# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > Other 3D Printers / Scanners / Hardware > Kudo3D Titan 1 >  Titan 1 vs. Form 1+

## AbracadabraMan

How does the Titan 1 compare with the new Form 1+ ?  Does anyone know?  Are the resolutions the same?  Are the print speeds the same?

----------


## Hugues

It's on their KS page:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...in/description

----------


## Hedrus

Not even close.  Titan 1 is much better in every way.

----------


## awerby

The Form1+ is a real printer; you can buy one, you can make parts with it; I've got one and I've done it. At this point, the Titan is a Kickstarter page. You can't buy one, you can't make parts with it. Yes, there are claims made on the site, but without a machine to test, who knows how well it will work? Supposedly in November they'll start shipping machines. Maybe it will be better than the Form 1+, but right now, there's no way to compare an actual machine with a virtual one. 

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

----------


## Hedrus

They have been printing our 3d models with Titan 1 prototypes.  It's design specs are better.  The quality from what I have seen is much better at least from a prototype printer.  I almost got a Form1 but the quality just wasn't there for what I wanted.  For printers that are already available I'd say get a B9 Creator.  That printer is much better than the Form1.  I've seen them and met the inventor.  I've had test prints done on one.  I've not been impressed with anything I have seen printed with Form1.  Not to say that amazing artists aren't making great stuff with it.  They just have to clean up the prints a lot more than I would want to.  The Titan 1 hasn't been released yet, but I bought one.  It's specs are better than anything else out there or coming out any time soon in it's price range.  The company has been very very proactive in responding to the kickstarter funders and people in general.  I see no reason not to trust them until they prove me wrong.  If the only 3D printer out there for purchase in a sub $5,000.00 price range was the Form1 I wouldn't be getting one.  But I wouldn't get an FFF printer either.

----------


## kennycoulter

These are the two that I am also interested in.  I sold my Makerbot to my work....

----------


## richardphat

I saw the first picture about the comparison, and to be honest, Titan 1 is just talking thrash.
How can they confuse with laser spot and x/y accuracy. Are they trying to fool the ignorant? 

Gonna laugh at them, if their laser spot is going to end up as big as form1 and pegasus.....

----------


## Hedrus

@richardphat- Could you expand on what you are saying?  Some of the best 3D printers on the market use DLP and not lasers.  Look at Titan 1's photos of their prints.  They don't need to talk "thrash".  The prints look much better.  Plus spec wise it is much higher resolution.  DLP technology is really amazing.  I might have missed something but I don't know what you are talking about with your last sentence.  "Gonna laugh at them, if their laser spot is going to end up as big as form1 and pegasus....." as far as I know there aren't any lasers involved with the Titan 1.  It is a DLP printer.  The resolution of the DLP is much higher resolution than the laser in the Form 1, Form 1+ and the Pegasus.  I researched all the printers that are out there and by far the Titan 1 seems like the best printer.  And there was already a better printer than the Form 1 even a year ago, the B9 Creator.  It is much higher resolution and higher quality of prints.  I've had test prints done on the Form 1 and B9 and the B9 looks much better.  My model was also printed by the titan 1 and the photos I saw of it looks even better yet.  No thrash or trash talk needed.  The proof is in the prints.  How am I wrong?

----------


## richardphat

To answer your question, I called it laser, because I dont always have  the right word to describe. Call it spot light, pixel size. I don't have the english background that everyone has, so I apologize for that.

Hedrus, here's why I am constantly annoyed by kickstarter and busisness bc. 

They did make thrash comparison by tweaking the competitor' spec into some random crap. That is written on the first poster/picture.
Marketing will use hyperbola to impress people. They did use, a lot, in their video and on the kickstarter page.
They will twist wrong thing and make you believe.
Typical kickstarter won't tell you what's the catch with the machine. No one will ever tell you that, until solid review has been done.

Further, comparison of non yet ready product is probably the most irrevelent. Pegasus is not even out yet. FSL3D lab still has the lame excuse from international shipping.

----------


## Hedrus

I understand what you are saying.  I didn't bother with the chart they put up on their kickstarter.  They list the resolution of the DLP projector they are using.  I compared that resolution with what Form1 and Form1+ list on their own website.  The Titan 1 is still at least triple the resolution of the Form 1.  The XY and Z are all much higher resolution.  But like you said, comparing something not yet released is not totally fair.  Look at the B9 Creator.  It's been out about as long as Form 1.  It is much better.  Much higher resolution.  It also uses DLP.  The fact that a 3D printer like the B9 exists at all and is real, you can buy one now should give at least some validity to what Kudo 3D is claiming for their Titan 1.  The B9 and Titan 1 are very close in specs.  Especially with the B9 upgrading to HD DLP.  Titan 1 will be just slightly better.  I'm not saying Form 1 is a bad printer.  Obviously it is a good product.  There are many people that bought it and love it.  For me, it isn't good enough.  I've had prints done on Form 1 and it just isn't good enough.  I am hoping Titan 1 is as good as the photos of objects they say they printed with it.  It's shipping late next month so you will start to see lots of reviews and posts by users.  I don't think there is a need to hate on a product that is trying to be the best.  Even if they twist the truth a bit in their favor.  Fact of the matter is that the Titan 1 on paper has the best sub $5k 3d printer.  If they have problems people will post it all over the internet in a month or 2.

----------


## richardphat

I do encourage honest company, but I don't, when it comes to bragging and self-exageration; especially when it comes in rapid prototyping in early kickstarter campaign. I have seen too much people around me that get screwed by typical misuse of information propaganda.

Because there are people in the busisness world that needs the claimed attributes/specification of the product. 

Which is why I totally despise dishonest company. (Which means nearly all existing company  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): )

My friend, I am also worried about you. It is safe bet to say you don't want to spend 5K $ and at the end of the day it is not working the way you expected.

Now, because I myself has a self interest in the B9 and Titan, does anyone know the typical shrink, distortion from the resin when the product is completely done printing? My boss is looking for an SLA/DLP machine for aerospace research. That I did not find any information.

----------


## Brumbaer

I'm the proud owner of a B9. I use it for models in 1/300 scale - a human is about 6mm high in this scale. Some more information here http://brumbaer.de/index.php/3d-printing

Every printer you buy will have some teething problems.The more mature the less problems and more people being able to help you, because they went through the same problems.

Form specifies *feature size* while Kudo specifies *pixel* size. These are not the same !!!!!!!
I'm comfortable to print features - something to stand alone with a height of some mm - with a size of 150um at a pixel resolution of 50um. 
But I'm not sure how Form defines a feature. 
25um z-steps are not bad, taking resin into consideration. It might be great to have 1um steps, but if you can't make use of it .....

The paper form of the Form 1 might not look impressive, but it's aedequate. Together with the supposed maturity of the product It's good enough to make the Form 1 worth to be considered over the Titan.

You could of course take a B9 and get the resolution of a Titan and the maturity of the Form.

But no matter what the paper states, you will only know whether your decision was right when you used the printer for a month or so and have printed the models *you* want/need to print. 

It would be nice to have a database of printer owners willing to champion their printer - and if you could go to a champion with an typical stl and he shows you how to prepare it for print and finally get it printed on the machine, so you can guess how simple it is to get the job done and what result to expect.

----------


## FerGazz

Any review about Titan1? Pre-orders started in December...

----------


## cokreeate

> Any review about Titan1? Pre-orders started in December...



We have the Titan one will have a review by next week.

----------


## fred_dot_u

There is a Titan 1 from Kudo3d on eBay, item 301486606254 with photos of the full kit.

----------


## co3Dprints

I have done maybe a dozen or so prints with my Titan 1.  There is a learning curve, but the payoff is huge.  It works awesome.
It's as fast as you want to make it and you have a ton of control but there in lies the art of 3D printing.  Just something I wanted to add to a thread that never had a conclusion.
I'll post more samples after the next build of my website that is at www.co3dprints.com.

Jason

----------


## co3Dprints

Oh  yeah, these are test prints.  the Donkey is from thingiverse  http://www.thingiverse.com/roy771216 and the Yoda is part of the sample  test prints from Kudo3D that came with the printer.  These are medium  resolution prints I did at 100µm xy and 50µz.  Took 9 hours for these  prints but I set it up to be ultraconservative could have doubled the  speed probably.

----------


## raysspl

All solid thoughts here. Good to see the pros v cons of both Titan 1 & Form 1+. Looking forward to more Titan owners thoughts as it slowly matures to market.

----------


## kudo3D

Check out our gallery: http://www.kudo3d.com/gallery/

We printed biomedical tissue scaffolds for a biomedical research institute. It's only 1mm by 2mm! Additionally, we also can print the tallest up to 10 inches tall and have the biggest build volume for all desktop SLA 3D printers. (all can be seen in the gallery)

If you have any further questions, you can ask email us at catherinepark@kudo3d.com

----------


## ralphzoontjens

Hi, is there a specific date for the Kickstarter launch of the Kudo3D Bean printer?

I also would like to know if there are specific things to keep in mind with SLA printers regarding maintenance, material costs etc when compared to FDM.
I want to use it for small prototypes so will be regularly using it.

----------


## clemence

> Hi, is there a specific date for the Kickstarter launch of the Kudo3D Bean printer?
> 
> I also would like to know if there are specific things to keep in mind with SLA printers regarding maintenance, material costs etc when compared to FDM.
> I want to use it for small prototypes so will be regularly using it.


It seems that the exact release date is not confirmed yet but there is news that the material costs is $75 for 3 bottles of 250ml resins (at least on Kickstarter).
That sounds reasonable and maybe even competitive than FDM printers.

----------

