# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > Hyrel 3D Printer Forum >  Hyrel 3D System 30 - Impressive

## RedSox2013

I've seen a lot of quality in the 3D Printing industry over the last year, however this video really makes the Hyrel System 30 3D Printer look quite awesome.  What do you think?

*Features of Hyrel System 30:* 
Enclosed, all metal, up to 4 extruders or accessories can be mounted on the center yoke, IKO Linear Bearing Systems, large build area, integrated air-filtration system, side-mounted filament system, embedded PC, active Matrix LCD with Touch Screen, interchangeable, hot-swappable, programmable head system, change settings during builds, integrated video camera for remote build monitoring, plug-&-play electronics, remote connectivity via smart phone, Tablet or PC.

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## crowbar

Looks like the guy still hasn't shipped any units to his KS backers.

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## JohnA136

Wow, this looks like a great system!  Very complete and well thought out, however, if he promised them to backers in 2012 and still has not delivered, where are all the units?  If I shelled out thousands if dollars expecting a printer and did not get it, I would be pissed?  Is there any recourse for people who fund kickstarters and don't get what they are promised?  Or is it all a crap shoot?

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## RedSox2013

Yeah John I'd be ticked off too.  I actually am involved in a lot of crowdfunding advising, and the number one thing I see are people over promising and under delivering.  Often times these companies do not realize just how incredible popular their product could become on Kickstarter, and end up getting in way over their heads.  This causes massive delays sometimes as they need to change their production plans.  That's likely what happened here.

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## MysteryAlabaster

It's the Fill-a-bot all over again!

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## crowbar

Promised delivery in Dec 2012-Jan 2013 to KS backers.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...rel-3d-printer

Current status of those KS printers...
http://www.hyrel3d.com/queue-for-orders/

This is why I don't back anything on Kickstarter that is already on the market. The cost savings is not worth the risk. I am also very hesitant to back any project run by those under 30 years of age.

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## nka

KS may be a way to get something at a good price, but it's not what it's made for. KS is made to help someone get started with a project. Mostly do the "first batch" to lower the cost or ordering the first batch of stuff.

Normally, they should lower the margin by a LOT (almost to the cost of the item) to get a lot of people and having a really big "first" order. Then you can open an account with a supplier having a really low price (Most supplier do different "cost" price, depending on your first order and annual order). When it's done, you can sell the product you made at the price it should be, with the low price you have for the part... this is were you make money (not with the KS!). Many business does understand that. You may see some very small shop selling stuff at very low price and the other bigger shop will say "It's under my cost price... I can't do it !". This may only caused by the fact that the little shop do "special sales" at his own cost price (no profit) so he can have a lower cost price and sell the item at the same retail price later and do more money per sales (plus the ads that does).

You can also see (like the Peachy) someone who need money to continue R&D. It's like investing in a project. You don't know if they will have a success or not... but you trust them, think they can do it, so you help them.

If you are going to KS just to get stuff at a low price, your looking at the wrong place (even if it's mostly the case).

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## crowbar

> If you are going to KS just to get stuff at a low price, your looking at the wrong place (even if it's mostly the case).


I here ya.  Tell that to the 720 people backing the QU-BD 3D printer. 

I canceled some pledges after finding similar stuff was already out in the market. I did buy 4 KS based products after they came to market. I got them for similar KS prices and in their 2nd revisions or so  :Wink:  KS folks were the guinea pigs.

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## nka

haha.. you see.

And I know there's a lot of KS Campain just to sell a product cheap (+ for users) and make money (+ for productor). Like the QU-DB. Already fully made... just needed to sell.

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## crowbar

These are a few things I bought after their kickstarter run. You don't save very much vs the risk.

Kickstarter prices (non early bird) vs price I paid.

Lumoback 
KS = $125
$135 version 2 via grandst.com +coupon

Printrbot Plus 
KS = $645
v2.1 $809 via a special weekend sale

Sensordrone 
KS = $175
$150 via coupon due to out of stock status

Filastruder
KS = $200 - $300
$249 direct

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## Davo

Hello. I work for Hyrel 3D.

Fair criticisms. 

Since Dec 2012, and presently, we have offered and continue to offer any of our kickstarter backers a full refund if they do not want to wait for us to deliver a product that we are proud of. So far, exactly one of the 49 backers who have actually ordered a printer has taken us up on this offer.

We update the community with broadcasts of our progress, and we have been holding skype/teamviewer sessions with our backers to train them on the printers. We will not ship any until we consider the software to be ready.

We did not use kickstarter to sell a product that had already been designed, tested and built. We were truthful with the information that we were developing this product. We have gone through many revisions, and I cannot say that we won't have more. If we feel that something else needs to be improved before we ship, then we will improve it before we ship. 

If you have any questions, please post them here.

Thanks,
Davo
http://hyrel3d.com

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## jimc

i must say, it really does look like a nice higher end and well engineered piece.

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## ferdinandcook

*That's right! 3D printing industry is now recognized for durability and real like replicas that are used in a wide variety of prototyping and all other business applications. Today, 3D printing companies are setting the standard replicator which are very technology-based products.*

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## Ravikaleova

> Promised delivery in Dec 2012-Jan 2013 to KS backers.
> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...rel-3d-printer
> 
> Current status of those KS printers...
> http://www.hyrel3d.com/queue-for-orders/
> LED bike light
> This is why I don't back anything on Kickstarter that is already on the market. The cost savings is not worth the risk. I am also very hesitant to back any project run by those under 30 years of age.


One thing I see are people over promising and under delivering.  Often  times these companies do not realize just how incredible popular their  product could become on Kickstarter, and end up getting in way over  their heads.

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## Davo

That page (queue for orders) rarely gets updated. Yes, we are very late with deliveries. But we are delivering.

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## Ravikaleova

> Yeah John I'd be ticked off too.  I actually am involved in a lot of crowdfunding advising, and the number one thing I see are people over promising and under delivering.  Often times these companies do not realize just how incredible popular their product could become on Kickstarter, and end up getting in way over their heads.  This causes massive delays sometimes as they need to change their production plans.  That's likely what happened here.
> bicycle lights


Bearing Systems, large build area, integrated air-filtration system, side-mounted filament system, embedded PC, active Matrix LCD with Touch Screen, interchangeable, hot-swappable, programmable head system, change settings during builds, integrated video camera for remote build monitoring, plug-&-play electronics, remote connectivity via smart phone, Tablet or PC.

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