# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > Peachy Printer Forum >  Things that still suck about the V1 printer - according to the founder

## rylangrayston

We have posted alot of good news about the peachy printer lately, but its my job to keep thinking about what still needs improvement. 
So I thought I would do a post that keeps it real. 

Here are a list of known problems, temporary hacks for them, and what we plan to do in the long term to fix them.

1. Sometimes we still get holes in our prints.
hacker solutions           - slow your print down, help us figure out why this happens. 
long term solution        - start doing r and d to the resin.

2. coil wires are finicky and can  break off
hacker solution            - solder your coil connections, when coil wires break unravel the wire and make a new connection, buy a new coil They will be cheap.
Long term solution       - we want to put coils on there own pcb daughter boards, so they just plug in with a ribbon cable  

3. some parts are very small and hard to assemble
Hacker solution           - tweezers + patients goes a long way,  oh and we are sending some extra parts in case they fly out of your tweezers
Long term solution      - pre assemble some parts that are tricky for people to build. 

4. salt water and hoses are messy
Note: we have done alot to improve this already, its alot better than our beta units, but could still be better. 
Hacker solution          - Put a towel down on your work bench and do all your printing on that towel. 
long term solution      - developing a sealed dripper that is very easy to take apart and clean might help, so would a pump. 

5. Calibration features are needed for accurate prints
hacker solution           - .... umm... dont print things that require accuracy
long term solution      - build the features and do a software update. 


Im sure our early adopters types will navigate these problems just fine, but it would be even better if they didn't have to.

----------


## harpo99999

I could not connect the coils in my beta as I could not tell IF I had managed to strip the micro fine wire enough to actually make contact even after wiping the wire with a hot soldering iron, so for me #2 is VITAL to fix(and I was even using a magnifing headset that magnifies 25 times)

----------


## Aztecphoenix

What about laser cutting a backing for the coil with two legs that you can connect the wires to and wrap the coil leads around to make a more secure connection

----------


## rylangrayston

> I could not connect the coils in my beta as I could not tell IF I had managed to strip the micro fine wire enough to actually make contact even after wiping the wire with a hot soldering iron, so for me #2 is VITAL to fix(and I was even using a magnifing headset that magnifies 25 times)


Thanks harpo99999 thats the kind of feed back we need, 
do you remember if we sent you 400 or 600 grit sand paper for sanding the wire?
our newest coils have a pre tined tip to make soldering easier also.

----------


## 3dspider

When dealing with enamel coated wire, I've always found it is easiest to just burn the enamel off the end with a lighter... then gently sand the burned area to expose bare copper. Of course if the wire is too fine, you might melt it by accident.

----------


## harpo99999

> Thanks harpo99999 thats the kind of feed back we need, 
> do you remember if we sent you 400 or 600 grit sand paper for sanding the wire?
> our newest coils have a pre tined tip to make soldering easier also.


from vague memory I think it was 400 grit, bit it might have been even finer (and the piece was not large enough to have the markings on the back), and I was a beta 2 level if that helps to track it down, and I had tried the soldering iron after using the sand paper, but the only conductivity reading I could get was at approximatly my body resistance so assumed no contact

----------


## harpo99999

> When dealing with enamel coated wire, I've always found it is easiest to just burn the enamel off the end with a lighter... then gently sand the burned area to expose bare copper. Of course if the wire is too fine, you might melt it by accident.


and given the wire is the thinnest I have ever worked with ( and makes the wire in coil microphones look large in comparison), the flame method was eliminated, and was even concerned about the heat gain from the 20w soldering iron that I use for board repair

----------


## curious aardvark

Oooh - you have to solder stuff ? 

Ah right - then that's me out till the non-solder kits come out :-)

----------


## rylangrayston

I have made many many printers work with the sanding and twisting method. You dont need to solder but solder is better. 
I think ill post a video of how to do it without solder, it is tricky.
I will also put more priority on coils that just plug in via a ribbon cable.

----------


## MagicDan

Rylan,

Thank you for the post!  

I do not see these as anything too difficult to deal with, especially with a $100 printer.  A resin one at that!  Keep up the good work and thanks for all your insight and helpful information that you give.

I think what you have done is amazing, and I can't wait to see what comes out down the road.

----------


## Slatye

I definitely can't see these being a big problem for such a cheap printer, as MagicDan said. The normal problem for other cheap (ie three times the cost of the Peachy) printers is along the lines of "doesn't actually print" - in comparison, these issues are trivial.

For (2), would it be practical to solder the coil wires to some much thicker (more robust) wire? Even 28AWG should be fine, and that's big enough to use with standard crimp connectors. Then, to prevent the thicker wire putting stress on the super-fine coil wire, 3D print a "coil holder" that keeps it all together.

Edit: hmm, suppose you soldered the thicker wires to the coil, then put maybe 1mm of resin in a small container, placed the coil + wires flat in the container (ie partially immersed in the resin), and left it out in the sun? Ideally, that should result in the really delicate wires and the joint to the thicker wires being firmly embedded in cured resin, but with the coil right at the surface of the resin. This has the advantage that you don't need a working Peachy printer to do it.

----------


## 3dspider

hmm.. if you cant flame the wire, there's always the molten caustic soda method, but thats pretty dangerous - take some sodium hydroxide (powder) and mix it 4:1 with some non-iodized table salt, then melt it with a torch, then insert the wire you want stripped into the molten soda mixture for 1-5 seconds, then quench in water. 

If you have a laser cutter, you could experiment with the strength needed to just burn off the insulation without melting the wire. - There are special machines that do this, and can supposedly strip higher than 50 gauge wire without damaging the wire.

----------


## User_Defined

It is unfortunate you could not go with the PCB coil method I suggested, it would make for much more secure interconnections (and more consistent coil inductances).

As for the remaining issues, I think that the most significant bug is that the final prints are not accurate, and it pretty much throws anything I would use the printer for out the window. 

I'm sure that you guys can find a better calibration method, and as a backer, I hope that you prioritize this as soon as possible. 

-UD

----------


## rylangrayston

> It is unfortunate you could not go with the PCB coil method I suggested, it would make for much more secure interconnections (and more consistent coil inductances).
> 
> As for the remaining issues, I think that the most significant bug is that the final prints are not accurate, and it pretty much throws anything I would use the printer for out the window. 
> 
> I'm sure that you guys can find a better calibration method, and as a backer, I hope that you prioritize this as soon as possible. 
> 
> -UD


Ya that PCB coil idea was really great, I dont think we can get the power ( turns )  we need out of it tho. Our coils have many hundreds of turns in them 
and they are rather small. Ether way fundamentally is a perfect idea. I want to use it somewhere. And I can see a good place for it in peachy 2.0 galvo system  :Smile:  
As for calibration, it is coming soon, after we implement variable laser power, and acceleration, Calibration is next on the list.
One step we have taken toward better calibration is we have come up with a better UI for entering the calibration points. 
You can now move the laser beam around with your mouse and click on various places on grid paper to set calibration points. Its much faster than our previous  method and I can now imagine it being reasonable to enter in 100 plus calibration points. 

PS UserDefined
quite some time ago you asked a REALLY good question, something that is constantly on my mind and still is. 
Why is the peachy printer able to print perfectly smooth columns but dose not achieve the same smoothness on other prints?
This has botherd me ever since I saw that first green column print. 
I still don't have a definitive answer for that, I have tested and disproved many theory's so far, and I still have more theory's to test. 
When I find out why I will make a thread on this.  My apology's for not answering you with a simple,  I dont know. I remember composing a rather in depth 
answer in my head including all my theory's at the time, but Im sure I never went back and actually typed out a reply to your question.

----------


## User_Defined

> Ya that PCB coil idea was really great, I dont think we can get the power ( turns )  we need out of it tho. Our coils have many hundreds of turns in them 
> and they are rather small. Ether way fundamentally is a perfect idea. I want to use it somewhere. And I can see a good place for it in peachy 2.0 galvo system  
> As for calibration, it is coming soon, after we implement variable laser power, and acceleration, Calibration is next on the list.
> One step we have taken toward better calibration is we have come up with a better UI for entering the calibration points. 
> You can now move the laser beam around with your mouse and click on various places on grid paper to set calibration points. Its much faster than our previous  method and I can now imagine it being reasonable to enter in 100 plus calibration points. 
> 
> PS UserDefined
> quite some time ago you asked a REALLY good question, something that is constantly on my mind and still is. 
> Why is the peachy printer able to print perfectly smooth columns but dose not achieve the same smoothness on other prints?
> ...



No worries about not answering the questions. Naturally I assumed that your team is trying to make the best possible prints and would be pursuing that goal if you could. 

The question was more to catalyse some thinking.  I found the stairs of the purple rook to look very glassy, and thought it had just been a question of layers. 

It might simply be that the glass columns were printed from high up and were straight, so the laser was interacting less with surrounding resin and produced a consistent surface as it went.

It could simply be a question with laser power, spot size, layer numbers, and print time. If you print it slow and take your time it may come out better? 

In any case, Im already super impressed with the prints so far, and with better calibration for accurate parts, the peachy will have surpassed my expectations (which were still high) by far.


-UD

----------


## mike_biddell

If the shrinkage for a particular resin is deterministic and repeatable, could it not be stated on the supply vessel label? Then could the print software have an automatic allowance for each resin type, so that after shrinkage, the dimensions would be more accurate. Not sure whether shrinkage is omni-directional though, so it might have to be an allowance per axis.

----------


## rylangrayston

> It could simply be a question with laser power, spot size, layer numbers, and print time. If you print it slow and take your time it may come out better? 
> 
> -UD


"It could simply be a question with laser power, spot size, layer   numbers, and print time. If you print it slow and take your time it may   come out better?"

yes longer print times small spot sizes and slower laser seems to help,  but more than 100 layers per mm dosent seem to make any difference.
No matter what settings I use there is often some subtle oscillation leaving rings on a print, it seems to happen with a period of about 50 layers. 
You can see it in this rocket, pronounced near the tip. 

Attachment 6564

more layers per mm probably would eliminate the patters you can see on  the tops of each stair here( altho you cant see these with just the  human eye) :
Attachment 6565

my latest Theory's are things to do with the way resin flows during the print, as well as how air may be affecting the surface of the resin. 
Im coming up with test prints that can help support or disprove what I think is happening. I feel like we are very close to really nailing perfectly glossy prints( as far as the human eye is concerned).

----------


## quertz

Those attachments are invalid?

----------


## mike_biddell

I've been thinking about the ridges in prints..... I reckon it is the wetting/surface tension effect. The way to prove this is to watch a print and time between the points where the resin overcomes surface tension and re-wets the surface of the printed object. Then take the time between wetting events and compute the increase in Z for that time. If the thickness of the ridges in the print correspond to this Z value, the ridges are caused by the surface tension effect.

Incidentally, this effect can be removed by bottom up printing i.e. shine the laser through the bottom of the tank. The worry about sticking to the bottom of the tank can be removed by adding 5 mm of brine first and floating the resin on it. A floating platform is raised using ordinary water and pulls the print upwards from the resin. The print never sticks to the tank because there is a 5mm gap between the resin and the tank bottom.

This method removes any focus problems (distance is fixed) and power problems (fixed).  Not sure how the galvos would behave when pointing upwards !!!!

----------


## mike_biddell

Oh and the other advantage is that the distance to the print never changes, so no mathematical correction for x and y in relationship to Z required. No calibration for z required, it would be the same for all prints, because the distance to the print could be identical for every print.

----------


## User_Defined

> "It could simply be a question with laser power, spot size, layer   numbers, and print time. If you print it slow and take your time it may   come out better?"
> 
> yes longer print times small spot sizes and slower laser seems to help,  but more than 100 layers per mm dosent seem to make any difference.
> No matter what settings I use there is often some subtle oscillation leaving rings on a print, it seems to happen with a period of about 50 layers. 
> You can see it in this rocket, pronounced near the tip. 
> 
> Attachment 6564
> 
> more layers per mm probably would eliminate the patters you can see on  the tops of each stair here( altho you cant see these with just the  human eye) :
> ...


If it truly was surface tension on the print layer, one would need to explain why a straight column prints so well.

 It has to be something, especially if it is evenly distributed along the print. I'm thinking software or physical/mechanical. I would see if you can line up those errors with a video of the print and see if you can spot them as they are being made. 

I would also check for linearity over the print surface. Maybe the column has no variations over its height and doesn't suffer from nonlinear effects as much.

Also see if you can print different shaped  columns and see where the boundary is between glassy smooth and beginning to get rough.


-UD

----------


## mike_biddell

> If it truly was surface tension on the print layer, one would need to explain why a straight column prints so well.
> 
>  It has to be something, especially if it is evenly distributed along the print. I'm thinking software or physical/mechanical. I would see if you can line up those errors with a video of the print and see if you can spot them as they are being made. 
> 
> I would also check for linearity over the print surface. Maybe the column has no variations over its height and doesn't suffer from nonlinear effects as much.
> 
> Also see if you can print different shaped  columns and see where the boundary is between glassy smooth and beginning to get rough.
> 
> 
> -UD


I think it does explain exactly that. This is quite difficult to explainpeachy.jpg
I hope my cr*p sketch explains it. And you must understand this is only a theory. But it does explain why it does not affect even columns. The effect of the surface tension is to delay Z. The printer is printing Z, but as there is no resin layer on the object, therefore this printing has no effect and these Z values are 'lost'. When wetting occurs, the old Z values are not re-printed and if the object is tapering, the new X,Y values are smaller than the x,y for lost Z values, thus creating a step. 
With a cylindrical object, it doesn't matter about the lost Z values, because post wetting, the x, y values are the same and the resin is hardened without a step. I hope that makes sense, it is quite difficult to visualise.

----------


## mike_biddell

This problem is difficult to resolve apart from printing through the bottom of the tank. But there may be a potential improvement in delaying Z. That is you print nothing for 50 layers of Z and then start printing. Then experiment with Z delay until you get the best print. 

On reflection, this wont make any difference, there will always be a point where you are printing with a bulging meniscus and no resin on top of the print and hence you are printing into 'thin air'

I'm rambling on ..... LOL........... heating the resin could significantly reduce the surface tension of the resin and could be worth a try

I've just thought of a serious contender for a solution. As you will know, surface tension is the uneven pull of the molecules into the surface of the fluid, because there are no molecules above to pull equally. Well why not float say 1 cm of ordinary tap water on top of resin, to equalise the pull and neutralise the surface tension. Firing the laser through the water. The water should float on the resin easily. 

My theory is that this should neutralise the surface tension in the resin layer and print the missing Z values.

Angles must not be too steep or reflection/refraction could occur in the water layer.

----------


## iplayfast

I wonder if having ultrasonic vibrations in the water would remove surface tension issues.

----------


## mike_biddell

> I wonder if having ultrasonic vibrations in the water would remove surface tension issues.


iplayfast, according to the Physics textbooks, a thin layer of water will remove the surface tension in the photo resin and produce glassy smooth prints..... but since I dont have a Peachy, I am not in a position to put the theory to the test !!!!!

----------


## amoose136

If it is a surface tension issue and if you had a way of also removing saline you could, between layers, add more saline than needed and then remove it to the proper level. This would probably fix the surface tension issues relatively easily but would also increase print times significantly as the laser would spend a lot more time off waiting for the resin to come to the right level. In theory you could then print with molasses or another high surface tension liquid using this method. The easiest way to test if it is surface tension though is make two identical prints with the same printer in the same room-- once with the room temperature high and once with the temperature low. The ridges should get smaller in the high temperature case.

----------


## quertz

Hey guys,

I think the best way still is to just use less power.
The resin won't cure completely and there will always be a wet layer.

Lowering the layers will be pretty much impossible with the current Peachy setup.

But let's wait first for Rylan to tell us about the true source of those riffles!

quertz

----------


## iplayfast

> iplayfast, according to the Physics textbooks, a thin layer of water will remove the surface tension in the photo resin and produce glassy smooth prints..... but since I dont have a Peachy, I am not in a position to put the theory to the test !!!!!


That might work. The reason I was thinking ultrasonic was other sla printers print a layer, then the object moves down and up before the next layer is printed. I was guessing that this is to insure the model is coated, and break any surface tension.  Ultrasonic would keep a constant ripple at a high frequency where the average wave would be the print area.

However, I like your idea better.  So much simpler!

----------


## android78

How about if you had a speaker (audio, not ultrasonic) that would vibrate the tank between layers.  So have the laser trace the pattern then turn off while the tank is shaken, wait a short time for settling (avoiding ripples) and then do the next layer?

----------


## oninoshiko

> How about if you had a speaker (audio, not ultrasonic) that would vibrate the tank between layers.  So have the laser trace the pattern then turn off while the tank is shaken, wait a short time for settling (avoiding ripples) and then do the next layer?


I'm not saying it's not worth trying, but I would think the sound would also shake the mirror.

----------


## android78

> I'm not saying it's not worth trying, but I would think the sound would also shake the mirror.


I don't think shaking the mirror is a problem when the laser is off.

----------


## iplayfast

So you originally posted this list in July, I'm wondering how things stand at this point?




> 1. Sometimes we still get holes in our prints.
> hacker solutions           - slow your print down, help us figure out why this happens. 
> long term solution        - start doing r and d to the resin.
> 
> 2. coil wires are finicky and can  break off
> hacker solution            - solder your coil connections, when coil wires break unravel the wire and make a new connection, buy a new coil They will be cheap.
> Long term solution       - we want to put coils on there own pcb daughter boards, so they just plug in with a ribbon cable  
> 
> 3. some parts are very small and hard to assemble
> ...

----------


## rylangrayston

well since that post, some of these things have changed, 

1. We have printed with a wider variety of resins now and there is much good news from this. 
For one it seems that all of the resins that maker juice sells will work well with the peachy printer, 
and also some of them work better! These findings are worthy of an update, so Ill leave the details out for now. 

2. We have ordered coils that have connectors now, so instead of having to make the finky connections like before, the plan is to just use jumper wires, that plug into header pins.  These parts havent arrived yet, but they should be here soon and were hoping to ship them. 

3.  on the topic of small parts, just this week I finished making some simple tools that can speed up the process of pre assembling the laser parts, so were now thinking we can do that. A few weeks ago While working on the instructions, I found that a small wire can be bent into tweezers that are just right for placing the tiny magnets in the kit, so that process while still tricky, has improved. 

4.  no further work has been done on this. 

5. no further work has been done on this specifically, altho the software has seen massive improvements in many other arias.

----------


## iplayfast

> well since that post, some of these things have changed, 
> 
> 1. We have printed with a wider variety of resins now and there is much good news from this. 
> For one it seems that all of the resins that maker juice sells will work well with the peachy printer, 
> and also some of them work better! These findings are worthy of an update, so Ill leave the details out for now. 
> 
> 2. We have ordered coils that have connectors now, so instead of having to make the finky connections like before, the plan is to just use jumper wires, that plug into header pins.  These parts havent arrived yet, but they should be here soon and were hoping to ship them. 
> 
> 3.  on the topic of small parts, just this week I finished making some simple tools that can speed up the process of pre assembling the laser parts, so were now thinking we can do that. A few weeks ago While working on the instructions, I found that a small wire can be bent into tweezers that are just right for placing the tiny magnets in the kit, so that process while still tricky, has improved. 
> ...


Are you still getting holes in your prints?

----------


## rylangrayston

These days we often have prints with no holes at all, or tiny pin holes, which we think might be dust on the mirrors. 
Its still easy to get gaping holes like we used to have, if the printers exposure is set to high or to low.

----------


## IDefINIte

hey rylan do you think the holes could be surface tension leaving bubbles in the fluid? try a camera test of the surface while printing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sorry I didnt read page 3. Im still on surface tension though. have you seen a close up of the lasers z layers? maby its how the resin makes bumps when you get down to the 1 micron scale. Maby the surface tension occasionally snares, changing how the fluid acts over the wall, but yes Iv seen some staight walls like the posts have said. maby its just a bit to rare across the print to be surface tension though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

one more edit. also the drip could leave waves depending on how long it takes to cycle the laser per z axis. if those are caught it would change z height momentarily.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lol one more edit. just want to say i love this thing and 3d printers have been looking like this price tag from my start researching them. now on to my answer. point one and 2 were about the tension over an uneven (textured) surface. the drip fill adds resin filling the container and adding to the z axis. over time the surface tension rolls a bead over the edge of what the last layer printed untill it breaks and makes a micro wave across the entire wall. the tiny *ir made bubbles* from the laser hold the tension in spots untill theres enough mass to break tension. this mass is made from the full container mass and then pushed inward along bead these *ir bubbles* sort out liquid resin bubbles, making a wave like pattern.  problem is some times the *ir bubbles* wont arrange in a wave nice pattern like usual resulting in a sort of meniscus like resin wall, making an air bubble. the eveness or uneveness probably happens like rylan said because of print speed. slow prints make an full almost even flat layer curing l the way up to the surface of the resin. fast prints only cure so much probably still leaving a layer of uncured resin above the cured resin. this also comes out even because of the timing of the laser on the material. fast prints right now seem in this concept to be the worst option of the two. mid speed prints are some where inbetween this high/low making for a not so even, spikey, print surface. this allows for the air bubbles to build at a higher rate. maby try over volting the laser, or running prints on a super slow scale to test this out. if both come completely clean then im somewhere close. i think that why big name sterolithography would be using an arm and elevator technique to spread a new layer before the next print.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sorry im a bit out there. his post was literally right above mine and i still thought it wrong. but ill just leave these ramblings, semi unedited, and maby it sparks something. could try printing a plate or block you might see it aswell.

----------


## rylangrayston

IDefINlte:
I often find it impressive to see the depth to which many people here are able to theorize about the printer with out ever having one.

Ive done many time lapses of the peachy printing, and often tried to catch a bubble with a diameter of aprox 1-3 mm making a hole... but ive never been able to produce that, the bubles meniscus seem to repel the air from ever getting close enough to the wall of the print to stop it.
But I see how the bubles you are proposing are different, they are possibly created right on the wall and are very small. Iv never seen this effect but its a very interesting idea, its in my head now, so I will be looking for it.
Thanks for rambling  :Smile:   Oh what do dose the "ir" stand for in "ir bubbles" ?

----------


## Deadbot1

Rylan, could you try an experiment for me? Could you try heating the tank of salt water and the build tank, say by using an aquarium heater? My thought is that by heating the resin to around 100 to 120 degreesF (37-48C) the viscosity of the resin will go down and reduce surface tension. If it is a surface tension problem causing the holes then this should make it go away. Also, I'm curious as to what effect a thinner resin would have on the print quality.

edit: heated thinned out resin may also make faster prints possible?

----------


## IDefINIte

this water idea HAS GOT TO DIE! SERIOUSLY lol. it would work yes but theres a simpler answer here. go ahead and try and salvage your resin with the water on top. probably youll just end up with less dense resin and a changed uv substance that wont print properly. the community needs to move on on this one. sorry but its a fail/hack.

----------


## IDefINIte

> this water idea HAS GOT TO DIE! SERIOUSLY lol. it would work yes but theres a simpler answer here. go ahead and try and salvage your resin with the water on top. probably youll just end up with less dense resin and a changed uv substance that wont print properly. the community needs to move on on this one. sorry but its a fail/hack.


btw ir stands or uv  :Smile:  damn laser technology...

----------


## quertz

Hey IDefINIte,

please stay on a professional level,
If you've followed this project at least to some extend, you'd know that the Peachy uses a UV laser (as pretty much every SLA-Printer ot there) and that the resin not only floats on top of the water but doesn't even mix at all.
Before ranting please consider having a look at what they've already achieved (The Kickstarter Updates). The prints do have a quality that is absolutely comparable to other printers way more expensive and although the Peachy Printer itself is a hackable product, the technology of floating the resin on water itself definitely isn't a fail/hack.

quertz

----------


## rylangrayston

> Rylan, could you try an experiment for me? Could you try heating the tank of salt water and the build tank, say by using an aquarium heater? My thought is that by heating the resin to around 100 to 120 degreesF (37-48C) the viscosity of the resin will go down and reduce surface tension. If it is a surface tension problem causing the holes then this should make it go away. Also, I'm curious as to what effect a thinner resin would have on the print quality.
> 
> edit: heated thinned out resin may also make faster prints possible?


I just brought an aquarium heater to the shop the other day, Not sure when we will try this but when we do Ill be sure to post about it.

----------


## IDefINIte

Iv have researched a bit, though the water technique has seemed speculative to me sorry. On that Im out on the Peachy personally. Way to much refraction with that and Im still hung up on keeping pure resin for later. Also maby I misremembered seeing a red laser. I assumed it was heat cured resin with the red beam. My mistake. I have seen blue/purple UV lamp techniques the entire time Iv looked up liquid resin printers. The correction was a bright note on my doubts of this printer, though I havent yet seen UV laser scanning so that might be fun tech for you guys. When I say doubts though I mean there was only one place for my 100 dolllars to go at this point in home printing technology and Peachy kept doing for me. By the way I do have a better technique that Iv sent to Rylan in the background. Its a two birds technique that I feel brings professionalism to their product. It spawned a backhanded compliment from him which was entirely professional in my eyes. The post I made to him was awkward but I felt it necessary to say what I said. Still do when i say i doubt the water technique. Maby querts that clears something up. I have a makeable concept in mind for what ill do on my end not a hackable one.

----------


## /dev/null

> Iv have researched a bit, though the water technique has seemed speculative to me sorry. On that Im out on the Peachy personally. Way to much refraction with that and Im still hung up on keeping pure resin for later.


If you did any research at all, you would have known that resin does not mix with water and therefore remains pure, that it can float on top of salt water, etc. By the way, quertz already told this to you: "resin not only floats on top of the water but doesn't even mix at all". But clearly you did not read his message carefully. And what refraction, what you are talking about? Peachy Printer prints on top surface of the resin, before hitting resin surface, laser beam passes only through the air.




> Also maby I misremembered seeing a red laser. I assumed it was heat cured resin with the red beam.


Didn't you watch the video at peachyprinter.com homepage? It clearly shows how it prints: on top of the water floats pure resin, which is cured with UV laser. Also, this forum have many threads where UV laser and UV-curable resins are discussed.




> By the way I do have a better technique that Iv sent to Rylan in the background. Its a two birds technique that I feel brings professionalism to their product.


Even if you actually have "better technique", it most likely will be more expensive than water and drip system.




> The post I made to him was awkward but I felt it necessary to say what I said. Still do when i say i doubt the water technique.


It definitely was not necessary, because without knowing basic facts about Peachy Printer or even UV-curable resins in general you claimed that the idea has to die, even though it proved to be successful (just look at the Peachy gallery and watch the video) and inexpensive.

----------


## IDefINIte

"resin not only floats on top of the water but doesn't even mix at all"

ok fine but when i pack up my printer or drain my tank what do i do with the water? do i now need some sort of shaker device to dissipate the 2 liquids perfectly so that they dont collide during the next print? maby this is where the holes were comming from. this being used on the videos i watched is new ill check again. 

Also these 2 collided for me

1 And what refraction, what you are talking about? Peachy Printer prints on top surface of the resin, before hitting resin surface, laser beam passes only through the air. 

2 It clearly shows how it prints: on top of the water floats pure resin, which is cured with UV laser.

my though was the hack as i callled it broke "surface" or top layer tension by pulling the resin up with water. Its a great thought when purely physics based but terrible when in function practice. 

Even if you actually have "better technique", it most likely will be more expensive than water and drip system.

yes and no. yes being more parts would be used to make my system. it streamlines the whole operation to me and is what id throw together in my home. no i dont think the cost of the Peachy would have to take any heat with the way id see the manufacturing put into place. alot of my post to Rylan was on the price points being thrown around. i did take sometime to explain the downside iv been seeing and put in a warning on the Freudian bubble about to be popped in this industry but i think i ended on good terms. he said $99 dollars and i was very intrigued about this tankless printer but i still wont invest into this as a water machine. the idea shouldnt die, it should live! and kick the ass of every company that didnt release this 99 dollar technology to the public. it just needs to be dialed in more to me.

----------


## IDefINIte

double morning post.

SORRY.

the saltwater concept completely left my mind after picking it up. i just rewatched "how it works" from their blog... go figure. i was thinking on using 100's of dollars of resin and re batching it. im split on methods here. the salt water is probably churning with laser heat and making its way into the resin making the holes. i wonder what comes ontop in a shake test :P. great cost saver though if a tolerance is made to stop heat and wave transference. i still find it hacky but yes its cheep and effective.

sorry to the community for being a lost forward in my posts. the concept of the Peachy is an industry killer i sware.

----------


## iplayfast

> double morning post.
>  the salt water is probably churning with laser heat and making its way into the resin making the holes.


Interesting thought. I wonder if sugar water might be a better solution.

----------


## /dev/null

> ok fine but when i pack up my printer or drain my tank what do i do with the water? do i now need some sort of shaker device to dissipate the 2 liquids perfectly so that they dont collide during the next print?


You do not need any special device. There are many ways to remove water from the bottom, but simplest in my opinion is to use a pump. Either manual pump (less than $2 on ebay) or motorized. You do not have to remove salt water completely, it is OK to leave some water on the bottom. All you need is to bring down top surface of the resin so you could start printing again. You could easily remove remaining slim layer of salt water at the bottom completely, with syringe for example, but that's not necessary, you can safely store your resin with some water at the bottom, it will not harm it (only reason I can think of to completely remove salt water would be if you decide to use remaining resin in some bottom-up printer). What to do with removed salt water? Usually you would want to put it back to the top reservoir, if motorized pump is used, you could pump it up there with a push of a button.




> my though was the hack as i callled it broke "surface" or top layer tension by pulling the resin up with water. Its a great thought when purely physics based but terrible when in function practice.


Are you referring to mike_biddell's idea from other thread to use normal water as top layer, resin in the middle and salt water in the bottom? If so, you could have made it much clearer by using proper quotes and references. Yes, that idea would be a hack because to make it work properly you have to hack the software to take the top distiled water layer into account, not to mention other complications (for example, top water layer will evaporate slowly and change its thickness). But like other hacks/mods for Peachy from this forum, most users will not need them, and at the moment such ideas are intended only for small group of people who would like to experiment, and may not even give any obvious improvement.




> i was thinking on using 100's of dollars of resin and re batching it.


I do not think that UV resin is conductive, so you would have to invent your own hack for the drip system intended for conductive salt water or replace it with something else. And using so much resin just to fill printing volume would be a waste, if you have so much money it is better to get many different resins and have them in many different colors, or just save a lot of money for something else if you do not need this. Also keep in mind that resin have limited shelf life so having too much resin is not a good idea. All of these are the reasons why Peachy uses salt water instead of enormous quantities of resin.




> i wonder what comes ontop in a shake test


Since water and resin do not mix and salt is dissolved in the water but pretty much cannot be dissolved in the resin, resin will come up on top.




> the salt water is probably churning with laser heat and making its way into the resin making the holes


That's physically impossible. Resin is almost opaque for UV light, so UV laser affects mostly resin surface. Truly unpigmented resins usually have severe light bleeding issues and practically cannot be used without pigmentation. Some pigments are clear for visible light but almost opaque for UV light, so it is possible to have "tranparent" UV-curable resin. But the point is, very little or none (depends on the resin) of laser power reaches the water. And by the way, by heating up both water and the resin there is a chance to improve print quality and reduce probability of unwanted small holes/bubbles in the print (if you or somebody else would like to discuss this idea please post to Heated tank to mitigate surface tension? thread).

----------


## mike_biddell

> You do not need any special device. There are many ways to remove water from the bottom, but simplest in my opinion is to use a pump. Either manual pump (less than $2 on ebay) or motorized. You do not have to remove salt water completely, it is OK to leave some water on the bottom. All you need is to bring down top surface of the resin so you could start printing again. You could easily remove remaining slim layer of salt water at the bottom completely, with syringe for example, but that's not necessary, you can safely store your resin with some water at the bottom, it will not harm it (only reason I can think of to completely remove salt water would be if you decide to use remaining resin in some bottom-up printer). What to do with removed salt water? Usually you would want to put it back to the top reservoir, if motorized pump is used, you could pump it up there with a push of a button.
> 
> 
> Are you referring to mike_biddell's idea from other thread to use normal water as top layer, resin in the middle and salt water in the bottom? If so, you could have made it much clearer by using proper quotes and references. Yes, that idea would be a hack because to make it work properly you have to hack the software to take the top distiled water layer into account, not to mention other complications (for example, top water layer will evaporate slowly and change its thickness). But like other hacks/mods for Peachy from this forum, most users will not need them, and at the moment such ideas are intended only for small group of people who would like to experiment, and may not even give any obvious improvement.
> 
> 
> I do not think that UV resin is conductive, so you would have to invent your own hack for the drip system intended for conductive salt water or replace it with something else. And using so much resin just to fill printing volume would be a waste, if you have so much money it is better to get many different resins and have them in many different colors, or just save a lot of money for something else if you do not need this. Also keep in mind that resin have limited shelf life so having too much resin is not a good idea. All of these are the reasons why Peachy uses salt water instead of enormous quantities of resin.
> 
> 
> ...


I do hope my suggestion hasn't caused any confusion. A thin water layer on top of the resin, as dev/null has stated is NOT the normal operating mode of the Peachy. I was merely exchanging/kicking about, ideas about with other hackers to get their opinions (it's always good to talk). It's just something I will try when I get my Peachy. After all, just because something should work in theory, doesn't mean it will work in practice as refraction effects may rule it out.

----------


## IDefINIte

Im just going to put it out there during this back and forth. Im a non-functioning Schizophrenic. I have a decent grasp on the printer at this point and Im looking for some projects. Unfortunately this print qualtiy is sending me back to making my own printer. I sware I can do it on my on time frame. Old thoughts colliding with a new state.

By the way i got the heat/wave thought wrong. Its an easy one actually. Sorry for the confusing posts. 

Correct me if Im wrong...
Step 1 Dump in resin for prints 
Step 2 Water drip starts but has no room to fit under the resin. When acting like fluid substances will the 2 collide and in this case the resin is one denser and      hydrophobic. So... When the resin solution is disrupted by the turmoil of the water drip the water pushes up before out and making an even elevator. Peachy is not getting a clean underlayer of water pushing up the resin. Instead water makes pockets inside the solution. 

Step 3 Get lucky wither a pocket of water will enter your print or not.

I still am confused why some prints are glasslike and others seem to look like someone was trying to laser sinter the top of a moving resin Atlantic Ocean. 
I suggested in the background a test with clear resin and colored water.Should be guaranteed if im now thinking the water lift right, somehow that escaped my mind.

Im going to call it reverse lava lamping. Lamping for short.

----------


## Feign

You have made two erroneous assumptions in Step 2.  First, the water doesn't drip onto the open surface of the resin.  Second, the water is heavier than the resin due to the salt content.

There is a tube that directs the salt water to the bottom of the resin vat, any turbulence in the salt water/resin interface is contained inside the tube until the bubbles of water exit out of the tube firmly at the bottom of the tank, where they stay.

----------


## IDefINIte

Feign i did assume the water was going to float ontop the resin. That was wrong. i didnt not assuming the water dripped ontop but in the middle, and unevenly. the bubbles are poppping out in random ways building a larger mass which now im thinking pops out underneath. id assume the resin traps the bubbles sometimes making the holes in the prints. wich might be dead by now. there hasnt been many posts.

they could try an egg beater test and pouring wating into resin from a pitcher. probably simple enough to see it trapped or not.

since i dropped in this babble and iv had the working of this printer wrong the whole time i guess ill just ask here. how do i start a print with this thing? if theres a 1/2 inch to an inch of resin floating does the printer just uv cure through plastic to make a base of standoffs?

----------


## quertz

Hey IDefINIte,

As far as I know from the Updates and Videos, the print works as follows:
(With a small sketch; probably one of the worst pictures I've made so far but it shows what I want to show)
PeachyPrinterSketch.jpg
You have a Tank containing some salt water and a wire mesh.
There is a tube going down into the water at the side for the drips.
You put a layer of resin on the water.
You start the dripper and the print.
As the water starts to raise, the printer prints a support structure that encloses the mesh.
Once the top of the layer is above the "grill", the printing of the object can begin.


Cheers,
quertz

----------


## IDefINIte

Grill was the answer thanks quertz

----------


## Bryce

I know printing accurate to dimensions in the x and y axis had been an issue previously mentioned and am wondering if any progress has been made to resolve it and if so how accurate it has gotten.

----------


## Anuvin

It is still a matter of calibration, but it is getting very close.

----------

