# 3D Printing > General 3D Printing Discussion >  Printbite ... wont bite!

## proto-typer

After having a few issues with over-adhesion to the bed, and some resulting messy printing I havew bought myself a sheet of printbite.....which I am told is a much better surface for printing on. 

My problem now is I cannot get anything to adhere to it properly. As soon as the thing starts lay down an outline, it is pulling it up and dragging it behind the print head. 

I am sure this is a setting issue....but I have been trying a variety of settings and can't seem to find the sweet spot here. 

I am printing PLA with a head temp of 200 and a print bed set to 70. Before, I was printing well with 60 on the bed and 190 extruder temp. I upped the extruder temp to get a better joint between layers. I upped the bed a fraction as the printbite adds some thickness to the bed, and I was concerned the full heat was not going to get through. Printer is a Wanhao Dupolicator I3. 

And yes...I did re-level the bed!

The printbite is held down with bulldog clips at all 4 corners

Anu suggestions to get a better result?

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## jeffmorris

Try cleaning the Printbyte with 70% Isopropyl Alcohol.

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## Roberts_Clif

I too have had terrible luck with the Bed Surfaces, Have Build Tack surfaces that is like wining the lottery trying to get PLA to stick, When it does stick can not get it to release. I have broken more small complex models trying to remove than ever saved. 
I Resolved this problem by using a alternate to blue tape, Use vinyl transfer paper tape comes in many widths up to 1 meter. So can place it on the bed in one pass. With the Paper they come right off or if you get closer to the bed hangs on firmly.

Installing Vinyl Transfer Paper Tape
https://youtu.be/tJG1i2utfB4

Including a 3D Printable Applicator
applicator.stl

Will Vinyl Transfer Paper release my Print
https://youtu.be/Y5ut1OtMSp0

Will Vinyl transfer paper Hold my Part
https://youtu.be/qzWKE3TO9UU

BuildTak surface is still on the bed looks good but, now it is covered with Vinyl Transfer Paper.
Have not stopped trying to get it to work but going on almost a year now with less than 25% good models from surface.

Whereas the Vinyl transfer Paper tape have better than 90% good models, only my error is responsible for the other 10% of bad models.

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## curious aardvark

Slow your first layer print speed to around 10%.
bed temp for pla, i use 50c. 
Pla print temp i use 210.

Print area fan off for first layer. 
If it's dragging it up, then it's generally because you're printing first layer too fast.

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## proto-typer

Cool... I guessed that there would be a need for different setitngs.... Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a try tomorrow. I could see the hotter temps I was using already gave a better flat surface on the bed....it just woudn't stay  :Smile: 

I'll let you know how I get on!

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## curious aardvark

One other thing I've been doing recently, if I'm printing at a fairly high resolution I'll print the first layer double height.

It does take a little dialling in, but once you've got it sorted - it does just work: print after print.

And you don't need TAPE, Even vinyl tape :-)

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## proto-typer

This is driving me slowly really rather insane....

The first layerjust isn't even starting to adhere. 

The part I am printing is basically a 37mm diameter disk. Layer one has gone most of the way round before any plastic actually sticks to the bed. It's just not going anywhere but round the back of the extruder. Once it gets most of the way round, some plastic starts to get left on the bed...but it has not stuck at all, so when the nozzle begins it's second lap...it just picks up the first bits and drags them. It will lay down straight sections....but any sideways movement for circles, and it's just picking up. Once I can get this first layer down, the rest will be plain sailing. 

current settings: 

210 extruder
50 bed
fan off on layer 1

Removed the Printbite, relevelled...and tested just to make sure I didn;t have a problem that just co-incided with the bed swap, and all prints as it ought...even with the settings I had tweaked for hte Printbite. 

Now...I am not one to give in, so I will keep trying. The PrintBite is a lower friction surface clearly....so what else would either help the filament to stick? There also seems to be an issue with the filament actually flowing to start with. It's like it balles up in the nozzle rather than coming out. I tried applying gentle pressure to the bed to lift the nozzle away and it flowed...I am tempted to apply some very fine abrasive to key the surface....but I suspect that will ruin the thing altogether

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## curious aardvark

sounds like your bed levelling is the issue. 

You need the nozzle nearer to the bed. You don't need much smoosh - but you do need a little, 

NO do not sand it ! 
Just adjust your printing height for the first layer.

Hang on if it's balling up in the nozzle - then you might need to move the nozzle sightly further away from the bed. 
I tend to go in increments of 5 100ths of a mm. so 0.05 at a time either up or down.

Also can't hurt to give it a wipe with some acetone, might have grease on it. 

Just hope they haven't changed the formula for this new, thinner stuff and bollixed it up.

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## proto-typer

I was checking my bed VERY carefully.....and I don't think the metal bad is flat. If the bed was bowed up, the clearance could have reduced to virtually nothing...causing the extruder to block and tearing hte print straight off the bed. 

I am trying now to do the bed levelling specifically over the area the print is...rather than a perimeter check. I am also being a bit more scientific...and have dug out my feeler guages. That way I will get optimal clearances over the area I actually need, and I couldn't give a wet slap if it's out of kilter where I am not printing  :Smile: 

The bits I have got to print came off the board beautifully, and I have no intention of giving up. This surface will work well when I get it to work. Quitters should stay away from 3D printers, IMHO, as from what I have read...this sort of thing is to be expected.

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## curious aardvark

yep. 
One of the problems is that no two printers or workshop environments are the same. 
And it all effects how prints and filament behave. 

I also find that, like plants, printers work best if you talk to them ;-)

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## mjf55

> I also find that, like plants, printers work best if you talk to them ;-)


I think you need to use NICE words.  Not #*%! words.   :Wink:

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## curious aardvark

well yeah - obviously :-)

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## proto-typer

Damn .... that's where I was going wrong ... the language I was using was turning the air blue.

I'll whisper sweetly in it's USB port about what a wonder it is. I just hope it speaks English, cos the manual didn't  :Smile:

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## curious aardvark

well it's more of an overall attitude that's required. It's a function of a persons electromagnetic field and interaction with the quantum mechanics going on in electronic devices. 

Over the years I've lost count of the number of houses I've turned up at, switched the computer on and said: 'what's wrong with that ?'
People just stare at the thing and go: 'it hasn't done that for weeks ! It was dead I tell you, dead !'

Whereas my sister can walk into a room and all the computers in it will instantly freeze up.

There's a lot to be said for anthropomorphism where electronic devices are concerned :-)

As far as level bed goes - I've got a flat sheet of aluminium on top of my flashforges original not flat bed and the printbite on top of that. 
So yep - can't hurt :-)

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## proto-typer

I am going to get a piece of glass cut to fit. 

My flatness hunch was proved when I started getting similar pickup issues with out the PrintBite after I re-levelled the bed. When I checked all 4 corners with the feeler gauge, they were fine. I did a test print and it ripped the first layer up and clogged up the nozzle. 

I made a mental note of where the print was happening and checked the central area on the bed. This went from a light sliding fit to a definite drag. Mostly towards the front of the bed. The amount of doming is tiny, and not detectable by eye .... but with clearances of 1/100 mm making a real difference, flat has to mean FLAT!

I have re-levelled the bed specifically for the area of print and it's printing lovely now....so I will refit the PrintBite and run through the same process. 

I do have one question though for securing the PB to the bed. I was using bulldog clips to start with, but they snag on the frame. I tried clothes pegs...not good either. I was considering using a bead of hotglue around the edge to stop it moving. I think this might have had a further bearing on the problem as the layer is flexible.

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## Roberts_Clif

My BuildTak surface is glued to the surface. you might what to think about a good releasable glue or ever a permanent glue you could use on the print bed.

You could even consider a double sided tape across the bed, which would not be a permanent adhesive.

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## endure



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## proto-typer

I like the idea of those clips ...... but I had one of those epiphany moments. I have been stupid with a capital STUPID. So stupid in fact I physically had to give myself a slap.

I need some kind of clip to hold the print bed on, maybe made of slightly flexible material...maybe plastic...to my very specific needs to hold it down. Now....if only I had a way of making things out of plastic to my own design.

DOH!

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## curious aardvark

when i added the 3mm plate to my flashforge to make a flat bed, I just used 25mm kapton tape at the corners. 
Worked great for a couple of years. 

I did redo it all a while back. That's when i stuck the printbite down with the vinyl tape - that too had been held on with kapton tape. Think I still used the kapton tape at the corners for the aluminium to aluminium connection.

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## juankroi

which 3d printing surface would you recommend people?

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## curious aardvark

I recommend printbite. 
Once you get it dialled in - it's almost as good as the makers says it is :-)

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