# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > MakerBot Forum >  Any Z18 owners out there

## JeffKling

Does anyone have a Z18?  Are you getting good prints out of it?

I want to start by saying I HATE this printer.  I cannot get 2 consecutive good prints from it.  

Problems...
Unpacking:  When I received it the build/shipping quality was not good.  The bridge connector between the 2 control boards was dislodged.  I had to dig through the chassis to find it and reattach.  Also, the switch that registers the door closed was damaged.  I had to remove the entire front to replace the metal lever on the switch.Homing:  Out of the box I could not get it to home correctly.  After several emails to support the solution was remove the bellows.  It was preventing the extrude head from hitting the lug off the back.  This solved the homing problem (mostly) but created the next.Heated build chamber:  It seems like a really great evolution of the technology, but it does not work.  First, I had to remove the bellows just to get it to work.  Now even if I cover up all the vents, I cannot get it to 80C.Filament storage:  The swing out tray is cosmetically nice, but in reality it is CRAP.  I get jams all the time.  I had to reseat the bearing just to keep it from jamming when I open it.Camera:  I know it is meaningless, but it does not work.  Even if it did, the angle will not show you the printing, it will only show the final product.Changing settings:  To change any setting yo have to edit the file in a text editor.  I cannot believe they cannot get a GUI do do this.
The good part:
It is not mine.  It was bought for the school I support.  If I spent the money on this I would be even more pissed...

If anyone is having a good experience with this printer please let me know.  I would love to pick your brain about getting a good print out it.

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## DragonXtreme

I own a Z18 and initially between software and extruders I had a lot of issues to start. Since 3.4 and the 12.1 version extruders I have had very little problems getting out good prints. Most of my problems now are how I set my paramaters for infill and speed for the build size.

First comment I would have is for you to get hold of the support side and get a replacement bellow system on it's way, removing it may be a temporary solution but not a permanent.

Why would you want to get the build chamber to 80C, recommended is 35C, you only want the chamber to be hot, around 95-100F not a sauna at 176F, you couldn't even touch the acrylic if it got that hot, and there probably is no ability to reach that temperature without the unit being on fire anyway.

The camera only works on large builds over 10", it comes in handy on a 60-90 hour print when you want to check the status while you are away. The camera only works on WiFi or Cat 5 connection, if you are connected via USB you will not see the camera.

Your filament jamming is partly because of how the rolls are stored as well as shipped, loose rolls will overlap the strands causing it to bind when unrolling. Storing partial rolls loose without retensioning the filament and securing it into the holes on the outer plate will allow the coil to loosen and again allow for overlapping strands causing binds.

The current UI is meant for the novice user, hence the limited options. Manually editing via a text editor is for the advanced user. I am accustomed to this as I also run several CNC machines and even with my high end milling programs I am constantly editing g code manually through a text editor. Since MB went to a proprietary control program to run its machines the only current way to modify the open parameters of your Z18 and all 5 Gen is via the text editor.

You have done a lot of work on this yourself but since it was bought by the school I would probably have suggested they requested a return of the Z18 for replacement if it came in that poor of condition. Depending on how the school directed you to service the unit "ie I don't care what it takes, get it running for the class" and your direction from support, you may have eliminated the ability to return the unit for replacement based on what you have said you have done to it. But that would be a discussion with the schools purchasing department and MB themselves.

My Z18 arrived firmly packed, no loose parts and everything looked pristine. The Drop tag was still charged as well as the "Do Not Stack" cone was still attached to the top. Again my issues were with the software and the extruders.

For suggestions on what you are trying to print post what it is either by picture of the model or a link if it is off Thingiverse or some other site and I will try to print it and give you the parameters that work for me. A good model design is just as important as the printer itself.

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## JeffKling

Dragon,

That may have honestly been the best reply I have EVER received in a forum.  Thank you VERY much...

I wanted to get that out there.  I do not have time to reply point by point right now, but as soon as I have a few minutes I would appreciated some discussion about getting these subjects.

Again.  Thank you very much.

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## JeffKling

I did contact support and looks like the parts will be on the way.

As for the temp.  I was trying to print ABS which apparently it will not do.  Do you run your PLA at 35C chamber temp?  I will give that a try.  I am having an issue with the print separating from the raft.  It only happens on the right side of the build platform.  Maybe the chamber temp will help.

As for the filament...  I made a spool holder that mounts to the side.  I still have tension issues, but is seems to be better.

Do you mind sharing some of the modified settings you have started using?  I made the raft a little wider, that is about all, other than playing with temp settings a bit.

I will try to get you a few links over the next couple of days...

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## wackyvorlon

I  just wanted to point out that the high end Stratasys FDM machines heat the entire build chamber to 230C. The Fortus 400 is built like an oven inside.

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## jimc

no they dont. build chambers on industrial fdm machines are 70-90c. 230 would melt your abs model into a blob

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## wackyvorlon

Then the display on the front panel has been lying to me...

I can double check next time I'm in the lab, but I'm pretty sure it's 230.

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## DragonXtreme

Jeff,

When I get back into the office tomorrow I will give you some settings I use. Yes I use the PLA from Makerbot as it is the only approved to run through the smart extruders.

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## DragonXtreme

Jeff,

Here is the baseline I am using.

Create a new profile using Makerbot PLA for Z18 Standard.

Setting I change in this created profile.

Layer Height - I will modify this from 0.15 to 0.25 depending on the model
DoDynamicSpeed - true (this will slow the speed at tight corners leaving less pull away)
ExtruderTemp - default is 215, you can vary this to what works good for you but in my shop and the room temp it works best for most of the PLA I have at around 220)
ChamberTemp - 35C
Number of Shells - 4
Infill Density - 0.03 - 0.05 (if your printing small objects you may want to run 0.10 - 0.15)
Extrusion Profile - Change the speeds here, these are working constantly for me, doesn't mean you can't adjust to fit your needs.
Bridge Feedrate - 40
FirstLayer - 30
FirstLayerRaft - 50
Infill - 40
Insets - 40
Outlines - 20
RaftBase - 10

Drop on over to Bold Machines to see what they are doing with the Z18's. They have 10 Z18's running 24/7. They run most things over there at 0.30 using the default Fast Settings from the control panel due to the size parts they are printing. http://www.boldmachines.com/

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## JeffKling

Thanks again Dragon.  I am going to use you setting as a baseline to see what happens.  

That site is getting some INCREDIBLE prints.  If I can get them half that good I will be happy.

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## JeffKling

One issue I am having (before I used your settings) is separating the part from the raft.  What setting affects the material between the raft and the part?

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## DragonXtreme

In one of the videos my rep sent me they talked about changing "raft base layer to 2.0" and "raft surface layers to 5.0" to make it easier and have a better bottom surface. I have not tried it yet as for the most part it hasn't been to bad removing the raft from my prints. Those setting will cost more in time and materials but if it cures your ills it may be worth it.

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## Superdave

I sometimes have the same issue with my Z18.  some areas of the raft pull right off and others need to be pried apart and then trimmed or sanded down.  I plan to try the items DragonXtreme mentioned above.

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## JeffKling

OK.  Here is my largest print ever.

Couple of issues...

Raft problem:  Same as before, but I have not tried the new setting yet.
Raft Warp:  The upper right hand corner cam up a couple mm.  While not catastrophic, not yet perfect.
Filament not sticking:  The right side X section looks like the filament did not stick and was dragged out into the open space.  Is this a temperature issue?  Too hot or cold?

Other than those, a pretty good 28 hr print.

2014-12-31 14.44.17.jpg2014-12-31 14.37.38.jpg

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## JeffKling

> OK.  Here is my largest print ever.
> 
> Couple of issues...
> 
> Raft problem:  Same as before, but I have not tried the new setting yet.
> Raft Warp:  The upper right hand corner cam up a couple mm.  While not catastrophic, not yet perfect.
> Filament not sticking:  The right side X section looks like the filament did not stick and was dragged out into the open space.  Is this a temperature issue?  Too hot or cold?
> 
> Other than those, a pretty good 28 hr print.
> ...


AHH  I think I need supports turned on for the X.  There is a pocket underneath.

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## DragonXtreme

Yeah it looks like you need to support the square X, the rectangle X's look decent but they also look like they are also full depth. i would hold off on the temp change until you correct the support issue. You might need to look at the level of the plate and run the leveling routine as it might be off a hair not allowing a good stick on the raft but you might also benefit from the thicker raft as well.

Also forgot to mention in my earlier post, take a look at this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:492067 . Outside of the occasional twisted filament jam from the spool I never get a filament jam at the head since I started using it.

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## Superdave

I've had really good success using hairspray on the removable build plate to eliminate the lift problem.  Did you have the heat on in the chamber?

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## JeffKling

I do have the heat on.  I thought of using a sheet of glass with hairspray and setting the z offset...  Anyone tried that yet?

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## DragonXtreme

I haven't tried glass or any other variations since I have not had an issue with the build plate. I did try the thicker raft settings yesterday. I am not real happy with that result as the raft tore off the bottom of the part. It was a bummer after running for 35 hours and the breaking it.

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## LyalC52

I will have one to sell next week. Our Objet 500 Connex 1 is in route.
The Z18 was good for getting out feet wet, but its time to ditch the toy and move on to a professional machine.
No tears will be shed when it goes. It was a huge head ache for the most part.

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## DragonXtreme

> I will have one to sell next week. Our Objet 500 Connex 1 is in route.
> The Z18 was good for getting out feet wet, but its time to ditch the toy and move on to a professional machine.
> No tears will be shed when it goes. It was a huge head ache for the most part.


Well that is a totally different beast,  :Smile:  enjoy the new ride.

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## Superdave

How much for the Z18? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

But really, I'm having a huge issue with solid parts and Round parts actually coming out... I don't know ... round and solid!  I've been trying to print out a gear and it keeps coming out for lack of a better definition oval.  And it is not solid as I would wish.  Any comments?

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## LyalC52

$4500.00 + shipping

MakerBot Replicator Z18
Purchased new 8/2014
744 hours
3 smart extruders (1 installed in the printer with about 80 hours on it, 2 brand new in the box)


XXL Spool box


Filament included:
1 XXL Cool Gray 100%
1 XXL True White 5%
1 Large True White 100%
1 Large True Green 95%
1 Large True Black 90%
1 Large Cool Gray 80%


It is sitting on a washer/drayer base with a drawer. Willing to throw it in and the shelf.

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## jandhruv

O_o Thanks ! 
0.3! is something i havent tried yet. 
Thankyou for the in-depth description.

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## jandhruv

Incredible forum. 
Thanks all for your comments.

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