# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > Other 3D Printers / Scanners / Hardware > M3D Forum >  How good will the Quality be?

## Lindros_bigE

Does anyone know for sure how good the quality of these m3d printers will be?  I usually live by the phrase "You get what you pay for".  However, prices for fdm printers are going to drop significantly at some point in time.  Do you think this is the time?  Do you guys and gals think that you will get what you pay for with the M3D or it will be the first printer to drasticly drop the price on fdm 3d printing?  

I'm hoping it's the latter.

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## DJNOS1978

Time shall tell.  :Wink:

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## RobH2

Even if they produce great prints you need to make sure the Build Area is sufficient for you particular needs. It seems to have a two-stage build area. I think that in order for the extruder to clear the frame, it has to move in to a a 3.5" base. So at full base size of 4.4"x4.3" you can print 2.9" high. If the base is less than 3.6" or steps in, you can print up to 4.6" or 116mm. From what I see most RepRap printers are capable of about twice that Build Size. But, it you only do small stuff, it looks simple, clean and well designed. Their thermochromic filament looks fun.

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## Duck

I've wondered about this too but was reassured in Update 9.  I asked for a dimensional check photo and they provided this:



It would be reassuring to see a similar photo from a Beta unit in the wild.

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## DJNOS1978

What do you do when it breaks?

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## Duck

When what breaks?

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## DJNOS1978

The machine? They all break.

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## Duck

Everything breaks.  Then you fix it.

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## DJNOS1978

I guess I should have been more clear. 
How much trouble is it to fix the machine when it breaks? I ask because there is so much more to these things than "printing". I'm curious to see if the customers understand that and feedback from the ones that had to fix it.

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## Duck

It is certainly small and light enough that shipping it back shouldn't be too much trouble if they'll fix major problems under warranty.  It's being pitched as a "consumer" machine so they'd better think about getting that system set up and in place for the wave of tickets they'll end up getting.

That being said, I've been studying the mechanical design of the thing for almost a year now and with a very low part count, about the worst mechanically I can see happening is breaking a guide rod or a belt.  Anyone on this forum is likely competent enough to be able to repair it.  Getting all 4 screws on the H-bridge timed to one another properly isn't critical if the bed leveling software works as promised.

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## DJNOS1978

You said a mouthful. "Consumer" printer and people on this forum should know how to fix it. Personally I think it is a mistake in the industry to think these machines are for the everyday consumer. Sure at maybe $100-$300 someone might buy a toy to play with but the prices have gone up. And when they break for these people they will not just trash it and buy another. And most of the everyday consumers won't have a clue how to fix it. So yes they better set up a tech support system. But I bet my company they won't. 

The real consumer are the people on this forum. So here is the question. Why do they want or need this specific machine? I'm sure it has its strong points. Maybe the design is so simple it can be repaired easy? That is what I want to know. Do you have one?

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## Duck

Not yet but mine's in the Feb batch.  I've followed the project like a hawk.

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## DJNOS1978

Nice. Would you care to share the experience?

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## RobH2

Fixing a 3d printer malfunction is not very difficult usually. Asking, "what do you do when it breaks" is maybe not the best way to ask the question. A 3d printer is an amalgamation of a bunch of discrete parts that all work together to perform a task, much like any mechanical device. Some things are more likely to wear or break but when a printer malfunctions, you just have to find the faulty component and replace it. If that's a ceramic heater, well, then you just pull it out and wire in a new one. It takes 10-minutes or less. If a stepper motor goes, you unbolt it and connect a new one. Not a difficult task. If the prints get sloppy or irregular, it might be loose bolts.

So a printer breaking is not a singular thing like breaking a drinking glass. A printer can malfunction in a number of ways. I would say that a 3d printer is not the right device for someone without any desire to get involved with maintenance. If you are a plug and play kind of person and you want to just turn it on and have it work, a 3d printer is not for you yet. Maybe someday they will be like that, but not yet. Having said that, the skills required to use and maintain don't take a degree in physics either. They are straight forward and logical and a 10 year-old can do it. But you have to be willing to learn a few new things and not be afraid to read and figure a few things out.

Many people have gotten so used to plug and play devices that they've lost the inclination or aptitude for figuring out simple devices and fixing them. Many people can't go much further than changing batteries in a remote and that's a shame. It is however a testament to the quality of product development and simplicity that is built into many of our everyday toys that are very, very complex under the hood. But, rarely do we need to learn what's under the hood. It works or it doesn't and if it stops working it is tossed out and a new one is purchased. I can't tell you how many people dispose of computers that they think are broken when it was only a program malfunction. The computer is still perfectly good. But, many people don't understand that. If it doesn't work, for whatever reason, then to them it's completely broken and needs to be thrown away.

So to get back to "How good with the quality be" I'll say this. Yes, you frequently do get what you pay for. But, fortunately for 3d printers, most of the ones we Reprappers buy and build all use parts from the same pond. Most all printers in the sub $2000 range are using similar stepper motors, hot ends, power supplies, etc. So, if you get an inexpensive printer and something breaks, just replace or upgrade the part and you'll be going again. You need to be a tiny bit clever to own a 3d printer. And, if you are very clever and extremely handy, you'll love every minute of it. They are amazing and useful tools.

I've always felt that you are better off building your machine then buying a prebuilt one because you truly learn about it top to bottom. That way if it breaks, it's easier to diagnose and repair. The important thing is not to fret over it too much. In the scope of things, spending $500 on a printer is not a huge investment for most people. Stay home from going out 4 or 5 weekends and you have that. The important thing is to just dive into this amazing technology and play with it. I'm guessing that even if you buy a cheap printer that breaks beyond repair after 6-months that you won't care because you'll be so hooked you'll pay more to buy a better one. It's truly something that will either completely captivate you or you'll have no interest in it at all. I don't think there is a gray area. So, "Just Do It"  (don't sue me NIKE!.)

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## DJNOS1978

> Fixing a 3d printer malfunction is not very difficult usually. Asking, "what do you do when it breaks" is maybe not the best way to ask the question. A 3d printer is an amalgamation of a bunch of discrete parts that all work together to perform a task, much like any mechanical device. Some things are more likely to wear or break but when a printer malfunctions, you just have to find the faulty component and replace it. If that's a ceramic heater, well, then you just pull it out and wire in a new one. It takes 10-minutes or less. If a stepper motor goes, you unbolt it and connect a new one. Not a difficult task. If the prints get sloppy or irregular, it might be loose bolts.
> 
> So a printer breaking is not a singular thing like breaking a drinking glass. A printer can malfunction in a number of ways. I would say that a 3d printer is not the right device for someone without any desire to get involved with maintenance. If you are a plug and play kind of person and you want to just turn it on and have it work, a 3d printer is not for you yet. Maybe someday they will be like that, but not yet. Having said that, the skills required to use and maintain don't take a degree in physics either. They are straight forward and logical and a 10 year-old can do it. But you have to be willing to learn a few new things and not be afraid to read and figure a few things out.
> 
> Many people have gotten so used to plug and play devices that they've lost the inclination or aptitude for figuring out simple devices and fixing them. Many people can't go much further than changing batteries in a remote and that's a shame. It is however a testament to the quality of product development and simplicity that is built into many of our everyday toys that are very, very complex under the hood. But, rarely do we need to learn what's under the hood. It works or it doesn't and if it stops working it is tossed out and a new one is purchased. I can't tell you how many people dispose of computers that they think are broken when it was only a program malfunction. The computer is still perfectly good. But, many people don't understand that. If it doesn't work, for whatever reason, then to them it's completely broken and needs to be thrown away.
> 
> So to get back to "How good with the quality be" I'll say this. Yes, you frequently do get what you pay for. But, fortunately for 3d printers, most of the ones we Reprappers buy and build all use parts from the same pond. Most all printers in the sub $2000 range are using similar stepper motors, hot ends, power supplies, etc. So, if you get an inexpensive printer and something breaks, just replace or upgrade the part and you'll be going again. You need to be a tiny bit clever to own a 3d printer. And, if you are very clever and extremely handy, you'll love every minute of it. They are amazing and useful tools.
> 
> I've always felt that you are better off building your machine then buying a prebuilt one because you truly learn about it top to bottom. That way if it breaks, it's easier to diagnose and repair. The important thing is not to fret over it too much. In the scope of things, spending $500 on a printer is not a huge investment for most people. Stay home from going out 4 or 5 weekends and you have that. The important thing is to just dive into this amazing technology and play with it. I'm guessing that even if you buy a cheap printer that breaks beyond repair after 6-months that you won't care because you'll be so hooked you'll pay more to buy a better one. It's truly something that will either completely captivate you or you'll have no interest in it at all. I don't think there is a gray area. So, "Just Do It"  (don't sue me NIKE!.)


Not a bad statement. I agree with most of what you say. And yes, typically anyone can figure out a 3D printer, IF they want to spend the time to do it AND have the aptitude. A 10 year can learn it if they have both of those traits. But the "consumer" people refer to are typically referring to the everyday IPhone owner. I have 3 machines running right now in my home. My wife still says, "If you didn't have those things here I sure wouldn't because I don't need them or see a need for them in a home".

Sure some people get the machines with the idea that it is "plug and play" but they are not and they soon find themselves in a very unsatisfied position. 

 I will say that you do not just go buy parts from around the world and assume they will work they way you want. I have tried it and spent a lot of time and money in R&D to build the machines that we sell.  I know people who have multiple machines from many different vendors. So far I have yet to find one that most parts can be replaced in 10 minutes. The general idea is there but you should know that when you start messing with the components there is the chance that something else could break. 

Still I think you hit the nail on the head.

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## RobH2

Yes '*DJNOS1978*', agreed. 

People who buy 3d printers because they want to stop going to WalMart for objects will be unsatisfied. Your wife is like a lot of people probably. Why spend 2 days making a phone case when you can order a really nice one on Amazon for under $10? 3D printing has been sold in sort of an improper way by the press. They are really not going to be useful to the average homeowner because once you made a few keyfobs, phone cases and vases, what else do they need it for, right? 3D printing is not going to eliminate the need for the average person to buy things that are made of plastic. Sure, 1000's of crazy (some useful some not) items can be found online and then printed but again, after you print a dozen different things, you are out of uses. What these printers are BEST for in my opinion is if you have a specific need and can use it weekly to achieve that goal. 

For instance, if you are developing a product it is very, very expensive to retain a model maker or prototype shop. If you can make your own prototypes you can save 1000's of dollars. Once the prototype is good you can then explore your production options. So say you come up with the best iPhone case around. Maybe 3d printing it is a good solution for the end product to sell but most of the time, there are better and more economical "existing" mass production methods, and certainly faster ones. That might change and we see signs already of faster technologies. But, those are not accessible to we mortals because of cost. It's also a great to have a 3d printer if you meed replacement parts for something on a frequent basis. You can now print those at will. That's a perfect use for them. But, to think buying a 3d printer will enable you to make 1000's of things you used to buy, it won't because you'll soon realize that the manufactured item is probably always better and less work. Our time is valuable so if you modestly value your time at $30/hour and you spend 4 hours making an iPhone case, then you have over $120 into it. That's on expensive case and it's still not perfect. It has layer lines and minor defects that are inherent in all 3d prints. Sure,  it's fun and educational, but sooner or later, spending 4 hours every time you want to save $20 is inefficient. You could make more money applying your free creative time elsewhere. 

Finally, if the end user is not handy at all and not inclined to tinker, turn screws, solder or learn a tiny bit of code, then a 3d printer is a really bad choice. Whether you buy one built or build it, you have to be willing to be a little bit of a mad scientist to keep it running. 

I hope that one day you'll be able to walk into your house and say, "hey, 3d printer (like saying "hey Siri"), make me a set of yellow candle holders." You don't touch the machine or anything and it goes on the web, downloads the file, heats the printer, prints the items and then calls your cell phone to say the print is finished. You go back to it, lift it out of the bin and it has been perfectly printed and ABS smoothed and it ready to use. That will be great day, but, we certainly aren't there yet.

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## DJNOS1978

Yep. I don't know if we will ever get to the point to where 3 d printers will be that simple. But now that the patents have expired innovation has exploded. 
So therein lies the question - who are 3d printers made for? 
Hobbyists, education, and business. Everyone falls under those three classes, I believe. And some fall under two. 

But I am still trying to make my wife want one. ;p


At at the end if the day 3d printers are bigger than just 3 d printing. They are excellent learning tools in many industries.

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## icanthinkofanid

> Nice. Would you care to share the experience?


I have my beta version of the printer and so far I can say the experience has been a positive one. I have had a few kinks, the support and questions team have been excellent. When there was an issue they paid to have the printer shipped backed then fixed and returned it to me within 2 weeks.

To see some quality videos check out my YouTube, I've been posting printing videos there. So far the quality is not up to expectations of a $2k printer, but it is working to make fun toys for my kids. I will say the team at M3D are working hard on bringing the quality, I've spoken with them numerous times about it. 

If if you want to know more about my beta experience just ask or check my YouTube. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCbsTiRaZ9XD_7jJYKMdSJhw

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## DJNOS1978

Pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. You won't here this often, especially from other 3D printer makers but I have to say that their machine serves a purpose.  I would also say that all 3D printers are user based. You put in the time to get the quality to where it needs to be and you will get excellent prints.

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