that I like spending other people's money - Deltas are pretty damn cool.
And you can use one of these, you could stick one on cuboxy, but kind of wasted: https://flex3drive.com/product-categ...drive/g5-flex/

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## AutoWiz

I know I always wanted a delta, too. I just need more space for my hobby. In the meantime for any other TronXY X5SA owners out there that like my printers long legs, I shared my design on Thingiverse here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4632403

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## curious aardvark

well for a timker toy that takes up almost no deskspace: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cal...3709338&sr=8-1
price seems to have gone up in lockdown - but used ones or open boxes can be had on ebay for around $100 :-)

Hmm, looks like they might have been discontinued - even ebay prices are stupidly high.  

It will print pretty well out of the box (no actual assembling required). But really requires a little tweaking for best performance. 

Mine is currently back to 0.4mm nozzle aftre a brief period with a 0.25. 
But back pressure is too much and the extruder needs to be moved to halfway up one of the support 'legs'.
Unfortunately while the 0.25 worked great for short items, it just jammed totally at about 40mm height. 
The extruder isn't great and the friction generated with the bowden tube and it's pathway - is ridiculous. 

But as a cheap introduction to the system - great little machine :-)
And lots of things you can do to it for cheap !

Mine actually takes up NO desk space at all, as it sits directly on top of the he3d k200 :-)
In idle moments I've thought about making a really tiny delta to sit on top of the mini. 
But, probably not lol

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## AutoWiz

I wanted to get my hands on a Tevo Little Monster a while back. I though I would have had a blast with one of them. I can't believe a printer this big came with a 3.5" display. So here is a side by side comparison of the 2 screens. On the left is the one that came with the printer that will never get used and on the right is the BigTreeTech TFT70 V3.0.. 
 
I have drawn up this mount for the 7" touchscreen that I will share on thingiverse as soon as it is done printing and I verify it fits right..

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## curious aardvark

lol - I love the little 3.5 screen on the sapphire. 
But then I've never had a touchscreen on a 3d printer before :-)
plenty big enough for me. It's not like I'm watching youtube videos on it :-)

yeah the little monster is a decent machine. The whole suspended extruder business is fascinating. Most manufacturers use elasticised suspension cords and the extruder shakes about like it's got st vitus dance.

I've also seen one that used rigid rods and the extruder just mirrored the effector movements. Harder to do, but it would seem to make more sense.

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## AutoWiz

The touchscreen mount came out nice, btw. I am pleased with it..

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## AutoWiz

And I have been busy designing and printing mounts for the electronics. So far I have the Power supply, plug, switch, and the solid state relay and it's heatsink mounted to the frame.. 
 
I still have to print a tray to hold the mainboard and the mosfet for the extruder. I should be ready to start wiring this up soon..

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## AutoWiz

Well alright, we have finished mounting all the electronics. Everything is mounted rigid and strong. To match the printer's frame. All of the bolt holes are equally spaced at only 25mm apart which created a pretty cool look I think.. 

I like to run external control for all the heaters on my printers just to take the warmth of that current flow away from the mainboard. It might seem like overkill to some, but I have one printer with a mosquito hotend from Slice Engineering and it uses a 50 watt heater cartridge. This is a good place to have a mosfet with a heatsink attached and you wont get that on a mainboard. just a wider path on the board for that circuit in hopes it will dispel the heat on it's own. So this TronXY will run a SKR PRO 1.1 along with a Crydom solid state relay to send 120v to the bed heater and a smaller big tree tech external mosfet to drive the extruder's hotend. And this time I am trying for an even cleaner wiring job than I usually am good for.. 
 
I made covers to hide the wires so we should only have to look at the boards themselves.. 
 
Oh , and I dropped and shattered the 510x510mm creality ultrabase. And so I ordered another and here is my second Creality 510x510mm carbon silicone glass 400c working temp glass plate..

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## curious aardvark

I see why you need a glass bed. I was looking at things you can actually get filament off the other day - and you can get pei filament ! 
So - yup, that ain't going to come off a pei coated bed :-)

The beast is looking well sharp. 
I guess with the black and yellow colour scheme you should call it the bumble bee or the Wasp. 
Given that it's meant for car parts - got to be: Bumble Bee ! 

wow 50watt heater cartridge. I mean I have no idea what wattage a standard cartridge is - but 50 watts does seem like a lot ! 
My led floodlight that lights up the entire garden is only 30 watts :-)

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## AutoWiz

I am almost done. The printer is wired. I still have to program it. There is one last thing I am addressing on this printer before I begin to setup Marlin for it. These printers seem to have a problem with the bed dropping after the power gets shut off creating a need to re level the bed every time the power gets cycled. One can only imagine that any type of a resume after power failure feature would be lost in this type of a scenario. This problem is created by a combination of the weight of the Z axis along with the aggressive thread pitch on the lead screws. The fine pitch lead screws hold their position better but will slow down how fast Z can move. There are also these elaborate belt drive setups i have seen some even including a third threaded rod for the rear of the bed. But my approach is a little different. I have designed a mount for the top of each leadscrew to hold a few idler pulleys and hold one out a little ways from the lead screw. I am using lengths of the gt2 belts that came with the printer and i have some 3lb fishing weights coming from ebay. I am making a counterbalance to negate 6lbs worth of the bed's weight in hopes that the bed will stay wherever it is without power holding the stepper motors still. I will post up pictures as soon as I have weights. Ebay needs to hurry up.

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## curious aardvark

ingenious. 
Although how fast does the bed NEED to move ? 
The shallower threads would surely have been the simpler option ?

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## AutoWiz

Well the 8mmx1.25 threaded rods seem to limit the Z movement to 5 or so mm/s And when we are talking about a 600mm build height them fine threaded rods can bring about long homing times after big prints. This will let me keep the correct threaded rod size to match the build envelope I am working with. Also to take away from the lifting weight means I will be able to home faster just because the motors will see less load. Up to half the load in fact if I perfectly balance the bed and weights. The 3lb weights are not enough so I ordered 4lb weights. One on each side. I am pretty sure my Z axis weighs 10lbs or more. So it is a lot of load for them steppers to lift that kind of weight. And sure they are big motors and they can do it but that is just a bunch more current flowing out of the stepper drivers heating them up good and proper. With the 3lb weights installed here is my printer with the bed up.. 
 
Mid travel.. 
 
And all the way down.. 
 
 
For those interested the rig next to the printer can be seen in better detail here: My New Machine | General Conversation (superchargerforums.com)

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## AutoWiz

And we're alive..

 
And that tft70 is wired both ways fwiw. I got the incredibly long cut to length ribbon and ends and made custom ribbons to run that whole distance. So it can go into lcd12864 mode if I need it to.

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## Priusron

Your skills are amazing. I just read this thread and your black widow thread. Wow. I am looking at purchasing my first 3D printer. I am not afraid of building and customizing. I build drones and have to program them. I may need to get 2. One to build and one to print the parts I need. I guess I could build one and print all the parts, Hohenzollern disassemble and rebuild. I guess that is what you do, although you didn’t even build this one before you started modding it.

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## AutoWiz

Oh wow. Hey Thank You, buddy. Really. I was into making stuff and things long before 3d printing came about. For me in the old days, in the before time I had to use radio shack project boxes, a soldering iron and hot glue to create for my electronics projects. I made some incredible things in those days. And all of it can only be remembered as art. When I got a hold of the ability to rapid prototype like this with such precision, oh man. I had absolutely no experience going in with any type of 3d or cad design. It was all new to me, and I started with a digital slide caliper/micrometer and a protractor. I am still only good with the very basics of the 3d design software and I really only use autodesk 123d design which everybody shames me for today. I had to find youtube tutorials for everything I did. This right here is the youtube video that taught me how to create in a 3d space: Autodesk 123D Tutorial - YouTube  . Because I was always good with my hands and electronics I started with an ebay 3d printer that required a lot of assembly and by the time it was together I knew a lot about the machine I was using. There were a lot of times in the beginning for me where I had a laptop next to my pc with a tutorial on one while I was going through the motions in the slicer or with arduino(now atom). And that was back in 2016/2017. Today there is just so much more support out there as this tech tries to mature. If you are already good with electronics and working with your hands and it sounds like you are then you should have a lot of fun here. Godspeed and whatever you do, don't forget to share with the group. And MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!

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## AutoWiz

> I may need to get 2.


You should definitely get 2 if you really want to have fun with the modding. Because it will empower you to have a printer down and still be able to 3d print so if parts don't fit or other ideas get tossed in the mix after the rework starts you still have a path to producing parts instead of having to work with what you got or put it all back the way it was to print new parts. I have 4 printers today and am commonly fleshing out upgrades on multiple printers at the same time. But I always maintain at least one robot ready to run no matter what. Honestly if I were starting over today and I were to go for just 2 I think I might go for the Prusa mini. It is easy to assemble. fast to get up and printing. Prints in incredible quality. And is the perfect size for making most parts at 180*180*180 build envelope. Then I would hunt down the largest format CoreXY I could find. Which BTW is the TronXY X5SA 500. That would be a winning combination I think. All your tinkering will be worthwhile as it will be for large format capability. And you will always have something reliable to fall back on so you will never loose this awesome and powerful newfound ability.

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## AutoWiz

One thing I have noticed in the groups is all the TronXY build surfaces with the deep gouges through them. Apparently there is a thing about the stock firmware driving the plate into the nozzle and some convert the oem board to run on Marlin and others switch to BLTouch or other different sensor. Some use separate drivers for the Z motors and I would like to show off my better way. For Z homing on my 500 Pro I am using 2 of these old school dirt cheap in every possible way early i3 style endstop switches.. 

 

These switches get wired in series back to the Z min endstop signal and gnd pins. This way the circuit is completed only when both switches are closed together. I remove the metal tab from the microswitches for better repeatability and accuracy.. 

 

One on each side.. 

 

This design creates a hard stop right as the switch is closed so the carriage will not flex upwards and the motor will immediately begin to skip steps after the switch is triggered. This height of these stops is absolutely critical and puts the glass bed in a place where it can be adjusted to level and the right height with just the springs underneath it. As Z homes one side will bottom out and skip steps until both switches close and the bed is level.. 

 

And now setup like this we can home and print without probing the bed in 12 places and wasting 10 minutes of our lives at the start of each and every print. And as an added bonus it is now physically impossible for the nozzle and bed to do the touchy touchy thing. Which is good because I really like this Creality branded Ultrabase..

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## curious aardvark

physical endstops - yep :-)

So all we need now are the closed loop steppers and a heated enclosure :-)

So what's the thing you were watercooling ? 
A gaming pc presumably. 
You still on intel ?

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## AutoWiz

Ya I had so much fun building that. Anybody in their right mind would just not understand how much I bled out on that. I was inspired by a mainboard that had liquid cooling baked into the mainboard and it's BIOS. I can regulate the pump speed, fan speeds, and everything right from the UEFI BIOS and tune them with ramps that are temp vs. rpm. And so I spent over a grand just on the cooling system. The waterblock for the video card was over $200 and the matched rgb block for the 8700k cpu wasn't far behind it. But I got to bend up my own 16mm oversized PETG tubes. I got this kit that came with a silicone sleeve that i slid inside the tube then when I heated and bent it the silicone would hold the id similar to a mandrel bend. It runs a fully modded D5 pump that is capable of producing 3 bar. All of the fittings are RGB and there are so many wires. It was a fun project and the hardware specs are there. Intel i7-8700k, Nvidia 1080ti, 32gb ddr4 RGB ram, Asus ROG Maximus Hero X wifi mainboard, 1000watt PS, 2x samsung 960 PRO 1TB nvme ssd. 2x large radiators. And a bunch of 3d printed parts. I have a build thread for it right here: My New Machine | General Conversation (superchargerforums.com)

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## curious aardvark

a 1080 ti ?
And there's me thinking you'd - at the very least - be on a top end rtx and more likely one of the 30' series :-)

Although I have noticed that all the youtube video people all do their gaming on 4 or 8k screens. 
I honest;y don;t thin k we even have a 780p screen in the house, let alone 1080p and higher. 

The tv is standard hd, the biggest monitor in my workshop is only a 21.5 cheapest I could find - not even sure if that actually 780p either. 

I've been looking for a ryzen 5 3400g since november. 
What the hell has happened to the worlds supply of computer components ? 
Crap that would have been lucky to sell for £5 is now going for £100 - there are no mid to low end processors ANYWHERE, graphics cards are almost as bad. 

It's not like supplies are low. There are no supplies. It's like everyone stopped making chips last april and nobody's bothered starting up again. 

I'm literally - down to three old mini itx setups and an old am3 board - I can't build any new computers for clients for sensible money. 
And 95% of my builds are for normal everyday office systems.

The last system I built before christmas, I had to use a used chip and board - and things have gone steadily downhill since then. 
I lost track oif how often I stripped my own system for bits before christmas.

Anyway enough of my wingeing :-)

Show us some pics of ithe cubs all lit up !

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## AutoWiz

Well to be fair to me the build thread is dated back in 2018 and then the 1080ti was top dog. And they were also hard to come by in those days because it was at the peak of the crypto mining and for that reference Nvidia car I paid $1200. It held up the build And I got that one for cheap in that day. Here is the cube with all the covers on.. 

 

The RGB lights are just set to cycle and so it looks like a carnival in my pc, lol..

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## curious aardvark

very cool :-)

So you pulled the trigger on the loopy steppers yet ? 

Shame they wouldn't help with the big i3. 
That wobble at height was amazing !

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## AutoWiz

Oh wow CA have you seen the Bondtech LGX? Large Gear eXtruder. It is nice. I was watching this video from Teaching Tech on it: Bondtech LGX extruder guide & test for Prusa MK3 and Artillery3D X1 - YouTube

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## AutoWiz

So I am gonna get that LGX extruder along with a mosquito magnum and 0.8mm vanadium nozzle. But also I have been thinking about this frame and while the shape of a cube is cool I just dont like the bar across the top in front. I think if this were removed then access to the print surface would become a lot easier. This idea will require some changes be made first. Currently the belts run across the front of the frame just above the bar I seek to remove. And the motors are in the back. I plan to first unbolt the top square from the cube and turn it 180 degrees and bolt it back down. This will put the steppers for X and Y up front and the belts will cross over in the rear. Here is the current configuration still very close to the factory way.. 

 

After that is done I will still need to brace the vertical beams in a manner that keeps them positively located in their correct positions. Then the cross beam can come off. And I will have to make a new tft70 mount.

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## AutoWiz

Good question. To be honest I want to print parts that can live under the hood of car and so for that effort I needed to be able to print in the higher temps. And so I started to build for that. CA pointed out to me the cost of the high temp filaments. And took all the wind right out of my sails. I love 3d printers for their main intended purpose. Rapid Prototyping. And I rework 3d printers to hone this ability and skill. And to get to a good perfect part for a 3d printer or anything I do I might print that part 5, 10, or more times getting the part perfect. To enable this I run open source and the cheapest filaments I can find that I can tune my rigs to print decent. I typically spend ~$20 for a 1kg spool. For the PEEK I will pay $300 or more. This will greatly limit my capacity in how I use 3d printers. And so I am sticking with the PETG for now. 

But who knows what tomorrow will bring. And so I have a cube printer that can be walled off easily. I have the 400c bed. I am about to receive the 400c+ hotend (mosquito Magnum), If I choose to go down that road the door will always be open for it. But for now I'm gonna play where it is affordable to do so.

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## AutoWiz

Time to share the files I have created so far. I have been uploading files to thingiverse and here is a list of .stl files I have created for my TronXY 500 Pro..

TronXY X5SA 100mm Legs by AutoWiz - Thingiverse 

TronXY X5SA 500 Filament Spool Support Bracket by AutoWiz - Thingiverse 

TronXY X5SA Bondtech Filament Sensor Spacer by AutoWiz - Thingiverse 

TronXY X5SA 500 Lower Z Smooth Rod Stabilizer by AutoWiz - Thingiverse 

TronXY X5SA PRO Y and X end stops by AutoWiz - Thingiverse 

TronXY X5SA 500 Pro Aftermarket Electronics Mount by AutoWiz - Thingiverse

2020 2040 Extrusion Cable Management by AutoWiz - Thingiverse

TronXY X5SA PRO Bed Counterweight by AutoWiz - Thingiverse 

And that's as far as I have got in building and uploading. More to come. Especially now that I wanna re engineer the top of the frame.

----------


## spegelius

I recently found material that claims to withstand high temperatures, up to 160C. It's called Greentec Pro: https://www.extrudr.com/en/products/.../?material=134. Biodegradable, easy to print. I have couple of rolls and it truly easy to print, kinda like printing PLA. Also I tested a part in oven at 120C and although it did get bit softer, it didn't malform like PETG, ABS and PLA did.It's bit more expensive than PLA, but not bad.

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## curious aardvark

> Oh wow CA have you seen the Bondtech LGX? Large Gear eXtruder. It is nice. I was watching this video from Teaching Tech on it: Bondtech LGX extruder guide & test for Prusa MK3 and Artillery3D X1 - YouTube


lmao - you're like a kid in a toy shop :-)
That does look pretty good. 

I'd like to see one pushing flexible filament at speed. That's pretty much the only flaw the sapphire's bondtech has. 

It's snowing - in england in april ! You don't see that everyday :-)
lol 

Anyway. My current favourite is the bigtreetech all in one lightweight job. 
It'll run easily at 150mm/s with pla - which is the sapphire's normal speed. 
But it's also lightweight enough to go on a large delta. 
And I think it said 300c - which is all I really need for polycarbonate.
At the moment PET is working well for me as  tougher then pla and still stiff filament.
They had  a half price sale on amazon. 
£11.80 for 750gm - so I'[ve now got enough to last a year or two - probably lol

I do have commercial product I'm making with it. weighs around 3 grams. So I've got enough for over a thousand. 
And frankly if we sell that many, I'll probably upgrade the printer anyway :-)  

polycarbonate - fairly cheap and stronger and pretty decent heat deflection.
Needs around 260-280 to print well. 
I did manage to print a few small items at 260 on the sapphire. But she really wasn't happy. 
also PET - almost as hard as pla and way tougher. Heat deflection not that great - but it's great stuff.

@spegilius.
had a look at that site. They really don't want to say what it's made of do they :-) None of the data sheets mention it. 
My guess is that it's a type of hi-temp pla that doesn't need sintering to get the hi-temp resistance.
There are others around and at roughly the same price.

@autowiz - removing the front bracing of the cube doesn't sound like agood idea. 
The thing is almost big enough to climb into - how are youi not goign to have easy acess for removing models ? 

Surely that's what the kids are for - use them while they're still small enough to get in there :-)

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## AutoWiz

We need to hold a conversation on print speeds. My rigs can print fast. My extruders can move a lot of filament fast, ..... Until we begin to go bigger on the nozzle sizes and layer heights. And now we are pushing a lot more filament at a given speed. And I have to slow my rigs down so they can lay down all that filament. I am going after a mosquito magnum for my next hotend and I will see how much that helps. But we should post up nozzle size and layer heights when discussing print speed just like we should post up acceleration and jerk/junction deviation settings when bragging on print speeds. With thick layers and large diameter nozzles the filament moves so fast through the extruder it just doesn't have time to melt.

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## AutoWiz

Prusa has some good numbers for Prusament filaments run through their machines. I don't use their filaments and I am personally horrified at the thought of maxing out at 8mm3/s. 

In preparation for the frame changes I now plan to make I want to further brace the vertical beams so they can be more positively located without any upper support. For this effort I have made these triangles.. 

 

They are made from PETG and are 120mm X 120mm. These will compliment the inside corners I am already using and each one will be held in place with 8 m4x20 screws and t-slot nuts.. 

 

I need 4 of these for the front and rear and have 120mm X 80mm for the 2 sides as the smooth rails for Z limit how far out my corners can go. Here is one all bolted down and ready to go..

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## curious aardvark

yeah - well generally I'm using pla at 205c and with a 0.4mm nozzle and happily printing at a max of 150mm/s and on the same profile a minimum of 120mm/s with about 50% going down at 120mm/s
A surprising amount is done at 150, it's interesting watching the control panel as it tells you what speed it is currently using. And for most prints it's 90% either 120 or 150. Obviously first layer is a lot slower.
I did increase all the speed percentages for the various areas of the print. So My minimum is now 80% of max speed and 100% for everything else.  
sapphire speeds.JPG


These are clean prints, not injection moulding smooth - but as good as most of the prints I see online. 
That's mainly with the sapphire pro 2 corexy. 

The delta will print 0.4mm layers with a 0.5mm nozzle at 150mm/s - but it's pretty rough. 
If you pop the pla up to 215 you get good layer adhesion and I have made practical and strong prints at those settings.

And the difference between a 0.4 and 0.5 mm nozzle is both less than you think in terms of achievable detail and faster in terms of plastic laid down. 
And yes I have printed working 40mm iris boxes on the delat. But at about 50mm/s - not the totally awesome 150mm/s the sapphire will knock them out at. 
That's just the sheer precision of the corexy setup. 

Petg - I can print cleanly at 100mm/s - but generally go down to 75 for anything with any kind of details. 

PET - ah now that's an interesting one. 
I did 2 sets of prints with clear pet yesterday on identical settings.
One set was brittle as glass and just snapped. The other was bendy at the bit that broke on the other batch. 

So I think i need to up the temperature on that. 

I have no clue about cm3 per min. 
Mainly because I can easily visualise a speed per second but find it a lot harder to visualise cubic centimetres. 

The number of time sin 3d printing I've read a 'definite -this is how it is' statement on filament or printing speeds and then just plain proved it wrong, has got kind of silly over the years. 

It's all a balance between material viscosity, heating speed and extrusion speed. 

So far - with pla certainly - I have yet to find a limit that is imposed by the material and not by the machinery itself. 

I can't get simplify 3d to go faster than 200mm/s. No matter how high you set it, the numbers simply refuse to increase on the previews. 

I did get a useable 200mm/s out of the cheapo plywood i3. 
Made some perfectly functional trolley keys. 
Why it won't lt the sapphire go as fast I don't know. Hell I', even using the same basic profile :-)

At some point I need to start looking at larger nozzle sizes (god knows I have enough of them). 
And at the 0.8mm and 1.00mm diameter point you start getting into tricky thermodynamic areas. 

Not just getting the material to temperature fast enough - but, far more importantly - cookling it down fast enougn to prevent the bead 'slumping' before it sets. 

As far as acceleration and jerk goes - I have never ever touched those on any printer, so they are either perfect as they come or just crap talked about on youtube :-)

My standard infill and perimeters are: 3 perimeters and 3 top and bottom layers with 15% infill. 
I've not noticed that changing those has any effect on speeds. 
 Obviously the top and bottom layers change when using thinner layers.

Also when i remember to change it, I set the movement speed the same as the porint speed. That reduces the start and stop effect other people seem to like. Keeping the head moving at the same speed reduces vibration and helps with layer placement and just gives you a much smoother print all round. 

maybe that's why I don't need to mess with acceleration and jerk. 
Basically it's logical.

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## AutoWiz

Ya I am noticing it is hard to even find settings for acceleration jerk or junction deviation in S3D. It is a thing in other slicers. With the Big Red printer I am printing the PETG at 64mm/s. And it prints nice without a layer fan. I still need to design a part cooling fan mount for my BMG-M/Mosquito mount. Damn my laziness. I am not usually a procrastinator but this will be my first fan duct design. Well I got the TronXY right behind it so I need to get on it. 

I think if I had a good layer fan I could raise the print temps higher and ultimately raise the print speed but as currently configured this is my sweet spot making my Big Red printer overbuilt to say the least. Well, that is a learning curve for me. My rig still prints in a much reduced frame of time because the thicker nozzle diameter and layer height drastically reduces the Gcode. And so while moving slower I still finish notably faster. The genuine HIWIN rails and high end extruder keep the resolution decreases from getting ugly. 

One weird trait to my current configuration is because of what the specific limiting factors are I can print at this speed. 64mm/s. on every move putting down filament. No reductions in speed anywhere. Not even for first layer. The Gecko Tek build surface is awesome for that. and my X and Y movement speeds are set to 120mm/s. Why are yours at 100? Isn't that supposed to be higher than the print speed?

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## AutoWiz

With all the lower corners in place I have turned the top square of the frame 180 degrees and then removed the front top bar.. 

 

Now I need to make some mounts for the X and Y motors as they would have mounted to the bar that I removed. And I have to figure out how I am going to remount the hotend carriage so it faces the front and lets the nozzle reach all the way to the rear of the bed. But this will be a lot easier to retrieve prints from. And clean the bed.

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## curious aardvark

> The physics of the thermal gradient across the heatblock is not exactly magical. There is definitely a sound physical basis for a limit imposed by heatflow.Travel and print speed settings aren't the highest priority from an acceleration and jerk perspective. Turning corners is the main concern. Your printhead speed drops to 0 every time it changes direction on solid infill, or goes around a 90º corner.


Not that I've ever noticed. And i still watch prints a fair bit - after all these years, I still find the whole process fascinating. 
Given that your thermal gradient calculations are nonsense comnpared to my normal print speeds, somebody's got something wrong. 
Over the years the quality of even the cheapest pla has massively increased and whatever mysterious undisclosed additives are being used, have definitely improved viscosity and flow as well as the temperature gradient the material can be printed at . So maybe they 'calculations' still using old, redundant values. 

does the firmware make a difference to acceleration and jerk settings ? 
I think the corexy is on a customised version of marlin - but all the other machines use different firmwares. And I'm not a fan of marlin at all. 
I'm tempted to try smoothie ware on it - but, hey why change what isn't broke :-)


@autowiz lol The settings in that screen grab were actually for a 120mm/s print
Sometimes i remember to change travel speed - sometimes I don't. 
And with flexible filaments I always have every setting at 100% whatever the main speed is. 

I really need to do some proper temp and flex testing with pet. 
Those prints I did the other day were just weird, and I got to thinking - had I changed anything ? 
Honestly don't know. But one lot were a lot more brittle than pla and the other lot bent and flexed like nylon. Both sets looked identical. 

It's really only of any use to me if I can guarentee the 'tougher' version is the result of the print. 

have a look at my little 'turbo' nozzle setup I use on the delta. 
It's one 30 mm fan and it cools a 0.5mm wide bead at 0.4mm layer heights and 150mm/s 210c - without any problems. 
The entire thing weighs in nat around 10 grams

It uses a tapering, focussed nozzle with inlet holes. 
The theory being that the air going down the nozzle is faster and thus lower pressure and less dense than the air outside the nozzle, so extra air is sucked into the nozzle increasing the overall air flow. 

I've never seen anyone else use a similiar design. I also like that I can switch and change nozzles should I ever need to. 
Like many things I make - it's based on logic, mostly logic works :-)

It's the same principle that aircaft wings use to generate lift.
All I can say is that I get a lot more and better cooling than any other setup I've seen for the delta. And if it works, don't change it  :-)
Use a couple of focussed turbo nozzles  with a pair of biggish turbofans - and you should have some serious cooling effect: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2386628

Oh and these things were printed at 150mm/s and 0.4 layer height. rough but functional. It says 100mm on the page, but mostly i use 150 - I might have put the posh ones up for the photos:  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2597201

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## AutoWiz

I like that spool design CA.

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## AutoWiz

How much would you spend on your extruder? I had to wait a while while I paid down the credit cards and now I am ready to dig some new holes. So check out the shopping cart at Bondtech's website.. 

 

I can not wait to see how the magnum performs. I am so happy with my regular Mosquito with 0.6mm nozzle. I swear it is the best setup out there.

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## AutoWiz

Ya but the dragon uses that groove mount and the Mosquito bolts in place with a few screws. The big difference here is gonna be how many hands it takes to change a nozzle. With the mosquito it is always a one handed affair. No holding the hot hotblock careful not to hurt thermistor wires and all that happy B.S. Slice Engineering really has their stuff down.

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## AutoWiz

Ok so I will teach you this time. But then you need to calm down on trying to correct everybodys post. Just here in my threads OK?? So the dragon has 2 tiny little shit screws that are meant to hold a groove mount adapter or maybe be screwed directly to something but not withstanding any torsional loads. Or have you never held one in your hand and see these screws? So anyways, the Mosquito does have these screws to mount the hotend but it also mounts on these dowels so it can easily and comfortably handle torsional loads of installing and removing a nozzle. This is a proprietary Slice Engineering thing. Here is a view of the top of the mosquito hotend. The dowels are on the extruder and the dragon will not use the raised surfaces around where the screw holes are on a Bondtech extruder meant to work with a Slice Engineering hotend.. 



And here is a dragon with the groove mount removed.. 

 

And just to help you visualize the issue you are gonna run into doing like you suggested here is the mating surface of the LGX extruder..

 

Now ya sure maybe you can live with that little gap between the extruder and hotend and who knows maybe it won't become a point of jamming.  But it sure as hell won't be as strong as the part that used them dowels, wouldn't you say? And even if it all did work, it would just look out of place and weird, no? to have these mis matched parts that won't even mate up to each other properly? I mean is that how you build your printers? I hope not buddy.

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## AutoWiz

And this, I mean, this right here is pure beauty. The best the day has to offer. Oh I can't wait to get it.. 



50 watt heater cartridge and Slice engineering has done away with their high temp thermistors. They say that the overwhelming majority never use it and so their hotends can have better control resolution over temps with a 300c thermistor. Or something like that. So I get a 300c thermistor and only my other Mosquito has the high temp sensor that identifies as 68 in Marlin.

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## AutoWiz

Keeping it in perspective, You aren't using a dragon hotend on a Bondtech extruder without a groove mount adapter. And so with a Bondtech extruder you will use the Mosquito hotend for one handed nozzle changes.

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## AutoWiz

That sounds like an excellent way for you to break into the wonderous world of sharing files on Thingiverse. I love sharing files on Thingiverse and watching to see how many downloads each thing gets. Sometimes people even comment and leave you feedback on their experience with your design.

----------


## AutoWiz

Well that's great. But why are you posting that up in my build thread for my TronXY 500 Pro printer??? Why wouldn't you go start your own thread to brag on and post links to your doings?

----------


## AutoWiz

I never asked you to post any link or share anything you have ever done in my build thread. You need to read all that again.

----------


## AutoWiz

Back on task I finally got some real help with building my robot. Despite our language barrier he always knows the exact right places to chew on the fiber reinforced belts and when to attack the wires I am working with.. 

 

And he weighs 15 lbs. Good picture for size comparison. This printer is huge.

----------


## curious aardvark

you know there's real money in a machine that can print a working cat !

----------


## AutoWiz

I got to make the modification to the linear guide plates for Y. Because I am flipping the belts around so they cross over in the back I need to change the orientation of the pulleys and for this to happen new holes had to be drilled and tapped. I was able to hold one plate directly over the other to line up and mark my holes. And I drilled them holes in a drill press.. 

 

With the guides back on the rails for Y the very next thing I need to do is mount the stepper motors up front without the cross bar. So I am making this part that when perfected I will mirror and print for the other side. I might do the final part in black but for now here is a mockup of how my X and Y motors will now mount..

----------


## AutoWiz

So I am happy with the way this looks now. I think I will call this the WFO rework when I am done. The one problem now is what to do with that big screen. That tft70 is absolutely huge. And I want the printer to be no larger than its aluminum extrusion external dimensions. Just so it will fit through doors. And I don't want anything blocking the path I just opened up. 

Also I found a path forward to try to correct the ongoing ringing problems I can't seem to rectify across so many different printers and reworks(all with Marlin). And I think I found that solution in Klipper. Or at least I want to try it anyways. With Klipper I can attach an accelerometer to the printer and correctly tune accelerations. Klipper calls this process 'input shaper' and it seems to me to be the best way forward for me to chase this problem. But also Klipper does not like the tft's and with it my printer will have no onboard UI which fits well with the look I am trying to achieve here. I have a small handful of pi's floating around from other projects and fun. I have a zero, a pi 3 model B+, and a pi4 4gb. I will try the best pi first. Gotta do some rewiring before I ever used the rig but This right here is the way to go. big and open in the front. It will be a pleasure to remove things from this build surface..

----------


## curious aardvark

it did occur to me the other day that rather than a complete rebuild (which I know you enjoy). You could have simply made the top cross bar easy to remolve.
Lock it in place with a simple locking handle on each side. 

And that way you'd retain proper stability and also have easy walk in access. 
:-)
But then I thought - that would be way too easy lol

----------


## AutoWiz

That is a great idea CA. But you are right that would be too easy. Hey look what FEDEX brought me today. I took the picture with the other one so they could be together. BMG-M with regular mosquito and 0.6mm vanadium nozzle. The new setup for the TronXY is a LGX with Mosquito Magnum and 0.8mm vanadium nozzle. OMG at the price of all this but my gosh is it a nice part to use. In every possible way.. 

 

I'm gonna have to make a bracket to mount it to the TronXY in a similar fashion as what I have done with the BMG-M.

----------


## curious aardvark

Okay I really have to post the 'difference between us' photo's at some point lol. 
There's you buying the latest all singing and dancing, extruder and there's me just having stripped an old mk8 out of my original flashforge creator - 'cos with a couple tiny bits of ptfe (which it already has), it will outperform the sapphire's current bondtech for flexible filaments and I doubt it will be any worse for harder filaments either :-)

Just got to design and print a mount for it and I'm good to go. lol

In the meantime a little epoxy putty has modified the existing bondtech to work really well with modern - stiffer then ninjaflex - tpu's.   
At some point I'll use some more putty and hopefully get it working with the really floppy stuff. 
Pretty much only because I still a roll of filaflex and a roll of original ninjaflex that i have never been able to use properly. Mainly because it's so bloody elastic and until last week my knp used rear mounted spools and the pull to get it into the extruder just stretched the soft stuff too much. It now has top mounted spool holders and_ (huh, okay I'm an idiot)_ would probably work - and I haven't tried yet ! 
lmao
Guess what I'm about to do lol

I think, to be justifying your approach, at some point, I want to see you printing at a true 100mm/s (at least) with a 0.8 or 1mm nozzle and at least 0.5mm layer heights.

If you can't beat my cobbled together machines and old school buck-store mods with your futuristic, state-of-the-art machines - it would be quite tragic.

----------


## AutoWiz

Ya futuristic and state of the art. My TronXY is advanced. Or it will be. One day. One sweet day. But not today. No not tomorrow, either. Very likely not this summer. But hopefully before my children grow up and give me grand children I will have completed the assembly of my TronXY X5SA 500 Pro. Mission creep has set in on removing that top bar. I had to redesign my motor mounts for X and Y as my original design flexed under load. My new design and also my frame braces I made all are using 45 degree angles because triangles are our friends. And now that it is together the 100mm tall legs i designed earlier are just out of place. They look small, are a different color as I could not find that same color again, and they are not at 45 degree angles. So I think I need to redraw some new legs so I can have my 45 degree angle and also maybe be a little bit taller than 100mm lift. Here is how my printer sits right now.. 

 

I am also thinking about mounting the tft70 in the middle on the lower beam in between the two supports leaned back towards the glass bed. And I still have to draw up a mount for that LGX with mosquito. And I still have to draw up a bunch of other parts. I am a little ways away from being ready. But I am doing something for it everyday no matter how small so the end will come. And then we will see who is better. If I have to use photoshop we will see who is better.

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## curious aardvark

removeable top cross-brace. 
You can even print it in yellow :-) 
Print on the bed at a diagonal and you can print longer than the gap is wide.
No amount of triangles will fully compensate for not joining two tall uprights at the top.

Make it tringular in cross section if you have to - toblerone:-) - but make a top brace.

Actually you could make an actual toblerone facsimile with either of the other two multi filament printers. 
:-)

Have you actually printed anything on the bumblebee yet ?

----------


## AutoWiz

Well I just hope the Tevo Black Widow community that shared your sentiment with my last build are paying close attention to this. All the translucent yellow and black PETG parts are being printed with the Tevo Black Widow a.k.a. Big Red. All the parts are strong, too as they are printed with a 0.6mm nozzle and either 0.3 or 0.4mm layer heights. And in PETG. And without a layer fan even. In the picture below the black corner was printed with 0.4mm layer height and the translucent yellow round support was printed with 0.3mm layer heights and it stands 300mm tall. All 4 of them printed flawless and I only had to print 4.. 

 

And there is no deformation in any of those prints. Because when we have a rigid gantry that is connected with linear rails the extruder is always riding the outside of a square. No matter where the Y may be. Or Z in the case of Big Red. But also what I find in practice is that as I go bigger on the nozzle and layer heights the printers movements need to slow down a touch not speed up.

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## AutoWiz

No I have not printed anything with this yet. It has powered on and I started to setup marlin but then the printer started loosing the uphill battle with my mania. It's a hopeless war, TBH. I mean Jesus, man I am reworking a printer I was reworking on the initial assembly. It is very satisfying for me to just give into it. But the printer just gets farter and farther from completion as I realize new ideas before I finish fleshing out the old ones. Really that just saves me time from one rework to the next. lol.  

Anyways so I need a layer fan on this big printer. And I found that Bondtech makes a layer fan for the LGX with Mosquito for the Artillery sidewinder X1. So I ordered that and a 40x20mm fan like the one used on the x1 and here is what I got.. 

 

Trippy right? It looks just like the x1 extruder setup.. 

 

I really like the part cooling fan duct made by a manufacturer over something somebody made and shared on thingiverse. I will use that or make my own if I have to but I am just so happy I found this from Bondtech.. 

 

I also have a BLTouch 3.1 to mount with this and I want to get some white LEDs shining down on that nozzle connected to the extruder fan power so they turn on when the extruder gets hot and is in use only. You guys know I am drawing all these parts in Autodesk 123d design, right?

----------


## curious aardvark

I use a similiar type duct on the rep clones. 
Okay for everyday cooling - but for large beads and thick layers you really need a focused nozzle blowing from each side of the print head. That stuff needs cooling fast. 

petg for structural parts ? 
Hmm. I find it really soft. 
If the parts don't  get hot, I'd always go for pla. It's  LOT more rigid and also has enough give to take pretty high stresses. 

Mind you for stuff that needs to be both tough and rigid - PET is my current favourite.
Mainly because i can't afford ninjatek armadillo. 
That stuff rocks !

Just don't see the appeal of pet-g for non-thermo purposes. 

I did make a garbage gobbler cover out of pet-g and that gets the boiling water from veggies and pasta poured straight over it. 
Holding up really well. I'd previously gone through 2 pla ones. 

But for a bracket on a 3d printer - always pla. 

And yeah, I did spot the fact that the carriage is always on a square. 
But that square also relies on the end supports to keep the linear tracks level. 
So any independant movement of the uprights will throw little inconsistencies into the print.

But you know: a removeable giant toblerone bar - come on, it's what the mumu was designed for !

We really need to get you another hobby - one that needs lots of big 3d printed things. 
that way you might actually finish this beast and start using it ! :-)

Ask the kids - they probably have ideas for big things you can print for them :-)

----------


## AutoWiz

Well print a PETG cup and then print the same cup out of PLA. fill both cups and you tell me which holds water. Then take both cups and throw them at the ground as hard as you can and you tell me which one broke at the layers and which broke right through the layers. With PLA we have to try to get the filament to stay stuck to the bed, PETG on the other hand bonds so well it will break glass up from bed. PETG makes the more functional part. As far as rigidity goes there is a good reason all my printers are made from translucent colors. Hey have you tried a spool of translucent anything PETG?  

PLA vs PETG, what is best? — 3D Printz Ltd

----------


## AutoWiz

Well CA one big thing I want to make is bigger feet/legs so the printer can stand up taller without being on a table. Currently the feet/legs under it are 100mm and I am right now trying to print some that are the max dimensions of my Big Red printer. Just on the X but to keep my angles at 45 degrees max dimensions of my legs can only be the smallest axis. So I am replacing the 100mm tall legs with 240mm tall legs. Look how this fills the 400x250 build plate.. 

 

But I think after the 500x500x600 build envelope is ready to go I might make some really tall legs. But that is all for later. Right now those 240mm tall legs are gonna take 21hrs each to print with a 0.6mm nozzle and 0.4mm layer heights with PETG. So I have the next 84 hours to kill redesigning the screen mount. Here is where I want to put the tft70..

----------


## Martin_au

Be worth seeing if there's any wireless touchscreen options out there. Maybe even a standard tablet with octoprint. That would be ideal for such a machine.

----------


## AutoWiz

I am pretty sure this will be my first experience with Klipper. I ordered the big tft70 v3.0 before I had that thought and now it is a step above useless as I understand Klipper does not like the tft's. I say a step above because I think I can still use it as a 7" lcd12864 display. blah. but it's paid for and puts it to use so that's what this rig gets. I will mount a pi 4 behind the screen and hope to God I am not making a bad choice. I am not good with the python or the putty or the linux. But I really want to try input shaper and using an accelerometer mounted to my extruder to tune accelerations. All the videos I watch on the klipper they are using a tablet to communicate with the printer. I look forward to doing that. I have years spent all with Marlin. First with arduino, then with Atom, and recently just PlatformIO.

----------


## curious aardvark

if you had a crossbar - you could attach the screen to it :-)

As far as pla versus petg - I did an experiment a short while back. To compare tempered pla to untempered pla. 

Did a hollow cylinder with base and a square container. 
Did each at 2mm wall and 1.2 mm wall. 
Of the four un-tempered prints - only the 1.2mm cylinder was NOT watertight.
And I had to leave that overnight to see any leakage.
Surprised me. 

All the tempered parts are watertight. 
And all parts were printed at 0.3mm and 150mm/s
I haven't done the temperature tests yet. 

But I can say that none of my pla prints break at layer points. 
Even the 'aluminium' extrusion i designed and printed at 0.4mm and 150mm/s on the delta - only breaks with diagonal or uneven breaks.

The problem with that kind of article is that they are not using your printer or your settings or the brand of pla you use. 
And they are probably sponsored by someone makinging pet-g ;-)

The precision of the sapphire pro 2 has definitely improved the watertightnesss of my prints, to the extent that pretty much everything it prints is watertight. 
As to throwing it at the ground - pla prints usually bounce. My workshop floor is concrete - the only broken prints I get are the ones I forget to pick up and that the dog chews up :-)

For anything that needs added toughness I suck it up - timewise - and use PET. 
It'll print well at 70mm/s and 235c, to give a print tougher than pet-g and almost as rigid as pla.

But I don't actually see where being watertight and bouncy - has any bearing on a structural support for a 3d printer ? 
Surely the prime requirement would be hardness and rigidity. Which pet-g does not have. 

Also think how much time you'd save using pla :-)

----------


## AutoWiz

Well fwiw my Prusa MMU2S that I bought from Prusa Research for a little over $300 came to me printed in PETG. When I goto ebay to buy a NEMA 17 motor mount it is either ABS or PETG. I used PLA as long as I could not because it was the best filament but because it was the easiest to use. It was a placebo. But I use and very much work hard the parts I make. I have never been happier than since I started using PETG. Because I am now printing the same quality parts I used to buy for a premium. 

And here is Prusa Research telling you to print their parts with PETG if you are to print their parts: Original Prusa printable parts - Prusa3D - 3D Printers from Josef Pr?ša

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## Martin_au

There are two main rationales I am familar with for preferring PETG/ABS over PLA for 3D printed parts.

The first is temperature, but the second is creep (or cold flow). PLA generally deforms more when placed under long term stress.
E.g., http://thrinter.com/creep-abs-pla-petg-alloy-910/ 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33322445/

----------


## AutoWiz

Here is a cool video on the subject from CNC Kitchen:  The BEST 3D printing material? Comparing PLA, PETG & ASA (ABS) - feat. PRUSAMENT by Josef Prusa - YouTube

----------


## curious aardvark

> I gotta say at this point that almost every material from every  manufacturer will behave differently because even though it says PLA,  PETG or ASA on the box, there isn’t just one PLA, one PETG or one ASA.  Depending on manufacturer, the raw material, compositions and additives  deviate and that will influence printability as well as performance and  this is also why there are $10 PLAs as well as $50 PLAs on the market.  Also the printer, print setting and environment changes properties.


that's probably the most relevant point of the entire blog. 

the pet-g i have is actually creality own brand - so, yeah lol
But it's way too soft for any kind of practical useage where rigidity is important. 

And apart from the sink strainer where pla really did not like boiling water poured over it regulary. My pla prints have always outperfoirmed both abs and the pet-g I have. 
The pet-g sink strainer is working great - no obvious issues with the boiling water.

So for heat deflection - yep pet-g (although I have yet to try pet and boiling water). 
But most other things. nah :-)
I even used flexible pla in the pond pump couplings. 
After about 4 years of being nibbled and crapped on by fish - still look and function good as new. 

I've shifted to tpu these days. simply because it's improved a lot over the last few years and it's cheap and while it isn't any stronger than the flexible pla - it IS elastic, so really difficult to deform even really thin parts. 
And the stiffness is now where I like it. 

The cnc kitchen test came out with pla being stiffest and strongest - so best for structural parts.
It doesn't like being hit with a hammer or boiled alive - but apart from that - better than the other two all round. 

I've got a feeling I tried some asa a while back and it stank just like abs. Might give it another go. 
110c is good enough for a hot water meat mould - don't ask lol
I must have some samples in here somewhere, I'll have a look through the 'tct free filament archives'. 

But the interesting thing is that his printing temps are a lot higher than mine as well as his speeds being generally lower. 
Well he doesn't mention speeds - but the preset prusa settings do tend to print really slow (by my standards).

pla at 215c - nope, all the pla I've tried that hot really doesn't like it. 

So as previously mentioned - 3d printing is still as much an art as it is a science. 
But pla is still best for structural parts.

----------


## ThirdAngel

Hmm, good idea!

----------


## AutoWiz

The new mainboard has arrived. I now have 2 Octopus mainboards and 180mhz is to be the new standard for me but also the better wifi and fan voltages and onboard protections, etc., etc. This board is a jump from the SKR 1.4 Turbo and even the SKR PRO. It uses the same processor as the FYSETC S6 but it is in a BTT package. As good as we are gonna get outside of DUET. Or so I feel. But then I have a lot of little duckies.. 

 

I am going to move the mainboards location to the front center of the frame just under and behind the LCD in an effort to hide it a bit and keep the frame as open and empty looking as I can aside from the supports. It will be a foundation that will allow for all the non stop modifications I know this machine is going to endure. I just gotta get some more parts made for this effort.

----------


## AutoWiz

Alright well I am finally getting traction on getting the new legs printed out. Still using the cheap California filaments brand junk that keeps jamming. Just the smart filament sensor has done it's job a handful of times and saved each print several times and I am almost done printing out the last leg now. But before I get it mounted I have this rare opportunity to show the difference between the two legs both in height and reach across the horizontal beams. These legs will serve this printer so much better.. 

 

It is going to look cool when it is powered up and running with the X and Y steppers having their closed loop displays up front like they are. After the legs are done I am going to print connector pieces to tie them in together so it looks like the printer is sitting on a big 3d printed table or a stand.

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## AutoWiz

All the legs are printed and installed with hardware. The frame now sits 220mm off the floor. Each leg is held on with 13 m4x10mm screws and as many drop in T slot nuts. X 4 is a bunch of hardware just to get these legs on. But they are stable and rigid. And they are flush with the front and rear extrusion..

 

Depth is the potential minimum dimension of this TronXY X5SA 500 Pro. And it is so important to identify this and work around it. Just so this printer can move from one room to another without complete disassembly.

----------


## curious aardvark

looks like it can walk about by itself :-)

what does the machine weigh ?

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## AutoWiz

A lot. The weight of the frame plus about 10lbs or 5 rolls of the PETG filament. But then there is the bed. OMG is that bed heavy. It is the tronXY 500x500 2 pc aluminum heatbed but I have added the 450x450 silicone mains powered heater, a sheet of cork, and that 4mm thick 510x510 Creality Ultrabase. But that is good. I don't want weight on the gantry but on the frame is good and even on the bed is ok. It will help keep things from rocking around from the inertia created by the moving X and Y. Or so I hope. And I will keep that extruder and carriage as light as possible. 

I am really happy with the dual Z auto align and G34 command on the IDEX. So much so that I am really thinking about getting 2 more lead screws and steppers and running 4 motors for Z. The Octopus has 8 driver sockets. I can use 4 for z 2 for x and y 1 for e and still have an open socket for future expansion.

----------


## AutoWiz

With the legs done I think the next piece I want to work on is the DD extruder mount. Whilst ordering my LGX from Bondtech Dual Drive Extruders and Extrusion Upgrade Kits I came across this really cool part cooling fan duct that is a really good design and blows air on both sides of the part and uses a 4020 fan. It is made for the artillery sidewinder. I ordered it with the extruder and acquired the fan and then I used them on the IDEX conversion for a BMG-M extruder with Mosquito. I was really happy with how it all came out and so I hunted down those parts again and now I just have to copy my design over to the TronXY carriage.

----------


## AutoWiz

So because of the bed and frame dimensions if I mount the LGX extruder facing forward like I did with the IDEX then I will loose bed space. So I have chosen to mount the extruder on it's side so the nozzle can be tucked in closer to the carriage so it will be able to reach to the rear edge of the 510x510 Creality Ultrabase. The BL touch will mount just to the side of the part cooling fan and in front of the pancake stepper motor. Here is my design.. 

 

It is 20 minutes into printing out with a 0.4mm nozzle and at 0.3mm layer height on this rig: GEEETech i3 32bit Rework (3dprintboard.com)  a.k.a. Old Blue

----------


## AutoWiz

Well and so goes the thing about rapid prototyping. Sometimes the first time around isn't right. My V1 mount looks the part for sure but the part cooling fan is not in a happy place. It is a bit too low and a bit too far forward. Also the fan mount seems kinda flimsy and I can easily move the fan around while it is secured to the mount. So here is the V1 mockup.. 

 

And my V2 mount is printing out now.

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## curious aardvark

lol yeah, the constant desire to 'just nudge this bit over a few tenths of a mil' - does add to the time. 
But just think how absolutely incredibly amazing it is that we can even do this at all !

I don't think I'll ever lose the wonder of holding a solid thing in my hands that was just a thought, a few hours earlier. 

Just blows me away every single time :-)

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## AutoWiz

Ya buddy. I will never loose my interest in this. Or I don't think I will. It took 3 revisions to get that mount right. And any and all can freely go download it right here: TronXY X5SA LGX Mount by AutoWiz - Thingiverse

----------


## curious aardvark

pretty sure I still have the install files for 123d, I know i have a 'how to book' . 

Hav eto look it up - there's not much you can;t do with openscad - but really complicated parts can generate some extremely long scripts and I'm not the most organised script writer lol

----------


## AutoWiz

Ya I only learned the very basics in autodesk and when I try others like even tinkercad I have difficulty finding my way around and find it just easier to use the 123d design. I need to start playing with others until I find one I like or watch some youtube tutorials or something. 

Speaking of Youtube. I found this video from 12/2016 I made of my then new home made 3d printer with optical X and Y endstops. I know it is weird to see with a mechanical Z endstop switch. I wouldn't do that today.. 

My Home Made 3D Printer - YouTube 

It is those optical endstops that I am installing on this printer. I always liked them and for me they are unique to my home made printer so that is what I want to do here. So on the backside of the extruder I have mounted an optical sensor for the X min endstop and mounted a flag to the end of the gantry so it will trigger the sensor right as the nozzle hits the edge of that Creality Ultrabase.. 

 

And for Y there will be no min endstop. Just one at the max position at the rear of the frame..  

 

And for anybody that watched the first video this one is just 2 months later in 2/2017 and I had already got rid of that Z microswitch and was playing with ABL.. 

Auto bed leveling - YouTube

----------


## AutoWiz

Moving right along the screen is mounted along with the power switch. Front and center and out of the way no matter the bed, gantry, or carriage positions.. 

 

We still have to mount the power supply, SSR, UPS, power receptacle, smart filament sensor, filament spool, and cable chains before the wiring can begin. But we're getting there. And if anybody out there is looking for a mount for the BTT TFT70 V3.0 I shared the .stl file for it here: TFT70 v3 2040 extrusion mount by AutoWiz - Thingiverse

----------


## AutoWiz

I'm never gonna get this printer together. I have ordered 2 more big Z stepper motors and instead of getting 2 more T8x8 leadscrews I am getting a full set (4) T8x4 leadscrews with backlash nuts. They are a bit long at 700mm. I need 665mm so I will have to trim them down before install. But hopefully this will stop the bed from falling like it does when there the motors are off. The BTT Octopus has plenty of extra driver sockets available to give each corner of the bed it's own stepper motor.  

It had to be this way. As I stare at my frame and my design I can't help but notice all the weight of the heavy bed is put right in the center of the lower beam. Quite possible the weakest spot on the frame to put that kind of weight. This conversion will put each Z motor over the big legs I printed where there is great support and also directly over the feet(almost).  I will have to remove my little side corners and make some brackets to hold the stepper motors and some extensions for the Z carriage So I can mount them ant backlash nuts outside of the square of the carriage.. 

 

Can't wait to experience 4 motor Z auto align. This is gonna be epic. With the perfectly flat glass Ultrabase I will G34 and have the one true printing surface.

----------


## AutoWiz

So I'm not waiting for stuff to arrive in the mail. I have got all 4 motor mounts made and installed with the 2 motors I have. I can not install the leadscrews as I am changing to a different thread pitch so the ones I have will not be reused. I like how the side of the printer is gonna look without the leadscrew in the center.. 

 

I also got the motherboard tray made and installed. It mounts directly under the display and will disappear when standing in front of the printer. Guess I will work on mounting the power supply whilst I wait for shipping.

----------


## curious aardvark

SEPTEMBER 8, 2046 - NEWSFLASH*****NEWSFLASH****BRAINSNAP THE NEWS SERVICE THAT STREAMS STRAIGHT TO YOUR CEREBRAL CORTEX 
TODAY THE WORLD'S LONGEST 3D PRINTER BUILD WAS 'FINALLY FINISHED. 
BUILDER AUTOWIZ SAID IN A STATEMENT:_ 'I KNOW IT'S A COMPLETE ANTIQUE  NOW, BUT WITH THE FINAL ADDITION OF THE SUCTION HOPPER THAT EXTRACTS  MICRO PLASTIC FROM THE ATMOSPEHERE AND USES THAT TO MAKE THINGS. I HAVE  FINALLY FINISHED. 
IS THERE A MUSEUM OUT THERE WHO WOULD LIKE A PRISTINE, UNUSED, FDM 3D PRINTER FROM THE FIRST QUARTER OF THE 21ST CENTURY ? '_

HOWEVER, JUST 2 MINUTES LATER.....

_SORRY GUYS, FALSE ALARM, HAVE YOU SEEN THESE NEW ANTI GRAVITY PRINT  BEDS ? AND THERE'S THIS CONTROLLER BOARD THAT USES GENETICALLY MODIFIED  TARDIGRADES FOR THE FASTEST MOST DURABLE COMPUTATIONAL EXPERIENCE OUT  THERE. 
NOW WHERE DID i PUT MY HYPER SPANNER.....


_BRAINSNAP - ALL THE NEWS, ALL THE TIME, AT THE SPEED OF THOUGHT

----------


## curious aardvark

Also: 



Almost what you've ended up with :-)
Well i say 'ended'.......

----------


## AutoWiz

I do like the Voron 2.4. And I will continue to make all manner of excuses about why I am not gonna do that but the sad truth is the next round if HIWIN rails is gonna cost me a dearly. This printer is big and I have learned that there are these E2 series cars that have little oil reservoirs and are self oiling. You know if I buy anything else with the name HIWIN laser etched on it there will be a little oil reservoir attached. And I wish I could add these little reservoirs to cars I already have.. 



After I get everything else together on the next rework or the one after I will get the rails.

----------


## curious aardvark

you know that a tiny drop of oil placed on the rails will keep the things lubricated for about 6 months ? 
A reservoir in a bearing is just asking for leaks. 

I have no idea what make the rails are on the sapphire - but they're all you actually need :-)

I was hoping the whole: 'my slow printspeed is 250mms and my fast is 500mms' might have inspired you to actually consider USING your printer, at some point ;-)

----------


## AutoWiz

I am interested in the print speeds for sure. But not like everybody else. My prime directive in this hobby is to make parts. Functional parts. And for that I care about a type of filament I am using and also it's characteristics for the best performance out of a printed part. This forces print speed down on my list of priorities. 

So let me better explain my problem with high print speeds: 

*Printing Flow Rate


*When printing, the flow rate depends on your layer height, nozzle diameter and print speed.
_Flow Rate (mm^3/s) = (Extrusion Width)(mm)_ (Layer Height)(mm) _Print Speed (mm/s)_ _Extrusion Width is ~120% of nozzle diameter_
*For Example:* You have a 0.5 mm nozzle mounted and you are printing at 0.25mm layer height at a print speed of 30 mm/s.
_Extrusion Width = 0.6 mm = 1.2_ 0.5 _Flow Rate = 4.5 mm^3/s = 0.6_ 0.25 * 30 

So I'm saying with my 0.8mm vanadium nozzle and a modest 0.4mm layer height would bring me to a flowrate of 72 mm^3/s. And that is just at the slower 250mm/s. I will print with 0.5 and 0.6mm layer heights.

Fast printing movement speeds is for people who can't find an actual use for 3d printing. Or for people with too small of nozzles for their print volume that are trying to compensate with speed. Google says this about the PETG: 

Most PETG, for example prints well at a recommend rate of *8 mm3/s as compared to PLA at 8-15 mm3/s. Much of the time, neither linear speeds nor volumetric throughput matter when doing small prints. 

*

----------


## AutoWiz

I wasn't trying to yell or make bold statements, btw. Copied and pasted from the internet and that is how it came out. And to be completely honest I do not know if those numbers are with a magnum or volcano or super volcano or magnum+ or just a standard block and sock with a 30 or 40watt heater cartridge. They all have to impact the max potential feedrate, no? Just because of different sizes of the melt zones? Temp aside that is what matters. The bigger the melt zone the longer the filament will have to melt. That very fact challenges my last post.

----------


## curious aardvark

> My prime directive in this hobby is to make parts. Functional parts


No it's not, if it were you'd have been making stuff on the big beast midway through last year :-)
Your prime directive is to keep upgrading the printer until it's intelligent enough to think for itself and talk, at which point it will either take over the world or tell you to:_ 'stop building and for christs sake print something with me !'

_The thing about 3d printing is that most of what you read oin the net, generally turns out to be wrong. 

These days I just don't bother looking up whetjer something is supposed to work or not.
I just do it, and most of the time it works. 

As far as print speed goes, nobody actually knows what the chemical composition of most modern filament actually is. Manufacturers do not disclose formulas and - apparently - do not have to. 
So the only way you can really determine print speed is to just print something and keep increasong the speed till it no longer works. 

I find that red filamanets will universally print faster and cleaner than any other colour with white being fairly close behind. 
Yellow is alwasy slowest and blacks tend to depend on the brand. 
I've had some blacks that print fast and clean and others that just will string no matter what you do. 

The 'Toughest' pla is clear filament. doesn't print very fast as it's pretty viscous, but it's beautiful stuff to work with. 
Watched a fascinating video by angus the other day. he was making gears and testing their breaking strain. 
he ended up with a particular brand of pla pro plus (kinda thing). 
which maxxed out at around 16 newtons. With most perg breaking at around 6. 
And nylon not breaking but deforming to the point the gears don;t wort at around 11. 

But again different brands and colours of pla gave completely different results. 

So pretty much eevry flow rate calculation on the net is pointless. 
They tell you nothing. 

On the nozzle front - I think I'll have a play. 
I quite fancy trying some carbon fibre nylon. pparently it prints without much warping and is both tough and stiff. 
Which for some of the clay moulds I;m making at the moment - that are squashed together with the aid of a large rubber mallet) would be ideal. 

I've got hardened steel nozzles in 0.4 and 0.6
And a 0.8 copper nozzle. 

So might try them out.

_(some time later)_ 
bloody hell that nylon cf filament is bloody pricey. 
Have to see if i can score some at the tct next month. 
Damned if I;m paying £50 for something just to play with.

----------


## AutoWiz

Ya expensive filaments suck. There was a time I thought it would be cool to print at 300c or above. 

I really do like making parts. I like designing them. Then printing them and seeing how they fit and function and make corrections to my design. Doing exactly what I have been doing in these threads has taken me from not even knowing how to draw anything in a 3d space to making things like this. This is my design for a corner for my bed.. 

 

This will mount a T8 anti backlash nut just outside of each Z smooth rod.. 

 

The anti backlash nut will sit recessed inside and the bore passes through 15mm of plastic that will enclose the majority of the backlash nuts.. 

 

My design will slip over each corner of the bed's frame and then the smooth rod bearings will pass through the part and so will all of it's hardware.. 

 

I have only straight and 45 degree angles on my rigs. That is the design discipline I have been sticking to. I did put a few circles in an effort to create flare. So these pieces have a bunch of angles on the outside.. 

 

this design needs to be mirrored for 2 and 2 printed out just this way and I have completed my 4 Z leadscrew mod. I could print out someone else's design but I really love making my own. I might go after a fixed build plate and a raising gantry with belt drive for Z. But I will work it out on my own. 

That is really good to know about the colors having different printing characteristics. I will try to pay more attention to that. As soon as this is done I will order me some good quality PLA and print out some pretty stuff and some fast stuff. It's coming. I am almost there.

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## AutoWiz

Here is what that part looks like installed.. 

 

 

I am almost ready to start wiring. I just have to mount the smart filament sensor and the cable chain for the extruder. Then it is off to the races on electrical. This is really starting to look like one of my rigs..

----------


## AutoWiz

Also I have these cats that simply do not respect my stuff. The orange Tabby in the picture, Pumpkin is 15lbs and the Lynx Point Siamese, Noel is 13lbs. That's 28lbs on top of the bed testing my rig before I ever get to.. 

 

Even with all that weight the T8x4 leadscrews with the anti backlash nuts do not let the bed drop at all. I am happy with that.

----------


## AutoWiz

For anybody that sees this and is interested I have shared the files needed for this 4 Z leadscrew conversion on Thingiverse free for any and all right here:  TronXY X5SA 500 4 Z Leadscrew Mod by AutoWiz - Thingiverse

----------


## curious aardvark

I have noticed one potential issue. 
No not the cats lol
Although cat fur in the rail slots can't be good ;-)

The touchscreen mounted at floor level. 
Umm, why ? 

Doesn't that make it a pita to use the panel ? Given how tall the machine is, wouldn't mounting it along the top make a lot more sense ? 

Also given a housed full of cats, kids anf people - isn't it likely to get knocked - a lot - at that level. 

Just looks wrong to me and given how easy it would be to put it at the right level - why keep it so low ? 

Unless the printer is going to be placed on a table - but i understood it is to be freestanding on the floor - hence the massive legs.

Other than that - it's a true work of art :-)

----------


## curious aardvark

On another note. Just finishing up a phone mount for my tripod. 
Using pet-g on the delta. 
Gotta say, it's looking bang on. really clean print. 
The PET one got broke somewhow, think someone knocked it over and never mentioned it. 

So thought I'd go with petg. guessed (at this point, it's not really 'guessing') the numbers: 245 on the nozzle 65 on the bed and 60mm/s max speed, and 0.3mm layer height with a 0.5mm nozzle. 
Not a spider web in sight :-)

----------


## AutoWiz

Now that's funny right there. You are trying the PETG and I am trying the PLA+. I took your advice. I do like the way it prints. I got a spool in green and a spool in blue and I am going to try to reprint the 2 color world with my IDEX build again. I still will only use the PETG for my printers but I gotta start producing some good quality trinkets to show off or people are just gonna think I am spinning my wheels without ever getting anywhere with all the years of modding and junk. 

I am working on wiring this thing up and realized I do not have lights yet. I'm gonna do something different. I can always change it later but I wanna try these and see how they work and look first. Cold cathode uses very little electricity and is a vibrant light. I used to use these in my gaming PC's..

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## curious aardvark

> people are just gonna think I am spinning my wheels without ever getting anywhere with all the years of modding and junk.


Had never even crossed my mind ;-)
Lights, huh - clearly essential to a succesful print.....

And about that control panel ?

Still got to sort the stringing on the pet-g - but with the delta's bowden tube, not sure whether to go longer or shorter, or slower. 

Been printing at 0.25mm - and the prints look like they've come out of an sls setup. 
You get the same kind of semi-rough textured surface. 
Interesting stuff, and it sands and files well. 
20210919_132453.jpg

odd the gif doesn't work.

----------


## AutoWiz

> The touchscreen mounted at floor level.Umm, why ?Doesn't that make it a pita to use the panel ? Given how tall the machine is, wouldn't mounting it along the top make a lot more sense ?Also given a housed full of cats, kids anf people - isn't it likely to get knocked - a lot - at that level.Just looks wrong to me and given how easy it would be to put it at the right level - why keep it so low ?





> And about that control panel ?


 Because I wanted the big 7" low res touchscreen to have purpose and meaning. And with the screen and oversized power switch mounted where they are I can perform all of this printer's operations with my big toe.

----------


## curious aardvark

it's also at cat level and kid level. 
So, you know - not ideal.

----------


## AutoWiz

Dammit you are a genius CA. My kids all grew bored and left me hanging but maybe I can get my cats into 3d printing. They do always seem so interested in whatever I am doing. I gotta see if their toe beans will trigger a capacitive display.

----------


## curious aardvark

toes not so much - but inquisitive noses. probably :-)

It's a bright thing at cat head level, with slightly moving bits of the picture. 

All custom made to attract a curious animals attention. 

And midway through a 40 hour print.....

Were you to start making things, the kids might get re-interested lol ;-)

Also by kid level i meant, balls, feet, skateboards, abandoned bags, jackets etc.

----------


## AutoWiz

My cats wouldn't do me like that, CA. They are smart and sophisticated and we respect each other's stuff.

----------


## AutoWiz

Yes! Finally. It is here. The BTT Octopus Pro.. 

 

This board has a few notable improvements over the Octopus. It can support 60v power to the stepper motors. It also comes in 2 flavors. One with a slightly faster processor with a little less flash size and one with a slightly slower processor but 2x the flash size. The difference in speed is small 180mhz vs 168mhz. 12mhz difference for 2x or half as much flash size. We should be more focused on choosing the right flash size in selecting this board. 

This project took a step backwards as I removed the mainboard I was half way into wiring to use as a replacement for my IDEX. Now we can get back underway. Hopefully we will see the brightest Neo Pixel lights, yet. Out of my rigs, anyways.

----------


## AutoWiz

Sooooooo, Here's a thing. Marlin 2.0.9.1 does not seem to support the BTT Octopus Pro. How about that. 

The specific Pro I got doesn't even have the same processor as the Octopus and so I couldn't just use that. 

Also there is no option to setup the Pro as the default envs in platformio.ini Or to select it from the drop down menu on the left column when clicking on the alien head. It just ain't there. 

And so I will finish the wiring but I fear my quad Z coreXY project wont be able to run until after the next Marlin release. Which shouldn't be long, I am sure.

----------


## Martin_au

2.0.9.2 has fixes for the octopus. Might be enough to get the Pro working. I haven't had a look at what is fixed though. 
https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/releases

Edit: Nevermind. Doesn't look like it's enough.
Edit 2: Bugfix has support for Octopus Pro - https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Ma...c/pins/stm32f4

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## AutoWiz

Almost. But it is only for the Pro with the same processor as the Octopus. STM32F446ZET6.. 

 

My Pro is driven by STM32F429ZGT6.

----------


## curious aardvark

so maybe time to look at reprap firmware - 
isn't that one reason for the larger memory size on the new 
board ?

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## Martin_au

Just had another look. Looks like there is support for the STM32F429ZGT6, using the same pins as the old Octo board. Check out https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/pull/23008

It's not specifically mentioned in the stm32f4 folder, but is referenced in pins.h, where it sets up an environment for the F429 version.

----------


## AutoWiz

Ya if you could believe a moderator in the Marlin F.B. group posted a screenshot of that and when I asked the MODERATOR where he found that the only response I got was his ass. Awesome F.B. group that should make anyone else want to explore Klipper or Octoprint. TY and I will look for it. Also why are you saying 2.0.9.2? There was 2.0.8.2 then 2.0.9.1. Unless you know something else I don't? I am not calling you out but asking for clarification? It does make sense that there would need to be a new version after the mainboards release.

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## AutoWiz

> so maybe time to look at reprap firmware - isn't that one reason for the larger memory size on the new board ?


Have you used RepRap firmware? And do you like it? I want to try it. How difficult is it as compared to the marlin where I just have to uncomment things to apply them in the firmware?

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## Martin_au

2.0.9.2 is latest release (but I don’t think has support for the Octopus Pro) - https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/releases

Looks like it was released 25 days ago.

Got my attention too now. Bugfix version (at least) includes support for BTT’s tft35, so I won’t need to run the marlin 12864 emulator mode

----------


## FrankyMC

> Well I was hoping I was gonna slow down on the rate at which I have been bleeding out the monies on this hobby. But I guess that is just not in the cards. It has been pointed out to my ignorant self that the higher temp filaments in which I am wanting to print all want an enclosure to assist in maintaining an ambient temp and also a silicone bed that can handle the high extruder temps. Because I turned the bed sideways on my Big Red printer an enclosure for that would have to be absolutely huge and a separate structure built over the printer. For a coreXY I can just apply paneling to the sides of the cube. And so I am thinking about taking the mmu2s and maybe using it here and there on old blue(geeetech i3) then taking the 3 color mixing parts off of Printalicious and putting them on Big Red so that I can take the BondTech BMG-M extruder with Mosquito hotend and apply it to this: https://www.tronxyonline.com/Tronxy-...mm-p61067.html . Sounds like a lot of fun doesn't it? My current 3 color mixing printer, Printalicious, has a ugly wooden frame and my Creation Station would look awesome with Big Red on the left and the huge CoreXY on the right. Nothing but aluminum extrusion any way you look.


Hi and sorry for the reviving. Would you recommend this model finally? Or Tronxy have got the best option on price-quality ratio(I'm comparing with it)?Thanks in advance

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## Martin_au

The X5SA is a bit of a lucky dip. It's a decent frame (and indeed, that frame has been repurposed by several designs, such as the VzBot), with bottom of the barrel components and electronics. It's a printer that you should anticipate a need for upgrades.

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## AutoWiz

I wish i had gone this route and would strongly recommend this printer right here: https://voronkits.com/products/voron...t-newest-model And here is a video on that printer from a trusted name in the 3d printing community: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E0dM0ZdpRE

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## AutoWiz

I have a BTT UPS 24v installed on all of my printers. Battery backups suck because they have a finite amount of time allowed for a print to finish. Even a 3 day long print that just started hours ago can be saved in a power failure if only the BTT UPS 24v was installed.. 

 

On this printer I have mounted the UPS under the frame rail. Tucked away and out of sight it is always ready to save my prints whenever the power failure comes and without any big bulky or heavy battery backup sitting on the floor or next to a power outlet. Just this.. 

 

For anybody interested in the extrusion mount in the above picture it can be downloaded right here: BTT UPS 24v Extrusion Mount by AutoWiz - Thingiverse

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## AutoWiz

I had to take a break from my hobbies for a while but I am finally getting back to it. I really want to finish my huge CoreXY and it was almost done. I had it down to some wiring and firmware. But then life happened. Anyways there is a lot of dust on my zero mile and kinda pricey printer. I will work on that but for now I am sorry for the dusty pictures. I have finished my power supply, SSR, and power receptacle. They are all together on one side of the frame and wired appropriately..

 

The Meanwell is a 450watt 24v 1u power supply so it fits really nicely in compact places. The SSR is a CRYDOM and it is supposed to have in built zero cross despite not having a fifth pin. To go along with the SSR I have raised the fuse amperage in the power receptacle from 5a to 10a just so it wont pop the fuse when it is trying to heat the bed..

 

Just a couple more wires. I have the 2 endstops to connect to the mainboard along with the smart filament sensor and then i need to connect some ribbons and some wires for that tft70 and I am ready for the firmware. So close..

----------


## AutoWiz

And we are alive. I have Marlin 2.0.9.3 configured for it. This was very easy for me as I already have 2.0.9.1 configured for the Big Red IDEX with also with an Octopus board and running dual Z Auto Align. So the firmware is very close and that part of this went fast. I do still have a host of verifications and calibrations to go through before I get to a print but it is up and running enough for me to test the UI..  The Foot Input works perfectly! The icons are big enough on the 7" touchscreen that my big toe works just fine.

----------


## AutoWiz

The first thing I decided to print was the 3Dbenchy. But 200% scale. Because my nozzle is 2x the size at 0.8mm and I am printing at 2x the layer height at 0.4mm-0.6mm..  The benchy came out great. Of course. This is just a first thing I could think of to print. It will be the only benchy ever printed on this rig..  The part cooling fan is perfect. Blowing air directly where it should. And a lot of it, too. The G34 command works splendidly. Exactly as I had hoped for. I will make a video and upload it showing what it does and how it does it soon. But for now check out how nice this benchy came out for being printed with such a large nozzle and layer height..

----------


## AutoWiz



----------


## AutoWiz

Here is my take on active bed leveling with the Quad Z Auto Align feature in Marlin 2.0.9.3.. 

Quad Z Auto Align with G34 - YouTube

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## AutoWiz

This is PLA+ printed with a 0.8mm nozzle and 0.6mm layer height. The rocket is 574mm tall or 400% scale and the next one I do I will scale the Z to 600mm  and let the percentage fall wherever it will and I will get the full 600mm. But for now check out how this rocket came out..

----------


## AutoWiz

My coreXY printing - YouTube

----------


## AutoWiz

Well alright so my oversized coreXY build is done and it prints. I have printed a handful of things with it in PLA and PETG and I just know at some point here I will be happy with all this but for now we really need to do something about vibrations and inertia. The DD setup on the 500 Pro frame really wants to print super slow to get any kind of a decent print out of it. 

So the first thing I need to address is my 4 Z leadscrews. I left them open at the top and as the print grows the vibrations get worse from the increasing amount of unsupported leadscrew up top x4. So I made this simple part to hold the leadscrews. It uses a few pennies of the PETG, a single m4x10mm screw and m4 drop in T-slot nut. And it has a little deflection under light load so small amounts of runout on the leadscrew shouldn't impact the print quality..

----------


## AutoWiz

The other problem I need to address is the large cube. It just has a lot of flex to it when the hammer starts swinging. In both X and Y. On the sides of this printer I do not really get to put the oversized corner or triangle pieces in because of the quad Z setup. But I have another idea. I mist build a structural enclosure. Like the cardboard back we nail to the cheap furniture. It makes a square rigid. So I got some tinted plexiglass from Lowe's and ordered a whole mess of hardware from ebay and started printing out these pieces. Each one is 80mm tall and has 8 screws holding it to the frame and 4 screws holding the plexilgass inside a 40mm slot..

 

There are over 500 fasteners holding the 2 sides on. Here is the other side..

----------


## AutoWiz

I am almost done with the 3 sides of my enclosure that I wanted to make structural. I can not begin to describe how happy I am with the results of this. There was so much drilling and so many screws and this took time to complete but it was so worth it. The cube is now so rigid I have to really fine tune the adjustable rubber feet to keep it from rocking on the tile..  Also this pictures shows how my X5SA 500 Pro will fit through a door completely assembled. The frame is wider than it is deep. So in building I have only mounted things to the sides and not a mm in front or behind the core metal frame. It is a tight fit and in some places I might need to take a door off it's hinges but this large format printer will fit through a doorway without loosing a single calibration.

----------


## curious aardvark

very nice indeed ! 

so what's the biggest thing you can make ? 

You could probably print the main body of a pinball cabinet in 2 or 3 pieces :-)

Sooo, how fast can you run it ?

----------


## AutoWiz

So my actual print volume is 510mm X 480mm X 600mm. I can get Z to 610 or 612 but I need 10mm headroom for safe Z homing. And the DD setup cost me a little on Y. But I plan on getting that back when I convert to the HIWIN rails and cars. As far as how fast it can run, it is finally time to find out..

----------


## AutoWiz

Ok so my best time on printing this 'rocket for mega scaling' scaled to 600mm on Z is right around 2hrs and 20min including time for the bed and extruder heaters to warm from room temp and for the printer to home. My extruder is sliding along X and Y at 48 mm/s while printing with a 0.8mm nozzle at 0.6mm layer height. PETG filament is notorious for wanting to print slow and I am putting it down at a rate of 23.04 (mm)3/s or the filament is being pulled in at 9.58 mm/s. If we look at travel speed this machine doesn't look so hot but if we look at extruder flowrates this machine isn't doing too bad..  And that time is for perfect results, BTW. I can get it to print at faster speeds but with degradation in print quality. This is the limit of me getting excellent or the best quality this machine is capable of producing.

----------


## Martin_au

23mm3/s sounds about right for a Magnum with PETG. That's about 2.5 times higher than a standard E3D V6. 

If you want some giggles though, the CHT nozzle comes in 1.4 and 1.8mm variants.  :Big Grin:  I've only got a 1.2 vanadium and that is still hilarious to use. Such chonky layers.

----------


## AutoWiz

That actually sounds pretty cool. I might chase down a 1.2 vanadium nozzle. I can't wrap my brain around a nozzle diameter the same size as the filament's diameter.  

I think I made a mistake on the print speed limitation. My problems above this print speed is warpage in the print as the layers build and a terrible top to the rocket. I really think this is a failure of my part cooling fan the speed limitation I am currently at. This printer does have a big 4020 fan with a specific made duct from Bondtech. Very nice setup. But I have it maxing out at 50% and I think I can do a bit better if I let it go full speed. Although from what I have been watching on the speed run benchy videos is the part cooling fan seems to become these huge blowers on either sides of the bed. I will re test for speed with the fan at 100% and report back. 

Time to fire up the Pro Cube..

----------


## curious aardvark

My sapphire pro has two of those fans, one each side. 
And blows in a wide fan from both sides. 
I could improve it quite significant;y with a shaped duct each side, insted of the metal deflectors. 
But honrestly, with a 0.4mm nozzle, my default print speeds is 150mm/s at 0.3 layer height. And that's on a factory spec machine. 

But that rocket - damn for something that size, that is really shifting the plastic !
Very nice ! 

You know this means you could knock out a two part pinball cabinet in about 8 hours :-)
A few internal wooden batons for extra rigidity and you'd be good to go :-)

----------


## AutoWiz

The rocket prints single wall vase mode. I am having success turning up the fan speed from 50% to 100% on the 4020 fan with the specific duct from Bondtech. I am now able to print the rocket perfectly in 1hr 57min start to finish. Flawless. And that is including time to warm the heaters. I am gonna print it faster and faster and see how quick I can make it. 0.8mm nozzle dia. 0.6mm layers. 600mm build height. 

And I might have to make a pinball cabinet. Your build looks like a lot of fun.

----------


## curious aardvark

just one question. 

Why are you building a 1950's science fiction rocket fleet ? 

I need to know :-) 

The cabinet is a lot smaller than it looks. It's pretty weird. Sort of a reverse tardis. Looks bigger on the outside than it is oin the inside :-)

Total length is 1040mm, 460mm wide. 
400mm tall at the back and 300 at the front.

Being able to include all the holes for buttons in the print would save a lot of hassle. 
Drilling 24 & 32mm holes in plywood isn't that easy. 

And a printed arcade controller panel  would save a lot of messing about. particularly as you could include labes for the buttons. 
At the moment I just remember what they all do. :-)

But at some point, when I've made  a hole cutting device, I want to print an overlay that I'll laminate and glue on. 

I just addded volume control buttons to the panel, so I think it's finished. Can't think of anything else that might need to be added. 
The buttons will be connected to a usb souindcard, which I'll plug the speakers into. 
And that will give me volume control independnt of the windows software control. 
mainly because a lot of the arcade games have their own preset volume and nothing you set in windows has any effect :-)
And while my speakers were a mere £15 and are powered by a usb plug - damn they go loud !
Also great clarity. Bloody amazing for both the cost and power usage. 
Whether the actual cabinet is acting as a giant sounding box - I have no idea. 
But they are way way louder and clearer than they have any right to be.  

Now i know you wouldn't build anything as cheap and cheerful as I have :-)
But I have all the links to stuff I bought from aliexpress :-)

As well as what worked and what did not.

----------


## AutoWiz

> just one question. 
> 
> Why are you building a 1950's science fiction rocket fleet ? 
> 
> I need to know :-)


This is a big printer and that rocket is my new benchy. I am using it to tune my settings. Here is the last one I printed in 1hr 47min start to finish including time for the heaters to warm up.. 

 

The rocket for mega scaling can be downloaded right here: Single-Perimeter Rocket for Seamless Spiral Printing by mech-G - Thingiverse

----------


## curious aardvark

You couldn't just print a tall thin totem pole type thing ?So what are you doing with all the rockets ?

----------


## AutoWiz

Well I gave some of them away to anybody I knew that liked or wanted one. And that was nice. 

But then I realized they are about the same diameter as a pigskin and surprisingly lightweight. So now I just throw them at my children when I want their attention. Saves me from having to yell.

----------


## curious aardvark

well, it'd take a decent sized motor, but no reason you couldn't actually launch them :-)Given cape canaveral isn't launching at the moment. You could become the next tourist hotspot :-)I reckon a c or a d should get it airbourne !Had a look and you'd want a d or an e category engine :-)They'll lift 10 to 14 ounces.280 - 400.ish grams.You just need a cylindrical chamber in the base to load the motor, a clip to hold it in (easily made from  a paperclip), couple of side loops for a guidance rod, a length of slow canon fuse and a fast kid with a match :-)And Buck Rogers flies again !

----------


## AutoWiz

I can not do that at this point in my skill level with the 3d design software. If you can correct the model for me, I will print it and buy the motor and make it fly on HD video, upload it to youtube, and link it here. I scale it to 590mm on Z and before you scale it you need to remove 0.2mm from the bottom. There is a flaw in the model and when we scale it up it becomes noticeable and there are missed spots at the first layer or two so we need to just remove the slightest amount and we get a good print. I am not capable of even this. I know it is really far off-topic but check out the fun I was having with this Jeep Trackhawk I converted to run on the E85: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtZM4Sw72_E

----------


## curious aardvark

what ? 
I've seen all the bits you've made for your various printers, I'd say your design skills are better than mine. 

I've actually got a rocket model i did as part of an openscad demo/tutorial that even has offset fins to add a stabilising spin in flight. 

I can resize and modify that, no problem. 

Or bung the link to the stl you're using and I can have a go at modifying that as well :-)

Traditionally model rockets tops pops off and they drift gentl;y to earth on a parachute. 

I'm assuming we're just going to go for a full crash and burn approach to landing.
;-)

Guide rod needs to be.
Needs to be at least as tall as the rocket - preferable a little taller, also needs to be anchored. 
Maybe 4-5mm steel rod a metre long should do it. 
You can bang a foot or so into the ground. 

Last thing we want is the rocket to go off sideways and take someone out. 

With the angled fins, it ought to land nose first and shatter :-)
Or maybe not, pla is tough stuff.

----------


## curious aardvark

right. done a rocket like the one you print but with fines set to cause spin during flight. 

whats the actual height and main diameter of the one you print ? 
Think I've got the shape about right.

And I'll add some guides and a motor recess. 
base-rocket for autowiz.jpg

sideon-rocket for autowiz.jpg
topdown-rocket for autowiz.jpg

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## curious aardvark

Hmm have to reattach the other two pics

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## AutoWiz



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## AutoWiz

I'm trying to print this 200% scale Axolotl without a raft and having troubles getting some of the small bits to stick to the ultrabase. The blue guy printed out on my IDEX but with old filament and so he has the face acne. The big one I am trying to print with silk rainbow PLA..

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## AutoWiz

In case anybody was wondering this is my trick for cleaning the Ultrabase.. 

Cleaning my Ultrabase - YouTube

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