# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  MakerFarm 10" i3v build

## dacb

Received my 10" i3v last Wed.  Used Wed. night and Thu. night to spray lacquer it in black using $5 cans from a big-box home store.  This stuff dries really hard and yielded a robust and attractive surface over the birch ply.

WP_20140827_003.jpg

The kit was very impressive (with one exception, see below).  It is very easy to build (image for proof) and includes EVERYTHING like tools (e.g. 5.5mm wrench), extras (M3 bolts, M5 T-nuts which are handy for building new endstops), and most of the wiring ready to go (thermistor already had heat sleeves and tubing).  The only real gripe I had was with the printed parts.  These were printed in low quality and required an hour or two of tweaking with files, knives and sandpaper before the bolts, bearings, and everything fit together properly and operated smoothly.  This was particularly disappointing when I printed my own parts for Greg's Accessible Extruder within my first few prints and they turned out perfect.

WP_20140829_008.jpg 

I let assembly go at a comfortable pace and including letting lacquer dry and doing all the wiring / sleeving and many hours of alignment of all the axes with micrometers, clamps, mechanics straight edges, etc. it was ready and nearly perfect in five evenings.  Admittedly, I took it very slow and tried to include my kids and other family in the process so that we will all have a memory of building one of the "early 3D printers" together, similar to my memories of "building early home computers" in the late 70s.  Anyway...

The assembled unit printing the hollow cube.

WP_20140831_007.jpg

Second print was the adjustable Z-stop for the 10":

WP_20140902_006.jpg

I was very happy with the first prints and began experimenting with various Slic3r versions and settings to produce the usual upgrades for the base i3v...

Knob:

WP_20140901_011.jpg

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## dacb

Idler:

WP_20140901_012.jpg

Feet (though I haven't bothered to install them as I have no vibration issues):

WP_20140901_028.jpg

And replacement extruder parts.  

WP_20140901_022.jpgWP_20140902_002.jpg

Now, I have switched over the ABS (the glow in the dark green above) and started using Cura for everything.  I don't like ABS nearly as much as the PLA.  PLA just worked and didn't curl, etc.  With the ABS, it sticks well to the blue painters tape, but on large prints (e.g. the Tie Fighter for the boys), the edges would warp and pull the painters tape off the glass.

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## dacb

I have also printed all of clough42's terrific pieces for the Z-probe servo mount and improved hexagon cooler, but have not installed them.  With the adjustable Z-stop in place and some small m3 thumbscrews (that didn't require trimming to clear the frame), I've got bed leveling nailed.  I think putting in a lot of time doing alignment during assembly helped with this immensely. 

WP_20140901_010.jpg

The Makerfarm fan shroud for the hexagon head (1.75mm w/ .4 nozzle) melted within the first 48 hours.  A replacement was easily printed, but I'm disappointed by the design.  I don't have a fan in hand for clough42's improved design so it will have to wait on that for now.  See below for where it melted against the hot end.  Note, the printer was printing clough42's fan shroud for the extruder.

WP_20140902_007.jpg

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## MiniMadRyan

Glad you liked the adjustable end-stop. it took me about half an hour to throw that together from start to finish....wish I still had the original CAD files, but lost them when my Surface Pro 3 died. Awesome job on the i3v! It looks really well done!

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## dacb

> Glad you liked the adjustable end-stop. it took me about half an hour to throw that together from start to finish....wish I still had the original CAD files, but lost them when my Surface Pro 3 died. Awesome job on the i3v! It looks really well done!


Thank you.  And thank you very much for your end stop design.  It was a huge step up.  I opted to install the aluminum spiral couplers which made adjusting the stock stop impossible.

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## RaySuave

Be sure to monitor the temperature of the extruder motor because it can warp the extruder block making it useless.  Its good you already printed a spare, I wasn't so lucky.




> Glad you liked the adjustable end-stop. it took me about half an hour to throw that together from start to finish....wish I still had the original CAD files, but lost them when my Surface Pro 3 died. Awesome job on the i3v! It looks really well done!


Your endstop worked just fine for me too...thanks for the contribution.

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## printbus

Yeah, that shroud design is pretty poor.  It certainly wasn't tested much by whoever came up with it.  I think more than one user here has thought their hot end was leaking when it was likely only the shroud melting.  I now trim out the bottom, flat part of the shroud to clear the aluminum block.

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## dacb

> Yeah, that shroud design is pretty poor.  It certainly wasn't tested much by whoever came up with it.  I think more than one user here has thought their hot end was leaking when it was likely only the shroud melting.  I now trim out the bottom, flat part of the shroud to clear the aluminum block.


That is a great idea.  For some reason, I thought you had also switched to clough42's extruder fan setup.

I need to figure out how to remove the melted plastic from the extruder.  Maybe soak it in acetone overnight.

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## printbus

> That is a great idea.  For some reason, I thought you had also switched to clough42's extruder fan setup.
> 
> I need to figure out how to remove the melted plastic from the extruder.  Maybe soak it in acetone overnight.


Nope. I have LEDs mounted under the carriage and had glued-up the X-carriage prior to painting so for now I'm stuck.  To clean mine up, I just turned on the heater and wiped it off carefully as the block got hot.

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## dacb

> Nope. I have LEDs mounted under the carriage and had glued-up the X-carriage prior to painting so for now I'm stuck.  To clean mine up, I just turned on the heater and wiped it off carefully as the block got hot.


Again, this is great information.  I actually copied your approach for the LED strips under the X-carriage, but haven't wired them up yet.  I'm thinking of putting them on D9 (IIRC) of the RAMPS board so they only run during the print process.

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## printbus

> Again, this is great information.  I actually copied your approach for the LED strips under the X-carriage, but haven't wired them up yet.  I'm thinking of putting them on D9 (IIRC) of the RAMPS board so they only run during the print process.


There's nothing wrong with wiring them to D9, but you'll have to remember to tell your slicer to enable cooling so that D9 gets turned on for the print. Personally, I'd save D9 for the option of adding a print cooling fan. You may find you want those LEDs on more than you think - when checking bed clearance, when manually extruding after a color change, when wiping off the hot end nozzle, etc.  If you followed my LED scheme, note that clough42's revised hex hot end shroud system uses a different baseplate on the X-carriage that has a 25mm fan right where you probably have those undercarriage LEDs.

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## dacb

> There's nothing wrong with wiring them to D9, but you'll have to remember to tell your slicer to enable cooling so that D9 gets turned on for the print. Personally, I'd save D9 for the option of adding a print cooling fan. You may find you want those LEDs on more than you think - when checking bed clearance, when manually extruding after a color change, when wiping off the hot end nozzle, etc.  If you followed my LED scheme, note that clough42's revised hex hot end shroud system uses a different baseplate on the X-carriage that has a 25mm fan right where you probably have those undercarriage LEDs.


Very useful details, thank you. I hadn't thought about the other ways the lighting might be useful.

Actually, the need to replace the baseplate for clough42's fan is a big concern I've had. Among other things, I worry that the ABS might heat up and sag.

How is your pot holder/trivet that you mentioned in your build thread working?  I think the cardboard I'm using isn't providing enough insulation and this causes the bed temp to drop from 110 to 100 during the start of the printing process (I'm doing ABS right now).  I will mention that I did apply Kapton tape the underside of the bed per your idea, to prevent scratching the traces while removing the clips.

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## printbus

> Very useful details, thank you. I hadn't thought about the other ways the lighting might be useful.
> 
> Actually, the need to replace the baseplate for clough42's fan is a big concern I've had. Among other things, I worry that the ABS might heat up and sag.
> 
> How is your pot holder/trivet that you mentioned in your build thread working?  I think the cardboard I'm using isn't providing enough insulation and this causes the bed temp to drop from 110 to 100 during the start of the printing process (I'm doing ABS right now).  I will mention that I did apply Kapton tape the underside of the bed per your idea.


The pot holder thing seems to be working fine, although I unintentionally ended up with a pretty good air gap under the heat bed too.  I adjust all four corners of the bed now, and I'll bring the bed down a bit the next time I'm adjusting the Z endstop.  10 degrees seems like a pretty hefty temperature drop.  The 10-inch comes with a heat bed relay; I'd probably start by measuring the voltage at the output of the relay and seeing how much it changes when you see the temperature drop.  That might at least eliminate concerns that the power supply is dropping or that the wire gauge to the relay is too small.  

Seems like a smart move on the kapton under the edges of the heater circuit board. I haven't had things apart enough to install it yet.

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## dacb

I wanted to make a note for anyone who upgrades to the aluminum spiral couplings like I did: you will need to put some foil tape around the lead screw to make it large enough to fit a 5mm coupling.  Also, the two different brands of couplers I tried (one from MakerFarm and another random from ebay) obscured the Z end-stop so that it is nearly impossible to adjust.  That is remedied by either taking your 5mm hex wrench and cutting 7mm or so off the short leg so that there is room to work behind the coupler or better yet, moving to the screw adjustable end-stop for the 10" from MiniMadRyan.




> 10 degrees seems like a pretty hefty temperature drop.  The 10-inch comes with a heat bed relay; I'd probably start by measuring the voltage at the output of the relay and seeing how much it changes when you see the temperature drop.  That might at least eliminate concerns that the power supply is dropping or that the wire gauge to the relay is too small.


Great suggestion.  I used two 16 gauge ATX power supply wires into the heat bed relay from the PS.  This should be enough for the current the bed draws.  For the next print I do, I'll put a voltmeter on the relay and set it up next to the camera.  I note that I don't have any temperature drop for PLA when I run the bed at 70.  I'm wondering if the extruder fan shroud is blowing air down onto the bed and cooling it faster than it can reheat.  Once my working piece of ABS gets a centimeter or more tall or wide enough, the temperature goes back up to 110.  I'm using the stock fan shroud model, though I have had to print it as the original melted before I discovered your trick if cutting it out and using Kapton tape.

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## cliffgi

Hello.  Did you have any problems with the extruder gears being to close together?  Started my i3V 10" a couple days ago and today put the extruder together.  Very difficult to get motor bolted on because slots in extruder bracket did not line io well with the motor mount holes.  Basically had to force gears hard against one another to get the top screw in place.   Result is that gears do rotate freely, and are difficult/jerky to rotate by hand.  There is no was to back the motor off and ease the presure between them,Tried filling gears with some success, but still not smooth.  Colin says it is normal and they will break in but I'm concerned.

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## dacb

Congratulations on your new printer!

Yes, I had a lot of frustration with the printed parts of the extruder. I remember having to grind down the inside of the hinged idler to be able to seat the bearing without damaging it. The filament hole in the extruder body did not align with the hob in the bolt so we filed down one of the washers that go on the outside of the bearings.  Lots of other bits of shaving and filing.  There was a ton of cleanup to do on the pieces and some of the screw holes and nut traps had sagged and had to be drilled, shaved or otherwise reamed. 

When assembled, the gears were ragged on their surface and very tight even with the stepper at the farthest spot on the extruder.  The gears didn't rotate smoothly and the steps of the stepper motor were amplified by the tightness.  I was concerned enough to put the stepper on a stepper motor tester to play with it.  It ran smoothly so I installed it and it worked perfectly. Now the gears are worn down and mesh better.  Unfortunately, the printer has a fine dust of ground plastic all over it from the extruder gears as they "burned in."

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## dacb

Lights. Much like OME and printbus...

WP_20140905_039.jpg

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## cliffgi

Thanks for the quick response.  Nice to know it is not just me.  No sense having slots in the extruder bracket if the only way to mount the motor is HARD against the outside limit.  It is obvious that the either the top slot is misplaced or the quality of the gears provided in the MakerFarm kit is very low.  Kind of ironic that they are gears made by 3d for 3d.  Hope this is not a sign.  Not willing to deal with feed issues until gears wear in... pulling apart to file and clean the gears.   Job one after my first good test print will be to make and replace all kit parts.  Not happy.  MTF

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## dacb

I was disappointed also, but when my prints started coming out of the machine, that all melted away. My own prints of the extruder parts are beautiful (if I do say so myself). So, I was thinking for a while, why weren't the ones in my kit this nice? Then I realized that I spent 6 hours printing all my pieces for one extruder. That isn't going to work for MakerFarm which has to turn out a bunch of these a week. In a way, t doesn't make sense for MakerFarm to go crazy with making perfect pieces as the ones I received with my kit that I was so frustrated with worked great after I cleaned them up.

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## printbus

I don't recall which thread mentioned it, but 1stage has tweaked the extruder base a bit to provide more adjustment room in the NEMA17 holes - http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:409162. Even this was still tight on my extruder rebuild, and I used a needle file to lengthen the slots a bit more.  I then also use longer bolts on the motor so the heads are on the rear side of the plate, ensuring I can use as much of the increased slot length as I can (otherwise the recessed bolt head will still be limiting this).   I also believe the original Wades design had gears with straight teeth. I've wondered whether the tightness issue is with whoever adapted to the herribone gear design.

EDIT: Here's the post where 1stage mentioned the revised base - http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post15505

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## cliffgi

Definitely understand the rational, but don't agree.  I feel that if f they can't produce quality parts for the extruder, MakerFarm should sub out to an injecion mold service, and adjust their price upward.  The buyer has to foot the bill for the reproduction now anyway, and when you account for frustration and time, I think they would come out well ahead.  It is nice to be able to build replacement parts, but it shouldn't be a means to quality operation from the get go.  I bought it to build other stuff.   That being said, I'm sure like you and so many others, I know I'll get beyond this initial disappointment.   I absolutely love your your paint job, and thought about doing it myself, but got too excited about the output phase.  Perhaps I'll retro in the future, but for sure, I'm using wire sleeves now.  Also going to install a pwr switch for the 12v30A power supply.  I don't think this power supply (recommended) comes with one built in.  I could be wrong.

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## dacb

I bought this one from amazon. I'm happy with it, so far. I neglected a power switch for the PS which is something I will remedy soon. Get yourself some 10mm M4 nuts for mounting the PS before you get started with wiring.

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## Drone

> Definitely understand the rational, but don't agree.  I feel that if f they can't produce quality parts for the extruder, MakerFarm should sub out to an injecion mold service, and adjust their price upward.  The buyer has to foot the bill for the reproduction now anyway, and when you account for frustration and time, I think they would come out well ahead.  It is nice to be able to build replacement parts, but it shouldn't be a means to quality operation from the get go.  I bought it to build other stuff.   That being said, I'm sure like you and so many others, I know I'll get beyond this initial disappointment.   I absolutely love your your paint job, and thought about doing it myself, but got too excited about the output phase.  Perhaps I'll retro in the future, but for sure, I'm using wire sleeves now.  Also going to install a pwr switch for the 12v30A power supply.  I don't think this power supply (recommended) comes with one built in.  I could be wrong.


I just got my 10" kit built this week and had the same concerns as you about the fit of the gears. Turned out to be a non issue. While I thought the gear mesh was extremely tight (could barely get the motor bolts in, very difficult) by the time I had finished a couple of test boxes it was running very smooth. After thinking about it a bit I'm thinking it will allow for a 0 lash  (which is important) adjustment as the gears wear over time for a longer period with that much adjustment room available. I would think just build it as is and enjoy for a bit before making changes. It may seem like there is no way to bolt the motor in at first, at least it did for me, just start the one bolt farthest from the center of the extruder and hold enough pressure to get the others started. I agree that the adjustment holes could have been a bit longer out of the box, but it did work just fine after assembled. I'm not saying the extruder parts are quality 3D printing since my replacements came out much better, but they do work well after the difficult assembly.

A couple things I did find that were a bit irritating to me. One was the software link for the drivers would not work for me on Win 8.1. Could not communicate with Pronterface, would not connect, access denied. Went to an Arduino site to get drivers for the Mega 2560 v3 and these work great. This driver is the 1.0.5 release version, although they have a 1.5.7 beta available which I haven't tried. Here is the link from Arduino.cc if you have the same issue I did installing the drivers in the build PDF link. Wasted about 2 hours of perfectly good drinking time on this one that I will never get back : )

http://arduino.googlecode.com/files/...r2-windows.exe

Another issue is the spool holder. Not great and was too narrow to fit the ABS spool I purchased from Makerfarm with my kit. Poorly done IMO, I could understand if I bought the ABS elsewhere, but this came with my kit and should have worked. My PLA spool fits, but even then it does not work smoothly it jerks a bit at a time and I can't help thinking this is detrimental to good print quality. I have made my own holder with bearings, but this really needs to be addressed.

The Z endstop is much too fiddly to get fine adjustment on the Z axis without a lot of perseverance and luck. I printed the MiniMadRyan endstop from Thingiverse and problem solved. Why isn't this or something like it in the kit? The original design is a fail I think and should have been addressed long ago. I had to use the stock endstop before I could print the MiniMadRyan version which gave me a really good perspective on how good the new endstop is and how bad the original endstop was. This would not be hard or expensive to fix by Makerfarm, and they need to.

No control knob for the LCD? Why? Too expensive? I don't think so and it should have been part of the kit since it makes navigating the menu system so much easier. Get one from Thingiverse pronto.

A couple of the build videos Colin does something wrong and then later has to undo it. Well I was following the video and pausing to do the build only to later find out I had made the same mistake and had to undo it too. WTF? Why not at least put a text edit in to warn not to do this in the video. Not a big deal, and I understand not wanting to reshoot the video, but would have been nice to note it.

The build deck information is wrong in my firmware I guess. I tried to print out my spool holder which is a length of 6.75" and it could not print it with the X and Y bed values set at 250x250mm in Slic3r. It would only print to the 200x200mm borders. After resetting to a 200x200mm bed in Slic3r it re-centered the print and it printed fine. I haven't addressed this yet, but it is next on my project list. I don't know for sure, but I think this is probably a firmware issue. Maybe this just didn't get updated from a i3V 8" firmware before sending out and is a unique issue, I would be interested to hear if anyone else has run across this.

I am not unhappy with the i3V at all, and am very impressed with how it is operating. I just think the above items could have been easily resolved and made for a much better build out of the box.

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## RaySuave

> The build deck information is wrong in my firmware I guess. I tried to print out my spool holder which is a length of 6.75" and it could not print it with the X and Y bed values set at 250x250mm in Slic3r. It would only print to the 200x200mm borders. After resetting to a 200x200mm bed in Slic3r it re-centered the print and it printed fine. I haven't addressed this yet, but it is next on my project list. I don't know for sure, but I think this is probably a firmware issue. Maybe this just didn't get updated from a i3V 8" firmware before sending out and is a unique issue, I would be interested to hear if anyone else has run across this.


I had this same issue, couldnt get the printer to use the full 250mm X 250mm bed.  Emailed Colin about it and he said I most likely have the 8" i3v firmware and he gave me a link to download the 10" firmware to update the printer.  After doing this, problem solved.  This is the link he gave me https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B80A...p=docslist_api and the tutorial on how to do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOoj...ature=youtu.be

Not sure why the 10" i3v download isnt available on his site.

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## printbus

> I had this same issue, couldnt get the printer to use the full 250mm X 250mm bed.  Emailed Colin about it and he said I most likely have the 8" i3v firmware and he gave me a link to download the 10" firmware to update the printer.  After doing this, problem solved.  This is the link he gave me https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B80A...p=docslist_api
> 
> Not sure why the 10" i3v download isnt available on his site.


Do you mean why isn't it hosted at the makerfarm web site?  I think all the MakerFarm downloads are google docs.  That's actually not a bad idea from a small business standpoint. That way MakerFarm doesn't have to pay for the download traffic.  

If you mean why doesn't the 10-inch build guide link to the 10-inch firmware instead of the 8-inch, yeah, that's a good question.  On a related note, don't follow the download instructions in the RAMPS firmware video either.  The download path discussed in the video will get you firmware for the i3, not the i3v.  I learned that one the hard way.  

IIRC, three people have now posted about the bed size issue.  This is likely something to check on every 10-inch printer.  To test, use the LCD interface to Auto Home and then Move Axis for either X or Y as far as you can.  If you can't go past 200, you're running the 8-inch firmware. 

To verify whether you have the right source code, use the Arduino IDE or any text editor to look at the configuration.h file. If the #define statements for X_MAX_POS, Y_MAX_POS, and Z_MAX_POS set them to 200, you have source code for the 8-inch. Editing those values is likely all you need to change to adapt the 8-inch source code for the 10-inch printer.

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## RaySuave

> Do you mean why isn't it hosted at the makerfarm web site?  I think all the MakerFarm downloads are google docs.  That's actually not a bad idea from a small business standpoint. That way MakerFarm doesn't have to pay for the download traffic.  
> 
> If you mean why doesn't the 10-inch build guide link to the 10-inch firmware instead of the 8-inch, yeah, that's a good question.  On a related note, don't follow the download instructions in the RAMPS firmware video either.  The download path discussed in the video will get you firmware for the i3, not the i3v.  I learned that one the hard way.



I meant why the link isnt available on the site....  The video just serves the purpose of how to get the Arduino software to do the actual uploading of the 10"  firmware downloaded from the link I gave.

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## printbus

Ray has his firmware straightened out, but for future readers let me elaborate the firmware confusion.  The *Downloads* page in the build guides has a statement that reads: "...if you choose to change the firmware you can watch the RAMPS Firmware Video - i3V Firmware Download".  At least in my case, the confusion started in my thinking that is one link, but it is actually two separate links.  

If you watch the RAMPS Firmware Video, ten seconds in the video tells you to go to the MakerFarm Build Instructions area, scroll to the RAMPS board and click on the RAMPS download link there to obtain software.  That will provide you a ZIP file that has the Arduino IDE, Mega2560 files, and firmware source for multiple MakerFarm printers.  At about 1:20 in the video, Colin says to pick the RAMPS folder that is the closest for your printer.  If you have an i3v, this latter part is wrong. You're actually supposed to get the firmware source code from the i3V Firmware Download link in the build guide. Unfortunately, as of today the build guide for the 10-inch i3v appears to point to the same ZIP file as for the 8-inch.  

So, the Arduino IDE and Mega2560 files come from the MakerFarm Build Instructions - RAMPS area.  Source for the 8-inch i3v comes from the firmware download link in the build guide for the 8-inch printer.  Firmware source for the 10-inch printer either comes from the link Ray provided or by using the source for the 8-inch except modified for the three #define statements mentioned earlier.

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## Drone

Thanks for the timely replies Ray and Printbus. You have both saved me a ton of confusion and most likely mistakes. So this seems like a good day to jump into the firmware to get my bed size configured and maybe get my auto leveling system done. Since both the firmware and the driver links seem to be incorrect for the 10", I think the build instructions need some serious updating, and the firmware as shipped should already be correct on the 10". It would really help guys just starting out (like me) to have the links for software produce the correct version for the printer and the preinstalled firmware be correct for the kit. I'll send some feedback to Colin about this.

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## dacb

I just went through this yesterday for adding EEPROM support. After finding links for three different Marlin firmware but none of them 10" on the makerfarm site, I gave up and cloned the most recent Marlin from GitHub. Once I had a firmware that supported auto bed leveling I decided to add that hardware to my rig. I had to make a small number of changes beyond what Zennmaster outlines. I can provide diffs the next time I'm by the machine. Two that I recall were that some sled code was included in the auto bed leveling but not wrapped in a sled specific #define which resulted in build errors and I opted to keep the software limits on x and y axis travel and disabled them only on z (for the final, not during auto bed level setup).

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## usarmyaircav

I am glad I saw this thread also.  I got my kit on Friday, and am hoping to have the least problems as possible.

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## usarmyaircav

also being the glutton for punishment, is anyone else running this on linux?

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## dacb

> I can provide diffs the next time I'm by the machine.


See attached. This does not have my changes for software limits for x and y.  I can provide those separately.  This is against the github repo from Sat. 9/6/14.

marlin.diff.txt




> also being the glutton for punishment, is anyone else running this on linux?


I'm using Octopi which is a set of packages for OctoPrint on a Raspberry Pi running ARM Linux. I also tried Repetier-Server on the Pi but that was rather unstable and crashed half the prints.  I have also used pronterface on the Pi, a Mac, and a 64bit intel Linux box with no problems.  

If you have a Pi, I highly recommend Octopi.  You can get an SD card image based on raspbian with a fully configured web interface and webcam streamer ready to go. Then, you can upgrade your octopi version by doing a git pull and restarting, as described here.  I love being able to star, view, tune, and cancel the print and do manual moves from an iPad or at work, etc.

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## usarmyaircav

I will look into getting a raspberry Pi, however right now I have a laptop runing Unbuntu that I am going to be using.

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## dacb

If you plan to try Repetier-Host, you will probably need 14.04 or at least 13.04 in order to run the mono bits required.  Everything else will work out of the box.  If you plan on leaving the laptop attached to the printer you could try Octoprint also.

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## MiniMadRyan

Quick question, is it absolutely necessary to run a cooler on the hexagon at all times? I've noticed in my prints that a print cooler could help considerably, and was wondering if one could simply relocate the fan from the hot end down slightly, or if i would just be better off adding an additional fan to cool the print too.

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## usarmyaircav

> Quick question, is it absolutely necessary to run a cooler on the hexagon at all times? I've noticed in my prints that a print cooler could help considerably, and was wondering if one could simply relocate the fan from the hot end down slightly, or if i would just be better off adding an additional fan to cool the print too.


I could be wrong so someone please correct me if I am, but since the hexagon is an all metal hotend like the E3dv(name your version), I am pretty sure it is required to run a fan on it, and it is recommended that you use an additional fan for a print cooler.

Todd

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## RaySuave

> I could be wrong so someone please correct me if I am, but since the hexagon is an all metal hotend like the E3dv(name your version), I am pretty sure it is required to run a fan on it, and it is recommended that you use an additional fan for a print cooler.
> 
> Todd


Yep...if you dont have a fan on the hexagon, heat will rise up into the aluminum spacer that the extruder block sits on...then the extruder block may soften and warp from the heat.

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## gmay3

Yes you absolutely need a hotend cooling fan running on the hexagon at all times. I can speak from directly from a past failure. My whole extruder base was melted, luckily I had a spare!

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## printbus

> Quick question, is it absolutely necessary to run a cooler on the hexagon at all times? I've noticed in my prints that a print cooler could help considerably, and was wondering if one could simply relocate the fan from the hot end down slightly, or if i would just be better off adding an additional fan to cool the print too.


I've also had temperature problems with the hex hot end after I tried to cut back on airflow.  The likelihood of issues will go up as you try to extrude at higher temps on long prints.  Relocating the fan lower could actually help the hot end, since the upper part of the fan seems to be pretty much blocked by the x-carriage and hot end mounting plate.  On the downside, lowering that airflow might lead to a longer warm up time if you're running a heated bed.  IMO, I think you'd also find lowering the hot end fan to provide limited benefit as a print cooler.  There's not a lot of airflow there, and it's not very focused. 

I'd go the dedicated print cooler route. For one thing, RAMPS and slicers are ready to deal with controlling a dedicated print fan.  You can keep it off as the bed is heating and through initial layers so you get good bed adhesion.  The slicer can even adjust the fan speed upwards as layers get smaller.  If you can hold off a week or so, I've implemented a different approach for a print cooler on the i3v that is giving me great results. I'll reveal it in my build thread after I get more run time with it.

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## MiniMadRyan

Thanks Printbus, I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm thinking that since, like you mentioned, D9 is still available for a ramps controlled fan, that I will take an extra fan I have sitting around and wire it in. I finally have my Surface 3 back from warranty and set up again for CAD work, so maybe tonight I will tinker around and see if I can throw together something quickly for a mount. Maybe a rear mounted fan with a small duct, or something that can mount to the existing extruder base and incorporate both fan mounts....hmmm...

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## gmay3

I'm very excited to see your print cooler thread posts printbus!  :Big Grin: 

*buys a one way ticket on the hype train*

*raises the roof*

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## dacb

Totally agree!  I am hours away from installing one controlled by D9 and anchored via the hexagon cooling fan screws, but maybe I'll wait for your design!?!

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## printbus

There will be those who don't like the print cooler I have.  I'll try to get it added to the build thread sooner rather than later. 

MiniMad - it'd be interesting to see a rear-mounted cooler.  That might have pretty wide acceptance since it wouldn't be in the way of anything. I started with that concept. It just started getting real bulky by the time the fan or blower was located far enough back to clear the v-rail and carriage wheel, and then a shroud had to sneak below the carriage and get around the wheel at the bottom of the carriage.  I sketched a concept up on paper, but concluded it was way beyond my current design capability.  

I even toyed with the idea of a blower mounted on the outer sidewall of the frame, above where the MeanWell type power supply usually goes.  Some sort of flexible hose could then curve down to the bottom of the carriage where I envisioned a shroud was attached.  The local ACE Hardware had some 3/4-inch ID corrugated discharge hose that might adapt well to the square or rectangular hole in a blower. If it hadn't been overpriced at $4 USD a foot, I'd have tried that. 

I was also intrigued by http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:271875. It uses the split cable loom as an air tube from a blower mounted on the unused extruder motor bolt hole for a Robo 3D printer. The tubing and copper wire length might have to be different for an i3v, but it could work for many depending on how the hot end wiring is routed. 

Clough's print cooler was strapped onto the left side of the X-carriage on my printer for a while as well.  I put it there after I had an extruder base melt-down with the print cooler mounted on top of the low-flow fan I had installed for the stock hex cooling approach.   

The more ideas out there the better.

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## jtice

Tracking still isnt showing when my printer is due  :Frown: 
Can someone please tell me what size glass I need to get so I can go ahead and have that cut?
Looks like most are getting a peice thats full width, and then having it a bit shorter depth to clear the bolts?
That seems easier than attempting to break the corners off.

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## MiniMadRyan

Well I ended up going with a side mount cooling fan.  I just couldn't figure out a good solution from the rear or front.  My goal was to use an existing 40mm fan and whatever hardware I have sitting around. There are some issues to the mount I have, namely the angle is a bit too broad and I want to add a keyway to keep the mount in place,  but using the existing mounting holes on the x carriage,  it seems it will do a good enough job without any mods to the printer itself

IMG_20140909_221158.jpg

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## jtice

Nice and simple solution.

Am I missing something, or would this be a good solution?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:351280

Opps, nevermind, says it doesnt work with the stock setup.
Only works with this setup, which also seems nice.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:335613

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## dacb

I'm using the stock hot end (reprinted after it melted once... See http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post25399 and printbus's follow up with an easy fix). I wonder if the lower two screws on the cooling fan could be used to mount a smaller version of https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:351280 for a 25 mm fan.

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## MiniMadRyan

makerfarm_print_cooler_R.stlWell life interrupted my progress this week and I haven't had time to revisit the model I drew up the other night. Will hopefully get around to it tonight or tomorrow. So much to print, so little time!

Edit, here's a quick revamp of the model I posted before. The tab on the right edge is designed to 'hook' around the outside front edge of the x carriage, which should provide the support needed to keep the mount from moving. The screw hole is simply aligned with the single screw on the side of the carriage. Will print it this weekend and see if it fits!

makerfarm_print_cooler_R.stl

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## dacb

> I'm using the stock hot end (reprinted after it melted once... See http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post25399 and printbus's follow up with an easy fix). I wonder if the lower two screws on the cooling fan could be used to mount a smaller version of https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:351280 for a 25 mm fan.


Here is my print cooler design:  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:462768

This parametric model styled after clough42's allows you to try different fan sizes and alternate mount points by controlling the angle and diameter of the nozzle away from the fan.  I have one setup that seems to work with a 25mm and another with 40mm.

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## dacb

To help in getting the print cooler positioned absolutely perfectly so it will not interfere but still offers maximum airflow over just the top of the hot end, I ended up coming up with these items:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:464868
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:463758

They are pretty generic and can be used to mount a lot of the different print coolers (see the list in Thing Info section).

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## MiniMadRyan

Here's the final print cooler mount. I have to update the STL as it appears there's a small issue with the centre opening when printing. I will probably design a duct for it that will mount to the other side of the fan, but for now, it appears to work well. 

10304870_10152712945902177_7377233474309190063_n.jpg

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## dacb

That's great!  Without any ducting, when it kicks on, do you see a quick dip in the hot end temperature?

It looks like you have plenty of space for an auto bed leveling system.

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## MiniMadRyan

There's an ever slight reduction, maybe half a degree, i lucked out, in that at its current angle, the bulk of the air that the fan is moving just clears the tip of the hot end. I will have to run some tests, but as it is, this should work pretty well....I wonder if there will be a need for a duct at all...I'm not sure how/where i would mount the bed levelling servo...I've honestly gotten used to manually levelling my beds over the years hah!

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## printbus

> ....I wonder if there will be a need for a duct at all...


IMO, it depends what you're looking for in a print cooler.  The open faced fan will definitely help on larger prints. What I found is that for bridging, low angle walls, or high density very small prints (maybe like the small extruder gear), I needed a pretty concentrated airflow aimed right below the nozzle. Part of this was to ensure I had adequate cooling on the part of the print behind the hot end.  I had multiple prints where the upwind part of the print was great, but the downwind part was still having cooling issues.

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## jtice

Did my first prints last night!!!

Dont want to highjack this thread with my own build and questions, so I made a post here...
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...7288#post27288

Would appreciate any input.
This thread has been VERY helpful !!!!

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## dacb

Congratulations!  I'm sure you read through Printbus's build for the 8" which is super helpful too!

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## jtice

Thanks,
Yep read his thread also!  Great info around here!

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## dacb

I note that the adjustable Z-end stop has moved from Thingiverse to Youmagine.  Here is the new link: https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ma...top-bracket--2

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## MiniMadRyan

Thanks dacb, I just didn't like the TOS that Thingiverse had, and as I've got several updates coming, I wanted to move to a platform that was more open source. 

I've also created a new print cooler for it, which I'm fairly happy with. Using a standard 40mm fan, it mounts in the same location as my old one, however it now features a duct and revised mount that should increase the airflow more than my previous design

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ma...e-print-cooler

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## jtice

Nice mount and duct. I am using your first version now,
Simple and small, but I dont like that it doesnt focus the air at all.

Do you think your design would work with the Clough42 HexHead extruder shroud and AutoLevel setup?
[EDIT]  The servo is obviously in the way to mount it on the left side, but it looks like you could mirror the design and mount it on the right side?

Id like to find a way to do Clough42s setup and still have a fan on the side, 
I dont like the idea of mounting a fan in the front, cant see the extruder as well.

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## mikamiko

*"It is very easy to build" like it*

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## printbus

> Id like to find a way to do Clough42s setup and still have a fan on the side, 
> I dont like the idea of mounting a fan in the front, cant see the extruder as well.


Here's a possibility for a print cooler - http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:271875. It's meant for another printer, but it should adapt to the 13/13v, depending on routing of wires going to the hot end.  The blower mounts to the spare mounting hole on the extruder motor, with a flexible duct that is routed to the print area.

The left-side blower I'm using leaves a lot of room for auto-leveling stuff since the blower is mounted forward to line up with the hot end. It'd take some creativity to make a standard servo with a swing arm work, but some day I may look at using some sort of linear one that moves a microswitch vertically, or using a linear conversion on a rotary servo.

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## usarmyaircav

Printbus is that first one the kind of servo that tilts the blades on a collective pitch RC helicopter?   Not to get too off track but since seeing your sig, I have been interested in RC helicopters again.  I worked on Cobra and Apache Attack helicopters in the Army.

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## printbus

> Printbus is that first one the kind of servo that tilts the blades on a collective pitch RC helicopter?   Not to get too off track but since seeing your sig, I have been interested in RC helicopters again.  I worked on Cobra and Apache Attack helicopters in the Army.


Sort of. Smaller RC helicopters often use linear servos to move the swashplate, which ultimately controls the pitch of the main blades.  The linear servos are used since they're small and light.  Larger RC helicopters will use rotary servos since they're stronger and likely faster.  A collective pitch heli will have four servos - three controlling the swashplate and an additional one controlling blade pitch on the tail.

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## MiniMadRyan

> Printbus is that first one the kind of servo that tilts the blades on a collective pitch RC helicopter?   Not to get too off track but since seeing your sig, I have been interested in RC helicopters again.  I worked on Cobra and Apache Attack helicopters in the Army.


Funny enough I work on the EO/IR on those platforms  :Smile: 

Jtice, I haven't provisioned for the auto bed levelling system just yet. I toyed with the thought of mounting the servo on the opposite side of the platform. The issue is with the carriage there's limited space due to the vertical design, that and the hexagon hot end's required fan takes up a good spot. I think it wouldn't be too hard to fashion a new mount and duct that is a little further forward and narrower, so it would clear the servo and switch. I will have to try when I get to doing an auto bed solution.

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## MiniMadRyan

Had a strange occurrence last night and tonight. When i went to print last night, my first print i noticed that the z height was off, the extruder was too high. No big deal, re-aligned and no issues at all that night (aside from me wanting cleaner prints) Come back tonight and fire it up, first print, the extruder is now too close, filament won't extrude, its that close. So i re-adjust to what I am thinking is roughly where it was at before. I didn't do much to the printer in-between, other than changing the print fan, so I don't know if that would have knocked something out, but it seemed weird...

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## jtice

Mine does that alot also, it seems the bed , or the nozzle, are at different heights each day.
I have noticed that it makes a difference if its your first print of the day, I think the wood part of the print bed is expanding when its warm.
I preheat mine for 8 o 10 minutes now before I start my first print.
It helps, but I still have to adjust at times.

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## dacb

Some sources of noise I have identified from my build:

*Filament spool holder.*  I'm using the stock "spool holder."  It isn't in a bad position.  I adds weight to keep the frame anchored and it feeds naturally into the extruder.  However, the spool doesn't really rotate around the cross piece as much as lurch. There is probably a clever solution on the 3D object sites, but I am just filing the cross member towards round at each filament spool swap.  Lo-tech.

*LCD mount.* buzz.... See clough42's spacer.  Through random chance I had some thick foam "washers" with an adhesive bottom that worked.

*Spun belt drive gears.* Several times now, I have noticed that the timing pulleys like to drop set screws.  On both the X & Y axes, the set screws for the servo motor gear come loose and will potentially dislodge. This isn't brain surgery, but it is annoying.  Something odd is happening here with fit in my kit.  Maybe next time I tighten, I'll loctite blue. *Symptoms:* _First_, smearing: smearing on an axis. When the angular variation at each direction change are large enough, the print will seem to smear with inadequate filament feed rate.  IT looks bad! _Second:_ noise. The axis will pull strongly to either direction, but as the gear slips on reversal, it will hesitate (as the motor reverses, but the gear/pulley is not engaged) and then catch with a click or tick.  If it goes far enough, it will be a thud after each direction change on an axis that is large enough. You could miss this sound for lots of reasons: kids, too much 1812 Overture when you were a kid, or life.

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## gmay3

> Some sources of noise I have identified from my build:
> 
> *Filament spool holder.*  I'm using the stock "spool holder."  It isn't in a bad position.  I adds weight to keep the frame anchored and it feeds naturally into the extruder.  However, the spool doesn't really rotate around the cross piece as much as lurch. There is probably a clever solution on the 3D object sites, but I am just filing the cross member towards round at each filament spool swap.  Lo-tech.


dacb, this might save you some elbow grease. I've been using this and it's running better for sure.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:326641

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## dacb

Works great with my ABS spools!  It is a tad too large for my PLA.  On my todo list is to remix it slightly thinner.  I think the way you designed it is perfect for thinning.  Thanks!

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## gmay3

Great! While I'd love to take credit for its design, it wasn't me but user neonpolaris :P

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