# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  New 12" user and I am LOST!

## tsteever

So, my first experience in 3D printing was with an Afinia printer at the school I teach at. It is a very small printer and works great out of the box. I was able to make some very nice parts that come out very finished in appearance. the top is very smooth. The success I had lead me to the Makerfarm and my desire to own a larger printer for myself.  Colin has been great and has emailed me frequently with answers to my many requests.

My trouble is, I cannot get this printer setup correctly. Here is what I have...

Makerfarm i3V Prussa 12" model
Rumba electronics
graphical LCD
Mac OS
Google Sketchup 8 to create models
Slic3r and configs from the build guide
pronterface


Here are my issues...

1) Cant connect to pronterface. I had trouble with the firmware and had to download the arduino ftdi drivers. I am able to get that to work in order to install firmware. When I startup pronterface, nothing appears in the port menu. Weird. I went back to the arduino and it now will not connect. I try various things and swap the cable out, with intermittent success. I cannot find a pattern. I reinstalled pronterface with the most current version and bingo, it worked. I had control of the printer, sent it g codes, etc... Now, just a day later and nothing! I connect and it gives me baud rate issues or it will just say connecting but never do anything. Sometimes the usbserial connections show, sometimes they don't! Which one do I use? tty?  

2) I cannot get the Z axis set right. In order to get a good first layer than is smooshed into the glass as pictured in the build guide I have to lower the Z endstop so much, that when i home the printer the nozzle smashes into the heatbed. I tried all of the steps in tutorials online without success. My first attempt was to align the z axis endstop using paper. I would lower the z by hitting auto home and adjust till it just holds the paper. If I hit autohome (using LCD) the z will raise and stop at a different point (higher) WHAT? if I immediately hit autohome again it will return to the spot I set. Happens like that repeatedly. Should hitting autohome return the z to the same spot every time? 

3)I followed Collins advice and just set the Z to be almost touching the bed using paper and leveled the bed first making sure the x carriage was level. I then ran a test print and looked at the first layer. The nozzle was about 1-2mm off the bed and just loosely spitting out filament.  It needed to be smooshed more so I stopped the print and lowered the endstop. Reprint. I did these steps until I was happy that the first layer was printing correctly. Now, when I hit autohome, the nozzle smashes into the bed. URRRRG.

4)  When I was able to print a part, it was horrible looking. I am using slicer and the configs provided in the build guide. The afinia printed parts that had very finished top surfaces. Very flat, like glass. The Makerfarm didn't print tops well at all. Very rough. 

I haven't the experience to diagnose these issues. I have spent countless hours surfing the net and understand half of what I read. I am not familiar with terminal and some of these suggestions are throwing terminal commands out which I am intimidated by. 

So, where do I start? HELP! I feel like I have made a terrible investment and should have gotten a more proprietary machine.

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## usarmyaircav

Hi tsteever, Welcome.  You came to the right place, I am sure there are folks who can help.  NOT sure how many use macs, and the folks using Rumba are not many but I think it will get figured out for you.  I have ramps and linux so not much help, but for one thing the paper thickness is the way to go for leveling.  I use the home or z home in pronterface, and have not really used the LCD for that, you could see if that gives you anything different.  As for your part, I have no idea what an afinia looks like, I will look it up, but I am sure it took tuning to get to the way it is printing now.  I am confident we will help you figure this out, and you will get TONS of support here.  These guys rock!

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## sniffle

These machines are meant for the tinkerer,  I also have a 12" printer it prints great now but it took some effort to get it there.

That being said I'll throw a few suggestions out there and a few questions.

What are you trying to print with ABS or PLA?

Ok here we go...

#1) try different USB ports.  If that doesnt work it could be a bad USB cable, It happens that they go bad sometimes quickly, as they are usually cheap chinese cables.  Beyond that i don't have a mac so i won't be much help.

#2 & #3) OK bed leveling... Manual bed leveling can be a major pain, and must be redone every so often when prints start getting off... when you do get it right you will know.  Before you level the bed you need to level the X-Carraige to the Z-Axis so that when you use the print head to level the bed you are using something level to level with.  To do this i use a set of digital calipers i got from lowes, and used the depth gauge to measure from inside one of the z-motor bolt heads to the top of the z nut trap on the X carriage, on both sides.  these values need to match

After you level the X-Carriage, I personally use a feeler gauge but others use paper, you want the paper to have resistance when you drag it under the nozzle.  It is generally suggested to go around twice and always start the rounds in the plastic spacer corner.  If you are adjusting using the Z-rods for height you aren't doing it correctly.  You must adjust fine tune Z height with the micro adjusting bolt for the Z endstop.  When you home the printer it should go to a position in the corner that looks the same as if it were about to start a print. 

What surface are you printing onto?  It must be a flat surface like glass and be secured using binder clips(if you are using window glass(2mm or 3mm from lowes ~$2.50 a sheet) i suggest using micro binder clips($1.50 or so for 70 at walmart)  they take up less bed space and you don't have to remove the wings on the 12" bed you shoudl use at least 5 per side to make sure the heated bed is held formly to the glass and is kept flat against the bed so that you adjustments are actually seen when you adjust the bed.  

4) Once you actually start printing parts part of the looks of the part come down to more calibration.  proper e-steps in the firmware are important, a good average is somewhere around 870-890.  Once that's set you can do micro calibration with your Extrusion Multiplier.  Sometimes it is also the Slicer that is used, If the extruded filament looked a little thin then try using Cura it tends to extrude a little thicker, and has less options so it is a little easier to learn on.  You will find that once you have the bed mechanically setup properly the slicer plays a really big roll in print quality.

Feel free to ask questions we will all help as much as we can.  I promise you that with some effort on your part we will get you printing well i promise.  



all of the bluish parts were printed on my 12" makerfarm printer using MakerGeeks Glow in the Dark ABS, we will get you there :-)

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## tsteever

Thanks!

I am using ABS for now as that is what I had used on the Afinia. The Afinia, by the way, needed no tinkering. We took it out of the box, made sure the bed was level and printed. They outline a procedure where you move the nozzle to a paper width away from the bed and set that as the nozzle height. My assumption is that is a Z-offset value? I will attach a pic of a Afinia printed part and a mother part I attempted to print on my Makerfarm. You can see a very noticeable difference int he top layer. Both printed with ABS.


For my surface, I am using glass from the hardware store and i spray it with the same hair spray Collin used in his vids.  

I regret buying the Rumba as I thought it would be an upgrade but it appears that since very few people use it I am at a disadvantage. 

As for the LCD movement, Collin told me not to use that as it can get the Z axis out of sync. I just can't figure out why it homes to a different z position when I hit autohome? SHouldn't it always stop when the endstop is activated?

My big thing is where can I get some pronterface help? Most of the time people are making suggestions they tell me to move something using pronterface, completely ignoring the fact that i cannot get it to work! I guess I shouldn't cram so much into one thread.

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## printbus

tsteever - another option for getting some timely help is seeing who might be around on an IRC channel set up for Makerfarm discussions. Participation varies, but there's usually a few people on board. We have found the IRC to be very helpful for rapid-fire Q&A from new people.  There is one user who frequents the IRC that I believe has been using pronterface on a Mac.

EDIT: Forgot the link to the thread discussing the IRC: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...rfarm-printers

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## sniffle

> Thanks!
> 
> I am using ABS for now as that is what I had used on the Afinia. The Afinia, by the way, needed no tinkering. We took it out of the box, made sure the bed was level and printed. They outline a procedure where you move the nozzle to a paper width away from the bed and set that as the nozzle height. My assumption is that is a Z-offset value? I will attach a pic of a Afinia printed part and a mother part I attempted to print on my Makerfarm. You can see a very noticeable difference int he top layer. Both printed with ABS.
> 
> 
> For my surface, I am using glass from the hardware store and i spray it with the same hair spray Collin used in his vids.  
> 
> I regret buying the Rumba as I thought it would be an upgrade but it appears that since very few people use it I am at a disadvantage. 
> 
> ...



no your fine we'll do our best to help, I have a rambo board and was the first on the forums to have one i think so i literally had to figure everything out on my own.  That being said it is entirely possible to get great prints but thats the difference between reprap and more closed source options.  I would suggest printing an auto leveling setup early on if you dont want to deal with bed leveling.  

As to you connection to the printer I would try different USB ports on the computer as well as a new cable


As far as the ABS i would suggest using a pretty high print bed temp around 120  especially if you don't have an enclosure, the slightest breeze can warp the print.

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## tsteever

Here are some pics...

Comparison of Afinia part on left and maker farm on Right. Both ABS and .4mm tip


Yuk! Blobs on side of print and the holes did not fit the printer even after I cleaned them out.


Nozzle height (end stop) set with paper. When it prints the nozzle is 1-2mm off the bed surface!


This is the skirt after setting the z end stop using paper


Blobs of material on the top of the print

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## tsteever

> no your fine we'll do our best to help, I have a rambo board and was the first on the forums to have one i think so i literally had to figure everything out on my own.  That being said it is entirely possible to get great prints but thats the difference between reprap and more closed source options.  I would suggest printing an auto leveling setup early on if you dont want to deal with bed leveling.  
> 
> As to you connection to the printer I would try different USB ports on the computer as well as a new cable
> 
> 
> As far as the ABS i would suggest using a pretty high print bed temp around 120  especially if you don't have an enclosure, the slightest breeze can warp the print.


The auto leveling is something I want to do but Collin told once setup correctly it shouldn't be needed. I can't even get it setup! Hopefully the Rumba is capable of auto leveling as every thing I read seems to be ramps. Wish I could do ABL, but I can't even print the parts!

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## sniffle

the abl makes life easier i have 2 under 2 i needed it

that looks like your esteps is way too high, i would lower your extrusion multiplier some to see if that thins out the filament some

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## printbus

> As for the LCD movement, Collin told me not to use that as it can get the Z axis out of sync. I just can't figure out why it homes to a different z position when I hit autohome? SHouldn't it always stop when the endstop is activated?


I've never heard of using AutoHome on the LCD causing the Z axis to get out of sync, and that makes little sense.  You are right - unless there are wiring shorts or other issues, the final position of the all axes after a home action is driven by the endstop switches.  

The MakerFarm printers are only equipped with endstop switches at the minimum positions.  There have been variations of Marlin around that have the inputs for both the minimum endstops and the maximum endstops enabled. In a few cases, there have been issues with the unconnected maximum endstop inputs floating to an active state and being detected by the electronics.  Whether that could be applicable to your case, IDK, but it'd be something we could help you look at.

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## printbus

Information on preventing issues with the unused maximum position endstop switches:

In the configuration.h file, look for the DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS definition. You want the line to look like the following, without any // preface:

#define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS

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## tsteever

Could you explain what this is exactly doing to the printer? Max endstops, seem to me like they would be the limits as the z travels up? Are there endstops in both directions? I thought the switches controlled the max travel. I can give it a shot but this seems like it may open doors for more troubles and over driving the system potentially.

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## sniffle

max endstops aren't used, we use min endstops and software to limit the max travel.  so the max endstops should app be disabled

edit: resources i have found to ensure you have the proper version of python and pyserial installed.  It is the sourcecode page for pronterface, it is about midway down the page. 

https://github.com/kliment/Printrun

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## printbus

> Could you explain what this is exactly doing to the printer? Max endstops, seem to me like they would be the limits as the z travels up? Are there endstops in both directions? I thought the switches controlled the max travel. I can give it a shot but this seems like it may open doors for more troubles and over driving the system potentially.


The issue is if the max endstops are enabled in the firmware but not present in the hardware.  I'm not sure that would explain any of your issues - but it is an easy thing to rule out.  

Having max endstops enabled but not in the hardware has messed up the reliability of the ABL process for some people. Another user just in the last couple of weeks had homing problems that were attributed to the max endstop issue.  Homing consists of 3 movements: first move the axis until the endstop closes, doing so at high speed.  Then back away from that position. Finally, reverse and move again until the endstop closes, but at a reduced speed likely in an attempt to be more precise at the axis final position.  In his case, homing would often just do the first movement and quit.  What we determined is that Marlin couldn't do the 2nd part that backed away from home since the hardware was falsely indicating it was already at the max endstop position.  Configuring Marlin to disable the max endstops solved his homing problems. 

So, I'd just start by making sure any issue with max endstops possibly being enabled in the firmware has been eliminated.  

Then after commanding the printer to home (from LCD vs Pronterface shouldn't matter), adjust bed leveling to the thickness of a piece of paper (0.1mm) between the nozzle and the glass. Many recommend doing this with the nozzle and bed set to the temperatures you'll print with.  If you think the homing process leads to the nozzle being pressed into the glass, readjust the Z endstop and repeat the homing before doing the bed leveling.  Repeat the homing and bed leveling a few times or as required, using either the LCD (only 0.1mm travel steps are allowed for Z), pronterface, or manually turning the Z-rods to raise Z a bit before each pass.  You're done with the endstop adjustment and the bed leveling when the nozzle gap remains consistent from pass to pass.  

I suggest not attempting to set a Z offset into the slicer to compensate for the nozzle gap, at least not initially.  If the homing process properly sets Z to the paper gap above the glass but your print starts with the nozzle raised 1-2mm, something must be telling the printer to raise the nozzle up.  Make sure the slicer isn't set for something inadvertent like start printing at layer nn or height zz.  

To confirm what your slicer is outputting, you can load your gcode file into a gcode viewer like gcode.ws (that's the URL for it).  Look at the layer by layer detail to see what the viewer says your print height is.  If the viewer shows the print starting at 1 or 2mm height, something is wrong in the slicer.  Feel free to post the gcode file for someone to provide an independent look at it. 

On at least the 20x4 character LCD displays, the LCD can also be helpful in that it shows the current Z height.  If the print does start at that 1 or 2mm gap above the bed, what is the printer LCD showing when this happens?  If it is showing 1 or 2mm, something is likely telling the printer to do that.  If it shows some fraction of a mm while the nozzle is actually way high, we have more work to do to figure out what is going on.  

For at least initial prints, only focus on what is happening with the skirt and the first few layers. The skirt should be applied evenly around the part.  If it isn't, there's no reason to continue the print. If this happens after the bed was verified to be level, something is mechanically drifting.  Are the eccentric spacers all adjusted so there's no play in either the Y bed or the X carriage?  

 Abort the print after a few layers and let the print cool so that you can remove it and look at the bottom surface of the print.  The first layer is critical - if it isn't laid right, the rest of the print can and likely will suffer.  The first layer needs to be printed so that the extrusion is squished onto the glass.  If you see any substantial gap between the extrusion lines on the first layer, the first layer isn't being printed properly.  Once the first layer is printing properly, then you can let the print complete and see how the rest of it goes.  

A few additional points - MakerFarm ships the printer kits with some plastic tubing to use as the connection between the Z motors and the threaded Z rods. Some people have ran into issues with these connections slipping.  As a minimum, it would be a good idea to add some zip ties around the tubing with the ties pulled as tight as you can get them.  Finally, it would be a good idea to check/calibrate your extruder before scrutinizing your print results.  I can't speak to the firmware you have, but the MakerFarm firmware builds at least used to lead to extrusion that was on the light side.

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## tsteever

Some more pics...


This is a pic of the part I printed using an afinia we have at school. No tuning required. I think the slicer they use is proprietary and does a better job, that is just my unexperienced observation. 

On the left in this is the part printed with slic3r. The knob next to it is the exact knob as above printed on the maker. Both in ABS and .4mm nozzle

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## sniffle

just comparing the two pictures your printer is printing a lot hotter than your school one.  not that fine tunning via pictures is the point right now, but dull prints mean a cooler extrude, shiny means a hotter extrude

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## tsteever

> max endstops aren't used, we use min endstops and software to limit the max travel.  so the max endstops should app be disabled
> 
> edit: resources i have found to ensure you have the proper version of python and pyserial installed.  It is the sourcecode page for pronterface, it is about midway down the page. 
> 
> https://github.com/kliment/Printrun


So I went to this page, wow. That is a lot of Greek to me! I went to the page and navigated about half way to find this...


*Mac OS X Lion*Ensure that the active Python is the system version. (brew uninstall python or other appropriate incantations)Download an install [wxPython2.8-osx-unicode] matching to your python version (most likely 2.7 on Lion, check with: python --version) from: http://wxpython.org/download.php#stable Known to work PythonWX: http://superb-sea2.dl.sourceforge.ne...rsal-py2.7.dmgDownload and unpack pyserial from http://pypi.python.org/packages/sour...ial-2.5.tar.gzIn a terminal, change to the folder you unzipped to, then type in: sudo python setup.py installRepeat 4. with http://http://pyglet.googlecode.com/...glet-1.1.4.zip
The tools will probably run just fine in 64bit on Lion, you don't need to mess with any of the 32bit settings. In case they don't, try 

export VERSIONER_PYTHON_PREFER_32_BIT=yes in a terminal before running Pronterface



Not sure what to do with this as I don't know how to use terminal.

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## tsteever

In the top pic of the knob (Afinia) I like how the surface is nice and uniform. The bottom pic (maker) is all snaggy and ugly. You can even see where it looks like the nozzle scrapped across the print it looks like. Are the retractions not setup right?

I am just using the config that Colin posted.

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## sniffle

I just finished printing these... It's very possible to get it to work and well be patient we'll get you there :-) just keep an open mind to learning

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## tsteever

Those are amazing! In one of the last emails from Colin, he stated that the nozzle will be below the glass level in some cases to get a good first layer print. I just can't accept that as true. There exists the possibility for damage in my mind.

What problem should I tackle first as I feel like I am running in too many directions first. 

Pronterface?
Z-Axis?
Filament calibration?

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## usarmyaircav

I know you are going off of what you have used before, but I am not sure it is fair to compare a Professional model that comes pre-assembled with proprietary software that costs what looks like $1900, vs a $600 build your own kit with free software.  They want you to use their filament, and print at - ABS filament is extruded at 260° Celsius to .15mm onto the bed.   I have never gone that high with my settings.  I would guess you could print at .15, I am sure your printer is not set at that for a default.  more like .2ish.

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## sniffle

without pronterface you can't truly calibrate the Z axis or Filament, i mean you can but it's a headache... for now i would work on trying to get your USB to recognize the printer, and manually level your Xcarraige to the frame so that it is level, which will make bed leveling easier in the future.  from there i would level the bed meticulously, and then calibrate e-steps of the extruder.

try reinstalling the mac drivers for the arduino, reinstalling the arduino software, try different USB ports on the mac, and try different cables.

that's a good start

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## beerdart

To me it looks like your slice settings are wacked. Here is a gcode if you want to try it. make sure your zHome is set to one sheet of paper. Also keep a finger on the power button "Just in Case" LOL. OK it wont let me upload due to size. OK try here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B410XJG4pOFAWTBLNTY2MGVZV2c/view?usp=sharing

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## tsteever

> So I went to this page, wow. That is a lot of Greek to me! I went to the page and navigated about half way to find this...
> 
> 
> *Mac OS X Lion*
> 
> 
> Ensure that the active Python is the system version. (brew uninstall python or other appropriate incantations)Download an install [wxPython2.8-osx-unicode] matching to your python version (most likely 2.7 on Lion, check with: python --version) from: http://wxpython.org/download.php#stable Known to work PythonWX: http://superb-sea2.dl.sourceforge.ne...rsal-py2.7.dmgDownload and unpack pyserial from http://pypi.python.org/packages/sour...ial-2.5.tar.gzIn a terminal, change to the folder you unzipped to, then type in: sudo python setup.py installRepeat 4. with http://http://pyglet.googlecode.com/...glet-1.1.4.zip
> The tools will probably run just fine in 64bit on Lion, you don't need to mess with any of the 32bit settings. In case they don't, try 
> 
> ...


Followed these steps and with the help of google i think i managed the python thing!

whats next?

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## sniffle

Well if all of your python stuff is up to date hopefully thats all that was needed to get it connected.

After that its reinstalling any arduino drivers you might need, trying different usb ports on the mac, and trying a new usb cable... After that i dont know... If you have a non mac computer or laptop laying around try setting it up and see if it recognizes the printer that will narrow the issue to strictly being the usb cable which if you try another and it still doesnt work you have then narrowed it down to being the board itselfs usb connection and that is grounds for colin to replace the board and he will hes good like that.

Basically what i am saying is, use the process of elimination to rule out any and all possible causes for the printer and computer to not communicate.  Once you do that you can with confidence tell colin everything you have done and there will be no doubt as to what the issue is. Hopefully... Because you will either eliminate all options to be the rumba board or you will eliminate all options to be your mac.  Either or you will k ow whats going wrong and can take steps to fix the problem.

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## tsteever

Mine looks like this in the config.h file.


// Disable max endstops for compatibility with endstop checking routine
#if defined(COREXY) && !defined(DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS)
  #define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
#endif

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## tsteever

Gonna follow the steps outlines in post #14 a bit closer. For now, the test code I generated has G1 Z0.350 F6000.000 listed. I am still learning but this is the first line with a z in it. Does this mean my first layer would be printing at .35 plus what ever height I have the endstop set at?

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## printbus

> Gonna follow the steps outlines in post #14 a bit closer. For now, the test code I generated has G1 Z0.350 F6000.000 listed. I am still learning but this is the first line with a z in it. Does this mean my first layer would be printing at .35 plus what ever height I have the endstop set at?


Yes.  You're likely using Slic3r as your slicer. It defaults to a first layer height of 0.35mm.

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## printbus

> ...the test code I generated has G1 Z0.350 F6000.000 listed.


Decoded, the line is instructing the printer to go to a Z of 0.35mm at a speed of 6000 mm/minute, or 100 mm/sec. The i3v's can only handle a Z feedrate of 1.5 or maybe 2 mm/sec, but the printer double-checks all the feedrates in the gcode commands and will automatically only go as fast as the firmware is programmed to with the DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE values in the configuration.h file.

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## usarmyaircav

> Yes.  You're likely using Slic3r as your slicer. It defaults to a first layer height of 0.35mm.


kevin, is there a better first layer hight than the .35mm?

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## printbus

> kevin, is there a better first layer hight than the .35mm?


We'll have to open the question up to others that have experimented with it.  The Slic3r INI files from MakerFarm had the first layer height at 0.35mm, and I just stuck with it.  When I migrated to Cura/Cura Engine, I ended up configuring it to match the first layer settings I had been using in Slic3r.  Simplify3D doesn't have a setting for an explicit first layer height, but it does have a percent adjustment you can apply to the first layer.  I've left S3D at the default first layer height setting at 90% of my normal 0.20mm layer height.  

I would imagine that within reason, slicers should be able to provide consistent first layer results across a range of first layer height/width settings by adjusting the extrusion flow and line spacing accordingly.

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## tsteever

I am going to try again as last night was a bust. Pronterface is working still...fingers crossed. I had to fiddle with he port and baud rate settings a bit as the first attempt gave me a baud rate error. I changed the baud rate, tried to connect and it failed. I then changed back to 250000 and tried again. This time it worked.

So, the big issue I am having is the first layers. I set the end stop using the following technique.

1)Heated everything up. I leveled the x carriage to the frame and then leveled the bed.
2) homed the bed using pronterface. lifted Z, moved to center and lowered z slowly and check how close it was to the glass.  It needed to go down so I adjusted endstop. 
3) homed again. moved z up and then to center. Checked with paper. Nope, still too high. I repeated this process till the nozzle was just grabbing the paper.
4) I loaded some code to the printer and ran it. I watched the skirt and first layer like a hawk and noticed that the ABS wasn't being smooshed. I stopped the print and adjusted the endstop. 
5) Repeated this process till I got a smooshed base. 

Once the print completed I looked at the bottom. There was some smooshing but the abs wasn't solid. There were gaps between the abs lines.

Also, the top was ...ugly. Not at all like what I have seen this printer is capable of. 

I am going to run my z procedure again and then measure the distance the nozzle is at in the first line of code. What are the commands that will tell me what the nozzle is at? I'd like to compare what the printer thinks is happening to what the measurement is. 

I still don't like how the endstop is behaving.

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## tsteever

never mind about the pronterface! Can't connect today!  I get this error.

Attempted to write invalid text to console, which could be due to an invalid baudrate

What the crap?

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## Cameron

set your baudrate to 250000

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## tsteever

It was. I tried the tty port @ 250000, the cu port at 250000, I tired it at every combination!  I googled it, again! Read so many different things I don't know hat I tried and haven't tried! Something is off. At least when I connect I am connected to the printer as I can see it blink the lights and the LCD connects. I also have choices in the port menu. I didn't always have that!  It is hit or miss it seems.

The consistent error I get is a baud rate error. Is there a way I can tell what the baud rate of my mac is? 

Update...it is connected finally. I don't know what I did. I read a post somewhere instructing the user to manually home the printer and then try it. I moved the bed to home and held the z end stop down. Click and rechecked and it did finally connect.

WHAT? I need to figure this out. Too many issues going on right now and the frustration level at setting this up is rising to high. I'm going for a run...

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## sniffle

OK, you have to realize that your using a mac and sadly you have to figure most of that out for yourself, but once your connected and printing we've got your back :-)

So relax and breathe, we're here to help... but try to stay calm and analytical, because getting frustrated wont do anything but make it harder to get it working right.  

Alright, now that you are connected to the printer, it's time to set you Z-height at the corner where the nylon spacer is.  Once you do that it's time to level the bed.

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## tsteever

Couldn't do it, the run that is. It's bugging me.  So I homed the z and then moved it up. I slowly moved it down .1 until it couldn't move any more as the printer says nope, you're are 0. I did a m119 command and the endstop says open! I hit the hone button and the nozzle gets pressed into the glass! I backed it up and did a m119 command after each move and it took .3mm before the trigger opened.It took a .7mm move just to get the paper out.

Do I need to redesign the endstop? Would an auto bed level help? I can't live with these inconsistencies as they can't be good for printing. Is there that much play in the endstop arm? They are the newer ones with the dollar on the end.

----------


## tsteever

I homed the bed, leveled it. Moved the nozzle to center and made sure that it is rubbing the paper and printed the 24mm hollow cube from the build guide.

Here are the results...


This is the top. I am not happy with the open spots. How do I solve this. Sides look good.


This is the bottom. To me, it doesn't look squished, I think I need to adjust the end stop a bit more. Let the nozzle go lower. Or, adjust the first layer height. 

Front to back measurement 


Height


Width

----------


## rhonal89

I believe slic3r leaves the top that way. When I first printed my cube it was the same way as your cube on top but worst button layer.  Just keep on working and you will be able to get it working correctly.

----------


## sniffle

edit:.... your printing... good :-) whats your infill on the cube?  if it is 0,  that's really not that bad of a bridge which is really hard to get just right

----------


## tsteever

.2, honeycomb, rectilinear

What about the base and the dimensions?

----------


## printbus

As sniffle said, really not all that bad of a first completed print.  And as rhonal89 said, slic3r sort of has a reputation for being light on the top layer - it's often easy to spot Slic3r prints because of that.  Is Colin still providing Slic3r v0.9.9?  (dumbfounded) You do have the option to increase the top layer extrusion... I think I was up to 300% before I moved away from Slic3r.  I've heard the very latest experimental rev on Slic3r has finally made some flow rate adjustments. 

Have you calibrated the extruder yet? Don't scrutinize the bottom layer, the top layer, or really much of anything until you do.  

The temperature of the build plate can make a big difference in how the first layer smooths out.  You've told us you're printing in ABS - what nozzle and bed temperatures? They can vary from printer to printer and filament to filament, but we can at least confirm whether you're in the right ballpark. 

Finally, this may not help with your USB woes, but it's probably safe to say that the USB interface on most of these printers is "delicate".  It's especially easy to get things messed up if you're trying to do multiple things with different software talking to the printer. My pitfall is typically trying to upload firmware from the Arduino IDE while I still have host software connected to the printer.  A fully robust recovery procedure typically entails closing the Arduino IDE, disconnecting the host software, closing the host software, unplugging the USB cable, sometimes turning off the printer and then back on, reconnecting the USB cable, and then restarting the software I was trying to use. In a few rare cases, I've had to log out/in or restart the laptop I use.  Again, this may not be helpful to you but sharing lessons learned.

----------


## tsteever

That was what I came here to comment on. I think I need to get the extruder calibrated first. So far I have been only using what Colin has supplied and recommended. 

I am using 250 for the abs temp
110 for the bed
.4mm hexagon hotend

Yes, I am using Slic3r v0.9.9 as that is what he supplied configs for and supports. I have no idea how to setup another slicer. I'd love to get prints even remotely close to the parts he supplies with the kit. All the advise I get from him, and he has been wonderfully supportive, it to make sure I am using the config he supplies. 

So, I will take a look and see if I can fine tune the extruder. Is that a firmware adjustment or a multiplier adjustment? I have honestly read so much on this I am confused which I am supposed to do. One I read says to make the change to the multiplier and create a new config. Another says to activate the eprom in the LCD and make the change there. Another says to adjust the config files. 

So, what is the best procedure?

----------


## printbus

> That was what I came here to comment on. I think I need to get the extruder calibrated first. So far I have been only using what Colin has supplied and recommended.


Colin is great, but you'll learn that some of his advice is, well, lacking at times. For example, the statement that you shouldn't do a auto home from the LCD is bunk. If you look at the Marlin software, all the LCD interface does is inject the very same G28 instruction into the command processor that would apply if the home was commanded by USB.  There is no reason for the LCD commanded home to be any different.




> I am using 250 for the abs temp, 110 for the bed, .4mm hexagon hotend


I personally don't do much with ABS so I'll leave this for others to confirm. Seems reasonable.  




> Yes, I am using Slic3r v0.9.9 as that is what he supplied configs for and supports. I have no idea how to setup another slicer. I'd love to get prints even remotely close to the parts he supplies with the kit. All the advise I get from him, and he has been wonderfully supportive, it to make sure I am using the config he supplies.


Well, then stick with v0.9.9 for now until you're comfortable trying something else.  Some people likely stick with it forever but the advice that you can't use anything else is misguided.  I will assure you - you will likely get to the point where you reprint the extruder parts just because your parts look better than those that came  from MakerFarm.  




> So, I will take a look and see if I can fine tune the extruder. Is that a firmware adjustment or a multiplier adjustment? I have honestly read so much on this I am confused which I am supposed to do. One I read says to make the change to the multiplier and create a new config. Another says to activate the eprom in the LCD and make the change there. Another says to adjust the config files. So, what is the best procedure?


"Best" is arguable.  Probably a good place to start if you haven't seen it is the sticky on it - http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...nd-Proportions. The different approaches each have their advantages/disadvantages.  Modifying the configuration.h file gets it burned into the firmware so you can't forget to change it manually, but you might have to modify firmware to revise it.  You can just tweak it at run time from the LCD without the EEPROM save, but you have to remember to do it after every time the printer is reset.  Doing it from the LCD along with saving it in EEPROM is a way to make the change stick in the printer without having to hassle with a firmware upload.

Hang in there.  There's a lot to absorb.  Take things a step at a time.  The frustrations, confusion, and what not you are experiencing are not all that unusual.

----------


## sniffle

feed test calibration and then implement that value in the config.h file, i'll then manually tune the extrusion multiplier if i need to.

As to the slicer software i would suggest staying with 0.9.9 until you are more comfirtable, then upgrade to other slicers like cura or the experimental versions of slicer, there is also simplify3d, kisslicer, repetier host... they all just generate a gcode file that you tell the printer to print but they all go about generating that code a different way, some are better than others at printing certain types of things certain ways... that being said most fothem are just programs you download and install.  Once you get used to settings they are all easy to use and setup.  

we'll get you there promise :-)

my printer was delivered i think mid december, i just stuck with it and figured things out, and now i'm happy with my prints, but want to make them better :-)

----------


## tsteever

So I can get in and change it on the EEPROM and save it there without messing with the arduino side of things? basically the same thing correct? 

My understanding is if you are using a different roll a lot you can setup a different config file with a extrusion multiplier and this can accomplish the same thing a EEPROM save can, just different for different rolls of filament.

----------


## printbus

> So I can get in and change it on the EEPROM and save it there without messing with the arduino side of things? basically the same thing correct?


Yes - that is correct.  On the LCD, setting CONTROL | MOTION | | Esteps/mm is exactly the same thing as changing the fourth constant in configuration.h DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT.  I ran my printer this way for several months, staying away from the Arduino side on purpose. You can keep doing that - you just have to remember that every time the printer logic is reset, it reverts back to what ever parameter it has been hardcoded to.  The in-between approach is that you allow EEPROM updates to be possible from the LCD.  Takes a firmware update to do that. But then once you have parameters set via the LCD the way you want them, you can store the parameters in to a non-volatile memory space on the MEGA2560 board. After every reset, Marlin will then use those parameters instead of the hardcoded firmware ones.  




> My understanding is if you are using a different roll a lot you can setup a different config file with a extrusion multiplier and this can accomplish the same thing a EEPROM save can, just different for different rolls of filament.


From the slicer perspective, yes.  What we're managing here is the volume of filament flowing onto the bed.  There are multiple configuration parameters that feed into that. In theory, you can adjust them all. First there's the "steps per unit". This defines the rate that the extruder stepper motor needs to rotate in order to push 1mm of filament into the hot end.  The planning math in Marlin calculates what length of filament it needs in order to obtain the extrusion output it wants.  There's essentially a gear ratio factor involved in this - the DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT in configuration.h or the CONTROL | MOTION | steps/mm factors on the LCD. If the gear ratio is wrong, more or less filament will be pushed than is expected.  As mentioned earlier, the MakerFarm firmware defaults seem to always be low for everyone who has reported calibration results here, with a symptom that the output extrusion will be on the light side.  This is because the filament isn't actually being pushed into the hot end at the linear rate that the Marlin firmware is assuming.  

Then in the slicer, there's the filament diameter.  Even though the linear rate of movement might have been corrected per the above, the amount of filament volume going into the hot end will vary if the filament diameter varies. If the slicer is configured for 1.75mm diameter filament and  you're actually using 1.68mm diameter filament, the slicer will actually be commanding less filament volume to be pushed into the hot end than it should, with again, light extrusion being a symptom.   Again, this is in the slicer.  Marlin firmware doesn't know or care what size filament you're using.  

Then there's the extrusion multiplier.  That basically tells the slicer that OK, regardless of any corrections made to the rate we're commanding the stepper motor to feed the filament and the diameter of the filament, apply yet another correction to how much filament is actually being extruded.  

Filament diameter and extrusion multiplier can be saved on a filament roll by filament roll basis, and many people do that.  

There are even more ways to modify the rate that filament is being extruded at print time, but I'm not going to go into them at this point since they'd likely add to your confusion.  

As a bottom line, all of these parameters can and will affect the volume rate that filament is extruded. Each just does it in a different way.  I'll stick my neck out and say there's no right or wrong way here - you pick how you want to do it and stick with it. I found that my steps per unit varies little, so I freeze that as part of firmware, rechecking the value every blue moon or so.  I configure the slicer for the filament diameter every time I change the filament.  I typically leave the extrusion multiplier at 1.0, likely mainly since I've never taken my calibration far enough to care about that additional detail - my prints seem good enough after setting the other two parameters.  In the odd cases where I'm in the middle of a print and I wish I was extruding a bit more or less, well, that can be tweaked from the LCD.

----------


## sniffle

I set my esteps to 888.7 as that seemed fairly average between all my rolls of filament, i usually set diameter and might tweak the multiplier a little if small parts tend to be a little thick or thin.

----------


## tsteever

Okay, I think I got it. So I measure the filament and figure out if I need to adjust the steps/mm up or down,

I my case, they needed to go up. I commanded it to push 100mm through and only got 97. 21. I upped up using the math in the video and got it very close. I adjusted those settings in the EEPROM. Now, those setting will remain changed every time I turn on the unit. Should I reset the firmware it will revery to the settings Colin provided. I should most likely save a modified version of the firmware. 

I think I have the extrusion calibrated, should I also do the same for the X,y, and Z?  The cube I printed earlier was large. I am guessing that the extrusion calibration would help that. 

I have some parts I want to print for my tricopter but the one I printed yesterday is too tight and not even close to fitting. That's why i want to get this thing tuned, I am itching to fly!

I think an ABS setup is in my future. Does that replace the Z endstop or are both used?

----------


## sniffle

It replaces it.  To help with tolerances you should look for and use an option in slic3r that says something about printing outside perimeters first.

----------


## tsteever

Oops, meant ABL.

----------


## tsteever

So while I learn about all this. The question I have about other slicers is, do I need to enter all the steps/mm and other movement data or does the firmware handle all that.  The slicer just says move so many mm and the firmware handles the conversion?

foe example, I watched a video on Kisslicer and the prints looks great. Wanted to give that a try. Then there's cura too.

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## printbus

> ...I adjusted those settings in the EEPROM. Now, those setting will remain changed every time I turn on the unit. Should I reset the firmware it will revery to the settings Colin provided. I should most likely save a modified version of the firmware.


 Your correction really wasn't that significant. I'm almost surprised.  When you get to the point you upload firmware with EEPROM settings enabled, there's an additional detail to be aware of. EEPROM settings take priority over firmware settings.  So, if you have tweaked settings and saved them in EEPROM, those will continue to be used even after the new firmware build is uploaded to the printer.  There's an additional couple of steps to force updating of the EEPROM contents after a firmware build; than can be addressed another day.




> I think I have the extrusion calibrated, should I also do the same for the X,y, and Z?  The cube I printed earlier was large. I am guessing that the extrusion calibration would help that.


 You could, and some people do. But those factors are basically driven by the mechanical design and shouldn't require adjusting.  The extruder one can since there are variables in how the hobbed bolt is actually grabbing the filament.  




> I have some parts I want to print for my tricopter but the one I printed yesterday is too tight and not even close to fitting. That's why i want to get this thing tuned, I am itching to fly!


 I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but this almost always a problem with FDM printing.  In addition to perhaps the printer mechanics being off, not all designs properly factor for extrusion width, and some slicers can be better than others with dimensioning results.  As sniffle suggested, printing the outer perimeter first sort of lets that perimeter take charge in holding back the inner ones.  If you print the outer perimeter last, it gets pushed up against the perimeter already there and has no where to go but outwards.  




> So while I learn about all this. The question I have about other slicers is, do I need to enter all the steps/mm and other movement data or does the firmware handle all that.  The slicer just says move so many mm and the firmware handles the conversion?


 Yes, that's pretty much it. The gcode commands tell the printer to move an axis some distance, and the rate at which it should move.  In that regard, the extruder is just considered another axis.  The printer takes care of all the details on how to accomplish those moves.  




> foe example, I watched a video on Kisslicer and the prints looks great. Wanted to give that a try. Then there's cura too.


 Slic3r has about a million updates out there beyond the v0.9.9 version you're using, so that is also an option. Just about any slicer can eventually give you credible prints as you figure them out.

----------


## printbus

You can also usually scale objects in the slicer - that may be an option to getting parts to fit. 

Thinking some more, I would not adjust the XYZ mechanics based on the single results you have. Print something larger for another comparison. For example, here's a large square - http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:38096.  That may not be a perfect model (I can't speak to the dimensional accuracy).  If both the small cube and the larger print are off by the same PERCENTAGE, yes adjusting the mechanics may be an option.  If they're both off by about the same AMOUNT, no, don't change the axis steps per mm. If you do in that case, the prints will be off for anything sized smaller/larger than your calibration print.

----------


## tsteever

Thanks. So I guess I am confused on the eeprom thing. Are there two places where the settings are stored?  I thought a firmware update would wipe the memory and sort of reset it. 

What is the procedure for restoring the firmware to a "Colin" state? 

Is that the load failsafe and restore memory functions?

----------


## sniffle

eeprom is a major headache and a lot of us disable it especially because with ABL you will find that if you update your settings for offsets etc, and if old offsets are saved to eeprom the eeprom will override your new settigns and just make life difficult, not to mention it can be confusing... 

basically if you plan to run and tune your printer from the display eeprom is great because you can save settings to the eeprom and they will always come back... but if you are using firmware uploads to modify things and not using the display it gets in the way.

----------


## tsteever

So far I haven't changed the firmware and have only done things (for calibration) to the EEPROM. My fear after reading your comments is that when I add an ABL I will be starting all over again. 

How can I migrate the changes I have made in the ERPROM to the firmware? That is to say, I know how to make changes to the firmware but how do I Erase the changes from the EEPROM?

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## sniffle

when you disable eeprom in the firmware it wont read and overwrite the firmware settings

----------


## tsteever

Thanks. Just wanting to stay on top of things. I was going to change the steps/mm in the firmware and I thought I new where is was, but I couldn't find it or I missed it. Are they defined in the config.h file?

----------


## sniffle

yes it is in the configuration.h file... gimme a sec to look it up and give you something to search with

edit:

here it is #defineDEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT  that is where the units are placed, the brackets after it are in the format of {X,Y,Z,E} with E being your extruder steps

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## printbus

Everything sniffle has said is correct.  I'll elaborate on your original question. Unfortunately, another lengthy answer is required to fully explain how the printers use memory.   

The ATMEGA2560 processor used in the MakerFarm printers contains three types of memory.  We'll describe them as flash, Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM), and Random Access Memory (RAM).

When a printer is up and running, it is executing the firmware code stored in the flash memory, using the RAM as workspace for various parameters, calculation results, and other variables.  Contents of the flash memory will stay the way it is until the flash memory is damaged or new firmware has been uploaded to it. Along with the executable firmware code, the flash memory also contains what is described as "factory defaults" for settings and parameters. Don't be confused by the label factory - it doesn't imply MakerFarm as the factory. Factory simply refers to the firmware build that was last uploaded to the printer. Being able to change settings and parameters in a firmware upload is one method of changing them.  

The Marlin firmware starts off by initializing the variable RAM space.  If EEPROM is disabled, it will fetch the factory default values from the firmware upload stored in flash memory.  If EEPROM is enabled, the data saved by the printer user to EEPROM will be used instead.  Regardless of the source, this iniitialization only occurs once as the firmware starts up. After that, the contents of the settings and parameters in the RAM space will continue to be used until the ATMEGA2560 is reset or otherwise restarted.  During the time the printer is up and running, many settings and parameters can be changed through either the LCD smartpanel or through gcode commands sent to the printer through host software.  When changed from either the LCD or gcode, the updated values will again continue to be used until the ATMEGA2560 is reset. Updating RAM with settings and parameters from the LCD or gcode a second method of changing them. 

Processors like the ATMEGA2560 are developed as general purpose processors - they aren't tailor designed for the 3D printer market.  EEPROM space is available in the generic processor design for products that have a need to store some number of user-settable parameters in a non-volatile way without the risk and hassle of revising the flash memory contents.  For example, in a clock design EEPROM might be used to store the daylight savings time mode, preventing the need for the user to re-enter the desired state every time the clock is restarted.  Applying the generic processor design to our 3D printers, Marlin provides the option to store the settings and parameters in the EEPROM space as well.  On command from either the LCD or receipt of the *M500* gcode instruction, Marlin firmware will take the current state of key settings and parameters in the variable RAM space and copy them into the EEPROM.  With Arduino, this is the only way to update the EEPROM contents.  Storing settings and parameters and settings in EEPROM is a third method of managing them.  

Again, when EEPROM is enabled, the settings and parameters stored there will be used by the printer instead of the "factory defaults" loaded with the firmware build in flash memory.  On command, however, again from the LCD or here on receipt of the *M502* gcode instruction, the RAM workspace will be loaded with the factory default settings and parameters.  As described earlier, these values will then be used until changed from the LCD or gcode, or the printer is reset/restarted.  The printer will again fetch the settings and parameters from EEPROM during the reset/restart.  

To "erase" the effect of the EEPROM settings, you can disable EEPROM. Marlin will no longer look to EEPROM for settings when it is disabled. The other option available is to send the printer an M502 gcode command followed by an M500 command. The M502 copies the factory default settings from flash to RAM, and M500 in turn copies them from RAM to EEPROM. Similar manipulation is also possible through the LCD.

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## tsteever

Thanks for the info. I will digest that.

In the meantime, I just ran a print and figured I would do some measurements.  From pronterface, I homed the machine, ran a m18 code and checked that the bed was level and ran a print. I paused the print as the skirt was printing and measured the height of the nozzle. It is at .53mm. Here is the Gcode. 

; generated by Slic3r 0.9.9 on 2015-02-08 at 11:44:36


; layer_height = 0.2
; perimeters = 3
; top_solid_layers = 3
; bottom_solid_layers = 3
; fill_density = 0.4
; perimeter_speed = 75
; infill_speed = 100
; travel_speed = 100
; nozzle_diameter = 0.4
; filament_diameter = 3
; extrusion_multiplier = .93
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.67mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; support material extrusion width = 0.67mm
; first layer extrusion width = 0.70mm


G21 ; set units to millimeters
M190 S110 ; wait for bed temperature to be reached
M104 S250 ; set temperature
; 12" i3v 3mm ABS for .40 Hexagon 4-5-14
G1 Z5 F50 ; lift nozzle
G28 ; home all axis


M109 S250 ; wait for temperature to be reached
G90 ; use absolute coordinates
G92 E0
M82 ; use absolute distances for extrusion
M106 S89
G1 F1800.000 E-1.00000
G92 E0
G1 Z0.350 F6000.000
G1 X134.600 Y134.330
G1 F1800.000 E1.00000
G1 X135.140 Y133.830 F1350.000 E1.02154
G1 X136.010 Y133.140 E1.05404
G1 X136.940 Y132.520 E1.08676
G1 X137.920 Y131.990 E1.11937
G1 X138.590 Y131.680 E1.14097
G1 X139.280 Y131.410 E1.16266
G1 X139.640 Y131.290 E1.17377
G1 X139.990 Y131.180 E1.18451
G1 X140.710 Y131.000 E1.20623
G1 X141.430 Y130.850 E1.22776
G1 X142.170 Y130.740 E1.24965
G1 X143.280 Y130.660 E1.28223
G1 X156.710 Y130.660 E1.67532
G1 X157.820 Y130.740 E1.70789
G1 X158.920 Y130.920 E1.74052
G1 X160.000 Y131.180 E1.77303
G1 X160.710 Y131.410 E1.79487
G1 X161.400 Y131.680 E1.81656
G1 X162.070 Y131.990 E1.83817
G1 X163.050 Y132.520 E1.87078

----------


## tsteever

Okay, I got that, Maybe my brain isn't as mushy as I thought!  So if I want to return the EEPROM to a "firmware" state I need to send a M502 gcode command followed by an M500 command? This will write what ever was in the firmware to the EEPROM.

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## printbus

> Okay, I got that, Maybe my brain isn't as mushy as I thought!  So if I want to return the EEPROM to a "firmware" state I need to send a M502 gcode command followed by an M500 command? This will write what ever was in the firmware to the EEPROM.


Yep. Yep again since the server requires everything to be at least 10 characters long.

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## tsteever

Do you see anything funky in the code that would attribute my printing to be too high from the bed? As I stated, I homed and then moved the nozzle by hand to make sure that everything was a paper height from the bed. This was at temp too.  When I ran the code it was too high.  

Secondly, I got the following error when I ran the print...

Print started at: 12:10:52
[ERROR] Failed to set power settings:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.pronsole", line 1173, in startcb
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.power", line 130, in powerset_print_start
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.power.osx", line 72, in inhibit_sleep_osx
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.power.osx", line 49, in AssertionCreateWithName
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.power.osx", line 40, in StringToCFString
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'kCFStringEncodingASCII'


[ERROR] Failed to set power settings:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.pronsole", line 1180, in endcb
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.power", line 134, in powerset_print_stop
  File "/Users/craigvanvliet/Desktop/PyInstaller-2.1/pronterface/build/pronterface/out00-PYZ.pyz/printrun.power.osx", line 79, in deinhibit_sleep_osx
AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'assertion_id'

----------


## printbus

> Do you see anything funky in the code that would attribute my printing to be too high from the bed? As I stated, I homed and then moved the nozzle by hand to make sure that everything was a paper height from the bed. This was at temp too.  When I ran the code it was too high.


No problems noted. The first Z movement in the gcode starts you out at 0.35mm, which is what you have the slicer set for.  How much different than that does the print appear to start at?

Someone else would have to address the pronterface/python issues.

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## tsteever

My print started at .53mm.

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## printbus

I think I'm going to bow out and see if someone else can help at this point. I haven't had issues with this. The 0.53mm doesn't seem that far off, since you've got the endstop set for paper or about 0.1mm from the bed, and the slicer is configured for the first layer to print 0.35mm above that, or 0.45mm.  

I know there's been discussion on whether or not the slicer first layer height should be set to equal the paper thickness, and some probably do. I never did. I never had a problem with how the first layer turned out in prints sliced in Slic3r or Cura with that 0.35mm layer height setting. I was either lucky or had fudged my way around any problem by adjusting the first layer extrusion width. I don't remember.

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## tsteever

So, I played with Cura a bit as I just wanna try out what options there are. I seemed almost too easy to get it setup. I thought there would be more to it. I generated some gcode and it looks similar to the slicer but not the same, obviously. I am wondering, could running this code be potentially harmful? That is to say, would it ask the printed to move in opposite directions?

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## sniffle

no, it will print just fine

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## tsteever

Tried Cura, liked it. I started a thread on that as I have some questions on the support it generates but overall I liked the print better than the maker generated code. 

I have another problem though. My printer is down for the count. I am really struggling with the inconsistent first layer quality and was inspecting the micro endstop when I noticed a bunch of ABS build up on the top of the hotend. I tried to take the fan off and it was not coming off! It has melted to the hotend and there is a bunch of ABS material up there. How could that have gotten up there?

Either I have a leak from the start or something else is happening. My theory is that in some of my prints the nozzle is touching the glass forcing the material to be squeezed out the top. Does this make sense and could it happen?

Well, I broke my thermistor so I have to get a new one. Man, it's weird, but I am happily frustrated with the process. Yeah, i am having troubles but I am enjoying it. Thanks again for all your help guys (Gals, don't really know!)

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## rhonal89

I can't tell you about your melting problem. But usually first bad layer means for me that the bed is not level correctly to the hotend. Also I see your hotend. Is that the cap that came with the hotend in the packing box If it is. I don't think that's was suppose to be install in the first place. Maybe that's what cause your fan mount to melt.

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## sniffle

> I can't tell you about your melting problem. But usually first bad layer means for me that the bed is not level correctly to the hotend. Also I see your hotend. Is that the cap that came with the hotend in the packing box If it is. I don't think that's was suppose to be install in the first place. Maybe that's what cause your fan mount to melt.



no that is a horrible fan shroud design, it always melts unless you cut out the bottom of it.  the boot is supposed to be there

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## gmay3

> no that is a horrible fan shroud design, it always melts unless you cut out the bottom of it.  the boot is supposed to be there


This. ^

Upgrade the clough42's improved hexagon cooling system as soon as you can but in the mean time, you should be able to use your existing burned shroud. I would suggest cutting the charred plastic back along this red line and reinstalling.

----------


## tsteever

> This. ^
> 
> Upgrade the clough42's improved hexagon cooling system as soon as you can


Parts ordered this morning. Going to install the ABL too. I just can't wrap my head around the z endstop madness I am having. Everytime I home the printer I get a different result! If I hit home, it will place the nozzle below the glass. I hit home again and it back up and stops. it never goes back down. I hit it again, different position! My understanding is the endstop sets the nozzle height. Is this not the case? Can you guys describe what your machines do when you hot the home button. This is in pronterface and via the LCD.

My thought this the switch is either faulty or just is very inaccurate. Is there something I can write into the Gcode manually to set my bed height manually and not let the machine handle it? 

For example, after manually setting the Z height and leveling the bed move the x and y axis to home manually and run this code at the beginning of the print...

G21        ;metric values
G90        ;absolute positioning
M82        ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107       ;start with the fan off
G92 Z0    ;Sets Z position as home position
G28 X0 Y0  ;move X/Y to min endstops
G28 Z0     ;move Z to min endstops
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed} ;move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0                  ;zero the extruded length
G1 F200 E3              ;extrude 3mm of feed stock
G92 E0                  ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F{travel_speed}
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

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## rhonal89

So what is the purpose of the hotend boot. I don't have it on mine. Should I install it.

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## bstag

You have a hot end leak. You need to rip apart clean it all out. and re tighten the part to the heater block while it is all hot. I have gone through this and a few others on this forum. It is not uncommon. In my build thread its mentioned. The how to put the hot end together video covers it for the most part just do it while it at printing temp.

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## bstag

> So what is the purpose of the hotend boot. I don't have it on mine. Should I install it.


They added it to the hotend package after the first versions. I know for me it keeps the temp sensor in place much better and reduces the temp drop that happens from the print cooling fan pointed at the hot end tip.

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## rhonal89

> They added it to the hotend package after the first versions. I know for me it keeps the temp sensor in place much better and reduces the temp drop that happens from the print cooling fan pointed at the hot end tip.


Thank You! For your explanation. I guess I'll be putting that on today. And also looking at your video as well.

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## bstag

> Thank You! For your explanation. I guess I'll be putting that on today. And also looking at your video as well.


not my video. It just shows the part where you tighten up the heater block to the cold zone.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stlrjY39l60

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## rhonal89

Do you level the printer hot or cold. It depends. Heatbed warps when hot. Maybe if you used the zipties provided they are not tie enough on the switch.

Found this post by gmay3 




> If you haven't seen these parts from Clough42, they are highly recommended as improvements on the stock endstops and use screws instead of zipties.
> 
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:321810





> Parts ordered this morning. Going to install the ABL too. I just can't wrap my head around the z endstop madness I am having. Everytime I home the printer I get a different result! If I hit home, it will place the nozzle below the glass. I hit home again and it back up and stops. it never goes back down. I hit it again, different position! My understanding is the endstop sets the nozzle height. Is this not the case? Can you guys describe what your machines do when you hot the home button. This is in pronterface and via the LCD.
> 
> My thought this the switch is either faulty or just is very inaccurate. Is there something I can write into the Gcode manually to set my bed height manually and not let the machine handle it? 
> 
> For example, after manually setting the Z height and leveling the bed move the x and y axis to home manually and run this code at the beginning of the print...
> 
> G21        ;metric values
> G90        ;absolute positioning
> M82        ;set extruder to absolute mode
> ...

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## printbus

> ...Maybe if you used the zipties provided they are not tie enough on the switch...


Definitely true.  Sometimes I get confused between the different people I'm helping in the threads, by PM, and now on IRC. If I didn't bring that up earlier in this thread, it was an oversight on my part.

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## tsteever

Did not use the zip ties. Saw that in the guide and kinda chuckled. Seemed like everything else was very well thought out and that was an afterthought. I will take a look at those parts and see if I should incorporate them into my machine. 

What about the code idea?

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## printbus

> What about the code idea?


For the gcode approach to work, you'd still need to be convinced that whatever problem you're having doesn't manifest itself during a print. For example, you'd need to know that there are no issues with mechanical slop in the x-carriage/extruder/hot end or issues in properly driving the Z motors or the print may suffer even if it starts properly.

There are some issues with the tentative gcode you listed - 
In your text, you mention manually homing X and Y, yet a G28 X0 Y0 command is shown.  Don't bother with the manual homing.If you are manually adjusting the nozzle gap for Z, don't include the G28 Z0 commandThe G1 Z15.0 will raise the x-carriage 15mm, presumably for the purpose of priming the extruder.  You need to return Z to 0 or the print will attempt to start at that 15mm height

I have a new question related to your original problem - where have you located the clips attaching the glass to the heat bed? I try to locate clips close to the corners, thereby helping to mechanically tie the glass to the corner adjustments. If you only have clips nearer the center of the heat bed, the levelness and Z orientation of the glass could shift slightly as changes in the heat bed temperature alter how flat it is.

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## tsteever

Clips in the corners. 

Thanks, I am still learning a lot about the code and really (if you can't tell) do not know what I am doing...yet.

I plan, was to manually set the Z axis myself cause every time I autohome the z axis is in a different spot. I am not exaggerating. Right now I have things tore apart for cleaning but my intention is to replace the Z endstop with a printed setup from thingiverse. Before tear down I hit autohome. The bed wend to the corner and the z descended to a level below the glass. Previously i had adjusted it to be a paper height from the glass. 

My glass is clipped at the corners and the home is actually off the glass (in case of the nozzle going below glass level). When I hit home and the machine was at zero I moved the extruder over to verify that the nozzle was at "paper height". I then hit home again and this time it descended below the glass level by almost .6mm (estimate). I immediately hit home again without moving anything and the z went up and stopped. It never descended down again. This time the axis was .4 above the glass! 

Every time the machine homes, it is at a different location. I cannot get consistent prints at all. My thought is the switch takes too much pressure, has too much play, or is simply faulty. I am going to replace it with a new switch once it arrives.

Going back to the nozzle rising thing. I notice this behavior a lot when the machine homes below the glass. I will hit home again and the Z will rise but not descent again. It is my understanding that homeming on the Z axis is a 3 part move. 

1) it depends at the home feedrate until the switch is hit
2) it will then rise up at home federate
3) it will descend again at homefeedrate/2

Where in the code can I change step 2? My thought is that due to the inaccurate switch that when it descends too far in step 1 that the rise is not enough to move the switch to an open state. I'd like to test that theory by changing this rise to a taller number and move the z slightly higher before making the 2nd higher resolution z home descent.

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## printbus

Others can jump in at any time, but before I provide any additional help  I want to know that the MAX endstops have been disabled.  As I said  before, leaving them enabled without actually having the MAX switches on  the printer can and sometimes does create homing problems.  The  symptoms are different, but I simply want to know that any issues with the unconnected/floating max endstop inputs  are out of the picture.




> Mine looks like this in the config.h file.
> 
> // Disable max endstops for compatibility with endstop checking routine
> #if defined(COREXY) && !defined(DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS)
>   #define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
> #endif


I believe I've quoted the last response regarding the max endstops.  The code in the quote block has nothing to do with how the max endstop settings are configured, since that code only applies if we have a COREXY printer. Look just above those lines in the configuration.h file. Remove the comment slashes off the first DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOP line so it looks like the following. I've included the same block of COREXY code for reference:



```
#define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS     
//#define DISABLE_MIN_ENDSTOPS

// Disable max endstops for compatibility with endstop checking routine
#if defined(COREXY) && !defined(DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS)
  #define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
#endif
```

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## tsteever

Okay, I modified the configuration.h file and it now looks like this...

#define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
//#define DISABLE_MIN_ENDSTOPS


// Disable max endstops for compatibility with endstop checking routine
#if defined(COREXY) && !defined(DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS)
  #define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
#endif

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## printbus

> ... It is my understanding that homeming on the Z axis is a 3 part move. 
> 
> 1) it descends at the home feedrate until the endstop switch contacts close
> 2) it will then retract up at home feed rate for a predetermined distance
> 3) it will descend again at homefeedrate/2 until the endstop switch contacts close again
> 
> Where in the code can I change step 2?


Yes, that is the homing sequence, although I've fixed some autocorrect errors and enhanced the words a bit.  The retract distance used in step 2 is easy to change - it is defined in the configuration_adv.h file.  Look for these lines:


```
//homing hits the endstop, then retracts by this distance, before it tries to slowly bump again:
#define X_HOME_RETRACT_MM 5
#define Y_HOME_RETRACT_MM 5
#define Z_HOME_RETRACT_MM 2
```

While you are in that file, consider increasing X and Y retract distances too. That has nothing to do with your troubles, but I changed mine to 10mm some time ago so that the X and Y homing doesn't seem to be just be a bounce. 
--------------

There does seem to be a problem in how Marlin is reading the state of your Z endstop switch.  This likely boils down to one of three things:  1) the switch is bad, 2) the wiring to the switch is bad, 3) there's a problem with the input pin for the Z min endstop switch in the AVR processor on the MEGA2560.  

Obtaining a replacement switch was a good idea.  

MakerFarm usually ships extra wires in the kits. While you wait on the switch, you could try running new wires between the switch you have and the connection on RAMPS.  That would at least confirm there isn't a frayed wire or some other issue involved.  

We could also make a firmware change to move what pin is used to sample the Z min endstop and try that while you wait on the switch.  

Finally, if you have a multimeter, we could connect it to the switch contacts and monitor what the switch is doing as you fiddle with the lever on it.  

Your call on any of these.

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## printbus

BTW - I remember now you saying you didn't use the zip ties to mount the Z endstop switch. Good. BUT!! Don't overtighten the small screws that mount the switch to the endstop bracket.  The switches are pretty delicate and can easily be distorted if the hardware is too tight.  Distorted switch = imprecise operation.

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## tsteever

No Zip ties. I used a dab of hot glue which works great. If I need to take it off I can pop it off and peel the glue off. My new parts did arrive so I am going to print some mounts up.

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## tsteever

Working my way through the e calibration and I am noticing some light white smoke/steam coming from the extruder. I have it set at 250 and hit it with a temp gun. It registered at 232 at the tip. I bumped up the temp to 260, still got the steam. I lowered the setting to 230 and I am getting 219.

What is the smoke? Am I too hot?

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## sniffle

If your not extrudi g possibly it coild also be water that the plastic has absorbed... 

All filament i know of absorbs moisture from the ambient air when left out.

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## printbus

Does it just seem to be coming from around the extruder?  Maybe you're just burning off some of the material left on the extruder from the melted shroud.   Have you tried wiping down the aluminum block and nozzle while hot with something like a paper towel?

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## tsteever

Coming out the nozzle, not around. It really does just look like steam.

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## Chadd

I am also having Z homing issues with the 12" that I put together 1-2 weeks ago. I have swapped the Z axis home switch around with one of the others and have everything mounted with screws. It is very frustrating to have to fight with the printer for 20 min to get the Z home position fixed every time  I want to print something. I have been very close to throwing the damn thing in the trash because of it. I also have the Rumba board so I am not sure if there is an issue with the Rumba or something else but I would like to get it figured out so I can actually enjoy using the printer instead of fighting with it.

I am beginning to think the issue is with the type of switches sent with the kit. For some reason he included micro switches with roller ends on them instead of standard lever ends. If you are homing off of a flat surface the roller switch would be fine IMO but on the Z axis you are using the tiny bolt as the homing surface so I think there are some inconsistencies related to that because depending on what part of the roller radius the bolt hits on it changes the home position. I have some standard micro switches on order to swap out the roller switch with. I hope that fixes the issue because at this point in time I don't really want to even use the printer because of it.




> Clips in the corners. 
> 
> Thanks, I am still learning a lot about the code and really (if you can't tell) do not know what I am doing...yet.
> 
> I plan, was to manually set the Z axis myself cause every time I autohome the z axis is in a different spot. I am not exaggerating. Right now I have things tore apart for cleaning but my intention is to replace the Z endstop with a printed setup from thingiverse. Before tear down I hit autohome. The bed wend to the corner and the z descended to a level below the glass. Previously i had adjusted it to be a paper height from the glass. 
> 
> My glass is clipped at the corners and the home is actually off the glass (in case of the nozzle going below glass level). When I hit home and the machine was at zero I moved the extruder over to verify that the nozzle was at "paper height". I then hit home again and this time it descended below the glass level by almost .6mm (estimate). I immediately hit home again without moving anything and the z went up and stopped. It never descended down again. This time the axis was .4 above the glass!

----------


## tsteever

> I am also having Z homing issues with the 12" that I put together 1-2 weeks ago. I have swapped the Z axis home switch around with one of the others and have everything mounted with screws. It is very frustrating to have to fight with the printer for 20 min to get the Z home position fixed every time  I want to print something. I have been very close to throwing the damn thing in the trash because of it. I also have the Rumba board so I am not sure if there is an issue with the Rumba or something else but I would like to get it figured out so I can actually enjoy using the printer instead of fighting with it.
> 
> I am beginning to think the issue is with the type of switches sent with the kit. For some reason he included micro switches with roller ends on them instead of standard lever ends. If you are homing off of a flat surface the roller switch would be fine IMO but on the Z axis you are using the tiny bolt as the homing surface so I think there are some inconsistencies related to that because depending on what part of the roller radius the bolt hits on it changes the home position. I have some standard micro switches on order to swap out the roller switch with. I hope that fixes the issue because at this point in time I don't really want to even use the printer because of it.


I am finally at a point where I can start to print some parts. No where near the quality of the Afinia or Ultimaker I have used before. Funny too as there should be no reason we can get the same prints out of this machine, on the inside they are all very similar. I think the Afinia has a superior slicer engine. The top layer prints on those look so good! My top layer looks like poop with a stick drug through it. Gotta play with the setting a bit more.

What helped me was the advice given here in this thread by the awesome forum members. Prints, Sniffle and countless others have kept me from trashing the machine. To start I would change the following in no particular order...

!. Raise height that the Z moves up when it home the second time. See Post #88
2. Change the speed at which this 2nd high-res homing move is done at. I found these settings in the config thread by printbus. There is a line in the code that sets the homing speed and divides it by a number. Increase that number until you are happy.
3. Do everything Printbus and Sniffle have told me to do, they know their stuff!

I am sure there is more but that should help. I can now get a good accurate home position set repeatedly. I will be changing the switch out at some point. I am going to give the Auto Bed Level a try. Can't hurt right?

----------


## tsteever

Now, about that top layer poopiness? Take a look at this pic. It is the top layer od a model printed on an Afina. How can we get this out of a Maker? The part on the left is the Afnia printed at their fine speed, .2 layer height, solid. The part on the right is one of my first prints. Take a look at the top layer on the maker part. See how the nozzle has drug through the top? On my most current prints these lines are even more pronounced. The Afinia part on the left is so nice to look at. Very finished. The parts just print very accurately.

I know it is a 1500 dollar machine with limited user input. But the parts and pieces that make it are so close to the maker. Cannot we get this level pf performance?

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## Chadd

My print quality is good when I am not screwing around with the homing issue. It is hard to say what the print quality issue is without actually seeing the part in hand. I am sure you posted it elsewhere in your thread but what are all your print settings for that part? Looks  to me like your nozzle may be dragging. One thing I had to do was to put a shim inbetween the hex hotend and the extruder base because the hot end would wiggle back and forth, especially when retracting to reduce nozzle drool.




> Now, about that top layer poopiness? Take a look at this pic. It is the top layer od a model printed on an Afina. How can we get this out of a Maker? The part on the left is the Afnia printed at their fine speed, .2 layer height, solid. The part on the right is one of my first prints. Take a look at the top layer on the maker part. See how the nozzle has drug through the top? On my most current prints these lines are even more pronounced. The Afinia part on the left is so nice to look at. Very finished. The parts just print very accurately.
> 
> I know it is a 1500 dollar machine with limited user input. But the parts and pieces that make it are so close to the maker. Cannot we get this level pf performance?

----------


## tsteever

Print setting for which part? The Afinia is very limited on what you can choose. I need to do some digging to see what the actual settings are. You have the option of layer height, Speed (fine, normal, fast), and fill. The rest is out of your hands. The top layer is a good indication to me of a good print. The Afinia on the Left does an amazing job. The part is very smooth. I have no idea how it does it and I would like to get my hands not he g code to see if I can decode the speeds and temps. 

The Maker does okay. Just a bit of work to do to get it to a level I would like to produce at. The nozzle does appear to drag through the top layer a lot. Here is a typical print I am getting. Is there a setting I am missing somewhere that will tell the z to move up when it moves to a new position?

----------


## sitio

an interesting thread. newbie come listen.

----------


## Chadd

What were your print settings for that print? Looks like you are over extruding.




> Print setting for which part? The Afinia is very limited on what you can choose. I need to do some digging to see what the actual settings are. You have the option of layer height, Speed (fine, normal, fast), and fill. The rest is out of your hands. The top layer is a good indication to me of a good print. The Afinia on the Left does an amazing job. The part is very smooth. I have no idea how it does it and I would like to get my hands not he g code to see if I can decode the speeds and temps. 
> 
> The Maker does okay. Just a bit of work to do to get it to a level I would like to produce at. The nozzle does appear to drag through the top layer a lot. Here is a typical print I am getting. Is there a setting I am missing somewhere that will tell the z to move up when it moves to a new position?

----------


## tsteever

Concerning Pronterface....

If you have been following along you know I had a terrible time with Pronterface on my Mac. No matter how many times I redid the drivers for the FTDI I could not get it to connect consistently. Eventually I followed the steps for reinstalling python via terminal and got it to work sometimes, but with more frequency. I followed the steps listed here towards the bottom...

https://github.com/kliment/Printrun

Once I had that I could get into Pronterface sometimes and sometimes not. I just clicked connect until it worked. I was running the most current version of Pronterface. On a hunch I tried the 12July13 release of Pronterface and I am happy to report I can connect every time! I hope that helps some people.

----------


## printbus

There's been another person on the Makerfarm IRC also struggling with Z axis problems.  That makes three.  

One common denominator is that the MakerFarm zip-tie approach to mount the Z endstop has not been used. If screws are used to mount the switches, don't overtighten them since that can and will distort the switch and lead to problems. I personally wouldn't use hot glue to mount the switch since the glue, while hot, could also distort the switch.  

Any time Z axis issues are apparent, make sure the coupling between the Z motors and the threaded rods is tight, whatever method is being used.  If using the MakerFarm plastic tubing, add zip ties to the tubing and tighten them as much as you can to provide additional clamping force on the threaded rods.  If using split-type aluminum couplers, note that they typically will NOT tighten adequately on the undersized threaded rods unless you've added something like foil or foil tape to the threaded rods to increase their diameter to the 5mm the couplers are designed for.  Time and time again we've had people who *think* their couplers are tight only to later realize they weren't tight enough.  

When Z heights are suspect, always look at the printer LCD and see what the printer thinks the current Z height is.  The display will reflect what the printer has been commanded to (via LCD, gcode file or host software).  It does not necessarily reflect the actual position if there are movement problems on the printer.  This might help determine whether the source of the problem is the command source (host software or gcode), or the printer itself. 

When gcode files are suspect, or you want to know what the gcode will be telling the printer to do as far as Z heights, load the gcode in the gcode.ws analyzer. It's not an app you have to download - it's just a URL where you can load your gcode.  After loading a file, click on the layer view. The scroll bar on the right side of the GUI allows you to view each layer of the print individually.  The scroll bar on the bottom allow you to trace through the movement commands for the selected layer. Note that text data on the left will show what the current print height is for that layer.  

I'm wondering whether the Z axis stepper driver current limits have been adjusted for any of these three printers.  If not, they could be on the low side, which can cause the Z axis motors to skip.  This would manifest itself as the printer not always moving to the commanded Z height, whether during homing or during a print.  On RAMPS and RUMBA, the stepper driver current limits are adjusted by small trimpots on the stepper motor driver boards. For RAMBO, this adjustment is done through firmware changes (or maybe LCD? I don't know).  Refer to the build guide, electronics documentation, or google for more information on the adjustment process.

----------


## tsteever

> What were your print settings for that print? Looks like you are over extruding.


Could you be a bit more specific as to print settings? There are so many that I wouldn't know where to start listing. Which ones are you looking for specifically?

I have been tweaking the Slic3r setting so much I have not clue what is stock! I can attach my slicer config files if that helps.

I worked my way through almost half a spool of filament trying to get the steps right on the extruder. That is not as simple as Youtube makes it look!  I first asked it to extrude 100mm after marking at 120mm. I measured and did the math and found I needed to adjust my steps to 848.2 from 841. I redid the test and this time it said I needed to just to 836! That can't be right as it is less than what I started at. Oooof da, my head hurt after all that. 

I just did it manually until when I called for 100mm of filament, it extruded 100.05. I called that good and ended up with an step value around 846.2 .  

I then moved on to the extruder multiplier by printing the single wall test print and measuring it compared to the gcode which called for .67. I did the math and determined that the spool needed a multiplier of 97%. 

That is what I printed the above piece at. Colin has advised me that he uses the included config and tunings posted from his build guide and does not adjust the multiplier. I know his prints are not as good as they could be, but they look nothing like this mess.

----------


## tsteever

After I made the changes you posted out to the code and changed the homing speeds and heights I am getting better Z axis homing. I will measure when i get home. 

As far as the current limits go, on the Rumba they are controlled by little pots on the driver. I have checked them and find them to be at .4v per the build guide. I have no idea is this is too high or too low. Since the Z stepper is driving two motors, do You think the V should be higher? I find the advice on setting these to be speculative. Change and listen for sounds. When you don't know what the proper sounds are, how do you know? I know the Z motors are not getting hot, which means I could potentially increase the voltage a bit.

----------


## misquamacus

> I know it is a 1500 dollar machine with limited user input. But the parts and pieces that make it are so close to the maker.


This. You have just located the price gap between a DIY kit and a tested, quality assured, finished product.

I have the most experience with Ultimaker products, so I will use them as an example. When one purchases an Ultimaker 2, it costs around $2500 USD. The parts come in around $950, and paying someone to build the printer only costs about $50 each. Also, you're right, the parts are _very_ similar to what you get in a makerfarm kit. So, where does your other $1500 go? What are you paying for?

The answer is quality assurance and technical support. I can tell you from experience that an Ultimaker 2 is just as capable of terrible print quality as your Prusa i3v; however, when it arrives at your door, the Ultimaker 2 quietly churns out perfect 50 micron prints. This is the result of _lots_ of testing. Before each printer leaves the factory, it has to run a gauntlet of tests, real torture prints. If the printer makes one mistake at all, no matter how small, it is sent to review where a team figures out what needs to be fixed; furthermore, the Ultimaker 2 has been out for over a year and the company is still regularly updating parts for it as problems present themselves.

The process of releasing a quality product to the world market is extremely complex/difficult, but for our purposes we'll oversimplify it to 3 parts: Design, Testing, Release. First a company designs a printer, then they test it to death, then *after they've solved all the problems that they can*, the product is released for end users to buy. After that, they continue supporting their customers.

Makers have the choice to enter this process wherever they like:

*Design (Free-ish).* These are the new printer ideas you find online that only a handful of people have actually made. They can usually be assembled with cheap/spare/printed parts. Be advised, there will be _a lot_ of troubleshooting ahead to get it printing at all, let alone making super high quality prints.

*Testing ($ - $$$).* These are the RepRap all-stars. Tried and true open source designs that are known for being capable of terrific performance... if one is patient enough to wrestle that from them. Often companies take one of these popular designs and assemble a DIY kit. The value these kits present is simplifying the process of building a printer from scratch (research, part selection, assembly advice). Such is the case of the Makerfarm Prusa i3v. *Do not confuse this with a finished product*. The company agrees to provide working parts and sometimes build instructions; however, the print quality will be dependent on each individual customer's skill level. In other words, _the_ _customer_ is both quality assurance and technical support.

*Release ($$ -* *∞**).* These are the Makerbots/Ultimakers/Afinias/etc. The company has already troubleshot their product and figured out the best practices for its use. If something is malfunctioning, technical support will help you fix it (often one on one). If the problem is too large for you to fix quickly, they will replace the printer. This service is mostly what you have paid them for.

If you're expecting consistent amazing print quality with this printer, it is possible, but you have a long road ahead of you. The good news is, at the end of the road you will have learned a lot. If that doesn't sound like something you would like, then get out now while you're only $600-ish in. Flip that thing on Craigslist and call it a day.

TL;DR: You get what you pay for, and that's a great thing.
Source: I work for Ultimaker's US branch building/testing/fixing printers.

----------


## Chadd

I originally used the Zip ties but changed to bolts after I had issues with Homing.




> There's been another person on the Makerfarm IRC also struggling with Z axis problems.  That makes three.  
> 
> One common denominator is that the MakerFarm zip-tie approach to mount the Z endstop has not been used. If screws are used to mount the switches, don't overtighten them since that can and will distort the switch and lead to problems. I personally wouldn't use hot glue to mount the switch since the glue, while hot, could also distort the switch.  
> 
> Any time Z axis issues are apparent, make sure the coupling between the Z motors and the threaded rods is tight, whatever method is being used.  If using the MakerFarm plastic tubing, add zip ties to the tubing and tighten them as much as you can to provide additional clamping force on the threaded rods.  If using split-type aluminum couplers, note that they typically will NOT tighten adequately on the undersized threaded rods unless you've added something like foil or foil tape to the threaded rods to increase their diameter to the 5mm the couplers are designed for.  Time and time again we've had people who *think* their couplers are tight only to later realize they weren't tight enough.  
> 
> When Z heights are suspect, always look at the printer LCD and see what the printer thinks the current Z height is.  The display will reflect what the printer has been commanded to (via LCD, gcode file or host software).  It does not necessarily reflect the actual position if there are movement problems on the printer.  This might help determine whether the source of the problem is the command source (host software or gcode), or the printer itself. 
> 
> When gcode files are suspect, or you want to know what the gcode will be telling the printer to do as far as Z heights, load the gcode in the gcode.ws analyzer. It's not an app you have to download - it's just a URL where you can load your gcode.  After loading a file, click on the layer view. The scroll bar on the right side of the GUI allows you to view each layer of the print individually.  The scroll bar on the bottom allow you to trace through the movement commands for the selected layer. Note that text data on the left will show what the current print height is for that layer.  
> ...

----------


## tsteever

I get it, you spend the money for the company support and a pre-tuned printer. I really do understand and fully understood this before getting the printer. I also understood that by getting a "kit" printer I would be doing much of the leg work, with the help of a very supportive community. 

I am not placing blame at all, nor complaining. I am just seeking advise and guidance from more knowledgable people than myself and learning as I go. Hopefully this dialogue can help others as well. Now, can you offer any guidance as to how I can get better, more accurate prints from the printer? I have seen many parts produced on an Ultimaker and they are amazing! I hope to get this machine tuned to come marginally close to what that can do.  I wish I had the funds to pay for an out of the box solution. I wanted a printer with a large build platform and a reasonable cost in regards to my budget. The ultimaker was just too much money for it's build size. It has quite a premium added to it for the high quality prints. 

I made the choice to take on a project and I am up for the challenge. I know this machine can get there is I can just figure out how to overcome the hurdles. 

First problem (pronterface) has been overcome
Second Problem, Z-Axis, working on the fine details but it is printing.
Third Problem, Top layer quality. Got some work to do that I suspect is an extruder setup
Forth Problem, accurate reproduction (size) of parts. Suspect  extruder setup here too.

----------


## Chadd

Where do you adjust the speed that the Z axis homes at for the final home? Can't seem to find it in the config files.

----------


## Chadd

Never mind, I found it.




> Where do you adjust the speed that the Z axis homes at for the final home? Can't seem to find it in the config files.

----------


## printbus

To be blunt, reducing the homing speed to "fix" what might be wrong is a bad idea.  At best it is masking what the problem is.  More than likely the underlying problem is still going to surface as z-axis issues during prints.  Why would it be that no one has had to slow down the last homing leg before?

----------


## Chadd

After reading this and some searching it appears that a lot of people have issues with the default homing speed. Most say changing it from 4 to 3 takes care of the problem. I am about to upload the firmware to try it out, I am a home built CNC machining guy and have dealt with home building CNC machines. 

I know these printers don't have much load on them but in all honestly from a structural standpoint these printers are horrible, I don't think the over all structure of the printer is capable of being repeatable to within the tolerances that we are asking them to be. Slowing down the rate that the machine homes at for sure can't hurt anything. 

But I agree the home rate isn't the underlying problem here. Poor design is. 




> To be blunt, reducing the homing speed to "fix" what might be wrong is a bad idea.  At best it is masking what the problem is.  More than likely the underlying problem is still going to surface as z-axis issues during prints.  Why would it be that no one has had to slow down the last homing leg before?

----------


## printbus

> After reading this and some searching it appears that a lot of people have issues with the default homing speed. Most say changing it from 4 to 3 takes care of the problem.


Who says that? On these printers? I don't recall this ever being discussed in this subforum, except for my INCREASING the homing feedrates.  I can't speak to what MakerFarm is providing for firmware these days, but the standard configuration.h file at least used to specify a Z homing feedrate of 50mm/min. That's less than 1mm/sec.  So, I'm not sure what the 4 or 3 is referring to.

----------


## Chadd

Unless I am mistaken this is the home feedrates from the config file.

#define HOMING_FEEDRATE {50*60, 50*60, 4*60, 0}

that is the X, Y, Z, extruder rates, in that order.

There are at least a few threads on the reprap.org forums about this.




> Who says that? On these printers? I don't recall this ever being discussed in this subforum, except for my INCREASING the homing feedrates.  I can't speak to what MakerFarm is providing for firmware these days, but the standard configuration.h file at least used to specify a Z homing feedrate of 50mm/min. That's less than 1mm/sec.  So, I'm not sure what the 4 or 3 is referring to.

----------


## printbus

> Unless I am mistaken this is the home feedrates from the config file.
> 
> #define HOMING_FEEDRATE {50*60, 50*60, 4*60, 0}
> 
> that is the X, Y, Z, extruder rates, in that order.
> 
> There are at least a few threads on the reprap.org forums about this.


What is the origin of that config file?  Is it a stock Marlin configuration.h from the Zalm repository, or the configuration.h that the manufacturer (MakerFarm) provides to be used?  

It is correct that the Z motors on the i3v printers can't be reliably driven to 4mm/sec.  I found even 3 to be borderline in my testing.

----------


## Chadd

Yes that was directly from the config file that I downloaded for the Rumba from makerfarm.

I am going to download the rambo firmware from makerfarm and look at it. I have run into a few discrepancies with documentation for the 12" i3v.

"edit" the rambo config file has the exact same feedrates that I posted above.




> What is the origin of that config file?  Is it a stock Marlin configuration.h from the Zalm repository, or the configuration.h that the manufacturer (MakerFarm) provides to be used?  
> 
> It is correct that the Z motors on the i3v printers can't be reliably driven to 4mm/sec.  I found even 3 to be borderline in my testing.

----------


## Chadd

The Ramps config is different here are the values from it.

#define HOMING_FEEDRATE {50*60, 50*60, 50, 0}

Maybe this is the issue that people are having? Would that be .883 mm/sec?

I sent an email to Colin to ask him about it.




> Yes that was directly from the config file that I downloaded for the Rumba from makerfarm.
> 
> I am going to download the rambo firmware from makerfarm and look at it. I have run into a few discrepancies with documentation for the 12" i3v.
> 
> "edit" the rambo config file has the exact same feedrates that I posted above.

----------


## Chadd

I heard back from Colin regarding the speed setting in the config file. It looks like this was our problem, here is what Colin replied.




> Hi Chadd,
> Thank you for letting me know, I have changed the firmware and uploaded so everyone can download it.  The firmware should have been as follows: #define HOMING_FEEDRATE {50*60, 50*60, 50, 0}.  Those numbers are the speed at which each axis moves when it homes, if the Z speed is to high the two motors can get out of sync which causes everything to be out of whack.
> 
> Thanks
> Colin

----------


## tsteever

Okay, so remind me. Is this in the config.h?

----------


## printbus

> I heard back from Colin regarding the speed setting in the config file. It looks like this was our problem....


Here's my guess at a scenario - at 50mm/min (yes, 0.83mm/sec), the 12-inch printers take just over 6 minutes to do a full-travel home in the Z axis. Um, yeah, that's a freakin' long time.  Experimenting, someone might have found that WHEN HOMING, you could appear to drive the Z motors a lot faster than that.  Well, somewhat true. The Z motors will move the x-carriage DOWNWARDS nice and fast.  Maybe even more  than 4mm/sec.  The problem is that the motors don't have the torque to lift the x-carriage using M5 rods at that rate, and that someone forgot about the *minor* detail that the X-carriage is lifted upwards a bit for the second leg in the homing process.  

FYI - My take on all sorts of testing the Marlin motion-related parameters such as those in the configuration.h file, including snippets of gcode that are handy for testing the physical movements, can be found in thread http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...-MakerFarm-i3v.  As incentive, I'll tell you that while the 4mm/sec value is unrealistic for Z, the 50mm/minute feed rate is conservative and the printers can do better than that.

----------


## Chadd

> Okay, so remind me. Is this in the config.h?


Yes, search for HOMING_FEEDRATE and you will find it.

Happy to say that my homing issues are now solved, I have printed about 4 prints and have not had to mess with homing at all. Normally I would have to screw with it every single print.

----------


## tsteever

I changed this line of code in the configuration_ad.h file to move the z a bit higher up and the z and y a bit more during the second move step in the homing sequence. This did help a bit. I just thought I would repost.



//homing hits the endstop, then retracts by this distance, before it tries to slowly bump again:
#define X_HOME_RETRACT_MM 10 
#define Y_HOME_RETRACT_MM 10 
#define Z_HOME_RETRACT_MM 2 
//#define QUICK_HOME  //if this is defined, if both x and y are to be homed, a diagonal move will be performed initially.

Somewhere in one of the tabs was the move rate/divided by something but I cannot find it. I will keep digging.

----------


## Chadd

The homing feed rate is in the configuration.h file

Also Colin already has the updated firmware uploaded. Here is the link to download it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80...ew?usp=sharing

Again this is for the Rumba board.



> I changed this line of code in the configuration_ad.h file to move the z a bit higher up and the z and y a bit more during the second move step in the homing sequence. This did help a bit. I just thought I would repost.
> 
> 
> 
> //homing hits the endstop, then retracts by this distance, before it tries to slowly bump again:
> #define X_HOME_RETRACT_MM 10 
> #define Y_HOME_RETRACT_MM 10 
> #define Z_HOME_RETRACT_MM 2 
> //#define QUICK_HOME  //if this is defined, if both x and y are to be homed, a diagonal move will be performed initially.
> ...

----------


## misquamacus

Hah, just read through the beginning of this post and noticed how many other people have already given variations of my diatribe. Sorry to belabor the issue, just trying to adjust your expectations.




> ...can you offer any guidance as to how I can get better, more accurate prints from the printer?


The best advice I can give you is read this book. It's a great resource to fill in much of the background knowledge you need. As for the specific problem you have most recently been posting about (stringy warped ugly prints), that looks related to bed leveling, heat, speed, and extruder settings. Your hot end is too hot, you're over extruding, you're going too fast, and the bed isn't level. Try this, in this order:

1) Use Cura.
2) Re-level your bed. Only clip the glass down on one side to keep the glass level. Stop using paper/etc, and pick up some feeler guages. When using the guages, stay between .03-.2mm of space depending on the material and adhesion supplement.
3) Turn down the heat and the speed. For ABS, go down to about 225°C and set the speed slider to its slowest. If the print doesn't stick to the bed, extruder jams, or print is weak and easily breaks apart then raise the temp in 5° increments until that issue is fixed.
4) Now work on your extruder settings. Start with measuring filament and calculating esteps, then move on to whitemousegary's method.
5) Go back and repeat 2 & 3.

Do all of those steps, print lots of tests playing around with slice settings and then do it all again.

----------


## tsteever

There is no speed slider per say. Can you give me some target numbers to shoot for?

I did some experimenting with Cura and used these values. The top layer looks better but the bottom layer isn't solid. Before printing I did measure and check that when zero'd the bed is touching the glass. I then commanded the z to move to .5mm and I measured this using my feeler gauges. The distance was .5 at 4 corners and in the middle. 

My suspicion is some of the things I did to make a nice top layer have also changed the bottom layer so that it isn't nice and solid.

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## Chadd

I think you would be better off printing some calibration objects instead of actual parts. That way you can follow a guide on what you need to do to improve the parts and calibration of your printer/software. Otherwise you will be chasing your tail.

I use this set of calibration objects and followed the guide in the instructions on thingiverse

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5573

There are a lot of other tips out there for getting your machine to print well but until you have your base layer nailed down and your extrusion rate figured out you are just guessing.

When I calibrated my Esteps I tried to follow a the guide listed here on the forum but it wasn't even close when I calculated it based off of that guide. I ended up finding that 1 estep change =.22233 mm in extrusion length change. My esteps ended up at 878 "was 841 originally"




> There is no speed slider per say. Can you give me some target numbers to shoot for?

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## TopJimmyCooks

Your best way to adjust how the bottom looks is to play with your Z offset.  If you want it squished more, reduce that offset.  If those prints ran with 0.5mm offset, I would try 0.47 and play with it until you're happy.  You can change the Z offset in Slicer, Can't remember if you have that option in Cura.  Once you get the offset exactly where you like it you can change it in firmware.  Until then it s easier to experiment doing it in the gcode.  First layer height percentage plays into that as well (slicer).  I wouldn't play with both variables at the same time, however.

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## misquamacus

> There is no speed slider per say. Can you give me some target numbers to shoot for?


Currently, you're set too fast (especially for a small/thin part) considering the build quality of your printer. Getting good prints at higher speeds takes a fair bit of mechanical tuning (tightening everything, adding LOTS of vibration dampening materials, bolting the printer down to something rigid). To get better quality out of what you have built right now, take print speed down to 30mm and you might need to reduce heat when you do as well. Also, I noticed you have _Diameter_ set to 3mm, have you measured your filament? It is unusual for anything but the nicest of filaments to be perfectly spot on 3mm.

Chadd gave an excellent suggestion for some test objects you can use in your tests, and TopJimmyCooks' advice to use extruder offset is sound as well. To add an offset in Cura, click the Start/End-GCode tab, then click Start Code. Just above the end of the code where it says "M117 Printing...", add the line G1 Z--, substituting your offset for --. For example, if you want an offset of 0.05, then the end of your starting GCode should look like this:

;Put printing message on LCD screen
G1 Z0.05
M117 Printing...

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## tsteever

Doesn't the G1 Z0.05 just move the printer to that location? For all 4 of those prints the bed was level and measured to be touching the glass prior to starting the print.

Also, printing too fast, do I just change all values to be 30mm or should the print speed be 30mm and all others be a percentage of that? 

I am confused now about the extruder multiplier and the filament size. I thought that by putting in a multiplier it would make the changes for the material? 

I am going to spend some time calibrating today it appears!

----------


## misquamacus

> Doesn't the G1 Z0.05 just move the printer to that location? For all 4 of those prints the bed was level and measured to be touching the glass prior to starting the print.


G1 Z0.05 raises your head 0.05mm. For a single extruder printer, all the extruder offset does is change your print height with GCode during the start of a print. "Touching the glass" is not a unit of measurement and does not constitute a level bed; furthermore, large thin beds like the one included with your printer are prone to warping anyway. As I said before, pick up some feeler guages and re-level your bed. Only clip the glass down on one side to keep the glass level. When using the guages, stay between .03-.2mm of space depending on the material and adhesion supplement.




> Also, printing too fast, do I just change all values to be 30mm or should the print speed be 30mm and all others be a percentage of that?


Setting print speed will work wonders itself, but it couldn't hurt to scale back everything else the same percentage as well. Nothing needs to be lower than 20 though, leave anything that low alone.




> I am confused now about the extruder multiplier and the filament size. I thought that by putting in a multiplier it would make the changes for the material?


The multiplier is just changing around a lot of the extruder settings with one factor; however, it is reliant on the filament diameter. Measure your filament in several places and in several ways. You will likely end up with a few different measurements, average those together and leave that value in the Diameter field. Then adjust the multiplier up or down depending on whether you need to extrude more or less. That is all covered in greater detail in whitemousegary's extruder calibration guide I linked to previously.

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## Chadd

A few more things for you,

1. I have not used Cura but I know with slicer you can set a Z offset position, the offset is applied to the Gcode when it is generated and adjusts all the Z positions by the offset you put into slicer.

2. As mentioned the thin build plate will warp and won't be flat, also be sure to check the nozzle height in the center of the glass because I bet you will see that you have a larger gap in the center than on the edges.

3. Be sure you either download the new firmware or change the speed settings for your Z home feedrate otherwise you will be chasing your tail on your Z home/height position.

4. You can also adjust your first layer height in Slicer so you can print a thicker/thinner first layer. With simplify3d you can also adjust the extrusion width for your first layer so you can put down more material.

5. I would re-check your esteps to make sure they are still accurate.

6. I have seen several people who recommend just putting in the "standard" size for your filament say 3mm and then printing test objects and adjust your extrusion multiplier for each roll of filament you use then note it on the roll of filament.

Now that my Z axis is homing is the same every time all the issues I had with first layers are solved, before I would have to stop 2 out of 3 prints on the first layer because of the homing issue.




> Doesn't the G1 Z0.05 just move the printer to that location? For all 4 of those prints the bed was level and measured to be touching the glass prior to starting the print.
> 
> Also, printing too fast, do I just change all values to be 30mm or should the print speed be 30mm and all others be a percentage of that? 
> 
> I am confused now about the extruder multiplier and the filament size. I thought that by putting in a multiplier it would make the changes for the material? 
> 
> I am going to spend some time calibrating today it appears!

----------


## TopJimmyCooks

In gcode all positioning is relative until you tell it to position absolutely in relation to home.  I think.

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## Chadd

> In gcode all positioning is relative until you tell it to position absolutely in relation to home.  I think.


Yep you have to make sure the machine is going to the same home position everytime you home it otherwise you are shooting a moving target

----------


## tsteever

> I think you would be better off printing some calibration objects instead of actual parts. That way you can follow a guide on what you need to do to improve the parts and calibration of your printer/software. Otherwise you will be chasing your tail.
> 
> I use this set of calibration objects and followed the guide in the instructions on thingiverse
> 
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5573
> 
> There are a lot of other tips out there for getting your machine to print well but until you have your base layer nailed down and your extrusion rate figured out you are just guessing.
> 
> When I calibrated my Esteps I tried to follow a the guide listed here on the forum but it wasn't even close when I calculated it based off of that guide. I ended up finding that 1 estep change =.22233 mm in extrusion length change. My esteps ended up at 878 "was 841 originally"



I am working my way through the guide and get to the part in his blog that says to look for sagging. I am getting closer to the .4mm wall but now notice a bit of sagging in the walls. The corners are slightly higher. He never says what to do if that happens. 

If I add more to the multiplier the walls will increase, defeating what I am trying to do. If I read into the further statements he does say to lower the height per layer to .3, Would that help get rid of sagging?

----------


## Chadd

Do you have a picture of the part you printed?




> I am working my way through the guide and get to the part in his blog that says to look for sagging. I am getting closer to the .4mm wall but now notice a bit of sagging in the walls. The corners are slightly higher. He never says what to do if that happens. 
> 
> If I add more to the multiplier the walls will increase, defeating what I am trying to do. If I read into the further statements he does say to lower the height per layer to .3, Would that help get rid of sagging?

----------


## tsteever

I can, but the only camera I have is an iPhone. It doesn't take macro shots well at all. It isn't a huge sag. Just thought it was odd that he mentions to look for it, but not how to fix it

----------


## tsteever

Not sure  if you can see the slight droop on these prints. It isn't too much but there non the less

I am still not happy with the finish on the top layer and the bottom looks like it needs to be a bit more squished in my opinion. 

It looks very open compared to the purchased 3d parts I've bought. What settings  can I tweak to get a better squish? The nozzle is already lowered to the glass less than the .35nfirst layer height. These are from the calibration thread.

----------


## Chadd

What program are you using to slice with?

Have you checked the nozzle height in the middle of the bed after you home it?





> Not sure  if you can see the slight droop on these prints. It isn't too much but there non the less
> 
> I am still not happy with the finish on the top layer and the bottom looks like it needs to be a bit more squished in my opinion. 
> 
> It looks very open compared to the purchased 3d parts I've bought. What settings  can I tweak to get a better squish? The nozzle is already lowered to the glass less than the .35nfirst layer height. These are from the calibration thread.

----------


## tsteever

Well, I was using Cura but the tutorial is written for Slic3r. I figured I would stay with what was written as i learn and then migrate those settings to Cura.

Yes, I just level the bed manually at the 4 corners and then I zero out the nozzle in the middle.

----------


## Chadd

How are you zeroing out the nozzle in the middle?

What material and temperature are you running?





> Well, I was using Cura but the tutorial is written for Slic3r. I figured I would stay with what was written as i learn and then migrate those settings to Cura.
> 
> Yes, I just level the bed manually at the 4 corners and then I zero out the nozzle in the middle.

----------


## tsteever

I am using ABS at 230 degrees.

To zero I adjust the endstop and zero the z axis. I then measure that is is touching the bed. If not, I then adjust the endstop and zero it again until it is touching the bed. I use pronterface to command the movements.

----------


## ChadroG

I totally gave up using proterface with mine. I use the SD card solely now and have had no headaches since.

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## Chadd

Are you still having to mess with your home position before every print? Did you ever upgrade your firmware or change the Z home axis feedrate?




> I am using ABS at 230 degrees.
> 
> To zero I adjust the endstop and zero the z axis. I then measure that is is touching the bed. If not, I then adjust the endstop and zero it again until it is touching the bed. I use pronterface to command the movements.

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## tsteever

Got that all sorted out. I replaced the endstop with a new micro switch and updated the firmware

----------


## Chadd

> Got that all sorted out. I replaced the endstop with a new micro switch and updated the firmware



I am not sure, looks like those prints may be a bit too hot but I run  ABS@ ~245-250 otherwise I don't get good layer adhesion so if those are at 230 I wouldn't think they would be hot. If you pm me your email I can send you Gcode of something I have sliced and you can try to print it. Could compare print to print that way.

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## tsteever

Thanks! I will send you my email.

----------


## Chadd

Sent you some files.




> Thanks! I will send you my email.

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## tsteever

Thanks Chadd for the files. Been printing these parts left and right getting things dialed in. I think I am getting closer. I sent you this pic but I figured I would also post here. 

The One thing I am finding is the balance of flow rate is tough! Should I be adjust the filament diameter and the multiplier? I have been doing both but it seems like they would both do the same thing and I am fighting myself. To set the multiplier I was printing a single walled box with a perimeter width of .6. I measured the result vs the called for .6 and did my adjustments there. I also measured the filament in multiple spots to get the diameter.  

I have calibrated the steps on the extruder so that 50mm setting actually extrudes 50mm of filament. It seems like if I lower the filament diameter (material going into the machine) and lower the multiplier I am telling the machine to extrude less material twice.  

I have successfully gotten my bed to correctly zero out on the z axis and have even begun to play with the ABL a bit. I am not happy with how the bottom layers are turning out in Slic3r and Cura seems to over squish. Both have similar settings as far as initial layer height is concerned. 

I also tried to print a cube and the top layer had holes in it. This was printed with Cura. It was a misprint as I intended to print solid and forgot to change the infill. I figured I would jest let it run to see how it did. Not good as you can see.



Slic3r Bottom Layer. Stuck good, just has voids between extrusions.



Cura bottom layer. Similar settings, good squish. Chad suspects too squished. Lower the width or raise the initial later height perhaps? Ignore the funny lines, just marks from my glue stick.


Cura Print. Had a .8mm top and botom llayer height which I think wasn't enough with that level of infill. 


Sold box test. From the look of it, I need to raise my extrusion multiplier.

----------


## tsteever

Another common suggestion I get is that my print settings are too hot. Not sure how people can tell this (Shiny parts). I am printing the above at 215 degrees. Not sure as that seems low to me. I did shoot it with a non contact thermometer and it read low. Significantly lower than 214. I know this is a surface temp and not an internal temp but if I were printing too high I would think the external temp would have been hotter than 180. 

Has anyone else temped their hotends? It would be nice to have something to compare it to. My thought is that the black from Colin is just a shiny material. What are some other brands to try out?

----------


## Chadd

I just leave the diameter set to nominal and adjust the flow rate multiplier for each roll of filament I use. So when I start a new roll I print the calibration cube at 100% infill and adjust the multiplier so that it has a flat top. Then I either make a profile for that roll or just write on the roll what the multiplier should be for that roll. For me it seems to work better that way.




> Thanks Chadd for the files. Been printing these parts left and right getting things dialed in. I think I am getting closer. I sent you this pic but I figured I would also post here. 
> 
> The One thing I am finding is the balance of flow rate is tough! Should I be adjust the filament diameter and the multiplier? I have been doing both but it seems like they would both do the same thing and I am fighting myself. To set the multiplier I was printing a single walled box with a perimeter width of .6. I measured the result vs the called for .6 and did my adjustments there. I also measured the filament in multiple spots to get the diameter.  
> 
> I have calibrated the steps on the extruder so that 50mm setting actually extrudes 50mm of filament. It seems like if I lower the filament diameter (material going into the machine) and lower the multiplier I am telling the machine to extrude less material twice.  
> 
> I have successfully gotten my bed to correctly zero out on the z axis and have even begun to play with the ABL a bit. I am not happy with how the bottom layers are turning out in Slic3r and Cura seems to over squish. Both have similar settings as far as initial layer height is concerned. 
> 
> I also tried to print a cube and the top layer had holes in it. This was printed with Cura. It was a misprint as I intended to print solid and forgot to change the infill. I figured I would jest let it run to see how it did. Not good as you can see.
> ...

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## Chadd

I may be going about it wrong but in the short time I have been printing the best indicator of temp is to print something that is thin wall with no infill 1-2 layers thick then break it and check for layer adhesion. It shouldn't just break clean when you pull it apart. I have to print ABS @245 to 250 to get good layer adhesion, I have tried all the way down to like 225. A good part to test this on would be the clips for the corner of the bed that I sent you, if they are too cold they will split apart when you try to clip them on the corners of your bed. Here is where I got the STL file for those

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:575489/#files

The gcode I sent you was for four of the small radius clips and I believe I had to run them at 250° for good adhesion. I also included the STL file for it.




> Another common suggestion I get is that my print settings are too hot. Not sure how people can tell this (Shiny parts). I am printing the above at 215 degrees. Not sure as that seems low to me. I did shoot it with a non contact thermometer and it read low. Significantly lower than 214. I know this is a surface temp and not an internal temp but if I were printing too high I would think the external temp would have been hotter than 180. 
> 
> Has anyone else temped their hotends? It would be nice to have something to compare it to. My thought is that the black from Colin is just a shiny material. What are some other brands to try out?

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## tsteever

Getting closer. I printed the box and the top is "fuller" but oddly not flat. It is within about .1 or so. Not sure what causes it. My inexperience says perhaps part of the print cooling weird. Maybe the auto bed level is goofy?  I'm gonna put the non ABL firmware on and reprint to see if it changes things. 

Here re is the print. What do you think? Top layer on the most recent Slic3r is much improved.

Top layer is much better


Not perfectly flat


Kinda bulges in parts and sags in others.

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## Chadd

That looks quite a bit better than what you had before.




> Getting closer. I printed the box and the top is "fuller" but oddly not flat. It is within about .1 or so. Not sure what causes it. My inexperience says perhaps part of the print cooling weird. Maybe the auto bed level is goofy?  I'm gonna put the non ABL firmware on and reprint to see if it changes things. 
> 
> Here re is the print. What do you think? Top layer on the most recent Slic3r is much improved.
> \Top layer is much better
> 
> 
> Not perfectly flat
> 
> 
> Kinda bulges in parts and sags in others.

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## pichuete

I suggest that you check the following things to see if it improves your prints. 

1) reduce the infill perimeter overlap a bit.  
2) make a thin wall calibration assuming you did your e-steps already fine tune your extrusion adjusting the extrution multiplier. 
3) maker sure your filament is rolling smoothly.  ( the provided stock spool holder is awful). 

4) try to level you bed as good as you can even though you have abl.  You can use G29 n3 T V4 to see your bed topography if you are using the enhanced version. 

Also I noticed that your corners are curling up its seams that you are probably a extruding a bit to hot.  In my case I have noticed that I need to lower the temp a bit for black abs.  (235c)

You  are in the right direction at this point little changes will get you there.  :Smile:  

I have 2 month with My printer and I'm still playing with the settings. .... I'm still  not satisfied with the quality.

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## tsteever

Thanks all, yes it is getting there.  I did do the single wall calibration and e steps setting. I have lowered the temp even more. At this point I am doubting the thermister calibration as I am at 200 and still curling the edges and getting ooze. 

Does it help to print the external perimeters first?

how hard is it to upgrade to the enhanced version? I really want to do that but haven't a clue what is involved.

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## tsteever

I do not see a setting in slic3r to adjust the infill perimeter overlap. Where is this setting located?

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## pichuete

yeah if you are printing ABS at 200C something related with the thermistor settings can be possibly  off . make sure you have the Type 1 thermistor under the thermal settings on the configuration.h File . 
#define TEMP_SENSOR_0 1
#define TEMP_SENSOR_1 0
#define TEMP_SENSOR_2 0
#define TEMP_SENSOR_BED 1

also you can try replacing the thermistortables.h File on your firmware for the stock file .if that doesn't help .

Printing with external perimeters first can help getting better outline quality in some situations (straight walls) but i personally dont like it for parts that have overhangs , sometimes if the angle is to high you can end printing on air or can reduce layer adhesion. 

also observe if this is happening in all corners or only in layer change or end loops. i have been trying to reduce this blobs playing with the retraction settings and Coast end (distance that the nozzle will stop extruding prior to the end of a loop). a good start can be from 1 mm to 1.80mm at 15mm/s - 20/mms for the retraction. and coast end at 2 mm

Regarding the Roxy's enhancements im  running the following firmware .its not the latest but it has the enhancements already implemented . you just need to adjust the settings for your particular configuration . also you can find more info here: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ed-G29-command

here's the repo for  Marlin firmware fork for MakerFarm i3v w/ auto bed level & Roxy's enhancements
https://github.com/beckdac/Marlin

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## tsteever

> https://github.com/beckdac/Marlin[/URL]


there are a lot of words there I don't understand. What is a repo? What is a fork?

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## pichuete

Repo = Repository Fork i guess is because is configured to work with makefarms printers the main settings are already set for makerfarm printers :Smile: 

Also my bad English doesn't help  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## tsteever

So I can just upload that and it should be configured for my Makerfarm printer? Also, can you direct me to the infill overlap setting? i cannot find it in slic3r.

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## pichuete

my bad i didnt realized that slic3r doesnt give you the option to change solid infill  overlaps . Cura and Simplify3d let you change this parameters . but slic3r does give you the option to change you extrusion width for solid infill  under print settings / Advanced . you can try reducing the width by 1 or 2 % just to give you an idea . 

i didnt play to much with slicer i found cura and simplify3d to be more user friendly.

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## tsteever

I am in the midst of reading through the enhanced code and came across the thermistor settings in my Colin supplied firmware. It is calling out table 6, not table 1. Should I change this?

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## TopJimmyCooks

see thread on thermistor tables here:  

http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...rtables-h-data

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## tsteever

Thanks! Great info there. Once I get the new firmware loaded I will just use table 1. 

So so I posted this in the other thread too but is may be beneficial to ask here as well. How do you update the firmware?

i have the link to a MakerFarm fork. I have no idea what that is. My understanding is it is specific to the makerfarm kits. There are some settings that get changed and I think I am comfortable with most of them.  

My my big question is, what is github? Specifically, what is it from that page I need to download?  When I get the firmware from Colin it is in one folder with the arduino in one folder. There are five items in the following link.  Which do I download?

https://github.com/beckdac/Marlin

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## tsteever

Got the ABL to work, with some small issues listed in another thread. I wanted to share this print for guidance on what I need to change. I printed this in Cura and it did not turn out so well. Here are some pics of my settings and the print. Basically it delaminated and there are blobs in the print itself. It stuck good to the bed.

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## sniffle

it warped)bottom right corner of the box is lifted off the bed) and delamination happens due to poor intra-layer adhesion and warping caused at different points during the printing process... 

you can usually fix the layer adhesion by going up in hot end temps , Cura tends to extrude on the heavy side, so you can lessen the blobs by lowering your extrusion multiplier or the e-steps in the machine config.  

as far as the warping, if you are printing in ABS, having the hotend fan blowing towards teh extruder causes lots of air to be blown towards the part and will cause warping, but also if the room you are printing in is cool and there is a draft of any sort it can also cause a warp out of nowhere.

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