# 3D Printing > General 3D Printing Discussion >  3D printers Comparation (parameters)

## FerGazz

Hello fellows! That's my first post in that forum, I'm so excited! 

I'm a 3d entusiast, looking foward to open an startup in that area, I'm located in Brazil but also can import products from all around the world. I'm also a CAD user (3d Max) since 2006 and 2D designer since 2000. I've been in New York 3D Printing Conference in May 2013 and São Paulo 3D Conference in April 2014, searching about the industry since 2006 but I'm not a pratical user yet.

I'm starting to do a comparation of 3d printings to my mkt plan... to decide what I will buy for my bussines. I'm thinking to buy a FDM (around 100 microns resolution or less) and a SLA (less than 25 microns), boths with the higher resolution possible and as close as possible to "domestic" costs (hehehe). I'm thinking to offer 3d printing services modeling, printing and scanning with the biggest range possible (hehehe). Because of that I'm making an excel table to compare some machines. Would like some help to define what are the key informations for decision making... need some help if I'm forgoting some specification:

FDM Printers / parameters

Factory / Model / Resolution / Open Source? / Printable area / Speed / Heating Range / dual extrusion? / Filament: Size and materials / 3d printer value (dollar) / Support
Am I forgot some important parameter? 

FDM brands/models checked: Makerbot, Solidoodle, Ultimaker, 3d system printers, stratasys printers, Up!... some indication of these competing brands?

SLA Printers / parameters
Factory / Model / Resolution / Open Source? / Printable area / Speed / Laser specifications / Resin price / Resin tank durability / SLA 3d printer value (dollar) / Support
Am I forgot some important parameter?

SLA brands/models checked: Spark Autodesk, Form Labs, B9 Creator, Asiga Freeform Pico... some indication of these competing brands (similars)?


Cheers for all community!

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## richardphat

If you're planning to make a startup company, I would strongly not advise to. Try to get hired and see how it performs. It's a real risk and you may lost your time and money .
Or try to hook up with some universities for research. You'll see not everyone will offer a 30 000$ contract, sometime they will ask for 10-20$ and you will spend 4-5 hours printing their items.

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## FerGazz

Hi Richard, thanks for your advice! The marketing plan that I'm desenvolving is just to minimalize the risks and see if it's possible. I have good skills with marketing, advertising and good relationship with the nacional press here. I'm not alone in that, have a business partner in industrial design area, and I have couses certificated by Autodesk in 3D modeling... but as well, I don't have to much skills with the printers and I will intensify my skills on it.

I reeded Anderson's book about "New Industrial Revolution" in the end of 2012 and I got excited with the low prices and good resolution that he said. When I've been in NY for the Conference (2013) I got disapointed with the resolution of Makerbot products... (with those FDM printers I think that 10-30$ will be the price to do "selfies" or something like that) because of that I am looking for an alternative with SLA printers. I saw some good end products done by Form Labs, after some pos-production work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdVp...ature=youtu.be . Do they think that 100-200 dolares is too much to sell products with that tecnology and pos-production? The problem with Form Labs here is that the resin cames with high cost, something like 350 dolares each bottle... and support doesn't exist yet. Because of that I looking for an open-source SLA printer, to get the resin with lower prices... Autodesk Spark looks great but it's not on the market yet, I don't have references of it. 

Would like some tips of SLA printers, open-source, with good printable area and low-cost, anyone can help?

Cheers!

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## Feign

MakerJuice sells its G+ resin for $55 per liter.  I think there are other discount resin suppliers, but I've personally used Makerjuice and am quite satisfied with it.  The Form 1 is pretty top-of-the-line, but there is also the Pegasus Touch, and soon (December) there will also be the Titan1 which are both comparable to the Form 1 for a little bit less cost.  For a lower-end printer there's the LumiFold (which should be up for sale soon, they also sell some very cheap resin) and on Indiegogo there is the LumiPocket.  Also brand new on Kickstarter is the iBox Nano which is admittedly probalby not what you're looking for, but it sure is cheap.  For the cheapest, open-sourced, DIY solution ($99 for a kit where you still have to supply some of the simple parts), there's the Peachy Printer, which is up for pre-ordering and should ship around July.

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## FerGazz

thank you Feign, value contribution!

What about those resin tanks guys, how often it's necessary to change them? I heard that Form Labs resin tank need to be changed after 3 liters of resin... proceed?

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## Feign

Every bottom-projection printer (Form 1, Titan 1, Pegasus Touch and iBox Nano) needs the resin tank changed regularly, the constant peeling of the tank from the part will erode the tank over time, making it cloudy.  Top-projection printers (LumiFold, LumiPocket, Peachy) don't have the same interaction between the resin and the tank.  You can keep the same tank on a top-projection printer for as long as you can stand to look at it, depending on the conditions and materials, the sides of the tank might get a slight resin film on them that looks kinda grungy but it won't affect printing at all.  Also, top-down printers can use a standard PVC bucket for the resin tank if you want to, so if you do want to replace it, it's not expensive.

That said, bottom-projection printers are generally higher resolution than top-projection ones, tend to be smaller and much more resistant to vibration around them, making them much better suited to an office environment.

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## richardphat

And to add that you might even screw your vat before even printing one. It needs a single scratch and that spot for printing isn't working well. Pexiglass is easily scratched, might want to make glass based vat to avoid issue.

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## Feign

I doubt any of the bottom-projection printers just use plexiglass.  The main requirement of the vat is that it be as anti-stick as possible.
If you can make an inherently non-stick glass, then you'd make a good living making SLA resin trays.

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## richardphat

Since we're talking about it, I found couple of glass from scanner. My department keeps throwing useable stuff :S
I'll tell you the results with typical scanner glass results.

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## awerby

If you're doing resin printing through a transparent vat, glass or acrylic by itself won't work. You need to add a layer of clear silicone rubber, so the cured resin won't stick to it. Glass is a better substrate than acrylic, since it sticks better to the rubber, and is more resistant to scratching and won't be attacked by the alcohol used for cleaning residual resin out of the vats. But it's not as easy to work with, which is why you still see so many acrylic vats.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

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## LambdaFF

Have you tried glass with teflon spray ? We use that for some applications (not resin or 3D printing), works great.

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## FerGazz

That`s great guys, thanks a lot for everything! Resin tanks aren`t my problem anymore, I will follow those orientations. hehehe

I also ordered an Ultimaker 2 to start on hardware 3d world, I`m so excited with that... 0.02 for max resolution turn me to that way. Also bought some ColorFabb filaments (PLA Pale Gold, XT Orange, Bronzefill and Taulman Nylon Bridge).

FDM is ok, now the seach for SLA printers continue.

I will wait for reviews of the new SLA printers that will hit the market later this year and early next year... Titan 1 looks great, tryed to buy last week but the deliveries are scheduled for March!
Pegasus looks great to and Autodesk Spark I`m not expecting to much, I think that Autodesk will focus just in a software environment (Spark) but also wanna see her technical features. 
The problem of Form Labs to me is that it isn`t open-source, resin is too much expensive here, around 350-400 dolares. 

Should I take a look in another SLA open-source with a good resolution (less than 20 microns) and printable area? LumiPocket, iBoxNano and PeachyPrinter looks great but it`s also to compact for my needs.

Cheers!

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## FerGazz

That's a good link about Resin Tank (VAT) problems / solutions:
http://blog.madesolid.com/2014/03/3-things-wrong-vat/

Cheers!

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