# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  Print jumps 7mm in Y direction after initial layers

## old man emu

Have a look at this part way print:

Layer 2.6 labelled.jpg
That's a scan of the object and I didn't get it square on the scanner.


The black lines show the extrusion that was laid down as Layer 7 began to print (Z= 2.6). It was exactly 7mm down the Y-axis from where it should be. X position is correct.

This is the Gcode for the print:

Z-axis LHS plate.gcode

This code printed OK last night, except for a corner lift. The bad print happened twice today. I've just done maintenance on my printer and the belts are tight. Remember that the first 6 layers printed correctly.

Given that the room temperature where I was printing was 36C, could I have an overheat problem in the Y stepper? But the X stepper was operating under the same conditions. Both X and Y steppers were working hard as I was printing linear infill at 45 degrees.

Any ideas as to what gives?

Old Man Emu

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## DrLuigi

Had the same,

Colin told me it could be that my rods arent oiled, that the stepper motors are off as pot meters go,
Uhm and the belts that could be to tight or to losse,

I guess thats it,
Owye i also have a fan now on my makerfarm all the time when its on, a 120mm fan, it didnt do this anymore or not as frequent when i got the fan,

Also perhaps try making the mm/s go slower like 40-45mm/s.

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## Roxy

I never have a jump of 7mm...  But I do get a jump of 2 or 3mm if I'm not careful.  Do you have your bed mounted on springs?  I kind of need that because I need the extra time to react if I load some firmware that goes crazy.   The downside is if you push too hard to remove a part, you might leave the bed shifted for the next print.  And then part way through the print, it clicks over to where it wants to be and you get that layer jump.

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## printbus

It's interesting that in October you were getting jumps in the X axis and now you're getting them in the Y axis. I'll throw out the same idea I had on the X-axis problem - make sure the belt pulley is tight on motor.  It's at least easy to check.

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## old man emu

Everything's tight. I's just come out of the shop from its 10,000 mm extrusion service. 

Dr Luigi may have hit on the cause - room temperature too high. Roxy, what is the room temperature you are working at when you get your jumps? I was sitting in 36C without A/C, and 33% humidity.

 My steppers were pretty hot, but there were no unusual clicking sounds. That is to say, the steppers were not clicking, which is usual for my printer.

If my belts were loose, or the steppers were missing steps, how do you explain the exact amount of displacement of the Y axis?

Old Man Emu

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## Roxy

> Everything's tight. I's just come out of the shop from its 10,000 mm extrusion service.


You should be good for 10,000,000mm of extrusion service.  Each 1Kg roll (at 3mm) is about 100 m.   So 100 rolls is 10^7 mm.




> Dr Luigi may have hit on the cause - room temperature too high. Roxy, what is the room temperature you are working at when you get your jumps? I was sitting in 36C without A/C, and 33% humidity.


My room temperature is usually between 65 F and 75 F.   It is more the bed temperature that affects my jumps.  The bed gets hot enough to print, but it isn't really up to full temperature until I've been printing for 20 minutes.   And then, it is probably a number of things factoring in.  The bed and all the mounting hardware is getting warmer.  But also, the thing I'm printing is getting higher up off the bed which means any curling up edge presses harder on the nozzle when you go across it.  At some point, it is enough of a curl and enough leverage (because it is up above the bed) to click it back to where it wants to normally be.    If you don't have a spring mounted bed, this is just an interesting anomaly for you.

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## gmay3

OME, I have been having this exact same problem in the Y axis with mine lately, I have tried and failed many times to get the large extruder gear printed at 30% hexagonal infill and it fails as you have shown in the last 20 minutes of the print. So frustrating since its about a 2.5 hour print.

I tried putting a fan near the RAMPS stepper driver heatsinks to see if cooling them down helped. This seemed to allow the print to only fail at 10 mins before being complete. (progress?) I do not have any active cooling on any of the stepper motors themselves.

I also noticed that after the print failed while printing, I was able to pull the bed and cause the belt to slip over the teeth on the Y stepper gear and by doing this, the print error was even worse. Point being, I think the belt is heating up and becoming less rigid and allowing a little more flexibility in the belt.

I've had this issue before with the set screw on the y pulley coming loose and causing this issue but I think this time it was because my y belt was just tight and now super tight. I've tightened it as much as I could and will try this print out again to see where we are.

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## printbus

> ... I do not have any active cooling on any of the stepper motors themselves.
> 
> ...I think the belt is heating up and becoming less rigid and allowing a little more flexibility in the belt.


One thought is to check how hot the Y-motor gets during your print.  For those of us with the "hot" running motors, I found the Y-motor got the hottest of them all, likely since it is so boxed in when mounted in the frame.  Maybe that heat is causing the Y-motor to skip or is soaking through the pulley to the belt? 

For a while I printed with a small desk fan angled towards the Y-motor, and then with a 40mm fan sitting on the table in front of the motor. Now the 40mm fan is mounted to a piece of wood that is in turn bolted to the bottom side of the v-rails.  It only takes a small amount of airflow to keep the motor case at what feels like a reasonable temperature.

EDIT: More info on mounting a Y-motor cooling fan to the v-rails is in this post of my build thread - Y MOTOR COOLING FAN

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## gmay3

That's a good idea printbus! I will try moving the RAMPS fan to the Y motor to see if that helps.

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## AbuMaia

I posted a printable Y motor fan mount not too long ago, for a 40mm fan. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:498414

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## Drone

Why not just buy one of the new NEMA17's from MakerFarm and not worry about it. It's only 15.00 and that should solve any worry about heat. Get one for your extruder too. I bought my 10"kit at the end of August and the motors it came with, even with a 6 hr print, the extruder motor never gets above 38c measured with an infrared gun. Just mildly warm to the touch. Seems like a cheap but worthwhile purchase.

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## old man emu

> Why not just buy one of the new NEMA17's from MakerFarm and not worry about it. It's only 15.00 and that should solve any worry about heat.


Because $US15 = $AU17.58 and postage is $US84.95 = $AU 99.57. Total expense $AU117.15

That's why we try to fix the problem, as who's to say the bright, shiny new stepper won't have the same problem?

OME

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## gmay3

Thanks AbuMaia, I will be printing that soon!

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## gmay3

> Why not just buy one of the new NEMA17's from MakerFarm and not worry about it. It's only 15.00 and that should solve any worry about heat. Get one for your extruder too. I bought my 10"kit at the end of August and the motors it came with, even with a 6 hr print, the extruder motor never gets above 38c measured with an infrared gun. Just mildly warm to the touch. Seems like a cheap but worthwhile purchase.


That's a good point Drone. I have heard that the new motors are a new part number from our 8" i3v hot running ones. Since I am in the USA and order from makerfarm now and then, I think I might try to swap mine out at some point, especially if I find that an overheating Y motor caused the problem.

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## TopJimmyCooks

The new makerfarm supplied nema 17's run cool.  I expect they are made a lot closer to AUS than they are to the US.  just get the model number , order from hong kong, etc. and it's a short boat ride.  I can post a pic of the label if needed but i think Clough42 or someone had a post recently about the spec's of the new motors.  As Drone suggested, this is a way better solution rather than  putting a fan on every stepper.   I can understand if you're very isolated the shipping can be crazy though.

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## printbus

When the new motors started being used by MakerFarm, little data was found for them. The manufacturer doesn't do a good job publishing data for every one of their motors. 

Any of a number of NEMA17 stepper motors would work fine.  I replaced just the extruder motor with a Kysan 1124090 I got from eBay.  Kysan appears to be one of the premier brands for stepper motors, a number of people use the 1124090 on repraps, and it met the specs called out in the reprap wiki.  When I want to invest more in my April 2014 era printer, I'll order more motors and swap out the rest. 

Here, the OP is in troubleshooting mode.  Colin continued to empahsize that the motors running hot were not an issue, but some of us haven't been convinced.  Most of us have gobs of fans laying around from computers and what not.  Experimenting with more airflow on a motor is something that can often be implemented in a few minutes.  If testing concludes that the motor temperature is related to the problem, then the decision can be made on formal implementation of the cooling fan as a permanent bandaid or motor replacement.

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## old man emu

I really think that my problem is trying to print somewhere that the room temperature is 100F. Nothing cools down under those conditions, even with an industrial sized fan blowing across it.

During my wanderings I can across this: http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code#M906:_Set_motor_currents

*M906: Set motor currents*Example: M906 X300 Y500 Z200 E350
Sets the currents to send to the stepper motors for each axis. The values are in milliamps.

Has anyone used this during set up and calibration?

Old Man Emu

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## gmay3

> I replaced just the extruder motor with a Kysan 1124090 I got from eBay.  Kysan appears to be one of the premier brands for stepper motors, a number of people use the 1124090 on repraps, and it met the specs called out in the reprap wiki.


Doing a quick ebay search, do the Kysan steppers you bought from ebay have the Kysan branded sticker on them? There seems to be two, one without this sticker and one with.

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## printbus

> ...*M906: Set motor currents*
> 
> Example: M906 X300 Y500 Z200 E350
> Sets the currents to send to the stepper motors for each axis. The values are in milliamps.
> 
> Has anyone used this during set up and calibration?


You'd have to check your source code to see if M906 is supported.  My bet is that it's not. M906 could be what is used with the Rambo electronics board, where some form of digital adjustment is involved instead of the microscopic trimpots we're familiar with on the Pololu-type driver boards used on RAMPs.

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## Roxy

There isn't an M906 command in Marlin.  But there are these two commands:


    case 907: // M907 Set digital trimpot motor current using axis codes.

    case 908: // M908 Control digital trimpot directly.

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## printbus

> Doing a quick ebay search, do the Kysan steppers you bought from ebay have the Kysan branded sticker on them? There seems to be two, one without this sticker and one with.


I bought one from the 3dmakerworld seller.  Their picture doesn't show a Kysan sticker, but the motor came with one.  Although I do have to chuckle - it looked like a label anyone could have printed and stuck on the motor. 

These motors all tend to look the same, but one obvious thing about this one I found impressive is the wire gauge. It's marked #22, compared to the #26 wires on the OEM motors from MakerFarm.  Heftier wire should mean less resistance, leading to more power being applied directly to the motor.  I'm not sure that difference in the motor specs alone would have justified the increase in wire size for the Kysan.

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## old man emu

> There isn't an M906 command in Marlin.  But there are these two commands:
> 
> 
>     case 907: // M907 Set digital trimpot motor current using axis codes.
> 
>     case 908: // M908 Control digital trimpot directly.


C'mon! Giving an answer like that is like starting the Dance of the Seven Veils and stopping at Veil #1.

Please to explain how honourable code work.

OME

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## Roxy

> C'mon! Giving an answer like that is like starting the Dance of the Seven Veils and stopping at Veil #1.
> 
> Please to explain how honourable code work.
> 
> OME


Be careful what you ask for!  You might get it....       I pulled Marlin_main.cpp into Vi (my favorite editor) and started searching.   All of the G and M commands are implemented via switch statements with various case: lables.    I searched for 906:    It wasn't in there.   But pretty much (there are exceptions) the case values are in ascending order.  I got up into the 900's and this what is there:



```
    case 907: // M907 Set digital trimpot motor current using axis codes.
    {
      #if defined(DIGIPOTSS_PIN) && DIGIPOTSS_PIN > -1
        for(int i=0;i<NUM_AXIS;i++) if(code_seen(axis_codes[i])) digipot_current(i,code_value());
        if(code_seen('B')) digipot_current(4,code_value());
        if(code_seen('S')) for(int i=0;i<=4;i++) digipot_current(i,code_value());
      #endif
      #ifdef MOTOR_CURRENT_PWM_XY_PIN
        if(code_seen('X')) digipot_current(0, code_value());
      #endif
      #ifdef MOTOR_CURRENT_PWM_Z_PIN
        if(code_seen('Z')) digipot_current(1, code_value());
      #endif
      #ifdef MOTOR_CURRENT_PWM_E_PIN
        if(code_seen('E')) digipot_current(2, code_value());
      #endif
      #ifdef DIGIPOT_I2C
        // this one uses actual amps in floating point
        for(int i=0;i<NUM_AXIS;i++) if(code_seen(axis_codes[i])) digipot_i2c_set_current(i, code_value());
        // for each additional extruder (named B,C,D,E..., channels 4,5,6,7...)
        for(int i=NUM_AXIS;i<DIGIPOT_I2C_NUM_CHANNELS;i++) if(code_seen('B'+i-NUM_AXIS)) digipot_i2c_set_current(i, code_value());
      #endif
    }
    break;
    case 908: // M908 Control digital trimpot directly.
    {
      #if defined(DIGIPOTSS_PIN) && DIGIPOTSS_PIN > -1
        uint8_t channel,current;
        if(code_seen('P')) channel=code_value();
        if(code_seen('S')) current=code_value();
        digitalPotWrite(channel, current);
      #endif
    }
    break;
```

There is also some stuff to control the micro-stepping of the stepper motors:


```
    case 350: // M350 Set microstepping mode. Warning: Steps per unit remains unchanged. S code sets stepping mode for all drivers.
    {
      #if defined(X_MS1_PIN) && X_MS1_PIN > -1
        if(code_seen('S')) for(int i=0;i<=4;i++) microstep_mode(i,code_value());
        for(int i=0;i<NUM_AXIS;i++) if(code_seen(axis_codes[i])) microstep_mode(i,(uint8_t)code_value());
        if(code_seen('B')) microstep_mode(4,code_value());
        microstep_readings();
      #endif
    }
    break;
    case 351: // M351 Toggle MS1 MS2 pins directly, S# determines MS1 or MS2, X# sets the pin high/low.
    {
      #if defined(X_MS1_PIN) && X_MS1_PIN > -1
      if(code_seen('S')) switch((int)code_value())
      {
        case 1:
          for(int i=0;i<NUM_AXIS;i++) if(code_seen(axis_codes[i])) microstep_ms(i,code_value(),-1);
          if(code_seen('B')) microstep_ms(4,code_value(),-1);
          break;
        case 2:
          for(int i=0;i<NUM_AXIS;i++) if(code_seen(axis_codes[i])) microstep_ms(i,-1,code_value());
          if(code_seen('B')) microstep_ms(4,-1,code_value());
          break;
      }
      microstep_readings();
      #endif
```

There!  We are to the Veil #2.

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## old man emu

Geez! I'm sorry I started this.
Angry emu.jpg  (An angry emu)

It shows that to really fiddle about with these Gcodes, you have to be fluent in the programming language. 

Got to admit, this old emu can't learn too many new tricks. Forget Veil #2. Just chuck a chaff bag over me and be done with it.


OME

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## gmay3

> I bought one from the 3dmakerworld seller.  Their picture doesn't show a Kysan sticker, but the motor came with one.  Although I do have to chuckle - it looked like a label anyone could have printed and stuck on the motor.


Great! Thanks printbus, it looks like I'm going to be ordering a few of these. I was finally able to get the print I was having trouble with to complete successfully! 

The solution was to set up a fan similar to how AbuMaia suggested. It kept the the motor much cooler in comparison to the extruder. Another thing I think helped was tightening the y belt down as tight as I could. I suspect the heating of the motor was the true culprit of this issue though!

Thank you all! OME I hope these suggestions are helpful for you!

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## Drone

Here is the ID tag for the MakerFarm Nema17 motor I got with my kit that stays very cool.



So if you want one from MakerFarm, and shipping is not an issue, this one is inexpensive from a reliable source.

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## AbuMaia

I'm currently printing out the 5th iteration of a redone Y-motor fan mount. I wanted to be able to mount the Y endstop switch on it too, save a T nut. Been tweaking and printing and mounting and tweaking all day.

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## old man emu

I think you blokes have missed something. You are concentrating on the temperature of the Y axis stepper. You forget that at the same time as the Y axis stepper was working flat out, the X axis one was working just as hard, and without error. 

The other thing is, if the belt or pulley was loose, then subsequent layers would not be printed accurately on top of the preceding oout of position one.

Old Man Emu

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## AbuMaia

The X stepper was also out in open air on three sides, while the Y stepper was in a little box.

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## printbus

My guess is that the Y motor also has more work to do.  Anyone know how the weight of the Y bed, heater, glass, and rolling hardware compares to the X-carriage and extruder parts? Plus, as the print grows, the weight that the Y-motor needs to move around keeps going up...

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## Drone

> My guess is that the Y motor also has more work to do.  Anyone know how the weight of the Y bed, heater, glass, and rolling hardware compares to the X-carriage and extruder parts? Plus, as the print grows, the weight that the Y-motor needs to move around keeps going up...


All very good points Printbus. Keeping that in mind it might make sense to look at the part being printed and the orientation it is being printed in. If the part is much narrower in x than y, for the same reason it might make sense to reorient the print to put the longer direction on the x axis.

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## printbus

> All very good points Printbus. Keeping that in mind it might make sense to look at the part being printed and the orientation it is being printed in. If the part is much narrower in x than y, for the same reason it might make sense to reorient the print to put the longer direction on the x axis.


I was going to argue that it wouldn't make any difference, but I see your point.  Putting the bulk of the print in the X axis would minimize how much movement is required in the Y direction.  Interesting thought.  

OME - We're just offering you ideas on what could be causing your Y axis issue. You certainly have the right to discard any of the suggestions that are provided.

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## Roxy

> My guess is that the Y motor also has more work to do.  Anyone know how the weight of the Y bed, heater, glass, and rolling hardware compares to the X-carriage and extruder parts? Plus, as the print grows, the weight that the Y-motor needs to move around keeps going up...


Agreed...   There are a couple of corner cases.  Like what if the Slicer was pretty much just generating GCode that moved the X Axis.   But in general the X & Y movement are going to be similar. The difference is the Y motor is moving much more weight.   That is going to factor directly into how much energy is being pumped into the Y motor.

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## old man emu

> OME - We're just offering you ideas on what could be causing your Y axis issue. You certainly have the right to discard any of the suggestions that are provided.


No problem with that. This is a discussion, after all. We hope to reach a conclusion that explains the situation.

As to the Mass that the steppers are moving, if you discount the parts common to both X & Y axis units, such as the linear bearings, idler bearings and components, you have to compare the weights of items being moved.

As an approximation, I'd say that the print board and heater on the Y axis are the same as the extruder gear assembly including the hobbed bolt on the X axis. The extra weights are the extruder itself, its cooling fan and the biggy, the extruder stepper motor. A NEMA 17 weighs approximately 11 oz (~300 gm). So, I'd say that the X-axis stepper has to do more Work ( Mass x  Acceleration x Distance) than the Y axis.

Drone might have hit on a factor. Originally I had the object sliced so that its length in the X axis direction was greater than in the Y axis direction. I had an unrelated issue with that print (uneven bed), so I re-sliced so that the object was longer in the Y direction than the X direction. That meant that the Y axis stepper had more work to do, and that's when the jump happened.

What I am not satisfied with is that after the jump, the print continued with all subsequent Y positions offset exactly 7 mm from the pre-jump Y positions. The extrusions after the jump were as neat as those before it.

I'm going to run another print tonight to see if room temperature was a factor. It's cooler tonight than on the afternoon that I encountered the problem.

Old Man Emu

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## old man emu

*UPDATE:*

I did the prints last night - it's nearly 8:30 am as I write this, you sleepy heads - and the jump did not happen. The ambient room temperature was 21C. 

I think I might put my money on "Overheated Y Stepper" to win the Reason Stakes and bring a fan when the temperature out in the field is over 30C.

OME

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## Drone

Glad to hear you got it figured out EMU! Now you need to implement a long term solution. A 9c differential in ambient temp must mean you are running on the ragged edge between a successful and unsuccessful print even at 21c ambient. So get a cooling solution, new motor, or another method to make sure you don't waste time on unsuccessful prints due to overheating issues. Long prints that fail partway into a print suck and definitely require a remedy to eliminate.

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## gmay3

> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I did the prints last night - it's nearly 8:30 am as I write this, you sleepy heads - and the jump did not happen. The ambient room temperature was 21C. 
> 
> I think I might put my money on "Overheated Y Stepper" to win the Reason Stakes and bring a fan when the temperature out in the field is over 30C.
> 
> OME


Great news OME! I also put my money on "Overheated Y Stepper", as this was the direct cause of my problems as well. Then I put my money on 3 new stepper motors that printbus suggested  :Big Grin: . Here's the Amazon link below:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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## gmay3

Just wanted to give an update. I have received the 3 new Kysan motors and replaced the y, x, and extruder motors. No modification to the stepper driver pots was needed (the 0.39V measurement thing). I did need to solder on an extension to the wires for the x motor, but Colin included them with our printer kits which was fantastic!

Over all they seem much higher in quality compared to the motors shipped with the 8" i3v. There is less resistance when I turn the shaft on the kysan motors compared to the old ones when both motors are unplugged. Most importantly, they were even cooler to the touch than the old z motors were at the end of the print. They are quieter and emit some musical tones instead of of a low rumble/sawing through wood sound when printing. 

Very satisfied with these new guys! A big thanks to ya printbus!

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## printbus

I concur on the quality assessment, but I didn't want to push things more than I already had earlier.  Just a reminder that the Kysans are wired with 22 gauge wire rather than 26 - I view that as significant in itself.  Good to hear yours are also quieter, since I thought my extruder was running quieter now as well.  All these reasons could be why Kysans are frequently recommended.  

Guess I now want to bump more of these higher on the wish list for motors other than the extruder.

FOLLOWUP POST: To those that have the i3v-10 and i3v-12, remember that gmay3 and I are discussing replacements for an earlier motor Colin was using in the i3v-8 kits.

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## AbuMaia

And possibly in the i3 8 kits as well. I'm nearly convinced to upgrade my motors too.

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## gmay3

> And possibly in the i3 8 kits as well. I'm nearly convinced to upgrade my motors too.


Yeah for the price it's definitely worth doing the 3 motor replacement (x, y, and extruder) if you have hot running steppers included in the 8" i3v. The two z motors aren't a necessity, though I may do it in the future if I get the itch to upgrade something!

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## printbus

> Yeah for the price it's definitely worth doing the 3 motor replacement (x, y, and extruder) if you have hot running steppers included in the 8" i3v. The two z motors aren't a necessity, though I may do it in the future if I get the itch to upgrade something!


That's just an example of the value of different opinions.  I'm actually considering two for the Z-motors first since that's where I'm struggling.  It irritates me to see the print stop and wait for the layer change to complete, and I can't help but wonder if I'm better off optimizing Z feed rate, acceleration, and jerk on what might be "better" motors.  The pause at the layer change is right now my biggest issue with print quality.  Cura doesn't (that I know of) have the Slic3r-like option to do a retraction for a layer change, and Cura will also typically do all the layer changes at the same spot on each layer. So, most of my prints come out a pretty ugly corner where the nozzle sat at the end of each layer and oozed while the Z motors (slowly) do their thing.  And I've had no good luck with the spiralize option in Cura.    

 I know I've been a strong proponent of RH and Cura, but I'm starting to think I've outgrown the Cura part.  Higher pitch 8mm ACME rods are likely destined for use as my threaded rods at some point, but they're a bit pricey to just go do it, and could create some of their own issues related to feed rate etc.  I try to keep 3D printing on as low of a budget line as I can, and all of my 3D printing expenses (Pi, motors, rods, etc.) are on hold until I decide if I'm going to bite on Simplify3D.

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## gmay3

That's certainly interesting, I didn't know Cura had that issue. I can't say I've noticed that issue with slic3r. I have it set to start each layer in a random point. Though, I might not be understanding the struggle you are describing or could also be experiencing it without realizing it.

Are there any dealbreakers keeping you from using slic3r? I hadn't heard of simplify3d, what features does it have that you're interested in?

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## printbus

> That's certainly interesting, I didn't know Cura had that issue. I can't say I've noticed that issue with slic3r. I have it set to start each layer in a random point. Though, I might not be understanding the struggle you are describing or could also be experiencing it without realizing it.
> 
> Are there any dealbreakers keeping you from using slic3r? I hadn't heard of simplify3d, what features does it have that you're interested in?


First, apologies to OME for continuing a sidebar. But OME seems to have gotten what he wanted out of the thread and he hasn't closed it, so it's all fair game. Right?

Second, sorry if my attitude is a bit more vocal than usual. Thanks to mother nature and a mother-of-all-hailstorms earlier this fall, we've had to bring in multiple contractors to deal with repairs. Every dang one of them is turning out to be a nightmare.  Spent the entire day battling two of them.  OMG.  Yeah, I post on the forums a lot. What no one realizes is that my time here is often me stepping away from unpleasant realities for a few minutes.  

Anyway...  I had started to address my attitude towards Slic3r in the earlier post, but deleted it, knowing there were likely some already rolling their eyes about another rambling post from printbus. If you've selected the randomize layer start option in Slic3r,  you likely wouldn't have the issue I have with Cura and some of my prints. Even better if you also select the retract on layer shift.  I wish.  

Simplify3D is a professionally developed all-in-one software suite addressing the slicer and host software. It's $140 USD, without any option for an evaluation, and without any substantial up-front insight into it unless you dig for it.  Spending WAY too much reading forums, my estimation is that about 19 out of 20 people that have sprung for it will never, ever give it up.  And that those 19 question the sanity of the odd-ball. If someone wants to provide first-hand insight, I'm ready for it.  

I know a lot of people are OK with Slic3r.  Unfortunately, I grew too frustrated with the apparent lack of vision and quality control in working with multiple versions.  Every version seemed to fix one thing, but you'd have to readjust to accommodate new quirks in a handful of other things. In a nutshell, I grew weary of relearning how to optimize things each version.  I may have just picked a bad combination of versions to work with, IDK.  In reading Slic3r release notes, I became concerned for seeing things that were entirely revamped or ported to a new programming language.  Those are signs of product stability?  

For those happy with Slic3r, good for you. I'm not here to argue.  I just want to keep looking elsewhere for a while yet before I give it another shot.  Besides, I'm one of those nitpicky people who will likely never be happy with whatever they have.  Well, at least that's what certain contractors keep trying to tell me. 

Off to another beer...

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## printbus

The picture shows the effect of Cura stopping in the same corner every layer to wait for the layer change.  This is new filament I'm experimenting with, and I know the sidewall isn't perfect either because of some E feed rate testing I was doing at the time. This filament seems to be really bad at the layer change point, and so far I haven't found a magic combination that prevents it.  One thing that aggravates this is that the pause reheats the layer(s) below the nozzle as it sits. Since the pause occurs in a corner of the print (the Make: resonance in XY benchmark), airflow from my print cooling blower doesn't have a chance to cool the corner back down before the nozzle moves on with the airflow.  This test effectively had no minimum layer time, so the nozzle is back to the same corner likety-split.  So, I know. Settings, settings, settings. I'm just showing what I was talking about as far as the corner quality driven by having to wait for the M5 Z-rods to accomplish the 0.2mm layer shift at MakerFarm default settings for Z feed rate, acceleration and jerk.

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## gmay3

First off, sorry to hear about the home repair woes. Hope it all gets resolved soon!

Understood, slic3r is very bare bones in the visual department and definitely isn't right for everyone. So far I have had good results with slic3r version 1.0.0RC and haven't felt any version upgrades were necessary. 

If you ever want my pretty basic slic3r settings for this version just to try out and build on, don't hesitate to ask!

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## printbus

I don't dare go into details on the contractor woes.  Currently looking at around two more weeks based on the backwards steps that occurred yesterday.  

I do plan to skim through Slic3r release notes to see what they've been up to. I'd likely use whatever Slic3r version is integrated with Repetier-Host, and I'm somewhat optimistic that may help isolate me from premature releases that aren't ready for prime time. Then I'll do a slice in both Cura and Slic3r and compare the number of travel moves required.  I used to see Slic3r results have 2-3 times the moves of Cura, and was one of the big reasons I gave up on it.

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## old man emu

_First, apologies to OME for continuing a sidebar. But OME seems to have gotten what he wanted out of the thread and he hasn't closed it, so it's all fair game. Right? 

_No sweat, mate.  I opened the gate and let the sheep run in the Long Paddock. I didn't know I had to muster them and bring 'em back like that Bow Peep woman down the lane.

I can't say for certain that the question has been answered, so let's leave the gate open. Maybe a few strays I'm missing will wander back in.

If your sidebar will lead to a discussion of slic3r -v- cura, then it is probably best, for future searches, to create another thread. My thread might be dead in the water, but the slic3r -v- cura discussion might still have wind in its sails.

And with that mixture of metaphors, I'll take my leave.

OME

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