# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  Prusa i3v Rigidity of 8" vs 10" vs 12" and other Nooby questions

## ex-egll

Hi, brand new to the world of 3D printing, so please be kind!

I have spent the last week researching printers, and I think I have settled on a Makerfarm Prusa i3v. The design looks good, manufacturer support looks good and there seems to be an active user community.

I definitely like the idea of building the kit rather than just plug and play, I plan on getting the Heaxagon Nozzle for 1.75mm filament, I really couldn't get and feeling for 1.75mm vs 3mm in the research.

One thing I would like to do is colour the wooden frame, what is the best approach, spray paint of wood stain. The end colour will likely be black. Is it possible that the liquid stain could cause warping issues?

On the 12" kit I notice that there is a choice of RAMPS vs RAMBO vs RUMBA electronics, but I am not sure what the different versions offer.

Finally, although I suspect that the 8" model will support my needs, I would be happy to go to either the 10" or the 12" as I am sure that as I progress the extra capability may be useful. The only concern I have is the rigidity of the larger models, should I be concerned?

Thanks for any input

ex-egll

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## printbus

The i3v's are a great way to go. You can put as little or as much effort as you want to into the assembly and subsequent mods.  

The approach to coloring the frame is probably more the look you are going for than anything.  A few have reported the Y-bed arriving warped or warping shortly after kit assembly, but there's no historical pattern saying one method of coloring is "better" than another for minimizing warping. 

The 12-inch originally was only provided with RAMBO electronics. The option to select RAMPS or RUMBA as well must be very new.  Most of the users here are familiar with RAMPS since that's all that has been available on the 8-inch and 10-inch printers.  If you order a RUMBA variation, you could possibly be the first and would have to work through issues mostly on your own.  The major difference is how they are built.  RAMPS starts with a very generic Arduino-type MEGA2560 board where the firmware executes.  The RAMPS adapter board plugs onto that, providing connections tailored for the 3D printer application.  Stepper motors are driven by individual driver boards that in turn plug onto the RAMPS board.  RAMBO has all of that functionality integrated onto one board.  RUMBA is sort of in-between in that the MEGA2560 and RAMPS board functionality is on one board but you still use the plug-on stepper motor drivers.  Is there a clear winner? IDK, but an advantage of RAMPS is that if something fries you only have to replace the part of it that is fried. With especially RAMBO, if you fry part of the board you have to replace the whole board.

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## ex-egll

Thanks for the detailed response, time for more researching!

Do you have any info on the rigidity of the 8 vs 10 vs 12? 

ex-egll

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## sniffle

I'ver had a 12" for a few weeks now, i have to say it seems pretty rigid, but i have never used an 8" to compare it to... it doesnt flex when i pick it up or move it.

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## printbus

I think there's only one or two people with more than one size of MakerFarm printers, so it'll be hard to get first hand input on the rigidity question. An advantage of the i3v series is the aluminum v-rail system. Once everything is bolted together, the rails will give the printer a lot of rigidity, regardless of the size.  Areas on the larger printers that *might* be a concern are the larger Y-bed and the wider wood pieces at the front & rear of the Y rails.  Colin at MakerFarm has replaced the few Y-beds that have warped, and any issues with flex on those front & rear slats can be resolved by reinforcing them.

As the size goes up, the amount of power dissipation involved with the heated bed goes up.  Based on info in various threads, the 12-inch printer is pushing the limit on running a 12V heated bed.  You're dealing with upwards of 30 amps of current, which requires some hefty wiring.  Just pointing out a consideration you didn't know about...

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## AbuMaia

One problem I had with the i3, was the Y axis rods would bend if I put feet on my printer only on the front and back panels. I have not had that problem with the i3v, so in that case it is more rigid.

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## ex-egll

Thanks for the replies! Must confess the 30 Amp limit hadn't crossed my mind. So far the good old Canadian way of compromise is tempting. I am leaning towards the 10" model!

ex-egll

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## ex-egll

Well, a couple of e-mails to Colin (what amazing service) and the decision is made.
12" i3v kit, graphical LCD, Rumba Electronics, 3mm Hexagon head
Order should go in in the next few weeks once I get established in the RV down South.

Thanks for all the responses, there WILL be more questions!

ex-egll

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## Cameron

Hmmm.. I just got the default electronics and the 3mm Hexagon head. What did the graphical LCD and Rambo give you that the standard didn't? 
I don't think I will be needing 3 Extruders on my 12". 

Please expound on what you found out that swayed you in that direction!  :Smile: 

Thanks!

Cameron

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## TechMasterJoe

i have the 12" and must say it's doing well BUT i had a very SLIGHT Banding in my prints. after bolting it to a piece of 5/8in  MDF
i have not had any problems

eta on instructable is 1 week
it will cover org build and 1204 ball screw Z mods
mind you this thing built and bolted down prints on par to any printer you will find as is
i just like ball screws as they tend to live a longer life then threaded rod and speed Z up a lot at the cost of resolution
but the real impact is small (.00125 mm per step or 800steps per 1mm is still very good and much faster then 4000 steps per mm you get from the 5mm-.8 rods)
the use of thread rod is the one and only thing i dislike everything i have looked at and gone over like 100 times and see no problems or reasons to mod

mods done or soon to be done

C42's Z End-stop mount. still far better then included one as my printer is soon to be encased and this you can reach this from the front note: this end stop is set about 3mm below the bed and wired in series with Z probe now as a E stop encase Servo Fails. "done"auto bed leveling. my own custom Mini Servo mount as all i have on hand is 34 spare mini servos and did not feel like buying a 9gram "done"End-stop wiring has been switched to active on open with pullups enabled (this way it will stop if a switch fails or a wire comes loose) note this mod needs no new hardware only a small firmware change and where the wire attaches on the switches "done"extra spring for bed not supporting the hotbed with spring on all 4 corners is odd after doing this i raised the hotbed up an extra 3/32 to 1/4in just encase of a hotend crash on the bed (pushes bed down apx 1/8 before hitting 2nd Z endstop) "done"printable M3 thumb wheels for bed leveling (even with auto bed leveling you don't want it over working and destroying your Z axis)C42's dual hexagon setup. (awaiting my NEMA 14's and hardware kit)LED Ring and 3.14watt Laser (working on firmware) "soon"Painted about 80% of it and left some unpainted as i think it looks cool some black and some wood (parts painted are parts most prone to warping) "done"bolted down to 5/8in MDF board cutout to match footprint of the unit "done"put the MDF on 3dprinted mini Earthquake building rollers (allow the printer to move around and prevent skipping steps from jerking) "done"enclosure with full temp and humidity control "almost done built base today"

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## ex-egll

Hi, what persuaded me to go with the 12".... good question. I guess I was a little concerned that as I started to use the printer more and more, I might outgrow the 8" model, and the price difference between the two wasn't too hard to swallow and certainly less than buying a second printer later on. Plus Colin dispelled any concerns I had about rigidity in the larger models.

Graphical LCD.... what can I say, I like gadgets, plus I believe it would have its uses if a computer was not connected up to the printer e.g. SD card only

Rumba vs Rambo vs Ramps wasn't based on the extruders  :Smile: , Rumba will support more fans than the RAMPS which may well be useful, and I believe it has more "expandability" than RAMPS / Rambo. From a purely masochistic point of view, Rumba may be a little more difficult to tweak given that initially there will be a smaller community user base to draw from.

I am sure my decision was made for all the wrong reasons, but unless I have something totally wrong, I think I'll stick with it.







> Hmmm.. I just got the default electronics and the 3mm Hexagon head. What did the graphical LCD and Rambo give you that the standard didn't? 
> I don't think I will be needing 3 Extruders on my 12". 
> 
> Please expound on what you found out that swayed you in that direction! 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Cameron

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## TechMasterJoe

> Hi, what persuaded me to go with the 12".... good question. I guess I was a little concerned that as I started to use the printer more and more, I might outgrow the 8" model, and the price difference between the two wasn't too hard to swallow and certainly less than buying a second printer later on. Plus Colin dispelled any concerns I had about rigidity in the larger models.
> 
> Graphical LCD.... what can I say, I like gadgets, plus I believe it would have its uses if a computer was not connected up to the printer e.g. SD card only
> 
> Rumba vs Rambo vs Ramps wasn't based on the extruders , It will support more fans than the RAMPS which may well be useful, and I believe it has more "expandability" than RAMPS / Rumba. From a purely masochistic point of view, Rumba may be a little more difficult to tweak given that initially there will be a smaller community user base to draw from.
> 
> I am sure my decision was made for all the wrong reasons, but unless I have something totally wrong, I think I'll stick with it.


just a heads up Rumba has more future proofing then Rambo
i have Rambo on mine and had to do a few tricks to make it work with servos for ABL
out side the servo thing it's a good control board very surprised it dose not support servos by default.
easy to wire compared to RAMPS and Rumba 98% plug and play
in fact the only cables you need to make on the 12in ver is extend extruder Stepper and Temp wires about 8in so they are not stressed

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## ex-egll

Whoops, I got my Rumbas and Rambos mixed up. I had opted for the Rumba, but my keyboard wanted the Rambo!!

Previous posts changed, sorry about that.

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## Cameron

Hmmm.... I haven't researched the ABL stuff yet...... Can the ABL run off the RAMPS? 
That is definitely something I plan on adding sooner than later.
I ordered the 12"er yesterday with the default electronics.

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## printbus

> Hmmm.... I haven't researched the ABL stuff yet...... Can the ABL run off the RAMPS? 
> That is definitely something I plan on adding sooner than later.
> I ordered the 12"er yesterday with the default electronics.


Yes, a number of people here have RAMPS and ABL.

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## ex-egll

Can anybody point me to a user manual for the Rumba board, I have found one for Rambo but Rumba eludes me.

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## printbus

> Can anybody point me to a user manual for the Rumba board, I have found one for Rambo but Rumba eludes me.


Other than the info on the RUMBA page at the reprap wiki, I don't think there is one.  Manuals typically aren't available for this stuff. There seems to be an assumption that you've already learned how to use the product or can figure it out by going over the schematics, which often are available.

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## ex-egll

Kind of figured that was the case, but I was encouraged when I found a manual for Rambo! In my seach I couldn't even find any schematics though, do you have a pointer to them please.

Thanks

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## printbus

> Kind of figured that was the case, but I was encouraged when I found a manual for Rambo! In my seach I couldn't even find any schematics though, do you have a pointer to them please.


http://reprap.org/wiki/RUMBA, and look under the Summary heading

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## ex-egll

Thanks, that'll teach me to disregard the summary in future!

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## ex-egll

Final questions before pulling the plug and ordering! 

I will be ordering the 12" i3v, 3mm hexagon head and the Graphics LCD.

From others that have built this kit, is there anything you would upgrade or swap-out from the original parts supplied?

Also, any recommendations for a CAD programme for designing pieces from scratch. I do some metalworking and use Solidworks for that, but was wondering if there was something not as "sophisticated" that is in general use.

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## gmay3

> From others that have built this kit, is there anything you would upgrade or swap-out from the original parts supplied?


I have the 8" model but in general, if it is still shipped with the plastic tubing that joins the threaded rods to the Z motors, upgrade to metal rod couplers. 





> Also, any recommendations for a CAD programme for designing pieces from scratch. I do some metalworking and use Solidworks for that, but was wondering if there was something not as "sophisticated" that is in general use.



Definitely give Google SketchUp a try. It is great for simple models or any models that don't need many curves. Make sure to add the STL export plugin so you can slice your models. Usually the models come out with holes in them so you can run them through netfabb or https://modelrepair.azurewebsites.net/index.php (or both) finish them up.

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## ex-egll

Thanks gmay3, I'll checkout both the couplers and the software.

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## gmay3

No problem at all ex-egll, if you have any questions about either just let me know. 

A number (probably almost all) of us have upgraded the couplers soon afterwards so if you can add them to your Makerfarm order you might save yourself some shipping.

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## AbuMaia

Don't get the couplers from MakerFarm. They have two screws which tighten or loosen a split through the coupler, which is how it clamps onto the motor shaft and the threaded rods. The problem is the threaded rods are just a bit smaller than the motor shaft, so you have to really crank down on the rod screw in order to get it to hold tight.  

Instead look on Amazon for couplers that have set screws and no split, they'll hold better without fear of stripping out the screw or coupler.

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## Cameron

Hey I would be super grateful if you could give me a link to one of these on amazon!
I'm not 100% sure of the right size.

Thanks!

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## sniffle

This one?  I honestly dont know

New 5 x 5mm CNC Motor Jaw Shaft Coupler 5mm To 5mm Flexible Coupling # 07 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P8WBRJS..._Y5YTub0FKS08N

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## beerdart

dupe    .......

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## beerdart

sniffle those are the split collar ones. I like the two set screw ones like AbuMaia mentioned. I got mine from 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flexible-Sha...-/321596188204

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## ex-egll

Thanks Abu Maia, tracked down a pair on e-bay. Hopefully I'll get past the "research" stage soon, and have the kit ordered.

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## sniffle

Thats why i said i wasnt sure it looked like it also had a set screw.  Im going to get a pair soon as well.  Just gotta get paid.  2 rolls of really bad filament and 2 of out of guarenteed spec filament that were jamming in my print head to replace the 2 rolls of really bad have broken the bank for the moment.

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## usarmyaircav

I have a pair of the 2 screw couplers from Amazan and I really had to crank down hard on them.  So far no slipping that I can tell but I really need to mark them to be sure.

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## printbus

For thoroughness...

The spiral cuts in the aluminum couplers can create an annoying ringing sound when the Z motors are being driven.  What I found helped was wrapping the installed couplers with about two layers of clear packaging tape. That seems to dampen the spiral enough that the ringing is prevented or at least can't be heard.  

Wrapping the threaded rod with something like foil or metal tape is likely still a good idea, since that will help align the undersized threaded rod in the 5mm shaft coupler hole. If the undersized rod is pushed off to one side by the set screw, there's a chance that the offset rod will wobble some in rotation, possibly tugging on the X carriage a bit as the Z rods rotate to different positions.  Rather than worry about whether it's enough to notice in print quality, I prefer for the rods to rotate as true as they can.  

I also tried with these solid shaft couplers with set screws - http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-2-Shaft-...item339910ee99.  They mounted onto the motor shafts true, but tightening the set screw on the threaded rod would cause the threaded rod to distort out of being straight.  Whether this can be a problem on the spiral couplers with set screws, IDK.  I futzed with them a bit, but eventually went back to my clamping-style spiral couplers that I had also tapped for set screws.

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## beerdart

If your concerned about the threaded rod wobble just install a M5 heli-coil to eliminate any slop.

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## gswaluk

Hi, I've been following this thread (in silence) as I am also about to become a 3D-print nooby.  I am a Mech Engineer and run a small practice in VA.  Although, we consult in the Arch/Engr/Construction field (vs product design & development), we decided to build a small "maker lab" in our office more or less to keep our engineers excited about being engineers.  That being said, I have been researching a lot and landed here as I am honing in on the 12" i3v kit from Makerfarm.  The intent is to get a solid, versatile machine that we can upgrade/customize as we learn.  I am thinking about the kit (vs scratch-built) in order to hit the ground running and get the lab open.

I like the idea of the 12" build volume for future use and I am leaning toward the RAMPS with a .4mm Hexagon Nozzle for 3mm filament.  Am I correct in assuming that the Hexagon nozzles can be swapped out without changing the entire hot end (since they are available individually)?  Also, I am stuck a bit on the electronics.  I like the "accessibilty" of the RAMPS setup.  Adding extra fans or LED lighting doesn't seem like it would be hard to do "outside" the controller, but with no experience, I would appreciate any comments/advice that others could share on this or on my "choices".

Thanks!

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## sniffle

> Hi, I've been following this thread (in silence) as I am also about to become a 3D-print nooby.  I am a Mech Engineer and run a small practice in VA.  Although, we consult in the Arch/Engr/Construction field (vs product design & development), we decided to build a small "maker lab" in our office more or less to keep our engineers excited about being engineers.  That being said, I have been researching a lot and landed here as I am honing in on the 12" i3v kit from Makerfarm.  The intent is to get a solid, versatile machine that we can upgrade/customize as we learn.  I am thinking about the kit (vs scratch-built) in order to hit the ground running and get the lab open.
> 
> I like the idea of the 12" build volume for future use and I am leaning toward the RAMPS with a .4mm Hexagon Nozzle for 3mm filament.  Am I correct in assuming that the Hexagon nozzles can be swapped out without changing the entire hot end (since they are available individually)?  Also, I am stuck a bit on the electronics.  I like the "accessibilty" of the RAMPS setup.  Adding extra fans or LED lighting doesn't seem like it would be hard to do "outside" the controller, but with no experience, I would appreciate any comments/advice that others could share on this or on my "choices".
> 
> Thanks!


Outside of having little to no support because it's so new the Rambo board has been quite nice.  Ultimately though Ramps, RAMBo and Rumba are all the same thing with just different ways of going about it.

smoothieboard would be something crazy different.

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## TopJimmyCooks

gswaluk - you can swap nozzles on a hexagon by unscrewing the nozzle from the heater block.  I have never done it but have a couple of different sized nozzles when the time comes.  you would need to recalibrate Z or recalibrate Z offset if you are using ABL.

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## printbus

> If your concerned about the threaded rod wobble just install a M5 heli-coil to eliminate any slop.


That's an interesting idea.  Tool kit and inserts on order...

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## AbuMaia

Here's an interesting set of couplers I just found: http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00P8WBRJS. They have both the split *and* set screws. I wonder how well they would work?

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## printbus

> Here's an interesting set of couplers I just found: http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00P8WBRJS. They have both the split *and* set screws. I wonder how well they would work?


That's essentially what I have, except that I tapped the split couplers for a set screw on my own.  It's great - tighten the clamp as much as you can and then tighten the set screw as an extra measure.

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## AbuMaia

Ah, I saw your post too late. I just placed an order for these earlier: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M4VNAPA

Edit: Nevermind, don't get what I got. "Estimated delivery date: Thursday, February 12, 2015 - Tuesday, March 3, 2015"  :Mad:

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## AbuMaia

> If your concerned about the threaded rod wobble just install a M5 heli-coil to eliminate any slop.


How does that work?

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## printbus

> How does that work?


 Helicoil info: start with a non-split coupler.  Enlarge the hole in one end. Thread with a specially sized tap. Thread in coil insert that provides M5 internal threads.  Thread in the M5 Z rods. Lock in place with jam nut.

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## ex-egll

Thanks for all the answers when I originally started this thread. I placed the order last night for thePrusa 12" i3v Kit (V-Slot Extrusion)
Graphical LCD & RUMBA Electronics and .40mm Hexagon Nozzle for 3mm Filament. I will also order the meatal couplers for the Z-motors discussed above.

Unfortunately I wont be able to do too much assembly until we get home to Canada in March, at least it will give me plenty of time to read the instructions and watch the videos!

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## PlotThikns

Rigidity of my Prusa 10" i3v concerns me too. It has no really robust table, just a snack table, and I wonder if carrying it, table and all, to another room would disturb the bed leveling so I would need to do that over again. If the frame twisted, then my adjustments would all come undone, wouldn't they? What do others use as tables for their 3D printers?

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## beerdart

First thing i did was mount and level the printer to a 3/4" sheet of MDF.

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## usarmyaircav

Not sure if it was on here or somewhere else but someone mounted their printer to some butcherblock, that they had left over.  I am going to see finding some of that.  I like that idea.

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## adamfilip

I have my printer sitting on two 12" x 24" ceramic tiles
I have never really lifted it.. but i have rotated it to get access to the rambo

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## davypenn

Hi,
This is my first post here.
I have a makerfarm prusa i3 12".
First of all Colin is top notch customer service and I my comments are only about the machine and not him or his great company.

My machine has been running for two months constantly
The size of this machine is not for a small environment. I found the useful printing space to be more like 11.5" square. I have yet to fill that space. 8 x 8 would have done me fine.
I work in ABS only as I am a mechanical designer and need real plastic.  And I work in a lab

Biggest miss is the 1.75mm- .3mm  hexagon hot end. That thing was non stop clogs because of heat migration. I shelved it for a Prometheus v2. haven't had a clog since.

My machine has been running for two months constantly
....The suggested power supply failed after a week.... I switched to a dell server 45 amp job. It's loud but delivers!

I only use blue tape and ABS "juice" together (i hate that term "juice")

I made a cardboard enclosure to retain heat to keep my abs from warping. Ugly but works

After a little while the y axis wood flex was unbearable so that got reinforced with aluminum square tube machined to the makerfarm specs.
The wood grain is in the wrong direction in the back where the stepper mounts. The front flexes too
They just mount over the wood. Then the wood is bolted to them. they also hold the 20x20 rigid. I needed longer 5mm bolts here

The wood table on the y axis cupped like a salad bowl. so that was straightened with 1/2 aluminum tube frame. this will be a water jet component soon.
My solution was just a fix. but it raises the plate and adds weight. plus I had to make some spring block extensions for the heat table

I machined removable spacers for the 20x20 rail on the x axis so I can adjust them to parallel (important) 
Also made vertical alignment blocks for the two z steppers.

There still flex, but my prints are still acceptable (IMO)
I'll post pics if you want
D

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