# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > FlashForge Forum >  swapping to glass bed

## Ghosty

ok, i see how ie i can see the 11 hex head fixings but what size are they, as a 2.0 is 2 big and a 1.5 is 2 small i wasnt aware there was anything inbetween those sizes. so could someone tell me how to remove the bolts as i want to remove the alu bed and print on removable glass beds. 

on the subject of glass beds what temps do i need for the heated print bed i will only be using pla, i may use some abs to run out what i have. also i have some blu glue stick (pva i think) will that help addesion or make it worse

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## ssayer

On glass with PLA, I normally go with 60C and Elmer's Purple Glue Stick. When the glass cools off, you hear a few little cricks and cracks and then a *crack* as the part pops loose on it's own...

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## stevendm

I didn't remove the aluminum bed. I went to thingiverse and printed some corner clips that holds the new glass bed on top of the built-in aluminum one. Look at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:546851 and http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:427689.

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## ssayer

I didn't remove the aluminum bed either. I made somewhat similar corner clips out of some aluminum stock that I had on hand.

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## sasabs

> I didn't remove the aluminum bed. I went to thingiverse and printed some corner clips that holds the new glass bed on top of the built-in aluminum one. Look at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:546851 and http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:427689.


How does the z-axis shim get installed. Not clear from picture? what is that paperclip in the foreground for?

Do you know if this fix will work on other models like creator PRO?

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## gdub

When adding a glass plate, is it necessary to do some other settings to account for the loss of the added Z height? Or is there a sensor in the extruder module that will sense this?

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## Ghosty

the loss in z height is why i want to remove the alu bed, i have already made my own corner and side brackets that will stablise the glass and stop it from moving. 

glass is 3mm same as alu bed so should not need any adjustment to work right (z axis wise) i know ill have to level it.

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## jfkansas

First off, you don't need a heated bed for PLA, generally. And if you heat it should only be around 40c. Second, generally you can just clip the glass on top of aluminum build plate. You will need to lower the build plate by compressing the springs or if that isn't enough you might need to shim where the switch is activated.


You can remove the aluminum though, it should just be phillips head screws. I think though you will have problems because the leveling screws would need to go through the glass. I guess you can have them drilled but I don't think glass likes to be drilled/chamfered and have screws tightened into it. It probably will break. The heat plate is a little too thin to countersink into.

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## Geoff

> First off, you don't need a heated bed for PLA, generally. And if you heat it should only be around 40c. Second, generally you can just clip the glass on top of aluminum build plate. You will need to lower the build plate by compressing the springs or if that isn't enough you might need to shim where the switch is activated.
> 
> 
> You can remove the aluminum though, it should just be phillips head screws. I think though you will have problems because the leveling screws would need to go through the glass. I guess you can have them drilled but I don't think glass likes to be drilled/chamfered and have screws tightened into it. It probably will break. The heat plate is a little too thin to countersink into.


I used to agree with the no-heat method, but in all honesty it just doesnt work on my flashforge. On my Kossel and I3 I print PLA on a cold glass bed with blue tape, Perfect!. 

On my Flashforge however, PLA WILL NOT STICK without a minimum of 65c. Go figure  :Confused:

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## jfkansas

Ya, I can see that but definitely not ABS plate temps. They also say Nylon doesn't need heat, but mine works best at 80c. My experience with PLA is limited, but have ran some since I needed a color that I only had in PLA. Used Glue stick I think.

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## sasabs

In my last post I was referring to the piece that goes onto the z axis than stevendm linked to in  this thread. Even 3mm is alot to adjust the bed leveling screws for. Perhaps you could compensate with a z axis offset but I have a feeling that the home command ignores it. You can only put it in firmware if you will be using it all the time.

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## stevendm

There are other shims on thingiverse to account for glass thinner than 6mm. Just search for "creator glass shim" or something like that. Or just try http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:557994. I posted the one I did because my glass is 6mm thick.

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## Ghosty

i have tried the shims etc, but as i cannot undo the nuts or the hex head bolts, i cannot even put the corner clips in to hold the glass, this is why i originally asked if im missing something. i have tried all possible ways, the only other option would be forced removal with a breaker bar, but im still at a loss as to the center one, as the gap is way to small for any thing other than a spanner, or in undoing the sprin loaded bolts (the ones that level the build plate) will the plate then be removable, this is something i nneed to know as if it goes wrong how do i fix it....

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## Ghosty

for those that are interested, 

yes if you remove the 4 leveling nuts the bed does just come off (after you disconnect the plug at the back) 

the remove the alu for the heater pad, its a size 2 allen key and a 7/32 spanner or socket.

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## Ghosty

right so i now have a glass print bed, 

im printing using pla,yes geoff i know your not a fan of that combo, im using a pva (pritt stick) on the glass and the print are sticking great, in fact sticking to great i nearly broke the glass the other day trying to remove a print. 

so bed is heated to 60 pla is at 195, anything colder and i get the click click click of it getting stuck. 

where am i going wrong, what can i do to ease removal, even after 4 hours by a cold wind it was stuck solid.

edit: its actually PolyVinyl Pyrrolidone (PVP) im using.

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## ssayer

I take it that a Pritt Stick is the UK equivalent of an Elmer's Glue stick? Put it in the freezer for about 5 minutes and it should literally fall right off...

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## MakersomeGuy

I like using hairspray... specifically Aqua net extra hold without scent. I spray it on my bed and let it dry. It's super easy and the prints come off really easy after it cools. A lot of times they release on their own. I have an instructional project on my site that might be of help for those looking for info on the glass bed upgrade. Check it out....

http://makersome.com/project/717

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## Ghosty

> I take it that a Pritt Stick is the UK equivalent of an Elmer's Glue stick? Put it in the freezer for about 5 minutes and it should literally fall right off...


yea they are the same, i had to google elmers stick, one link had them side by side lol

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## Ghosty

so after a few weeks of trial and error (on my part), i now have a fully (well sort of fully, ill explain later) working printer.

for those that are just catching up, i have completly removed the alu plate (unplug the electrics at the back, then undo the 4 leveling screws and the heated pad and alu plate pop off, then using a 7/32 spanner and a size 2 allen key you can undo all the bits required), i have then had 3mm float (same as picture frame) glass cut to size (using my now removed alu bed as a guide), using the corner brackets (link is in a previous post) modified in makerware to the correct z height, i now have a fully removable glass build plate (or 3) that requires no z shim etc, the only thing i would mention is dont over tighten the screws when installing the corner brackets, as the heated plate is not as strong as it looks. 

so now thats out of the way, hows it going ??? well its actually going very good, i have now realised i dont have to heat the build plate at all, a simple run over with the PVP stick and all is stuck fine (still sticking like crazy), still have to work that part out, besides that im getting great prints, finally. 

only issue i now have is im retting a lot of clicking (similar to when the feed is stuck) from the left stepper, i have taken the unit apart, and cleaned (even replaced) the toothed part, and its still happening, however it is still extruding pla, both in the pre print ozze strip and when printing, this only happens for the base (bottom 3 layers) and after that its fine. so etier its mis feeding, or im again missing something.

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## jdg56

I'm a 60C heat and hair-spray guy, myself. I've been having great results in the cooler dryer winter weather that way for my PLA printing. As it warms and moistens up, I figure I'll have to adjust things again. Last summer I was running mostly ABS.

Cheers,

John

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## curious aardvark

use pet tape, heat bed to 60-70c and when bed cools prints just lift off. 

Most prints will lift at about 30c. 

Much warmer than that and the pla is still soft. 

So far I've had some realy great results with this combination. Only thing that hasn't worked is a chainmail bracelet. 
They always printed - sort of - on blue tape but tended to break when trying to remove. 

I'll keep fiddling. 
But other than that - clean, flat non-warped prints. And a roll of tape will probably last years. As so far I haven't had to touch it with a scraper.

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## sasabs

After a lot of messing around I find that blue tape, no heat works reliably on my Creator PRO. The bed leveling seems to be more critical.
Nol luck with the blue pad they are shipping now.

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## ngendo20

Added a 1/8" thick high temp glass plate to our 3D printer.  Found the bracket from thingivers to convert the printer to work with a glass plate.  I CNC'd the bracket as the plastic one warps over time.  I do about 3 good coats of hairspray letting the plate dry between sprays for getting the parts to stick.  Works great with ABS and PLA, haven't had an issue with it yet and the hair spray leaves a more even coating then glue stick in my opinion.  This makes it easier to level the build trey.  When the part is done, I let it sit and wait for the glass to cool.  the part comes off on its own when the plate cools with no force from pulling whats so ever

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## Ghosty

so after some play in the glass bed, i realised the corner brackets wernt holding the glass still (im aware its due to the heated plate) so i redesigned them to fit tighter and also stop the z movement by introducing a 45deg bevel, this however cause its own unique issue of coliding with the hotend when it extrudes at the end of the bed before printing. 

so i have now made clearence for this.  :Smile:  

only time will tell if its any better or worse, but for now it seems alot better as there is no movement at all in the glass now. and yes they are still hot swappable as i retained the 2 rear ones in there original design. 

corner_clips_preview_featured.jpg 

here they are and heres the link http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:795832

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## MakersomeGuy

We made a video detailing the install and what is needed. Check it out and let me know if you have any questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNqkgjplGhc

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## jasonfreeland

Thanks for the video, I ordered one of your beds this morning.

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## Nargg

I put 4 of the corner brackets on the bed to hold the glass even firmer in place.  I also have a few glass beds, so I can easily pop one out after a print to remove the model from that glass while another print starts going.  A really quick, nice method to large print projects....

Only trouble I've run into is that the corner brackets are way too close to the filament spools, and sometimes even make contact.  I'm trying right now to re-do some of the filament spool holders off thingiverse so that they hold the spools a little farther away from the bed.

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## Ghosty

ok guys, this is an interesting one. 

while at work yesterday i ws thinking (i think alot at work), why not put kapton tape on glass as my only real issue was removal of print due to the fixed alu build platform, so today i wrapped one of my 4 glass platforms in kapton (i thought this stuff was redundant) and am now printing on it without any issues, parts are sticking like they should, not sure about removal yet, but as i can take the platform out now it should be easier.

on a side note i bought an action cam, so i can film things being printed now (well in a few days when it arrives) lol..

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## Nargg

> ok guys, this is an interesting one. 
> 
> while at work yesterday i ws thinking (i think alot at work), why not put kapton tape on glass as my only real issue was removal of print due to the fixed alu build platform, so today i wrapped one of my 4 glass platforms in kapton (i thought this stuff was redundant) and am now printing on it without any issues, parts are sticking like they should, not sure about removal yet, but as i can take the platform out now it should be easier.
> 
> on a side note i bought an action cam, so i can film things being printed now (well in a few days when it arrives) lol..


Awesome idea Ghosty, i'm getting tired of glue sticks and their iffy usefulness.  Something has to make the surface sticky and I hadn't thought of the kapton tape on glass yet.  Going to try right now.

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## Ghosty

well first print was perfect, abit tought to remove, but not as hard as it was, just needed to twist the part correctly (also a painters paint spatula helped). 

second print is going now and alll looks good on layer 1, ill report back in an hour when its finished.

printed spot on, and came away perfectly, didnt even need the spatula this time..

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## Ghosty

so a week or so into my kapton covered glass bed, and its amazing the difference it makes, things actually work now. prints are coming out great, still have to use an acetone wipe down every other print, but thats not a problem. thinking i may just stick to this way. now time to cover the other glass beds.

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## Nargg

Well, after trying Kapton tape, I'm going back to glue or painters tape.  Kapton tape in my opinion is the devil's work  :Mad:   Getting on a glass bed is a frustration headache just waiting to happen.  And the stickiness just wasn't any better than glue or painters tape from my few test prints.  Some folks may have the patience to use this tape, but it's not for folks who just want to get the job done.  And, since I seem to be able to get similar results with easier to use methods, well then, kapton tape is not an option for me.

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## jaykay2PT

My experience on this issue is, I now use kapton tape on my glass bed, ABS sticks great, the trick? have 2  (or more) glass plates, 
when first one finished, lift the model and plate off the bed, and leave until COLD, model then just falls off plate with no effort, fit another glass plate if you need to be printing something else,

I am getting 8 or more prints off the same kapton covered plate using this method, never looked back since I converted to glass bed with kapton!

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## jfkansas

Kapton isn't really sticky, it is just a material that can withstand high heat and doesn't tear off easily like Blue tape. It is a film instead of a coated paper. You should still use some type of adhesive on the Kapton, like glue stick or hairspray, or ABS Slurry with for ABS prints. I don't think anything beats a nice think borosilicate glass/pyrex, with whatever adhesive is needed. It is flat and easy to clean because nothing permanently adheres to it. It is easy to scrape clean with a razor. Maybe the build tak stuff would come close, I haven't tried it yet.

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## jpixels

> yea they are the same, i had to google elmers stick, one link had them side by side lol


I sometimes use honey, has anyone else tried this? works great with the ultimaker 2, still experimenting with the flash forge

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## Ghosty

@nargg, 
i guess its a works for some and not for others, i just had an idea and thoughid try it out, is that not what 3d printing is about  :Smile: .  i was getting ok results with glue stick, but not enought to justiy it as a permenant solution. i never print in abs so its on pla i have to work with. 

@jaykay
glad i could offer a suggestion that i had not seen tried, and it work for you. like you i have multiple glass beds, and are now all covered with kapton, never really had an issue other than prints sticking to well, and the alu being fixed to the heatpad, now as you say i can just remove the one with a print on, put another in, wipe with acetone and away i go again. 

@jfk 
no that is true, but when heated it has a natural tack that holds the molten pla. i dont need anything ather than a quick acetone wipe every other print and it works just fine. im using float glass (same as in picture frames) of 3mm thickness, guess i just found something that works and im sticking (pun intented) to it.  :Big Grin:  .

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## jaykay2PT

@ghosty
I have been doing it this way for 4 months now!

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## Nargg

OK, here's a little extra help on this topic:

Kapton tape that's _little_ easier to install:  http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B...ilpage_o07_s00 

And something I found that's a LOT easier to install and gets the same result:  http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B...ilpage_o06_s00 

Also, place these sheets on the glass top at start, then tape one side to the side of the bed or glass.  Then lift to that one side, peel the non-stick off starting from that "taped" side and slowly press down with a ruler from that side going slowly to the other while peeling the non-stick off.  Then take the extra tape off.  You'll get excellent results that way.  I learned this from installing glass protectors for cell phones.  The tape on the side helps keep the cover aligned as you pull the non-stick off and apply the cover to the surface.  Edit: found this cell phone example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt9_fZDT-As  same procedure works really well on applying these covers to your print bed.

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## Ghosty

for those that have been following this thread, you will know i have been trying to find a viable method to print perfectly every time, and while i have tried and exausted all methods, with some success on most i have decided to call it a day with a glass bed. not with 3d printing just using glass  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:

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## jfkansas

> for those that have been following this thread, you will know i have been trying to find a viable method to print perfectly every time, and while i have tried and exausted all methods, with some success on most i have decided to call it a day with a glass bed. not with 3d printing just using glass


Wow that is surprising to hear. That is all I print on with ABS. Almost always use slurry, sometimes glue stick on smaller parts and other types of filament.

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