# 3D Printing > General 3D Printing Discussion >  What printer style to purchase for high density thermoset peices?

## Overlord475

What printer technology is preferred for 3D printed pieces of high density (98%+) that can print in a UV curable photopolymer thermoset plastic? SLA perhaps?

Need to be able to print in materials having a melting temperature of 250°C+ would be great. (ABS?)

This would be a desk-top home use printer for a small company venture. 
Budget of ~$1000

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## curious aardvark

Umm, you either want an sla or you don't

As for the 250c - would the part need to withstand that high a temp ?

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## LambdaFF

ABS melts at 100°C but you print it at 250°C. Are you confusing the 2 ?

ABS is not a laser curable resin and as such irrelevant to SLA...

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## Davo

Please educate me. I know a little about thermoset plastics, and I know a little about UV crosslinking. I've never heard of a material which gets melted, then... what? UV cures? Cools off? Both?

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## curious aardvark

just out of curiosity - what temperature do the uv resins for sla machines actually melt at ? 
I'd think it would be quite high - but no clue really :-)

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## Overlord475

> Umm, you either want an sla or you don't
> 
> As for the 250c - would the part need to withstand that high a temp ?


Ultimately I am looking for an alternative to the Stratasys PolyJet Process using DigitalABS (due to the extreme expense of the Stratsys printers).
I will be using the printer to produce injection mold tooling for prototyping.

For that reason I need to be able to produce 3D prints having very high density (low porosity) and high melting temps.
The plastic also must be a thermoset material so that it will not interact with the thermoplastic injected into the mold. 

I believe SLA is my best bet, but wanted to tap the collective knowledge of this community first.




> just out of curiosity - what temperature do the uv resins for sla machines actually melt at ? 
>  I'd think it would be quite high - but no clue really :-)


This is a good question as well. I would like to know the post-cured melting temp of the UV resins used for SLA.

Looks like 3Dsystems make a producte that when post-cured and heat treated can achieve a Heat Deflection temp of 513°F+

http://www.3dsystems.com/sites/www.3...uestone_US.pdf

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## LambdaFF

how about good old fashioned CNCed aluminium injection moulds ?

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## curious aardvark

The short answer is no. 

There is no fdm material that has a glass point over 250C

Like I said no idea on resin melting/softening temps. And a couple internet searches came up blank as well. Doesn't seem to be information anyone wants to share.

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## Overlord475

> how about good old fashioned CNCed aluminium injection moulds ?


 Cost of Proto-typing an SLA injection mold = ~$200

 Cost to Proto-type an Aluminum mold = ~$3000 to $5000

 If there are issues with the SLA mold I can easily make correction to confirm proper production of the injected parts.
 Once the design is finalized I will foot the bill to produce the aluminum / steel molds.

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## LambdaFF

> Cost of Proto-typing an SLA injection mold = ~$200
> 
> Cost to Proto-type an Aluminum mold = ~$3000 to $5000


That would be true if you were to find a thermoplastic/curable resin that can live up to these temperatures.

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## Overlord475

> That would be true if you were to find a thermoplastic/curable resin that can live up to these temperatures.


That is the point of this thread... 

Like I noted in an earlier post,

It looks like 3Dsystems makes a producte that when post-cured and heat treated can achieve a Heat Deflection Temp (HDT) of 513°F (267°C)

http://www.3dsystems.com/sites/www.3...uestone_US.pdf

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## Overlord475

Interesting read:

http://www.dsm.com/content/dam/dsm/s...t.pdf?download

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## Mjolinor

> Interesting read:
> 
> http://www.dsm.com/content/dam/dsm/s...t.pdf?download



You reckon? Personally a page that wants all my personal details doesn't fit into the "interesting" category.  :Smile:

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## curious aardvark

> That is the point of this thread... 
> 
> Like I noted in an earlier post,
> 
> It looks like 3Dsystems makes a producte that when post-cured and heat treated can achieve a Heat Deflection Temp (HDT) of 513°F (267°C)
> 
> http://www.3dsystems.com/sites/www.3...uestone_US.pdf


Yes but you didn't want to use a super expensive industrial machine :-)

so what you want are the melting temps for standard desktop uv resins.

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## Overlord475

> You reckon? Personally a page that wants all my personal details doesn't fit into the "interesting" category.


Dang, was hoping that would be a direct link after putting in my info.

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## Overlord475

> Yes but you didn't want to use a super expensive industrial machine :-)
> 
> so what you want are the melting temps for standard desktop uv resins.


True, wasn't sure yet what machines the 3Dsystems' (Acura Bluestone) or Somos' (PerForm) high temp resins would work in.

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## awerby

Even if you found a SLA  material that would handle the temperature, that wouldn't mean it would make a suitable mold for plastic injection. Injection molds have to be tough, strong, and release easily. I doubt that many SLA materials would qualify. It seems you'd be better off printing a positive part and making the mold from it using proven technology, such as a steel-filled epoxy material. Here's some more about the process: http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/...uction-tooling

Andrew Werby
www.comptersculpture.com

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## Prof Pat Pending

This has been done a number of times over the last 15 years or so
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ch...reolithography

As for Bluestone, I've successfully laminated over it at 185C without a thermal post-cure.
A post-cure will elevate its use temp and stiffness at temp to a degree, certainly worth experimenting with.

Not sure about the prices mentioned in a previous post though. All of the filled resins are on the expensive side and process somewhat slower than conventional resins.

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## awerby

I looked at that article: https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._mould_tooling

and it didn't exactly convince me that direct injection into SLA molds was the way to go. First off, they used a SLA machine that could build parts in epoxy, which is a rare thing; most can't. Second, they just printed a shell, backed it up with aluminum-filled epoxy to draw off heat, and inserted it into a conventional steel mold. Thirdly, it didn't seem to work all that well - "flexural stress" was cited as the major cause of failure. Given that the test parts they used were extremely simple in shape, one would expect more complex ones (that would make more sense to use this method on) to exhibit even worse behavior. Even if you could make this work to some degree, without a major improvement in SLA materials I'm not seeing it as a viable process in industry. 

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

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