# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  simplify3d

## beerdart

OMG 
Im not one to pay for software but after two days with a difficult print failing. I bit  the bullet and OMG the prints are amazing. I will give a full report after i print a few more but as of now wow.. First print all I did was input machine settings and hit print.

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## jimc

welcome to the club. i have been using it for a year and a half now. it has a quirk here and there but nothing really big and they are constantly improving. update are usually quarterly or so.

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## OldSourKraut

I too had a hard time justifying the cost of the program when Slic3r and Cura are open source. but after a couple of complex models took forever to slice or failed to slice i bit the bullet and purchased Simplyfy3d. lots of options for slicing and crazy fast at getting the job done.

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## Bassna

Yep been using since Christmas and I haven't touched another Slicer since.

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## adamfilip

I just bought it, first print looks awesome. makes the printed stuff i received from Makerfarm, look bad

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## gmay3

If anyone has pictures, I'd love to see some printed objects side by side sliced with open source vs closed just to see the difference.

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## adamfilip

I will do a print and do a comparison, with slic3r

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## Bassna

I will try to get some up later also. It's just so nice and easy to move around and do thing's in the S3D GUI in my opinion on top of the print's look great. My slight issue I have had is I don't think the default infill is as "strong" as it should be. Gonna look for a way to adjust the setting's to get good strength out of it

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## printbus

> If anyone has pictures, I'd love to see some printed objects side by side sliced with open source vs closed just to see the difference.


FWIW, I think that may be an unfair comparison since results are so dependent on settings.  Having used Slic3r, Cura and Simplify3D, my take is that you can get to quality prints quicker with Simplify3D and Cura than with Slic3r - at least I always had to futz with Slic3r settings before I got the results I wanted.  Cura and Simplify3D have just printed better from the start, and slice far, far quicker and have never hung on complex parts like Slic3r does. Again, settings can overcome the issue, but I found the amount of extrusion to be more accurate than with Slic3r and Cura.  Slic3r tends to be on the low side, and Cura seems to be on the high side. And then there's the crazy number of travel moves involved in anything sliced in Slic3r.  

My biggest "issue" with Cura was the way top solid layers are handled the same as infill.  In other words, you don't have the option to set infill to print as fast as the printer can and also set the top solid layers to print slow for quality.  Well, I guess multiple prints also suffered because Cura can't be set to do a retraction on layer shifts, an issue especially since Cura tends to always do layer shifts as the same spot in a print.  I don't care for the way settings are grouped in the native Cura, but Repetier-Host repackages the Cura Engine settings in way that made sense to me.  

The only gripe I have so far with Simplify3D as a slicer is that it won't readily handle single-wall items.  People have found ways to futz with settings to make it work, but at least for calibration items I'd rather not do that.  I do like the way all of the settings are included in the gcode files as comments - making it easy to go back and compare why some prints may have turned out better/worse than others.  As a printer host, I miss the gcode text viewer/editor built into Repetier-Host, and my setting-sensitive print blower is tough to set with the simple bar slider Simplify3D provides for the print cooler control.  They could at least show what numeric value the control is set to.

EDIT: For anyone interested, my current settings for all three are in this post of my build thread - RUNNING SUMMARY OF CONFIGURATION SETTINGS.

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## Bassna

> FWIW, I think that may be an unfair comparison since results are so dependent on settings.  Having used Slic3r, Cura and Simplify3D, my take is that you can get to quality prints quicker with Simplify3D and Cura than with Slic3r - at least I always had to futz with Slic3r settings before I got the results I wanted.  Cura and Simplify3D have just printed better from the start, and slice far, far quicker and have never hung on complex parts like Slic3r does. Again, settings can overcome the issue, but I found the amount of extrusion to be more accurate than with Slic3r and Cura.  Slic3r tends to be on the low side, and Cura seems to be on the high side.
> 
> My biggest "issue" with Cura was the way top solid layers are handled the same as infill.  In other words, you don't have the option to set infill to print as fast as the printer can and also set the top solid layers to print slow for quality.  Well, I guess multiple prints suffered because Cura can't be set to do a retraction on layer shifts, especially since Cura tends to always do layer shifts as the same spot in a print.  I don't care for the way settings are grouped in the native Cura, but Repetier-Host repackages the Cura Engine settings in way that made sense to me.  
> 
> The only gripe I have so far with Simplify3D as a slicer is that it won't readily handle single-wall items.  People have found ways to futz with settings to make it work, but at least for calibration items I'd rather not do that.  I do like the way all of the settings are included in the gcode files as comments - making it easy to go back and compare why some prints may have turned out better/worse than others.  As a printer host, I miss the gcode viewer/editor built into Repetier-Host, and my setting-sensitive print blower is tough to set with the simple bar slider Simplify3D provides for the print cooler control.  They could at least show what numeric value the control is set to.
> 
> EDIT: For anyone interested, my current settings for all three are in this post of my build thread - RUNNING SUMMARY OF CONFIGURATION SETTINGS.


This guy said it much better. Just thought I would also add that it's really nice for multiple object print's. I had 7 object's I imported, clicked 1 button to align them on the bed correctly and centered, and sliced and exported within minutes before I left for work. If not for S3D this morning, I would not have been able to start my 9 hour print before I left.  :Smile:

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## printbus

> If anyone has pictures, I'd love to see some printed objects side by side sliced with open source vs closed just to see the difference.


No comparison pictures, but I can offer this comparison - 

Make:2015 Shoot Out  negative space tolerance test: 
Slic3r 1.1.7: Three of five pins removable
Repetier-Host v1.0.6/Cura Engine: Two of five pins removable
Simplify3D v2.2.0: Four of five pins removeable

MakerFaire print-in-place articulated robot 65% model:
Slic3r 1.1.7: All eleven joints operable, but some took some careful teasing to get them working
Repetier-Host v1.0.6/Cura Engine: Only six of the eleven joints were operable, even after teasing
Simplify3D: All eleven joints operable, with little or no teasing needed on the final print

DISCLAIMER: These results are not from a controlled comparison test - for example, different filament ended up being used for each

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## beerdart

Some should never mess with settings.  :Wink:

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## AbuMaia

Can S3D save print setting profiles like Slic3r can? That's the only thing keeping me with Slic3r currently, along with the retraction settings as printbus mentioned.

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## Bassna

> Can S3D save print setting profiles like Slic3r can? That's the only thing keeping me with Slic3r currently, along with the retraction settings as printbus mentioned.


Yep. Gots all kinds of useful thing's. Should watch a few videos on youtube, it's worth lookin into

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## jimc

yes you can take any profile and save it. i have a processes folder. i make a process for about every material then i can save and load from there.

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## bkmartin

> Can S3D save print setting profiles like Slic3r can? That's the only thing keeping me with Slic3r currently, along with the retraction settings as printbus mentioned.


Cura has print profiles as well...

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## beerdart

Cura left 3DS right both with out of the box settings

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## Cameron

big difference there!

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## AbuMaia

It looks like the general shape is better defined by S3D, but the dual extrusion transitions are better on the Cura.

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## printbus

What is implied by "out of box settings"?  I interpret that to mean no changes to the settings were made at all, but that's not possible.  Neither software package is preconfigured to work with two extruders by default, and I'm not sure Simplify3D will even print without some configuration work.

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## curious aardvark

it's not bad - but the infill leaves gaps and isn't strong enough for some of the models I use. 
And dual extrusion is a bit crap at the moment. 

But on the whole it's pretty good. 

I'm hoping future improvements will justify it's cost :-)

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## jimc

caa, have you messed with the infill extrusion width setting in the new update. you wont get a stronger infill now with that. bump it up to 200% and watch what happens. the infill is super thick and completely solid from top to bottom. you'll need to also increase your outline overlap a little when you do this. bump that up to 30-40%. night and day difference.

as for dual ext. i dont do dual or have any experience with any of the settings but i have talked to guys that are running e3d hot end which have a short and sharp hot zone and they are printing with a tool change retraction real high. around 13-15mm for that hot end which is basically pulling the filament completely out of the heat. they are having next to zero oozing, keeping the hot end up to temp and not using any wiper walls. if your hot end has a longer hot zone then it will need to be retracted more. the idea is for you to completely remove the filament from heat.  just passing along along info on that.


here is a pic i borrowed showing the infill.

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## RobH2

I've been working to dial in my Itty Bitty for PLA and have finally gotten my oozing and stringing under control. Here's a torture test print that is a modification of one that's common on Thingiverse. I know it's a little wobbly looking but keep the scale in mind. That little tower is 18mm tall and 1mm in diameter. I never expected to be able to print that with a .4mm orifice hotend. I also got a nearly perfect bridge inside the box. The many and small imperfections seen here look rough, and also shot with a macro lens, but again, the scale is really small. On a normal print that is 5" across they wouldn't even be seen.

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## beerdart

How about posting the STL for the torture test.

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## RobH2

> RobH2 - I have never been able to print that  arch because as soon as it bridges from side to side at the top the  tension pulls the small piece off the bed.  if I set the settings so the  bridges aren't stretched at all  they sag and look terrible.  I see you  added a foot to the outboard end.  is there a secret to being able to  bridge this properly?


I couldn't get the arch to print  either for the same reason so I modified the model to have a larger foot  to stick that end down. I also shortened the whole thing so as not to  waste too much plastic and then I modified the columns to force other  tortures. Lastly, I added the bridge inside the box. I believe the  original model was just a box with no bridge. The secret to the bridge  is testing, testing, testing. I use Simplify3D as my slicer and I've set  my bridging parameters to this:  'Bridging extrusion multiplier = 80%'  and 'Bridging speed multiplier = 150%'. So I'm pulling a thinner filament  at a faster speed, like drawing a thin guide wire across a canyon. The  reduction in flow and the stretching makes for a lighter strand that  cools faster and doesn't sag under gravity as much. It gives me a nice  bridge. I've made bridges 75mm long.




Here is my bridge test model if you want it:  5-10-15-20-30-40mm_BridgeTest.STL





> How about posting the STL for the torture test.


Sure, here it is. Post your prints so we can compare and tweak more.Torture_ColumnBridgeArch_Test_RH Version_04_SHORT.stl

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## beerdart

Printed the stock Thingiverse TT with S3d stock setting high res. Results pictured. Printing Robs modified TT with Multiplier 70% and speed 200%.

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## RobH2

Nice clean print. Want filament? No strings or blobs except where the arch foot failed to attach. Good print.

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## beerdart

Robs TT the arch still failed but the box bridge is fine. The filiment is Push Plastic ABS.

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## RobH2

Excellent. We are getting about the same results. The 1mm tower is a bit crunchy like mine but hey, it's 1mm. What slicer are you using?

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## beerdart

S3d.......

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## RobH2

> S3d.......


Me too. Do you mind sharing your .fff for ABS with me. I haven't fine tuned it yet. I'll be glad to give you my PLA profiles if you want them.

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## beerdart

Just change the .stl to .fff after download as the site will not accept .fff files.

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## RobH2

> .......4ABSWIP.stl..........


This is an .stl file and when I import it, it crashes S3D. Did you send the .stl by mistake instead of the profile, '.fff' ?

Here are my PLA profiles if anyone wants to look at them.

Simplify3D_RH-PLA Profiles.zip

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## RobH2

> ............4ABSWIP.stl...............


Tricky, got it, cool, thanks. So did the site not want to let you attach an  .fff   so you changed it to   .stl?  If so, good trick.

Edit:
 yea, it's not working correctly. I doesn't bring in your settings. It opens and displays the name but all the settings are mine. Can you .zip your .fff and resend it?

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## beerdart

Correct the site would not accept .fff 


> Tricky, got it, cool, thanks. So did the site not want to let you attach an  .fff   so you changed it to   .stl?  If so, good trick.

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## beerdart

A few more test print from yesterdays snow day.. 

Cura with the same base settings as the S3D at .1 layer height

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## beerdart

Next is S3D at .2 layer height. Looks clean my conclusion is the .4 nozzle is flowing too much for the .1 layer height.

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## beerdart

Another cute feature is the ability to import a photo or any graphic and 3D slice it.

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## adamfilip

An update has been released with some interesting improvements
http://www.simplify3d.com/get-your-calipers/

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## pichuete

hi guys so after almost a month battling with some mechanical and firmware issues, now im starting to get "Decent" prints . but now im struggling to get retraction to work properly . im not getting a lot of oozing over the print but i have notice this gaps / Blobs every layer change or when the nozzle move to another spot. Im using the Stock Extruder (gregs)

i was wondering what setting for retraction is working for you and how can i minimize this .

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## jimc

you can probably increase your retraction speed. that generally want to be as snappy as you can make it. turn on coasting. start with 1mm then slowly go up from there. this stops extruding the plastic "x" distance before the end of a line. this helps reduce pressure. also turn the wipe feature on to the default 5mm.

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## printbus

jimc - I noticed that when I had wipe turned on, I was seeing artifacts on the external perimeter at the wipe distance. I wrote it off as just another spot where the nozzle stopped and turned around, and disabled wiping.  I haven't explored how to correct this. Any thoughts? Go for a longer wipe distance? Is it a sign that I might be over-extruding a bit? Or...?

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## jimc

Well wipe drags the nozzle back over the already extruded filament for a certain distance. It can just make the filament look odd. There really shouldnt be anything on the surface you can feel. If the start points are randomized you wont get that. Other than random starts you really cant get rid of that

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## printbus

For the curious, here's a photo showing the wipe artifacts I mentioned earlier.  This photo taken with the wipe distance set to 10mm, and the column of dots is at that 10mm distance from the corners. I don't remember seeing any difference between a wipe distance of 5mm vs 10mm.  Simplify3D was configured to randomize the layer shift points.  

The print is from one of my ripple tests. For the balance of the ripple prints, I just turned off wipe, to be revisited at some later date.

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## jimc

the wipe happens at the start and end of a line. usually s3d starts and ends at a corner somewhere. are your perimeters starting mid line like that? 10mm is a bit overkill. 3-5 usually does it. i dont get anything that looks like that. unless you have a really oozy nozzle and dont have retract or coast on or anything like that.

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## printbus

> the wipe happens at the start and end of a line. usually s3d starts and ends at a corner somewhere. are your perimeters starting mid line like that? 10mm is a bit overkill. 3-5 usually does it. i dont get anything that looks like that. unless you have a really oozy nozzle and dont have retract or coast on or anything like that.


OK, good to know you don't see them.  As I mentioned, I haven't went back to experiment other than increasing the wipe distance from 5mm to 10mm. The results were the same - I just don't have a photo of the print with wipe set to 5mm.  

Retraction and coast both on. Retraction speed at 15mm/sec, about the best I can do reliably.  Retraction length would have been 1.6 or 1.8mm.  Coast at end for 1.6mm.  

There are notches and holes in the test print that effectively carves most of the layers into four segments - one for each corner.  As you said, S3D starts a line in a corner. I'm printing external perimeters first.  So, the print starts in a corner and forms the outer perimeter shape of the segment. When the nozzle gets back to the starting corner, the nozzle wipes the 5 or 10mm over the starting part of the segment, stops, and moves back to the corner to start on the inner perimeter.  The artifacts are occurring at the point where the nozzle stops at the end of the wipe move to move back to the starting corner.

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## jimc

ahhh so its happening at the direction change of the wipe. that says to me your just continuing to ooze during the wipe process and its just releasing at the end of the wipe. a 10mm wipe will take longer so there is more hang time there for the plastic to ooze. if you feel you need the wipe, it really doesnt need much. just a little 2-3mm shot would be fine. i would also consider or do some tests for retraction. you may get less oozing retracting more. the amt you retract is all dependent on your hot end. my e3d is short and sharp so my retract is usually 2mm. some others i have seen in the 3-5mm range for a direct drive. some hot ends are just naturally drooly. old style hot ends without an actual heat break for instance. long hot zone. the plastic itself obviously will have an impact as well. i dont use pla at all which is more liquidy. the wipe imo works really well but its not a fix all either. just something else in your bag'o trix. as with everything 3d printing, what works for one doesnt mean its works for another. lol

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## pichuete

this probably illustrate what printbus is referring . im also having the same artifacts when wipe is enable .
Wipe at 5mm

 

so i start "playing" a little with some setting to see if i can reduce the ozzing on layer change retraction and i found some things that did improve my prints significantly.  

1. *Retraction Distance :* i increased the the Distance from 1.00mm to 1.30mm .
*2. Retracction Speed:* i bumped up the speed to 30mm/s

After this too changes i did a Cube test with outside -in Perimeter direction enabled so  the Layer change point will be at the outer perimeter this will allow  me to see any imperfections or blobs cause by retraction .

i noticed that i still had blobs during layer changes but i little more reduced.

3.* Extra Restart Distance.* i notice that with this setting the extruder will "delay" the extrusion after a retraction . first i just put a random value of -.50 mm and it was to much . after the retraction the nozzle was traveling almost 10 mm before it started to extrude again . 

Decreasing this value to -0.15 did a significantly improvement on my retraction problem .

here's the Results also disabling the Wipe  

ABS 3.00 LH @ 235C


Also i have notice some weird slicing process with S3D . for example when i tried to print the same cube but only with 1 Perimeter  2 Bottom Solid infill , And no top infill to do a thin wall calibration  the software creates a second perimeter on the inside of the cube and a solid infill around 5 mm from the top . i manage to solve this weird slicing behaviors enabling "Merge all outlines into a single solid Body" under the Advanced Tab .  

Now im playing with the* Z Movement Speed* my preliminary results are that lowering this value a bit (15mm/s) has improve my layers consistency .

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## printbus

Thanks for the insight pichuete.

Where are you changing the Z Movement Speed? The S3D "Other" tab?  The MakerFarm value for Z in DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE is 2 mm/sec, so anything S3D asks for over that will be limited to 2 mm/sec instead.  My testing led me to believe that's also about the top end for the combination we have of NEMA17s turning M5 rods to lift a fairly heavy x-carriage.

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## N5QM

FYI, if you enable the wipe and coast options, be sure to disable them when printing something in "vase" mode, it should do this automatically, but it doesn't and you end up with some large gaps in your prints.

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## pichuete

yes is was changing it on S3d trying to see if it make a difference with some Gaps/Layer Shift between layers im getting . but i didn't know the fact that the firmwares limit the movement.... 

also i was wondering what average speed works for you . i have found that the default setting are Extremely Fast compromising the print quality . i tamed down to this and still found to be fast for prints like this one i just did . 

 
ABS 0.3mm 230C 15% infill

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## jimc

printbus, what pichuete is showing in his pic for the wipe is what i normally see. its just the way it is. the nozzle drags on each layer in that spot changing the look of it. on mine there is nothing actually on the surface that you can feel. it just seems to make the plastic look different.

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## admin2000

hi  . the link does not go !!   can   you send me your prusai i3 profiles what you have make !   THX

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## admin2000

> This is an .stl file and when I import it, it crashes S3D. Did you send the .stl by mistake instead of the profile, '.fff' ?
> 
> Here are my PLA profiles if anyone wants to look at them.
> 
> Attachment 4606



HI The link is not ONLINE !!  Can  you give us your Simplify 3D   PLA  Profiles   please again !!!!

thx

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