# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > FlashForge Forum >  FlashForge Dreamer vs Dremel's Idea Builder

## catalyst

I picked up the Dremel Idea Builder for $999 at my local Home Depot 2 nights ago. It is basically a re-badged Dreamer without a heated bed, and with a single print head (PLA Only), but it comes paired with a Dremel Warranty, and support. 

The Dreamer is a few bucks more, but it prints with various materials. 

Has anyone else looked at both or had time with both? I'm looking for feedback. This was my first 3D printer, so I wanted to make sure I had the opportunity for a local store return if it didn't do what I needed it to, it had issues, or didn't work within the first 30 days.

How much of a loss am I at with only having the 1 print head, non heated bed, and only able to use PLA? How bad is the smell with ABS? I plan on purchasing small parts for Astronomy and Night vision so hopefully PLA meets my needs. 

Thanks.

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## soofle616

Abs smell can be anything from unnoticeable to awful with the difference mostly being in the size of the print. Longer prints will smell a lot more than small ones. Very small prints won't smell at all unless you're in a very small room and/or have a very sensitive nose. I'm about an hour into an 8 hour abs print right now and I have my windows open despite the 35 degree day because the smell was giving me a headache.

2 heads are not really useful especially at your level of experience. In my experience so far they cause more problems than they solve. Oozing with dual extrusion prints can ruin a print and even if you're only using one of the two heads, the other can end up scraping the part as it passes over and ruining the print. The benefits are multicolor prints and using different materials for support that can be removed with chemicals that won't effect the main print material. As you gain experience you may want to try it out and at that point you may regret only having the single extruder but for now I wouldn't worry about it.

Not having a heated bed imo is an issue. It limits your material choices dramatically and can also make keeping the prints stuck to the platform more difficult even with pla. Again, for now it probably won't be a problem but I suspect you'll be wanting a heated bed long before you want a second extruder.

Assuming the dremel version is in fact a dreamer or at least adheres to the same level of build quality you will probably be happy with your purchase. If you're a tinkerer at all you will probably find yourself modding it in fairly short order to make it better and/or looking at a second printer to give yourself more capabilities.

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## catalyst

The Dremel is indeed a joint venture with FlashForge. The Dremel team  indicated that some of the Dreamer parts were upgraded (bearings, fans,  motors - according to an Ask Dremel Q&A) as well. So far, I have  zero issue with my parts NOT sticking. In fact, I am almost the other  side of the spectrum - I broke a couple of the frogs I printed trying to  pry them off the surface. I am still trying to figure out the optimal  settings. 
*
One question* - for leveling, there was an included piece of cardstock  that I am to slide between the extruder and the bed. It said to adjust  the bed until there is resistance when pulling the cardstock through.  How much resistance should there be? 

On the Dremel Software, there is an advanced menu, and I can change the  layer height beyond 3 default settings (low, standard, high), which I  thought was locked out on the Dremel version (early reports indicated  many of the fine tuning features were crippled).

Dremel includes a nice stick on build tape that sticks on over top of the glass bed. 

So far it seems ok. I am getting some warping when printing items with non-supported edges. I also have a loss of detail on the bottom of the print where it mates against the bed. Is this inherent of all 3D printing, just as a nature of the melted material? I have objects that have thread patterns on them, and it does not thread properly when the thread is at the bottom of the print - I have to rework the start of the thread a little.

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## jfkansas

> I picked up the Dremel Idea Builder for $999 at my local Home Depot 2 nights ago. It is basically a re-badged Dreamer without a heated bed, and with a single print head (PLA Only), but it comes paired with a Dremel Warranty, and support. 
> 
> The Dreamer is a few bucks more, but it prints with various materials. 
> 
> Has anyone else looked at both or had time with both? I'm looking for feedback. This was my first 3D printer, so I wanted to make sure I had the opportunity for a local store return if it didn't do what I needed it to, it had issues, or didn't work within the first 30 days.
> 
> How much of a loss am I at with only having the 1 print head, non heated bed, and only able to use PVA? How bad is the smell with ABS? I plan on purchasing small parts for Astronomy and Night vision so hopefully PVA meets my needs. 
> 
> Thanks.


Don't get your PLA and PVA mixed up. Totally different filaments. PVA is only used as support material since it is dissolvable in water. You would need two print heads to make use of it also.

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## catalyst

Sorry, I meant PLA - typing too fast.

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## jfkansas

> The Dremel is indeed a joint venture with FlashForge. The Dremel team  indicated that some of the Dreamer parts were upgraded (bearings, fans,  motors - according to an Ask Dremel Q&A) as well. So far, I have  zero issue with my parts NOT sticking. In fact, I am almost the other  side of the spectrum - I broke a couple of the frogs I printed trying to  pry them off the surface. I am still trying to figure out the optimal  settings. 
> *
> One question* - for leveling, there was an included piece of cardstock  that I am to slide between the extruder and the bed. It said to adjust  the bed until there is resistance when pulling the cardstock through.  How much resistance should there be? 
> 
> On the Dremel Software, there is an advanced menu, and I can change the  layer height beyond 3 default settings (low, standard, high), which I  thought was locked out on the Dremel version (early reports indicated  many of the fine tuning features were crippled).
> 
> Dremel includes a nice stick on build tape that sticks on over top of the glass bed. 
> 
> So far it seems ok. I am getting some warping when printing items with non-supported edges. I also have a loss of detail on the bottom of the print where it mates against the bed. Is this inherent of all 3D printing, just as a nature of the melted material? I have objects that have thread patterns on them, and it does not thread properly when the thread is at the bottom of the print - I have to rework the start of the thread a little.


It is more important to have the same resistance at all adjustment points than the amount. Just make sure it touches the card and that should be ok. 

Just print at the Standard settings it should be .2mm layer height. 

Small threads are beyond the resolution capability of the printer. Plan on making the holes a little smaller then tapping.

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## ssayer

Having briefly owned the 3D20, the reason your parts are sticking too well is that you have the first layer too close (this is definitely a factor of the build surface that they provide). Move it back a little at a time until  you get the amount of stick that you want. 

I ended up returning mine because I felt that it was just too expensive for what I got (only PLA, no heated bed, somewhat crippled software, warranty voided by using 3rd party filaments, etc, etc...). In hindsight, I'm glad I did because the unit I bought to replace it was 200 dollars cheaper and does everything...

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## catalyst

> Having briefly owned the 3D20, the reason your parts are sticking too well is that you have the first layer too close (this is definitely a factor of the build surface that they provide). Move it back a little at a time until  you get the amount of stick that you want. 
> 
> I ended up returning mine because I felt that it was just too expensive for what I got (only PLA, no heated bed, somewhat crippled software, warranty voided by using 3rd party filaments, etc, etc...). In hindsight, I'm glad I did because the unit I bought to replace it was 200 dollars cheaper and does everything...


What did you end up getting, and are you happy with it?

The FlashForge Dreamer is currently $1299 with a $150 rebate. I am still not entirely sold on the Dremel. My local Microcenter also has a Creator Pro Clone (PowerSpec 3D Pro) for $799.

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## ssayer

Funny you should mention that one, I got the Powerspec 3D Pro for $799. I'm VERY happy with it.  :Wink:

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## catalyst

> Funny you should mention that one, I got the Powerspec 3D Pro for $799. I'm VERY happy with it.


Was there any additional setup or anything else? As a 3D Printer noob, will it be fairly simple to set up? This one was pretty much good to go out of the box. I would prefer to spend $799 if given the choice.

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## ssayer

Trying to remember back a few weeks... Seems like I had to screw in the Extruders on (a single block), put the door on (two hinges), attach the spool holders... don't really remember much else. It comes with Kapton tape on the aluminum table. That'll get you for a while. I went to the hardware store and had them cut me some 6x9 glass (I got 4 pieces because they were only charging me 2 bucks a piece). Aside from that, I printed up a couple mods that I saw on thingiverse and bought myself some 3M blue painter's tape, and have been printing merrily along. 

That said, I have since ordered some BuildTak which should be here tomorrow or Monday. It's basically the pad that you have on your bed. It'll go on one of the other removable pieces of glass...

None of this is a big deal though, it's not like it's a kit or anything...

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## catalyst

> Trying to remember back a few weeks... Seems like I had to screw in the Extruders on (a single block), put the door on (two hinges), attach the spool holders... don't really remember much else. It comes with Kapton tape on the aluminum table. That'll get you for a while. I went to the hardware store and had them cut me some 6x9 glass (I got 4 pieces because they were only charging me 2 bucks a piece). Aside from that, I printed up a couple mods that I saw on thingiverse and bought myself some 3M blue painter's tape, and have been printing merrily along. 
> 
> That said, I have since ordered some BuildTak which should be here tomorrow or Monday. It's basically the pad that you have on your bed. It'll go on one of the other removable pieces of glass...
> 
> None of this is a big deal though, it's not like it's a kit or anything...


Well, I picked up the PowerSpec 3D PRo from Microcenter. Any tips or advise - or what settings you've had success with would always be appreciated. I picked up 4 rolls of the Inland Filament at $14 per roll. 2 ABS, 1 PLA, and one HIPS (which they told me this is capable of printing). It was on sale for $799 - seems like a better deal than the Dremel Unit. The dremel package looks really nice though. They've really done well with its presentation.

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## ssayer

As a _general_ rule for me on my 3d Pro:

PLA - big blocky stuff with nothing wispy and no thin overhangs:
Extruder 195c, Glass plate 60c

PLA - wispy and/or overhangs:
Extruder 195c, 3M painters tape on unheated bed

ABS:
Extruder 230c, Glass plate 110c

Haven't done hips, but should be the same as ABS

I might be thinking differently so far as bed temps if the BuildTak works as well as a number of people have said that it does. That said, I've already read enough that I know that what works for one person may or may not work for another...  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## catalyst

> As a _general_ rule for me on my 3d Pro:
> 
> PLA - big blocky stuff with nothing wispy and no thin overhangs:
> Extruder 195c, Glass plate 60c
> 
> PLA - wispy and/or overhangs:
> Extruder 195c, 3M painters tape on unheated bed
> 
> ABS:
> ...


So the buildtak can stay on at all times for both the ABS and PLA and you can still heat the bed? Sorry - I'm still new to this.

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## ssayer

> So the buildtak can stay on at all times for both the ABS and PLA and you can still heat the bed? Sorry - I'm still new to this.


Yep. The only minus on it that I've read about is that it sticks _too_ well if you don't have the spacing from the extruder to the bed far enough apart. Thus my first post to you in this thread.

Of course, I'm only speaking from other people's experiences at this point. I'll either have it in my grubby little hands Saturday or Monday to give 1st hand experiences with it.  :Wink:

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## catalyst

yeah, it stuck so well I ended up with a $500 pair of legless frogs... I also noticed that it seemed to work better the more it was used, too.

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