# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > FlashForge Forum >  Glass build platform is the way to go!

## roykirk

I've finally had to make the first change to my FF.  The stock aluminum build platform was horribly warped (quite disappointed about that after only a few months ownership) and I was starting to have trouble getting things to print correctly.  I decided to buy the glass build platform that FF sells on their U.S. website.  I couldn't be happier.  Dead level from corner to corner and things are printing beautifully again.  See photo below.  The one thing to note is that I saw a photo somewhere else of someone using this glass plate clamped directly on top of the stock aluminum build plate.  I have no idea how they managed that because I tried it and it was impossible because the platform became so thick that I couldn't screw down the leveling nuts far enough to clear the nozzle.  Only after I removed the metal plate could I get the platform to clear the nozzle.  While I've heard it can be done, I'm not printing directly on the glass, instead continuing to use blue painters tape.  My main reason being that sometimes my models really stick hard to the platform and I have to use a putty knife to "pop" them off.  I didn't want to scratch the bejeesus out of the glass plate right off the bat.  Perhaps I'll give it a try without tape at some point.  


photo 1.jpg

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## 34Ford

I am new at this but I saw where if you put the glass on top of the original plate you will need to print or make a spacer so that the z stop switch is hit sooner.

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## Peet@FFUSA

Hi Roy,

Dennis is correct. You'd need to print a z-axis offset (spacer) that you place on the z-axis bar behind the build platform. 

Don't remove the stock aluminum plate when you want to use the glass plate. Instead, place the glass plate on top of the aluminum plate and simply secure it by using either paper clips (like in the photo you attached) or using tape on all four corners.

What the Z-axis spacer would do is hit the Z-axis sensors, which will stop the plate from rising further. This would provide enough clearance so the glass plate will not hit the nozzle.

Hope this helps!

Peter

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## Roxy

> While I've heard it can be done, I'm not printing directly on the glass, instead continuing to use blue painters tape.  My main reason being that sometimes my models really stick hard to the platform and I have to use a putty knife to "pop" them off.  I didn't want to scratch the bejeesus out of the glass plate right off the bat.  Perhaps I'll give it a try without tape at some point.


I think you are worrying too much about the glass.  It doesn't scratch that easily and it is very cheap to replace (at least if you use thin picture frame glass).   What I do is wedge a single edged razor blade under a corner of the print.  And then I wedge a small flat bladed screw driver under the razor blade as close as possible to the print.   Usually, with a little bit of a twist to the screw driver, it pops off the glass.

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## crowbar

Glass is nice. I buy cheap panels at home depot for under $2. I use hair spray on the glass before printing. Sometimes, I have to use a clamp or pliers to remove the object though.

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## Roxy

> Glass is nice. I buy cheap panels at home depot for under $2. I use hair spray on the glass before printing. Sometimes, I have to use a clamp or pliers to remove the object though.


If you have detachable glass...  You might want to try putting your plate in the freezer if the print is sticking too well!   I've done that a few times when I couldn't get a print free.

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## roykirk

Thanks for the advice.  I hadn't heard about the spacer and that sounds like it might work better.  I might give printing directly on the glass a try.  I love blue tape in that when I use it with PLA on a slightly heated bed, my prints stick like glue.  The bad part about that is that I usually end up having to completely replace blue tape with every single print because it rips up with the model.  If I can get my PLA prints to stick just as well to the glass without being just as difficult to get off with blue tape, it would definitely be the way to go for me.

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## crowbar

My freezers are already filled to the brim with Costco stuff. I guess one might be able to lay the glass on some ice packs to remove?

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## Geoff

> Thanks for the advice.  I hadn't heard about the spacer and that sounds like it might work better.  I might give printing directly on the glass a try.  I love blue tape in that when I use it with PLA on a slightly heated bed, my prints stick like glue.  The bad part about that is that I usually end up having to completely replace blue tape with every single print because it rips up with the model.  If I can get my PLA prints to stick just as well to the glass without being just as difficult to get off with blue tape, it would definitely be the way to go for me.


This is why I stick with kapton, I only replace it every few months. I will have to try the glass I think, I have some new flashy flexible stuff coming I want to try and apparently glass works much better for it.

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## lycan

Gday,

I have been using the sheeting that came with my T-Shirt printing press with great success, it is very strong and can withstand temperatures above 200 Celcius. merely cut the sheet to size and tape the edges down.

Just a thought for you all

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## jdg56

I just received the Flashforge glass bed that I intend to use with my PowerSpec printer. I probably will look for tempered glass locally in the future to save some money, but I needed some kapton tape anyway...  :Smile: 

The PowerSpec has a bit of a different bed carriage than the Flashforge, as far as I can tell. It has a flat metal plate on a frame underneath, that cannot be seen from the outside. As such, the little shim that people have been using to reset the Z-axis won't work with the PowerSpec. I'm working on a larger shim that will use the side-stabilizers on the Z-axis as end-points and then just run across the back of the metal plate to trigger the limit switch. I"m also going to play with the thickness, as the Z-axis springs/screws are at their tightest just to level the bed, and I'd like to have a bit more leeway.

The biggest thing I'm worried about is how to attach the glass to the existing bed structure. I'm thinking of using medium-sized binder clips, but the glass is 7mm thick and the aluminum plate is 6+mm, and the heater comes right out to the edge of the aluminum plate. I am worried about the pressure one of the mid-sized clips will exert on the structure. I think crushing the heater would not be a good thing.

Has anyone done the binder clip attachment for their glass bed on a Creator X? How did it work? Are there any other alternatives? (I'd like the glass to be removable for kapton replacement, cleaning, and severely stuck work product, so I don't want to nail it in place.  :Smile:  )

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## jfkansas

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:390209    This is a part I designed to lower the zaxis switch. It is 5.5mm lower which is good for 1/4" glass (6.35mm), and 3/16" glass (4.7mm).  Actually on mine I was able to use a longer bolt on on the back of the z axis threaded insert and raise it up with a spacer about 5.5mm thick. The switch lever hits this bolt so raising it works also. 

You really don't need Kapton on glass. If you use PLA, your best bet is to line the glass with Blue painters tape. ABS on glass is best with melted ABS in Acetone making a slurry. 

Binder clips work fine but the ones I have barely fit on the 1/4" glass. They wont crush the heater plate. 




> I just received the Flashforge glass bed that I intend to use with my PowerSpec printer. I probably will look for tempered glass locally in the future to save some money, but I needed some kapton tape anyway... 
> 
> The PowerSpec has a bit of a different bed carriage than the Flashforge, as far as I can tell. It has a flat metal plate on a frame underneath, that cannot be seen from the outside. As such, the little shim that people have been using to reset the Z-axis won't work with the PowerSpec. I'm working on a larger shim that will use the side-stabilizers on the Z-axis as end-points and then just run across the back of the metal plate to trigger the limit switch. I"m also going to play with the thickness, as the Z-axis springs/screws are at their tightest just to level the bed, and I'd like to have a bit more leeway.
> 
> The biggest thing I'm worried about is how to attach the glass to the existing bed structure. I'm thinking of using medium-sized binder clips, but the glass is 7mm thick and the aluminum plate is 6+mm, and the heater comes right out to the edge of the aluminum plate. I am worried about the pressure one of the mid-sized clips will exert on the structure. I think crushing the heater would not be a good thing.
> 
> Has anyone done the binder clip attachment for their glass bed on a Creator X? How did it work? Are there any other alternatives? (I'd like the glass to be removable for kapton replacement, cleaning, and severely stuck work product, so I don't want to nail it in place.  )

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## curious aardvark

the picture frame glass from pound/buck stores is 2mm thick and plenty strong enough. easiest way is to buy a4 picture frames and cut the glass down to size. 
As far as the z switch thing goes. An extra 2mm doesn't effect the limit switch as it's calibrated slightly below it anyway. Or I'm thinking of the wrong thing. 
And little corner brackets should work so the glass just sits in the bracket for easy removal. The problem with clips is that the print head clips them if you print something big.

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## 3dfilemarket

I use cheap ikea 6inch sqaure mirrors with bulldog clips to secure to the bed. Prints are perfect and they stick everytime. You can get a pack of 6 mirrors for about $8. Still on my first mirror after 3 months.

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## Geoff

> I use cheap ikea 6inch sqaure mirrors with bulldog clips to secure to the bed. Prints are perfect and they stick everytime. You can get a pack of 6 mirrors for about $8. Still on my first mirror after 3 months.


On what machine?

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## palawanisland

hi!
iam using 3.2mm glass now. did you guys increase temperature, coz the glass will eat some of the heat? by how much?
my temp is already 120. using abs. some parts of object still lift. specially corners.
already tried raft with 2 layers 6mm, it still lift. latest print 2 corner lift almost 4.5-5mm. 2 corner 0.5-1mm

will try the acetone slurry next, but any suggestions will be appreciated.

print-lift01.jpg

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## Geoff

> hi!
> iam using 3.2mm glass now. did you guys increase temperature, coz the glass will eat some of the heat? by how much?
> my temp is already 120. using abs. some parts of object still lift. specially corners.
> already tried raft with 2 layers 6mm, it still lift. latest print 2 corner lift almost 4.5-5mm. 2 corner 0.5-1mm
> 
> will try the acetone slurry next, but any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> print-lift01.jpg


Sometimes less is better, how low have you gone on the heatbed trying to print ABS? it can curl also and lift if it is too hot, this generally happens after a several layers, where if it is too cold, you generally dont get past a layer or 2.

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## curious aardvark

> the picture frame glass from pound/buck stores is 2mm thick.


actually I just measured it with the calipers. It's only 1.25 mm. Better heat transfer from the bed. And it's still pretty strong.
Just modelled a holder that will hold 7 sheets - assuming it prints ! 
But as it's a solid base I can use raft and that usually works okay

Now I just need to come up with a better way to attach the glass than bulldog clips as the heads always seem to hit the clips - no matter where I put them. 

Also bought some vinyl based hairspray and a couple more sheets of glass. 

I will try everything !

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## basfud

I did mod my flashforge to glass once, used silicone as binder, but the heat transfer was terrible. 

I think I prefer the kapton+alu, though I did work with glass on a reprap and it was pretty cool.

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## jdg56

Hi all,

Earlier in this discussion, we were talking about shims to compensate for glass thickness as regards the z-axis limit switch.

I tinkered around a little bit in openscad, since I wanted to learn a bit about it anyway, and developed an interchangeable, parameterized shim that has been working pretty well for me.

I have both 1/8" and 1/4" glass beds, so being able to swap out the shim is a useful feature for me.

I just posted the shim build files on thingiverse:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:440022

If anyone finds this a useful tool, that will make me happy.

Cheers,

John

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## 3DPBuser

Do any of the new FF already come with removeable glass?

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## curious aardvark

Actually I've just added a 3mm aluminium plate (scrap from clients who are aluminium fabricators) instead of the 1.25 mm glass I was using. 

The glass was bending, the aluminium does not :-) 

Much much better - I've now got perfectly flat printbed. 
Guess I could have bought expensive thicker flat glass. But I'm happier with something that won't break if dropped :-) (already killed 2 glass beds)

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## roykirk

It's always interesting to see how different all our experiences are.  I'll never be able to go away from a glass bed after using one.  FF sells glass platforms on their US store for under $20 and those buggers are 12 mm thick.  There's no bending or warping something like that.   :Big Grin:    I think you say you haven't been able to get away from rafts?  I've never really had to use them, but then again I can't print on metal or Kapton tape either, no matter what I try.  Nor can I print directly on glass, regardless of temperature, first layer, or leveling tweaks.  Blue tape and glass with a heated bed at 50c (which everyone says shouldn't be necessary) is the only thing I can get to work time after time.

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## Geoff

It seems everyone machines behave very differently considering the hardware is the same.. you have to wonder how much is geologically based or user lol..  :Smile:

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## curious aardvark

well my issues were definitely: 'not-level' bed based. 

Printed out 4 things without raft yesterday, at reasonable speed too  ! 
Might not sound much to you lot, but it's pretty amazing to me :-)

It didn't like the the vacuum cleaner adaptor - but I could see that was purely down to the way makerware slices cylinders. Ie: It doesn't go round in a full circle, but goes round to one point, then reverses direction to the same point then reverses again. It's why you get a seam. But because of this the first layer didn't go down properly, it pulled the edges of the first circle up on the reverse and just left a permament gap. 

But the electric carpet sweeper handle worked perfectly ! (even the sample prints). 

So I suspect it doesn't actually matter what material your bed is made of - as long as it's 100% flat and level. 
And as far as I can see - no flashforge comes with  a perfectly level bed. (or indeed any other make - not level beds seem to be at the crux of a lot of people's problems with 3d printers)

The thick glass bed sounds good. But I can get aluminium beds for free - no contest. Plus just an extra 3mm means I don't have to piss about with shims for the zaxis.

I'm tempted to put a layer of kapton on the reverse side of the plate. To give me bluetape one side and kapton the other so i can just flip the plate to change :-) 
The blue tape sticks really well now I can calibrate the machine properly. 
So tempted to give geoffs favourite kaptoon a go. I've got a huge bloody roll of the stuff - so might as well try it out :-)

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## Procheck

> I've finally had to make the first change to my FF.  The stock aluminum build platform was horribly warped (quite disappointed about that after only a few months ownership) and I was starting to have trouble getting things to print correctly.  I decided to buy the glass build platform that FF sells on their U.S. website.  I couldn't be happier.  Dead level from corner to corner and things are printing beautifully again.  See photo below.  The one thing to note is that I saw a photo somewhere else of someone using this glass plate clamped directly on top of the stock aluminum build plate.  I have no idea how they managed that because I tried it and it was impossible because the platform became so thick that I couldn't screw down the leveling nuts far enough to clear the nozzle.  Only after I removed the metal plate could I get the platform to clear the nozzle.  While I've heard it can be done, I'm not printing directly on the glass, instead continuing to use blue painters tape.  My main reason being that sometimes my models really stick hard to the platform and I have to use a putty knife to "pop" them off.  I didn't want to scratch the bejeesus out of the glass plate right off the bat.  Perhaps I'll give it a try without tape at some point.  
> 
> 
> Attachment 1745


You can print a spacer that sits at the rear of the build plate support that stops the z axis to enable you to use the glass bed on top of the stock bed.  There are a few on Thingiverse to choose from. Just search flashforge glass bed shim and you should find one that you like. Note:I had to adjust the height of the shim to just higher (6.65mm) than my glass bed that came in at 6.55mm thick that gave me some fail safe room that i could then use the adjustment screws to level out. I happened to find some transfer tape that was the right  thickness in my junk bin lol it had a added benefit of holding the shim in place as well. but you could design your own if needed. Good reason to never discard scraps for other products they might just come in handy  :Smile:  I hope this helps

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## memi205

This is my glass bed installation for my flashforge dreamer.
I needed :
- 1/4" thermal Glass from Flashforge 6"x9"x1/4"
- Some kapton tape 5mil self-adhesive (cut 4 pieces 1/2" x 6")
- Some blue paint tape
- 6.5mm flashforge shim for Z axis (Search thingverse site... thing:427689 )

See my pictures for the installation.

Everything must be very clean before installing the glass bed... use a little bit of aceton to clean.

It prints great with UHU glue stick. Easy to apply, easy to wash.

No binder clips needed... No danger for extruders or the 3D printer.
Hope this helps.
Michel
IMG_2057.jpgIMG_2058.jpgIMG_2055.jpgIMG_2053.jpgIMG_2056.jpg

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## 3DPBuser

This would not come off, so as to be able to put in freezer, correct?

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## memi205

Exact.
It's an aluminium plate + kapton replacement...
I do not want my extruders hits a binder clip. And I wanted something well done and clean.
With UHU glue stick, everything I print pops up easily.

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## curious aardvark

very clever ! 

Never occured to me to just tape the bugger on !

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## bluesmurf

question do you place hair spray on glass first then level? thanks

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## Stigern

I see some use sticky tape between the alu and glass plate, seems like a easier way to go instead of those "clamps" ?

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## memi205

For bluesmurf : 
I level on a clean glass only.

For Stigern:
The heat transfer between the alu and the glass seem to be not very good with a sticky tape.
That's why I choose using Kapton tape on corners instead of sticky tape.

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## Stigern

But those who use clamps to hold the glass, won't you loose some build area doing it that way?

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## memi205

Using Kapton tape (5 mil) on the corners (and blue tape under the bed), I do not really loose built area. 
Have you seen my pictures on this thread? 
I think it's safer for extruders than with binder clips.
It's installed in this way for a while and it's solid, clean, the heat transfer is very good and works very well.

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## jdg56

I use binder clips. If you look at how your parts are laid out, you'll never really get to the absolute edge of the build plate. With the dual extruder, you need to look where right-most parts are, and put the binder clip on a section of the right side that's not where the extruder is going to go. Same on the left side.
I generally run a binder clip on the right just back from where makerware will lay down its 'cleaner' strip across the front of the bed, and put a binder clip on the back of the bed all the way on the left side. Other than making heart gears, I haven't had too much trouble. I have schooled myself to look at the layout of parts and just move the clips if there's possibility they will be hit by the extruder(s).

It turns out you don't really need much 'traction' to hold the glass bed in place. If you are having glass bed movement problems, it's most likely due to curling catching the edge of the extruder, not the binder clips.

Cheers,

John

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## indy3der

I've recently switched to the 1/4" Borosilicate glass from McMaster (part 8476K74) and I wanted to get others input on changes I should make to my setup.  Keep in mind, I'm only talking about printing with ABS.

Before, I was getting pretty good prints (in the middle of the bed), but the 0.070" picture frame glass was still bending or was not flat to begin with.
Before:
0.070" picture frame glass with kapton
glass still bowed, only can get good prints in the middle of the bed (biggest problem)
cleaned with alcohol prior to printing
ABS 230 degC extruders, Bed setting 105 degC

After:
1/4" Borosilicate glass from McMaster (part 8476K74) with kapton tape
EXTREMELY FLAT (within what I think I can measure using my feeler gauges)
same prep as above
I didn't try lowering bed temp, since I figured the thicker glass required more heat
Tried 110 degC and the print still separated

My part has a 45 degree overhang on the bottom, which I've noticed in printing these parts has a tendency to curl up at the edges and I can't help but think that due to that, the extruders are bumping the edge and the mechanical advantage is popping the print off.  

At a bed temp of 105 degC, the print got to 5-6 layers and popped off.  At 100 degC, it got to double the height before popping off.

Should I go hotter even on the bed? (I don't know what the practical limits are on this printer)
ABS slurry?
Raft or support?  (I really don't want to do more work on parts after printing)

Thanks in advance for advice!

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## curious aardvark

use pla. 
Abs will always warp. I found that blue tape worked better than abs slurry but I never really got decent abs prints wihtout using a raft. 

Pla - that's a whole different story. Doesn't shrink - so practically no warping and what I;ve had so far on overhangs has been more or less fixed by the way simplify3d slices and uses infill. 

Because I've got the duct fan adaptor on mine the whole print head is flat about 3mm above the printhead so ANY warping or curling causes the duct adaptor to hit the plastic. 
It also means I can't use bulldog clips on the plate. But a bit of kapton on each corner does a better job anyway :-) 

It's all about ending up witha system that works for you. 

But my best advice as someone who used abs exclusively for about 4 months is switch to a good pla. Solves almost all the issue I had with abs. And simplify3d looks like solving the rest :-)

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## indy3der

> use pla. 
> Abs will always warp. I found that blue tape worked better than abs slurry but I never really got decent abs prints wihtout using a raft. 
> 
> Pla - that's a whole different story. Doesn't shrink - so practically no warping and what I;ve had so far on overhangs has been more or less fixed by the way simplify3d slices and uses infill. 
> 
> Because I've got the duct fan adaptor on mine the whole print head is flat about 3mm above the printhead so ANY warping or curling causes the duct adaptor to hit the plastic. 
> It also means I can't use bulldog clips on the plate. But a bit of kapton on each corner does a better job anyway :-) 
> 
> It's all about ending up witha system that works for you. 
> ...


I will mess with PLA at some point (I actually just bought my first spool), but I'm making functional parts and I've chosen ABS for the mechanical properties.  I'm looking for advice with ABS for now.

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## Geoff

> use pla. 
> Abs will always warp. I found that blue tape worked better than abs slurry but I never really got decent abs prints wihtout using a raft. 
> 
> Pla - that's a whole different story. Doesn't shrink - so practically no warping and what I;ve had so far on overhangs has been more or less fixed by the way simplify3d slices and uses infill. 
> 
> Because I've got the duct fan adaptor on mine the whole print head is flat about 3mm above the printhead so ANY warping or curling causes the duct adaptor to hit the plastic. 
> It also means I can't use bulldog clips on the plate. But a bit of kapton on each corner does a better job anyway :-) 
> 
> It's all about ending up witha system that works for you. 
> ...


Sorry man, this isn't good advice.

ABS will not always warp, maybe in your experience it has but sorry, I used it for 2 years before I switched to mainly PLA and while yes, you can get warpage there are many resolutions for that. I switched because my Kossel didnt have a heated plate when I built it - that is the only reason I made the switch to PLA, so I could have both machines printing the same parts at the same time. I now have a heated bed on my kossel, so unless it's a part that needs to be a certain colour that I only have in PLA, guess what? I print in ABS.

-You switched to PLA after you tore your hair out with ABS and got fed up, big big difference, go back through your posts, it doesn't seem like you ever had success printing in ABS. I've had 1500+ hours success printing in it. Yes, it's easier to work with PLA but it's nowhere near as rigid as ABS or as long lasting.

*PLA has a shelf life. * Literally. Print a part in PLA and one in ABS and put both on your shelf and watch them over 6 months . And I mean a proper part, like a Kossel frame, something sizable.  PLA will warp, split, crack and generally suck over time, this is a fact of life you will see eventually.  I am sorry mate, but I can't idly sit back and let you blast something and say it's no good when that's not really the case and you gave up on it.

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## 3DPBuser

Might try PET+ in order to get a usable part with very little warp.

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## Stigern

This part fits the Creator very good: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:328505

But I can't see that it will fit my Pro. How or what part do people use on their creator pro when adding 0.25" glass?

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