# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  My Prusa i3v 10" Build  ===  Photos, Comments & Questions

## jtice

After looking into 3D Printers for over a year now, I finally took the plunge and bought one.
I went with the Prusa i3V 10" due to its large build volume, large following, and pricing.
The instructions and videos that Makerfarm have for the printer are excellent, they make it quite easy, just follow along and take your time.
I lost track of the time it took to build it, I worked on it all afternoon after work, and on the third afternoon I was printer. But I would guess a solid 12 hours.

*Comments*
For the most part the printer is very well designed and goes together well. I had to do very little adjustment to the wooden parts at all.
The plastic printed parts for the extruder did require some clean up, filing and sanding here and there, but weren't horrible.

As others have mentioned, the extruder motor can be tough to get bolted on, the gears are VERY tight.
I highly suggest once you have the extruder assembly built, before you mount it on the printer, rotate the gears back and forth by hand for a while.
I had the extruder motor jam on me twice on my first print, I then worked the gears by hand back and forth for a while and tried again, its been fine once the gears wore in a bit.

I would highly recommend that you have someone print you out the bracket to move the Z end stop !!!!!
*https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:437330*
I know that a big part of this is being able to print things for yourself, like printer mods, and it did feel great that I could print my own.
But you will save ALOT of headache if you have one when you goto build your printer. The stock design is just horrible.

I am using the stock firmware that came on the RAMPS, but did notice its NOT for a 10". Its for the 8"
As far as I have heard, its exactly the same, its just the max travel distances are different.
You can change them manually, or install the 10" firmware.
*Download Link for 10" Firmware*

*Build Photos
*You can see photos of the build here.
*http://jtice.smugmug.com/3D-Printing...g-Prusa-i3v-10

Timelapse of the build.
http://youtu.be/hfYOq0PZ1qQ*

*My First Prints
*You can see photos of my prints here.
*http://jtice.smugmug.com/3D-Printing/Misc-3D-Prints/*
The first prints I did were 1cm cubes. I was pretty amazed that they actually worked.
I expected my first few prints to be completely messed up and useless, but thats not been the case.
Next was the Z end stop bracket, thumb knobs for bed level adjustment bolts, and a control knob for the RAMPS.
I have only done ABS so far, with a glass bed and hair spray.
I have had no lifting, parts are stock to the glass really well, almost hard to pop off at times.

I would greatly appreciate any comments or suggestions you have on my prints, and how to make them better.
I know that I need to still get the nozzle to start closer to the glass on the first layer.
Seems the middle of the glass is sliiiiiiiiiightly lower than the edges. I need to level and adjust the Z stop to suit the middle of the glass better.

*Questions*
*1.* What is the proper procedure for changing filament? (without a connected PC)
      I could not find anything on the RAMPS menu like I have seen in vids of the Makerbots, where you can tell it you want to change filament, and it walks you through it.
What I did was, used the Preheat for ABS feature in the RAMPS menu. Once hot, I pulled out the black filament, and inserted the blue filament.
I then rotated the large extruder gear by hand until blue filament was coming out of the nozzle.

*2.* I notice that when my printer starts a print, it goes to home like I see other printers do, it raises up a bit, then moves to the center of the bed to start the print.
      It does not extrude any filament during that operation, the extruder gears do not turn.
It then prints what I think is called the rim? around the part first, when it starts this process the extruder gears are turning.
But. it does not start extruding filament till its at least half way done making the rim.
Once it starts the print it seems ok, but shouldnt this start sooner? Sometimes it barely starts extruding before it starts the actual printing of the part.

*3.* What do you think caused the open parts on my blue control knob?
      I think it might have been printing a bit too hot at the top layer? Or maybe I need a fan blowing on the part as it prints? (though I thought that wasnt needed for ABS)

*4.*  Is there a way (without a connected PC) to raise the extruder?
      There have been a few times where it would have been nice to have a way to tell the printer to raise up on the Z axis so that I can access the print bed better.

*5.*  When I add a second fan to blow on the part as its printed, I know where to hook it to the RAMPS, but how do you actually control it?
       I use Cura as my slicer, hope to stick with it, it seems nice and I find it easy to use. Is there a way in Cura to tell it how to operate that second fan?
Such as not running the fan while the first layer or two prints, or leaving it off completely when printing ABS?

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## printbus

1.  You're using the same procedure I do, except I'm usually controlling the extrusion from Repetier-Host.

2.  How soon it starts to extrude depends on how much filament might have oozed out the nozzle since you extruded last.  A lot of that can improved on in your slicer start g-code, as far as where the nozzle is x-y-z, how much it extrudes in free-air to "prime" the extruder, etc.

3.  Have you ran through calibration of your esteps and compensated for actual filament diameter?  If not, you really need to get that done before judging quality of your prints.  Looks like your bed isn't very level, based on the different first layer appearance on two of the thumbwheels.  

4.  You can raise the extruder (Z-axis) from the LCD, but only up to 1mm increments. For some reason the menu doesn't allow Z to be adjusted from the 10mm setting.  

5.  Cura can control the fan. You can tell it whether it should be dealing with cooling at all, at what height you want the fan to turn on, and what min and max speed settings you want it to adjust between.

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## jtice

Thanks for the help.
I will look into the "priming" settings in the start code, its not a huge deal, but could be better.

I have checked the filament dia and entered that into Cura, but I have not done any tests yet where you tell it to extrude a certain length of filament, and then check what it actually did.
I will do that tonight before I do another print.

The bed is actually pretty level, those thumb wheel pics are misleading.
I let the first layer of the first knob print, then when it started the second knob, I actually pressed down on the extruder assembly slightly.
Yea, probably not the best idea, but I wanted to see what effect it would have and if I needed to go even lower on my Z stop, which I do.

I noticed the section on the RAMPS for moving the axis by certain amounts, but didnt see where I told it WHAT axis I wanted to move, probably just missed it, I will look at that again.

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## gmay3

jtice, congrats on your build!

1. I do the same process as my home boy printbus does with a connected pc. If you want to do it without a pc, you are going about it the right way. The only thing I can suggest is to disable the steppers in your ramps menu before turning the extruder gears by hand. 

2. I believe this is known as a "skirt". In addition to what printbus said (which sounds exactly like the case you describe), sometimes you will find that the skirt (or first layer) doesn't print completely because the leveling of your bed could be off on one or all sides and the nozzle is too close or touching the glass. 

3. I looked at your prints and I think they look great except for those gaps which will probably go away after you calibrate the extrusion. Calibrate using this thread: *http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...nd-Proportions* then give yourself an internet high-five!  :Smile: 

4. You'll make your life a lot easier with a laptop or pc next to your printer for print control. I wonder if there's a way to send gcode commands over wifi to something you plug into the the usb port on the RAMPS board or by using a wifi sd card. If anyone has any ideas, I'd definitely be interested in trying to figure it out together!

5. I believe slic3r also has this option under advanced options, just FYI.

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## AbuMaia

> I wonder if there's a way to send gcode commands over wifi to something you plug into the the usb port on the RAMPS board or by using a wifi sd card. If anyone has any ideas, I'd definitely be interested in trying to figure it out together!


I've heard of someone trying one of those WIFI SD cards in their printer. They found out they're made for accessing photos on the card from a computer to download, you can't upload files to the card. At least, the guy I read said he couldn't get any gcode files to upload to the card.

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## gmay3

Ah ok, well that's definitely good to know!

I bet there has got to be a way to move the axes in a more user friendly way via the firmware already build in to the RAMPS board. I haven't tinkered much in the firmware yet but I might soon!

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## printbus

It's off topic, but one proven approach to going wireless to add a Raspberry Pi microcontroller on the printer running OctiPi/Octiprint. I think it's dacb that has most recently done this.

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## dacb

Congrats.

1. As you describe.  I use octopi on a raspberry pi connected to the printer so about half the time I run it via an ipad and half I manually extrude.
2. Before each print, after preheat and before the lay down of any plastic, I clean any ooze of the head.  If it look likes there is a lot, I will occasionally manually prime the head.  More often than not, however, I'll just let the skirt lines do that.  If you switch to Cura (I did) make sure you turn on the skirt, probably good to go for a double line just to make sure you not only get the head primed but also get the skirt fully printed.
3. Definitely calibrate the E-steps.  Looks like there is too little material coming out.  IIRC, the default makerfarm firmware had the E-steps set to 843 and I had to bring mine up quite a bit.
4. I definitely recommend getting something plugged into the printer.  As I mentioned, I have a Raspberry Pi running OctoPi.  This means I can access the printer from a web page anywhere in my house (and via a VPN at work).  OctoPi also supports a web cam and it will make movies during the print. It offers a G-code terminal in addition to a set of buttons and pull downs for doing normal xyz navigation, extruder control, fans, tool changes, etc.  It is really nice to be able to control the printer from an iPad anywhere in the house and beyond.
5. As printbus said, Cura offers full control for this, though I have found great success with just the defaults (start height and 100% duty cycle).

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## usarmyaircav

dacb, could you share an ebay link to a comparable raspberry pi setup?  I won't be ready for a while, but I can see myself wanting this.

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## dacb

Here are some instructions I whipped up: Using a Raspberry Pi + Octopi to manage your printer

I'll post a list of hardware in the second post of that thread.

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## jtice

I did the Esteps calibration today, told it to extrud 100mm and it was only off by 0.66mm
I thought that seemed pretty good, but made the proper adjustment anyway.
Printing out a train whistle now as a test, 
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:77183
Then I think I will print a mount for a second cooling fan for when I do PLA.
I am thinking about printing this one and seeing if I can mount if on the side of the extruder.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:351280

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## dacb

My advice: before you leave ABS, print a couple fan shrouds for your hot end and a whole new extruder set (maybe do the gears in PLA).

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## jtice

Printing a fan shroud now, since I figure I will need that for PLA.
Just did the train whistle in ABS, was fine till about 80% then one end lifted off the bed about 2 to 3mm
I just let it keep printing, it pressed it down on that side as it ran over it, 
it certainly wasnt as nice of a print from that point on, but it at least finished and its a working whistle.

What are the main things I should do to prevent that?
I used a bit more hair spray on this shroud print, will see how it does, though its a smaller piece, shouldnt have as much of an issue.

Next I will be printing some spare extruder parts.

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## dacb

I went through this also.  Here are some of the things I found that helped:
1. In Cura, use a brim.  Slic3r may have a similar option, but I abandoned it before I found one.
2. Bed temperature 110C.  I tried higher and lower and settled here. YMMV depending on your spool of ABS.  Mine was glow in the dark green from MakerFarm.
3. Clean glass with acetone/ABS slurry spread over it.  Clean the glass well with acetone, isopropyl (high proof), or some other solvent.  Take a glass jar and your failed ABS prints, tailings, trimming, etc. and put them in there with acetone.  You want a thick slurry.  Some people call this ABS juice.  The ABS will dissolve in the acetone.  Spread the slurry over your bed (I used paper towels, my fingers, spatulas, etc. and found they all work if you leave a thin layer behind) and preheat it.  The acetone evaporates (don't inhale) and you are left with a very thin layer of ABS all over your bed. If you are auto bed leveling, be careful not to make the layer too thick or it will bork your print. This acts like an uber brim and helps pieces not warp.  When you remove the piece, leave any dried out slurry behind and spread some new slurry around.  Once every half dozen prints or so, clean the glass with acetone and start over.  I loved printing with ABS, but the smell was too much for my wife and kids.

This meant I had to trim all of my ABS pieces (remove the brim), but they stuck to the glass, did not warp, and had a nice glossy finish against the glass.

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## jtice

Thanks alot for the input.

Brim, yep that looks like a great solution, I would rather have to trim and clean up parts rather than have them lift and fail.
I am running 90C on the bed now, I will up that to 100C and try that, and start using brim, if thats not enough I will try the slurry.
The hair spray has stuck really really well, except that whistle.
But, that was the largest part I have done, so it was effected more.

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## dacb

> Then I think I will print a mount for a second cooling fan for when I do PLA.
> I am thinking about printing this one and seeing if I can mount if on the side of the extruder.
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:351280


The Print Cooling Fan System for MakerFarm Prusa i3 and i3v was designed to work with this hex cooling shroud: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:335613 . Clough42 did some excellent work with these and the auto bed leveling setup I run and recommend: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:335632

If you are going to keep the stock shroud, you can try getting the funnel to mount at the correct position by tuning the parameters of these: 
* http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:464868
* http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:463758

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## jtice

That is the fan shroud I just printed, it was really hard to get off the bed. 90F with hair spray.
Its not bad, but you can see some rough areas on it, I still need to figure out the cause of that.

I uploaded pics of the shroud and the whistle I did.
The first layer of the whistle turned out excellent, just a shame it ended up lifting.
http://jtice.smugmug.com/3D-Printing...ints/i-HQvg3Nv

I think I will go ahead and add that extruder setup that Clough42 did, people seem to like it, and it will work with that fan well.
Though I did like the idea of putting a fan on the side so i could see the extruder better.
But, I need to look into that auto leveling setup, Does it really work that well?
Do you just basically manually level the bed once to get it pretty close, then just run auto leveling each time you print from then on?
So far, leveling is by far the PITA of all this. Seems to change from print to print alot.
I also think leveling it with the bed heated helps, I think it effects it just enough to matter.

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## gmay3

jtice, in addition to the brim which is definitely necessary on some prints, try to lower your z endstop a little and make sure that first layer is squashing slightly on the glass to get a little better adhesion. This is something to try if you are finding that all of your prints are lifting off the bed.

As far as the brim goes a little goes a long way. Just making it's width 2mm made for a successful print after a couple failed prints without it.

Good work on calibrating the input extrusion by calibrating the esteps! I think you should definitely do the second step on the calibration thread which has you calibrate the output of the extrusion by printing a solid block of plastic and checking if the top is perfectly flat or not.

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## jtice

The whistle that I printed actually had my best first layer yet, it was smashed down really good, the bottom of the whistle is really smooth.
Yet, it still lifted.  :Frown:   But as I said, it was by far my largest print so far. 
Everything I am printing is sticking to the glass REALLY well. The fan shroud was pretty difficult to get loose, even after I let the bed cool a bit.
I just need to let it cool a bit more, Im too excited and want to handle the print!  :Smile: 

I will look through the calibration thread more and do what else it says.
Also going to look into this auto leveling alot more, that seems like it would be well worth it.
I can get the bed level, thats not a huge deal, its the Z stop thats tough, and I even have the new Z endstop bracket installed.
I actually use it to get the bed close, then use the bed adjustments to get it Really close. (I have a spring on the home corner as well)

Added photos of the fan shroud, it came out pretty good, few odd rough places here and there.
The bracket came out really nice though (not pictured)
http://jtice.smugmug.com/3D-Printing...ints/i-wCv85q5

Thanks again for all the help guys, couldnt do it without it!

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## AbuMaia

I had trouble with parts lifting even when using a brim and ABS juice. I recently saw some people talking about using an Elmers glue stick, and having one on hand from doing papercraft, I tried it. I don't think I'll be using anything else from now on. I get the best adhesion ever with the glue stick than with hairspray, tape, or ABS juice. It is a little nerve-wracking hearing the part pop off the glass as it cools, it sounds as if the glass has broken (which did happen to me once during a print when I used blue tape, hairspray and ABS juice at the same time).

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## printbus

> ...Though I did like the idea of putting a fan on the side so i could see the extruder better.


Just to show you it can be done, I had temporarily installed the clough42 print cooler on the left side. The shroud mount was bolted onto a piece of hobby plywood shaped to follow the X-carriage, except it went higher. You can't see it in the picture, but there's a hole in the plywood below the shroud mount that was used with the existing screw location on the left side of the X-carriage.  

I say this was temporary in that I only used it until I could get a blower system (not a fan) in place, also mounted to the side. I found the airflow lacking with a shrouded axial fan, since axial fans aren't designed to operate with the backpressure that a shroud creates.

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## jtice

Glue stick, hmm yea might try that, I dont like the idea of spraying hair spray around the printer anyway.

Nice side mount,  I think I will do something like that for now.
Once I have some more parts printed and have the complete Clough42 shroud, auto level, etc. all ready to go I will just install all that at once.
But for now your solution would let me print PLA correctly for a while.

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## dacb

> I say this was temporary in that I only used it until I could get a blower system (not a fan) in place, also mounted to the side. I found the airflow lacking with a shrouded axial fan, since axial fans aren't designed to operate with the backpressure that a shroud creates.


So true.  I have a blower fan incoming for experimenting.

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## jtice

Twice now I have had the filament snap in the extruder.
I had the filament skip once (printing in air), so I tightened the extruder up some.

I am hearing a good bit of clicking/cracking noises, I cant tell if its the stepper motor, or the extruder itself.
I THINK its the extruder itself though.

Read up on it some, but seems very random and spread out with issues.
The prints are turning out pretty well at least, just hate the risk of failure during a print.

Printing ABS at 230c @ 50mm/sec
Sometimes turn the Prusa up to 103% to 112% but it does it at 100% also.
Any ideas?

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## dacb

> Twice now I have had the filament snap in the extruder.
> I had the filament skip once (printing in air), so I tightened the extruder up some.


It snapped below the bobbed bolt but before the metal collar for the hot end?  What brand of filament are you using?

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## jtice

Far as I can tell, yes.
Once it snapped and curled the filament out the side of the extruder right below the bearings.
The second time it looks like it folded over right above the hole in the top of the plastic extruding housing, right below the bobbed bolt.

The first two days of printing did not do this.
Its still printing decent, but definately sound different. Just hear alot of little clicks and crackles, and at times, its a crack louder than the heat bed relay clicking.

I thought about raising the temp, seeing if it made it easier to extrude.
I pulled back the tensioner and pushed the filament in by hand with the head at 230c
It took some pressure, but wasnt all that hard to do.

Using Winbo ABS

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## dacb

I don't suppose you could youtube a video of the sounds?  You sure the noise and the filament breaking are related?

When I've had it break inside the extruder it was because the filament was tangled on the spool and providing too much resistance.

How tight are your screws for the extruder idler block?  Could it be that the hobbed bolt is digging too deep into the filament?

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## jtice

Sure, I will make a video tomorrow for you.

No, Im not sure of anything, isnt that obvious yet?  :Wink: 
I read about the extruder motors clicking, but I dont think thats it, the gears dont stop turning or anything, motor is warm, but not hot.

Spool seems to be unrolling pretty freely. I dont think thats it, since its breaking below the feed bolt.

I will also get pics of some filament I pulled out of the extruder, that has marks in it from the hobbed bolt, so you can get an idea of how tight I have it.
I think I have it so the bolt is a mm or two from being flush with the hole on the opposite side of the extruder, if that makes sense.

Also, 
Is there a good thread, blog, etc. for examples of print issues, and what their causes/solutions are?
Something maybe with photos of a print issue, then a description of what causes it?

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## printbus

On the print issues & causes, I've seen some starts at it but none that were complete. Here's the most complete one I am aware of - http://reprap.org/wiki/Print_Trouble...ictorial_Guide .  I just wish they printed in something other than white since detail is hard to photograph on white prints.  

On the snapping filament, how brittle is the filament? Does it break when you bend it by hand?  I'm not sure whether this is a good/bad sign, but it would give an idea of what you're working with.  

Assuming it's not caused by the filament above the hot end getting soft from temperature, one possibility is that repeated retraction is weakening spots in the filament. This would make the filament easier to fold over and explain why some prints go fine without issue.  What are your slicer's retraction settings?  I used to have frequent problems with the hobbed bolt cutting into the filament until I backed off on how often the slicer was performing a retraction.  Increasing the minimum extrusion after a retraction was part of the "fix".  Even with that, I turn retraction off on some prints where I know the printer will be moving to different parts of a layer, adding just dabs or short lengths of extrusion at each area.  One roll of filament was especially bad with the hobbed bolt cutting into the filament, until I finally noticed there were small bumps in the filament that wouldn't pass into the hot end.  They were small enough that I couldn't see them - I just happened to feel one when I fed the filament through my fingers to reload the extruder.  Unrolling a length of the spool, I could then find many similar bumps.  I spent many hours tracking that one down.  

On the sound, I'm assuming you have no layer slippage in your prints that would happen if the X or Y belts skip a gear tooth.  What is your retraction speed set to in the slicer? No one else has concurred with it, but I found reducing it from the MakerFarm default of 30mm/Sec to clough42's recommendation of 10 mm/sec eliminated a pretty hefty thwack sound from my extruder.  If the sound happens often enough, try listening through a length of hose held to different areas of the extruder in an attempt to locate it.  As I worked through my i3v to eliminate noise, I was left with sort of an annoying creak in the extruder.  The hose trick narrowed it down to the area of the idler bearing. You could also try marking the large gear with a Sharpie pen when you hear it so you can see if the sound always occurs at the same spot in the large gear/hobbed bolt rotation.  

Such fun.

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## jtice

Retraction Speed: 25mm/s
Distance: 3mm
Min Travel: 1.5mm
Min Extrusion Before Retraction: 0.02mm
Enable Combining: checked
Z Hop When Retracting: 0mm
Travel Speed: 150mm/s
Print Speed: 50mm/s
Winbo ABS Filament from eFilament
230c

Not noticed any belt slip. I had a few issues with the teeth on the small gear I printed, but my guess is that it was printing too fast, 
and the teeth were still soft as it made it next pass and it was warping them out of shape a bit. I will include pics of that also.
But I dont think its what you said, a shift in an axis due to a belt slip. Since half the teeth look fine, it was mainly one side I think.

The Filament is not brittle at all, you can bend it a good ways before it tries to snap.
I will look over the printer tonight, make sure everything looks good, everything is tight.
Then I will upload a video of the noises, and photos of some hobbed bolt marks on my filament.

I will then try changing the restraction speed from 20 to 10mm/s as you suggest.

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## printbus

I would reduce the retraction distance to something like 1mm.  Cura defaults to a high distance value since Ultimaker uses a Bowden extruder that requires it.  1mm to 1.5mm should be adequate for most filaments on a direct extruder.  If I understand the min extrusion before retraction setting, the default of 0.02mm seems awfully small. Combined, the settings will reduce the number of times retractions can cause the same section of filament to be rolled past the hobbed bolt. 

BTW - my settings are being used with 1.75mm filament. 3mm could require something different, if that's what you have.

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## jtice

Did a few more prints last night, and things seem to be a bit better.

I took alot of the advice here.
Lowered the retraction speed and distance. Also been playing around with temps a bit, went from 230 to 234
I dont get nearly as many loud cracks and creaks anymore, just little ones now.
It seems to do it when the extruder starts and stops alot very quickly, not during retractions.

I have not got around to the second calibration test yet, where you print the solid cube.
But I was playing around with the tune section on the RAMPS.
I adjusted the flow from 100 to 104 and I think it helped with filling gaps better, before my fill seemed to be broken up a good bit.
I also think it was making my layers stick a bit better, but this still needs tweaked.
I am having some layer separation  :Frown:    not during the prints, so I dont think its really an ABS contracting issue.
The parts are just weak, I can break them along the layers in spots.
The last print I did was at 104 flow, 234 head and 96 bed, that seemed to help some.

Here is the pic of the hob marks on the filament. Though, I have it sliiiightly looser than this now.


I will upload a vid today of the "creaking" noise I still have.

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## jtice

Here is the video of the creaking.
3 or 4 times you will hear a higher pitched creak/tick. Thats the relay kicking on and off.



Also been checking motor temps, all seem fine, the extruder motor gets fairly warm, but can still comfrotably hold my hand on it.
It reads about 43c, X and Y motors read about 40c
My heat bed reads about 75c at the edges and about 86c toward the middle when set to 90c, guess thats normal.

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## gmay3

> I also think it was making my layers stick a bit better, but this still needs tweaked.
> I am having some layer separation    not during the prints, so I dont think its really an ABS contracting issue.
> The parts are just weak, I can break them along the layers in spots.


Hmm, I've had these issues with PLA which I'm not very experienced in printing, but not with ABS. In addition to temperature tweaks, you also could try slicing at very slightly different layer thicknesses as an example, instead of .20mm maybe .22 or .19. Maybe there is a region between the mathematics of the slicing software and the steps of the z motors that is not meshing completely.

I think what could be more likely is that the blend of polymers in this specific ABS filament may not be the most ideal for 3d printing. From what I've heard, ABS plastic is a generic "recipe" that can vary greatly between manufacturers. I have only used Makerfarm filament so far, and I feel like their ABS is very good quality since I haven't had any filament issues so far. If you continue to have these issues it might be worth trying a roll from them or even another vendor to see if this could be your issue.




> Here is the pic of the hob marks on the filament. Though, I have it sliiiightly looser than this now.
> 
> I will upload a vid today of the "creaking" noise I still have.


I think even just seeing the picture it says to me that your hobbed bolt is biting into the filament too much. Those teeth marks look like they are digging into the filament about 35-40% where you would probably want 10-15%. When I have reversed my filament the depth of the hobbed bolt markings are only around .2 mm max.

Like you said, I think loosening those two screws that control this amount of "bite" could help. I think the general mindset is that they should be as loose as possible without allowing the filament to slip.

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## printbus

I agree with gmay that the hobbed bolt is cutting into the filament way more than it should have to.  The deep cuts will weaken the filament, making it easier to fold instead of extruding. Run the filament back and forth a few times for closely-spaced retractions and you'll definitely have a weakness in the filament.  

The 0.20mm layer height shouldn't be an issue. Some printers (like Printrbot) require strange optimal layer height values since they use Imperial threaded Z-rods and the layer height values have to compensate for the Imperial-to-metric conversion.  0.22, 0.20, and 0.18mm would all come up with integer step counts to achieve those layer heights on the i3v. 0.21 and 0.19 do not. (You can play with the optimal layer height calculator at http://prusaprinters.org/calculator/).   

jtice, you're not indicating how much force is required to break the layers apart. This may not be unusual for any print based on FDM.  With ABS, if I don't have a thick enough wall or an infill, I tend to get layer separation as the print cools.  If I know I'm going to need to drill holes in the finished print, I know to still use ABS though since the drill bit will tend to shear the layers apart in PLA more than with ABS.

On the tick sound, it's hard to say if it's similar to what I had.  Somewhere in the following I fixed mine:  1) My hobbed bolt is a loose fit in the bearings. I have some kapton tape wrapped around the hobbed bolt where the bearings ride to help keep the bolt from possibly slapping back and forth inside the bearings.   2) the inner races of the bearings of the hobbed bolt might have been binding up on the plastic of the extruder base.  My original install had the taped hobbed bolt very snug inside the bearings, and I had a theory that the binding of the bearings would stick and break free, stick and break free, etc. with a click each time.  In my latest rebuild, I reduced the amount of tape on the hobbed bolt so it isn't as tight in the bearings and didn't tighten the hobbed bolt up as much so the bearings aren't pulled as tight to the base.  3) I added a bit of lubricant on the extruder base where the bearing inner races ride so they would be less likely to "stick".  4) I'm also now running with new bearings.

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## gmay3

> The 0.20mm layer height shouldn't be an issue. Some printers (like Printrbot) require strange optimal layer height values since they use Imperial threaded Z-rods and the layer height values have to compensate for the Imperial-to-metric conversion.  0.22, 0.20, and 0.18mm would all come up with integer step counts to achieve those layer heights on the i3v. 0.21 and 0.19 do not. (You can play with the optimal layer height calculator at http://prusaprinters.org/calculator/).


Ah it makes sense now that this is the reason. I think I was reading this from an older slic3r calibration guide which suggested this could be an issue. Thanks for the correction printbus!

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## printbus

> Ah it makes sense now that this is the reason. I think I was reading this from an older slic3r calibration guide which suggested this could be an issue. Thanks for the correction printbus!


We'll just call it a clarification and not a correction.  You do see the optimal layer height issue brought up a lot. IMO, I think it's good for everyone to understand the reason for the possible issue. For me, it was quite enlightening to experiment with different threads and layer heights in the prusa calculator.  I thought about sending Colin a thank you for using metric rods after I did that.

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## usarmyaircav

Printbus, why did you decide to use new bearings?

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## printbus

Putting in new bearings was part of a brute-force, balls-to-the-wall, do-everything-I-could-think-of approach to eliminating the annoying click/creak I had in the area of the filament idler on the hobbed bolt.

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## jtice

Once again guys, thanks for all the help and input.

I think my photo exaggerates how deep the marks are in the filament, but still from your descriptions I think I may have it too tight still.
I will try loosening it a bit more, and get to a point where I am just tight enough for it not to slip.

As far as the layer separation.
After printing a spool bearing holder, just grabbing it and barely leveraging it over to see if it would pop off the bed, it broke.
Way less force than I would say is reasonable. 
The second one I printed a bit hotter, and turned the flow up from 100 to 104 (how much is that? wasnt sure what an increase of 4 actually was)
It seems stronger, but still not great. I think I am going to use some acetone to glue the weak layers and try to salvage them.

So far I have only used Winbo ABS from eFilament.
I was going to try some other ABS I got off eBay, but its a wider spool and wont fit the Prusa spool holder.   grrrrrrr
Thats why I was printing the bearing spool holder, well that and it just seems like a better holder option.
Very curious to see if it prints any stronger.
My other prints seemed to be a bit stronger, but the bearing holder was my second tallest print.
The Clough42 fan shroud is my tallest so far, it looks ok, but I can tell that I would easily break its layers if I wanted to. So might reprint it.

BTW, the bearing holder was printed with these settings, far as I can remember...
Cura Slicer
50mm/s speed
0.2mm layer height
1.2mm top/bottom/shell   (I should make top/bottom a multiple of layer height, and shell a multiple of the 0.4mm nozzle.... correct?)
234c head
96c bed
Forget what fill, probably 15 or 20%
no additional cooling fan
flow on Prusa set to 104
F/R (speed) on Prusa set to 105%

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## jtice

Been having some good success with the last few prints.
Just a tiny bit of lifting on the edges of a couple of the larger prints, but not bad, not enough to ruin the prints.
but as i print larger and larger items I need to trouble shoot that further.

I also think the click/creak I am hearing MIGHT be coming from the bed.
Maybe the heat bed shifting on the coardboard? or the glass and heatbed sqeeking together?
I am going to run a test some time with no filament in the extruder and see if it sounds the same.

Have a couple questions concerning layer height and print speeds.
I have left Cura speeds at the default 50mm/s, I think fill is defaulted at 100, or 150mm/s?
Some prints I have cranked F/R on the Prusa controller up to about 122%.. so that would mean its printing at about 61mm/s  correct?
I cant find much on good speeds to run the Prusa at, but did find a few say they run 60 to 70mm/s so I figured I was safe.
The print quality seems to still be fine, and it was on parts that the fit and finish really wasnt that important, long as it was strong.

Which leads me to my next question, how thick can I set layer heights to?
There are things that I just dont need that much detail out of, just need it to hold together well.
If the finish is rough thats ok for some things, would just be nice to be able to make prints faster for some things.
Prime example is this Spool Holder Cone I did. Came out great, but I would gladly give up some fit and finish on it to make a faster print.
Any ideas or tips for faster prints like this?

Settings for Spool Holder Cone
layer height= 0.24
shell= 0.8
top/bottom= 1.2
fill= 12%
Head= 230
Bed= 90
print speed= 50mm/s  (Prusa turned up to 122% about 15% into the print)
print time= 2 hours 16 min.

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## MiniMadRyan

Just want to say, I too get the clicks and pops. I tried loosening it off to gradually, to the point where it stopped extruding filament reliably, and the noise was there throughout. I am wondering though if perhaps the noise is the fine particles rubbing off of the gears. I noted that my extruder was dead silent for the first few prints, but since has had the same noise you describe. The only difference is that I can see some build up of worn plastic on the gears, I wonder if that is the culprit.

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## printbus

jtice - I think clough42 runs 100mm/sec prints all the time.  I've done some that fast, but I'm usually not in a hurry and prefer slower & quieter.  You might find that your speed limitation is how well you can draw heat out of the print between layers, assuming you're printing PLA.  

On the maximum layer height, I captured a note from somewhere that said a good rule of thumb is 0.8 * nozzle size.

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## jtice

Finally finished up my spool holder today. I like that its up high and out of the way of the printer.
It rolls super easy and smooth on the bearings, should work great.


[img][/img]

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## jtice

More successful prints!  :Smile: 







I still need to tweak the extruder tension some I guess, had a print fail 1:45 into the print due to filament slipping the other day  :Frown: 
Seems I am either breaking it, or its slipping. The extruder also sounds like its grinding sand at times also, but I cleaned it all out the other day.
I noticed the guidelier will move in and out just a tiiiiny bit at times, almost suggesting the hobbed bolt is bent, but I really dont think thats the case.
May be a bearing issue, will just have to keep an eye on it.

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## Roxy

Here is a cool Nautilus Gear that I found on ThingiVerse and modified to work better.   The warmed over version (here) will rotate and mesh nicely at the transition.

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## jtice

Printed it today, it turned out great!!!
Fits nice and tight and operates really well, good work.

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## usarmyaircav

so what is that supposed to do/be used for?

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## jtice

mindless entertainment as I sit here at my desk playing with it?   lol

Just a neat print, there are alot of them out there, that have odd shaped gears that dont look like they would mesh, but they do.

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## RobH2

Great photos and time lapse of your build. Thanks for that. And, it looks like it was a 2 Killians job. My took a six-pack...lol... Seriously, that 10" version looks really nice. Good post 'jtice.'

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## Roxy

> mindless entertainment as I sit here at my desk playing with it?   lol
> 
> Just a neat print, there are alot of them out there, that have odd shaped gears that dont look like they would mesh, but they do.


Well...  The cool thing about it (to me) is the gear ratio changes as it rotates.  You would be hard pressed to find a design where you both need that and need the gears to transition back to the original gear ratio, but it is really neat.   If you really did find an application for this and designed it in, my bet is that first tooth gets the living crap beat out of it.  That would be because the gear it is driving shifts from a very high gear ratio to a very low gear ration over the span of 1 tooth.

And "Yes!",  it really is good for mindless entertainment as you are sitting talking to somebody or what ever.  It is fun to just spin the gears...

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## jtice

> Great photos and time lapse of your build. Thanks for that. And, it looks like it was a 2 Killians job. My took a six-pack...lol... Seriously, that 10" version looks really nice. Good post 'jtice.'


Oh no, thats just how many bottles made it into the video I think.  There might have been a shot or 10 along the way too.   :Wink: 

Loving the printer so far, little odd issues here and there as I go, but you will have that.
Right now I seem to have odd areas in my print where the nozzle pauses, like it does before printing the next layer.
Kinda looks like the nozzle might be oozing during that tiny pause, causing the part to have a rough or raised spot there.

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