# 3D Printing > 3D Printers (Hardware) >  Klic-N-Print Dual Extruder printer, $299 Good Buy??

## lordkhomar

https://knp3d.com/product/klic-n-print-3d-desktop-printer/

I saw this mentioned in another thread at $399, went to the site to check it out and saw it was down to $299.  Does anyone have any experience with this printer?

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## curious aardvark

yes I have one. 
It's essentially an unenclosed replicator dual pro. Equivalent to the flahsforge creator pro. 

Seriously well made and engineered machine. AT that price - there is no reason not to get one :-) 
Heavy duty all metal chassis. Just a cracking bit of kit.

And if you wanted to enclose it - it would be very easy. just add a door and lid. Seen people do that with laminating pouches and magnets. 

They're clearly selling off the stock. The company makes machines for crafters and went into the 3d printer market thinking their existing customaers would all dash out and buy 3d printers. 
Apparently, this did not happen. 

But it's still a superb machine. 
The only issue I've ever had is that I don't like the three wheel bed levelling system. 
Other than that had it around 2 1/2 years. never had a single issue with any part of it.

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## JustMatt

I've seen you critical about the 3 point leveling system in another thread.  Can you elaborate your dislike for the 3 point vs. the 4 point leveling plate?  The Sindoh printer at my old job was a 3 point and my Tronxy kit at home is a 4 point.  In theory, I thought the 3 point plate would be better because a plane can be defined by 3 points, whereas 4 points can overdefine or throw out a plane.  Just curious what your thoughts are.

Also, are there any modifications you've done to your K-N-P printer?  Does it have any kind of leveling assist?  Also, it looks like it doesn't use plain g-code, but a different format you need to convert g-code into.  Is that accurate, and if so is it a pain to deal with?  I was looking at the Monoprice Maker Ultimate, but I could get the Klic-N-Print one and an inexpensive delta kit for that price, and the K-N-P printer is a dual extruder to boot.

Thanks for any input,

Regards,

Matt

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## lordkhomar

Thanks for the insight on this Aardvark.  I went ahead and ordered one. I noticed the filament is pretty cheap too

As far as the 3 vs.4 point leveling, I'm actually looking forward to 3 point.  I currently have a monoprice maker select with 4 point and it's horrible to level.  

I started using Mattercontrol instead of Cura since it has software leveling and it's been effortless, hopefully ill be able to use it with the KnP

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## curious aardvark

see I don't get this. 

A wheel at each corner makes it unbelieveably easy to work out what each wheel or pair of wheels is doing. 
Where-as a triangle in the centre of a rectangle is almost impossible to visualise what each wheel is doing. 
The back wheel can adjust a whole plane - but the two front wheels can only tilt. 
Just can't get my head round it. 

Say I need to drop the left side a little. On a 4 point system I simply adjust the two left wheels the same amount. 
On a 3 point system - where do you start ? 
None of the wheels adjusts the left side by itself. They all also change every other geometry as well.
I genuinely hate it. 

Without that levelling system, I'd have used her a lot more. 
The fact that I won her in the big 3dprintboard competition a couple or so years back, also means that I don't have any real money invested in her so never felt a strong desire to fight the 3 point levelling. 

Now on a delta - it makes sense. No corners on a round build plate, so a three point system makes sense and is understandable. 
But using a triangle to leval a rectangle - it's nonsensical.

*** 




> Also, are there any modifications you've done to your K-N-P printer?   Does it have any kind of leveling assist?  Also, it looks like it  doesn't use plain g-code, but a different format you need to convert  g-code into.  Is that accurate, and if so is it a pain to deal with?  I  was looking at the Monoprice Maker Ultimate, but I could get the  Klic-N-Print one and an inexpensive delta kit for that price, and the  K-N-P printer is a dual extruder to boot.


Added print area cooling fan. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:537918
That's it :-) 
Oh and smaller diameter filament holders.  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:559623
I use that with cheap 8mm carriage bolts and a vinyl tape for covering the pointy end and getting a really tight fit.  

As far as converting gcode to x3g files - knp supply a convertor program to do it for you - never tried it. I've always used simplify 3d or makerware desktop with the knp - so it's never been an issue as both programs convert automatically.  
https://knp3d.com/software/#knp3dconverter

I never got dual extrusion to work on my flashforge creator - but it's one of the things I do use the knp for. You need a good dribble wall. So I generally use makerware for dual extrusion as I've yet to get simplify3d to do it effectively. 
I suspect it would also print a lot faster than the flashforge, given how rigid and heavy it is - but that damnable 3 point levelling just puts me off using her to her full potential. 

But the knp and the he3d k200 kit would be a perfect couple :-)

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## JustMatt

I like both of your points.  The Sindoh printer I used at my old job had a leveling assist function that told you how many turns of the left and right screws were needed to level the bed.  I'm guessing this feature wouldn't work with a 4 point plate.  However, I can see where if you already have a method using one way, the other might seem foreign.  

Thanks for the extra info on the K-N-P too.  Seems like a too good to be true price / performance combo.  I'll have to see what I can do to get the wheels moving quick on one.  At that price, they have to be running out of stock soon.

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## curious aardvark

yeah get in quick. 
It's a seriously engineered machine. And based on opensource, so if you should get any issues - easy to fix. 
I also really like that the control panel is at the top of the machine. easy to see if you're standing up. 

Oh yeah, the rubber feet fall off. 
Glue them on :-) Or make better fitting feet lol
I've yet to get round to making better feet. 

And yes john, I follow the onscreen levelling. But, all the knobs are i the middle of the plate. So the slightest variation translates to a larger difference at the edges of the plate.

I do a lot of bed levelling as things are being printed. With 4 points - it's dead easy. Hell any kind of levelling of a rectangular plate is simple with a screw at each corner. 
Nope you will never convince me that a small triangle in the centre of  a large rectangle is a good idea for levelling purposes.

With the delta the screws are set at the very edge of the plate and it's round, so makes sense. 

But that is genuinely the only gripe I have with the machine and they were copying the replicator pro, so not really their fault :-)

Three points is the MINIMUM number required for levelling - not the best. Just the least you can get away with.

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## lordkhomar

Printer was delivered yesterday.  Unfortunately it doesn't work.  When I switch it on there's no welcome screen, just two white bars.  The power supply also seems to make way too much noise.  I opened a support ticket, hopefully it'll be sorted out soon.  Other than that, seems like a seriously well constructed machine.

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## curious aardvark

That'd a bugger - mine crossed the atllantic with no issues.

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## lordkhomar

Support pointed me to a loose cable, pressed it in and printer is working fine now.  I opened up MatterControl 1.7, added a 'Flashforge Creator Pro Dual' profile from the drop down and hit 'connect', it connected with no problem.  I adjusted the print bed size, opened one of my 'creations' and hit print.  Screen reported extruder and bed temp, once it hit the target temp it started printing.  No need to convert the GCode file.  I let it print for a few minutes and cancelled it as I need to level the print bed.

I'll try software bed leveling now, don't want to deal with the 3 screws...

All in all, from what I've seen so far, a very nice stable printer, doesn't shake like my monoprice maker select plus does.

I might just buy another and send it to my dad..

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## curious aardvark

weird mine uses x3g files, not gcode.

Ah, okay mattercontrol automatically converts. 

And how do you electronically level a replicator clone ?

Yep they are very quiet machines. Not unusual for me to have to look across at it to check it's still running.

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## lordkhomar

Software leveling is exactly the same as manually leveling.  The difference is the software moves the print head to 3 points on the build plate.  Each time it starts at 10mm above it, and you click '+' to move it down 1mm at a time until you feel resistance to moving the paper, then click '-' to back off 1mm.  Next you click '+' to move it down .1mm at a time until you feel resistance, then click '-' to back off .1mm.  Finally you click '+' to move down .01mm until you fell resistance, then click '+' one more time.  You do this over the 3 points. It's a lot more accurate than manually leveling.

I'm looking to go with a glass build area, any suggestions?

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## curious aardvark

printbite :-) 
lol
So is the levelling done from the mattercontrol or the control panel ? 

Sounds like best way is to do the manual levelling in the centre of the plate (take a minute or so via the control panel) where the wheels are and the electronic out at the corner edges where any slight 'off-level' effect is greatest.

Actually on the knp I'm using the plastic stick on sheet that came with it and pva glue. But then it's primarily used for flexible stuff. Interesting to try this software based levelling though.

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## lordkhomar

It's done from mattercontrol on your PC.

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## JustMatt

Thanks for the updates lordkhomar.  I should have one on the way soon, so I will be using the experiences you post here as my guide.

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## lordkhomar

I tried leveling with the knobs, wasn't fun.  They aren't 'fine' enough for me.  Software leveling worked like a charm though.  On another note, I tried printing with some PVA for support and the output from the left extruder was about 2 inches too far to the left.  I'll need to go over the profile when I get a chance tonight to see where I can adjust that.

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## curious aardvark

sounds like the software isn't applying the nozzle offset. 

And yep - because of where the levelling knobs are and how close together - it's bloody difficult to get the edges of the plate level. One reason i tend to fine tune while it's printing.

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## ibowfish

Question...Klic-n-print or Qidi X-one? Looking for a first printer and these 2 seem somewhat comparable. This thread speaks well of the Klic-n-print, but $145 shipping makes it not quite such a great deal. Qidi x-one on Amazon, free shipping at $399. Hmmm, suggestions?

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## ibowfish

Thanks for the reply number40Fan, much appreciated.

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## JustMatt

So, I got mine in. Did I get a used one? There's a print started on the bed and it looks like there's a piece of adhesive that is smaller than the Kapton tape covering the whole print bed. The extruder was also out of the box and just rolling around the box. Going to get in touch with customer service tomorrow, but just wondering what other people's experience was.

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## curious aardvark

At that price, as long as it works - who cares ?
You're getting an $800 printer for $300 - and you're still complaining ?

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## JustMatt

I agree with both of you.  On one hand, it is a crazy value.  On the other hand, I don't know the circumstances that somebody else returned it for.  It looks like the bed has a Kapton film on it, but can any of you identify the second film on top of it?  I'd rather not have it since I plan on using the whole bed, but I imagine that removing it will ruin the film it is stuck on.  Also, there's plastic drips stuck to one of the nozzles.  If it was returned, it was given the bare minimum of review before being resold to me, and I don't want to inherit somebody else's gremlins.  We'll see what customer service has to say.

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## lordkhomar

I had already talked to customer service about a different issue.  The print on the bed is the test print they do before they ship it out.  Their customer service is great.  I had an issue with the fan being too loud and they just shipped me a new printer which I received yesterday.

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## JustMatt

So, I've only had a little time to play around with the new machine.  Do I need to run this slower or cooler without the print area cooling fan mod?  Here's the quick test print I set up next to one from my other printer:



The top is very smudged compared to the other one.  I'm also more used to using Cura, so I'm not sure if I'm messing up something in Slic3r.  Any suggestions?

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## AzArtisan

I also ordered the KNP3D.  Like you I had a noisy fan and was going to call to get it taken care of, but when I went to turn the machine on prior to calling them, it lit up, went 'click', and shut off permanently.  Accugraphics got me a replacement out that day and a call tag to ship the broken one back.  The new one works great and I've been testing a few different filaments through it.  So far I've printed with Hatchbox Blue PLA, 3D Solutions Red PLA, and SainSmart Black ABS.  The ABS I couldn't get to stick to anything till I found a post about using Hairspray on Glass with the Bed at 105C and the Extruder at 222C.  It's worked great since using these settings.  I did the 8x10 glass bed setup using the modified clips from 3dhobbyist.com.  The clips are just a hair (1/16") too long front to back so the glass slides a bit without tape but it's been great for everything I've printed so far.  I haven't needed to clean and re apply the hairspray to the glass yet but I think I might soon, only because I've scuffed it a little using a scraper impatiently trying to get things to release.  I had some Hatchbox Wood and Glow show up last week but haven't had a chance to print with them yet.  Hello glowing eye'd wood Groot!

I started using Slic3r, the read somewhere on here about MatterControl and was using that with good success till I got Simplify3d.  I'm still playing around with the profiles trying to tweak everything for the best finish and time.  Most of the default settings work well for me including 60mm/s print speed.  I do use 30mm/s for the first layer.  PLA seems to do good for me between 220 and 230 with 60c bed temp.  ABS works great at 222 extruder and 105 bed.  For the ABS I have a piece of acrylic that I prop up in front of the machine and place a plastic storage tote over top of the printer to keep the heat in.  With the tote I just make sure not to wedge the filament tubes or block the rolls in any way.  I haven't used rafts yet but I do print a skirt/brim around things.  I've had good success with 20-30% infill with Honeycomb or Rectilinear.  I made a Air Assist Nozzle for my laser yesterday, using Fusion 360.  I printed using Concentric infill, which for the small size worked great.

For me, I think getting the bed aligned was the hardest part, and one that can greatly affect print quality.  Using a post-it-note I went around to all three knobs and adjusted the head to just where it was slightly rough running it under them.  I think the thinner the paper the better, excluding tissue paper.  I did have to loosen the left extruder and level it to the right.  I loosened the left, pressed it down past the right, then slowly lifted the bed to raise the left up level with the right.  It took several times but I was able to get it tightened without it moving after several attempts.

This is my first 3d Printer and after finding this forum and through Curious Ardvarks guidance and messages I'm almost ready to jump on the Delta bandwagon.  I really like the KNP3D and think it's a great bargain.  I'm trying to get into the mindset that if it's not printing it's not making money! 

I'll post some picks when I have time. 

Cheers!

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## eligri

Is it worth buying a knp3d, even if shipping will cost me 150-200$?

Cheers

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## curious aardvark

that's a tricky one - where do you live ? 
Most likely you can get a qidi or monoprice froma local source that might be cheaper (essentially the same machine)

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## eligri

I live in Sweden, but visit america every year. So shipping would be 70$, but then it would cost another 80-110$ for the luggage home.

I can get a similar printer for 450-500$? Would prefer not to buy a printer right now, but if that price for the knp3d was a great deal, I'd buy it.

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## curious aardvark

which amazon do you use ?

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## eligri

> which amazon do you use ?


Usually co.uk, or the new german one. Sometimes tricky with shipping, but can usually figure something out.

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## curious aardvark

have a look at the new qidi: https://www.amazon.co.uk/QIDI-TECHNO...&keywords=qidi

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## eligri

How is it compared to the knp3d?

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## DaveB

> How is it compared to the knp3d?


Knp3d is a dual extruder machine.  Down side is it uses 8mm Z-Axis rods which can make the platform a bit loose.  It does not have a front door, so a hood and front door w/b needed for use w/ ABS.
QiDi X-One2 is a single extruder machine.  10mm Z-Axis rods, Not sure if it has a hood or not.

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## curious aardvark

Platform on my knp is anything but loose.
How would the size of the screw effect that ?

Other than that - yep.

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## DaveB

> Platform on my knp is anything but loose.
> How would the size of the screw effect that ?
> 
> Other than that - yep.


Not the screw, the rods.  They are a component with a major impact upon the build platform's rigidity.  Larger dia Z-Axis rods (10-12mm) are more rigid, provide more surface for the (also larger) Z-Axis bearings to grab, and will not flex / sag to the same degree.  I have an early version of the QiDi Tech 1. It originally came w/ 8mm rods, and when small zig-zag patterns were printed the build platform would occasionally resonate and shimmy back and forth with the extruder's motion. The extruder's X-Axis motion seemed particularly easily coupled into the build platfporm.  I replaced the Z-Axis rods & bearings w/ 10mm dia and shifted to a carbon fiber print platform.  No more shimmy, reduced reflection ripples in prints, and even better, I only RARELY have to re-level the platform.  Here is a link for a similar upgrade kit. http://store.wmdproducts.com/index.p...&product_id=67

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## raylo32

Damn you guys... I've just gone and picked up one of these, too.  The price was too good to pass up.  as far as the 3 points vs 4 all I have experience with is my Qidi X One 3-point leveling and it is very easy and seems to be very accurate.

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## NCFatBoy

Anyone concerned about the fact that this is a fire sale and likely no parts or support in the future? This appears to be a really good deal, but I am a novice and concerned about the lack of information on this printer. It says Windows/Mac OS. Does the Mac OS or Windows level matter? Maybe I missed the spec sheet.

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## curious aardvark

both flashprint (best free slicer for the knp - select creator pro) and simplify 3d (best commercial slicer) work on both windows and macs - so no problem with compatibility. 

As far as parts go - it's based on the original makerbot replicator dual. Probably the most copied 3d printer ever. 
As such, compatible parts are easy to get. 

No clue on what mac os you need - but windows 7 on up is fine. 
Did some work for a customer on a mac recently. 
What a piece of junk ! 
Had to update it to latest os - jeezusss, horrendous. How you people put up with it is beyond me :-)
What's with the one button mouse ? 
Scrolling in windows would have me putting a hammer through it inside a day. Scroll bars show up when they feel like it, no alternative for scrolling. You get the feeling whoever wrote the os - does not use it.
If you want  a non-windows 10 machine, go linux - definitely NOT apple.

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## NCFatBoy

Thanks, appreciate it.




> both flashprint (best free slicer for the knp - select creator pro) and simplify 3d (best commercial slicer) work on both windows and macs - so no problem with compatibility. 
> 
> As far as parts go - it's based on the original makerbot replicator dual. Probably the most copied 3d printer ever. 
> As such, compatible parts are easy to get. 
> 
> No clue on what mac os you need - but windows 7 on up is fine. 
> Did some work for a customer on a mac recently. 
> What a piece of junk ! 
> Had to update it to latest os - jeezusss, horrendous. How you people put up with it is beyond me :-)
> ...

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## raylo32

Well, my KnP came yesterday evening and it looked good. I got this because it was a screaming deal and thought it'd be a good way to be ready to print several colors without having to change the filament spool on my Qidi XOne single every time.

As noted it had a small test print left behind and a strange small Kapton tape square that was smaller than the 150x150 build area.  Not sure what that is all about.  I removed it as I plan to use a glass plate. 

Assembly was easy, installing the extruders, filament tubes and spools took maybe 15 minutes.   But...  Houston we have a problem.  When I fired it up the screen came on, then went out.   Cycled the power switch and came back on.  Hmmm...  I installed the filaments into the extruders following the online manual (preheat, feed filament until it extrudes), no problem.  But now the machine will not power up at all.  Nuthin', no lights, no noises... nuthin'. I pulled the cover plate from the bottom to look for a fuse... didn't find one or see any obvious problem.  I have started a support ticket online and will call them tomorrow.

Also, a question for CA...  Simplify3D does not have a selection for the KnP in the configuration dropdown.  I went to the KnP website and it had a .fff configuration file set available for download.  I did that and imported it into S3D and those choices are available in the print process configuration menu, but not in the overall device configuration manager drop down.  Is this the way this is supposed to work?  Just curious why S3D doesn't have a KnP config setting in the device drop down like for my Qidi.  I thought S3D was supposed to be pretty much universally compatible.  I haven't had the chance to try this for a test print yet because the printer doesn't fire up.

And for other folks thinking about the KnP realize you need to do another step to convert the gcode from your slicer to x3g.  KnP provides a free converter but this is a minor PITA.... more files to manage and more file clutter.  Not sure why they can't or just didn't make the firmware able to recognize and work with straight gcode.

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## raylo32

Newer model Qidi X-One (X-One 2) comes with hood and door.  That is the version Amazon shipped me a few weeks ago.  It does a pretty good job with ABS although based on my recent experience and CA's comments I don't know why we would really want to use the stuff when there are better and easier to print choices for most applications.




> Knp3d is a dual extruder machine.  Down side is it uses 8mm Z-Axis rods which can make the platform a bit loose.  It does not have a front door, so a hood and front door w/b needed for use w/ ABS.
> QiDi X-One2 is a single extruder machine.  10mm Z-Axis rods, Not sure if it has a hood or not.

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## raylo32

I found the fuse, it is a little F8AL250v glass fuse in the power socket.  It isn't blown... the wire is intact...  but I put my meter on it and it is open circuit.  It is possible that the fuse was damaged in transit and one end come loose from the metal cap.  Need to see if I can find one of those around locally.  Might be tough now Radio Shack is gone.

Oddly I had a 1 amp version of this around...  I tried it and it blew.  Not surprising since the F8 is an 8 amp fuse.

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## raylo32

Qidi to the rescue...  My Qidi XOne came with a little tool kit that included 2 spare fuses with exact same spec.  Popped on in to the KnP and viola, back in business.  Running a test print now.  I did discover that S3D using the KnP profile directly outputs x3g files saving the need for manual conversion.  The other thing I discovered and don't have a solution to yet is that the machine ignored the heated bed request and setpoint for the PLA test print I am running.  The default had been no heat and I changed it to 40C but the machine ignored the setting??  Seems to be sticking fine regardless and printing fine.

2 other observations with the KnP:

1. It seems looser and noisier than my Qidi.  I think I'll put some silglyde on the sliders.

2. The 2 extruders are not even, the right one is noticeably closer to the build table.  This might be a real problem preventing me from using the left extruder, unless there is a way to adjust the nozzle height.  If that can't be fixed I will have to return it... or maybe get a new dual extruder head from KnP.  I looks like one nozzle might just be threaded in a bit more than the other.  So maybe half a turn with a wrench is all it needs?

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## raylo32

Found this in the KnP manual, LOL.  This printer was a good deal, but it is also a good deal of work.  I will keep looking for online instructions to adjust the nozzle.   I pulled the fan and there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to get at it.


"The left nozzle is higher than the right one and it’s resulting in printing issues on the left side. Contact KNK USA and we will assist you in making an adjustment to that nozzle."

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## NCFatBoy

> Qidi to the rescue...  My Qidi XOne came with a little tool kit that included 2 spare fuses with exact same spec.  Popped on in to the KnP and viola, back in business.  Running a test print now.  I did discover that S3D using the KnP profile directly outputs x3g files saving the need for manual conversion.  The other thing I discovered and don't have a solution to yet is that the machine ignored the heated bed request and setpoint for the PLA test print I am running.  The default had been no heat and I changed it to 40C but the machine ignored the setting??  Seems to be sticking fine regardless and printing fine.
> 
> 2 other observations with the KnP:
> 
> 1. It seems looser and noisier than my Qidi.  I think I'll put some silglyde on the sliders.
> 
> 2. The 2 extruders are not even, the right one is noticeably closer to the build table.  This might be a real problem preventing me from using the left extruder, unless there is a way to adjust the nozzle height.  If that can't be fixed I will have to return it... or maybe get a new dual extruder head from KnP.  I looks like one nozzle might just be threaded in a bit more than the other.  So maybe half a turn with a wrench is all it needs?


Good to hear it was just the fuse. Mine shipped today. Should arrive Thursday.

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## DaveB

Just saw that the knp price has jumped up to $499.

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## raylo32

I paid $299 plus about $45 shipping.  Maybe the $499 includes free shipping?  Jury is still out on this thing, though.  I am not convinced yet that the second extruder will be useful.  The printer printed OK with just the right extruder when the left was higher and out of the way.  But after lowering the left to be about equal to the right and after leveling the table to the right extruder, I still see subtle differences in the clearances between the 2 extruders at different parts of the table and I am having issues where the inactive extruder catches on the print and ruins it.  I guess it is possible the table isn't completely flat.  I am going to install a piece of glass,  re level it and see if that helps.  I picked up some cheap picture frames from Michaels for the glass.  That is what I am using on the Qidi X-One and it works great.  Frames were on sale for $5 and have two panes of glass each.  Not a perfect fit but having some hanging over the edge isn't an issue.

Meanwhile my Qidi chugs happily along printing anything I throw at it.  Perhaps I should have just got another one of those.

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## NCFatBoy

Just looked again today. Price is now $499.

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## raylo32

Yeah, at $299 we got the deal!




> Just looked again today. Price is now $499.

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## raylo32

Not sure if you read my KnP startup up posts but if I were you I'd check that the extruder nozzles are level before you load filament.  Mine weren't even close.  I have adjusted the left one down so they both print but may go back and try to get them even closer to equal.  Mine are close enough now that I am judging "equal" mostly based on friction on a leveling paper.  One approach that might work is to loosen both completely so there is no stiction then turn the table lead screw to run the table up so they both rest on it... then tighten the set screws.  Or you might be lucky and get a unit that was properly calibrated.




> Good to hear it was just the fuse. Mine shipped today. Should arrive Thursday.

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## NCFatBoy

> Not sure if you read my KnP startup up posts but if I were you I'd check that the extruder nozzles are level before you load filament.  Mine weren't even close.  I have adjusted the left one down so they both print but may go back and try to get them even closer to equal.  Mine are close enough now that I am judging "equal" mostly based on friction on a leveling paper.  One approach that might work is to loosen both completely so there is no stiction then turn the table lead screw to run the table up so they both rest on it... then tighten the set screws.  Or you might be lucky and get a unit that was properly calibrated.


And hope the table is properly leveled...  :Smile:

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## raylo32

I wouldn't count on that. Leveling the table is simple, tho.

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## raylo32

For those of you with the KnP I have designed a simple accessory to better secure the filament spools, available at the link below.  I am also working on a z-axis shim for use with a glass build plate.  I just need to test print and maybe tweak a few dimensions.  I'll post it up here when I am done.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2559323

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## NCFatBoy

> For those of you with the KnP I have designed a simple accessory to better secure the filament spools, available at the link below.  I am also working on a z-axis shim for use with a glass build plate.  I just need to test print and maybe tweak a few dimensions.  I'll post it up here when I am done.
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2559323


Glass is better?

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## raylo32

It is for me.  There are lots of ways to go...  painters tape/w glue stick for PLA, painters tape with ABS juice for ABS.  I use glass table with hair spray for everything and seems to work best and easiest for me.  Very repeatable and you get a nice smooth finish on the bottom.  Others use Printbite or other manufactured product which I haven't tried myself yet.  If this is your first printer you will need to see what works best for you.




> Glass is better?

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## mjf55

> It is for me.  There are lots of ways to go...  painters tape/w glue stick for PLA, ...


 Just to jump in here, I find the green Frog tape ( different kind of painters tape ) sticks to the glass better than blue, and I dont seem to need glue ( for PLA)  When I used blue painters tape (3m brand) the model will pull up the tape as I try to remove the model. 
Just my experience... and 2 cents worth.

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## raylo32

That's funny I was using Frog Tape, too, since that's what I had around, just stuck to the OEM printer table.  Now with glass and aquanet I don't use tape at all anymore.




> Just to jump in here, I find the green Frog tape ( different kind of painters tape ) sticks to the glass better than blue, and I dont seem to need glue ( for PLA)  When I used blue painters tape (3m brand) the model will pull up the tape as I try to remove the model. 
> Just my experience... and 2 cents worth.

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## mjf55

> That's funny I was using Frog Tape, too, since that's what I had around, just stuck to the OEM printer table.  Now with glass and aquanet I don't use tape at all anymore.


Double funny, I tried Aquanet and did not have a good experience.  Put a funny film on the part also didn't stick all that well.  Maybe (probably) I didn't apply it correctly.  So I went back to Frog tape.

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## mjf55

Meant to add what is your Aquanet application method, how much, how often, how do you know enough is enough.  Sorry to take this thread in a slight detour.

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## raylo32

I've done it a couple of ways. I watched a youtube video and this guy said to spray a few heavy layers on and let it dry.  That worked well, but I have fastened my glass to the bed and don't really want to be spraying inside the machine.  So I came up with an alternate method to just spray a paper towel good and wet and apply by wiping to a preheated bed, like 60 degrees.  Spray, wipe and repeat a couple of times.  It dries pretty much instantly and you are ready to go.  It seems to work well with most materials but best with ABS.  When the bed cools the ABS part is totally unstuck.  Amazing.  PLA seems to stay stuck a bit even when it cools so sometimes takes some work to release. 

Edit:  I don't really know how often to refresh the Aquanet or clean and reapply since I am pretty much printing on my original application after a couple dozen models. 




> Meant to add what is your Aquanet application method, how much, how often, how do you know enough is enough.  Sorry to take this thread in a slight detour.

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## raylo32

I see a few folks have downloaded my KnP spool spacer over on Thingiverse.  I have just uploaded a V2 design that includes some tabs to squeeze that make it much easier to remove.  Not a huge deal or big change but that is one thing I found a little difficult with the original design.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2559323

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## mjf55

> I've done it a couple of ways. I watched a youtube video and this guy said to spray a few heavy layers on and let it dry.  That worked well, but I have fastened my glass to the bed and don't really want to be spraying inside the machine.  So I came up with an alternate method to just spray a paper towel good and wet and apply by wiping to a preheated bed, like 60 degrees.  Spray, wipe and repeat a couple of times.  It dries pretty much instantly and you are ready to go.  It seems to work well with most materials but best with ABS.  When the bed cools the ABS part is totally unstuck.  Amazing.  PLA seems to stay stuck a bit even when it cools so sometimes takes some work to release. 
> 
> Edit:  I don't really know how often to refresh the Aquanet or clean and reapply since I am pretty much printing on my original application after a couple dozen models.


Thanks for that, I'll have to give it a try again.

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## raylo32

I finished the Z=axis shim for adding a glass plate to the KnP, 3mm and 2mm sizes.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2563761

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## mjf55

> I finished the Z=axis shim for adding a glass plate to the KnP, 3mm and 2mm sizes.
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2563761


raylo32, it not there (yet?)  did you actually publish it ( that bit me once )

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## curious aardvark

you know you can adjust up to at least 5mm z-height just by using the adjuster knobs ? 
ie: you simply don't need shims unless you're adding something really thick. 

Amazing how many people do things like that when it's not actually necessary. 

As far filament holding the best I've found is this one:  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:430453
I use it with 8mm diameter carriage bolts. I wrap some plumbers tape around the pointy end which also stops the reel sliding off. 
I've got filament spools with all sorts of different diameter holes. Everything from 10mm (flexismart 200gm roll), all taulman spools are around 12mm, on up to ones big enough to put my arm through. So the standard 30mm diameter shaft is pretty much useless. 
The long thin metal bolts work a lot better.

On my delta I use an angled spoolholder which prevents filament tangling round the spool holder, and uses gravity to hold the spool against the machine.  Would be pretty easy to make one for the replicator clone machines.

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## raylo32

Exactly right.  It's up now.




> raylo32, it not there (yet?)  did you actually publish it ( that bit me once )

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## raylo32

I do indeed know that and that's how I have my KnP operating now with a 2mm glass.  But it isn't an ideal solution.  I had to really crank the adjusters tight to get there and the springs are pretty much fully compressed.  I don't think it would work with a 3mm piece and if so it would be very very tight... too tight... at least on mine.




> you know you can adjust up to at least 5mm z-height just by using the adjuster knobs ? 
> ie: you simply don't need shims unless you're adding something really thick. 
> 
> Amazing how many people do things like that when it's not actually necessary. 
> 
> As far filament holding the best I've found is this one:  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:430453
> I use it with 8mm diameter carriage bolts. I wrap some plumbers tape around the pointy end which also stops the reel sliding off. 
> I've got filament spools with all sorts of different diameter holes. Everything from 10mm (flexismart 200gm roll), all taulman spools are around 12mm, on up to ones big enough to put my arm through. So the standard 30mm diameter shaft is pretty much useless. 
> The long thin metal bolts work a lot better.
> ...

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## NCFatBoy

> I finished the Z=axis shim for adding a glass plate to the KnP, 3mm and 2mm sizes.
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2563761


So, PLA will not stick to the platform as is?

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## raylo32

I doubt it but I didn't try.  The build plate has kapton tape on it and I think that is supposed to be for ABS but not sure.  Pull up the user manual to see what they recommend.  It does discuss this.  I have only used painters tape smeared with glue stick and glass with hairspray for PLA so I just went with what works for me.  Others might be able to add to this....

http://knp3d.com/manual/UM/KNP3D-UM.pdf





> So, PLA will not stick to the platform as is?

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## curious aardvark

I got two sticky sheets with my knp. one had a paper type surface the other plastic. Currently I have the plastic sheet stuck to the bed and I use pva gluesticks on top of that.  Works really well. 

Haven't added anything to thick to the knp - but I do have an extra 4mm on the flashforge creator and ahd no problems adjusting bed down that much just with bolts.

You could also simply add the correct z-offset to your slicer. 
You might even be able to add it in in the firmware from the control panel. Have to admit I've never looked, but should be in there somewhere.

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## DaveB

Well that's rather odd.  The KNP is back down to $299.  Go figure...  Guess their sales dropped to zero when they bumped the price to $499.

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## raylo32

I still can't believe $299 for this thing.  The electronics and power supply all seem to be pretty well made.  Metal frame, dual extruder.  I guess at this price point the extruders aren't high end but they are plenty capable of printing the high temp stuff, like ABS and PETG.  I guess it just goes to show how in a world awash in cheap clones marketing and brand recognition still matter and can affect prices greatly.

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## NCFatBoy

> both flashprint (best free slicer for the knp - select creator pro) and simplify 3d (best commercial slicer) work on both windows and macs - so no problem with compatibility. 
> 
> As far as parts go - it's based on the original makerbot replicator dual. Probably the most copied 3d printer ever. 
> As such, compatible parts are easy to get. 
> 
> No clue on what mac os you need - but windows 7 on up is fine. 
> Did some work for a customer on a mac recently. 
> What a piece of junk ! 
> Had to update it to latest os - jeezusss, horrendous. How you people put up with it is beyond me :-)
> ...


Here's what Accugraphics told me with regards to it being a copy of a Makerbot. 

"We hit the streets ande sold some, but the owners did not want to spend much on advertising, and when you look only at specs, the KNP is pretty much on par with the Makerbot and clones, on paper. However, what isn't widely known is that we tested the other machines and found limitations. Even the Makerbot and FlashForge machines have limits, because they simply built and were fine with being able to print only certain layer sizes well. There is a mathematical clash between the resolution of the extruder motors and the pitch of the z axis rod, so that layers not of the right size give erratic results. We charged our engineers with solving this, and also had them improve the ooze from the nozzle when idle, a heat dissipation problem. They did well. So we didn't sell what we should, and wouldn't advertise, but instead relied on word of mouth. Well, our buyers love it, but they must not know many people! so we are blowing them out at the most competitive price we can, even with the loss. We are investigating new innovations to allow making as good or better quality, and maintain an acceptable price, but I can assure you it won't be in an expensive steel frame and painted cabinet! I have been here for about 20 years, and have seen many projects that just wouldn't pay, so we change tracks. We still stand good for the warranty, and parts if needed, but we are working on our next generation machine, which should be profitable. "

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## curious aardvark

Based on replicator dual is what i said. 
All the different clones have variations. 
The knp is one of the highest quality around. 

Nozzle ooze is no different than my flashforge creator.  Extryder setup is standard, no innovations I can see.  

But Like I said - great build quality :-)
And stupid value for money at the current price.

At the end of the day it's an unenclosed replicator pro for the price of a plywood ctc creator standard that will, most likely, not work.

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