# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  What new printer/extruder features do you want?

## clough42

Many of you are aware of my collection of single and double extruders and upgrade parts for MakerFarm printers.  Everything I've done to date has been based on my needs and the things that bothered me.  I'm thinking about what's next and thought I'd toss the question out there for the community.

What do you like about your printer today?  What frustrates you?

What kinds of upgrades would you like to see?  What would make the printer better?

----------


## curious aardvark

well faster at low res would always be nice. 

nozzles that just click in and out and are universally compatible. That would also be nice. 

Printbite is good, but not everything sticks to it and not everything wants to let go either - but a universal print surface that every thing stuck to while printing and didn't stick to when printing had stopped. 
I'd probably pay more for that than any other aspect of printing it's the single most frustrating thin about 3d printing.

Couple that with auto calibration that was fast and perfect and, i honestly don't think - as things stand - I'd want much else.

If you can print fast, with any material and it always sticks when needed and lets go when needed and it's never out of calibration - that's the holy grail really.

Now throw that lot at a bnc3d sigma dual independant extruder setup, but with direct drive not bowden (use flex3drive for lightweight directdrive setup) and you've got what I'd consider to be the perfect FDM printer.

----------


## Roxy

I want to print metal.

----------


## Ama-fessional Molder

> I want to print metal.


Sinterhard was supposed to make that happen. To date I don't know whether or not any other company has stepped in to fill the now empty hole. The idea was a filament that printed like a polymer, and was then kiln fired to sinter the metal and burn out the resin.


This exact method is already used in injection molding to produce metal components (even for industrial components), but the problem is that I don't think anyone has developed a filament which works in an FDM printer.

----------


## curious aardvark

well if you have to add a kiln and metal processing kit, it's not really an improvement in the printer.

----------


## Roxy

I have access to a kiln.   For the parts I really want made out of metal, I would be willing to fire them.

----------


## curious aardvark

yeah but it's not actually anything to do with the printer - just a different type of filament.

You tried firing bronzefill ? 
probably wouldn't work, but would be fun trying :-)

----------


## Ama-fessional Molder

> well if you have to add a kiln and metal processing kit, it's not really an improvement in the printer.


You wouldn't need a "metal processing kit" (whatever that is), just a desktop printer and a kiln.
Then you need this:




Problem is you need the chamber filled with an inert gas. The cost would be significantly higher, even if you built a small desktop unit, than just FDM printing with a plastic binder.

You need the metal powder, a lot more energy, and consumable gas at the very least. Add milling tools to the cost if you want secondary processing.





> yeah but it's not actually anything to do with the printer - just a different type of filament.


That would be the point, wouldn't it?

----------


## clough42

> You wouldn't need a "metal processing kit" (whatever that is), just a desktop printer and a kiln.
> Then you need this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is you need the chamber filled with an inert gas. The cost would be significantly higher, even if you built a small desktop unit, than just FDM printing with a plastic binder.
> 
> You need the metal powder, a lot more energy, and consumable gas at the very least. Add milling tools to the cost if you want secondary processing.
> ...


Well, this wandered off topic, didn't it?

----------


## BLKKROW

> Well, this wandered off topic, didn't it?


Have you designed anything to fit the Pegasus printer?

----------


## jackal24

Just a couple upgrades for the itty bitty. I would like to see an easy cable chain attachment system. Also, I would love to see a system that retracts a hot end when not in use. It would only have to be a few mm. BTW, I love my itty bitty V2.

----------


## curious aardvark

> Also, I would love to see a system that retracts a hot end when not in use


Now that IS a good idea. 

I've currently got one printer with a nozzle removed to avoid hassle. 
The other printer still has both nozzles attached. But it's a much better built machine and I've never had issues with the nozzle not in use. Plus I use it for dual material prints as well.

Oh and roxy - there is a filament you can print and heat to get metal object :-)
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...rinting-Powder

----------


## Roxy

> Oh and Roxy - there is a filament you can print and heat to get metal object :-)
> http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...rinting-Powder


Very Cool!   I want a spool of it!!!

----------


## beerdart

Like this? 

http://vid113.photobucket.com/albums...ps4kbwfn1m.mp4




> Just a couple upgrades for the itty bitty. I would like to see an easy cable chain attachment system. Also, I would love to see a system that retracts a hot end when not in use. It would only have to be a few mm. BTW, I love my itty bitty V2.

----------


## Roxy

I also want a pair of extruders like that!

----------


## uncle_bob

Hi

Ok, how about a dual extruder setup for the Pegasus 12" with fans on the extruders and dual fans to cool the object? The only real changes from the existing "state of the art" would be the Pegasus mount and getting a fan on the back side of the system. 

===

In terms of crazy ideas: A microswitch that signals when you have run out of filament. Yes, it would need to *go* somewhere to actually be useful. I suppose that even without software support you could use it to fire a buzzer. With the switch on the extruder, you would have to be mighty fast to correct the problem  :Smile: 

Bob

----------


## Roxy

> In terms of crazy ideas: A microswitch that signals when you have run out of filament. Yes, it would need to *go* somewhere to actually be useful. I suppose that even without software support you could use it to fire a buzzer. With the switch on the extruder, you would have to be mighty fast to correct the problem


That's not a crazy idea at all!   Marlin now has support for filament detection and if your setup can handle it, it will automatically reload a new spool of filament.

----------


## Ama-fessional Molder

Actually that would be pretty easy. Just need to run a microswitch inside of a small tube that is triggered by the filament on top of the extruder assembly, or on top of the machine as a filament guide.

If you wanted to get real fancy you can use a through beam, but why spend the money?

The automatic reloading of filament is something I gotta see though.

----------


## TopJimmyCooks

> If you wanted to get real fancy you can use a through beam, but why spend the money?


the filament check thing is easy.  I had it figured out with a U shaped opto switch, left over from a pinball machine repair, that would trigger the z endstop.  Laziness overcame me though.

My answer to C42's question:
retraction for inactive nozzlesquick change carriage/mount for extruder/hotend/zprobe combined unit - dovetail or something else that gives repeatability.ability to easily remove the dual hexagon cooling fan shroud for service of hotends

No low hanging fruit there.  :Smile:   Still using the c42 double (original) and still liking it.  I don't print a lot of 2 filament prints, I mainly use the 2nd as an instant backup or to keep 2 different filaments ready to go.  Have to be really careful to clean the unused nozzle so a nib of plastic doesn't pick the early layers of a print off the bed.

----------


## clough42

> Hi
> 
> Ok, how about a dual extruder setup for the Pegasus 12" with fans on the extruders and dual fans to cool the object? The only real changes from the existing "state of the art" would be the Pegasus mount and getting a fan on the back side of the system. 
> 
> ===
> 
> In terms of crazy ideas: A microswitch that signals when you have run out of filament. Yes, it would need to *go* somewhere to actually be useful. I suppose that even without software support you could use it to fire a buzzer. With the switch on the extruder, you would have to be mighty fast to correct the problem 
> 
> Bob


I believe the existing extruders will fit the Pegasus.  The X axis extrusion spacing is the same, so you would need to print the X axis backing plate and mount the wheels and everything else to that, and you should be in business.

Unless I have misunderstood what you're looking for.

Bringing the fans around the back side is a possibility.  I looked at it at one point and didn't think there was enough room to get full X travel on the i3v.  Maybe it would work better on the Pegasus.

----------


## clough42

I have been thinking about retracting the hot ends for a while.  The video below didn't work for me, so I'm not sure what it shows.  [Edit: Ahh...beerdart, so this is the spring-loaded hollow-bolt hot ends?]  There is at least one rocking extruder system on Thingiverse that uses a servo and a cam to rock the whole assembly left and right, pushing the unused tip onto a metal spring to stop the ooze.  There are also various hot end setups that use the filament pressure to force the hot end downward against spring pressure.

I have looked at the rocking option, but didn't immediately come up with anything I loved.  The biggest challenge with is the pivot.  Getting something rigid, precise and repeatable with off-the-shelf parts (3D printed and common bearings) is tough.  Maybe I'll keep playing with it.

Another idea that's floating around out there is independent hot end assemblies that can be picked up by the carriage with electromagnets and parked at the side of the printer when not in use.  This would pretty much have to be a bowden setup.

----------


## beerdart

The hollow bolt was v1 the vid is v2. Its a E3D hotend with the top groove machined off and a new top hat attached with a hollow flat head screw. The mounting plate was thickened and a tight tolerance brass bushing pressed in and a wave spring is used for retract. Ill snap some pics next time one is off.

----------


## dustmann

> Many of you are aware of my collection of single and double extruders and upgrade parts for MakerFarm printers.  Everything I've done to date has been based on my needs and the things that bothered me.  I'm thinking about what's next and thought I'd toss the question out there for the community.
> 
> What do you like about your printer today?  What frustrates you?
> 
> What kinds of upgrades would you like to see?  What would make the printer better?


I would really like to see improvements for multiple filament printing.  Maybe I just haven't spent enough time tuning my printer, but the inevitable ooze from the unused hot-end almost always ends up with a nib that breaks the print loose, or drips some unwanted color/material into the print.  The temperature drop/retraction method for the inactive extruder works fairly well, and the pillars method wastes too much filament to be practical in my opinion.  The retracting hot ends I have seen seem unduly complicated and I question repeatability with reasonable accuracy.  

I have seen a couple of clever servo mounted wipers for the nozzles on delta printers, but have not seen it implemented in a prusa frame as of yet.  Would it be possible to mount something like that on the X carriage (so as to move with the Z axis)?

----------


## clough42

> I would really like to see improvements for multiple filament printing.  Maybe I just haven't spent enough time tuning my printer, but the inevitable ooze from the unused hot-end almost always ends up with a nib that breaks the print loose, or drips some unwanted color/material into the print.  The temperature drop/retraction method for the inactive extruder works fairly well, and the pillars method wastes too much filament to be practical in my opinion.  The retracting hot ends I have seen seem unduly complicated and I question repeatability with reasonable accuracy.  
> 
> I have seen a couple of clever servo mounted wipers for the nozzles on delta printers, but have not seen it implemented in a prusa frame as of yet.  Would it be possible to mount something like that on the X carriage (so as to move with the Z axis)?


It's possible.  Wiping will help, but not if the nozzle keeps oozing.

----------


## uncle_bob

Hi

One "obvious" solution to the drip drip drip might be to drop the temperature on the hot end when it's not in use. Yes that has zip to do with extruder design ...

Bob

----------


## clough42

Most slicers that support dual extrusion have this option.  It definitely helps, at the expense of print speed.

----------


## beerdart

> The hollow bolt was v1 the vid is v2. Its a E3D hotend with the top groove machined off and a new top hat attached with a hollow flat head screw. The mounting plate was thickened and a tight tolerance brass bushing pressed in and a wave spring is used for retract. Ill snap some pics next time one is off.


Pics as I was cleaning up the hot ends.

----------


## Talon 3D

Have to get you and anvil and a forge. Hehe
I know what you mean though. I would love to be able to print strong metal parts. It would solve some issues on the farm when something obscure breaks and you need a replacement in a short amount of time not a week or more.

----------


## Talon 3D

That stuff looks great. Have to pay out an arm plus a leg for it but heck you could print a sweet looking replacement with this filament. Now I am wanting this. Just a few pounds of it. LOL




> Now that IS a good idea. 
> 
> I've currently got one printer with a nozzle removed to avoid hassle. 
> The other printer still has both nozzles attached. But it's a much better built machine and I've never had issues with the nozzle not in use. Plus I use it for dual material prints as well.
> 
> Oh and roxy - there is a filament you can print and heat to get metal object :-)
> http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...rinting-Powder

----------


## clough42

Thanks for posting the photos.  That looks really good.  How much vertical motion does it produce, and how does it register?  Does the washer bottom consistently?  Do you get any X/Y artifacts?

I was thinking about something like this over the weekend, and this is very similar to what I was designing in my head, except my imaginary design had a much longer vertical stroke.  Perhaps it isn't needed?

What's with the nozzle?  That doesn't look like an E3D part.

James






> Pics as I was cleaning up the hot ends.

----------


## beerdart

The wave washer has .022" or .55mm movement and bottom's out each push. X/Y is pretty rock solid. The nozzle is generic and works well ( broke the originals when I was drilling them to 3mm as at the time I could only get 1.75) . 


> Thanks for posting the photos.  That looks really good.  How much vertical motion does it produce, and how does it register?  Does the washer bottom consistently?  Do you get any X/Y artifacts?
> 
> I was thinking about something like this over the weekend, and this is very similar to what I was designing in my head, except my imaginary design had a much longer vertical stroke.  Perhaps it isn't needed?
> 
> What's with the nozzle?  That doesn't look like an E3D part.
> 
> James

----------

