# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  Itty Bitty Double FLEX Extruder

## clough42

Introducing the Itty Bitty Double FLEX Extruder:

IBDF-UpperRight-h.jpg


This is an evolution of the previous Itty Bitty Double Extruder with wider nozzle spacing and a shorter filament path to accommodate both E3Dv6 hot ends and flexible filament.  It *uses the same hardware kit* as the Itty Bitty Double Extruder, so if you already built one, you can print out the parts and use the hardware you already have.

Key features:

Designed for Hexagon or E3Dv6 hot ends on 27mm centersShort, straight filament path to accommodate flexible materialsUses the same hardware kit as the original Itty Bitty Double ExtruderNEMA 14 motorsSilent GT2 belt drives with printed pulleysIntegrated servo Z probeCam-lock idler bearing pinsUses standard MakerFarm hobbed boltsLighter than a stock Accessible ExtruderIntegrated hot end coolingMounting hardware for Prusa i3v printers

Please use this thread for questions and discussion.

**** A hardware kit is available ****
Get it here

Links:
Info and printable parts:  http://clough42.com/designs/itty-bitty-double-flex/Hardware kit:  http://clough42.com/go/product/IBDE-HKAssembly instructions:  http://clough42.com/go/itty-bitty-double-flex-assemblyFirmware setup:  http://clough42.com/go/marlin-firmware-setupCalibration:  http://clough42.com/go/double-extruder-calibrationThingiverse:  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:757864

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## sniffle

I was wondering when this would go live :-)

dual E3D V6's  This is the first alpha a little bit has changed on it, but it's still a live pics vs a cad drawings.

just had wiring to go


all together but in my hand


checking positioning of part cooling duct


dry fitting with the 2nd E3D while the other was still printing

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## pgx3s

Hi Clough42, are integrating those changes into the single version? Or can it allready br used with e3dv6?

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## voodoo28

Great job C42!...One thing I would suggest to add to your website instruction page is the use of the PTFE Tubing for the 1.75mm setp. I should have mine all setup by tonight..  :Smile:

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## clough42

> Great job C42!...One thing I would suggest to add to your website instruction page is the use of the PTFE Tubing for the 1.75mm setp. I should have mine all setup by tonight..


I have included a block bored out to work with the E3Dv6 1.75mm with the PTFE tube.  It's bored out to work with or without the fitting.

Are you looking for a PTFE tube version for the Hexagon?

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## clough42

Here are some photos of my setup.  The big difference between the release version and the one sniffle is running are the cable management tie points.



And here's a totally ridiculous test print.  It's a 1:10 short course truck tire.  The black material is ABS and the red is NinjaFlex.  Printed at 30mm/s with .2mm layers, it took 14 hours.  I photographed it on the 8x8 printer bed for scale.

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## jasay

Dang, and I just finished printing and dry fitting the itty bitty dual.  I guess the obvious questions to decide whether to redo it or not while waiting for motors are: How much am I going to print flexible material and how much x-axis travel is lost?  Only I can answer the first part.  Can you make sure I'm not off the deep end in my analysis of the second part?

My machine currently homes with the endstop as far right as it will go and the nozzle directly over the edge of the glass.  It travels roughly 238mm (10" model) before the carriage hits the left z axis parts, but there is another 10-12mm of glass that is not used.  Switching to dual extruders without doing anything else, the left nozzle will home at x=10 (itty bitty dual) or x~=13.5 (itty bitty flex) and the right nozzle will be the same distance off the glass in free air (-10 or -13).  At the far left position the left nozzle may actually use the currently dead glass, but the right nozzle will max around 228mm (itty bitty) or 225mm (flex).  So in either case the left nozzle will have basically the same travel I have now, but the right nozzle will limited.

If I can redesign the endstop I may be able to move the left nozzle back to the edge of the glass at home and so would get actually more x travel than I have now (hopefully the full advertised 250mm), but the right nozzle will still be limited to max x=228/225mm.  Can't say that I care much about the 3mm loss on the secondary nozzle for itty bitty double vs itty bitty flex, but will have to keep in mind that only the left nozzle can reach >225mm.

Does that sound right?

All of this assumes, of course, that the nozzles are centered on the carriage and that nothing else (motors, etc) interferes with the frame.

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## voodoo28

C42, what Marlin should we be using for the flex?

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## voodoo28

initial setup...waiting on new thermistor that broke...

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## jasay

> C42, what Marlin should we be using for the flex?


Based on the link at the bottom of the itty bitty flex page on his site I would say this one:
https://github.com/clough42/Marlin/t...3v_double_flex or if you prefer the direct link to the zip: https://github.com/clough42/Marlin/a...ouble_flex.zip

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## voodoo28

Thanks..i wasnt sure...cuz on his site it says coming soon.


> Based on the link at the bottom of the itty bitty flex page on his site I would say this one:
> https://github.com/clough42/Marlin/t...3v_double_flex or if you prefer the direct link to the zip: https://github.com/clough42/Marlin/a...ouble_flex.zip

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## jasay

> Thanks..i wasnt sure...cuz on his site it says coming soon.


Yeah.  The marlin configuration page does.  The itty bitty flex assembly page lists this one.

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## clough42

> Thanks..i wasnt sure...cuz on his site it says coming soon.


Whoops.  I'll fix that right now.

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## clough42

> Whoops.  I'll fix that right now.


Fixed.  Sorry about that.

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## voodoo28

no worries!
Im still trying to work out the positioning of the heater wires where they dont get in the way of the Z probe arm.
might need to route all wiring out through the back in order to get the probe free of any wires.




> Fixed.  Sorry about that.

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## clough42

> Dang, and I just finished printing and dry fitting the itty bitty dual.  I guess the obvious questions to decide whether to redo it or not while waiting for motors are: How much am I going to print flexible material and how much x-axis travel is lost?  Only I can answer the first part.  Can you make sure I'm not off the deep end in my analysis of the second part?
> 
> My machine currently homes with the endstop as far right as it will go and the nozzle directly over the edge of the glass.  It travels roughly 238mm (10" model) before the carriage hits the left z axis parts, but there is another 10-12mm of glass that is not used.  Switching to dual extruders without doing anything else, the left nozzle will home at x=10 (itty bitty dual) or x~=13.5 (itty bitty flex) and the right nozzle will be the same distance off the glass in free air (-10 or -13).  At the far left position the left nozzle may actually use the currently dead glass, but the right nozzle will max around 228mm (itty bitty) or 225mm (flex).  So in either case the left nozzle will have basically the same travel I have now, but the right nozzle will limited.
> 
> If I can redesign the endstop I may be able to move the left nozzle back to the edge of the glass at home and so would get actually more x travel than I have now (hopefully the full advertised 250mm), but the right nozzle will still be limited to max x=228/225mm.  Can't say that I care much about the 3mm loss on the secondary nozzle for itty bitty double vs itty bitty flex, but will have to keep in mind that only the left nozzle can reach >225mm.
> 
> Does that sound right?
> 
> All of this assumes, of course, that the nozzles are centered on the carriage and that nothing else (motors, etc) interferes with the frame.


The nozzles are centered.  If you only consider the bed area reachable by both nozzles, which is all you can use for two-material prints, you just lose the spacing width over a single extruder.  So with dual, you lose 20mm, and with the flex you lose 27mm--half on each side.  If you can physically increase the travel, you may be able to recapture some of the lost space by moving into areas that would have put the single nozzle off the glass.

For a single material print, you typically only lose half the spacing distance, because you can print out to the edge of the glass on one side.  In your case, since you have extra glass on the left, if you print with the left nozzle, you may not lose anything.

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## voodoo28

the space is very limited in the left side..

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## clough42

> initial setup...waiting on new thermistor that broke...


Did you decide to skip the ABL?  Looks like your heater wires are where the probe would be.

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## voodoo28

No, I had it all setup, but when it came time to install the extruder block to the carriage, the probe arm was in the way of the extrduer/carrige mounting hole. I could not get the screw into the hole without removing the servo and arm. Snowball effect...once the extruder was mounted i could not mount the probe arm cuz the hot end was in the way.. :Confused: 





> Did you decide to skip the ABL?  Looks like your heater wires are where the probe would be.

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## jasay

> The nozzles are centered.  If you only consider the bed area reachable by both nozzles, which is all you can use for two-material prints, you just lose the spacing width over a single extruder.  So with dual, you lose 20mm, and with the flex you lose 27mm--half on each side.  If you can physically increase the travel, you may be able to recapture some of the lost space by moving into areas that would have put the single nozzle off the glass.
> 
> For a single material print, you typically only lose half the spacing distance, because you can print out to the edge of the glass on one side.  In your case, since you have extra glass on the left, if you print with the left nozzle, you may not lose anything.


Alright.  I think that's what my long spiel was getting at but much clearer and more succinct.  Thanks.  

BTW, are any of the parts (idlers & pulleys probably, carriage sides & servo arm [hexagon] maybe) shared with IBDE?

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## voodoo28

C42, per your instructions.. The hot ends should be 20 mm apart..mine are 26 apart..i cant see how 20mm is a achievable without having the slanted inwards towards each other..this measuring from tip to tip

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## jasay

From the OP:




> Key features:
> 
> 
> Designed for Hexagon or E3Dv6 hot ends on 27mm centers


The older design of IBDE is 20mm.  Can't get to c42's website from work to see if the assembly instructions have a copy/paste error from the other design.

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## voodoo28

.the site says 20mm under installation instructions..


> From the OP:
> 
> 
> 
> The older design of IBDE is 20mm.  Can't get to c42's website from work to see if the assembly instructions have a copy/paste error from the other design.

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## sniffle

It's 25mm on center for the Flex E3D i would assume it's the same for the hexagon's

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## jasay

> No, I had it all setup, but when it came time to install the extruder block to the carriage, the probe arm was in the way of the extrduer/carrige mounting hole. I could not get the screw into the hole without removing the servo and arm. Snowball effect...once the extruder was mounted i could not mount the probe arm cuz the hot end was in the way..


What I ended up doing was assembling everything except the left (servo) side and back (wood) side of the carriage.  That gave access to the screws to mount the extruder to the printed carriage.  Then I put on the left side with the servo.  I'm still waiting for motors, but believe the entire assembly can then be mounted on the vertical wood piece of the carriage.

It does seem like this could make for some awkward extruder maintenance, but maybe C42 has a better way.

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## clough42

> No, I had it all setup, but when it came time to install the extruder block to the carriage, the probe arm was in the way of the extrduer/carrige mounting hole. I could not get the screw into the hole without removing the servo and arm. Snowball effect...once the extruder was mounted i could not mount the probe arm cuz the hot end was in the way..


I usually take out the two 16mm screws and take the left shelf support off if I need to get at the extruder mounting screw.

Hey!  The instructions should probably say to do that, huh?

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## clough42

> C42, per your instructions.. The hot ends should be 20 mm apart..mine are 26 apart..i cant see how 20mm is a achievable without having the slanted inwards towards each other..this measuring from tip to tip





> From the OP:
> 
> 
> 
> The older design of IBDE is 20mm.  Can't get to c42's website from work to see if the assembly instructions have a copy/paste error from the other design.





> .the site says 20mm under installation instructions..





> It's 25mm on center for the Flex E3D i would assume it's the same for the hexagon's


Ugh.  Yes.  It should say 27mm.  I have updated the pages I could find.  If you find that error anywhere else, please let me know.

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## clough42

> I usually take out the two 16mm screws and take the left shelf support off if I need to get at the extruder mounting screw.
> 
> Hey!  The instructions should probably say to do that, huh?


Okay, the instructions are updated.  On mine, I can also get a ball-end allen wrench into the screw head, but it's a little awkward, since the head won't back out, so you have to lift the extruder block while unscrewing.

On mine, I routed the heater and thermistor wires to the rear and brought them out through the cutouts in the corners of the shelf brackets.  That gets the wires clear of the servo probe.

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## clough42

Okay, I think I've answered all of the questions so far.  If I missed yours, let me know..

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## jasay

> Okay, the instructions are updated.


Thanks for doing not only the design work but going a step beyond most others and having such great instructions and being willing to maintain them.  That's pretty awesome.

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## TopJimmyCooks

> Thanks for doing not only the design work but going a step beyond most others and having such great instructions and being willing to maintain them.  That's pretty awesome.


+1 
Thanks, you're an asset to this hobby.

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## clough42

> +1 
> Thanks, you're an asset to this hobby.





> Thanks for doing not only the design work but going a step beyond most others and having such great instructions and being willing to maintain them.  That's pretty awesome.


You're welcome.

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## voodoo28

Thats a good idea, im going to try that out tonight and load up the firmware too. I want to bend those wires the least possible times to avoid any further breakage... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


> Okay, the instructions are updated.  On mine, I can also get a ball-end allen wrench into the screw head, but it's a little awkward, since the head won't back out, so you have to lift the extruder block while unscrewing.
> 
> On mine, I routed the heater and thermistor wires to the rear and brought them out through the cutouts in the corners of the shelf brackets.  That gets the wires clear of the servo probe.

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## voodoo28

Got all the wire routing sorted out! Easiest way was to assembly everything without both sides of the carriage shelf...then mount them both last...this allows you to place the wires where to cut out would end up. The only thing missing in these pics is the Insulation Strip which i'll put on last..

20150408_220316.jpg20150408_220449.jpg20150408_220415.jpg

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## clough42

> Alright.  I think that's what my long spiel was getting at but much clearer and more succinct.  Thanks.  
> 
> BTW, are any of the parts (idlers & pulleys probably, carriage sides & servo arm [hexagon] maybe) shared with IBDE?


Yes.  The large pulleys and the spacers are the same.  If you're using hexagon hot ends, the servo probe arm and the print cooling fan shroud are also the same.  And of course the hardware is all the same.  Depending on how much you cut up the insulator, you might be able to use it.  If not, I have spares available.

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## jasay

Yeah.  Got all assembled and found out the hard way that the carriage sides were different, doh (too stupid/lazy to just look at the stls). Managed to print the sides with the carriage just cantilevered out there.  Will have to redo calibration now that the shelf is properly supported, but so far so good.  Thanks again.  Will get some better pictures once I get around to sleeving the wires.
IMG_20150411_133801-M.jpg

Edit:  will probably also look at your start code for some wipe hints after the long ABL process.

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## OldSourKraut

clough42, THANK YOU!
I got the extruder finished up yesterday and calibrated using you STL's and calibration calculator, those 2 items made setting up the offsets extremely simple.
I am now printing my first successful 1.75mm 
ninjaflex test print. I'd almost given up on being able to use the spool of material until this update.
Thanks Again.

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## jasay

Everything was going well (still need to dial in retraction) but the extruder started skipping about 1.25 hours into the print.  The Nema 14 was too hot to hold for more than a few seconds.  Pretty sure it's not filament, calibration, etc. Think I will take your Nema 17 shroud to work tomorrow where I have soldiworks to see if I can make it fit the Nema 14.  I'm also planning on printing out a RAMPs fan holder in case the driver is also too hot.

Poor owl head.DSC_6349-M.jpg

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## clough42

> clough42, THANK YOU!
> I got the extruder finished up yesterday and calibrated using you STL's and calibration calculator, those 2 items made setting up the offsets extremely simple.
> I am now printing my first successful 1.75mm 
> ninjaflex test print. I'd almost given up on being able to use the spool of material until this update.
> Thanks Again.


Awesome.  I'm glad it's working for you.

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## clough42

> Everything was going well (still need to dial in retraction) but the extruder started skipping about 1.25 hours into the print.  The Nema 14 was too hot to hold for more than a few seconds.  Pretty sure it's not filament, calibration, etc. Think I will take your Nema 17 shroud to work tomorrow where I have soldiworks to see if I can make it fit the Nema 14.  I'm also planning on printing out a RAMPs fan holder in case the driver is also too hot.
> 
> Poor owl head.DSC_6349-M.jpg


Wow.  Mine barely get warm.  It sounds like your current setting may be too high.  The Pololu 1209 motors are rated for 1A, but I would recommend something like .8A to start.

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## jasay

Yeah.  Just checked the drivers and they were almost 0.5V (thought I checked them when I first built the machine, but maybe only the axis motors and Colin says 0.39-0.5 for the NEMA17 so they would have been top of the spec for those motors anyway).  Adjusted to 0.32V which if I understand correctly should be ~0.8A.  Will kick off a print when I get home from work to check.  Thanks for the reminder that these smaller motors may need different settings.

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## voodoo28

what would cause this to print like this?...the skirt in printed for both objects..but the second objects get printed outside of the skirt.. printing with S3d.

dual.jpg

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## jasay

voodo28, I haven't used s3d but am still stupid enough to talk out of my ass anyway.  Found this (https://www.simplify3d.com/support/t...ple-extruders/) article on their site.  Two thing I noticed: I don't see an extruder offset anywhere in their screenshots.  It may be expecting the firmware to handle the fact that the nozzles are located in two different locations.  Second, the skirt makes it look like the files didn't import correctly.  Are you using the separate stls files instead of the amf?  If so did you center the models as described in the "import and arrange" section?

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## voodoo28

yes both files are separate stls ..I have not messed with the offset in the software yet....since i was still calibrating from the steps on C42's site.

 here is what it looks like on S3D..

screen.jpg




> voodo28, I haven't used s3d but am still stupid enough to talk out of my ass anyway.  Found this (https://www.simplify3d.com/support/t...ple-extruders/) article on their site.  Two thing I noticed: I don't see an extruder offset anywhere in their screenshots.  It may be expecting the firmware to handle the fact that the nozzles are located in two different locations.  Second, the skirt makes it look like the files didn't import correctly.  Are you using the separate stls files instead of the amf?  If so did you center the models as described in the "import and arrange" section?

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## jasay

Well, I guess the output looks about right then (assuming that both nozzles have blue filament).

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## sniffle

> yes both files are separate stls ..I have not messed with the offset in the software yet....since i was still calibrating from the steps on C42's site.
> 
>  here is what it looks like on S3D..
> 
> screen.jpg



shift + click center and arrange

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## jasay

So after turning down the drivers the motors were basically room temp the entire 2 hours. DSC_6360-1-M.jpg
There was actually some skipping of the extruder motors only during infill.  My infill speed (60mm/s) is not terribly faster than perimeters (50mm/s).  May have to bump the current back up a bit (0.9A maybe).  Thanks for all the help so far Clough42!

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## clough42

> So after turning down the drivers the motors were basically room temp the entire 2 hours. DSC_6360-1-M.jpg
> There was actually some skipping of the extruder motors only during infill.  My infill speed (60mm/s) is not terribly faster than perimeters (50mm/s).  May have to bump the current back up a bit (0.9A maybe).  Thanks for all the help so far Clough42!


Which hot end and nozzle size are you using?  I routinely infill at 100mm/s with ABS, .4mm hexagons at 250C.  My motors current is at .8A.

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## clough42

> what would cause this to print like this?...the skirt in printed for both objects..but the second objects get printed outside of the skirt.. printing with S3d.
> 
> dual.jpg


I am using Slic3r, and it manages the extruder offset.  It is also possible to manage the offset in firmware, but it's a little more cumbersome to adjust, so I just do it in the slicer.

Even when you get the offset fixed, it looks like you're trying to print the two objects side-by-side.  What you want is to print a multi-material object.  The STLs have to be combined into a single multi-material object.  If you superimpose them, using the same coordinate system, one will print inside the other.

In Slic3r, there's an option under the file menu to combine into a multi-material file.  I have included the combined files in the AMF directory.  If S3D can't use the .amf.xml file, you'll need to figure out how to do this with S3D.

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## clough42

> voodo28, I haven't used s3d but am still stupid enough to talk out of my ass anyway.  Found this (https://www.simplify3d.com/support/t...ple-extruders/) article on their site.  Two thing I noticed: I don't see an extruder offset anywhere in their screenshots.  It may be expecting the firmware to handle the fact that the nozzles are located in two different locations.  Second, the skirt makes it look like the files didn't import correctly.  Are you using the separate stls files instead of the amf?  If so did you center the models as described in the "import and arrange" section?


Yeah...this seems to be the solution.

As for the offsets, there's a thread here showing how to do it with start GCODE:

http://www.forum.simplify3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=669

I have never messed around with firmware offsets.

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## jasay

> Which hot end and nozzle size are you using?


Hexagon Ø0.4mm hotend, Ø3mm PLA at 205ºC.   The hexagon heatsinks/fans seem to be working well as I can touch them right above the fiber/kapton insulation and they are quite cool.
I have Pololu 1209 NEMA14 motors.  Voltage on the A4988 drivers is 0.32-0.325VDC which if my math is correct is ~0.8A.  When it skips the entire belt path rotates backwards including the metal gear and motor shaft (presumably under the force of the filament pushing back on the hobbed bolt) so I don't believe there is a belt or gear anchoring issue.

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## clough42

> Hexagon Ø0.4mm hotend, Ø3mm PLA at 205ºC.   The hexagon heatsinks/fans seem to be working well as I can touch them right above the fiber/kapton insulation and they are quite cool.
> I have Pololu 1209 NEMA14 motors.  Voltage on the A4988 drivers is 0.32-0.325VDC which if my math is correct is ~0.8A.  When it skips the entire belt path rotates backwards including the metal gear and motor shaft (presumably under the force of the filament pushing back on the hobbed bolt) so I don't believe there is a belt or gear anchoring issue.


You might try a little higher temperature.  I typically run PLA at 225C in the .4mm hexagon.  There's something about the hexagon (and some other all-metal hot ends) that requires a little higher temperature.

My firmware fork is also using the standard Type 1 thermistor tables instead of the Makerfarm-modified type 6 tables.  This could make small differences at some temperatures.

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## jasay

That did seem to help.  Had a print in progress so bumped up the temp on the LCD and was even able to push the speed up to 150% (90mm/s infill) without any skips. Perimeters look good at an effective 75mm/s.   Will have to play more with the faster speeds, would be nice . . ..

I've run PLA at 190ºC for years, but you're right it's a different hotend.  Funny that hexagon worked just fine at 190-200ºC on the Makerfarm stock extruder though.

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## voodoo28

I think my printer has become possessed...!!

ABL was working perfectly 2 days ago...i turn it on today for the first time since and..the G28 and G29 commands make the z carriage move up instead of towards the bed..BUT...if i press the negative Z in Simplify3D controller it moves in the correct direction. So ,that means the wires are not inverted nor is the direction of the steppers in Marlin.  Ive reloaded Marlin several times from a fresh download and NADA!

What can it be???

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## clough42

The NEMA17 motor is much, much stronger (at least 3X) compared to the NEMA14.  Probably 4X once you count the gear ratio.  This allows the extruder to force the filament through the nozzle against a much higher back pressure.

The MakerFarm default Slic3r configs for the Hexagon 3mm/.40 all have the PLA temp at 225C.

James




> That did seem to help.  Had a print in progress so bumped up the temp on the LCD and was even able to push the speed up to 150% (90mm/s infill) without any skips. Perimeters look good at an effective 75mm/s.   Will have to play more with the faster speeds, would be nice . . ..
> 
> I've run PLA at 190ºC for years, but you're right it's a different hotend.  Funny that hexagon worked just fine at 190-200ºC on the Makerfarm stock extruder though.

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## clough42

> I think my printer has become possessed...!!
> 
> ABL was working perfectly 2 days ago...i turn it on today for the first time since and..the G28 and G29 commands make the z carriage move up instead of towards the bed..BUT...if i press the negative Z in Simplify3D controller it moves in the correct direction. So ,that means the wires are not inverted nor is the direction of the steppers in Marlin.  Ive reloaded Marlin several times from a fresh download and NADA!
> 
> What can it be???


Hmm...that is odd.

I have never used S3D, but I have the Google, so I won't let that stop me...

First off, when you move the Z axis, does the LCD agree?  When you move up 10mm in S3D and the carriage moves up 10mm, does the LCD Z position increase by 10mm?  If the LCD number goes the wrong way, then you have both the motor and S3D reversed.  Flip your motor connector (or invert the Z direction in the firmware) and flip the Z axis in S3d.  There's an option to flip the Z direction in Tools->Options->Machine to flip the build table axis.

If you've been messing with the Configuration.h file, you might also check to be sure your Z_HOME_DIR is still set to -1.

My recommended start GCODE lifts the bed a bit before deploying the probe.  If the printer thinks it's at a negative position, this could cause it to go up a lot.  This video shows my carriage raising a little before probing:




If none of this helps, share your Configuration.h file and I'll take a look.

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## voodoo28

after further testing M119 code...z endstop was always triggered no matter what i did..Finally i decided to check the terminals on the switch and sure enough one of the terminals were broken off...GEEZ!!

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## kablahz

Unrelated to the double extruder(btw awesome work cant wait to upgrade to the double extruder once I have some more experience under my belt), what feedrates are you running for homing/between probings? I have the 12" model and a g29 n3 probing takes forever, especially the z homing if the last print was tall. Thanks!

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## clough42

I believe I'm just uisng the defaults.  You can always just download the firmware and look at the Configuration.h file to see exactly how it's set up.

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## voodoo28

Finally got all the firmware and slicer settings squared away...here is the first dual color print with ABL. Next, need to fine tune slicer for ooze and retraction.

PLA Temp 200
Bed  Temp 70
Layer Height .1500
Speed 60 mm/s
10% infill
4 hrs to print

I think she's hot... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

20150421_080708.jpg

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## rhonal89

Wow!! That looks great. And very clean print aswell.




> Finally got all the firmware and slicer settings squared away...here is the first dual color print with ABL. Next, need to fine tune slicer for ooze and retraction.
> 
> PLA Temp 200
> Bed  Temp 70
> Layer Height .1500
> Speed 60 mm/s
> 10% infill
> 4 hrs to print
> 
> ...

----------


## voodoo28

One more print to share..Calibration is finally done..both extruders line up perfectly via Offsets in marlin. I have some Semi Flex (Ninjaflex) on way. Cant wait to try that out with a PLA simultaneously.

octo.jpg

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## clough42

> One more print to share..Calibration is finally done..both extruders line up perfectly via Offsets in marlin. I have some Semi Flex (Ninjaflex) on way. Cant wait to try that out with a PLA simultaneously.
> 
> octo.jpg


Awesome!  Let us know how that goes.  I've had good experiences with ABS and NinjaFlex.  I'll be curious to see how the SemiFlex works.

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## clough42

I've gotten a number of inquiries about NEMA 14 stepper motors for our double extruders.  We now have them available:  http://clough42.com/go/product/nema-14-stepper-motor

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## bryan.let

I'm currently waiting on a refurbished Lulzbot Taz and was looking to set it up with this extruder . Curious to know where I can find STL for x carriage mounting plate. Its looking like this mounts directly to the one for Makerfarm Prusa i3V but am not able to locate that STL. 

Has anyone else mounted this to a non Makerfarm Prusa i3v ? 
Any suggestions to mounting this extruder ?

Thanks 

Bryan

******************************************
UPDATE :: Found what I was needing right here 

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:305012

Will update with pics and once built!  :Smile:

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## kablahz

> Awesome!  Let us know how that goes.  I've had good experiences with ABS and NinjaFlex.  I'll be curious to see how the SemiFlex works.


Voodoo do you mind sharing some tips for dealing with retraction/oozing in Simplify3d? I just installed the flex extruder on my i3v 12" but am having trouble getting the second nozzle to stop oozing while also keeping it primed for when the tool change occurs. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

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## voodoo28

Sure thing...here are 2 screenshots of my setup for retraction..remember all machines are not created equal..but at least it will be a good starting point for you.

1.jpg 2.jpg





> Voodoo do you mind sharing some tips for dealing with retraction/oozing in Simplify3d? I just installed the flex extruder on my i3v 12" but am having trouble getting the second nozzle to stop oozing while also keeping it primed for when the tool change occurs. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

----------


## kablahz

> Sure thing...here are 2 screenshots of my setup for retraction..remember all machines are not created equal..but at least it will be a good starting point for you.
> 
> 1.jpg 2.jpg


Thanks for sharing. I am still surprised at how well your prints are coming out, kudos on that. Are you using custom tool change gcode or lowering the idle nozzle temperature to prevent oozing? I have only been troubleshooting the dual extruders for a week so I am sure I will eventually get it dialed in, just have to figure out how s3d manages tool change gcode with multiple processes, not sure which tool change gcode is called when changing process and subsequently extruders.

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## voodoo28

Nope, no special code...Never even crossed my mind to change temps while tool change..If you can set the retractions correctly..most of the oozing will be gone. Try printing at a slightly lower temp...my printing PLA at 220 sometimes 200.

Just noticed you are in Miami, where by?




> Thanks for sharing. I am still surprised at how well your prints are coming out, kudos on that. Are you using custom tool change gcode or lowering the idle nozzle temperature to prevent oozing? I have only been troubleshooting the dual extruders for a week so I am sure I will eventually get it dialed in, just have to figure out how s3d manages tool change gcode with multiple processes, not sure which tool change gcode is called when changing process and subsequently extruders.

----------


## kablahz

> Nope, no special code...Never even crossed my mind to change temps while tool change..If you can set the retractions correctly..most of the oozing will be gone. Try printing at a slightly lower temp...my printing PLA at 220 sometimes 200.
> 
> Just noticed you are in Miami, where by?


Hmm okay I will keep messing with my retraction settings. Yeah lowering the temp seemed like a good idea when I read that there are IF statements you can use in S3D in the tool change script section but It would probably be easier to just fix the oozing with retraction instead of adding a bunch on m109 and m104 commands.

I am down South in the Gables/Brickell area. PM if anything.

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## voodoo28

Ok cool..im in cooper city.

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## clough42

I have gotten some questions about the new Hexagon AO hot end.  It has a shorter heat sink and a larger aluminum block, so the fan shrouds don't fit.  Here is an experimental version of the shroud that should fit the Hexagon AO.  I have not tested it.  If you do, please let me know how it works.  I have no idea if it will provide enough cooling for the smaller heat sink.

TightDoubleHexagonAOShroud.STL

This version is for the Itty Bitty Double FLEX Extruder.  I have also posted one for the Itty Bitty Double Extruder in the other thread.

----------


## voodoo28

Here is a print done with Semiflex Ninjaflex.

7hrs...to print
Speed: 15mm/sec
Layer: .2
Temp: 225
Bed Temp: 35

20150527_094532.jpg20150527_094546.jpg20150527_094915.jpg20150527_094622.jpg

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## dunginhawk

Those are some very nice prints.  Voodoo, it doesnt look like you are suffering nearly as much as some of us with z banding issues... Do you mind sharing what you might have done to remedy that, assuming you ever had it?
thanks

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## voodoo28

Thanks!

Honestly, never had the Z banding issue...my z rods are stock and yes, they wobble at the top a bit.. I dont try to constraint them. Just them be.
I did make sure my entire assembly was square from the very beginning and belts are tight. I used calipers to make sure that both extrudes for the X carriage we even at both ends, then tightened it all up. 





> Those are some very nice prints.  Voodoo, it doesnt look like you are suffering nearly as much as some of us with z banding issues... Do you mind sharing what you might have done to remedy that, assuming you ever had it?
> thanks

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## tlankford01

I am having trouble uploading my pics but I have completed my extruder and have now completed my first non-calibration print.  Things are working great.  I have the wires routed for the left extruder out the front to fasten with the rest of the wires on the left side wire secure location.  On the right the wires are coming out the side to attach on the right side wire secure position.  I have some subtle calibration and slicing configuration work but all in all it is working as it should.

I have run into a strange situation though.  At the end of the print only the second extruder turns off.  I have tried several ways including special gcode in sli3er and looking for a fix in the firmware.  If anyone has ran into this issue and have a fix, I would be very grateful.

C42 thank you for an amazing build and even more fantastic documentation.

http://www.thingiverse.com/make:143948 Extruder

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:890832 First non-calibrtion print

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## Chadd

Just wondering what material and settings "temp, speed, layer height" you guys are using to print out the extruder parts? 

Thanks,
Chadd

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## voodoo28

Abs 2 mm  80%infil  230 temp. 40mm sec

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## Chadd

> Abs 2 mm  80%infil  230 temp. 40mm sec


Thanks for the info. How did your pulley gears turn out? I have printed a few up but don't have the belts to check the fit, are the belts the same pitch as the ones that come with the makerfarm kit?

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## rhonal89

Am using simplify3d and am having problem with extruder offset. How did you guys that encounter this problem fixed it. How did you found the correct number.

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## Forrest

Not sure what you mean ... what is the problem? did you follow these instructions http://clough42.com/instructions/dou...r-calibration/

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## clough42

40% infill should be plenty.  I print .2mm layers.  ABS at 250C in the hexagon.  Cooler in other hot ends like the JHead.




> Just wondering what material and settings "temp, speed, layer height" you guys are using to print out the extruder parts? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Chadd

----------


## clough42

Yes.  The pitch is 2mm--same as the ones that chime with the MakerFarm printers.




> Thanks for the info. How did your pulley gears turn out? I have printed a few up but don't have the belts to check the fit, are the belts the same pitch as the ones that come with the makerfarm kit?

----------


## clough42

I'm using Slic3r, which has offset settings.  If S3D still doesn't have them, you'll need to set the offset in firmware.




> Am using simplify3d and am having problem with extruder offset. How did you guys that encounter this problem fixed it. How did you found the correct number.

----------


## clough42

Sorry for the late reply...I've been traveling.

I haven't heard of that being an issue in general.

Most slicers have some facility for managing the preheat and cooldown of the extruders.  Slic3r tries to do this itself, but it also has logic that looks to see if your start and end GCODE is doing it and tries to stay out of the way.  I don't know if you're having some kind of trouble related to this logic.


Make sure that your slicer is set up so it knows you have two extruders.  Also check your end gcode to see if you have code in there to turn off both extruders.  Here's the code I use:


START:


; 8" i3 & i3v 3mm ABS for .40 Hexagon Double 2014-11-28
M42 P5 S255 ; light on
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; wait for bed to heat up
M104 S[first_layer_temperature_0] T0 ; start heating T0
M104 S[first_layer_temperature_1] T1 ; start heating T1
G1 Z5 F50 ; lift nozzle
G28 ; home X and Y axes
G29 ; auto bed level
G1 X0 F8000 ; move to side
G1 Y210 F8000 ; move off front
G1 Z0 ; Level for wipe
M109 S[first_layer_temperature_0] T0 ; wait for heat
M109 S[first_layer_temperature_1] T1 ; wait for heat
G90 ; absolute
T0 ; extruder 0
G92 E0
G1 E12 F50 ; extrude
G1 Y0 F8000 ; wipe
T1 ; extruder 1
G92 E0 ; reset extrude
G1 E12 F50 ; extrude
G1 E9 F50; retract
G1 X15 F8000 ; wipe





END:


M104 S0 T0 ; heat off T0
M104 S0 T1 ; heat off T1
G28 X0 ; home X axis
G28 Y0 ; home Y axis
M84 ; disable motors
M42 P5 S0 ; light off
M190 S0 ; wait for bed temperature to be reached





The text in brackets, like "[first_layer_temperature_0]" is macros for Slic3r so it can insert the settings.  The key code is the M104 S0 T0/T1 at the start of the end GCODE.  This is what turns off the extruder heaters.






> I have run into a strange situation though.  At the end of the print only the second extruder turns off.  I have tried several ways including special gcode in sli3er and looking for a fix in the firmware.  If anyone has ran into this issue and have a fix, I would be very grateful.

----------


## tsteever

Can't find a thread for the single itty bitty extruder if someone knows where that would be.

I have the single setup and it is a great design and I love the fact that I can reduce the weight moving around on the axis. I think my prints will be better. I say will be cause I am having some intermittent issues. I occasionally will get skipping. I have tried adjusting the stepper driver and I have to have it at .4 to avoid the skipping but the motor get crazy hot. Right now it is pushing 80 degrees C!

Not sure what is going on. The nozzle is clean and so is the heatbreak. They are new as of this print. I am using maker farm 3mm black PLA. and am printing at 190 with a E3dv6 .4mm hotend. 

What are some things I can try. I hate to go back to the stock extruder but if I can't get reliable printing I may have to. Are there better, stronger stepper motors than the ones Clough42 sells on his site?

----------


## voodoo28

here is the thread  http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ingle-Extruder
towards the end you'll find my remix for the E3d Hot end.


My setup would skip too..which is why i went to the Dual. I think it may have something to do with the pulley configuration. The dual Itty bitty has a different pitch for the pulley setup. I think its more effective..

I now have the Dual Flex setup on a 1.75 E3d Machine and another on a 3mm Hexagon Machine both working perfectly.




> Can't find a thread for the single itty bitty extruder if someone knows where that would be.
> 
> I have the single setup and it is a great design and I love the fact that I can reduce the weight moving around on the axis. I think my prints will be better. I say will be cause I am having some intermittent issues. I occasionally will get skipping. I have tried adjusting the stepper driver and I have to have it at .4 to avoid the skipping but the motor get crazy hot. Right now it is pushing 80 degrees C!
> 
> Not sure what is going on. The nozzle is clean and so is the heatbreak. They are new as of this print. I am using maker farm 3mm black PLA. and am printing at 190 with a E3dv6 .4mm hotend. 
> 
> What are some things I can try. I hate to go back to the stock extruder but if I can't get reliable printing I may have to. Are there better, stronger stepper motors than the ones Clough42 sells on his site?

----------


## tsteever

So you are using the dual but in a single setup? What is your stepper set at? There is part of me that thinks there may be something else going on. The main wheel is hard to turn at times which led me to think the nozzle was clogged or that the heat is too low. I don't remember the large wheel being that hard to turn. Does the size of the wheel make that big of a difference?

----------


## voodoo28

No, actually im using it with a Dual setup..but i don't see why you couldn't just mount one side only. Then when you are ready, you can setup the other side. Your gears should spin freely with no belt attached, obviously with the belts attached and the printer "OFF" there will be some resistance since now the motor is engaged. And yes it is quite hard to turn manually for extruding than the stock Greg Extruder...you have to turn it much much slower..

If you have the RAMBO board like i do..my Digital Pot is set to 135 for my 3mm setup....on my 1.75 setup it is set to 100 since it requires less pressure to extrude the thinner filament, hence it wont skip.


here is a pic of when i had the single setup

here is my Dual Flex setup 





> So you are using the dual but in a single setup? What is your stepper set at? There is part of me that thinks there may be something else going on. The main wheel is hard to turn at times which led me to think the nozzle was clogged or that the heat is too low. I don't remember the large wheel being that hard to turn. Does the size of the wheel make that big of a difference?

----------


## clough42

> Can't find a thread for the single itty bitty extruder if someone knows where that would be.
> 
> I have the single setup and it is a great design and I love the fact that I can reduce the weight moving around on the axis. I think my prints will be better. I say will be cause I am having some intermittent issues. I occasionally will get skipping. I have tried adjusting the stepper driver and I have to have it at .4 to avoid the skipping but the motor get crazy hot. Right now it is pushing 80 degrees C!
> 
> Not sure what is going on. The nozzle is clean and so is the heatbreak. They are new as of this print. I am using maker farm 3mm black PLA. and am printing at 190 with a E3dv6 .4mm hotend. 
> 
> What are some things I can try. I hate to go back to the stock extruder but if I can't get reliable printing I may have to. Are there better, stronger stepper motors than the ones Clough42 sells on his site?


There are stronger NEMA 14 stepper motors available.  In general, the stronger motors are longer and weigh more, but there's certainly plenty of margin on the single Itty Bitty Belted Extruder.

----------


## Bredmond

Quick question about the height adjustment process.

In the instructions on Clough42's website, it says to run G28 (autohome), then G29, and then move the nozzle to the center of the bed and adjust the height and enter any z offset adjustement.

When I have been adjusting the height I have been doing it from where the carriage is at the end of the G29 process.  Would this be causing issues with inconsistent height problems?

I am seeing problems lots of issues (way more than I was having with my stock Hexagon hot end setup) with first layer height.  Sometimes it is so close to the bed no plastic will extrude, other times the nozzle starts hitting on previously deposited plastic.

Any suggestions on what else might be affecting the height that I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Bill

----------


## clough42

> Quick question about the height adjustment process.
> 
> In the instructions on Clough42's website, it says to run G28 (autohome), then G29, and then move the nozzle to the center of the bed and adjust the height and enter any z offset adjustement.
> 
> When I have been adjusting the height I have been doing it from where the carriage is at the end of the G29 process.  Would this be causing issues with inconsistent height problems?
> 
> I am seeing problems lots of issues (way more than I was having with my stock Hexagon hot end setup) with first layer height.  Sometimes it is so close to the bed no plastic will extrude, other times the nozzle starts hitting on previously deposited plastic.
> 
> Any suggestions on what else might be affecting the height that I should be looking at?
> ...


If your bed is flat, the place you test shouldn't matter.  The bed isn't perfectly fiat, of course, so testing where you'll print is a good idea.

I have recently been struggling with the wood bed mount warping as the hot bed warms up and the heat soaks into the wood on my i3.  I was chasing what I thought was extrusion problems and it turned out to be a Z height stability problem.

I have been printing with my first layer the same height as the others (.2mm) because the leveling has worked so well, but if you're having trouble, you can try a thicker first layer, as is usual for RepRap.

----------


## rcdave

I have printed the alignment cube, and it's clear I have some ooze reduction work to do.  But after printing, I realized that I didn't have the objects completely lined up on slic3r. isn't there a to align the objects in slicer?

----------


## clough42

> I have printed the alignment cube, and it's clear I have some ooze reduction work to do.  But after printing, I realized that I didn't have the objects completely lined up on slic3r. isn't there a to align the objects in slicer?


How this works depends on which version of Slic3r you're using.  Older versions have a menu item to create a multi-material AMF.XML file from a set of STL files.  Newer versions of Slic3r allow you to load one of your STLs, right-click on the object and select Properties.  This dialog allows you to load additional STL files and assign them to particular extruders.

The tool assumes that all of the STLs for a multi-material object are already aligned in the same internal coordinate system.

You still need to calibrate your printer so you can tell Slic3r the relative positions of your extruder nozzles.  I have more detail here:

http://clough42.com/go/double-extruder-calibration
James

----------


## rcdave

I am printing the AMF version and my extruders are within a hundredth of a millimeter, and I think that's acceptable.  But I am also getting a hump in the middle of the part that isn't so good.  the hump in nearly 2x the rest of the part.  I wasn't concerned until I noticed it in other prints.  My gcode prints the perimeters first and then the infill which is a single line.  there is less gap than the bead it is trying to put down and it ends up on top of the perimiters, or atleast that's my current theory.  am I flowing too much plastic.  are my slic3r setting wrong?
IMG_6647.jpgIMG_6643.jpg

----------


## clough42

> I am printing the AMF version and my extruders are within a hundredth of a millimeter, and I think that's acceptable.  But I am also getting a hump in the middle of the part that isn't so good.  the hump in nearly 2x the rest of the part.  I wasn't concerned until I noticed it in other prints.  My gcode prints the perimeters first and then the infill which is a single line.  there is less gap than the bead it is trying to put down and it ends up on top of the perimiters, or atleast that's my current theory.  am I flowing too much plastic.  are my slic3r setting wrong?
> IMG_6647.jpgIMG_6643.jpg


Huh.  I haven't ever seen anything like that.  It's kind of hard fromn the photos to tell exactly what's happening.  Usually, you don't see the plastic pile up above the nozzle height like that.  It usually gets squished down and comes out the sides.  For it to pile up above the other layers, usually the nozzle has to move up.

----------


## svmagnum

I have 12"  Makerbot I3V with Rumba board and graphical display. 
Does anyone have same combination and can share their firmware for the itty double extruder? 
I am noob when it comes to modifying the software so need your help please.

----------


## kd7eir

Here on the left is a picture of a printed 2mm washer before I switched to the itty bitty dual flex, and one the right after I switched. Any idea what's going on? ALL of my prints are coming out like this now. I uploaded the firmware, followed by M502 and M500. I printed a servo spacer and it came out 1/4" thick!

----------


## kd7eir

OK, lowering the extrusion multiplier is making a huge difference. I have used an extrusion multiplier of .90 in S3D forever and gotten great results. I'm down to .50 and getting ready to go a bit lower yet to get the right print.

----------


## clough42

> OK, lowering the extrusion multiplier is making a huge difference. I have used an extrusion multiplier of .90 in S3D forever and gotten great results. I'm down to .50 and getting ready to go a bit lower yet to get the right print.


I responded in your other thread as well.  Check your microstep settings.  The 615 value assumes you're running 1/16 microsteps.  If you have a RAMPS board, make sure you have all three jumpers installed under the driver.

----------


## kd7eir

I have all three jumpers installed, this board is just acting very strange. I may switch it out

----------


## kd7eir

So, in desperation I decided to take my RAMPS board apart and start all over. 


And then I see that I had three jumpers on every stepper drive EXCEPT the extruder.


Mea Culpa!


Thank you to everyone that helped me!

----------

