# 3D Printing > 3D Printers (Hardware) >  Mpcnc

## Roberts_Clif

I have decided to build the V1 Engineering Piper.
Starting with a 36" square Wood base, to make room for a 34.4 inch X  34.4 inch Piper frame allowing for a print area of 4 cubic ft.

Largest 3D Print in ABS looks promising, with ABS shrinkage the ID for the Feet is 23.37 the conduit measurement is 23.5.
This means that very little finish work will need to be done in order to  assemble the Piper 3D Printer.

I setup the Printer nozzle to 228C with a bed temperature of 98C, first layer print speed 40 all remaining layers 76 percent.
This calculates to 8.5mm^3 per secound.


Room temp 72.7
Heated enclosure left side 32C
Heated enclosure Right Side 28C
Enclosure Vent Fans speed 70%

I have noted a distinctive difference between the SD card Print and the OctoLapse Print textures.

 



Time-lapse video

Noted: in the Photos above the model on right was printed with the SD Card While Model on the left within OctoPrint's Octolapse.
You will note a distinct texture difference. Will print another model  using same ABS filament with SD card to verify if smoothness returns.

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## curious aardvark

stick to the sd card :-)

So what sort of wattage motor, torque, rpm etc, can you run on this setup ? 

I'm rapidly thinking I might be better off with a small cnc machine than a cheap laser engraver. 
Can't afford a decent laser engraver and I'm fed up buying led style lasers, none of which work reliably anyway. 

So could maybe use the existing framework and fit a carriage for a dremel type rotary tool instead.
Guess it would need a bltouch style sensor to automatically set the z axis. And and up and downy z axis thingy. But other than that and a cheap shop vacumn setup, she's probably good to go. 

Damn wish i had a makerspace in the area - I need a couple of real anoracks to help me :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

I will be learning all the information as fast as I can, an will be posting links to all my sources of information.
Will try to keep everyone informed as to my processes. 

The Bill of materials shows between two links for purchase

Nema 17 Stepper Motor Bipolar 2A 84oz.in
Nema 17 Stepper Motor Bipola 1.5A 76oz.in

I think I will go with the 76Oz steppers. not much difference of torque will just operate a little slower.
Was planing on some Aluminum an wood engravings and maybe some simple Printed Circuit Boards.
May look a laser latter on but have not set in mind what.

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## curious aardvark

you're not using a stepper for the actual milling motor ?

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## Roberts_Clif

No! should I use one, I was thinking of something like this.

I will have a Dewalt Dw660 - Spiral Saw, 30,000 No Load RPM, 5.0 Amps @ 120V, Tool Length 10"

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## curious aardvark

lol glad about that :-)

Well stepper motorwise, you know what they say: nobody ever complained of too much power :-)
get the bigger ones :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

Today started to Assemble the MPCNC, I do not believe any of the measurements of the Hardware match the hardware purchased.
Will have to take the parts assembly to the Hardware store then match what is needed.

The measurements are wrong or the Store has all hardware in the wrong parts bins, or they measure the bolts differently somehow.

Bolts.jpg

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## curious aardvark

you using abs ? 
it will shrink so sizes are usually wrong enough to make a difference. 
One of the many reasons I gave up abs. 

Failing that - are you using mm or inches for sizing your bolts ? 
Even so called 'equivalences' rarely match up. 

One of those videos you linked to had a chap print all his bits, then go buy and cut the conduit, only to discover it was too large. 
Me I'd have printed one part, taken it to the hardware store and checked it agaisnt the existing conduit before either printing the rest of the parts or buying the conduit or cutting it. 

When I design parts I usually print cut down test pieces to make sure everything will fit when i print the full parts. 

I think over time you just develop better working habits based on previous cock-ups :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

After Printing the MPCNC Model Parts they were measured an have a error rate of within 1/2 percent, this means that all printed models are correctly printed.
What surprised me was that none of the models that actually Stayed stuck to the build plate showed signs of warping. 
Only a few had problems though these problems were not to adhesion they attributed to the Proximity sensor vibrating loose ...
This in turn changed the Z-Height causing the adhesion problem.

Had the most problems at the hardware store not correctly correctly placing the parts in the correct bins. 
Will need to be more careful and measure when returning for replacements.

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## curious aardvark

good luck - fascinated to see this thing working. :-)





> first layer print speed 40 all remaining layers 76 percent.


what does that actually mean as far as print speed goes - 76 percent of what ?

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## Roberts_Clif

As far as I can tell in Cura when you hover the cursor above the print speed 40% with my settings is 4.5mm^3 Per Second and 76% is 8.5mm^3 Per Second.

With a .4mm nozzle at a layer height of .28mm. It further States that the Print will complete at # of hours and it does.


Print Speed.jpg

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## curious aardvark

lol right. 
I'm used to print speeds being in mm/s - which  I can visualise. 
cubic mm per second on the other hand - just isn't something that's easy to understand. 

Interesting that it says an ultimaker can just about do 150mm/s. My ?200 delta can do that without any problems :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

It is sometimes confusing.
You can see it the previously posted Photo I am printing in the Yellow.
It clearly shows that printing over 8.0mm^3 Per second could cause filament slippage.
With my Settings that Max speed percentage is 71 being  8.0mm^3 Per second, an 72 being  8.1mm^3 Per second.
I have successfully printed many models at over 100% " (11.2mm^3 Per second) " using PLA though have yet to venture this on ABS.

I prefer to stay closer the upper limits I determined make the best Models. 8.0 - 9.6mm^3 Per second.

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## curious aardvark

you should be able to change the units to mm/s - I'd be interested to know what your actual print speed (not volume) actually is :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

I have never calculated it only took the numbers from Cura do you have a formula

Found this V=pi*radius^2*print speed = mm3/s.

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## curious aardvark

don't need a formula - cura will have an option to show either speed or volume. just switch to speed. see what it is and switch back :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

Assembled the Middle Assembly today still need the conduit to assembly the remaining frame Assemblies.

Middle Assembly.jpg

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## curious aardvark

neat :-)
Took a while to work out what goes where lol

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## Roberts_Clif

Found a problem with the MPCNC Design.

Bearing 1.jpg



You can see in the middle assembly, that the 5/16 bolt head and the  Bearing are touching, This will have to have thinner Bolt Head.
Will be Grinding about 1/2 the thickness of the bolt head away to allow the bearing to freely spin...


Bearing 2.jpg

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## Roberts_Clif

The build is going quite slowly, simply because when I started this  project, was hoping to use some of my spare 3D Printers parts.
This scenario is quickly proving not to be the case with the MPCNC carriage growing heavier than expected,.
Decided on the controller, drivers an lead screw. An Arduino Mega with Ramps 1.6, this one is equipped with a mosfet heat-sink
Decided to use the T8-2 lead screws this is a trapezoidal  8mm lead screw that has a pitch of 2mm per revolution.
 

As you can see the carriage has been assembled with a minor setback  again needing to order stronger steppers and a new T8-2 Lead-screw.
This by no means will stop me from partially assembling the MPCNC's  other components while I wait for the remaining parts to arrive.

*Assembled with a temporary 56oz Stepper an T8-8 Lead screw
*

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## Roberts_Clif

Today received the Arduino controller the Ramps 1.6 with five A4988 drivers modules.
Decided to upload a known Firmware Marlin 1.1.5 to test the the basics,  found that I needed a CH34X driver before it would allow an upload.

Marlin 1.1.5 with the controller an Ramps 1.6 an drivers modules boots,  however Marlin for MPCNC is going to need some firmware changes as it is  displaying garbage.
Will go over it very carefully to see what i missed.

Ok Missed the Full Graphics Boot Screen, works now.

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## curious aardvark

can you use grbl for this ? 

So much more user friendly than marlin (what isn't ?)

Other than that, looking good :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

> can you use grbl for this ? 
> 
> So much more user friendly than marlin (what isn't ?)
> 
> Other than that, looking good :-)


I can choose between Marlin and grbl for Cyclone. I just testing my Controller with Marlin will see about testing grblForCyclone real soon.

Today I received the five steppers motors, and setup a Ramps controller test, decided to start with a V-Ref of .450. Setup all steppers an preformed simple moves on X, Y, Z, X2 an Y2


Do you have a simple tutorial of why grbl is better 

Thank You

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## curious aardvark

Um, I use grbl on my laser engraver. Had no problems. 

The only machine I have with marlin on is the i3. And it is hands down the most unfriendly firmware I've ever come across. 
Doesn't even have a load filament option. 
So if there's a viable alternative to marlin - I will always go for that :-)

If there were any way to ut something else on the i3 - I would in a heartbeat. 
Repetier is great firmware, as is sailfish (what the replicator clones use). 
But marlin - just is horrible at every level. 

PLus lasergrbl will update the grbl firmware direct from itself. 
marlin you have to bugger about with ide - horrible software. 

I have yet to see any benefit of any kind to pissing about with marlin.

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## Roberts_Clif

1st Print on my MPCNC was a simple pen sketch of a Crown

IMG_2283.jpg


MPCNC (508mm X 762mm X 292mm)
2277.jpg

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## curious aardvark

lol you know that upside down crown looks like cleavage ? :-)

But proves it works ! 

So have you got a touch probe for depth/surface sensing - or just doing it by eye ? 

Impressed with the cat print ;-)
Does it also make aardvarks ?

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## Roberts_Clif

The crown was printed with-out end-stops, it will require a touch sensor of sorts.

I have not decided which one yet. suggestion on cheapest for the longest life.

Today I decide to test test main floor platform for level.
With ~6mm above the bed then lowered the Tool plate 6mm on all four corners an dead center the platform.
Being really close to the main floor platform here, took my filler gauges out and began measuring the height.
After comparing all five locations, deturmined that the MPCNC that I just built is measuring 0.06mm from level.

Knew I was being careful making my EMT Conduit cuts, but never ever expected that I was being this precise.
This is going to be is enough to mount a Large Aluminum Plate above the floor Platform, heated or not heated.
For 3D Printing large 508 X 762 X 292mm Models WoW! this is going to take a long, long, long, time to print.

A simple Benchy 4X size will take1 day with .4mm nozzle with a 1mm nozzle prints will take 5 1/2 hours.
This may be doable.

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## Roberts_Clif

Today my DC-DC Step Down Buck Converter 1.5V 3V 5V 9V 12V and Adjustable at 3 amps Modules came in.
I am now powering my ramps with a 20amp 24volt power supply.

I removed D1 replacing it with the output of the buck converter I  soldered the diode anode side to IN (24vdc) and soldered the diode  cathode side to VO leaving the GND terminal to be soldered to the Ramps  ground Power Connector.


 
  I did not install a DC-DC Step Down Buck Converter Module set to 5volts to replace the AMS1117-5.0 at this time
This was on my agenda so I could use the full graphics controller that draws to much current from AMS1117-5.0.

Will do this after the Full graphics controller arrives.

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## curious aardvark

I just like end stops for endstops. Cheap, reliable etc. 

But for something like that - you really need to go the optical route, just for bragging rights, if nothing else :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

> I just like end stops for endstops. Cheap, reliable etc. 
> 
> But for something like that - you really need to go the optical route, just for bragging rights, if nothing else :-)


This would be a great ideal if the MPCNC was only going to be used for 3D Printing an laser engraving.
Though I wonder if I could keep them clean when carving wood or milling aluminum.

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## Roberts_Clif

Today I duplicated my DC-DC Step Down Buck Converter to my Spare Ramps  1.6 board. I am now powering both ramps with 24volt power supplies.

Have not ordered a pair of Full Graphics controllers for my newly purchased Arduino Mega 2560 R3's and Ramps.
Though it is still on my list of parts to be ordered.

My next modification will be to remove the AMS1117-5.0 regulator on the  Arduino and replace it with this same DC-DC Step Down Buck Converter.  This time instead of setting it to a variable voltage will be using the  set 5 volt jumper pin on the converter.

This will allow for the additional power requirements needed to operate  the Full Graphics controller I will be using. All power supplied from a  single 24vdc power source from the Ramps 1.6 controller power pins...

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## Roberts_Clif

Today I believe I have the Estlcam figured out I printed a more complex sketch.
I went off the paper on the feet

Sena.jpg

After printing this sketch believe ready to setup a extra Stepper motor Driver for my Ramps 1.6 for the extruder.
Will be looking a this Stepper motor Expander
Has any one ever tried these Stepper motor expanders

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## Roberts_Clif

Today I was wiring end-stop switches using this video on my Arduino Mega 2560 R3 an Ramps 1.6 making sure the wire were exactly the same as the video.

Well I blew the AMS1117-05 in a heartbeat so today I replace the AMS1117-05 with a DC-DC Step Down Buck Converter 1.5V 3V 5V 9V 12V 3A Adjustable Module  this was set to the 5V jumper.
DC-DC down converter.jpg

My question is why did this switch made by BigTree-Tech.com for maker bot kill the AMS1117-05, tested the switch it operated correctly.

I must be right at the max current limit for the regulator because when I power it on with the new regulator is now works correctly.

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## curious aardvark

> This would be a great ideal if the MPCNC was only going to be used for 3D Printing an laser engraving.
> Though I wonder if I could keep them clean when carving wood or milling aluminum.


well yeah, that's why you've installed a workshop vacumn and suction tubing alongside the cutting head - right :-)

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## Roberts_Clif

> well yeah, that's why you've installed a workshop vacumn and suction tubing alongside the cutting head - right :-)


Well actually I just ordered the Dewalt DW660 so I have quite a few more parts to be 3D Printed.

 Vacuum Duct
Frame Supports // Frame is not as sturdy as I would like it.
Cable chains
Power Supply case
Arduino, Ramps Case
ect, ect ect.

An forgive me but some of the thinner newly printed ABS models are quite fragile, this resemble older plastic that has degraded by weather.
Will need to reprint them, maybe this time in PLA.

Good thing is that the Dewalt will be showing up today and I will be able to actually be able cut something. Will start out with something weak like a piece of pink insulation.
Then work up to some softwoods that I have laying around, and ending with hardwoods to get an ideal how fast that the cuter will work.

At this time I have given some thought as to the size of the hot bed 400mm X 600mm will need to see if I can make it a reality Now.

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## curious aardvark

https://www.amazon.com/Vacmaster-Gal...ateway&sr=8-11

that would do you. 

but don't cut anything without vacumn. any kind of fine wood, metal or paper dust should not be breathed in.

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## Roberts_Clif

Actually I have a Bucket Head Vacuum you can use any 5 gallon bucket.

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## Roberts_Clif

Today I decide to test test main floor platform for level.
With ~6mm above the bed then lowered the Tool plate 6mm on all four corners an dead center the platform.
Being really close to the main floor platform here, took my filler gauges out and began measuring the height.
After comparing all five locations, deturmined that the MPCNC that I just built is measuring 0.06mm from level.

Knew I was being careful making my EMT Conduit cuts, but never ever expected that I was being this precise.
This is going to be is enough to mount a Large Aluminum Plate above the floor Platform, heated or not heated.
For 3D Printing large 508 X 762 X 292mm Models WoW! this is going to take a long, long, long, time to print.

A simple Benchy 4X size will take1 day with .4mm nozzle with a 1mm nozzle prints will take 5 1/2 hours.
This may be doable.

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## Roberts_Clif

I am still looking for a Control case, the one I found and 3D Printed is  in fact a horrible 3D Printing Control case, it is so thin you can  virtually see thew it.
And I do do want to waste my time with such a horribly Thin Control  case, in fact do not believe it would survive very long and not protect  the controller.

I have found some Anwenk 1/4"-20 x 15mm Furniture Screw in Nut Threaded  Wood Inserts and have install an placed 32 of the them in the CNC main  Deck.








Now I can fasten anything with a simple clamp that is 3D Printed or CNC  milled using many type of material. First I still want to Find a  Controller Case.

One NOTE: Because I decided to make my MPCNC so tall, the power cable on  the Dewalt must be carefully positioned or it will cause the Z-Axis too  bind on the X or Y max borders.
I decided, I need to get My MPCNC running. So for a quick fix I am going to quickly 3D Print this. 
There is a few modification that I believe should be made while the good  parts print, I can modify the pieces that want changes on.

[www.thingiverse.com]


Changed the Front Panel to say "My MPCNC" stl Attached.


Printing a temporary Controller case will then be doing the finishing touches.

Will start with learning how to Use Auto Cad Fusion 360 to setup tool paths for MPCNC.
Knew I had more learning to Do with Fusion 360 Free for hobbyist. Time to get back to YouTube and start learning fast.

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## curious aardvark

looking good :-)
The tool path thing is interesting. 
Is there an equivalent to a slicer for cnc ?

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## Roberts_Clif

Oh Yes! 

There are many free and paid alike, maybe even more than for 3D Printers.

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## Roberts_Clif

Hello again;;

I discovered today that the longer Stepper motor cables I purchased from California.
Are in fact being shipped from mainland china, so it will be quite some time before I see the parts if ever.

How is it that E-Bay continues allow this to happen, as many times as we have all complained this should have stop.

May have to buy spares from somewhere else to be able to finish the MPCNC build.

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## curious aardvark

well you could do what I do and just make your own.
I use these to make cables of different lengths. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elegoo-120p...teway&sr=8-104

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## Daniel-J

I will soon be buying machines, the laser does not always work well according to different reviews. What about them? I think they are more reliable, but I can't say for sure because I don't have enough experience with them.

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## Roberts_Clif

> you're not using a stepper for the actual milling motor ?


Think I missed this question.

No I am using a  Dewalt DW660

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## viewcart

It is going to depend entirely on what you plan to do with the cnc. Basically the most you can get out of any hobby cnc is some mild work on aluminium (This is at the extreme end and you kind of have to have a very good understanding of machining to get something like that to do anything that is hard.)If your serious about machining metals you have to spend the cash and or understand the processes behind it to DIY it.If it is just for soft materials it again will require some understanding to begin with. As you learn more you will break and or muck up less things.

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