# 3D Printing > General 3D Printing Discussion >  Which Printer? - Advice please

## Mattyvdv

Hello all,

First post, looks like a great forum  :Smile: 

I'm sure this question has been asked a few times so if it has please just point me in the direction of the thread. 

The company i work for has an Objet Connex 350 which is a high end printer. The problem is, the high price of material to print using this machine is ridiculously high and of course, only available directly through the seller of the printer. Because of this, i cannot justify doing any "guilt free" prints for fun, for experimentation or for parts to use in our workshop. The high material costs also get reflected when quoting parts for customers and often scares people away. 

So, we are making the decision to purchase a more low end machine which uses far cheaper material. 

This is our main prorities which we are looking for:


Cheap materialReliable - Able to print very often with as little problems as possiblePLA/ABS compatibleCommercial/Industry quality - Well made.

Our secondary list of priorities are:


Price of printer - Under $10,000 - I do not have a minimum price because if a $500 printer meets our requirements then so be it. I understand that printer price doesn't necessarily dictate print quality in the 3d printer world.

Quality printed parts - Reasonable dimensional accuracy, smooth surfaces/low layer thicknessBuild Volume - The bigger the better as long as it can still hold reasonable dimensional accuracy and quality.

We looked into and had a demonstration of the makerbot Z18 however it didnt wow us. The main attraction was obviously the huge build volume but the models presented to us for viewing left us feeling like the $12k pirce tag wanst justified. 

If someone/anyone could throw some suggestions at which printer(s) might be best suitable for my above notes i would be extremely appreciate. Thanks in advance everyone.

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## ralphzoontjens

Hi,

I understand your situation and the same was done at a university I worked for, the Connex printer was only made available to master students and for important models - experiments were only done in special cases because even a small model would already cost $100 or over. +the material gets fragile and brittle so is only suitable for prototypes and demonstrators.

The small printers are underestimated and I recommend the Ultimaker Original. I own one myself and after several years it still works great. It is very accurate and you can print layers as thin as 0.06mm which is very detailed. With dissolvable filament and dual extrusion kit you solve the issue of distortions due to overhangs. With the Z-unlimited system you can print to unlimited heights - http://www.rooiejoris.nl/z-unlimited/  . Part quality also hugely depends on the filament used and in my experience Colorfabb and 3DOM are by far the best filaments. With a heated bed you can do ABS, PC and other engineering plastics. To me the extra build volume doesn't justify the much higher price of the larger printers, since 1. the printer will not be intrinsically better or faster and 2. there is software to slice up larger parts into chunks that can then be put together to create the same large part as you would get from a larger printer.

Another option is an SLS printer which works faster and produces better parts but is for a similar budget limited to a small build volume, and you will need some ventilation. Again, you can simply glue or fasten multiple parts together. Sintratec is one of the producers.

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## LambdaFF

Read the makerbot subforum here and you'll see why walking away was a smart decision.

I own a Printrbot Metal Plus and it has been extremely reliable. I really like it for the quality I get and its sturdyness. Whatever downtime there was was mostly my fault and the only exception is an early series defect that was corrected long ago (and they sent me a fix for free). Their support web portal is efficient and works well even given the time difference US/Europe.

I've posted some stuff here : http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...al-Plus-prints

People on the forum seem satisfied with Lulzbot and Flashforge as well.

If I had the money now I'd go for that one since they are closer to home. http://www.spiderbot.eu/en/

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## curious aardvark

weird I answered this thread this morning - not here. 
wonder where that post ended up ? 

Anyway. 
were I you i'd get a couple of wanhao duplicator i3's mk2.1. $400 and one of the best sub $1000 machines around. 

Then maybe look at the builder range. 
Big volumes, innovative dual material single nozzle setup and sensibly priced. 
http://builder3dprinters.com/
The big builder desktop premium has 210 x 210 x 600 mm build volume.
nozzle that'll mix colours, fully enclosed and around the $4,500 mark 
Pisses on the z18 from a great height :-)

Also worth a look at the bcn3d sigma - currently my favourite printer. just love the independant dual head system. 
https://www.bcn3dtechnologies.com/en...g/bcn3d-sigma/

The ultimakers are good machines. But to be honest some of the newer machines with serious innovations are better value for money and  a bit more plug'n'play

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## Davo

Mattyvdv,

PM me if you'd like to set up a skype/teamviewer session to see and operate our printers remotely.

http://hyrel3d.com

http://3dprintboard.com/forumdisplay...-Printer-Forum

-Davo

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## djprinter

If you're not pinching pennies, than look no further than the ultimaker 2.

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## Mattyvdv

Hi all,

THANKYOU for replying so quick and offering your advice. Extremely appreciated. I will do research on every printer you guys recommended and see which one best suits our needs. will update when/if we make a decision on a specific printer. 

There is a trade show on in Sydney (Australia) today so a few of us are going to attend and hopefully see some printer.  :Smile:

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## Mattyvdv

Hi all, 

Just returned from the trade show today. We saw many 3D Printers but most were too "hobby like". One printer which did impress us was the UP! Box. @ approx $3k and the wide variety of material it can take it certainly caught our eye. They had many models there which seemed very nice indeed. Just wondering if anyone has any advice they can offer me on the UP! Box? 

Cheers!

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## djprinter

UpBox is only $1900 online. It's a good printer, but not as high quality as an ultimaker IMO.

As for the variety of material, the UP-Box can't print anything any other FDM printer with a heated bed cannot.

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## LambdaFF

Fpr that price there are many more attractive options. I mean 2k$ for something that has no heated bed ?????

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## curious aardvark

See previous posts :-)

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## violetprincess

Really can't go wrong with any of these though the ultimaker gets my vote.

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## Charlie1

I recently purchased a $300 Chinese Prusa style printer, and can perhaps provide some insight.

I like the Wanhao machine mentioned - it's a good machine for the price.  But I feel that the prusa style machines as a class are inferior, due to the fact that they need to move the finished work constantly back and forth along the Y axis.  This constant movement results in printer artifacts.  The ultimaker design, in which the printing head moves around the x and y axes in the top of the machine is a superior design.  Ultimaker style machines deliver higher print speeds, and higher quality, than Prusa style machines.

Bowden feeds are superior to direct feeds, simply because removing the stepper motor from the printer head reduces the mass of the head, and thereby its inertia.  The head starts and stops movement more precisely.  In general, anything you can do to lower the moving mass will result in higher print quality.

But with that said, many are mounting dual cooling fans around the print nozzle in an attempt to rapidly cool the molten plastic, which - for some at least - improves print quality.  It is true that people who have used just one fan on one side of the nozzle have experienced very lopsided results.  Cooling the extruded plastic rapidly seems to be a good idea, and doing so evenly is very important.  I'm not an expert in this, but there's sure a trend in that direction.

If you intend to print any plastic other than PLA, you will need a heated bed.  And even if you confine yourself to PLA, a heated bed can still be very useful.  I personally consider a heated bed to be an essential in any modern 3D printer.  You can get away without it - the Dremel attempts to do so - but life is so much easier with a heated bed.

In general, a larger build area is better than a small one.  Many Prusa class machines have a build area of 200mm ^3.  A lot of my projects have been hampered by not having a large build area.  So when you have the option, bigger is always better.

In general, I would recommend the Ultimaker 2+ in the tall version.  I think it clocks in around $3,000 USD, and is probably the best general purpose 3D printer on the market today.  At least, I feel so.

But with that said, the Wanhao duplicator mentioned can also create excellent results.  It won't be quite as good as an ultimaker, but it will be very, very close.  If you slow a Prusa class machine down, the inertia experienced along the Y axis largely ceases to be a problem.  Given that Wanhao machines generally clock in around $500 USD, you could buy 6 Wanhao machines for the price of an Ultimaker 2+ - and 6 machines can definitely put out more stuff than one.  So, from that point of view, 6 Wanhao machines might be the better buy.

I wish I'd bought a Wanhao.  The $300 I spent for the Chinese prusa clone has turned out to be a poor investment.  Had I spent $200 more and bought a Wanhao, I'd probably have wound up a lot happier.

Hope that helps - Charlie1

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## ralphzoontjens

How about an Ultimaker clone, I heard good things about these. For example this list:

*SanjiuPrinter Z360*
PROS

Delta PS is #1 maker of power suppliesUpgraded aluminum filament feeder hardware with dual gears. A big positive!Ultimaker 2.1.4 mainboardPainted underside parts, shows attention to detailUltimaker heatbed with logo (hopefully the quality is like the original)Printed labels for wires, boxes, bags and screwsAll connectors are pre-crimped and ready to attachCorner pieces have vent slots like new Ultimaker 3The part fan assembly on the printhead is the newer versionBetter price
CONS

Didn't use anti-static bags for electronic components! This is no longer a concern for me as I've tested my components without any issues.Corner parts were under sprayed and over sprayed and not done in a clean room. Quality Control is lacking for those painted parts.The printhead uses the older PT100 sensors that don't include fiberglass tubing all the way to the back of the heating block.Short spools holders that can only fit spools up to 70 mm wide. If you need longer spool holders let them know up front otherwise it will cost extra. Short spool holders are part of the UM2+ upgrade kit so it can be good or bad depending on your inventory of spools.
*JennyPrinter Z360*
PROS

Mean Well Power Supply. Top quality PS used in the original UM2Removable and replaceable stepper drivers with 2 spares. They use their own proprietary mainboard not the original Ultimaker.Static bags used for all electronic componentsLonger spool holder, accommodates spools up to 90mm wideCorner pieces are better painted
CONS

Proprietary mainboard with no specifications availableProprietary heatbedOld UM2 filament feeder mechanism which is known to be very problematicDark tinted glass with grid marks (Several owners have complained that chunks of glass come off when removing prints). Very low quality. Recommend you place a PEI sheet on top of the glass to make it more durable.

If anyone has experience with these let me know!

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## dannielgery

Hi. Nowadays 3D printing technology is very much popular in every industry. Due to the high demand and precision, it takes to build these intricate machines. Some 3d printers are:
1. Peachy Printer
2. MakiBox
3. Printrbot
4. Phoenix 3D Printer
5. Romscraj
6. The Buccaneer
7. Solidoodle
8. RigidBot
9. Robo
10. Deezmaker Bukit Mini


I took service from Iannone 3D, which uses in-house Stratasys Fortus printers as well as our network of large-envelope printers for 3D Printing Service in the New Jersey area. For more details visit the website. Thanks.

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## ralphzoontjens

An industrial quality machine for low-ish budget you can also look into is the Stratasys Dimension, it has good quality for functional prototypes in ABS and you can buy used ones for a fraction of the price nowadays.

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