# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > Other 3D Printers / Scanners / Hardware > Kudo3D Titan 1 >  Surface Smoothness

## jon@kudo3D

The mini rings photo on the campaign page is a 20 times blow up. If there is anything that your bare eye can detect, this photo should capture it. This is about the best we can achieve without lens modification. We do observe inconsistent surface smoothness for different printed rings, and it may be caused by the material stress. The ring with 10mm diameter has a material volume of only 40 mm-square. 

The accumulative stress may not be high enough to cause relaxation. Please remember that the resin is still reacting even after the light is removed so shrinking is a continuous process during printing. To further improve the smoothness at high resolution, using the right type of resin is key. Low shrinkage is very important, otherwise, you could see the horizontal lines pop up when the cured resin relax its accumulative stress. Softer material may delay or prevent sudden relaxation of the material. Supports also have impact on how the cured resin moves after relaxation. This is the most likely reason for the occasional lines you see. 

Please share your thoughts!

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## Hedrus

The post on the board here is missing the images.  From the email they look amazing.  Especially the head.  The head seems to be completely smooth with no visible lines at all.  What was the Z resolution on the head?  Also what type of resin was used?  Was it soft like you mentioned above?  

From what you said above, would softer more flexible resins have less visible lines from lack of shrinkage and visible stress from layers?  These things should be documented so we can figure out the best resins and settings to get smooth surfaces.

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## jon@kudo3D

Hi Hedrus - thanks for the comment. For the images, please refer to:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...n/posts/861662

Softer materials with the same shrinkage level would help.  Materials with less resolution also help smooth out the surface.   The angel is printed with XYZ 0.1 mm resolution using Makerjuice subG+, which is not soft at all.   Horizontal lines happens more frequently on models with repeated patterns such as a square or a cylinder.  We wish we could give an exact answer about the cause of the horizontal lines, but it could be a result of multiple factors.  We will definitely conduct more research in the future about the unpredictable lines. Thanks again!

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## abrahamalincoln

Jon, I'd still like to see an example like the ring Russ Charles showed in the Kickstarter comments. It was off an EnvisionTEC machine. I really want to see what small text looks like. How sharp is it? I know you guys are super busy but I think a lot of us would appreciate it when you get a chance. Thanks!

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## jon@kudo3D

Hi Abrahamalincoln - We have been having a hard time to find a stl file that has a similar ring (also with the right license to print). 

Does anyone else have any suggestions or files to share?

Thanks!

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## Hugues

This is quite impressive. At the moment i'm printing with filament extrusion, and well, the surface finish is not quite ok to make parts for my motorbike. I also tried with ABS but it shrinks a lot. Functional parts not visible inside the bike, fine.

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## Hugues

Not that i think it's needed, but if you have a few tiny bumps on your final part, could one spray a very fine layer of resin onto the finish part and cure it right away under a UV lamp ?

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## Hedrus

> Hi Abrahamalincoln - We have been having a hard time to find a stl file that has a similar ring (also with the right license to print). 
> 
> Does anyone else have any suggestions or files to share?
> 
> Thanks!


Post on here if you are having trouble finding anything.  I am a 3d artist.  I can make a ring with text on it in a few minutes if you need something.  You could even give me a reference image to match.  something like that would take a few minutes.  

Kenzie

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## Hedrus

> Not that i think it's needed, but if you have a few tiny bumps on your final part, could one spray a very fine layer of resin onto the finish part and cure it right away under a UV lamp ?


Couldn't you just use a self leveling primer spray paint?

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## jon@kudo3D

Hugues and Kenzie - you are both correct. Any paint or coating will smooth out the surface but will come at the expense of resolution.   The thicker the paint, the more resolution will be lost. 

Kenzie - thanks for the offer for the design!

https://grabcad.com/library/graduation-ring

We are going to contact the designer for permission. Would this ring work for you guys? Please let us know.

Thanks everyone!

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## abrahamalincoln

I was just on GrabCad searching as well. There are also a few 3dm files that I could convert as well. Let me know if the artist has a problem with it and I'll sen you another stl with artist info. 




> Hugues and Kenzie - you are both correct. Any paint or coating will smooth out the surface but will come at the expense of resolution.   The thicker the paint, the more resolution will be lost. 
> 
> Kenzie - thanks for the offer for the design!
> 
> https://grabcad.com/library/graduation-ring
> 
> We are going to contact the designer for permission. Would this ring work for you guys? Please let us know.
> 
> Thanks everyone!

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## JDK3D

> Hi Abrahamalincoln - We have been having a hard time to find a stl file that has a similar ring (also with the right license to print). 
> 
> Does anyone else have any suggestions or files to share?
> 
> Thanks!


I could design something.. here's a simple band with text. The dot over the I is the smallest feature...about  0.21 x 0.24mm.titan1 ring.jpg not practical for casting but it will print.

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## abrahamalincoln

I say have at it if the Kudo team will use it. Did you see the one on the Kickstarter comments? It was pretty much perfect because it showed depth, text on different planes, etc. Here's the link: http://image.cn.made-in-china.com/2f...1;机.jpg




> I could design something.. here's a simple band with text. The dot over the I is the smallest feature...about  0.21 x 0.24mm.titan1 ring.jpg not practical for casting but it will print.

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## jon@kudo3D

Thanks everyone for the help, especially JDK3D for the design! We actually got permission from the designer of the graduation ring (https://grabcad.com/library/graduation-ring). 

We will get this printed asap and will update to see your feedback.

JDK3D - if you still don't mind, we would love to send over Kudo3D's logo for you to incorporate in the design. We can print it after the design is ready. Thanks so much and I'll message you through Kickstarter!

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## rikj

Hi jon@kudo3D. I am interested in your printer for jewelry as well. I can email you 2-3 "generic" files to test print. I will try and email you now. 
Regards,
Rik

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## rikj

Hi Jon. I tried email you but obviously have the wrong email address. I have been training in CAD for Jewelry design for over 9-years. Used many 3D printers in that time from $65k+ down to $5k. I would be interested in you trying some sample ring designs. They are my own which I use for training purposes, so you are free to test print, photograph and use them how you see fit. If you can advise an email address I will email you a zip file containing 3 x STL's to test print.
Regards, Rikj

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## jon@kudo3D

Hi Rikj,

Thanks for your message - please email jonathancheung@kudo3d.com. We will try our best to get to them!

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## rikj

Hi Jon,

The print orf the Grad Ring looks great! - Fantastic detail wit the lens mod.
I have emailed you 3 x typical ring STL's. Would be great to see images on 1-2 of them when you guys get a chance.




> Hi Rikj,
> 
> Thanks for your message - please email jonathancheung@kudo3d.com. We will try our best to get to them!

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## jon@kudo3D

Thanks, Rikj! Yes we will get on it asap!

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## vchmiele

The 25 micron ring looks great. Can you share the amount of pigment that you added to the resin for this resolution (what layer thickness too). Also, approximately how long did you cure the resin?

Thanks

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## Roberta3D

Many of you were asking to see results of modifying the lens. Thank you for helping us select this graduation ring to print. We were able to achieve XY resolution of 26 microns and Z layer thickness of 25 microns after the lens modification. 
Grad_ring.jpg
Designed by Jonathan Iyar (Graduation Ring)

The photo below has a strand of hair as a reference point:
Grad ring close up.jpg
Designed by Jonathan Iyar (Graduation Ring)
Please share your thoughts with us!

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## abrahamalincoln

> Many of you were asking to see results of modifying the lens. Thank you for helping us select this graduation ring to print. We were able to achieve XY resolution of 26 microns and Z layer thickness of 25 microns after the lens modification. 
> Grad_ring.jpg
> Designed by Jonathan Iyar (Graduation Ring)
> 
> The photo below has a strand of hair as a reference point:
> Grad ring close up.jpg
> Designed by Jonathan Iyar (Graduation Ring)
> Please share your thoughts with us!


I'm truly blown away by how smooth the surface is. I mean, the detail looks fantastic but I was hoping for that. I had no idea the surface was going to be that smooth!

So with the lens modification, how big is the build area? I assume it's smaller correct? Also,how long of a process is it to modify the lens and then to get it back to stock ie: I'm printing something large, after that is done I want to print some jewelry and the go back to large items. How long does the switch take?

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## jon@kudo3D

> The 25 micron ring looks great. Can you share the amount of pigment that you added to the resin for this resolution (what layer thickness too). Also, approximately how long did you cure the resin?
> 
> Thanks


The pigment concentration is about 2-3 % and the exposure time is 1 second. Thanks!

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## jon@kudo3D

> I'm truly blown away by how smooth the surface is. I mean, the detail looks fantastic but I was hoping for that. I had no idea the surface was going to be that smooth!
> 
> So with the lens modification, how big is the build area? I assume it's smaller correct? Also,how long of a process is it to modify the lens and then to get it back to stock ie: I'm printing something large, after that is done I want to print some jewelry and the go back to large items. How long does the switch take?


Thanks! The build area is 28 mm x 50 mm. The four corners do show some spherical aberration. Yes, with effective high resolution, the build area will be smaller. It look us about 45 minutes to modify the lens. In term of switching time, it's simply moving the projector and adjusting the focus again.

Hope this helps!

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## vchmiele

I know that the B9 Creator needed to add a gasket behind the lens to keep out dust (after adding spacers). Is this something that you will provide, or will this need to be sourced/created individually?

Also, when you say 2-3% pigment do you mean 2-3% by weight? For example if I have 1 liter of SubG+  (unpigmented) how much red resin would I need to add?

Thanks!

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## jon@kudo3D

> I know that the B9 Creator needed to add a gasket behind the lens to keep out dust (after adding spacers). Is this something that you will provide, or will this need to be sourced/created individually?
> 
> Also, when you say 2-3% pigment do you mean 2-3% by weight? For example if I have 1 liter of SubG+  (unpigmented) how much red resin would I need to add?
> 
> Thanks!


If there is no special need,  we don’t recommend modifying lens.  Lens modification is not part of the standard printer that we will be shipping.  We are not currently supporting a gasket unless there is enough demand for us to customize a part in the future.   The gap can be simply covered with black electric tape. 

It's actually 2-3% in volume but yes it should be close to 2-3% by weight too. Thanks!

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## vchmiele

Is Kudo3D planning to software features that address the light decay of the projector bulb?

The latest beta software for the B9 Creator has some interesting technique that look promising.

http://b9creator.com/support/?mingle...4#postid-17621

I also know that Envisiontec has similar calibration procedures that ensure even output across the build platform.

In general it would be nice to know how the software will work. Overcure for unsupported voxels, perimeter cure, etc...

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## jon@kudo3D

> Is Kudo3D planning to software features that address the light decay of the projector bulb?
> 
> The latest beta software for the B9 Creator has some interesting technique that look promising.
> 
> http://b9creator.com/support/?mingle...4#postid-17621
> 
> I also know that Envisiontec has similar calibration procedures that ensure even output across the build platform.
> 
> In general it would be nice to know how the software will work. Overcure for unsupported voxels, perimeter cure, etc...


@ vchmiele - We will definitely do a deeper dive into those issues in the near future.  Surface smoothness has more to do with the resin, structure of the model and supports, and of course the resolution but not much with the software.    Without correcting spherical aberration of the lens,  there is not much meaning to normalize the output intensity from the projector.  Even after normalization, the focal points still do not lie on a flat plane, and the image is blurred at the four corners.   Normalization will also end up with longer exposure time.  A high-end lens system that removes most of the aberration could be more expensive than the HD projector that Titan 1 uses.  This is not the market we are targeting now.   We also don’t recommend edge curing because we don’t see much performance improvement by trading off printing speed.  However, if users need very high precision or accuracy,  all of the software improvements plus high-end hardware are required (it would be more like a machine like Envisiontec with a $50,000 + price tag). 

Thanks for the suggestions!

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## Valter

Hi all. I'm curious about kudo3d working for action figures and statuettes prodution. I'm planning work with resin casting to make pieces with 20cm to 30cm. I think printing some separate part to further make some post prodution (sanding and polish) and the final assemble to make mold casting.
My question are:
Will I have a hard post prodution of parts printed?
Could I 3D printing that parts with 26 microns always?
Will Kudo3d works fine to my purpose?

Thanks

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## jon@kudo3D

> Hi all. I'm curious about kudo3d working for action figures and statuettes prodution. I'm planning work with resin casting to make pieces with 20cm to 30cm. I think printing some separate part to further make some post prodution (sanding and polish) and the final assemble to make mold casting.
> My question are:
> Will I have a hard post prodution of parts printed?
> Could I 3D printing that parts with 26 microns always?
> Will Kudo3d works fine to my purpose?
> 
> Thanks


Hi Valter - thanks for your interest. The build volume is 70mm x 40mm x 240mm at 37 micron resolution. The build volume is 192mm x 108mm x 240mm at 100 micron resolution. 26 microns would only be possible with the lens modification (users will have to do the modification themselves). Thanks!

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## jon@kudo3D

> Hi Valter - thanks for your interest. The build volume is 70mm x 40mm x 240mm at 37 micron resolution. The build volume is 192mm x 108mm x 240mm at 100 micron resolution. 26 microns would only be possible with the lens modification (users will have to do the modification themselves). Thanks!


Hi Valter -  Additionally, you would need the ABS like material for post processing. Thanks and please let us know if we can help with any other questions!

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## Valter

> Hi Valter -  Additionally, you would need the ABS like material for post processing. Thanks and please let us know if we can help with any other questions!


Hi jon. Thanks the opportunity.  Do you mean that's 3d resin objects not support sanding or polish? Please, let me be more clear. I need have a master object with perfect detailed and smooth surface for make RTV molding casting with poliurethan resin. I'm thinking to 3d print a solid (not hollow) separated parts sanding and polish very well to start RTV mold casting process to make many copies.

Thank you.

P.S.: Excuse my grammar.

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## jon@kudo3D

> Hi jon. Thanks the opportunity.  Do you mean that's 3d resin objects not support sanding or polish? Please, let me be more clear. I need have a master object with perfect detailed and smooth surface for make RTV molding casting with poliurethan resin. I'm thinking to 3d print a solid (not hollow) separated parts sanding and polish very well to start RTV mold casting process to make many copies.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> P.S.: Excuse my grammar.


Hi Valter,

ABS-like resin will support sanding and polishing.  We are in the process of certifying ABS-like resin and will keep you posted! Thank you again for your interest!

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## Valter

> Hi Valter,
> 
> ABS-like resin will support sanding and polishing.  We are in the process of certifying ABS-like resin and will keep you posted! Thank you again for your interest!


Hmmm. Great. But now I'm with a doubt. Actually that usually 3d resin could be sanding and polish with a lot care or it's impossible to make a sanding and polish them (risk to break or crack)?

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## jon@kudo3D

> Hmmm. Great. But now I'm with a doubt. Actually that usually 3d resin could be sanding and polish with a lot care or it's impossible to make a sanding and polish them (risk to break or crack)?


@ Valter - apologies for the delay. We missed this message.  3D Materials' ABS-like resin and Fun To Do's industrial blend are both strong enough to be polished and sanded. Thanks!

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## Hedrus

Neither 3D-Materials' ABS-like or Fun To Do's industrial blend are listed on their respective websites.  Are they both really new formulas that haven't been officially released yet?

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## jon@kudo3D

> Neither 3D-Materials' ABS-like or Fun To Do's industrial blend are listed on their respective websites.  Are they both really new formulas that haven't been officially released yet?


@ Hedrus - we will ask Fun To Do about their website. Here's 3D materials: http://www.3d-materials.org/#!3d-resins/vstc3=3d-gray

Thanks!

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## Hedrus

That's interesting that on the 3D-materials site the abs like material is opaque gray and the one you guys used to print the U shape thing and lego looking objects were translucent orange.  I like the opaque gray better.  Thanks for the link.

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