# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > FlashForge Forum >  Printer noob - Can't print consistently on FFCX

## lucidpsykosis

I have multiple problems that I hope you guys can help with. I've had my FF Creator X for a week now, and have had mixed results. I'll start with the ABS. Before I printed a thing, I read through all of Geoff's posts (thank you Geoff!), hoping to minimize the wasted time of figuring it out myself (caution, noob here). So, with the printer comes two spools of white and blue ABS. I set the extruder to 230º, and 106º for the table. Cleaned it with alcohol, and leveled it. I set up my simple print with settings of: 15% infill, .2 resolution, 1 shell, and 50F/80T. I tried the white and the blue, both printed messy and lifted off the table. I changed the table temp down 5º, then another 5º...still kept lifting. I said screw it and loaded a white PLA spool to try. Those settings were: 190º/75º, 15% infill, .2 resolution, 1 shell, 50F/80T. Now we're talking! It stuck great to the table, but in various places it tore up or missed lines (see pic below). Then I tried blue PLA with the same settings...holy hell what happened!? It printed horrible, and lifted...what the french toast is going on?! I read one of Geoff's comments that color can affect temp so I raised and lowered it by 10º and got spotty change. I'm sure its something that I'm missing, since I'm a complete noob at all this, but I really want to get it right. If anyone has any suggestions, please drop a reply. Oh, I'm also still printing on the yellow tape...Friday I'm going down to get a sheet of 1/8" glass. So to summarize, 1) why is the ABS lifting and printing messy? 2) why is the blue PLA printing crappy vs. the white PLA? 3) how can I get smoother prints on the first layer? Oh, and is there a trick to printing off the SD card? I put .stl files on there, but it doesn't see them. The only thing on the menu is "exit menu". Thanks again for any help given.
2014-07-16 14.56.46.jpg

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## Geoff

> I have multiple problems that I hope you guys can help with. I've had my FF Creator X for a week now, and have had mixed results. I'll start with the ABS. Before I printed a thing, I read through all of Geoff's posts (thank you Geoff!), hoping to minimize the wasted time of figuring it out myself (caution, noob here). So, with the printer comes two spools of white and blue ABS. I set the extruder to 230º, and 106º for the table. Cleaned it with alcohol, and leveled it. I set up my simple print with settings of: 15% infill, .2 resolution, 1 shell, and 50F/80T. I tried the white and the blue, both printed messy and lifted off the table. I changed the table temp down 5º, then another 5º...still kept lifting. I said screw it and loaded a white PLA spool to try. Those settings were: 190º/75º, 15% infill, .2 resolution, 1 shell, 50F/80T. Now we're talking! It stuck great to the table, but in various places it tore up or missed lines (see pic below). Then I tried blue PLA with the same settings...holy hell what happened!? It printed horrible, and lifted...what the french toast is going on?! I read one of Geoff's comments that color can affect temp so I raised and lowered it by 10º and got spotty change. I'm sure its something that I'm missing, since I'm a complete noob at all this, but I really want to get it right. If anyone has any suggestions, please drop a reply. Oh, I'm also still printing on the yellow tape...Friday I'm going down to get a sheet of 1/8" glass. So to summarize, 1) why is the ABS lifting and printing messy? 2) why is the blue PLA printing crappy vs. the white PLA? 3) how can I get smoother prints on the first layer? Oh, and is there a trick to printing off the SD card? I put .stl files on there, but it doesn't see them. The only thing on the menu is "exit menu". Thanks again for any help given.
> 2014-07-16 14.56.46.jpg


Hi!
Ok well, looking at your picture I can see one issue,your hot bed is not level. I can see good tight layering at the top, but your lines are further apart at the bottom, and  the goopy hole in the bottom left would be because at that point, your extruder was too far from the surface and could not extrude onto the plate so the bottom left of your plate needs to come up a fraction. If it is an autolevelling system, I would try it again a few times- I calibrate my hotbed daily. , but it's a manual thumbscrew system

*White PLA issue
1. Recalibrate hotbed - you are printing too close or too far away on some areas of the plate.
*Your nozzle is hot, the bed is not - (I consider anything under 80c a cold or PLA hotplate) so the nozzle is too close to the already extruded PLA and is melting it.
I use a piece of A4 paper for calibrating, when I feel friction between the paper and the plate and nozzle, that's where I leave it.

PLA can print anywhere from 120c to 200c... if you are getting goopy prints at 190c, go down to 180 - still goopy? go to 170 and basically keep going until you are happy with the consitency. If it wont print and goes CLICK CLICK! you know you are too low.

*Blue ABS issue

*Your settings for ABS are ideal, but if you are not getting stick with ABS, it works the OPPOSITE to PLA. More heat, means more stick - raise the bed temperature to 110-112c

When you heat a bed with PLA too much, it lifts. When you DON'T heat a bed with ABS enough, it lifts. 

BUT there is a limit. To hot and the ABS will curl during printing due to rising heat, so please follow the below steps and see if it helps.

*Printing ABS*
1. Set your *preheat* temperatures to 232c and 112c.
2. When you print, *print* at 230c and 110c. Why did we set preheat higher? because you lose heat when you start a job, all the home axes and movements lose time and heat, ignore the little screen. The thermistors are good but always lag behind the actual heat a little. That few degrees means life or death for a print. Starting the print when the plate is hotter than printing ensures a really good stick on the first layer and then as it cools a couple of degrees, does not affect the first few print layers, which are the most important.

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## jfkansas

There is no need to preheat the extruder, the extruder doesn't take much time at all to get up to temp. It is most important to get the build plate fully heated and then level it. The plastic platform sags to the front when it all gets heated up.

Under preheat settings on the front panel turn preheat platform to yes and extruder to no. Reason, I don't like leveling the plate with a piece of paper with the extruder at 450F. Also usually when the extruder is fully heated it will seep a little material and this interferes with setting the plate gap.

Order of operations to start a print goes like this. Start slicer on computer so it is running, sometimes this takes several minutes.  Preheat build plate. When you start preheating you can back out of the menu and go to home axes, it will still preheat when you go to another menu. Home axes and start getting things set as good as you can using a post it note for setting the gap. It is right when you can slide the note under the extruder with a little resistance. Get all 3 thumb screws set as best you can, you can manually move the print head to the front right and left then back and forth a couple times. The right side affects the left side and vise versa so go back and forth a few times until both sides are good. Then set the back gap.  Let the build plate get fully up to temp then check the front again, it probably dropped a little so reset the gap. After all that then get the file copied to the SD card and start printing. 

This sounds like a lot to get a print started but it only takes a few minutes to do. 

The most important thing not to do is level the build plate again cold and adjust the front, it will just go out of whack again when it heats up.

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## Geoff

> There is no need to preheat the extruder, the extruder doesn't take much time at all to get up to temp. It is most important to get the build plate fully heated and then level it. The plastic platform sags to the front when it all gets heated up.
> 
> Under preheat settings on the front panel turn preheat platform to yes and extruder to no. Reason, I don't like leveling the plate with a piece of paper with the extruder at 450F. Also usually when the extruder is fully heated it will seep a little material and this interferes with setting the plate gap.
> 
> Order of operations to start a print goes like this. Start slicer on computer so it is running, sometimes this takes several minutes.  Preheat build plate. When you start preheating you can back out of the menu and go to home axes, it will still preheat when you go to another menu. Home axes and start getting things set as good as you can using a post it note for setting the gap. It is right when you can slide the note under the extruder with a little resistance. Get all 3 thumb screws set as best you can, you can manually move the print head to the front right and left then back and forth a couple times. The right side affects the left side and vise versa so go back and forth a few times until both sides are good. Then set the back gap.  Let the build plate get fully up to temp then check the front again, it probably dropped a little so reset the gap. After all that then get the file copied to the SD card and start printing. 
> 
> This sounds like a lot to get a print started but it only takes a few minutes to do. 
> 
> The most important thing not to do is level the build plate again cold and adjust the front, it will just go out of whack again when it heats up.


Hi, I'd appreciate it if you let him try before discrediting my suggestion. 

I did not say he needs to preheat before leveling, it seems you didn't actually read what I posted.  The preheat was before printing, and yes it does make a difference.  We all know the heatbed heats up first, and then the extruder - it makes absolutely no difference in what order you preheat them, other than the heatbed taking considerably longer, but that is understandable given its transferring heat and not generating it like the nozzle element. The fact I was trying to point out to him was to preheat his bed slightly hotter than he intended to print, so the starting layers had more stick and the following layers printed at the set temp.

I think I sort of also mentioned he needs to level his bed, but I assumed he already had a grasp of how to do that since he head already successfully started printing.

People say "Dont use paper, use a business card!"

Well, that's great if you are printing chunky prints at 0.3mm or 0.4mm. I work in high tolerances of 0.1 to 0.2mm. I don't know if you have ever tried, but you would know that when you lower the resolution of your print (or raise it in this case) you also affect the Z starting position. If you are printing at 0.3mm the platform will start much lower than you would at 0.2mm, this makes a difference.

If you are printing raftless at 0.1mm, and you have levelled your bed using a business card, the card is too thick at over 120gsm, meaning your nozzle is too high off the platform to perform its initial layer at 0.1mm raftless.

There is alot more to the levelling than just getting it right and printing, it's not a one-in-all solution. 

Printing thick and chunky? use a business card.

Printing nice, thin and smooth? use something that is between 60 and 80gsm. If your nozzle cannot go this close there is crap in it.

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## jfkansas

All preheating happens automatically before printing. It is just most important to preheat the bed, level, then print.

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## lucidpsykosis

Thank you so much for breaking it down.  I was about to pull my hair out.  Right off the bat, I can see my first mistake...I was using a business card to level the table; I'll work on getting it better leveled.  In my opinion, having three points to level is harder than four.  I say that because when I try to level the back of the bed, sometimes one extruder is looser and the other tighter.  I guess I'll just keep trying till I get it right.  Thank you again Geoff, as always you're a major help.

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## lucidpsykosis

Geoff, I also forgot to ask, how do I get my printer to see the files on the SD card?  I use ReplicatorG, and selected to have the files written as a .s3g file, then copied to the SD card...but they don't show up when I choose "print from SD card"?

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## jfkansas

3 points for leveling is all that is needed for a solid surface, 1 to control front to back pitch and 2 for side to side tilt. 4 points on a soild surface and a couple of the points will always be fighting each other. Now 4 points is a more stable surfaces because of more support. But nothing really puts downward pressure on the table.

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## lucidpsykosis

This blows...I re-leveled the plate using a sheet of paper, only to tear the Kapton film when I started to print my next piece...FML.  I'm thinking this printer idea was a bad one.  I just wanted to make replacement / add on parts for my RC drones / cars, and anything else that seemed useful.

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## jfkansas

> This blows...I re-leveled the plate using a sheet of paper, only to tear the Kapton film when I started to print my next piece...FML.  I'm thinking this printer idea was a bad one.  I just wanted to make replacement / add on parts for my RC drones / cars, and anything else that seemed useful.


Lol, wow, thats almost impossible to do unless you bump the build plate and it lowers a little when you are leveling it. This throws off the z height because you end up raising the plate up too high to level it. Ditch the Krapton all together anyway, glass is the way to go. Get 2-3 3/16" glass borosilicate from Mcmaster-Carr. Really 2 is enough.

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## lucidpsykosis

> Lol, wow, thats almost impossible to do unless you bump the build plate and it lowers a little when you are leveling it. This throws off the z height because you end up raising the plate up too high to level it. Ditch the Krapton all together anyway, glass is the way to go. Get 2-3 3/16" glass borosilicate from Mcmaster-Carr. Really 2 is enough.


yeah after I did that I saw a post with someone mentioning that stuff.  Then again, I might look at sending this FF back and getting that new Swedish one called ZYYX, but I can't find any reviews on it yet.

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## Roxy

> This blows...I re-leveled the plate using a sheet of paper, only to tear the Kapton film when I started to print my next piece...FML.  I'm thinking this printer idea was a bad one.  I just wanted to make replacement / add on parts for my RC drones / cars, and anything else that seemed useful.


And that is why auto bed leveling is so nice.    Maybe you should print up a Z-Probe to put on your extruder?

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## jfkansas

Auto leveling isn't needed at all. Too much involved in doing it right and would cost too much to make it worth it. Leveling and setting the gap isn't a big deal at all really.

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## lucidpsykosis

what does it mean when the front, back and sides feel right but the center is tight?

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## lucidpsykosis

> And that is why auto bed leveling is so nice.    Maybe you should print up a Z-Probe to put on your extruder?


 How does one make that?  I think I saw one on Thingiverse, but I don't know how to use it.

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## Roxy

> How does one make that?  I think I saw one on Thingiverse, but I don't know how to use it.


Basically, you change your Marlin firmware to have auto bed leveling turned on.   The only other thing you do is get a cheap servo off of eBay to kick down a leg with the Z-Limit switch on it.   

If you can run a Wade's extruder on your machine, check out:   http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...light=Wade%27s

You will see where the probe goes and how the servo mounts into the extruder.

You would just order a servo such as this to fit into the extruder and then print up the parts:  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-x-SG90-...item4623c4e449

And if you run the Enhanced G29 Auto Bed Leveling command found here:

http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ed-G29-command

You will get lots of help getting it going!

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## jfkansas

> Basically, you change your Marlin firmware to have auto bed leveling turned on.   The only other thing you do is get a cheap servo off of eBay to kick down a leg with the Z-Limit switch on it.   
> 
> If you can run a Wade's extruder on your machine, check out:   http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...light=Wade%27s
> 
> You will see where the probe goes and how the servo mounts into the extruder.
> 
> You would just order a servo such as this to fit into the extruder and then print up the parts:  
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-x-SG90-...item4623c4e449
> ...



Bad idea even suggesting contraption like that to someone so new to printing 3d, and I doubt it would even fit the Flashforge let alone getting it to electronically function properly. Adding any extra weight to the print head is a very bad idea also. It just causes more wear and tear on the mechanisms and worse print quality even at lower speeds. The best thing you can do to a Flash Forge Dual head is remove the left side stepper and heater block and all the wiring especially if you don't plan on doing Dualstrusion. 

Auto bed leveling would be very complicated to automate due to having to calculate 3 different heights on the build plate. Leveling and just setting z height are two entirely different scenarios.

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## jfkansas

> what does it mean when the front, back and sides feel right but the center is tight?


That is normal, the print head sags very slightly in the middle. I usually level the bed perfectly with a postit note, then every so slighty tighten each thumbscrew just a tiny amount. Do all 3 the same. But it will print fine when the print head is a little closer to the build plate. 

 It helps if you decrease the weight of the print head by removing the unused stepper motor at least when not in use.

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## Roxy

> Bad idea even suggesting contraption like that to someone so new to printing 3d, and I doubt it would even fit the Flashforge let alone getting it to electronically function properly. Adding any extra weight to the print head is a very bad idea also. It just causes more wear and tear on the mechanisms and worse print quality even at lower speeds. The best thing you can do to a Flash Forge Dual head is remove the left side stepper and heater block and all the wiring especially if you don't plan on doing Dualstrusion. 
> 
> Auto bed leveling would be very complicated to automate due to having to calculate 3 different heights on the build plate. Leveling and just setting z height are two entirely different scenarios.


Mostly, that thread was given so he could see what was involved to get a suitable probe.    The Wade's extruder I have is heavy.   There is no doubt about that!

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## Geoff

> Auto leveling isn't needed at all. Too much involved in doing it right and would cost too much to make it worth it. Leveling and setting the gap isn't a big deal at all really.


You can do autolevelling for under $40. 

Really mate, you need to stop dissing peoples responses on here or automatically assuming them incorrect or telling someone else that it's not needed.

*If you have a suggestion, give it - but don't keep jumping on suggestions people give, it's getting pretty apparent now.*

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## jfkansas

Show me 1. where 3 point auto leveling can be done reliably on a flashforge for $40, and is "plug-in" compatible with the Creator X or Pro and is supportd in firmware...   2. Why would you even want to? Especially if it adds significant weight to the moving mechanisms. Manual leveling works just fine once you learn how. 

I have made some mods to my creator x to make this much more reliable though. I added the creator pro metal platform and z axis rods. Incredible difference this makes. I would start there if anything, it isn't a super difficult swap but it does require quite a bit of disassembly. You don't have to take the top rail completely off, but almost. 

Lately I have seen suggestions for a new user to try and usually it is way off base or "seen on another printer". These new users can't even get a 20mm square calibration box to print right and people are suggesting to hack up their machine and wire up a bunch of add ons and none of them fix the actual root cause of the problem. Sorry this irritates me. The Flash forge Creator X is 90% fine just the way it is. Learn to use it and it creates incredible parts. The other 10% is updating to the newer platform and (if you don't use 2 extruders at the same time) removing one (left) stepper, related wiring, and print head.

Using this setup I have had good results printing as fast as 120mm/s on larger parts. Huge increase in speed over the 60-80mm/s you are limited to with the heavier dual heads.

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## lucidpsykosis

I wholeheartedly appreciate all your suggestions and help.  I have been considering removing the left extruder, but not sure how to do it though.

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## jfkansas

It really isn't difficult, but removing it doesn't fix the root cause of your issues. I am betting on 2 things. 1. When the build plate is heated the front sags and is too far away from the extruder. Fix, you need to fully heat the build plate and then level all three screws. 2. you need a front cover for the machine to block airflow through the machine (For ABS only though). It is easy to make. Just need a 10"x15" piece of plexi from the hardware store and some 3m clips to hold it on. Total cost is about 10-15 bux.  

For future upgrade I would get the Creator Pro platform upgrade. Totally worth it.

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## lucidpsykosis

I'll try the first two points tomorrow...thanks

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## lucidpsykosis

Today I started with a new roll of Black PET+ filament that I got in the mail.  Heated the plate and leveled it the best I could.  I was able to print a piece that turned out remarkably well.  When I then tried to print another piece, it started messing up halfway through the first layer.  I remembered a video I watched from an engineer who rough leveled his plate with a depth micrometer, then printed a .1mm thick print and adjusted the corners as he went...I tried that (minus the depth mic) and got it dialed in pretty good.  The only downside is, my print has marks on the bottom from all the little tears in the Kapton tape.  When my glass gets delivered, I should be good to go I think.  BTW, how to I compensate for the glass thickness (1/8) so it doesn't shatter when the extruders come down?

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## lucidpsykosis

Geoff, you were right about the painters tape...I don't like the finish either.

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## Peet@FFUSA

> Today I started with a new roll of Black PET+ filament that I got in the mail.  Heated the plate and leveled it the best I could.  I was able to print a piece that turned out remarkably well.  When I then tried to print another piece, it started messing up halfway through the first layer.  I remembered a video I watched from an engineer who rough leveled his plate with a depth micrometer, then printed a .1mm thick print and adjusted the corners as he went...I tried that (minus the depth mic) and got it dialed in pretty good.  The only downside is, my print has marks on the bottom from all the little tears in the Kapton tape.  When my glass gets delivered, I should be good to go I think.  BTW, how to I compensate for the glass thickness (1/8) so it doesn't shatter when the extruders come down?



Download and print a Creator X Z-axis offset. Rest it on the the build platform support behind the build plate and you're good to go! Double check that the height of the Z-axis shim is the same as the thickness of the glass.

If you want to print with ultra-fine resolution (eg. 80 microns), a good recommendation is to level with a feeler gauge.  :Cool: 

Peter

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## curious aardvark

> 2. Why would you even want to?


seriously ? you can't see why someone would want autoleveling ? 
Wow.

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## jfkansas

Not for the cost and machine complexity involved. It isn't worth $1000 bucks. 

Someone said there is autoleveling for $40 bucks, I have yet to see a link to that piece of hardware. lol.  Once you are leveled and have a solid build plate platform, the z-axis switch takes care of your build plate height in relation to the nozzle. This is set every time a print is started.

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## Teledog

> Geoff, I also forgot to ask, how do I get my printer to see the files on the SD card?  I use ReplicatorG, and selected to have the files written as a .s3g file, then copied to the SD card...but they don't show up when I choose "print from SD card"?


Had the same problem here, a file name error ..the file has to be .X3G not .S3G ("files of type"  drop down menu, save as .X3G)
Also I find more prints "gronk" via the SD card (perhaps because I've extended it?) I always use the PC now.
While I'm here, I have to say Geoff offers really good help.
Having said that, my FFCx runs a bit differently, most of my ABS runs the best at 222C, the hotbed at 102C with Kapton, mostly without rafts.
If it doesn't stick, I use the ABS glue (with MEK).
Also, on the bed leveling, I level it hot (~110C) with a sheet of plain paper, it may take a few go-rounds to get it right, but to be honest, I haven't leveled it in weeks, and yes I run it almost every day @0.22 resolution.
I snap off the prints with a chunk of oak stick & rubber mallet after the bed has cooled to ~80C (sounds crude, but it works), tap it at the base.
Just make sure you preheat the bed to allow it to stabilize before running a print.
Pics of some older & newer prints..and FFCx front panel mods (front lighted switch, plastic front cover, SD card extension)
My 2 cents anyway.
Cheers!
TD
sample projects.jpgfront panel mods.jpg

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## Geoff

> Not for the cost and machine complexity involved. It isn't worth $1000 bucks. 
> 
> Someone said there is autoleveling for $40 bucks, I have yet to see a link to that piece of hardware. lol.  Once you are leveled and have a solid build plate platform, the z-axis switch takes care of your build plate height in relation to the nozzle. This is set every time a print is started.


Then you are very inexperienced in simple electronics. It can be done for even less than $40, I was being safe at $40.  What exactly do you think a Z probe is? LOL There are 8 ways to make one that I can think of using normal components lying around the house. An old VCR would pretty much give you all the components you need - but you knew that of course didnt you?

Stop being such a douchebag and jumping on everyones suggestions. I've been reading your posts and that's all you seem to do lately.

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## palawanisland

warning : Mcmaster-Carr does not entertain new customer.

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## Roxy

> Then you are very inexperienced in simple electronics. It can be done for even less than $40, I was being safe at $40.  What exactly do you think a Z probe is? LOL There are 8 ways to make one that I can think of using normal components lying around the house. An old VCR would pretty much give you all the components you need - but you knew that of course didnt you?
> 
> Stop being such a douchebag and jumping on everyones suggestions. I've been reading your posts and that's all you seem to do lately.


The actual post he used as an excuse to jump on me had a link for a servo (with shipping) that ended up selling for $1.79 on eBay.  Also in that post was a link to the information about getting a cheap micro-switch on eBay for $1.00.    I understand some people may want higher quality parts but I'm getting good results with those parts that can be had for under $3.00.   

There is going to be a few more cents of plastic to make a Z-Probe Leg and maybe a few more cents for a nylon zip tie wrap to hold the Servo if you don't print up a nice mount for it.   But this can clearly be done for under $5.00 without even trying hard.

So as it turns out.... 


> I have yet to see a link to that piece of hardware. lol.


  Is not true at all.

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## jfkansas

Point me to where all three leveling screws are adjusted automatically via a $1.79 part.

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## Geoff

> Point me to where all three leveling screws are adjusted automatically via a $1.79 part.


I guess I'm more resourceful than I thought then...

Via 4 x $6.29 part, high torque metal geared servo, an ATtiny mega chip for $5 (provided you have a preexisting arduinio or similar to flash the tinyMega) some good eyesight, the IR sensors from a VCR and it's remote and a fine tip soldering iron.  

OR even better - go and dumpster dive at a phone company and grab 4 spare handset lifters, each of which contain metal geared servos that have over 1kg of torque (as in real torque, not this BS hobby torque rating), more than is required for levelling screws.

OR if you have an extra $50, google for the guy that hacked a Gibson robot guitar and shows how to re-create the winding mechanism for your own auto tuning guitar - a mechanism that simultaneously and individually adjusts between 6 and 8 tuning knobs. We only need to worry about 4, and we are not tuning the thing, we are getting it level. 

OR you could use an arduino and a laser pointer and a reflective reference and just use your fingers for less than $30.


I could go on... But these are 3D printers yeah, essentially you have a machine that can create the entire system housing for you, you are simply adding electronics and assembly. I am building my prusa on friday, I will add an auto level to it for as cheap as I possibly can.  I will make it independant seeing the prusa doesn't have a raising Z level.

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## Roxy

> Point me to where all three leveling screws are adjusted automatically via a $1.79 part.


Ah...   Is it possible the leveling screws are not adjusted automatically when you do Auto Bed Leveling?   Is it possible that software is working some magic?

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

--HERBERT SPENCER

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## Geoff

> Ah...   Is it possible the leveling screws are not adjusted automatically when you do Auto Bed Leveling?   Is it possible that software is working some magic?"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
> 
> --HERBERT SPENCER


I have the calluses to prove you can level your bed effectively for 0$  :Smile:

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## lucidpsykosis

> Download and print a Creator X Z-axis offset. Rest it on the the build platform support behind the build plate and you're good to go! Double check that the height of the Z-axis shim is the same as the thickness of the glass.
> 
> If you want to print with ultra-fine resolution (eg. 80 microns), a good recommendation is to level with a feeler gauge. 
> 
> Peter


Thanks Peter  :Smile:   I printed the offset, and it works great.  Glass is working out soooo much better than the tape; I guess its just what happens when you're new at this and you make mistakes.  Anywho, I got it where I can see how the filament is being laid out, and how to adjust for it, so that's a good thing.  The best I've been able to print with a fair amount of decency is .1 mm...didn't know if I could push it more than that with this printer.

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## Geoff

> Thanks Peter   I printed the offset, and it works great.  Glass is working out soooo much better than the tape; I guess its just what happens when you're new at this and you make mistakes.  Anywho, I got it where I can see how the filament is being laid out, and how to adjust for it, so that's a good thing.  The best I've been able to print with a fair amount of decency is .1 mm...didn't know if I could push it more than that with this printer.


It has alot to do with the filament you use as well, some filaments will not do 0.1 due to their tolerance. I have 3 rolls of Red ABS here, all different suppliers. One can print at 0.1mm no problems, the other two struggle, and prefer 0.2mm, it's very easy to see when you print. You can vary temperatures to make the adjustment but essentially there is only so much you can do before you are limited by the filaments capability.

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## lucidpsykosis

> Had the same problem here, a file name error ..the file has to be .X3G not .S3G ("files of type"  drop down menu, save as .X3G)
> Also I find more prints "gronk" via the SD card (perhaps because I've extended it?) I always use the PC now.
> While I'm here, I have to say Geoff offers really good help.
> Having said that, my FFCx runs a bit differently, most of my ABS runs the best at 222C, the hotbed at 102C with Kapton, mostly without rafts.
> If it doesn't stick, I use the ABS glue (with MEK).
> Also, on the bed leveling, I level it hot (~110C) with a sheet of plain paper, it may take a few go-rounds to get it right, but to be honest, I haven't leveled it in weeks, and yes I run it almost every day @0.22 resolution.
> I snap off the prints with a chunk of oak stick & rubber mallet after the bed has cooled to ~80C (sounds crude, but it works), tap it at the base.
> Just make sure you preheat the bed to allow it to stabilize before running a print.
> Pics of some older & newer prints..and FFCx front panel mods (front lighted switch, plastic front cover, SD card extension)
> ...


LMAO "stool sample"...thats awesome. Thank you for the info, very much appreciated...and yes, if it weren't for a lot of Geoff's posts I would've been sending this thing back in the first week.  Having said that, since then I've had a lot of good help from many people.  Your prints are amazing, I hope I can get mine to look that smooth at some point.  Since I got that roll of PET+, I haven't really gone back to trying ABS or PLA, maybe now that I'm better acquainted with my FFCx, I might give it a go.  How did you do your power switch?

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## lucidpsykosis

> I guess I'm more resourceful than I thought then...
> 
> Via 4 x $6.29 part, high torque metal geared servo, an ATtiny mega chip for $5 (provided you have a preexisting arduinio or similar to flash the tinyMega) some good eyesight, the IR sensors from a VCR and it's remote and a fine tip soldering iron.  
> 
> OR even better - go and dumpster dive at a phone company and grab 4 spare handset lifters, each of which contain metal geared servos that have over 1kg of torque (as in real torque, not this BS hobby torque rating), more than is required for levelling screws.
> 
> OR if you have an extra $50, google for the guy that hacked a Gibson robot guitar and shows how to re-create the winding mechanism for your own auto tuning guitar - a mechanism that simultaneously and individually adjusts between 6 and 8 tuning knobs. We only need to worry about 4, and we are not tuning the thing, we are getting it level. 
> 
> OR you could use an arduino and a laser pointer and a reflective reference and just use your fingers for less than $30.
> ...


You seriously should do an Instructable.  I wouldn't even know where to start with any of that, but it sounds amazing.  If your prusa is done, will you upload pics?

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## Geoff

> You seriously should do an Instructable.  I wouldn't even know where to start with any of that, but it sounds amazing.  If your prusa is done, will you upload pics?


Yeah sure, it's been shipped and happily on it's way here now  :Smile:  

It comes with a perspex frame but since they are pre-cut I am going to have those made into aluminium templates (I will have several made at the same time, might as well, if the build goes well it will be something I could offload, tho im not into the kickstarter thing, I'd just sell one here or there)

Living in the country now it's alot easier to get that sort of thing done, I pass 10 metal workers driving from here into town, as soon as I get these perspex pieces Ill have them just laser trace them and cut me some. I've seen people charging $300 for metal cases, they are not that pricey!

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## curious aardvark

from what I've seen the autolevelling does not actual level the printer plate. It adjusts the offsets within the firmware so that the printer knows exactly how the plate is angled and adjust s for that. There's a video on youtube where a guy autolevels at a 30 degree angle and it prints fine because the printer knows about the angle. 

Now that's going to be impractical with a dual head system. 

But essentially it's the firmware that adjusts not the print table. 

And to the guy having printing problems. 

put some blue painters tape on the bed, use makerware NOT replicatorg. Use a raft and 120-130c for bed and 230 for head. Using these settings I've had 100% success in the last 24 hours. 
And orient the print so it's front to back - not side to side. 

Print speed - between 60-75mms move speed i just leave at 100. 
This is with the white abs that came with the printer. 

The raft from makerware peels off really easy - in fact the bigger the print the easier it comes off, the raft from rep-g does not peel off at all !

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## lucidpsykosis

> from what I've seen the autolevelling does not actual level the printer plate. It adjusts the offsets within the firmware so that the printer knows exactly how the plate is angled and adjust s for that. There's a video on youtube where a guy autolevels at a 30 degree angle and it prints fine because the printer knows about the angle. 
> 
> Now that's going to be impractical with a dual head system. 
> 
> But essentially it's the firmware that adjusts not the print table. 
> 
> And to the guy having printing problems. 
> 
> put some blue painters tape on the bed, use makerware NOT replicatorg. Use a raft and 120-130c for bed and 230 for head. Using these settings I've had 100% success in the last 24 hours. 
> ...


So I've decided to give PET a break and go back to trying ABS.  I tried it at your settings (with Makerware), the raft started peeling off just as the part started printing...I think Geoff stated that if its peeling/warping, the bed's too hot, so I'm going to drop it back down.  Now, to be honest, I wasn't printing on blue tape; I hate the texture on the bottom.  I have no idea how people print on plain glass, and still have it stick...I guess I might have to make up some of that ABS juice.  That should still give me a somewhat shiny base.

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## curious aardvark

> Now, to be honest, I wasn't printing on blue tape; I hate the texture on the bottom.


then it won't stick - period. Conditions for working prints are situation specific. If I give you specs for blue tape printing and you don't use blue tape - It's not my settings that are wrong.
And don't forget the tape pattern is on the bottom of the RAFT. 
If you don't like that - then you'll hate the pattern the raft leaves :-)

That said - I couldn't give a rat's arse what the microscopic texture on the base of something is. Hell if it matters that much sand it with 600 & 1000 grit and then wipe it with acetone. That'll get it smooth as a baby's behind :-)
We're all different. 

if the rafts warping - the plate heat is too low. 

Printing on abs deposited by acetone doe work quite well - not as well as blue tape - but I have had prints with it. 

For me the drawback is the you have to repaint the bed after every print and that means using a lot of acetone that you end up breathing in. 
The tape, so far shows zero signs of wear. works every time in  a predictable manner and will be an absolute doddle to replace should I ever need to. 

Currently printing a full size stanford bunny at .4 layer height and 75cms speed. Interested to see if the ears are as good as the .2 prints :-) 


Did a big print last night with plate at 130. Had minor curl right at the front of the plate. basically there's  a hot spot about 4 inches wide in line with the power plug to the bed, that starts to cool down about 4 inches out. Hence curl on the shuttle's tail but nowhere else in the print.
shuttlecurl_800x470.jpg

8 hour print and that was the only issue. 

Even with rafts the blue tape is the only thing I've been able to get abs to stick to reliably - and it works best at lots of heat.

Didn't try the abs paint at anything higher than 110 - and it was okay, but nowhere near as realiable or easy to use as the blue tape.

Another way to get smooth base is to simply paint it with abs 'paint'. More acetone - but is real quick and works :-)

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## lucidpsykosis

I got the ABS to print pretty good, using the blue tape, platform at 120 and the extruder to 230.  When I tried it with the raft, not only would the raft start to lift at the start of printing the part, but the raft was VERY secured on to the part...like it melted together.  So, I ditched the raft, and go the part to stay attached for about halfway through the print, then it started to come up.  I hate ABS with a white-hot passion  :Mad: .  I went back to using PET+ and a purple glue stick, which omg it worked great for it; the parts look phenomenal.  I may have to just stick with that since I just can't get the hang of printing ABS completely.  Thanks again for the help.

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## RobH2

I'm glad you have found love for PET+. Since one of the guys turned me onto it a few months ago I've never looked back. Unless I need to smooth, I never use ABS anymore. A bunch of posts ago in this thread you were doubting if buying the printer was a good idea. I'm glad you stuck with it and are enjoying it. Everyone goes through a tough learning and configuring period. But, once you come out on the other side with a few successes, things seem to take off.

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## kdurbs

I'm a newbie as well, so I'm curious. Did you fix your issue, or did you throw in the towel? I'm having similar problems.

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## kdurbs

Never mind. Didn't realize I wasn't at the end of the thread. Very informative. It should help a great deal.

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## jdg56

Sigh,

I just posted a response that was based on a few responses early in the thread. I'm pulling it. It was not quite on-topic.

Sorry.

Cheers,

John

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## Geoff

Nah its cool, this issue bugs alot of people and a great solve is just to use a glue stick around the perimeter of where the print is going to go, this will give the edges a good stick throughout the print job.

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## curious aardvark

or use pla :-)

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## kdurbs

John,
I disagree. I read your post in the email alert and found it to be very helpful. It would be a good post for anyone just getting started. This is an incredible forum and appreciate the great advice. I bought my FF last week to print a prosthetic hand for my son. Until I found this forum I wasn't sure I'd ever figure it out to the point where we could start printing his hand. We're going to spend a couple weeks playing around with materials and settings before we try the hand. I'm thinking about starting a new Thread to show our progress with the "Hand Project" and solicit advice. Do you think that would be an appropriate use of this forum? Thanks!

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## jdg56

Thanks. I felt like I was being kind of snotty, and the thread went well beyond any short-read I gave it.

How old is your son? I saw a cool article this week:http://gizmodo.com/iron-man-prosthet...per-1647614019 . That is a great step up.

This forum is a great place to get information and support. All the best to you and your son, and your project! Please keep us informed!

Cheers,


John

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## Roxy

> I'm thinking about starting a new Thread to show our progress with the "Hand Project" and solicit advice. Do you think that would be an appropriate use of this forum? Thanks!


There is a section for Prosthetic's here at this forum.   If your problem is because you are using a FlashForge, you will probably get better results in this area.  But if the question is about problems making Prosthetic's, the other area might get you a better answer.

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## kdurbs

> There is a section for Prosthetic's here at this forum.   If your problem is because you are using a FlashForge, you will probably get better results in this area.  But if the question is about problems making Prosthetic's, the other area might get you a better answer.


Thanks. I just found it.

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## Ghosty

can i just say try geoff's advice, as pretty much everything he has told me, guided me, has been spot on. just waiting for a reply in my thread now ????.

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