# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  Pegasus 12" Build Notes

## uncle_bob

Hi

I've been posting bits and pieces of this all over the place. It's going to be a lot of "Bob talks to Bob" as I post bits and pieces. If you have not already read:

http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ld-by-Printbus

Read it now. There is a lot of information in there that applies to building any of these printers. There is *far* more detail in that thread than I can possibly come up with. He also does a much better job on that printer than I have the patience to do on mine. Yikes !!!

First up, why this printer? I'll stick to the MakerFarm stuff and not try to look at every printer under the sun. 

1) This beast has a *big* print area. Of the MakerFarm models, it has the biggest build area. Bigger is *always* better  :Smile:  

2) The frame on this printer is quite sturdy. In some cases big gets you into problems. With the heavy frame, this is a very stable printer. 

3) The V-Slot construction is very neat. Bolting things onto the printer is easy. With the "cube" design, you have a lot of area to bolt things onto. 

4) The bits and pieces that make up the printer are first class. There is not choice of "metal vs something else" on this one. The base machine comes with all the metal mounts. 

5) Other than the metal plates, everything in the kit is "open source". If you decide to modify something, there are sources for everything. You are not "locked in" to much of anything on this design. Face it, you *will* decide to fiddle something ...

6) The "bang for the buck" on this printer is way beyond the other kits. If you upgrade the 10" or 8" kit to "full metal" so it is apples to apples .... this one is a much better deal. 

7) I've been down the road with the "wood" and "acrylic" frame printers. Go for one that is metal. They last longer and hold settings much better. 

There are a few choices on the printer. Some are fairly easy others are a bit more difficult. 

1) You get to pick hot ends (with some extruders). To me this is a slam dunk. Get the full blown e3d V6 and skip the Lite version. You do not loose anything by picking the full version. The Lite cramps your filament selections down the road. 

2) Filament !!! It is *totally* unclear from the web site, but there is a hidden reason to get the filament with the printer. The shipping is free. If you are shipping a long way, that can matter quite a bit. 

3) Extruders. This is where it gets a bit hard. The single direct drive extruder works quite well. For another few dollars you can get a Titan. No printed parts ...hmmm. There also a dual extruder option. It is fine as far as feeding filament. Like any two head dual it is heavy and the second head can hit stuff. The key thing about this printer is that it *can* be set up to give a full print area with a two head dual setup. In some cases, you loose an inch of print area. Not with this printer. 

One thing that makes this pretty easy is support. Colin is great. I've bugged the poor guy to death over the years. This is not my first MakerFarm so I *know* how that's going to go. Even with the "I can't find the XXX" ... "Bob, look in the box .." conversations he does a great job. (Yes, it's *always* in the box ..). 

So what did I buy in terms of the 12"?

I got the basic kit with a full boat of filament. I got the dual extruder. I have another single extruder printer and wanted to try the dual. Who knows if I'll get a single extruder parts set and go with a "swappable" extruder setup. Only time will tell. 

I got the MeanWell power supply listed in the instructions:

http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/M...E-350-12.shtml

It's $45 from distribution. 

After I bought the kit they came out with:

http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/M...S-350-12.shtml

It's $34 from the same manufacturer and distributor. It's the same power level and it's smaller. It also has a slightly better warranty. The "small" is in the height dimension. It's 30 mm vs 50 mm. That gives you back 20 mm inside the print area to move things around. Having more print area is *always* a good thing. Since it has the same X and Y dimensions, it drops right in on the printer. The mounting holes appear to be in the same location as the bigger printer. We'll see how that conversion goes in a few minutes ....

Bob

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## Sailor

Great, look forward to reading more!

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## uncle_bob

Hi

The smaller power supply fits fine on the "standard" mounts supplied with the kit. If you are buying parts to go with a kit, that's the one to get. 

The kit shows up in a great big box. The V-Slot is all in a big bundle. There are a couple of plastic boxes with parts in them and a few other bundles of parts in the box. It's not a fancy shipping approach. It does the job and everything got here in fine shape. 

First step in the instructions is to build up the bottom of the frame. The *real* first step is to find a place to build the printer. You want a *flat* surface. Do *not* do as I did and check the surface after the build is almost done. While you are at it, grab a level. Don't just check the surface for flatness. Check it for level as well. Later in the process this will come in handy. If you have a fancy machinist's level, use it. If yours came from Home Depot, it will do an better job than guessing. 

You essentially build a square out of V-Slot in the first step. After it's together, make sure it's planar (flat). Also check the diagonals of the square. String is an adequate way to do the job. They just need to be equal. No need to invest in that 30" caliper  :Smile:  Before you put the assembly aside, put a sticker on it to identify front from back. You go back and forth between assemblies. Without some sort of identification, it's *very* easy to get things rotated. 

The next step involves doing the same thing with the top of the cube as with the bottom. The same approach applies. One thing not in the instructions - if you have a dual extruder kit, there are *two* spool holders. The second spool holder goes on opposite the one shown in the instructions. 

Next up is to put the uprights on the lower frame. That involves positioning the uprights that will support the X axis carriage. The trick is to get them the same. It may be easier to find a ~ 140 mm spacer than to try to measure both distances. Getting them the same to within 1 mm is far more important than getting them to exactly 140. 

You would *think* the next step is to put on the top of the assembly. Nope. There is a bunch more to do before that happens. See why we wanted a label on the upper assembly ?  :Smile: .

Mounting a bunch of hardware to hold the motors and belts goes pretty well. There are a couple of bumps in the road: 

You set the distance to the left hand Y rail as part of this process. The 78 mm number in the instructions sets the bed a bit to the left of the assembly. With the smaller power supply (remember that) there is no real need to push it that far over. If you go up to about 100 mm, the bed will be centered. That gives you the max print area with dual extruders. 

There is a lot of fiddly stuff to get the Y rails flat and properly spaced. Don't bother with that at this point. Simply accept that they will be re-done later. You may just wait to space the left rail at that point. 

The second bump is the structure for the front bearing on the Y axis belt. This is not unique to this kit. The simple answer is to get a shorter bolt for the bearings. Mr Metric on the web or Home Depot are your choices. Don't get me wrong, the supplied bolt *does* work. It's just a bit of a pain to adjust. 

This is also the first point that you are playing with wires. Hopefully you read the other thread and are working with 1/4" nylon jacketing for the wires. I like to color code mine with 3M colored plastic tape. That cuts down on the fray bundle at the end of the wire. A small nylon tie over the tape keeps everything in place. 

Enough for now. Back to printing upgrades !!

Trust me, it's worth doing this printer right. Once you get it working, it does very good prints. Take your time. Get it done right. Mess up the details and you will be going a bit crazy for a long time ...

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

In the instructions, you are now putting the Z axis motors on their mounts, the Y axis motor on its mount and putting the Y bed together. 

The instructions go through a bunch of stuff about getting the Z motor mounts right at 55 mm. Don't sweat it. The mounts could be another 5 mm higher and not have a real impact on much of anything. It *is* worth getting them low. It's not worth going crazy to get them to 55 vs 56 mm. 

When you go to put the Y bed together, you suddenly come up against a gizmo called an eccentric. If you have never seen one of these before, stop to take a look at it. There is a hole in the middle that is offset compared to the main axis of the part. When you rotate the part, the hole moves around. Later on you will be using it to adjust the tension on the rollers. In order to do that without going nuts, you need to have some idea where the thin side and fat side of the exocentric is. All you will be able to see is the walls of the hex outer part. Grab a marker and put some marks on the part. You need one (say a dot) to show the skinny side. You need another (say a line) to indicate the fat side. That leaves 4 of the 6 sides with no marks. Grab all of the eccentrics in the hardware pack and mark them now. 

The hardware that goes through the rollers is a bit tricky to get set right. To tight and the roller starts to bind. To loose and it is going to wobble or the eccentric will slip. Spend some time getting it right. Twist the roller to be sure it runs free. Tighten some, check it again. Once you feel it start to drag, back it off to just the point that the drag stops. Get it within an eight of a turn. 

At this stage do not worry about getting the table on the printer tight. Just get it on so it does not rattle around. You do *not* want to play with both rails. Only adjust the right rail. Leave the left rail at the location you measured it to be at. 

Yes, the top of the frame is still sitting there. The X carriage needs to get done first. Until the top frame is on the printer, there is not a lot of use getting everything lined up perfectly. There is a whole process to getting that done. 

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Now you are up to doing the X carriage. The instructions go through this pretty well. The main thing here is to *carefully* check out the Z nut traps. They can't bind (thread onto) the rods. They also need to have enough material left to hold the nuts. Before you put them on the assembly, mate them up with the nuts and rods. My guess is that the rods will thread into the traps. The answer is to open up the holes a bit with a hobby knife. Don't overdo the process. You still need to have the entire assembly supported off of the material you leave. 

Second thing to do: When you put the set bolt through the Z end stop, put a very normal M3 nut *above* the wooden arm and below the head of the bolt. At some future point you may need it to tighten things up. 

The final step is to take a close look at the two pieces of V-slot that the X carriage is going to ride on. They need to be equally spaced and at right angles to both end assemblies. There is a bit of judgement involved in that process. When you mount the carriage on the rails, it's easiest if the eccentrics are set so the "fat" part is to the inside of the assembly. This spaces the rollers as far apart as possible. The same is true when you put the whole assembly on the uprights. It's not as easy to do this if you didn't mark the eccentrics right up front. 

The instructions run through putting the upper frame on pretty quickly. It's not quite as much of a three person process as you might think. Having a second pair of hands does help. When you get it on, stop and double check that the front is indeed in front. Also double check the spacing of the uprights in the middle of the left and right sides. It's not a magic distance as much as having the *same* distance at both top and bottom on both uprights. You also need to check all the diagonals. If something is not square, fix it now. 

At this point the main frame is square and all together. Double check all of the corners. Make sure they are flush and solid. You can feel gaps better than you can see them. Check all of the L connectors to be sure both set screws are tight. Check all of the right angle connectors (except the ones on the Y tracks) to make sure they are solid and tight. 

Stop, go have dinner, watch a TV program, do something else. Come back and double check the whole / flat / square / flush thing again. It is the heart of the whole assembly. Grab your level. Check the table. Check the top and bottom frame arms. They should all be level. Flip the assembly on it's front face (hang on to the Y carriage). Check the uprights on the back side. In this position, they should be level. 

Yes, that's a lot of checking. You do *not* want to come back and do all that later. Any change you make to the frame throws off all the other alignment. Re-starting the whole process is no fun at all. 

So much for now.

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Belts are next. You need to get the Y belt ends roughly correct (the motor and the front mount) to get the belt length right. I found it easier to do by measurement than by eye. There is not a lot of extra belt in the kit. There also isn't a lot of adjustment range after they are in. You want to get them as tight as you can when you install them. The pictures imply that you can have a bunch of extra belt hanging out past the ties. The pictures lie. Obviously you want to tighten the belts with the adjusters all in the "loose" position. That is pretty obvious with the X motor. It's not quite as obvious with the bolt assembly on the front of the Y belt. 

You now are up to the heat bed. There are a couple of choices here. 

You need to put some sort of insulation between the bed and the aluminum plate. I decided to use Nomex felt:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The stuff is gross overkill. It's rated for use over 200C. That's way beyond anything the heated bed will ever run at. A minimum order of the stuff is plenty for a bunch of printers. You can cut it with scissors. There is now weird debris when you cut it. 

The second decision is how to mount the bed. The "old" way was to use springs. That really isn't a good idea. Mount it solidly with spacers. The bed extenders are great for this. I have some custom parts that I like a little better. I'll post them eventually. The gotcha is that the heated PCB changes size / shape as it heats up. The ones I did don't confine the PCB at all. That gets the PCB closer to the glass plate at all times. 

One thing I *thought* would be a good idea: Supporting the heater PCB with the Nomex felt. That turned out to not work very well. You go from zero contact to a "middle high" situation very quickly. The best approach for me was to keep the felt below the PCB.

End stops .... oh joy .... 

MakerFarm has used cable ties for mounting micro switches forever and ever. It does work. It saves playing with some really strange sized nuts and bolts. People have been complaining about it forever and ever. I went with the cable ties. Others would go find some nuts and bolts. 

Pictures show the Z end stop hitting the roller on the microswitch. My thought is that this is not the best approach. I moved the arm out a bit and let it hit the "flat" on the switch. It seems to be more consistent that way. 

The X carriage end stop also has a wheel on it. The normal mount will have that wheel hitting the roller at right angles. The wheel does not turn, it just drags (or misses the roller completely). They break off easily. Once you do that file off the rough end on the arm to the switch. It works fine that way. 

Mounting the LCD is next. It is pretty clear in the instructions. 

Building the hot end and extruder depend a lot on what you bought. Other than cleaning up the printed parts, none of it was very crazy. 

Mounting the power supply and Ramps is an exercise in figuring out where the wires will fit. The LCD cable to the display is one constraint. The other limit is the wire to the Z axis stepper on the left side. Test fit both cables before you decide on how the supply and Ramps bolts down. With both cables there are some compromises you can make on cable dress that will move the assembly up or down. My decision was to extend the cable to the Z stepper and mount the whole thing high. You don't *have* to do that. I just liked getting things up a bit higher. 

Getting the Ramps hooked up is as much about how the wires are dressed as it is getting this or that wire to here or there. Plan on spending some quality time working all of that out. Accept that you may tear it all apart once or twice while getting it all done. I wired mine all up with the printed cable shields and the nylon jacket / braid stuff. I would do it the same way if I did it again. 

My heated bed was a "two wire" version and I got an outboard relay card. Before the kit arrived, I had decided to run a solid state relay rather than the mechanical one. I do not doubt that the supplied relay works. I have plans to abuse the heated bed a bit (run it hot) so I wanted some margin. I picked this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yup, a 100A relay. Actually it's even worse. It's likely a MOSFET based part. The power rating thus goes by I^2 so putting 20 or 30 A through it is very much loafing along. As expected it runs dead cold. If I run the heated bed up to 18V it still should do just fine. It also will do fine running PWM. There is no need to do this unless you have really nutty plans for the printer.

For the miscellaneous 12V stuff, I wired in a terminal strip. From past experience, there are always more things getting lashed on the printer. Tearing open a wire harness each time you put on a fan or something is no fun. Just screwing things down on the block is a *lot* easier. 

I did not go with the outboard switch. I will eventually put in a fuse. It's just not been done yet. One thing I did do while wiring the power supply ... run a ground wire to the frame of the printer. It's not a big deal in the middle of the summer. Come winter and sparks every time you touch the printer, it's well worth it. There is also a safety benefit. 

Before you plug the beast in for the first time, double check all the wiring. It's very easy to mess up. When you do fire it up:

Noting at all happens = end stop switch over one pin and shorting the 5V supply to ground
No display / blank display = big fat connector on the Ramps plugged in one pin over 
Temperature indicating off of "room" = thermistor not plugged in
No heat up when commanded = wire loose on screw terminals 
Axis dances rather than moves = stepper connector one pin over
Axis does not move = stepper not plugged in

When you do power up the Ramps, either with the 12V supply or USB to a computer should give you LED's on the board. If not, check the end stop switches. 

Load up the firmware in the Ramps from the MakerFarm download. Use the (old) versions of the software he has listed. Get the checkout done before you mess with any new versions or updates. The stuff he suggests is all stable and well tested. Run through the basic motion tests he suggests in the instructions. Stop before you get to printing. You still have some mechanical stuff to check out. You want to be done with the electrical first. It makes some of the checks a lot faster.

Alignment will be a whole post by it's self. 

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

So first up, why spend all this time on getting the printer aligned? The most basic reason is because it's actually the easy way to do it. Going crazy with indirect measures for weeks is more frustrating than just getting it right up front. It is hardly unique to this printer. Any kit printer should be squared up. The great thing with this one is that it is a cube. There are lots of flat surfaces at right angles to each other. No strange 32.73 degree angles. No "humidity changes and it all moves" stuff. No bump into it and you need to re-align the whole thing. 

The first objective of all this is to get the X,Y, and Z all in their proper orientation. The fancy term is orthogonal, the simple term is "right angles". The second objective is to get the X and Y axis guides (V-Slot) parallel to each other. The third objective is to take all play out of each axis. That is not in any sort of order in terms of importance. The all need to be done. 

You *can* get this all done with a whole bunch of measurements. You can get a lot of it done by trial and error. You can print a bunch of cubes and then go chasing gremlins. People have been setting up fancy machines for at least a few hundred years. A very standard (and quick) way to set up a machine is to use levels. It is not the only way to do it. It does indeed work best with a precision (machinist's) level. 

Before leveling out the machine, check the table. I do this a lot because the table I'm using isn't the best. Your table may not be as flakey as mine. If yours is solid, just move on. Double check the main frame to make sure it's still square and level. 

Start with the left hand Y track. It should be properly spaced off the left hand side of the machine. Get it level front to back. Next step is to get the other track (V-Slot) level as well. Pre-set the eccentrics on the Y bed to "wide" and get the track moved over so the bed is up in the air on the rollers. It will not be perfect at this point. You just want it close enough that the eccentrics can do their job. Make sure the distance between the two rails is identical at front and back. At this point the rails are "right" and will not be touched again. Of course nothing is ever that simple, but that's the objective. 

The eccentric  adjustment can be a bit frustrating. It takes three points to define a plane. You have 4 in this case. The approach I used it to start from "loose" and rotate one of them clockwise and the other counter clockwise. You adjust / check / adjust / check. You do not want to get one way to tight. That will keep the other one from clamping down. Roll the bed back and forth. Check to see if it binds. Take both down a bit. Check again, take the one towards the loose end down a bit and see how it goes. You may need to back off the other roller if it is tight and the other one is not. The adjustments go maybe 1/16 of a turn at a time early and less than that at the end. If it goes loose in the middle, the rails probably are not level to each other. 

When you are done with the adjustment on the bed it should do several things. It should not drag or bind at any point over the travel. It should be equally tight over the entire travel. There should be no vertical play at all (you can't move the bed up and down). There should be no play in the horizontal (you can't rotate the bed). There should not be any play at any point in the travel. 

Next step is to get the belt straight and tight. The only way I could do this is to sit back and look at the belt from about 3 feet away from the machine. At the end, the fine adjustment is done finding the point that the belt is the most loose. That seems weird, but when the motor pulley or front bracket are centered, the belt is the most loose. Once it's centered, tighten it up by moving the bolt in the front assembly. 

The Y bed should now be correct. It should slide back and forth It's time for a break. 

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Adjusting the X axis is not as crazy as the Y bed. The main trick is to level the X guides (V-Slot) before you try to snug up the vertical rollers. About the only practical way is to balance it on a box while you do it. If you have the Z rods in place, there is no way to run the rollers up and down. That's the only way to figure out if they are binding. You have two fixed rollers and two eccentric rollers on each side. The fixed rollers are set up by adjusting the location of the end assembly on the horizontal guides. It's a "both in contact" adjustment. Once they are correct, both are snugged up with their respective eccentrics. The net result should be all six rollers in contact and no binding as the assembly is raised and lowered. As the assembly tilts so one side is low, it will indeed bind. It can be a bit tough to make sure that it is staying level as you check it. A nice small level is a handy item at this point. 

Getting the Z carriage adjusted is fairly easy if you have a single extruder. If you have a dual extruder, there are two eccentrics on the top of the Z carriage. They can be adjusted back and forth to change the tip of the carriage to level out the horizontal delta between extruders. This worked better for me than the alternate approach in the instructions. 

At this point everything should be set up. You put a piece of glass on the heated bed and move into the checkout detailed in the instructions. One hint on the glass - If you get it from Lowes or ACE, it will have sharp edges on it. Run a piece of steel over them to knock off that edge. The back of a knife works fine. You will hear the microscopic edge break as you do it. 

The manual bed level in the instructions works quite well with a firmly anchored bed. Try it first with a cold system (bed heater and hot end turned off). See how it all works. You will do a better job after you have practiced it once or twice. I like using paper for the process. Others like feeler gauges. With paper you have a bit more "feel". The adjustment with the knob on the display is a bit coarse. You will go from "nothing" to "something" in a single click. That reduces the value of a fancy gauging setup. 

The Z end stop is adjusted to get to a reasonable starting point on the bed level process. I found it easier to do the coarse adjustment by moving the switch. I only did the fine adjust with the screw that goes through the wooden part. Ideally you want the tip of the hot end within 1 mm of the glass before the bed leveling process starts. The end stop microswitch is over driven by the offset. It seems like a good thing to minimize. I got mine down to 0.2 mm. That's probably overkill. Don't get to crazy until the system is warmed up. The hot end will move a little as it heats. You should check it for tightness after it heats up the first time. 

After you run through the manual bed level you can send the printer a G29 command. It will either tell you to home the printer (so home the printer ...) or give you a dump of the bed level information. On a perfect bed all the numbers would be identical. The main thing you want to look for is any obvious left / right or front / back trend in the numbers. If they do have a trend (all the left side are +0.5 mm vs center and all the right are -0.5mm) the bed is not running level. Something got missed in the alignment process. The printer *will* run like this. It will not produce prints that are quite as good as they could be. 

What ever you use for a spacer while doing the bed level will have to be taken out in your slicer. With my "loose" paper approach I use minus 0.15 mm. With a tight feeler gauge, I can push the bed down during the leveling process. That results in a *positive* offset. If the offset is not properly dialed in, you will not get stuff like ABS to stick to the bed. Since both hair spray (how much????) and offset (how much ???) are involved, it can be a bit frustrating. Calipers to measure your paper are very helpful, so is the fact that thickness +/- one layer is the absolute max for any offset. 

I know that fiddling Marlin is *not* recommended while setting things up. Here's what I changed:

1) The minimum Z is clamped at zero in the default. Your -0.15 offset will tell it to go negative .... reset the minimum to -1 mm.
2) The max Y is set a bit short for a dual extruder setup. I bumped it up a bit. Now both heads will cover the entire bed. 
3) The max X is set a bit short if you have the bed extenders and the clips are out of the way. I bumped it up
4) The max Z is set way short. The idea is that you can't have it crash with the defaults. I moved it up quite a bit. 

All of this is in configuration.h. What I had after changes is:

// Travel limits after homing (units are in mm)
#define X_MIN_POS 0
#define Y_MIN_POS 0
#define Z_MIN_POS -1
#define X_MAX_POS 320
#define Y_MAX_POS 310
#define Z_MAX_POS 345

Please do not just use them blindly. Check your printer and use the numbers appropriate to your build. 

*Is* it necessary  to change the Z limit to -1 for the offset to work? I have not dug deep enough into the Marlin code to know. That's way to much like my day job. I simply changed it and moved on. My impression is that it was clamping before I changed it, I did not run a formal experiment to confirm or deny that was the case.

So you *might* think that you are ready to go..... 

Let the machine heat up for 30 minutes. Do a G29 and level the bed again. Do another G29. If the numbers are all the same you are doing great. If you have one or two that are off by 0.1 mm ... join the club. Now go over to control menu in Marlin and do a "store memory". That's the only way to make the bed level permanent.  The machine is stable enough that you want to just save the numbers and not re-level the machine each time you fire it up. Trust me, this is a big change from the kits a few years back .....

Now it's off to print some stuff:

Ramps Fan mount
Wire Covers
Corners 
Bed mounts / bed extenders
LED light holder
Filament guide

I found that the included corners only work with acrylic. I made up some of my own. I also did my own fan mount, bed mounts / extenders and a Ramps mount. If there is interest in them, I'll post them somewhere and link it from here. 

Have Fun !!!

Bob

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## Sailor

If you could post a few pics of how  your wiring was routed that would be helpful.  Also any links to printed cable shields and nylon jackets.

MODERATOR NOTE: Post is late to appear due to delay in obtaining moderator approval

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## microjedi

Hello,

I am slowly progressing through my build.  I am attaching the y extrusion to the frame and they never seem to get tight.  It says to  make sure that they are level with the bottom of the bracket, but when I try to tighten, they rotate and move all around and never seem to get tight.  Any thoughts?

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## BLKKROW

> Hello,
> 
> I am slowly progressing through my build.  I am attaching the y extrusion to the frame and they never seem to get tight.  It says to  make sure that they are level with the bottom of the bracket, but when I try to tighten, they rotate and move all around and never seem to get tight.  Any thoughts?


Check the length of your screw. When I built mine some screw's were to long preventing it from tightening properly.

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## microjedi

> Check the length of your screw. When I built mine some screw's were to long preventing it from tightening properly.


That may be it.  Did you buy new screws, or use washers to fix it?

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## BLKKROW

> That may be it.  Did you buy new screws, or use washers to fix it?


I had a few extra on hand, but if you don't want to purchase any then just use washers.

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## microjedi

I'll have to purchase the washers too.   :Stick Out Tongue:   I am a new guy.  I haven't built up a big stock of extra parts yet.

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## uncle_bob

> If you could post a few pics of how  your wiring was routed that would be helpful.  Also any links to printed cable shields and nylon jackets.
> 
> MODERATOR NOTE: Post is late to appear due to delay in obtaining moderator approval



Hi

The printer has now been re-wired with a dual supply. I'm not real sure that the wire routing in it's current configuration is going to be a lot of help. Are you running a dual extruder and after it's wiring? 

The cable jacket I used the most of was:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Bob

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## uncle_bob

> Hello,
> 
> I am slowly progressing through my build.  I am attaching the y extrusion to the frame and they never seem to get tight.  It says to  make sure that they are level with the bottom of the bracket, but when I try to tighten, they rotate and move all around and never seem to get tight.  Any thoughts?


Hi

If you are using the correct hardware, your extrusions are not tapped deep enough. You can either have Colin swap them out or get a tap and clean up the parts you have. If you have tapped parts before this one is no different. If you have never done it, spend some time with YouTube. There is a bit of a technique to doing it without breaking the tap.

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Ok, here's a picture

(image *should* have been here but it isn't ....)

223_ - 1.jpg

It's a shot of the foot I decided to use. I fiddled around a lot and ultimately decided on a pretty simple design.

Let's see if the image goes through or not. The "post image" button didn't seem to do much.... Drag and drop also did not work.  Try again with a *really* small file ... finally it works.

Next up is the "custom" bed mount piece

224_ - 1.jpg

That is a bit higher resolution than the first one so this is a bit encouraging. The mount piece lets the heater "float' when there is no glass. Put another way, the clamp holds both the glass and the heater in place. That way as the PCB changes size during warmup, things don't move all over the place. 

Bob

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## printbus

> Try again with a *really* small file ... finally it works.


The board currently defaults to inserting images as thumbnails, which people can click on to enlarge. I realized the other day that in the post edit window, you can over-ride this by double clicking on the image and selecting full-size in the properties window that pops up.  Edit your post again and give that a shot.

EDIT: And yeah, the board won't accept the high-res pictures people can get from the phone cameras these days.  I usually resize photos down to about 800x600 pixels before uploading.

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Ok here's a shot of the dual extruder. I played with the thumbnail settings as suggested. It goes from tiny at "medium" to ginormous at "large". The printed part on top of the carriage keeps the wires from drooping down when the print is up around 350 mm tall. It seems to work pretty well . It is simply held in place by the wire ties on the cables. It's quite rigid, even done that way. 



225_ - 1.jpg
Ok, that's not quite so overwhelming on a normal view as it is in the message entry box. Large it is. 

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Here are various shots from around the printer showing wires and how I have the power supplies mounted. As you can tell from the ton of crap all over the place, this still is very much a work in progress. 

225_ - 2.jpg




225_ - 4.jpg


225_ - 5.jpg


225_ - 6.jpg


Ok, so that's the limit for a single post. More to follow. Not quite sure about the thumbnail below ...

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Ok, here's the rest of the pic's



225_ - 7.jpg


Above, tangle of wires going into the Ramps. It's mounted on a custom printed part. The fan mount is also custom. 


225_ - 8.jpg

Above is a slightly different angle on the tangle of wires going into the Ramps. 


That's about as good as I can do with the cell phone. To get better, I'm going to have to pull out the Nikon and do a real photo shoot. If these aren't good enough, let me know what you need to see and I'll try to get the all of the right gear set up.

Bob

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## uncle_bob

> The board currently defaults to inserting images as thumbnails, which people can click on to enlarge. I realized the other day that in the post edit window, you can over-ride this by double clicking on the image and selecting full-size in the properties window that pops up.  Edit your post again and give that a shot.
> 
> EDIT: And yeah, the board won't accept the high-res pictures people can get from the phone cameras these days.  I usually resize photos down to about 800x600 pixels before uploading.



Hi

For those who haven't quite yet guessed, printbus was coaching me through the photo process ... THANKS !!!!

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Here are a few of the printer plugged in with the LED lamp running. It's also a great shot of all the junk ...

226_ - 1.jpg


Above is a front view that gives a pretty good idea of how the 10W LED lamp lights up the printer. The edge of the printed mount is visible in the next picture.  It also gives an idea of just how much shimming I needed to do to get things close to level on a folding plastic table. 

226_ - 2.jpg

Another view of the front of the machine from a different angle.

226_ - 3.jpg

The one above shows the heated bed solid state relay at the lower left and the LED light at the upper right. It also shows how the cables run along the top side of the machine. 


226_ - 4.jpg

This one is a pretty good view of the dual power supplies and how the newer / cheaper Meanwell supplies fit on the machine. I have two simply to give *lots* of power to the heated bed. 

Hopefully that should give people a pretty good idea of what mine now looks like.

Bob

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## BLKKROW

> Hi
> 
> If you are using the correct hardware, your extrusions are not tapped deep enough. You can either have Colin swap them out or get a tap and clean up the parts you have. If you have tapped parts before this one is no different. If you have never done it, spend some time with YouTube. There is a bit of a technique to doing it without breaking the tap.
> 
> Bob


I think the nuts are tapped, but I think the screws are bottoming out in the extrusion.

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## printbus

> I think the nuts are tapped, but I think the screws are bottoming out in the extrusion.


Ah. You guys are talking about the M5 bolts and the nut plates? I know I had a problem on my i3v with the M5 bolts bottoming out, evidenced by a ring from the bolt being cut into the far side of the channel in the extrusion. I solved that by filing off the machining ridge left on the threaded end of the bolts or by adding a washer under the bolt head.

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## microjedi

> Ah. You guys are talking about the M5 bolts and the nut plates? I know I had a problem on my i3v with the M5 bolts bottoming out, evidenced by a ring from the bolt being cut into the far side of the channel in the extrusion. I solved that by filing off the machining ridge left on the threaded end of the bolts or by adding a washer under the bolt head.


Actually its the bolts that screw into the end of the 20x20 extrusions.

I think I may try to find slightly shorter M5 bolts.  I don't have the tools to do any tapping.  If I can't find the bolts, I'll reach out to Colin.

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## uncle_bob

> Actually its the bolts that screw into the end of the 20x20 extrusions.
> 
> I think I may try to find slightly shorter M5 bolts.  I don't have the tools to do any tapping.  If I can't find the bolts, I'll reach out to Colin.


Hi

If we are talking about this:

227_ - 1.jpg


.... and not this (the tiny thing in the middle of the picture):

227_ - 2.jpg


There are two bolts on the first part. Both can be problems. The horizontal one can have an issue with the tapping of the extrusion. The solution for that is a tap or a new part (if it is stripped out). The vertical bolt goes into an insert. The insert can strip out and may need to be replaced. The bolt may be to long and you need to grab the right one. If the insert is stripped out, a snap in insert is an easy thing to replace it with. 

If we are talking about the second mounting structure for the Y axis (second picture), there are a whole bunch of things related to that mount.  

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

So, after some fiddling, the printer is back up and running..... 

Seems that *somebody* (I blame the dog) didn't quite get the e3d hot end tight enough when it was hot. There was a very slow leak that piled plastic up on top of the hot end. Eventually blobs of it started dropping of into prints at various random places. That lead to a lot of "why did the software make it over extrude there?" kind of questions. Needless to say, changing software settings didn't have much impact on the issue. 

Tightening the e3d involves grabbing it with two wrenches / pliers when it's hot. One grabs the top of the heatsink and the other grabs the bottom of the nozzle. Significant force is applied to get things tight. Since it's all running hot *with* the teflon tube in place (in my case) the fan is on and running. .... fan shroud gets pushed down into the hot block .... hot block wins. 

The second part of this is: Print up a second fan shroud (and maybe a third and fourth) *before* the one you have melts down. Getting the hot block up to temperature with a big hole in the bottom of the shroud is not easy.  It appears that the filament used to print up the shroud does not matter much. The original melted pretty fast. 

Pealing back through the layers of goo on the head, I can spot the colors of each of the rolls of filament I've gone through on the machine. This isn't something that just came loose on it's own. It never was adequately tightened ever. Also putting the new fan shroud on, it fits a lot better than the old one. Hmmm..... I suspect that somewhere along the way I shut things down a bit to fast (hot end cool fans stopped to soon) and the heatsink got warm enough to soften the plastic. That may have been part of the reason the fan shroud dropped down while tightening the thing up. 

Again ... it could not possibly have been my fault .. The dog is to blame. Now all I have to work out is which of the three dogs was the one I assigned that task to ... :Smile: 

========

The basic issue here is that you assemble the hot end cold and then mount it up. After that you go through a bunch of work to get things wired up. Way late in the process you "remember" that the hot end needs to be tightened. It now has a PTFE tube in it and that mandates the use of the fan. 

So, here's a suggestion: 

At the point the part is first screwed together (the three metal parts plus the nozzle are mated) you do not have a PTFE tube in it. It's sitting there on your bench. Hmmmm ..... any chance you have an oven? Can it be set to 300C (maybe 250...)? If so, chuck the assembly on a cookie sheet in the hot oven. Let it sit for a half hour. Pull it out (with pliers) and tighten it down. Repeat one or two more times. Do this while you are putting the rest of the printer together. 

Bob

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## BLKKROW

> Hi
> 
> So, after some fiddling, the printer is back up and running..... 
> 
> Seems that *somebody* (I blame the dog) didn't quite get the e3d hot end tight enough when it was hot. There was a very slow leak that piled plastic up on top of the hot end. Eventually blobs of it started dropping of into prints at various random places. That lead to a lot of "why did the software make it over extrude there?" kind of questions. Needless to say, changing software settings didn't have much impact on the issue. 
> 
> Tightening the e3d involves grabbing it with two wrenches / pliers when it's hot. One grabs the top of the heatsink and the other grabs the bottom of the nozzle. Significant force is applied to get things tight. Since it's all running hot *with* the teflon tube in place (in my case) the fan is on and running. .... fan shroud gets pushed down into the hot block .... hot block wins. 
> 
> The second part of this is: Print up a second fan shroud (and maybe a third and fourth) *before* the one you have melts down. Getting the hot block up to temperature with a big hole in the bottom of the shroud is not easy.  It appears that the filament used to print up the shroud does not matter much. The original melted pretty fast. 
> ...


If anyone ever needs the proper way to assemble the E3D V6, use the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr02pG58gaU

This shows you how to assemble it so the heat break creates a natural seal with the nozzle. Using this method I have never needed Teflon tape.

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## uncle_bob

> If anyone ever needs the proper way to assemble the E3D V6, use the following video:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr02pG58gaU
> 
> This shows you how to assemble it so the heat break creates a natural seal with the nozzle. Using this method I have never needed Teflon tape.


Hi

If you attempt to follow the process he shows, you can't execute the steps when you need to within the MakerFarm instruction and build approach. The hot end  / teflon goes into the extruder *many* pages before anything at all is done with the electronics. It's actually quite difficult to do that way within the kit build..

Bob

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## BLKKROW

> Hi
> 
> If you attempt to follow the process he shows, you can't execute the steps when you need to within the MakerFarm instruction and build approach. The hot end  / teflon goes into the extruder *many* pages before anything at all is done with the electronics. It's actually quite difficult to do that way within the kit build..
> 
> Bob


It worked just fine when I built my Pegasus. If you just build the hot end at once it is really easy.

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## uncle_bob

> It worked just fine when I built my Pegasus. If you just build the hot end at once it is really easy.


Hi

If you follow the steps in the instructions, the assembly and debug of the electronics is *way* further along than the hot end assembly. If you follow the step by step, it's a massive detour. If it works for you, fine. My guess is that it will be an enormous hassle for those not used to tossing out the instructions and just going off on their own to assemble a kit. 

===

One interesting thing this all turned up:

Is the max temperature for the thermistor 260, 280, or 300 C?  It seems you can find references all over the map in this regard. The "stock" firmware comes with a limit of 260, but that's just a setting ...

Bob

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## uncle_bob

Hi

Another "build note". 

If you happen to be running a Mac *and* you have upgraded to Macos Sierra (the latest OS) ..... the Arduino app that is used to compile the firmware no longer works. Effectively, you can not put the various settings into firmware on a Mac running the latest OS. That will pretty much stop you dead on any sort of tuning of the firmware. 

=====

Bizarre though it may be, the solution is pretty simple. Delete the existing arduino.app and re-download exactly the same app. Poof !!! it now works again. 

Bob

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## Jhlewis10

Thanks Bob for all the wiring pics.

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## uncle_bob

> Thanks Bob for all the wiring pics.


Hi

No problem !!

Please don't take the wiring stuff as "the only way" to do it. There are a *lot* of options when you get to wiring and cabling this beast. My cable routing is way off compared to what you would do with the Deluxe Upgrade Kit. I'm still on the fence about getting one ....

Bob

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## Jhlewis10

Anything is better than the mess I have.  Now that the printer is not working its a good time to clean it up.

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## uncle_bob

That's ok, just don't take it as some sort of perfect way to go. The nylon jacket stuff is the biggest improvement over "standard" and I stole that from another thread here. I have also pulled the second extruder off since I did the pictures and put connectors on the wiring harness at the extruder end. The one extruder / two extruder thing is a personal choice. The connectors turned out to be a major pain mainly because I spent a lot more time finding a crimp tool than I thought I would. I also put a BL touch on a customized extruder that I designed up. The jury is still out on how good an idea that all was ...

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## Jhlewis10

Cable routing has come a long way much less of a rats nest.  Bob, do  you have your custom printed parts linked up somewhere?

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## uncle_bob

I don't have the parts I did up anywhere at this point. You are the first to ask. They are buried somewhere on the computer ... I'll see if I can dig them up. 

Your printer looks nice. Be sure to check that a tall part can be printed. Running the filament straight over to the extruder can be an issue. Tall parts running into spools can also be a problem.

Bob

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## Jhlewis10

Thanks I will check that.  Been spending time re-leveling everything as my bench has a slick surface and if I bump the printer my shims will move.  I need to design a foot with a leveling screw like on my my washing machine.

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## uncle_bob

If you do the deluxe package, the corner "stuff" will impact how the printer sits on the table. Even with my feet, the printer still slides around on my table. About the only way to stop that would be some sort of soft / sticky plastic stuff.

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## jlhR2

Hello Bob,  Any chance you have rounded up your files and can post them for others to use?

~James

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