# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  10" Pegasus Build

## flatty_420

Howdy, I've been lurking for a while now and I've finally pulled the trigger and ordered a 10" Pegasus. Since I am not seeing a whole lot of info about these yet I thought I'd post my experience with building the kit. I am a complete novice, having done nothing but read forums and watch youtube videos so far. So lets get started, shall we?

Yesterday I went and picked up my kit which I had ordered from Makerfarm. I ordered the printer kit with a single extruder with e3d-v6 hot end instead of the lite version, graphical lcd, and I also upgraded the X, Y, Z Motor Mounts, X idler and X carriage to Metal. When I opened the package I found everything well protected and well wrapped along with a checklist to make sure everything was in the package.



And here's what all the parts look like once unpacked...




And here is my contribution over and above what the comes in the kit:





You will have to stay patient with me as I'm busy trying to keep a business afloat and busy with lots of kids so I may only get an update or two per day as opposed to a marathon build to the end. Everything looks to be in order as far as the kit goes and next I will start putting together the frame as per the instructions. Chow for now.

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## Dustin B

Return the fire blanket if you can.  My attempt to use it was a disaster.  I highly recommend the felt I used in my thread though.  Single layer of the 1/4" stuff could just be cut and used.

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## BLKKROW

I will be watching. A little birdie told me they may be making a 12" Pegasus soon once that comes out I am buying a second printer.

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## Adamseye

OMG my wanhao just fried it's wiring, 2 month old. So I found the pegasus 10 and reading about maker farm putting out a good product. Now look here, a thread in the forums talking just about that very printer!

Congrats on your purchase, have fun building!

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## flatty_420

Alrighty then, I will start assembling the frame as per the build instructions. First little bundle of parts required are gathered as shown.



The hardware gets installed into the brackets.



And the brackets into the long extrusions as so:

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## flatty_420

Continuing on with the frame, here's the next group of parts



Corner brackets are installed in a piece of short extrusion



And then the extrusion is flipped 90 degrees for the rest of the parts to be installed.

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## flatty_420

Onto the next piece of frame...



Assembled as so:




And there we have it. My build instructions jump to some motor mounts next, so what I end up doing with these frame components will have to stay a mystery for now.

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## Donziboy2

Im just ahead of ya :Smile:   Got mine 2 weeks ago, had a smashed finger so I waited for it to heal up enough to not hurt every time I moved it.  Been working on mine since Friday morning, doing a little bit then taking a break.  Had a 4 day weekend.

Got the bed leveled dismorning.  Had a few small issues that Colin was quick to reply on so I should be printing in a few days.

Once I get a small desk for it its going into my closet and I will be enclosing/filtering it later so I can do ABS.

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## flatty_420

> Im just ahead of ya  Got mine 2 weeks ago, had a smashed finger so I waited for it to heal up enough to not hurt every time I moved it.  Been working on mine since Friday morning, doing a little bit then taking a break.  Had a 4 day weekend.
> 
> Got the bed leveled dismorning.  Had a few small issues that Colin was quick to reply on so I should be printing in a few days.
> 
> Once I get a small desk for it its going into my closet and I will be enclosing/filtering it later so I can do ABS.




Your build looks good. The table looks like the inside of my head.   :Smile:

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## flatty_420

OK, moving onto the motor mounts and other stuff... Here are the parts required for the Metal X Motor assembly:




And this is what it looks like when assembled:

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## flatty_420

Next comes the X Idler assembly and here are the parts required:




And the finished products:





Not much to comment on with these parts... everything is well laid out and goes together easily.

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## flatty_420

Up next is the metal X carriage and the parts required are shown here:




And the assembled unit looks like this:





I'm really enjoying this build so far... I love kits like this. It's fun seeing a bunch of parts laying on a table start forming into something useful!

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## Adamseye

I am curious as to how you guys hook the printer up the to atx power supply. Are you cutting off molex adapters? Or wiring molex's to your printer? I am gonna order myself another printer maybe today, just might be this one too. The only part I am not sure on is the power supply, as in trusting a ebay or attempting to make a atx that I trust work with the printer.

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## Donziboy2

Im using adapters.

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## flatty_420

> Return the fire blanket if you can.  My attempt to use it was a disaster.  I highly recommend the felt I used in my thread though.  Single layer of the 1/4" stuff could just be cut and used.


I can't take it back. What problems did you have with the fire blanket?

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## flatty_420

> I am curious as to how you guys hook the printer up the to atx power supply. Are you cutting off molex adapters? Or wiring molex's to your printer? I am gonna order myself another printer maybe today, just might be this one too. The only part I am not sure on is the power supply, as in trusting a ebay or attempting to make a atx that I trust work with the printer.


I haven't gotten that far yet, but I'll likely be cutting/soldering/heatshrinking the connections. You are having the same thoughts I did with regards to the power supply. I've seen some of the shit that gets passed off as good items on ebay. At least with the Thermaltake ATX that I am using, I know exactly what I have.

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## flatty_420

Moving on to the extruder assembly next; here are all the parts required




Some of the holes in the printed parts had debris in them which required a little cleaning out but the stringers came out easily





And the finished product!








Chow for now.

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## Dustin B

> I can't take it back. What problems did you have with the fire blanket?


It falls apart after you cut it up.  My wife quilts and couldn't get it to sew worth shit and it was giving her fiberglass slivers when she was trying to work with it.  If you took a lot of time to sew it by hand or had the right kind of machine for that type of fabric you might have better luck.  If you do try by hand I'd recommend sewing as much as you can before you cut anything as it won't stay together after you cut it.

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## flatty_420

> It falls apart after you cut it up.  My wife quilts and couldn't get it to sew worth shit and it was giving her fiberglass slivers when she was trying to work with it.  If you took a lot of time to sew it by hand or had the right kind of machine for that type of fabric you might have better luck.  If you do try by hand I'd recommend sewing as much as you can before you cut anything as it won't stay together after you cut it.


OK, thanks for the tip.

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## flatty_420

Howdy, next I'm putting together the Y bed with the following parts




Which looks like this when finished

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## Dustin B

When you get to putting the heat plate on the y-bed use 4 extra lock nuts (in my kit he supplied more than enough to do this).  Install a screw and lock nut to the heat plate first and tighten down so the screw can't turn.  Then adjustments will be one handed with just one wrench from the bottom, and later if you print some thumb wheels the change will be really simple.

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## flatty_420

Getting the electronics pieced together and I also did the spool holder








I've come to the end of what I can do as there was a bag of fasteners and a couple metal brackets that were not in the package. A quick email exchange with Colin (everybody is right, he does consistently answer within a few minutes) and the parts were mailed with a tracking number amazingly fast. However, now I have to impatiently wait for USPS to deliver to me up here in the Great White North.

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## flatty_420

> When you get to putting the heat plate on the y-bed use 4 extra lock nuts (in my kit he supplied more than enough to do this).  Install a screw and lock nut to the heat plate first and tighten down so the screw can't turn.  Then adjustments will be one handed with just one wrench from the bottom, and later if you print some thumb wheels the change will be really simple.


OH, I like that one. Thanks for the tip again.

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## Adamseye

I hear you on the patience, I have sent over 5 emails and called over 3 times to get the replacement parts for my wanhao. Blah Blah about got me mad. Well it did get me mad, then I did this. 20160303_210829.jpg

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## Dustin B

I got lucky in that the only thing I was missing was the hotend mounting plate and I was able to make my own. Still don't have the part from Colin yet. I'm also in the great white north. Should get it on the 8th. Not sure if I'll change it out or not.

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## Donziboy2

Flatty did you get your pegasus assembled?
I did a few test prints over the weekend, first 3 came out pretty good, last one ran overnight and looks like the bed moved up/down twice during heating.  I changed the code to PID control the Fet board im using.

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## flatty_420

> Flatty did you get your pegasus assembled?
> I did a few test prints over the weekend, first 3 came out pretty good, last one ran overnight and looks like the bed moved up/down twice during heating.  I changed the code to PID control the Fet board im using.


No, I'm at a standstill waiting for a couple parts... they should be here in the next day or two I hope. I have been reading about people switching from bang bang to PID control and I may look into that as well but I'm just going to get the printer going first and see how things go from there.

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## flatty_420

OK, I'm back in business and continuing the build. Next up are the Z motor brackets. The parts required are pictured below:




After putting things together it looks like this

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## flatty_420

Next is the Y motor bracket

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## flatty_420

It's finally time to start assembling the frame

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## flatty_420

We can now put some of these sub sections together to form the X axis










That's probably it for today. Chow for now.

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## 66Mhz

> That's probably it for today. Chow for now.


glad you're back!

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## flatty_420

> glad you're back!


  :Embarrassment: 

When assembling the X axis above, the 2 aluminum extrusions need to be parallel so the wheels run smoothly with no binding but they are only fastened at one end (so far). I found it helpful to use my vernier caliper to make sure they are truly parallel before tightening the fasteners on the one end. A measuring tape would work just as well I suppose.

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## ThinkASecondTime

Aweome thread.  I just my Pegasus 10 yesterday and started putting it together last night.  I am going in the exact order as the directions and I am up to starting the X-Axis assembly.  Thanks for the tip above.


Some things I noticed.  All off my aluminum extrusions are silver where it looks like your short ones were painted black.  No big deal obviously, but of note.

How many Hex keys did you get?  I got 3:  1 for the tiny set screws, one for the M3 bolts, and one for the M5 bolts.  I did not see a key for the larger set screws that are used in the hidden corner brackets.  No problem as I have that tool at home, but interesting that it was left out.

Keep up the great work!

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## flatty_420

> Aweome thread.  I just my Pegasus 10 yesterday and started putting it together last night.  I am going in the exact order as the directions and I am up to starting the X-Axis assembly.  Thanks for the tip above.
> 
> 
> Some things I noticed.  All off my aluminum extrusions are silver where it looks like your short ones were painted black.  No big deal obviously, but of note.
> 
> How many Hex keys did you get?  I got 3:  1 for the tiny set screws, one for the M3 bolts, and one for the M5 bolts.  I did not see a key for the larger set screws that are used in the hidden corner brackets.  No problem as I have that tool at home, but interesting that it was left out.
> 
> Keep up the great work!


THanks!

I was initially missing a couple parts from my kit and that's why I seem to be jumping around and not following the order of the build instructions.  

My short extrusions are all black and the long ones are silver for some reason. I also got 3 hex keys and I also had to get a fourth one from my toolbox.

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## flatty_420

Speaking of build instructions. I found the pdf on Makerfarm Pegasus product page is slightly different from the one that can be downloaded from the Build Instructions section with the latter being the more accurate guide.

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## flatty_420

Alright, it's been a busy day at work so I haven't had much time for the build but I got a couple things done. Back to the frame and mounting the Y motor mount and extrusions for the heatbed to run on.... Very specific measurements are given in the instructions as far as where the motor mount and extrusions go. You start with the motor mount and then bolt on the motor. Next comes the right hand extrusion:




Next the heatbed mount is put in place and the left hand extrusion is moved tight so the wheels run smooth 





And that's it for today.    :Frown:

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## flatty_420

Got some more work done... next step is to align the vertical Z motor extrusions front/back.




The instructions say to move the Z motor brackets down as far as possible but when I did that, there wasn't enough room to slip the motors in from below so I moved them up just a bit; this also enabled the fasteners to be properly placed rather than being jammed together.




Using the X axis to eye up how things were lining up, I decided to move the right hand Z motor bracket over 1 slot so that the Z rod will line up better.

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## flatty_420

As somebody else mentioned, when installing the Z motors in their brackets, the instructions say to use M3x10mm bolts which are much too long. The proper bolt to use is M3x6mm or M3x8mm with washer.

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## flatty_420

Wow, it's really starting to look like something with the X axis on.




I got all the wheels running smoothly and then aligned the Z nut trap holes with the motor shafts.








I had the motors back out for some reason when I took this pic but I don't remember why.

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## flatty_420

Turning the whole printer over, I aligned the Y motor gear




And the Y belt idler bearings

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## flatty_420

Next I cut and installed the Y belt

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## flatty_420

At some point while I was on pause, I assembled the e3d hot end... not sure why I didn't post it then but here it is.  Parts:




Pretty straightforward, although I thought I had to apply just a little too much force to secure the heater cartridge in the heater block but it's in and ready to go

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## flatty_420

Next up was the X axis belt. I had some trouble getting the belt to run centred on the idler bearings and ended up putting a second nut as a spacer on the M3x16 bolts on the X carriage to centre the belt (as seen below):




And the finished product looks like this





Notice the belt running nice and centred on the idler bearings....

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## flatty_420

@Dustin B , you were right. Trying to get a nice cut job on that fire blanket is not really feasible with scissors. 




I was not happy with what I ended up with here so I am going to get a roller cutter like this to try:





I will report back on how that works.

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## flatty_420

In the meantime, I thought I would install the endstops as so... X axis:




Y axis





Z axis

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## flatty_420

Electronics were next on the list and this is what they look like installed:





I was going to install the Z rods but once I started I realized how tight the holes were in the supplied Z nut trap... it was very difficult to install them. In fact, I didn't' install them. I'm taking them home to drill out the hole that the Z rods go through. 





That's it for today. Chow for now.

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## Dustin B

That's what my wife tried.  She ended up picking fiber glass out of the mat as it gets stuck in the cut the wheel makes in the mat.  Cuts not to bad, but then it frays just like with the scissors if you breathe on it after it's cut.

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## flatty_420

Alrighty then, I reamed out the Z nut trap holes with a 3/16" drill bit which made the Z rods fit through nicely... no binding but no slop either. Also tried the rotary cutter on the fire blanket and that worked well enough for me although Dustin is right, those things are difficult to work with.




I wasn't sure how many layers to use... ended up using 6 layers. Next up was mounting the heat bed





I got the Z rods mounted as well

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## flatty_420

Next I placed the glass on the heat bed to see how much room the bolt heads needed and marked the glass and then broke the corners off.








 I then gave the edges a quick sand with sandpaper to smooth out any blood-letters and sprayed it with the hairspray.

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## flatty_420

All mounted up




And here is a pic of the 6 layers of fire blanket





I also mounted up the extruder/hot end. I should have had this done earlier. I had to remove a wheel from the X carriage to get it on.

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## flatty_420

I got the frame supports mounted as well





Next I started working on the daunting task of wire management

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## flatty_420

Does anybody know what these parts are for? I have no idea... I may have missed something in the build manual (quite possible as I did jump around a lot). The bigger piece clearly fits into the extrusion somewhere but not sure what for...

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## cperiod

> The bigger piece clearly fits into the extrusion somewhere but not sure what for...


I bet that's a new spool holder design.

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## ThinkASecondTime

I finished up just after midnight or so on Saturday.  I printed the 1 inch cube and it came out pretty nice.  I have to mess with slic3r in the future.  It looks like the config settings that Maker Farm sends you are only compatible with Slic3r 0.9.9 (they include a download link for it).  I guess if I want to use an updated version, the users will have to figure that out.




Make sure you orient your nuts (red) and bolt heads (blue) like the picture below.  I had them backwards and caused some nice binding when I was trying to move my Z axis down.  You can also see that I moved the electronics to the back support leg as this gives me much more room for cable management/changes.



I don't know about other people, but my Z nut trap by my X-idler has zero clearance with the wood piece/bolt below.  When I tighten down the z nut trap, it bends the screw slightly.  Not sure if I am messing something up.  Maybe I have to sand down the bottom of the z nut trap. Also, I lubricated my Z screws with that can of silicone lubricant.  Seems to do a good job.  



Finally, the extruder mounts to the X carriage in two places.  The problem is you cant get the screw through the back without removing that wheel.  Sort of a pain, but it seems to work out fine.  Also, in the blue box you can see my washers are caught on the lip of the extruded piece.  I might have to sand that down a bit too, but I was able to load PLA with using a bit of force.

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## Donziboy2

Flatty, I hope you did not drill out the Z-rod traps to much, to much play will cause backlash issues.
Also be careful of over screwing/tightening the rods into the tubing, I actually had issues with banding because I ran one in to far and it was not cut perfectly flat causing it to move slightly to one side, causing z-banding.  Once I backed it off a quarter turn it was perfect.

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## flatty_420

> You can also see that I moved the electronics to the back support leg as this gives me much more room for cable management/changes.



Oh, I like this idea.

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## flatty_420

> Flatty, I hope you did not drill out the Z-rod traps to much, to much play will cause backlash issues.
> Also be careful of over screwing/tightening the rods into the tubing, I actually had issues with banding because I ran one in to far and it was not cut perfectly flat causing it to move slightly to one side, causing z-banding.  Once I backed it off a quarter turn it was perfect.



I did not drill out the traps much... just reamed the holes a little bigger really. I'm not seeing how that will cause any issues though as I didn't touch the nut traps themselves, only the hole above it that the rod goes through. The nut is still held securely.

Thanks for the heads up on the Z rods in the tubing. The rods are tight against the motor shaft... I will back them off just a little bit to prevent any banding.

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## ThinkASecondTime

> Oh, I like this idea.


Thankfully I had some extra T-Slot nuts left over because I did not want to have to remove the other ones.

Also, I had to remount the relay switch to the very bottom of the wood because there was no way for me to insert a USB type B connector into the Arduino.

I am still a bit worried about how the relay is wired to the bed.  The wire itself is not very flexible and I am afraid that over time it could wiggle loose and become a fire hazard.  I think there are some possible solutions floating around the internet on how to fix this. If anyone knows of a good solution, please share! I do have some very flexible 12 gauge wire that i could try to replace it with.  I might also consider some type of strain relief compression fitting to implement where it takes the movement stress off of the relay itself.

I am not much of a mechanical or electronics type of person, and I have found myself swearing a few times putting this 3D printer together, but I have learned so much.  MF's website says: "The average builder can complete the Maker Farm 10" Pegasus 3+ hours from start to printing."  I think that's a stretch to say the least, but I can easily say it took me over 24 hours of tinkering with this.  I know...very slow, but I want to know why I am doing what I am doing.

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## Donziboy2

> I did not drill out the traps much... just  reamed the holes a little bigger really. I'm not seeing how that will  cause any issues though as I didn't touch the nut traps themselves, only  the hole above it that the rod goes through. The nut is still held  securely.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the Z rods in the tubing. The rods are tight  against the motor shaft... I will back them off just a little bit to  prevent any banding.


What happens is that there is some  play in the threading of the nut so you can get a small amount of  movement, depending on the nut and rod that could be enough movement to  cause gaps during printing.  If you thread the rods into the nut traps  it adds threading to the traps and increases friction, reducing the  chance of unwanted movement.  I have seen several examples of people  making new nut traps that have 2 nuts and a spring in the middle to  prevent the backlash.

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## flatty_420

> What happens is that there is some  play in the threading of the nut so you can get a small amount of  movement, depending on the nut and rod that could be enough movement to  cause gaps during printing.  If you thread the rods into the nut traps  it adds threading to the traps and increases friction, reducing the  chance of unwanted movement.  I have seen several examples of people  making new nut traps that have 2 nuts and a spring in the middle to  prevent the backlash.


Ok, thanks. That's good info. I will keep an eye out for that and print new Z nut traps if I see any sign of banding.

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## flatty_420

> Thankfully I had some extra T-Slot nuts left over because I did not want to have to remove the other ones.
> 
> Also, I had to remount the relay switch to the very bottom of the wood because there was no way for me to insert a USB type B connector into the Arduino.



I had to move mine as well.

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## flatty_420

OK, so I put cable management on the back  burner until after I have printed something. Look at this lovely rats nest





I cut the ends off of the ATX PS wires I was planning on using. I used the PCIe (vid card) connector to power the heat bed relay and the CPU connector to power the rest of the machine. I'm not using any of the wires in the motherboard connector (other than the jumper from the green wire to ground) and I clipped the end off a SATA connector to power the hot end fan.

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## flatty_420

I followed the end stop setup video supplied by Makerfarm and manually levelled the heat bed. I loaded the Test Gcode and that worked as it should. Next I tried to print a test cube and ran into a problem. The extruder motor would only click back and forth one notch but would not extrude anything.

First I tried to manually push some filament down through the hot end and that came out as expected so I know it is not a clogged hot end nozzle. Next I took the stepper motor right out of the extruder assembly to rule out any physical binding but still had the same problem. Next I figured I would adjust the pot on the stepper driver. The voltage measured .647v which seems pretty high from what I've read (all the stepper drivers measured right around this voltage). I adjusted it down to .391v as per the troubleshooting pdf but still have the same problem. 

I had an AHA! moment when I realized that there was a little piece of paper that came with the kit that mentioned changing a value in the firmware with regards to the eSTEPS. I changed this value but the problem still remains.

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## flatty_420

Here is a vid of what is happening when I tell the printer to extrude. I don't know what to try next. Anybody have any suggestions?

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## ThinkASecondTime

Hmm interesting.


Take a look here:  https://printrbot.dozuki.com/Answers...back+and+forth


Just make sure you disconnect power before moving any connections.

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## flatty_420

OK, I just switched wires for the extruder motor and the Y axis motor and the problem moved to the Y axis while the extruder motor extruded properly. In other words it must be something wrong in the electronics board or the firmware. I am going to try and reinstall the firmware and see where that puts me.


EDIT:  Reinstalling the firmware did nothing.

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## printbus

> ... I don't know what to try next. Anybody have any suggestions?


Temporarily swap the motor connections at the electronics. For example, swap the connections for the extruder motor and the X-motor.  Does the problem stay with the extruder motor (suggesting the motor is the problem) or move to the other motor?

The prior link suggests an open motor winding can lead to the stepping back and forth.  If you have a multimeter and wires poked into the motor connector, look for continuity between pins.  Each motor winding has two pins connected to it; you should see a fairly low resistance continuity between those pins.

EDIT: Took too long to get this posted...

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## printbus

> ...the problem moved to the Y axis while the extruder motor extruded properly.


what electronics does this have? Can you swap around the motor drivers or are they fixed?  EDIT: review of earlier pictures suggests you should be able to swap around the motor driver boards to see if the problem is the driver board.  

You're not trying to spin the motor too fast, are you? Are you commanding the move from the LCD, or from host software?

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## Donziboy2

> Here is a vid of what is happening when I tell the printer to extrude. I don't know what to try next. Anybody have any suggestions?


Check your current limit on your stepper driver.  If its to low it wont be able to move.  Also when you start making your own slicer configs be careful not to set the stepper speed to high for extrusion or it will do a similar thing.

Here is my setup, still need to finish wire management and do inlet/outlet+filter.

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## flatty_420

> what electronics does this have? Can you swap around the motor drivers or are they fixed?  EDIT: review of earlier pictures suggests you should be able to swap around the motor driver boards to see if the problem is the driver board.  
> 
> You're not trying to spin the motor too fast, are you? Are you commanding the move from the LCD, or from host software?


I will try switching the stepper drivers and see what that does. I have not adjusted anything other than the eSTEPS... I'm using stock Marlin 1.0.2 as per the build instructions. For testing, I am commanding it using Pronterface although the problem was there when I was trying to print a test cube from an SD card as well (that was before I installed Pronterface). I do not know how to control the extruder from the LCD.

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## flatty_420

> Check your current limit on your stepper driver.  If its to low it wont be able to move.  Also when you start making your own slicer configs be careful not to set the stepper speed to high for extrusion or it will do a similar thing.
> 
> Here is my setup, still need to finish wire management and do inlet/outlet+filter.



I did check the stepper drivers and the one for the extruder was set to .647v (all the stepper drivers were at this high level) and I reduced it to .391v as per the troubleshooting pdf from Makerfarm but that made no difference. 

Your enclosure is pretty damn cool... is that plexiglass?

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## Donziboy2

> I did check the stepper drivers and the one for the extruder was set to .647v (all the stepper drivers were at this high level) and I reduced it to .391v as per the troubleshooting pdf from Makerfarm but that made no difference. 
> 
> Your enclosure is pretty damn cool... is that plexiglass?


Yep Plexi.

Are you using Makerfarm Marlin or did you download it from somewhere else?

edit..
I don't recall doing anything with eSteps on my printer lol.

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## flatty_420

> Yep Plexi.
> 
> Are you using Makerfarm Marlin or did you download it from somewhere else?
> 
> edit..
> I don't recall doing anything with eSteps on my printer lol.


I'm using Makerfarm Marlin. I tried the one that is linked in the firmware pdf and also the one that is in the Pegasus Software folder from the main build instructions (I think they are the same).


I tried switching the stepper motor driver between the extruder and the Y axis and now the extruder works fine and the Y axis won't move. That means I have a bad motor driver as far as I can tell...???

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## ThinkASecondTime

To control the extruder from the LCD:

Prepare -> Move Axis -> Extruder -> 1mm -> Turn knob slowly counter clockwise to feed.

I also read in the Makerfarm troubleshooting PDF that Marlin disables the extruder stepper if the hotend is less than 175C.  I have not actually tested that.

I had the same piece of paper saying to change my esteps in the firmware to 102.3, but I actually did the estep test shown here:



My estep calculation came out to actually 105.6.  I think I will run the test again.




> That means I have a bad motor driver as far as I can tell...???


It  may not be providing enough amps to the motor.  You will have to see  how to adjust the current.  I guess it has to do with that  potentiometer.

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## beerdart

Is the driver installed with the correct orientation?

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## beerdart

And yes the firmware will prevent cold extrusion.

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## Donziboy2

> And yes the firmware will prevent cold extrusion.


I had no problems running the extruder with pronterface while the hotend was cold.

----------


## flatty_420

> To control the extruder from the LCD:
> 
> Prepare -> Move Axis -> Extruder -> 1mm -> Turn knob slowly counter clockwise to feed.


Thank you




> Is the driver installed with the correct orientation?


Yes




> I had no problems running the extruder with pronterface while the hotend was cold.


Same here. Pronterface will run the extruder motor with a cold hotend

----------


## moyesusa

My bet is blown driver.  Had this happen to me right around Christmas on my 10".

Bought 5 spares for good measure.  Plugged a new one in and right back printing.

-moyesusa

----------


## beerdart

Good deal its been a while since ive used pronterface. 


> I had no problems running the extruder with pronterface while the hotend was cold.

----------


## printbus

> ...Pronterface will run the extruder motor with a cold hotend


But just to clarify, the printer prevents cold extrusion, not Pronterface or other host software.  Either the printer firmware has things set to allow cold extrusion, or the printer is receiving an M302 gcode command to enable it.  IMO, allowing cold extrusion by default isn't a good idea.

----------


## moyesusa

> But just to clarify, the printer prevents cold extrusion, not Pronterface or other host software.  Either the printer firmware has things set to allow cold extrusion, or the printer is receiving an M302 gcode command to enable it.  IMO, allowing cold extrusion by default isn't a good idea.


Agree with all that.  Ask me why...  ;-)

----------


## Donziboy2

> But just to clarify, the printer prevents cold extrusion, not Pronterface or other host software.  Either the printer firmware has things set to allow cold extrusion, or the printer is receiving an M302 gcode command to enable it.  IMO, allowing cold extrusion by default isn't a good idea.


We are talking about the manual controls.  If your trying to extrude with a cold hotend with everything assembled then you deserve to have to clean up a mess.

----------


## printbus

> We are talking about the manual controls...


Doesn't matter.  The printer still shouldn't typically be allowing it.  Who knows - maybe pronterface IS sending an M302 when you manipulate the manual controls.

----------


## Donziboy2

> Doesn't matter.  The printer still shouldn't typically be allowing it.  Who knows - maybe pronterface IS sending an M302 when you manipulate the manual controls.


It shows the output I can look when I get home.

----------


## flatty_420

I'm on hold yet again waiting for a new stepper driver in the mail. This is becoming very frustrating... I hate waiting for crap in the mail. Makerfarm may be very fast to respond to contact but that is a bag full of fasteners and  3 motor mounts that were not originally in the package and now a defective stepper driver right out of the box. I'm a little disappointed.

----------


## flatty_420

A new stepper driver fixed the problem. 

PLA





ABS

----------


## beerdart

:Cool: ........................

----------


## lakester

I'm pretty impressed by the bridging at the top of the cube..., i.e., the cube appears to have had no infill...

----------


## flatty_420

> I'm pretty impressed by the bridging at the top of the cube..., i.e., the cube appears to have had no infill...



The cubes are hollow. The first layer drooped down into the inside of the cube a bit but subsequent layers were fine.

----------


## flatty_420

The first thing I made other than the test cubes was a dryer knob for my poor wife who has been using a pair of pliers to turn on the dryer for many months now. It's one thing to be told what a 3d printer can do but a whole 'nother thing to actually hold a useful item that was just printed for you.... she was so happy and couldn't believe I made it on my printer.    :Big Grin:

----------


## flatty_420

Holy crap, did I forget to put some parts on? I have all this left over after the build...

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## flatty_420

I'm having an awful hard time getting ABS to not lift partway through the print on all but the smallest parts. Hairspray, extra hairspray, glue stick, none of them seem to have any effect on the problem. I really don't want to mess with ABS slurry.

I thought it may have been cold air currents coming in the room every time I went in to peek at the progress so I cranked the heat up in the tiny little office the printer is in and closed the door and stayed out until the print was done (to simulate an enclosure), but the same lifting took place.

I have tried a 5mm brim, tried adjusting bed heat temp up & down (90-115) tried lowering nozzle temp a bit (from 250 down to 230) but to no avail. I'm starting to wonder if it is the tiny little fan on the e3d v6 heatsink that is spraying errant air currents around on the print. Is it ok to reverse the fan so that the air is blowing away from the heatsink instead of onto it?

----------


## Donziboy2

> I'm having an awful hard time getting ABS to not lift partway through the print on all but the smallest parts. Hairspray, extra hairspray, glue stick, none of them seem to have any effect on the problem. I really don't want to mess with ABS slurry.
> 
> I thought it may have been cold air currents coming in the room every time I went in to peek at the progress so I cranked the heat up in the tiny little office the printer is in and closed the door and stayed out until the print was done (to simulate an enclosure), but the same lifting took place.
> 
> I have tried a 5mm brim, tried adjusting bed heat temp up & down (90-115) tried lowering nozzle temp a bit (from 250 down to 230) but to no avail. I'm starting to wonder if it is the tiny little fan on the e3d v6 heatsink that is spraying errant air currents around on the print. Is it ok to reverse the fan so that the air is blowing away from the heatsink instead of onto it?


ABS seems to be the hardest material to get right sometimes, I have had some prints come out flawless and then larger prints just refuse to stay stuck.  I am still working on getting ABS to behave.  A few things have helped.

Starting with a fresh build plate with a fresh layer of Gluestick or tape.  both tape and gluestick loose there holding power after a few prints.
Getting the bed Z height set, if its to high the first layer will not stick.
A brim sometimes helps.
Slow down the print speed, I have been playing with print speed and that seems to help allot.
Reduce infill when possible, more plastic means more warping from cooling.

My last print was a large shroud for a heatsink(100*69mm)/fan(92mm) combo, the print was pretty large and i had a brim, it still managed to pull up all 4 corners but the center stayed stuck, even with all the warping it was a SOB to pull off the plate.

----------


## flatty_420

> ABS seems to be the hardest material to get right sometimes, I have had some prints come out flawless and then larger prints just refuse to stay stuck.  I am still working on getting ABS to behave.  A few things have helped.
> 
> Starting with a fresh build plate with a fresh layer of Gluestick or tape.  both tape and gluestick loose there holding power after a few prints.
> Getting the bed Z height set, if its to high the first layer will not stick.
> A brim sometimes helps.
> Slow down the print speed, I have been playing with print speed and that seems to help allot.
> Reduce infill when possible, more plastic means more warping from cooling.
> 
> My last print was a large shroud for a heatsink(100*69mm)/fan(92mm) combo, the print was pretty large and i had a brim, it still managed to pull up all 4 corners but the center stayed stuck, even with all the warping it was a SOB to pull off the plate.


The bed height is set so I can shove (won't easily slide in... needs a push) a piece of paper in between bed and nozzle. I am using cheap dollar store glue stick, maybe I should go buy a good quality glue stick instead. I have tried a 5mm brim and it seemed to help a tiny bit but ultimately the part still lifted. 

I am going to try a raft next and I will slow down the print speed as per your suggestion and see what that does for me. I would like to reverse the direction of the e3d heatsink fan but worried about not providing enough cooling for it so hopefully somebody who knows can chime in with some info about that.

----------


## printbus

> ...I'm starting to wonder if it is the tiny little fan on the e3d v6 heatsink that is spraying errant air currents around on the print. Is it ok to reverse the fan so that the air is blowing away from the heatsink instead of onto it?


At least a handful of people have reversed the fan airflow and obtained improved ABS prints by doing so, at least with the hexagon hot end and the i3v printer. On the i3v, the bottom of the x-carriage is sort of a box, and air coming in from the normal fan orientation has nowhere to go but down onto the print area.  Reversing the fan still creates some airflow below the carriage, but it doesn't seem to be as problematic.  Maybe it isn't as localized.  

Airflow across the heatsink will be airflow across the heatsink. All other things equal, the direction of the airflow shouldn't matter.  When I migrated to the e3d v6 on my i3v, I never installed the fan in the direction e3d specifies. Granted I don't print for hours on end, but I've had no issues with the reverse mounted fan for a year.  To further eliminate spillage from the fan hitting the forward side of the heat bed, I initially just added a piece of painters tape to the bottom of the fan, facing forwards and cupped up a bit to act as a poor man's deflector.  I eventually came up with my own shroud design that adds a 10 degree angle on the the fan mount.

Some other notes...

I rarely hassle with ABS anymore, but I think people have also found it important to cover the heatbed glass with something during the warmup time, and to let the covered bed soak at temperature for a while before starting a print.  Otherwise the bottom of the heat bed where the thermistor is could be at temperature when the glass still has a ways to go. 

Adding large circle-like "mouse ears" onto corners of print objects is sometimes recommended on problem parts.  This gives significantly more adhesion area in the corners where it is needed.  There was a thread a while ago that discussed adding those onto an existing design - perhaps someone has the link to it.  

Component designs can also include schemes to minimize problems.  For example, the design I started with for a box to hold the GLCD on my i3v included a number of channels cut into the inside walls.  The originator included comments that said the channels were there to relieve strain from shrinkage as the box walls printed.  You can see these inside channels in the thingview of the box part - http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:817274

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## lakester

Just to reinforce printbus' comments:

Reversing the airflow on the Hex HE is a big win.
Allowing significant build plate heat soak time, ditto.

The only persistent caveat I've encountered has been w/ the i3v 12"..., try to keep the objects centered on the bed and away from the edges, ESPECIALLY the front edge of the build table.  Huge temp variability across the surface...

I still use ABS almost exclusively..., mostly because PLA goes brittle too quickly for my rate of usage.

----------


## flatty_420

Lots of good info there guys, thanks. I think I may have the ABS issue solved by simply reversing the e3d heatsink fan. When installed the way the instructions state, the fan blows through the heatsink and immediately hits the metal X carriage. With the extruder assembly right above it, there is nowhere for the air to go but down onto the print (as you can see in the pic). 

In the pic below, the part has always lifted by now but as you can see there is no lifting happening at all. The parts on either side are previous attempts with obvious results. It's a shame I had to cancel this print as I had a problem with the extruder as I will detail in my next post.

EDIT: I also let the heatbed 'soak' for a while before printing this part as well.

----------


## flatty_420

I checked on my print and found the printer was printing in mid-air with nothing coming out of the hotend. Upon further inspection I found the hobbed gear all clogged up with ABS fragments and it was just slipping on the filament instead of driving it down through the hotend. I initially was worried that reversing the heatsink fan had caused problems but I was able to manually extrude by pushing down on the filament.






Here is a pic of the filament. Do the marks show too much or not enough tightness on the hobbed gear/idler? Or maybe this is caused by something else...     :Confused:

----------


## printbus

Its interesting how the teeth marks disappear for some distance just prior to the notch cut into the filament.  I would have expected to see the teeth marks continuing all the way to the notch. Otherwise, how was the filament being moved?

The hobbed bolt carving into the filament is something pretty much everybody runs into at some point, and people have identified all sorts of reasons for it happening on their machine.   FWIW, Extrusion Problems is a post I've kept current with what people have found.  Some of the info is specific to the Greg's Wade extruder on an i3v, but a lot of the info is generic.  For me, it's typically been caused by filament with bulges in it that can't feed into the hot end or retraction settings being too  aggressive on fine-detail objects.

----------


## flatty_420

> Its interesting how the teeth marks disappear for some distance just prior to the notch cut into the filament.  I would have expected to see the teeth marks continuing all the way to the notch. Otherwise, how was the filament being moved?
> 
> The hobbed bolt carving into the filament is something pretty much everybody runs into at some point, and people have identified all sorts of reasons for it happening on their machine.   FWIW, Extrusion Problems is a post I've kept current with what people have found.  Some of the info is specific to the Greg's Wade extruder on an i3v, but a lot of the info is generic.  For me, it's typically been caused by filament with bulges in it that can't feed into the hot end or retraction settings being too  aggressive on fine-detail objects.


The teeth marks disappeared just before the notch because the teeth of the hobbed gear were completely packed with filament debris. This happened last time I had the ABS loaded into the printer as well. Strangely enough, that does not happen with the PLA I have and I've printed a lot more with PLA so far. Both spools of filament I'm using are eSun from Makerfarm. Thanks for the link, I'll check that out.

----------


## Donziboy2

I have had this happen and I think its caused by the spool binding just long enough for the gear to chew into the filament.  I plan to work on my spool holder at some point, I replaced the wood part the spool sits on with a 3d printed part shortly after getting the printer running, that helped but it still binds up from time to time and jumps.  I have noticed some of my spools are just a little bit wider then others this causes some spools to stick more often and require more force to start moving again.

Try to keep your spool angled so that it is center aligned with your extruder when the extruder is centered on the x axis.

----------


## flatty_420

> I have had this happen and I think its caused by the spool binding just long enough for the gear to chew into the filament.  I plan to work on my spool holder at some point, I replaced the wood part the spool sits on with a 3d printed part shortly after getting the printer running, that helped but it still binds up from time to time and jumps.  I have noticed some of my spools are just a little bit wider then others this causes some spools to stick more often and require more force to start moving again.
> 
> Try to keep your spool angled so that it is center aligned with your extruder when the extruder is centered on the x axis.


I also printed out that part almost immediately to replace the terrible wood one. I also have a thin film of white grease on it to smooth out the spool rotation.

----------


## printbus

Yeah, a lot of people have said the MakerFarm spool holder has been at least a major contributor.  I didn't mention having issues with it because I never used it, or didn't use it longer than I had to.  

FYI - someone suggested one of the unused wood parts shown in post #93 is an alternate spool mount, but it still relies on the poor design of having the spool bounce along over a fixed wood edge.  Not sure where you'd mount that on a Pegasus without losing a lot of print volume.  Perhaps on the rear side somehow.  FOLLOWUP COMMENT: That alternate spool mount is used on the 12-inch Pegasus that utilizes a box frame around the printer.  

Moderator RobH2 used to jump in and discourage people from mounting a spool high up on a printer, arguing that any momentum it picks up as the printer frame vibrates or wobbles can exasperate print quality issues.  Just sharing what others have said before.

----------


## Donziboy2

> Moderator RobH2 used to jump in and discourage people from mounting a spool high up on a printer, arguing that any momentum it picks up as the printer frame vibrates or wobbles can exasperate print quality issues.  Just sharing what others have said before.


Ya I kinda looked at that when I was having lots of z-wobble(was an over-tight thread in the tubing that was forcing the screw to one side).  The metal frame does not appear to move much if any during spool bounce, I could attach my frame to my printer enclosure to see if it makes a difference. I doubt it would.

Much of the jumping occurs when the printer is moving from left to right, usually during a non-extruded position change when its moving really fast.

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## flatty_420

> Yeah, a lot of people have said the MakerFarm spool holder has been at least a major contributor.  I didn't mention having issues with it because I never used it, or didn't use it longer than I had to.  
> 
> FYI - someone suggested one of the unused wood parts shown in post #93 is an alternate spool mount, but it still relies on the poor design of having the spool bounce along over a fixed wood edge.  Not sure where you'd mount that on a Pegasus without loosing a lot of print volume.  Perhaps on the rear side somehow.  
> 
> Moderator RobH2 used to jump in and discourage people from mounting a spool high up on a printer, arguing that any momentum it picks up as the printer frame vibrates or wobbles can exasperate print quality issues.  Just sharing what others have said before.


The problem with no extrusion/slipping hobbed gear on the filament has gotten worse real fast but only with ABS, PLA seems to work fine.

----------


## Donziboy2

> The problem with no extrusion/slipping hobbed gear on the filament has gotten worse real fast but only with ABS, PLA seems to work fine.


Sounds like a clog or to low of a temperature.  Make sure your temp sensor is not working its way out of the extruder.

edit...
Also check your extruder stepper current limiting.  Also check your extrusion speed and acceleration, stepper can loose position if you go crazy fast or have to low current settings.

----------


## beerdart

My experience with eSun has been well it sucks. Ive tried it a few times both ABS and PETG the last one was recent with there PETG and we were slipping grinding and just plane printing like crap the only reason I went with e brand for the PETG is they had black and my normal supplier did not have black. So I sent them PP a msg on FB asking for black and bam they ran a batch of black. It arrived and printed the same Gcode model without a problem three rolls later it just prints.. Same for there ABS. I highly recommend http://pushplastic.com/ 

I would also try and up your extruder heat as you changed the air flow. 

As for ABS sticking its always touch and go I have used slurry with great results but its a one time use deal. I switched to PEI sheet and its almost as good as slurry and darn near impossible to remove PETG prints I sometimes sprinkle baby powder to help release the prints.  After discovering PETG I rarely print with ABS as its near impossible to control warp and lifting. 

I also get in the habit of clearing the powder out of the hobbed bolt ever color change,,

----------


## usarmyaircav

I have had good luck with hatchbox ABS, I am going to try their PETG.  with the makerfarm ABS I have, I have to make sure I have it loose or I suspect it hits a bulge and stops feeding.  That was when I had the Hex, not sure if it is better with the E3d, haven't printed in that color in a while.  I am having a love/hate relationship with the Esun PETG, either I can't get a good first layer (thinking I need to slow it down more) or when I printed a large print I had an issue with my Hex that I had to pry it off my PEI, that I am sort of wondering if I damaged it.

----------


## flatty_420

I took a break from ABS because I was getting frustrated. Printing up a storm with PLA.  :Smile:   I will revisit my ABS issues next week with a clear head.

----------


## Dustin B

The cheap IR thermometers are handy to have around for this stuff.  Easy way to quickly check actual glass temp on the top and any other component you want to temp.  On mine the heatbed thermistor reports up to temp long before the ir thermometer says the top of the glass has reached temp.  And putting an insulator on top of the glass really does speed that up.

----------


## flatty_420

> I checked on my print and found the printer was printing in mid-air with nothing coming out of the hotend. Upon further inspection I found the hobbed gear all clogged up with ABS fragments and it was just slipping on the filament instead of driving it down through the hotend. I initially was worried that reversing the heatsink fan had caused problems but I was able to manually extrude by pushing down on the filament.




Figured out my problem.... the 4 bolts that hold the stepper motor onto the printed direct drive extruder were loose. Once tightened up, the ABS feeds through just fine.

----------


## flatty_420

OK, I have a bunch of these LED lights 





and I used Tinkercad to design a holder for them and then printed some out so I could mount some lights on the printer.






I wired them up and mounted them to the printhead with some two sided carpet tape that I had laying around

----------


## flatty_420



----------


## flatty_420

Unfortunately, the tape wasn't up to the task and did not stay stuck so I used Tinkercad again to glue 4 holders together into a quad holder, printed it, and mounted it using the leftover laser cut wood thingy.

----------


## flatty_420

On another note, I have greatly improved my ability to print ABS without it lifting off the heatbed using this item I found on Thingiverse:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:701002





I won't go so far as to say the problem is solved (I have some more testing to do) but on the few ABS prints I have done so far, not only is the corner lifting gone but after printing, the part is stuck to the bed hard just like PLA prints are and that is using just hairspray!! I'm pretty happy with the results so far.

----------


## ThinkASecondTime

ABS is warping for me too.  I am trying my luck with PETG.  Seems like a better alternative to ABS.  I think the only drawbacks is that PETG doesn't bridge well at all and I hear that you have to print a bit slower.

Flatty, so did you reverse your fan and now its pushing air out that new shroud?

Do you know where I can find the other printed parts for the pegasus?  I am looking for the Znut traps.  I found znut traps, but its under the wooden folder and I dont think those are correct.

----------


## flatty_420

> Flatty, so did you reverse your fan and now its pushing air out that new shroud?
> 
> Do you know where I can find the other printed parts for the pegasus?  I am looking for the Znut traps.  I found znut traps, but its under the wooden folder and I dont think those are correct.


Originally, with the fan blowing through the heatsink, the air was hitting the back of the metal X carriage which was causing the print to lift at the back. I flipped the fan around so it was sucking instead of blowing and that improved the problem but also moved it to the front corners lifting instead of the back. Once the above shroud was printed and installed, I found a big improvement and the prints seem to stay stuck to the heatbed better now that all sources of air from the fan are directed away from the print.

I have not been able to find much for printed part improvements for the Pegasus, I'm assuming since they are fairly new on the scene that more mods will show up in time after it has been around for a while. The few mods I have found interesting are usually directed at the version with all wood parts and does not translate well to the metal upgrades.

Of course, there is always designing and printing your own mods... I tried a few of the suggested cad programs and was not able to do much with them until I found Tinkercad.com. I find it much easier to design things with it although I'm sure it is quite limiting compared to the cad programs.

----------


## ThinkASecondTime

So the Z coupler tubing on one side has gone bad.  




 I have a couple of these couplers being shipped my way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/331160051416

I've seen mixed reviews on them, but I figured its worth a shot to test them.  Does anyone know what diameter tubing I would need if I want to go back to that?  3/16 inch?

----------


## BLKKROW

> So the Z coupler tubing on one side has gone bad.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  I have a couple of these couplers being shipped my way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/331160051416
> 
> I've seen mixed reviews on them, but I figured its worth a shot to test them.  Does anyone know what diameter tubing I would need if I want to go back to that?  3/16 inch?


I have the 12" Pegasus and found the Couplers that you purchased run into the X Carriage. I cannot get the Z axis low enough to get the nozzle in a good position for the bed.

----------


## hernejj

Here is a link to the couplers I bought.  I put them on right form the start as I could not stand the thought of using the tubing. I would not go back  :Smile:  They have worked fine for a year. Let us know if the cheaper e-bay sourced parts work well.

http://www.amazon.com/Atoplee-Steppe.../dp/B00M4VNAPA

----------


## flatty_420

Big difference in quality of prints between slicers, holy cow! Simplify3d on the top, Slic3r (0.9.9) on the bottom. Cura gives me prints similar to Slic3r. Same nozzle/bed temps used in both slicers.





Slic3r in front, Simplify3d in back.







The parts printed with Slic3r can't even be assembled and look like absolute shit. I'm not made of money, but I've already got a grand tied up in this printer... I'm starting to think what's another $188 for that much of an improvement in quality?

----------


## hernejj

You might want to play with SLic3r's settings a bit before you make your decision. I started with Slic3r and used it for almost 10 months exclusively. I know it can do far better than what your pictures are indicating.  I do use s3d now and it does do many things better than slic3r (in my opinion) but slic3r has its own merits. Surely slicing software is important and it can make a difference but, as I've painfully discovered recently, if something is not going right there is a good chance human error has at least some part in it  :Smile: . Even minute details/changes can have drastic effects on print quality. Before I switched to s3d I performed a similar experiment and also discovered that most of my prints looked better using s3d. But the difference was not quite so drastic as yours. Perhaps your slic3r settings are not as refined as s3d?

I'm not trying to "preach" or guide your decision. I Just wanted to suggest that if something looks off in your prints, think about what the cause could be: over extrusion? Under extrusion? Temps not quite right? Sometimes changing one thing (a speed, a temp, e-steps) has unexpected results. This is an exciting and deceptively complicated hobby. Good luck :-).

----------


## moyesusa

Ditto the below.  I use Slic3r probably 95% of the time.  A mix of Cura and Mattercontrol for the rest.  Haven't tried Simplify3d mainly 'cause I'm a cheap SOB...  ;-)

I've printed the exact same nautilus gear model a few weeks ago and it came out pretty much spot on looking like your Simplify3d version.

Also, I use a combination of versions of Slic3r depending on what I'm printing.  I've done quite a bit of tweaking of settings and think I've got it to the point where I can print probably 80-90% of the time reliably.  Since this is just hobby type printing, that's acceptable to me.  YMMV

-moyesusa




> You might want to play with SLic3r's settings a bit before you make your decision. I started with Slic3r and used it for almost 10 months exclusively. I know it can do far better than what your pictures are indicating.  I do use s3d now and it does do many things better than slic3r (in my opinion) but slic3r has its own merits. Surely slicing software is important and it can make a difference but, as I've painfully discovered recently, if something is not going right there is a good chance human error has at least some part in it . Even minute details/changes can have drastic effects on print quality. Before I switched to s3d I performed a similar experiment and also discovered that most of my prints looked better using s3d. But the difference was not quite so drastic as yours. Perhaps your slic3r settings are not as refined as s3d?
> 
> I'm not trying to "preach" or guide your decision. I Just wanted to suggest that if something looks off in your prints, think about what the cause could be: over extrusion? Under extrusion? Temps not quite right? Sometimes changing one thing (a speed, a temp, e-steps) has unexpected results. This is an exciting and deceptively complicated hobby. Good luck :-).

----------

