# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  12" I3V Build

## Dustin B

Been mostly lurking for a couple weeks.  Ordered a 12" I3V (1.75mm E3D V6, Greg's and Rumba with Graphical LCD) on the weekend and am starting this thread for two reasons.  To get any feedback I can on what those before me would do differently on their initial build and as a place holder for anything I learn/need help with during the build.  Been reading through the two sticky threads and a few others in the forum. So far there are a few things I know I'm going to be changing during the build.


I've ordered the SS Relay and heatsink already to convert the heat bed to PID (not sure what the implications are of the built in relay Colin now ships it with)I'll be buying some extra baltic birch plywood and at a minimum beefing up the Y-axis endsOrdered some 5mm-5mm Z couplers that I will also be drilling and tapping to add set screws to on top of the squeeze screws already on themThread locker will be used liberally during the buildOnce up and running the first prints will be replacement end stop mounts and guides/protection brackets for the top of the threaded rodsPrint one of the print cooling ducts and depending on how my steppers end up temp wise adding some heat sinks or active coolingPretty sure I'll add an out of filament detector relatively soon after completionEither build a small torsion box or just a 3/4" sheet of mdf to mount it to (if I go to the trouble of a torsion box I'll make sure to do a little extra planning so that could be part of an enclosure for the printer)

Not planning on ABL initially but may change my mind later.  Bought this power supply to run my LIPO chargers but have since bought a different supply for that and will be using the linked one for the printer.

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## Chadd

I would also recommend you setup auto bed leveling as it makes life so much easier. You will need to print the servo mount parts and get yourself a servo.

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## tsteever

...and a high quality micro switch for the servo.

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## Dustin B

Two votes for ABL and only Colin and one other guy I've seen in my browsing on this forum against it. Might end up happening sooner than later then :P 

Any thoughts on passive heat sinks on the axis steppers? They are pretty cheap online so can't see how they'd hurt. 

Might start with that on the extruder too and go active if I notice them getting too hot.

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## Chadd

Are you talking about heat sinks for the motors or stepper drivers? My kit came with small heat sinks for the drivers, my motors have never gotten hot enough that I would consider cooling for them.




> Two votes for ABL and only Colin and one other guy I've seen in my browsing on this forum against it. Might end up happening sooner than later then :P 
> 
> Any thoughts on passive heat sinks on the axis steppers? They are pretty cheap online so can't see how they'd hurt. 
> 
> Might start with that on the extruder too and go active if I notice them getting too hot.

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## Dustin B

I was talking about the motors.  Just seen the mods for shrouds to do active cooling on the motors and the talk of adjusting the voltage to the stepper motors to the lowest point where they don't miss steps but run cool.  Didn't realize the drivers on the Rumba board would be potentially more of an issue.  But now that you mention it I've seen designs for shrouds and mounts for the electronics too just not any threads on here about it.

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## printbus

Dustin - For a lot of 2014, MakerFarm shipped kits with a different motor that tended to run very hot, and some people were using heatsinks or fan shrouds to help cool them.  For about the last year, kits have been shipped with motors that are better suited for the 3D printer application. The new motors don't run any where near as hot and shouldn't require anything as far as cooling.

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## Dustin B

Sounds good.  One less thing to worry about tweaking is good.

What slicer should I start with?

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## tsteever

I found the I get better Z results by cranking up the voltage on the driver a bit. The downside is that it runs very hot. I added a fan to the control board to keep it cool. The only other time I worried about my stepper motors is with my modified extruder. I went with am Itty Bitty belted design and found the motor got quite hot. I ended up redesigning the gears to gain some mechanical advantage and not the motor hovers around 40 degrees. The fan shroud can be found here from thingiverse.

As far as slicers, I started with slicer but could never get the results I was after. I love how many options you have control over however. The mid print performance seemed to be messy and not done well. The movements are very efficient. I just couldn't get the extrusion to look the way I want. I have found that I get very good top layer performance from it...but it took a lot of tweaking. I have to tweak a lot per roll to get it acceptable.

I have been using Mattercontrol and I really like it. I get awesome prints time and time again vs. Slic3r. The top layer isn't as tweak able but it is acceptable. What I like is that I can just enter the specific diameter of the filament I am using and I get an awesome print. I highly recommend it. 

I want to try simplify3d but can't get myself to pay for it. I'd really like a demo but they do not offer one. I haven't found a direct comparison between Mattercontrol and simplify3d yet.

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## Dustin B

What do you mean by mid print and top layer and what controls do slicers give you that can affect them?

So easy to get swept up into the hardware but I'm starting to realize more that the slicing software and it's configuration is going to be equally if not more important than the hardware.

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## tsteever

In slic3r, you can control the top layer extrusion width and speed. You cannot control them separately in Mattercontrol. I had the top layer extrusion set slower and narrower than my other layers. It resulted in a very smooth and uniform top layer. The mid layers however use the same settings as other layers. I felt that slic3r over extruded in the middle. When I adjusted the flow rates for those layers, my top layer would suffer. I could never find the balance. 

I don't have that issue with Mattercontrol. I have been told that S3D is amazing and worth the price. I find I get great results with MC. Here are a few pics... The first pic was sliced with Slic3r. Take a look at the overhangs. Yuk! The second kind shows the overhangs. Same print, same settings. I know it is different material but both were PLA from the same manufacturer. Trust me, it is the slicer. I have printed this design multiple times. The MC slicer wins ever time. IMG_3276.jpgIMG_3400.jpg

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## BLKKROW

I currently use Simplify 3D and I love it. You can customize everything you ever wanted and the support options are incredible.

I used Slic3r for over a year and couldn't get consistent prints. I would highly recommend S3D.

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## Mysta

> I would also recommend you setup auto bed leveling as it makes life so much easier. You will need to print the servo mount parts and get yourself a servo.


Does this go for the Pegasus as well?

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## Dustin B

Got the printer on Friday (got the brake job on my car done yesterday and now only 2 more projects before I can start building it).  Opened the box to check I got everything and to take some photos of the build in relay on the heat bed.
bottom.jpg
top.jpg

So what would you do to switch to PID control?  Just add a jumper wire, remove the relay and add a jumper wire in it's place, remove the relay and move the one 12 guage power wire?

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## printbus

Thanks for posting a pic of the relay.  A few have mentioned the built-in relay, but I believe you're the first to provide a picture of it.  This reveals the heat bed is using the same 30-amp G8QN Omron mechanical relay that is used on the standalone relay board.  

To go the PID route, you'd first want to remove the two small black wires from the heat bed.  You might be able to reuse the wires to control the SSR, but the SSR will require you to keep the polarity straight between the electronics board and the SSR.  The mechanical relay didn't care.  

After that, removing the relay depends on how comfortable you are in attempting to remove it.  The two pins that solder to the wide traces would be a problem for some.  I'd probably just jumper across those two pins with some heavy wire, leaving the relay there in case you roll back to using it.  There'd be two options to jumpering across the pins.  You could move the heavy gauge wire from the wide trace just going to the relay to the relay pin connecting to the other wide trace, but the solder pad there is smaller.  The other option would be to scrape away the soldermask on the two wide traces where they are the closest and build a solder bridge to short the two traces together.

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## Dustin B

Just to make sure I understand since I've never done any significant electronics work.  The relay has 5 pins.  The two small wires are going to the pins that control the electromagnetic switch.  The pin between those two is the common pin.  Then with the two left, the one on the wide trace is the normally open pin and the one not connected to a trace is the normally closed.  So then when current is applied to the small wires it closes the switch which disconnects the normally closed path and connects the normally open path.

Would it be possible to jumper the common and normally open pins with some sort of temperature fuse so if the the heat bed ended up getting too hot the fuse would blow?

I've got an Aoyue 9378 60 Watt soldering station with a 10 piece set of tips.  But my usage of it so far has been splicing wires, doing EC3 and EC5 and motor/esc connections for my RC stuff.  And that hasn't been a lot.  So I have the right tools, just not a lot of technique with it yet :P

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## printbus

> Just to make sure I understand since I've never done any significant electronics work.  The relay has 5 pins.  The two small wires are going to the pins that control the electromagnetic switch.  The pin between those two is the common pin.  Then with the two left, the one on the wide trace is the normally open pin and the one not connected to a trace is the normally closed.  So then when current is applied to the small wires it closes the switch which disconnects the normally closed path and connects the normally open path.


Correct. 




> Would it be possible to jumper the common and normally open pins with some sort of temperature fuse so if the the heat bed ended up getting too hot the fuse would blow?


In theory, yes.  The challenge would be to find a suitable temperature fuse that can handle the high current of the heat bed, while also adding as little resistance in the path as possible.  




> I've got an Aoyue 9378 60 Watt soldering station with a 10 piece set of tips.  But my usage of it so far has been splicing wires, doing EC3 and EC5 and motor/esc connections for my RC stuff.  And that hasn't been a lot.  So I have the right tools, just not a lot of technique with it yet :P


A 60-watt tool and the experience with the heavy EC3 and EC5 would likely make the pins on the wide traces easy to deal with.  If removing the relay, you'd need a solder sucker or solder wick to remove solder from individual pins or a hot air rework tool to soften the solder on all pins at once.

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## Dustin B

Finally started building the printer  :Smile: 

IMG_20160217_082001.jpg

What do I set "#define POWER_SUPPLY" to in the configuration.h file using this power supply?

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## Dustin B

Oh and how freely should the delron wheels turn? Really tightening the screws on the aluminum build plate makes it so they can't turn. Can't get things that tight on the wood. Loosening it so the wheels turn really freely more than just the wheels turn. What I think is the best middle ground between the two still has the wheels a little stiffer than I'd like. Is it preferrable to have a the wheels a little stiff to help keep things under control?

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## BLKKROW

> Oh and how freely should the delron wheels turn? Really tightening the screws on the aluminum build plate makes it so they can't turn. Can't get things that tight on the wood. Loosening it so the wheels turn really freely more than just the wheels turn. What I think is the best middle ground between the two still has the wheels a little stiffer than I'd like. Is it preferrable to have a the wheels a little stiff to help keep things under control?


You want the wheels to spin but not wiggle or be loose on the rail.

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## Dustin B

> You want the wheels to spin but not wiggle or be loose on the rail.


By spin do you mean you start them turning and they will continue to spin on their own, or just that they turn with minimal force?  Seems tricky to get them tight enough to not wobble and still spin freely enough to continue turning on their own once started.

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## printbus

> What do I set "#define POWER_SUPPLY" to in the configuration.h file using this power supply?


The short answer is the POWER_SUPPLY definition likely won't make a difference to you.  Unless you've added some power control mechanism onto the printer, that power supply and your printer will be on whenever there's AC on the power cord, and there's nothing firmware can do about it.  

In at least older versions of Marlin...  Firmware control of the power supply needs to start by having the printer electronics core always powered up, even when the printer power supply is off. The 12V supply on the printer is then used for just heaters, fans, and motors.   ATX power supplies have a standby 5V output that often gets used for keeping power on the electronics.  For non-ATX power supplies, you need to provide some other dedicated 5V source for the printer electronics.  Power from USB is one way, at least until more 5V load like an ABL servo gets added.  With that problem solved, then you have to identify an Arduino pin that can be allocated as the output used to control the power supply. This is done through the PS_ON_PIN definition in the pins.h file.  If the pin definition is -1 (the default), there's no firmware control over the power supply and the POWER_SUPPLY definition isn't used.  

When a pin has been allocated for the power control function, the POWER_SUPPLY value defines whether the control will be active low or active high.  A POWER_SUPPLY value of 1 means a low logic level output will turn the power supply on, which is what you'd use if you're wanting to turn an ATX-type power supply on and off.  A POWER_SUPPLY value of 2 means a high logic level will turn the power supply on, which would typically be used if you're using a relay to switch the AC power input to the power supply on and off. If using a relay, people are then often surprised to learn that they have to add a MOSFET or some other driver that can interface between the Arduino processor pin and the high current draw of the relay.  

Only a few people bother with firmware control over the power supply. Some have wanted to turn the power supply on and off from the printer LCD panel. A menu item will appear for this once a pin is allocated for power control in the pins.h file.  Some others have added remote print capability (typically with a Raspberry Pi) and want to be able to turn the printer on and off remotely as well. 

Marlin has been undergoing some major overhaul over the last several months.  I have no idea how much this changes in the newer versions.

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## tsteever

I too had the question of how tight the wheels should be when building. What I found to be a good tension was tight enough to take the wobble out, and then just a tad tighter to keep things in control. You still should be able to spin the wheels with minimal force. They will not spin freely at that point. There is a small window on spinning smoothly under control and binding. If there is wobble, they are too loose. If they spin freely when you flick them...too loose.

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## Dustin B

K, that's along the lines of what I was currently thinking.  I think I have them slightly too tight right now.  They currently don't take constant force to turn.  It goes up and down slightly.  I think I want to back it off until they require consistent force to turn rather than jerk a bit through turning as they currently are.  I might end up talking to my father in law (designs and sells hydraulic systems) and see what he can get for replacement bearings that might work better.

Thanks for the great explanation printbus.  That helped a lot.

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## printbus

I'd argue that something is wrong if tightening the wheel mounting bolt changes how freely the wheel spins.  The only way it should make a difference is if the nut is backed off enough that the inner race isn't held tight and it's spinning on the bolt. IMO that's way too loose; I prefer for the bolt to tighten solidly on the inner races.  That said, there's a few things to note.

These are greased bearings, which do require some run time to loosen up.  

The OD of the inner races are pretty small, and don't clear the rotating part of the bearing by much.  Make sure the nut, bolt head, spacer, or anything else mating with the inner race ONLY touches the inner race.  You don't want anything rubbing on the rotating part of the bearing beyond the inner race.  Add some shims if there's a doubt.  

Did your wheels come preassembed?  It might be worth taking one apart to make sure there's a proper shim washer installed between the two bearings. The problem here is that the wheels are wider than the two bearings are, and the shim washer is required to make up the difference between the two bearings.  If there's no shim washer installed, the bearings aren't fully seated in the wheels, or the shim washer isn't thick enough,  tightening the wheel mounting bolt puts axial pressure on the inner and outer parts of the bearing, which will cause binding in the bearings.  Note that openBuildsPartsStore has precision washers for this - http://openbuildspartstore.com/precision-shim-10x5x1mm/

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## Dustin B

Ah, now I get it.  They came assembled and I never took one a part.  There is definitely a washer between the bearings but it must not be thick enough compared to the ridge in the middle of the wheel (I didn't know there was a ridge there, but makes complete sense it has to be there after I think about it, how else would the wheel be captured).  So ya the ridge being thicker than the washer between the bearings means tightening down will pull the inner races closer together than the ridge in the wheel allows the out races to come together causing all the issues.  Someone else mentioned using the 5mm washers supplied to replace the washers between the bearings in the wheels.  I'll see what's up with mine tonight.  I might have some shims from my RC stuff that will allow me to fine tune it, if not I'll be doing some looking around tomorrow after work.

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## Dustin B

And I just realized that my Traxxas Slash RC uses 5x8x0.5 teflon washers in the wheel hubs.  So maybe just adding one of those to the washer that's there will solve my issues.  If not, 2 or 3 of the teflon ones likely will.  A package will be a couple bucks at any place that carries Traxxas parts.

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## Dustin B

1/8 scale nitro clutch bell shims are 5mm inner too.  Easily found down to 0.1mm thickness too.

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## Dustin B

So the bearings in the delrin wheel measure 11mm.  The bearings by themselves measure 10mm.  The washer they came with is 0.8mm.  Add a 0.2mm clutch bell shim, tighten down nice and firm and it turns completely smooth, no binding at all.  Two teflon washer from the slash are a little thicker than 1mm and seem to compress.  There was no binding but not as smooth as the metal clutch bell shim.  The precision 1mm washers recommended above are highly recommended.  Colin should be sending these kits out with those.  I'm not going to wait for them as I can get enough 0.2mm shims from a local hobby shop that's minutes from my house.

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## Dustin B

So didn't work out that 0.2mm shims worked every time, but with enough playing around with combinations of shims I got all the wheels turning completely smooth after being really torqued down tight with no side to side play.  I highly recommend picking up some shims, the extra effort is well worth it (5x7x0.1 : 5x7x0.2 : assorted set)  Should finish up most of the mechanical assembly this afternoon and later tonight, then it's on to assembling the extruder/hotend and wiring it.

The relay had solder on both sides of the board and I was unable to get it cleanly removed.  Ended up cutting it off and then getting the pins left behind out.  Little work with a reamer and a 14 gauge sold copper wire just fit in the hole.  Got that soldered up and continuity still checks out.

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## Dustin B

Didn't get as much time as I would have liked yesterday but made some progress.  Got a 3/4" mdf base cut for it and made 2 braces to prevent any flex around the y-axis belt attachment points.  Paid close attention to the diagonal measurement of the y rails making sure they were perfectly square before screwing the front brace down.  Also cut two small blocks and screwed them down to force the two parts of the frame to be square to each other.  Also pushing down on the z motor mounts before screwing the fame into these blocks pulled the rest of the frame flat to the MDF pulling the z-axis rails into being perpendicular to the MDF.  Without being pulled down flat they were leaning a bit towards the back of the printer.  Once I'm up and running I might print some nicer braces to replace these crude plywood ones.

Tensioned the y belt with it off the base which flexed the frame in a bit, then putting it back over these braces added that extra little bit of tension to the y belt making it nice and tight.  Belt doesn't track well on the y idler though so I'll definitely be printing a new idler that has a lip to keep it in place. After it was tensioned I also cut a small block that wedges in between the back of the y motor and frame so the mount doesn't have to take all the torsional force from the belt being tensioned.

IMG_20160220_245737042.jpg

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## Dustin B

Here's my solution to the x belt connections until I have it working and can make printbus's replacement.  Just a small piece of roof flashing cut to act as a washer that spans the two screws.  Replaced the 16mm m3 screws with 20mm m3 screws I had from my RC stuff to.
IMG_20160221_141604099.jpg

I ordered two of these z-couplers from Colin.  Drilled and tapped them to have 3mm set screws as well as the pinch screws they came with.  So I filed some flat spots on the bottom of my threaded rod.  No worries about the tubing letting go now.

IMG_20160221_164142314.jpg

Only issue is the way I have them connected to the lead screws right now the lead screws are tall enough they'll interfere with the spool holder.  So I either have to adjust them or cut them down a bit.  Not sure if it's better to have them nearly touching inside these couplers or to cut them down.  Guess I could also just leave them as the spool hold doesn't have to turn and I'll likely make a different lower profile one relatively soon.

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## Dustin B

So ya, read the instructions more carefully when assembling the Greg's extruder.  When I was tightening the second locking nut wasn't thinking and put a wrench on the bolt head instead of holding the spur gear (end result I turned the nut inside the capture in the spur).  Nothing some epoxy couldn't fix though :P  I also had to clean a bunch of globs out of the teeth in the spur as they were causing it to bind.  Sure hope after I'm done tweaking and tuning my I3V 12 prints better than the supplied extruder was printed.

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## printbus

Printing better quality parts than what you received shouldn't be an issue. Multiple people have chimed in with how they were quickly able to print better looking parts.  I'm sure Colin prints his parts as fast as he dare, which doesn't help with print quality.  

On the z-rods, I have mine touching the tops of the motor shafts.  I wanted to minimize the possibility of the helical coil of the couplers acting as a vertical spring. Clough42 suggests adding a small ball bearing or BB between the motor shaft and the Z-rods, so that's another option to consider.

EDIT: BTW, many people have decided to move away from the OEM spool mount for a couple of reasons, so bear that in mind before you trim off the z-rods to clear it.

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## Dustin B

Ya I'm leaving the rods alone for now as I tightened the spool holder down so it won't turn easily.  I'll replace it eventually.

I'd read about the ball bearing thing between the motor and lead screw, thought that was just for the tubing.  I'll pick a couple up and add them into mine.

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## Dustin B

IMG_20160222_212128976.jpgIMG_20160222_212128976.jpg

Wife cut and sewed two layers of 1/8" Meta-Aramid Felt for the insulation on the build plate.  I had bought a fire blanket as I'd seen recommended else where, as this felt was bought to make some LIPO charging bags.  The fire blanket was useless and a waste of money.  Frayed very badly and was impossible to sew into something that would last.  This felt on the other hand was awesome.  Cut the bottom layer to fit around the end stop bolt and the belt connector parts sticking through.  Top layer isn't cut up except for around the wheel mount bolts.  Bottom layer just has holes cut out for those.  Will insulate very well and I don't have to worry about it starting on fire. The wood will burn before this stuff will.

Discovered last night that I'm missing the e3d v6 plate for mounting to the greg's extruder.  Colin will ship one out but I think I'll end up making my own out of some 1/4" ply before it will get here.

I noticed the recess in the extruder is a little deeper than the flange on the v6.  Should I sand the extruder down until the flange is flush with the bottom, or will the slight gap between the top of the v6 and the bottom of the recess in the extruder not matter at all?

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## printbus

Interesting approach for the insulator.  You could probably market that...   I'd make up another one, without any of the holes and maybe oversized a bit, for use as a cover insulator over the glass.  Placing the additional one above the glass when heating should help the bed heat up faster and reach a more uniform temperature.  Placing it above the glass when the printer isn't in use would help protect the glass from dust, finger oil if you have nosy people around, and damage should something fall onto the glass. 

How the hot end fits into the extruder has came up before, at least with the hexagon hot end.  IMO, the need to do something may depend on how well your mounting plate fits the U-channel in the hot end.  If the plate grabs the channel pretty well, there's likely no issue.  Instead of sanding down the extruder for a better fit, a more common solution is to shim up the hot end.  I used to add multiple layers of kapton tape with a small hole for the filament cut into the kapton. Once you're printing, there's at least one printable shim design out there somewhere specifically for use in that space between the hot end and the extruder.   

I resolved that gap, along with numerous other nuances I saw with the extruder parts, in my Greg's Wade suite redux available on Thingiverse.

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## Dustin B

The birch markerfarm supplies seems to be a very snug fit (will have to be pressed in won't slide easily) and the G1S fir plywood I have is 5 thousands thicker then the birch.

That's an interesting thought for a top cover.  5 weeks till kid number 2 so not sure if I'll manage to talk her into doing a bit more work :P

Picked up some M2.5 screws and nuts to modify the end stops with at noon today.  I also picked up something similar to fun tack I plan to use to hold the wires in the V grooves for wire management until I print something or buy some channel inserts.  Hopefully I'll get a mounting plate and the last of the mechanical assembly done tonight.  Then on to wiring and software/calibration.  Hopefully I'll have my first benchy printed sometime this weekend.

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## Dustin B

Mounting plate was pretty trivial to make.  1/2" router bit cuts a slot that nicely fits the e3d v6.  Made the slot too deep on first attempt, but using that to make the adjustments I had a perfect fit on the second attempt.  Too bad I wasted a bunch of time trying to shim with kapton tape before I decided making the slot shorter would work better.  Hopefully I'll have it all wired up by the end of tonight.

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## Dustin B

Question on the wiring.

Rumba4.jpg

The hot bed 12V 11a input.  Is that even needed when I'm using a SSR or does the hotbed output from the board not have any power without power to the hot bed input?

Colin's wiring examples show two completely separate wires run from the power supply to logic board stepper input and the hot bed input.  Is that necessary or can I just add a y to the wire from the power supply just before the board (I'm using 14 gauge)?

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## printbus

The 11A input will also need 12V going to it in order for the heat bed output to have any voltage to drive the SSR.   You won't need much current.  It's fine to run some light gauge jumpers from the other 12V input over to the 11A input.

EDIT: The power input for the heat bed is kept separate in order to support those people who run a different voltage heat bed, like 24V.

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## Dustin B

And is thermal paste really necessary between the SSR and heatsink.  Isn't the SSR pretty big overkill for the DC the heat bed will be running?

SSR
Heatsink

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## printbus

Hopefully someone with an SSR and heatsink used with a 12-inch heat bed will chime in.  How hot the SSR gets depends on the current rating and the quality of the MOSFET inside it.  IIRC some have reported their SSR getting pretty warm.  If the MOSFET is only rated for around the 40-amp limit on the SSR, there could be enough on-resistance that it'll dissipate noticeable heat with a 12-inch bed hanging off it.  Some that have built their own MOSFET board have used up to like a 200-amp MOSFET in order to ensure a very low on-resistance.  Those would dissipate very little heat.  There's also so much counterfeit and knock-off stuff out there that you don't know what you're really getting these days, especially from sources like eBay and Amazon.  

You could always try it without the heatsink grease and see how warm it gets.

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## BLKKROW

I have an SSR and used TIM (thermal interface material). My heatsink barely gets warm after printing for 18+ hours.

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## Dustin B

I'll try it without and keep an eye on it's temp.  Any thoughts on what range would be concerning?

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## BLKKROW

> I'll try it without and keep an eye on it's temp.  Any thoughts on what range would be concerning?


If I were you I would use TIM. The fact is the heat sink and SSR are not perfectly flat, so they will not have a lot of contact without the TIM. This means you might have thermal runaway that might burn something.

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## Dustin B

Can you test the movement direction and homing of the axis from the marlin lcd menus?

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## printbus

You can do basic movements from the LCD, yes.  It's been a year since I ran Marlin, but I think you can only home all three axis, not each axis selectively.  You can also move each axis by fixed increments of distance.  Rotating the knob CW should give you "positive" movement, rotating CCW will give you negative movement. Until you do a homing action,  "zero" is where ever the nozzle is when the printer is first turned on, which can make it easy to slam against a mechanical stop with large movements from the LCD.  

Note that in at least legacy versions of Marlin, Z can only be commanded to move in 0.1mm or 1.0mm steps.  For some reason the developer(s) didn't want to allow 10mm steps on Z.  In other words, the option to move Z won't show up when you've selected 10mm incremental movements. This is a common area of confusion for those starting out.  

This is a more thorough Marlin menu tree than the one that Colin at least used to provide in the build guides - http://mauk.cc/mediawiki/images/LCDmenu.pdf  Home all axis is the Auto Home under the prepare menu. Axis movements are under the Move Axis item also on the prepare menu.

EDIT: Extruder motor movement is also possible on the move axis submenu tree.  Just note that protections built into Marlin won't let you move the extruder motor if the hot end is not above a low temp threshold.  The intent is to keep you from trying to move the motor when the filament is "frozen" in the hot end.

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## Dustin B

Got the wiring finished.  And using the menus I've verified all the steppers are working and moving in the right directions.  All the end stops are working.  Both thermistors give readings.  The hot end fan runs and both the hotend and the heat bed will heat up.  So tomorrow or saturday I'll fine tune the end stops and level the bed.  Run the auto tune on the hotend and heatbed and verify the thermistors are reading in the right ball park.  Get the extruder steps per mm configured (unless it's really off this will just be using the multipler from the slicer).  Then print some test bars to verify x and y steps per mm.  Then print benchy  :Smile: 

Anything I'm missing in this list?

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## Dustin B

Oh and the pointometers or whatever they're called on the stepper controllers.  How likely am I to need to adjust them.  What should I be looking for to tell if a motor is skipping steps.  And I assume just watch temp to decide if they are running too hot?  There's some way to measure them isn't there, but unless you have a really steady hand and the right equipment is it advisable?

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## printbus

There are a lot of resources on the web that can help guide through calibration and efforts involved in bringing a new printer up.  Here's just one that touches on some of your current questions - http://reprap.org/wiki/Calibration

Your list of early efforts seems pretty complete.  I'd maybe add that on early prints, scrutinize how the bottom layer turns out.  Good prints will rarely result if the bottom layer has issues.

One crude way to gauge heatsink or component temperature is to simply feel the amount of heat.  Anything that feels uncomfortably warm to touch is something that should be looked into.  The stepper drivers will automatically stop driving their motor if they get too hot, which would be very noticeable. Other than that, just touch the heatsinks every now and then on some of your longer initial prints and see how they feel.  

On the stepper motor driver adjustments, there's arguably two main camps of opinion.  One is to adjust them to for the current spec of the motors, assuming you know what that is.  This approach is argued as providing the highest degree of precision to each of the movement steps.  The other camp feels this is overkill, and that you can successfully print with the stepper drivers adjusted significantly lower.  Higher currents lead to the printer making a lot of harsh noise as the motors are rotated.  Adjusting to lower currents can lead to the printer running far quieter.  In my case, I noticed that running at lower drive currents also helped eliminate some flutter observed on the X-belt and Y-belt during long moves, as well as eliminated resonances that would come and go as movements were accelerated and decelerated. EDIT: Beerdart later describes how to adjust for the lower current drive level.

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## beerdart

I adjust my steppers while moving adjust till movement stops then slowly increase till you get movement then add some.

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## beerdart

Petg......

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## Dustin B

Accidentally deleted the post beerdart responded to.  I'll try to remember exactly what I said:

Getting a little ahead of myself, but I've got PLA, ABS and PETG, what would you use to print replacement idler pulleys?

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## Dustin B

Got the bed levelled reasonably well, I don't think my glass is perfectly flat.  But the nozzle is lightly to slightly more than lightly dragging a piece of paper around the build plate.

Got the autotune done.  The heat bed ends up reading within 3 degrees of my thermapen at the edge between the heater and the glass. SSR heatsink (with thermal paste) seems to sit around 40C.  Sandwhiching the thermapen tip to the heater block on the V6 right next to the tip it ends up reading about 15C low to the set temp the thermistor is reading (I have set it to 5 in Marlin).  Not sure how accurate of a reading I'm getting with the thermapen and this technique.  I guess I just adjust temps for the different plastics to what ends up working best.  Kinda makes telling other people your temps somewhat meaningless since my 225 could be +/- 20 from your 225.

Tried to do some googling and getting results all over the map.  What do you guys do:  When you're done printing do you leave the filament in the hotend or remove it?  And what process do you follow to feed in new filament when you hit the end of a spool?

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## printbus

The hot end temperature seems to always read low when people try to independently measure it.  The reprap temperature measurement isn't a calibrated measurement, and yes you should pay more attention to your print results than a suggested temperature setting. 

I leave the filament in the printer until I'm about to run out or want to change to a different material or color.   NEVER shut off the printer with the hot end hot.  That'll cause heat to creep up into the heat break tube and heatsink area.  Any filament that melts up in the heatsink area will create a plug that is a PIA to deal with.  

If I've been printing and want to remove the filament when I'm done, with the hot end still hot I just release the guidler holding the filament against the hobbed bolt and pull the filament straight up out of the extruder.  The filament may be stringy, so just keep pulling until there's nothing else coming out of the extruder.   I'll typically cut the last couple of inches of filament off with an anvil cutter to remove the part that had previously ran by the hobbed bolt and to provide a nice clean angle on the end of the filament that helps with refeeding it in the future.  The loose end of the filament should always be clipped to the roll. Filament loosening on the spool can lead to the filament not unrolling well later. 

If I want to swap filament and the printer is cold, I'll go through a few more steps.  I learned the hard way that pulling up on a filament before the hot end is ready to release it can cause the filament to snap off and make things harder to deal with. I bring the hot end up to temperature, and let it soak a bit to make sure any plug in the heat break tube is softened. I'll then test to see if the filament is ready to be pulled by EXTRUDING a short amount.  Once I know the filament is soft enough to be extruded, then I'll release the guidler pressure and pull up on the filament as usual.

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## Dustin B

Hadn't read the never turn off the hot end cooling fan tip. Thanks for saving me that headache as I'm sure I would have done that.

What do you do to keep the filament dry when you've left it in the print? Although with Saskatchewan winter humidity I don't think I'll have much of an issue.

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## printbus

The humidity stays pretty low in the Denver, CO area too. I haven't fretted much over humidity, but I do keep filament rolls in industrial zip seal bags with at one or two of the small dessicant packets that come with filament as a precaution.  I've been meaning to purchase some larger, reusable dessicant pouches but available funds always seem to be going elsewhere instead.  

Some keep rolls and dessicant in a 5-gal bucket with a good sealing lid, like a paint bucket. Buckets commonly found at big box stores like Home Depot typically don't have a seal in the lid, so they won't seal as well.

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## Dustin B

Well I'm pretty happy for first PLA prints.  Used MatterSlice, hairspray, 70C bed, 200C hotend, 0.4mm nozzle, 0.3 layer height (0.2 for the first layer) and 25% triangle infill, 60mm/s infill, 30mm/s inside perimeter and 70% of that for outside perimeter, 3 layer perimeter.  Took 16min to print each one.

X and Y 200mm test bars

Both measure such that the rounding to the nearest step means I don't change either my x or y steps per mm.  The x one is a little warped as I pried it off the bed before letting it cool enough.

Only thing I'm a little worried about is a clicking sound my printer is making during some movements.  Can't figure out where it's coming from.

Video of my first print that includes the clicking sound

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## Dustin B

Guess the infill setting did nothing as just noticed it's set to do the first mm and the last mm solid and the model is 2mm tall.  Although my completed part measured closer to 2.4mm.  Is 4000 the correct steps per mm for the supplied lead screws?

I'll give the idler pulley's a try tomorrow with PETG.  Gonna try 85C bed and 240C hotend.  0.2mm and 100% infill, no raft or supports.  Any other setting recommendations or suggestions to change the ones I'm planning.

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## printbus

Congrats on the first prints and a fairly painless startup. 

On the clicking, one suggestion is to use a short length of garden hose or similar tubing as a listening aid to help locate the source.  I know I had a very annoying click that seemed to be coming from the area of the guidler bearing and hobbed bolt area. I was never really able to pinpoint it, but eventual replacement of every component involved seemed to solve it.  A couple of others have reported a similar clicking from that area.  I've even wondered if it was simply the sound of the hobbed bolt cutting or creasing into the filament.  

Another possibility is the extruder motor is skipping when attempting to do retractions.  Assuming your gcode includes retractions, they're not happening based on the rotation of the large gear in your video.  Looking through the gcode file in a viewer like gcode.ws will help you understand what the printer is being told to do, including whether or not retractions should be occurring when the nozzle makes a non-printing move from one location to another, as it likely would on infill. Colin's firmware baseline used to set the extruder maximum feedrate (the fourth term in configuration.h DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE) to 22mm/sec.   At least two of us determined the extruder motor can't be driven that fast, and that something in the range of 10mm/sec to 15mm/sec is more appropriate.  If the extruder motor is driven too fast on a retraction, it'll just twitch a bit without movement each time a retraction is attempted.  

The steps per unit for X, Y and Z are fixed by the hardware design and the microstepping selections for the stepper motor driver boards. You can work through an understanding of how the settings are determined through something like Prusa's on-line calculators. Changing the settings based on a fixed size test print will likely create a printer that can only print that dimension correctly, with all other dimensions off by some scaled error.  What was the LCD displaying as a print height on the last layer?  What does a viewer like gcode.ws show as the height of the last layer?  

Jumping into early prints with 100% infill is gutsy. If the extruder steps per mm aren't right, 100% infill won't turn out very well.  For example, if there's a bit of over-extrusion, the excess filament has no-where to go and you'll be left with ratty walls and a bad top of the print.  The sticky on calibration might be a place to start. Simply listed as another source, Triffid Hunter has a calibration guide that touches on extruder calibration and the countless other things involved in bringing up a printer from scratch.

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## Dustin B

The clicking sounds like it's coming from below the print bed.  I think it's something to do with the Y axis.  Only makes it during the rapid direction changes of infill.  My first 100mm extrusion test was 2mm short of 100mm so I adjusted the steps before printing the bars accordingly.  The perimeter walls look perfect including the top of them.  The infill however sticks up above the perimeter walls.  That would indicate over extrusion?  The code definitely had retractions in it as I saw them happen during some portions of the print.  It was making some pretty rapic retraction movements.  1/8 or so of a turn of the spur.

https://goo.gl/photos/SCAJ5Jfd5NFsUBd9A

Reading your calibration link.  I'll have to try the stepped cube and see if adjusting the multiplier makes the top layer not stick up.  Also measured my filament and it's 1.85mm and I had 1.75mm entered.

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## Dustin B

First PETG print.  Think I might need to slow things down a bit for a part this small  Got a lot of stringing and at the beginning the nozzle was dragging through the bottom layers a bit so I reduced the extrusion multiplier to 0.99 which seems to stop it.  Overall I think not bad for my 4th print ever.

https://goo.gl/photos/Scm7zzHA5s4H5DmK8
https://goo.gl/photos/2usDzJjBDDJFfTo76

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## Dustin B

Slowing things down and leveling the bed again (feeler gauge sure beats paper) resulted in a really nice 3rd attempt on the idler pulley.  Now have them installed on the x and y axis.  Printed a Benchy after that.  Thought it was over extruding and reduced the multiplier, then decided it wasn't and increased it back to what it was.  Should have never touched it as you can really tell when I put it back (this pick doesn't really show it as you can see it in the outside consistency, it's pitted on the lower portion and smooths right out on the upper).

IMG_20160229_142353410.jpg

The bed leveling manually with a feeler gauge would be trivial if I could one hand adjust the screws with just a wrench or a thumb wheel. Thoughts on modifying the heater board to accept an m3 carriage bolt?

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## beerdart

Looking good.

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## printbus

> ...The bed leveling manually with a feeler gauge would be trivial if I could one hand adjust the screws with just a wrench or a thumb wheel. Thoughts on modifying the heater board to accept an m3 carriage bolt?


The thumbwheel approach is great.  Rather than hassle with carriage bolts, I just used locknuts to attach M3 screws to the heater.  Note that when another user replicated the thumbwheel approach from my 8-inch i3v onto his larger printer, he found it was necessary to notch the rear brace across the back of the printer for the thumbwheels at the rear of the heat bed to clear it.

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## Dustin B

I knew I'd seen someone do a thumb screw that only took one hand.  I was looking and looking again trying to find it.  It was your thread I'd found a long time ago and forgotten about.  Yes the second lock nut is a much better solution.  I'll be printing some thumb screws and an LCD knob next and getting them installed.  Then a print cooling fan shroud.  Then I'll decide what I want to do with the x and y belt attachments.  Definitely going to use your X-Axis one but I'm thinking about trying my hand at designing my own Y solution.  Having used some 12mm counter sunk screws to mount the end stops I'm not really worried about printing new ones of those.  Although the new end stops he supplies are thicker, 12 mm won't let you get a nut on the other side, but 2.5mm threads on enough that I think I'm ok.  But since they do still twist when you tighten them down I might still end up printing some new ones.  At that point I think I'll have enough done that I'll be pretty happy with how it's working.  Oh but I will have to make some sort of improvement to the spool holder.

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## BLKKROW

The next time I have my printer disassembled I will be taking M3 PEM Nuts and pressing them into the aluminimum bed. This will make it possible for me to adjust the heat best with a hex key from above.

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## Dustin B

I thought about printing something to lock the bottom nut.  I like the thumb wheel on the bottom better though as then the hotend and stuff around it will never be in the way trying to fiddle a hex key into the head of the screw and I don't need any tools, besides a piece of paper or my feeler gauge.  Place the hotend over the part to be leveled, one hand on the feeler, other on the thumb wheel tweak till it just slides under.  Got one that printed ok last night and got it installed.  Works really well.

Wanting some feedback on what I should be changing to get my PETG prints better.  Thought I was doing better than I apparently am when printing the idler pulleys.  Am I under extruding, hotend temp too low or have I maybe leveled my bed with too much space to the nozzle?

https://goo.gl/photos/tBLiXoRCtCeVfUFN7
https://goo.gl/photos/6VU628gR7xVeJW4V7

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## beerdart

I run PETG @ 260 and 60 bed.

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## beerdart

This was just printed PushPlastic Black PETG. .3 layer 260c extruder E3D Itty Bitty Flexv2. 60c bed 40% infill 3 solid outer and inner shells 4 solid top and bottom layers no brim no support.

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## Dustin B

Here's a pick of what has to be cut away in an IV3 12 for the thumb screws.  This is the thinner of the two STL that printbus linked to.

IMG_20160303_075338965.jpg

260C and a 1.02 multiplier gave much better results with the PETG.  Still not perfect but much better.  I still get a bunch of loose strings in the nut capture area of the thumb screws though.  Would a cooling shroud help PETG like it helps PLA?

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## beerdart

PETG is stringy

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## Dustin B

Guess my terminology is a bit wrong, I do get some stringingness and i'm not really concerned about that, it picks off easily.  This is more full bits of an extrusion string that doesn't attach where it should and ends up in the middle instead of part of the print where it should be.  Happened on the LCD knob and these thumb wheels.  Only on inside circles with a bit of overhang towards the middle.

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## printbus

Welcome to 3D printing...

Getting prints turning out right with unsupported extrusion (like over nut traps or the exposed bottom of the knob) is a challenge all in itself.  The FDM type of 3D printing pretty much requires a new layer to be "squished" onto the previous layer.  Here, you can't do that and the printer is expected to "bridge" across the open gap.  I've found objects with holes in the center (like both of your parts, the Greg's Wade large gear, etc.) are especially troublesome because of how the slicer needs to route around the hole. 

You've got two primary options to deal with this bridging.  One is to have the slicer add a removable support structure under the final object.  The slicer leaves a bit of a gap between the support structure and the object.  The first layer(s) above the support might sag onto the support structure, but if set up properly the support structure should still be fairly easy to remove when the print is completed.  

The other approach is to come up with the right combination of several settings that helps with the bridging. I can't speak to PETG, but with PLA and ABS, good bridging typically leverages the fact that the filament strand shrinks a bit as it cools.  The right combination of hot end temp, print speed, extrusion multiplier, print cooling airflow, and probably a few things I'm forgetting to mention work together so that the unsupported extrusion shrinks just enough and just fast enough to lift the supported extrusion up into place and solidify before the hot end passes over it for the next layer.  

Either approach takes some experimenting to get right.  There are calibration models specifically for it.  Personally, I'd defer the issue for a while and build general experience with the printer and slicer you're going to use.

EDIT: There are dozens of bridging test objects, but the one I used is shown in here, along with a set of other helpful benchmark objects - MakerFarm benchmark results with Make: 2015 Shoot Out test models

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## printbus

Video of clough42 bridging across 200mm - http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post77074

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## Dustin B

Saw that video before I even started building my printer.  His cooling shroud is my next print.  Although I'm not sure which one to print.  Not sure if the short one will clear my v6 cooling fan or not.

I though the LCD nob should have done better and with the extrusion multiplier increased and the temp increased I think it might.  As it's not really a bridge, more of an overhang as the outer nobs inside wall slopes up to the top (MatterControl didn't think it needed any supports when I tried to add them.  The thumb screws on the other hand do have a bridge, and more problematic is the bridge is when the printer is printing in circles.  Printing in a circle in the middle of no where seems to be an impossible problem (that fact it does as well as it does is really amazing I guess).  I should see what MatterControl does when I add supports to that model.  If I was to redesign it I think I'd design it so one or two layers are solid and the last few on the top have the hole in them.  Then I could just drill it out.  Hopefully the slicer would then do straight lines across the bridge gap that could then support the circles above and you'd have the mark for drilling it out after.

I'm definitely in the beginning of the learning curve.  The biggest hurdle for me right now is to understand what settings to adjust to fix what problems.  Feedback cycle is a little long so I'm asking questions to get pointed in the right direction to hopefully cut down on iterations before I get things moving in the right direction.  I've been really appreciating the feedback I'm getting through this build.  It's helped me sort a few things out much faster than I would have otherwise.

The other thing of note for the LCD knob and the thumb screws is i had to scale them down a bit to get them to fit properly.  The thumbscrews to 0.95 and I forget what I scaled the LCD knob to, it was just under or just over 0.95.  Guess I should design some of my own with dimensions I know or check the STL files in Sketchup and see the actual dimensions and compare.  Guess i just figured I'd be good after printing the 200mm test bars and they came out to within 1/2mm.

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## printbus

Ah, I better understand the knob model now that you've described it.  Well, inside circles add a bit of a problem in that they tend to "pull" the extrusion towards the center of the opening as the nozzle moves around it.  On normal holes, this can make round holes come out undersized.  On the knob, that slight pulling might have meant the new layer wasn't gripping the offset layer below enough and it pulled free.  In other words, it's easier to build that overhang on a straight edge than it is on a circle.  Another thought is that there's just a bit too much of a gap on the first layer.  If there is, that can mean the 2nd layer can't print reliably and this can continue up through the model. Once one layer doesn't stick to the layer below, there's likely no way the layers above will ever recover. 

I know what you mean about part dimensioning.  The only design tool I've used is openSCAD. Anymore, I don't bother to print someone else's Thingiverse item unless they provide the openSCAD source for it, just in case I need to adjust something.  I also typically avoid models where there's no photograph of a finished print.  I found there's too many people out there who like to crank out designs, but they have no printer so the design is unproven.  On knobs, then you have the issue of 1/4-inch vs 6mm shaft diameters.  On push-on knobs, the two sizes aren't interchangeable.  

Adding the single solid layer across an unsupported area where there will be a center hole is certainly a way to go. The Greg's Wade extruder body and large gear models I started with in my overhaul of the designs did that. I learned why the solid layers were there when I took the solid layers out of my earlier revisions.  Even with support added in the slicer, the center hole just could not come out cleanly.  

Picking up 3D printing as a hobby has been fascinating, but if I knew before that I'd be having to learn so much about nit details I think I would have passed on it.

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## Dustin B

I'm not sure if I'm looking at this as a hobby or not.  I'll be playing with it to get it printing as well as I can and to learn how to use it well.  After that I wanted it as a tool.  After the fan shroud my next print will be a clip on bracket that will prevent the connection between the hose to the tap and the filter housing in my drinking water filter from coming a part.

http://www.rainfresh.ca/drinking_water_system_1.php

It's just a pressure fit with an o-ring between two brass parts (f'n stupid design).  They say it should stay together on it's own but the pressure in my house just blows it a part.  Right now I have it wrapped in wire which is a pain when it's time to take it a part to clean the filter.  So I plan to design a clip that's easy to slip on and off that holds it together.  After that I want to design and print a custom case that will hold my glasses and sunglasses inside the pistol pouch part of this bag. 

Then I've got all manner of things I want to print for my wood working tools (my fore ray into 3d printing all started with this).  And the wood working tools started for building subs and speakers for hometheater but have been used way more in the last 10 years for renovating my house. So hobby vs not sure what to call it, I'm just not sure anymore :P

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## Dustin B

IMG_20160305_154049118.jpg

Fan shroud printed quite well.  Once I figured out I could remove one of the hotend mounting screws and pivot the fan to the back and then reinstall it I was able to mount the shroud without any extensions.  This is the longer of clough42s two shrouds.  I'll find out how it works later tonight or tomorrow.

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## Dustin B

And I just realized as is the shroud will hit the build plated when Z is zero'd.  Guess I'm going to be printing the shorter shroud or actually using the model I spent to much time in SketchUp fixing the mesh issues from importing the stl to make a longer bracket.

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## Dustin B

Um, so ya, put the bracket on the right way and it clears the print bed :P

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## Chachin

Nice work Dustin  :Smile: . Which fan did you pick to cool your print?

Chachin..

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## Dustin B

I'm just using the extra 40mm fan Colin includes with the kit for now. I'll eventually get another one or make something new that will use a blower style fan.

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## Dustin B

IMG_20160307_092957120.jpg

Working with partial circles of different sizes in SketchUp is a pain in the ass.  Took me way longer than it should have to get working models.  I think I've learned what not to do now though and should not have as many issues in the future.  Add to that I made a couple rookie errors with this design (the bracket to hold the water filter together).  I made the middle too thin and printed it in the wrong orientation for where I needed the strength in the part.  I was thinking the flex needed for it to snap on should be the stronger axis but after it broke on the first install and the more I think about it's purpose I should lay the part flat on it's back after I rework it a bit and make the middle thicker.

On the upside I was really impressed with how cleanly the support material MatterControl generated came off the part though.  Didn't come off that easily (mostly because I don't have the right tools for working inside smaller parts yet), but it did come off nicely.

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## Dustin B

IMG_20160311_123110319.jpgIMG_20160310_213412908.jpgIMG_20160310_213500621.jpg

Well after 4 tries I finally have a finished part that works.  First one is the one that was 2x the size it should have been because I forgot I measured diameter but was entering radius in Sketchup.  Second is the first in the 2nd picture, I made it slightly too small and printed it in the wrong orientation so it broke.  Middle one I used the profile from the first and managed to screw up the radius of the circle I drew again.  Attached a 20.1mm circle to the point that was supposed to be 17.3mm so it was too big.  Next one I got right and you can see it fitting on.  I might make it wrap around a little more and slightly smaller so it snaps on a bit more positively, but that one won't fall off on it's own so I'll likely leave it alone for now.  Now it's time to design the case for my glasses.

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## Dustin B

Before I get too far in printing things I guess I should print a spare Gregg's extruder.  I'm unfamiliar with OpenSCAD, looking like I'm going to have to learn a bit about it through with how prevalent it seems to be in parts for 3d printers.  Can I use some of the STL files from your version of it printbus as is with my E3D V6, or will I need to recompile it with some values changed?

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## printbus

Using the e3dv6, you should be able to use the stl files as-is.

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## Dustin B

So decided to try and fine tune my retraction and extrusion multiplier a bit more before I print the spare extruder.  Tried to use this file.

http://shop.felixprinters.com/downlo...oad=_40x10.STL

Displays fine in the 3d view of MatterControl, but when I slice it all I can manage to get is the 2 perimeter loops that make sure you have a good flow before you start the object and then part of the top curve (60 layers though).  Nothing else shows up.  I tried grabbing a bunch of other single wall or 0.5mm cubes from thingiverse and they're even worse.  Nothing shows up in the slice view at all and it only shows 2 layers.

Any thoughts on what I'm missing?

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## Dustin B

Solved my issue.  Apparently mattercontrol won't do anything the same size or smaller than the nozzle diameter.  Model was 0.4mm walls, changed the nozzle diameter to 0.39 and it slices fine.  So I made my own quick model with 0.5mm walls which worked fine from the perspective of getting it to print.

However I'm at a bit of a loss again as the gcode says my extrusion width is 0.4mm but the resulting object is measuring 0.8-0.85mm.  I'd just re-done the e-steps test and verified my values before this print so I can't see it being out that far.

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## Dustin B

Solved my issue.  Apparently mattercontrol won't do anything the same size or smaller than the nozzle diameter.  Model was 0.4mm walls, changed the nozzle diameter to 0.39 and it slices fine.  So I made my own quick model with 0.5mm walls which worked fine from the perspective of getting it to print.

However I'm at a bit of a loss again as the gcode says my extrusion width is 0.4mm but the resulting object is measuring 0.8-0.85mm.  I'd just re-done the e-steps test and verified my values before this print so I can't see it being out that far.

Put a multiplier of 0.48 in and end result was a 0.45-0.5mm wall thickness.

So confused.

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## Dustin B

Same results with PETG, 0.8mm.

Also ran the e-steps calibration with PETG.  First 100mm was under by 2.5mm.  Adjusted on the LCD and ran again then I was over by 3.5mm.  So I put it back to the original value before running the calibration print.

When I reran the e-steps on PLA it was spot on.  Am I making a mistake expecting pretty good consistency on the 100mm extrusion, or does that indicate something might be slipping?

The other thing I found a bit odd was that no matter what layer height I set the extrusion width stayed at 0.4mm in the gcode.  Is that a quirk of MatterSlicer?  Does slic3r let you set the width and then it controls the extrusion rate to get it?

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## Dustin B

Found this which is quite interesting and answering a lot of my questions about layer height vs extrusion width with a given nozzle diameter.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...as/2FG_gUxa_fE

Looks like MatterControl was asked to allow setting the extrusion width, but hasn't done so and leaves it matching the nozzle diameter.  So you could cheat by lying about your nozzle diameter to get close to the same effect as being allowed to specify the extrusion width.

The bigger issue I still have though is why I'm getting single wall prints that are double my nozzle diameter.  Wonder if I just didn't notice it actually did an inner and an outer wall.

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## Dustin B

Response from MatterHackers:




> Walls less than or equal to nozzle diameter: Not printed
> Walls between 1 and 2 times the nozzle diameter: Overextruded
> Walls greater than 2 times the nozzle diameter: Correct width
> 
> MatterSlice's handling of thin walls is something we definitely want to improve.


I'm going to try making a model that has 1.2mm wide walls for my 0.4mm nozzle and see how this calibration technique works with that.

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## Dustin B

Learnt the hard way couple days ago that you need to pay attention to where you run the USB cable from the Rumba.  Too close to a motor wire and you'll get some very unhappy and frustrating results until you get it routed away from the motor wires.

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