# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  E3Dv6 vs hexagon

## adamfilip

Can someone enlighten me as to what makes the E3Dv6 better then the stock Hexagon Makerfarm uses

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## printbus

I ran into this a while ago. Its really written for a different printer, but has some comparison info - http://forums.robo3dprinter.com/inde...d-review.3407/

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## adamfilip

Looks like the advantage goes to the PTFE tube, but i use 3mm filament.. 
with 3mm does it still use the PTFE tube?

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## printbus

Someone else will have to answer that.

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## usarmyaircav

Out on their website I found this -  (PTFE Liner only present in 1.75mm version - 3mm Bowden has partial lining - 3mm Direct has no lining) - See more at: http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6/Full-Ki....rW3dcg1l.dpuf

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## jimc

only the 3mm bowden has a partial lining. 3mm direct has no lining. the bore on the hexagon is tight. it will will be more prone to jamming. from what i read its 1.8mm. you have to keep in mind also that plastic expands when it gets hot so 1.75mm filament for example very well might just make it down the bore without a jam. if you hit a spot that is 1.77-1.78 your done for. im not sure why they made it so tight. most hot end bores are 2mm. of course i know you have 3mm but i would assume the same would hold true with that.

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## gmay3

> only the 3mm bowden has a partial lining. 3mm direct has no lining. the bore on the hexagon is tight. it will will be more prone to jamming. from what i read its 1.8mm. you have to keep in mind also that plastic expands when it gets hot so 1.75mm filament for example very well might just make it down the bore without a jam. if you hit a spot that is 1.77-1.78 your done for. im not sure why they made it so tight. most hot end bores are 2mm. of course i know you have 3mm but i would assume the same would hold true with that.


That's an interesting point jimc, from what I can tell, on my 1.75mm hexagon at the top there is a brass colored separate piece that has a slotted screw driver slot on it. Has anyone tried to remove this to make the opening of the hexagon wider? Does the width increase past this opening?

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## printbus

> ...the bore on the hexagon is tight. it will will be more prone to jamming. from what i read its 1.8mm. you have to keep in mind also that plastic expands when it gets hot so 1.75mm filament for example very well might just make it down the bore without a jam. if you hit a spot that is 1.77-1.78 your done for. im not sure why they made it so tight. most hot end bores are 2mm...


This is why I provided the earlier link. I've had multiple rolls of 1.75 PLA with bumps in the 1.80 to 1.90 range.  I continue to believe that this is a more common reason for filament "jamming" than people realize.  I put an E3Dv6 on the budgetary wish list as soon as I read it could accept filament larger diameter than the hex.

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## jimc

i dont have a hex and have never seen one in person so im not sure what can be done. i can say that i have had an e3dv5 and now a v6. i love both of them. the v6 is even nicer. i never have a jam, the hotend never starts getting cruddy and tight inside where i need to clean it out (like the old peek/brass tube ones). the e3d just keeps goin and goin without a hitch. i run my printer 20hrs a day 7 days a week. the e3d has been on there for months.

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## usarmyaircav

jimc what are you using for a mount to the extruder?  When I bought my makerfarm I really wanted to skip the hexagon and go with an E3d, but couldn't verify that a printed mount I found on thingiverse would work or not.

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## jimc

unfortunately im not running a makerfarm printer. i have a makergear m2 but here is a link to the whole extruder setup i made. i have no idea if this can be adapted to your printer.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:344950

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## usarmyaircav

Probably not by me  :Smile:

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## beerdart

PTFE lining in any hot-end is asking for trouble.

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## AbuMaia

I use the regular Greg's Hinged Extruder that came with my Makerfarm kit with my E3Dv6, though I did buy E3D's groovemount plate to use instead of Makerfarm's wood one.  

I've been wanting to switch to the Hexagon hotend to use clough42's dual extruder, but if it's narrower inside than the E3D, that gives me pause.




> PTFE lining in any hot-end is asking for trouble.


I've had no trouble with the lining in my E3D. It stops above the heatbreak, so it shouldn't get hot enough to be a problem.

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## beerdart

Shouldn't is the key word.

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## jimc

yes the ptfe in the e3d is out of the hot zone. even if i crank my temp up to 265 and unplug the cooling fan leaving it just sit there for 1/2hr the heat doesnt creep up the hot end. the cooling fins are only warm. you can hold it in your hand. its not like the old hotends with peek and ptfe liner

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## beerdart

My point is there is no reason to use a liner. My hot end is home made out of drilled threaded rod and a drilled brass acorn nut. Its not rocket science there is a hot end and a cold end. I don't get all the hype of all the "Cool" looking hot ends.. Maybe im just a cheep old fart.. LOL

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## jimc

believe me i thought the same thing as you but there is a massive difference in performance. its in keeping the hot zone as short as possible to have better control of the filament. going from a oldschool hot end with a drilled brass tube to the e3d i was able to cut my retraction and ooze controls easily in half. prints are cleaner, less oozing and more responsive all the way around.

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## beerdart

Good to know Jim Ill have to bite the bullet and try the newer "cool" hotend. I just dont see the logic.

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## TopJimmyCooks

I'm considering drilling out a couple of Hex nozzles to make the two step constriction down to the nozzle aperture like the E3d has.  Anybody done this?  Any data out there on whether this feature really helps anything or not?  hard to tell.  it's easy to do with a drill press and a vise.

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## Bulletproofrt

I've done it. My hex measured 1.93mm and would jam all the time. Bored out to 1.99mm and added support from hobbed bolt to brass nipple(empty ball point pen tube) now it just prints. Pretty much start it and forget it with ABL. Careful with drill press and small bits, I trashed one hot end.

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## TopJimmyCooks

i'm running a 3mm setup.  I would just be drilling out the actual nozzles.  I think I'll be ok on the body of the Hexagon itself.  I've never had a filament size related jam (or any jam) on the 3mm jhead with .50 nozzle, hopefully the hexagons perform as well.

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## lovincup

Both the Makerfarm wooden and aluminum groove mount are a little too thin to provide adequate contact between the top of the e3dv6 and the recess in the bottom of the accessible extruder. The result is the e3dv6 is loose and not firmly secured to the x carriage. (you can wiggle it with your hand). This was easily overcome by printing an ABS shim (effectively a printed washer) and placing it in the recess in the bottom of the extruder. It gets sandwiched between extruder and the hotend. Perfectly secured now. I have the Direct Drive 3MM e3dv6 and the wooden x carraige.

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## sniffle

I just ordered an E3V6... i'm tired of tiny tiny imperfections in the filament jamming... when i say tiny i mean tiny...



I don't have a drill rpess so i will probably making a trip to see a machinist about boring the hexagon to a full 2 mm I am planning on building a kossel i'll use it for that :-)

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## TopJimmyCooks

interested in more information on hexagon jams - especially 3mm.  what brand/type of filament, etc.  

I might polish and blueprint the bore if there's enough feedback on issues.  I didn't put it under a microscope, but the bore looked good to the naked eye.

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## sniffle

mine are 1.75

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## Bulletproofrt

FYI, after boring body of hex I had one other jam. I figured it was because of the square step at the tip causing outside edge of filament to peel back into transition zone so I drilled into tip 1/8 - 3/16 with same #47 bit to give it a stepped profile. After a week of printing not a single jam yet. I wasn't able to get 3-5 layers down before. I believe the the liner i made to go into body of extruder helped a lot also as they are made for 3mm.

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## bkmartin

> Both the Makerfarm wooden and aluminum groove mount are a little too thin to provide adequate contact between the top of the e3dv6 and the recess in the bottom of the accessible extruder. The result is the e3dv6 is loose and not firmly secured to the x carriage. (you can wiggle it with your hand). This was easily overcome by printing an ABS shim (effectively a printed washer) and placing it in the recess in the bottom of the extruder. It gets sandwiched between extruder and the hotend. Perfectly secured now. I have the Direct Drive 3MM e3dv6 and the wooden x carraige.


I can swivel my hexagon 1.75 by hand.  Is it not supposed to swivel?

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## printbus

> I can swivel my hexagon 1.75 by hand.  Is it not supposed to swivel?


I wanted mine snug to minimize the chance it could wobble back and forth at all as the movement direction changed.  I added a few layers of kapton tape to the round end of the hot end as required, trimming out a round hole for the filament to feed through.

I didn't think the hex hot end fit in the grooved plate as well as it could have.

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## sniffle

well, i might have just killed my hexagon or fixed it... I got fed up with dealing with the jams today so i took a 5/64 bit and ran down it which between my hands and general slop of a hand drill should be close to 2mm in diameter now, it definitely took a tiny bit of metal out but not a lot.  btw 5/64 converts to 1.98mm :-)

I have a E3d V6 coming tomorrow of wed, so i wasnt super concerned if i screwed up too bad because i already have a replacement coming

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## rhonal89

How is that E3D V6 coming out. I just started having jams printing PLA. And the prints are not coming out great.




> well, i might have just killed my hexagon or fixed it... I got fed up with dealing with the jams today so i took a 5/64 bit and ran down it which between my hands and general slop of a hand drill should be close to 2mm in diameter now, it definitely took a tiny bit of metal out but not a lot.  btw 5/64 converts to 1.98mm :-)
> 
> I have a E3d V6 coming tomorrow of wed, so i wasnt super concerned if i screwed up too bad because i already have a replacement coming

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## sniffle

Ive gotten a couple jams but it was my own fault for trying to print so hot that the pla was expanding a great deal as soon as it hit the heat break... Once i cooled it down to a more reasonable temp it worked just fine :-)  silly me trying to print pla crazy hot(250) to get a higher shine out of it...

It has otherwise been a great hotemd that i have had little to no trou le out of at all...

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## clough42

In a year of printing and maybe 10kg of filament, I haven't had a jam yet with my three hexagons.  What I do wish for is better ooze control.  In a dual extruder setup, it's very difficult to prevent ooze from the non-printing nozzle--especially with long layer times, models that leave one extruder idle for many layers and specialty filaments like NinjaFlex.

Is the E3Dv6 better than the Hexagon in this respect, or is it just a feed/jam improvement?

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## sniffle

I haven't had enough calibrated dual printing prints to give you an honest answer yet.

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## clough42

> I haven't had enough calibrated dual printing prints to give you an honest answer yet.


Any more comments on the oozing with the E3d, now that you've had some time with it?

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## zx81

I've got 2 hexagon hotends, 3mm with 0.4 nozzle .. I chose the Hexagon over the e3d because it was cheaper and there was no ptfe lining tube. my previous hotend had the lining and it caused all sorts of problems

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## voodoo28

I can say after using the E3D with your dual flex for over 4 months...oozing is not an issue....using some simple retraction settings in S3D.
A new Feature in S3D is the ooze shield, specifically designed for dual extruders.


> Any more comments on the oozing with the E3d, now that you've had some time with it?

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## jimc

When i moved from a traditional hot end to the e3d i was able to cut my ooze control settings in half. The hot zone on the e3d is so sharp and short its not funny. I have way better control with it. I dont know how it compares to the hex however. As for the ptfe, its not in the hot zone so neve gets exposed to real high temps. I had an all metal v5 and i can say the ptfe liner is way better.

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## clough42

> When i moved from a traditional hot end to the e3d i was able to cut my ooze control settings in half. The hot zone on the e3d is so sharp and short its not funny. I have way better control with it. I dont know how it compares to the hex however. As for the ptfe, its not in the hot zone so neve gets exposed to real high temps. I had an all metal v5 and i can say the ptfe liner is way better.





> I can say after using the E3D with your dual flex for over 4 months...oozing is not an issue....using some simple retraction settings in S3D.
> A new Feature in S3D is the ooze shield, specifically designed for dual extruders.


Are you using 3mm or 1.75mm filament?  I have heard rumors that there's a difference wrt oozing.

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## jimc

1.75 for me. i would imagine that 3mm would be worse in any situation or hot end. ooze is all from pressure. a higher mass of heated expanding plastic makes for more pressure and more pressure that needs to be relieved.

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## voodoo28

1.75 here...with liner in the extruder block and hot end

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## clough42

Hmm...3mm and 1.75mm should be the same in terms of pressure, since the same diameter that increases the melt volume also increases the retract volume.  I suspect the real difference comes in terms of viscosity.  In the smaller bore, the melted filament will have a much harder time flowing around the air bubble pulled in by retraction.  It'll be much easier in a 3mm bore for the filament to flow around the bubble and ooze.

Is there anyone who has tried both and can compare?  I've got an awful lot of 3mm filament to make the jump.

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