# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum >  I need some serious help

## Nickschaos81

I recently purchased http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Singl...276966631.html
Since i got it , it has been nothing but problems.  Im really starting to belive that I got totally ripped off and this printer is crap. First things first, I am a totally newbie. I bought this for me and my kids to learn stuff on , I do rc airplanes and such and thought it would be nice to make some small parts. My wife and kids wanted to make simple things like nic nacs. Anyway.

So tonight after my 3rd night of staying up late working and tweaking this dumb thing , the hotend clogged. I disassembled it just like the guide says. (came with a guide) It was clogged very bad , im assuming i put the temp too high. ( was trying to print at 215 c ) I had to dissassemble the entire hotend and eventually had to drill. I checked hole diameter and choose a small enough bit. Now filament wont go thru it and im pretty sure its all sorts of fubar. I have no clue how to possibley save it. 

Im really frustrated with the whole thing. It was meant to have something cool to do with the kids , but all its done is cost me 250 bucks and 4 days of my life. I got 1 test print , a half failed green lantern ring and one leg for  spool holder thats too small, printed. I dont have the money to buy another printer. So if anybody could possibly help me get it running as cheap as possible , or just go ahead and tell me im screwed. Either way , i need some guidence. 

So I hope someone can help.... thanks for reading

 :Smile:

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## Alibert

You sure have jumped in at the deep end!

With some tender loving care, and a lot of reading up, you can certainly get your printer to print decent if not excellent.

As to your nozzle, there are a number of possibilities why it clogged. It could be poor filament, poor 'hygiene' (I mean that tiny particles have attached to the filament and get pulled in to the nozzle to collect and clog there), too high temperature/burning/carbonization (not likely with PLA at 215), or too much retraction. In the latter case your filament gets retracted so far that hot gooey filament reaches the cool part and gets jammed there. As to the latter, do not use more than 3.5 mm retraction or so. Less if you can get away with it.

If your nozzle has gone to 3D heaven, just but a couple new ones. They cost a few bucks and you will not be without one when this happens again.

You have a delta type printer, which is very, very sensitive to the sizing of the rods (the arms holding the hotend), the towers, the carriages (vertical going things) and the effector (the part that holds your hotend). A couple of 0.1 mm difference will make the effector not to run exactly parallel to the build plate. Instead of printing in a flat surface it will print in a bowl or dome shaped surface. In this case, you can not get a good first layer and either the center or the edges will not 'catch' on the build plate and your part will not print right. You want to have an error of max 0.1 mm or so over your entire buildpalte. The reason for this dependency is that the firmware needs to recalculate how far to set the carriages in order to get the nozzle at a specific x,y,z position and needs these size parameters to calculate it on the fly. The slicer only provides the x,y,z positions, the firmware has to do the printer-specific (hardware) part.

If the dimensions set in the firmware are off with respect to the actual dimensions (pretty likely with a cheap chinese and/or self-build) then you need to set them right. 

While waiting for your new nozzles to arrive, read up on what you need to do (just a few starting points, google for more):

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:745523
http://www.robertshady.com/content/b...er-seemecnccom
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:776346

You will also need to get up to speed with compiling and uploading your own firmware with arduino or others (just google it, there a are tons of guides).

Once you have achieved a good calibration print, you are off to go with printing (and have done a really steep crash course along the way....).

Success (yes, you CAN do it) !

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## Nickschaos81

I will definatly read up on what you have linked. The nozzle may very well be dead , but its the hotend itself that has croaked. After posting I decided to take it back apart for the 3rd time tonight, because the fliement was not even making it thru the throat.  In the process the set screw that holds the heating element stripped and the head broke off ( homemade set screw because they didnt send one with printer) guess it couldnt take the heat.

Anyway , im a little overwhelmed at how many different types there are out there. I need a hotend that will fit on this printer and cheap (as possible). Would you be able to direct me to one for my printer? 

Im also thinking about disassembling the printer and make sure that everything is square. your thoughts?

Lastly , when i went thru the guide that came with this thing I did the manual leveling and the last step wanted me to adjust the smoothing offset ( make center height match tower heights) anyway I could get no changes. When I do the autoleveling , it seemed to make no difference. the prints that i got worked , but in spots it seemed to smear the extruded filament.... so to close in those spots im assuming. Again your thoughts? 

Thank you for your post , im feeling a bit more confident. Still need a new hotend though

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## Alibert

> I will definatly read up on what you have linked. The nozzle may very well be dead , but its the hotend itself that has croaked. After posting I decided to take it back apart for the 3rd time tonight, because the fliement was not even making it thru the throat.  In the process the set screw that holds the heating element stripped and the head broke off ( homemade set screw because they didnt send one with printer) guess it couldnt take the heat.
> 
> Anyway , im a little overwhelmed at how many different types there are out there. I need a hotend that will fit on this printer and cheap (as possible). Would you be able to direct me to one for my printer?


There are a number of j-hed hotends on aliexpress. They differ in either the cooling fins part (I have encountered two different sizes) and the heating blocks (the square part at the bottom). the in-between piece is usually the same. An example is here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...746190433.html

Or you can just buy the loose parts you need. Look at the pictures carefully. If the cooling fins part is shiny, it usually conforms to the E3D V6 size, the non-shiny one is a little wider and higher (which may give problems with your fan). 




> Im also thinking about disassembling the printer and make sure that everything is square. your thoughts?


Not much there. I do have this link: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:746202  You will need a working printer to make them though. If you can machine, then make something similar.




> Lastly , when i went thru the guide that came with this thing I did the manual leveling and the last step wanted me to adjust the smoothing offset ( make center height match tower heights) anyway I could get no changes. When I do the autoleveling , it seemed to make no difference. the prints that i got worked , but in spots it seemed to smear the extruded filament.... so to close in those spots im assuming. Again your thoughts?


Yup, it means that the plane of printing is not perfectly flat but either concave or convex. This can be remidied by proper calibration and dimension updating in the firmware (best solution), or by autolevelling and calculated corrections (not my preference). However, you will need a probe for the autolevelling which was not included in your kit I guess?




> Thank you for your post , im feeling a bit more confident. Still need a new hotend though


Keep the faith and you will get there, and become a lot wiser as well  :Wink:

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## Nickschaos81

Mine actually uses a limit switch and the extruder as the probe, either way I have not noticed a difference when using auto level. 

The hot end I'm looking at is thisAll Metal long-distance J-head hotend JHEAD for 3D Printer bowden extruder RepRap MakerBot Kossel Deltahttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/Geeetech-All-Metal-long-distance-J-head-hotend-JHEAD-for-3D-Printer-bowden-extruder-RepRap-MakerBot/1849034687.html
(from AliExpress Android) you think this will work

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## LuckyImperial

I would steer clear of Geetech. Here's a great hotend for the price:


Signswise Assembled J-head Hotend 0.4mm Nozzle Printer Head for 1.75mm Filaments 3d Pinter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SWLMWDM..._Qb8hwb5S84Y8K

As for calibration, it's not as difficult as people say. It's just impossible to get PERFECT haha. Thermal fluctuations throughout the day effect my Z height, which I chase all the time with my delta. 

It's funny, I had the exact same hot end clogging issue when I got my delta printer. I fought and fought trying to clear it and then just broke down and bought that signwise hot end. So much better. 

The truth is that most hot ends these days are just E3D clones. They are typically 3 pieces that thread together and it's important to snug everything up on the first heat up since everything expands so much. Be careful though because the aluminum will strip or even break if you try to go too tight. The three piece hot ends are much easier to clean over a compression fitted jhead.

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## 3DPBuser

I have the E3Dlite6 and it works great. Low cost.

Print 20 mm cubes first, and get them correct before moving on.

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## ZorAxe

@*Nickschaos81* 

What area do you live in?

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## Nickschaos81

montana usa

okay guys here is where I am at. I have almost rebuilt this whole thing. I followed the guide that came with it and adjusted the carrage screws but when going to adjust the #delta_smooth_rod_offset it says to do it in increments of 0.x , It does not matter which way i adjust it i get no change of bringing my Zm to my Zz (currently Zm = 10.6  and Zz = 10.3)  I have adjusted that offset as much as 20 or 30 mm either direction and it still does not change. Just to clarify the situation , I dissconnect from repitier upload new sketch , restart printer , reconnect with repitier , home , m114 , g1 z20 . then i take z down till i get tension on paper , then back off .1mm . So yea i dont know what to do at this point on this thing. any reason it would not change? any ideas?

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## LuckyImperial

#delta_smooth_rod_offset controls the "dishing" of your hot end. Ideally, if it's set up right,  then you won't have any dishing and everything will stay nice and level as the hot end moves around. It  doesn't effect the nozzles height at X0Y0 (centered). It will will effect the Z height at X0Y50, X-30Y-50, and X30Y-50 which are three good test points for dishing.

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## Nickschaos81

my stupid instructions say , to use (g1 x0 y66 z10) (g1 x-57 y-33 z10) (x57 y-33 z10) use the paper tension method , and right down where i have contact , then adjust screws until i succesfully get them all to match. Which i have done. Then it says to check the Zm which it says use (g1 z10) again use paper tension method and it should match the other 3. if not to change the smooth rod offset. well nothing changes after i change it , the Zm never matches up. It stays at .20 off 

At this point , it seems like the nozzle will dig in in the middle. I can share my instructions , code , w/e to help me figure this out

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## Nickschaos81

well hold that thought , just found a huge chunk of instructions i missed in a previous link. almost same process as the instructions that came with mine except its delta radius to adjust not smooth rod, and its way easier to understand than the ones that came with mine. So im gonna give those a shot tomorrow and see if i have any luck.

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## Nickschaos81

So i followed other instructions, and  it still seems to go down in the center. I really think  i may be missing something , but both instructions want me to match my Zz height to the Zm height. Im stumped. no matter how much i alter the smooth rod or the print diameter i get no change

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## Roxy

I'm going through the same things right now with the Delta G2s printer I'm putting together.   I still have not printed anything.  Instead, I've been modifying the firmware.   

I've made several changes to make it easier to bring up Delta printers.   First, I've added a bed leveling command for 3 support point beds with a primary focus on Delta's.    It lets you get the bed very close to level in spite of the dish effect.  I've also made some changes so when traveling large horizontal distances the nozzle does not dip any more.   (During bed leveling and such I was having problems with the nozzle dipping and scrapping the bed.)

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## LuckyImperial

I can get you up and running but you have to do exactly what I say. Stop following your directions. 

Do these commands and tell me how far the nozzle is from the bed:

G28
G1 Z3
G1 Z0 F100

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## Nickschaos81

I will , but it will be later tonight

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## Alibert

Do you have the delta settings in Configuration.h for us (don't post the whole file please, just the relevant settings), and do they match with reasonbly well with the basic dimensions you can measure (rod arm length from pivot to pivot point, effector diameter pivot point from centre, carriage offset from tower glider to pivot point of rod)?

If you provide me with a set of 7 tower positions that I can plug into this structure:

DeltaParams p = { // probe values from original maxima worksheet
    0, 0, // calibError and status
    123.983, // delta radius
    250.590, 250.590, 250.590, // diagonal rod length
    -107.178, // xa
    62.015, // ya
    -41.687, // xc
    -9.49, -9.49, -9.49, // home offset a, b, c
    7,
    { // probed points on bed Z = 0 in column coordinates
    {227.34, 227.34, 227.21},
    {258.65, 170.95, 171.55},
    {233.28, 233.28, 127.56},
    {170.94, 258.64, 169.76},
    {127.96, 233.20, 232.52},
    {170.82, 170.82, 258.62},
    {233.19, 127.95, 233.80}
    },
    0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
};

Then I can run a numerical optimization for you. Probe the bed at center, x-tower, y-tower, z-tower, and opposite the three towers (in between the opposite two towers) and note the tower positions reported by the firmware. I only need the tower positions and the delta settings from your Configuration.h source.

I have debuggerd and got the source code from here actually working: https://github.com/DejayRezme/DeltaA...utoCalibration  and am using it to fine-tune my own delta printer.

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## Nickschaos81

I can get both of those tonight. First off my normal height from bed was 279.78 , I had changed it so that it was 290 so that I could have something to measure to the bed. I do this for my 3 tower positions so that i can adjust the end point screws to match up. Then Im "SUPPOSED" to be able to do the same thing for the center and the two should match. (this is the broken step for me) After that I am supposed to either adjust the smooth rod offset (if they dont match , till they do) or put my manual z back to its originally set height and all should be good. 

With all that , if i set it to your cords of g1 z0 then it should put tension on the paper .... ill do the test anyway just to be sure (<saying i put my manual z back to the correct value) 
I can make a video of it if that will help. I can also link a copy of the software stuff i got with this thing. would that help too ? Ill do just about anything lol

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## Nickschaos81

> I can get you up and running but you have to do exactly what I say. Stop following your directions. 
> 
> Do these commands and tell me how far the nozzle is from the bed:
> 
> G28
> G1 Z3
> G1 Z0 F100



With these commands and my manual z home set correctly im right where i should be for paper tension.... maybe just a tad high
could probably stand to lower it .1 or .2

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## LuckyImperial

> With these commands and my manual z home set correctly im right where i should be for paper tension.... maybe just a tad high
> could probably stand to lower it .1 or .2


Great. Now use G1 Z0 X0 Y-50 F300 and tell me what the height is there.

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## Roxy

OK...   I'm at the same point as you basically...  mostly because I keep going down rabbit holes.   I've been messing with the firmware and reprinting different pieces for my printer to make them better.   But really...  There shouldn't be any need to fully calibrate a Delta printer.  The Auto Bed Leveling should just fix those problems.

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## Nickschaos81

it doesnt go quiet as far, still got a gap maybe .5   ish

Would it be better if I set my distance higher then i actually have that way i can see the difference it takes to get tension on a sheet of paper at each point?

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## LuckyImperial

> it doesnt go quiet as far, still got a gap maybe .5   ish
> 
> Would it be better if I set my distance higher then i actually have that way i can see the difference it takes to get tension on a sheet of paper at each point?


No you can just eyeball it for now. 

If you have the same height issue (too high) at G1 Z0 X-30 Y-50 then you need to make your smooth rod offset smaller by 1mm. I believe with RC Marlin it's: M666 Rxxx. Don't forget to save to eeprom with an M500 and do a G28 before testing again.

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## Nickschaos81

do that from repiteir? yes?

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## LuckyImperial

Oh you use Repetier? Yes, but the commands are different. Do you have Repetier-Host? You can change the eeprom settings with it really easily. You'll still have  to G28 after you make the changes though.

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## Nickschaos81

yes i use repetir host 1.0.6 atm . i tried what you said and it didnt change at all. 

I did do an auto level , not sure it did anything either. 

Thought i had missed something in your instructions , went back to beginning , had to readjust my z as to not hit the bed, re did everything the same and still no changes.

thought i would try to do a test print to see if i just wasnt seeing something , and my extruder keeps binding inside the head. no matter what temp. im really thinking this thing is a piece of junk at this point. havent given up .... but starting to lose hope

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## Nickschaos81

okay so just some fyi

Got this thing off aliexpress. says it came with marlin software , loaded thru arduino... software it came with was prontoface and repitier host. prontoface didnt seem that great , and i had problems with it , so .... i have used repitier so i swapped.
I actually had this thing printing at one point, just printing badly. extruder has given me problems all along. only thing i got to print was a test cube , and one leg that was to small for a filement stand. lol and 3 failed rings.

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## Alibert

You will need to run the autocalibration before your print job and without resetting your printer as the calibration values will be erased after reset if I am correct.

It is always best ot have the printer running optimal without autocalibration, as the adjustments will propagate up into your object. Let us say that one corner of your object has a zposition of -0.5 mm and you autocalibratte for this. Then the top part of your object will also be 0.5mm lower if the firmware does not even out things in the first couple of mm of printing. 

The kinematics of a delta printer depend very strongly on the dimensions of the rods (0.1 mm difference unaccounted for in the firmware calculations makes a LOT of error in positioning), the relative positions of the three towers, and the degree in which the three towers are parallel (not skewed/leaning).

You can find a very good read up (including the effect of very small errors on the positioning) here: http://www.reprap.org/wiki/File:Rost...nematics_3.pdf

If you want to get a minimal error of say 0.1 mm over the full build plate, you will most likely need to make adjustments in the firmware as to individual rod lengths and tower positioning. A writeup of what you need to do and where you can change the Marlin firmware to accomodate differing rod lengths and tower positions are here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:745523 You will need to change the Marlin firmware source code, compile it and upload it to your printer.

The problem is that your printer needs to be reasonably printing to get your calibration object done in the first place. That is where the software optimization program I mentioned before comes in handy. If you can accurately measure the tower positions at those 7 points, the software will tell you which combination of rod length and tower positions gives you the most flat printing plane. With that as starting point, you can then print the calibration object and work onwards from there.

Again, if you provide me with the numbers I can run them through the software for you.

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## Nickschaos81

i will get that calibration tool printed as soon as i can. I still need to order a hotend im thinking. going to take mine back apart tonight to see if i can find why its jamming up. I can give you numbers , but dont know how to get them exactly. Im really new to this, and like you said earlier , i jumped into the deep end. 

i may order a new hotend tonight if i can not get mine working correctly. it starts extruding fine , then the filament folds on itself inside the head and jams up. i was looking at some actuall e3d head last night and it seems like the plastic tube in mine goes deeper then it should in the throat. ill have to check but i think it might even have been drilled backwards too. meaning , in the actuall e3d version the filament seems very well supported all the way to the nozzle. on mine there seems to be a nice sized gap from where the filament feed tube connects to the head and where it actually enters the throat.  which if thats the case then that is where im getting the bind up.  any way ill check that tonight and let you know , maybe take some pics. 

I feel if i could print somthing , anything that would drastically help wtih calibration. like the tool

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## LuckyImperial

Okay first of all, I don't agree with all of these people telling you "autcalibrate autocalibrate autolevel auto auto auto". A good calibration can be and should be done manually. I know because I did both, and autocal never got my settings close to where they should be. It's just ballpark. Oh and guess what my first issue was after I got it all calibrated? A clogged hot end, which jammed because I left it on without feeding filament for too long. You can't let them sit idle when they're hot. Also my Extruder steps/mm were way off and it was trying to overextrude which caused all sorts of headaches. Yeah...you jumped into the deep end for sure. After the 50th hour of staring at my printer my gf was pretty pissed. 

Alright, something is fishy. You cite "#delta_smooth_rod_offset" is what you're changing, but that's a Marlin eeprom setting. In the latest version of Repetier firmware (0.92.5)  the Coniguration.h folder the setting is called #define ROD_RADIUS. I think something is going on with your eeprom changes. They're not sticking. My first initial guess is because of outdated firmware and Repetier-Host. Repetier-Host is at version 1.5.6 now. 

What I would like you to do next is verify what version of firmware you are using and let me know. There's a couple of ways to check. If you have an LCD, it' usually shows your firmware type/version when you first power on your printer. You can also connect via Repetier-Host and check using "Printer Information".

How do you normally make changes in EEPROM? It sounds like you can successfully change the Z-Height, since you can get your printer to the right height at Z0 X0 Y0, so what did you change to get to that point and where?

If you're on old versions of Repetier my next advice is going to be....to update them. I can walk you through the Repetier Firmware Configuration here: http://www.repetier.com/firmware/v092/

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## LuckyImperial

People talk about Delta calibration like it's some sort of impossible VooDoo. It's not. There's only two damn settings that really effect your major calibration. 

Diagonal Rod Length and Centered Rod Offset. Those two settings may be called something different in different firmware, but they're always there and they always do the same thing. Diagnonal Rod Length will affect the dimensional accuracy of your printer and Centered Rod Offset (smooth rod offest, rod radius, horizontal rod offset, etc) affects the "dishing" of your printer. If Diagonal Rod Length is wrong then your printer will print things either too big or too small. If Centered Rod Offset is wrong then things don't get printed on a level plane.

The next thing in calibration is leveling. Which is dead simple. You level the effector plane with repsect to the bed by adjusting endstop offsets, or trimming them using screws that are sometimes mounted to the carriages (for some printers). 3 points define a plane. Your job is to make it match the bed. Takes 10 minutes if you have trimming screws. 

I still think there's something fishy going on with your Repetier-Host and firmware. I can help you get them both to latest, which is ultimately the best solution.

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## Nickschaos81

I'm at work right now, but here is what I'm going to do. When I get home I'll get you software versions... I'm going to make a short video showing issues, and set a file up so you or anybody can download exactly what I got with my printer. I'm feeling that there is an issue with the software as well. My wife is getting frustrated with my printer that she has now named veronica. The kids got projects lining up. I personally could care less about auto level. I'm going to look at my hotel tonight and probably order the sign wise one that was reccomended. Maybe I could share Skype info if needed , if you have time sometime.

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## Alibert

I agree with LuckyImperial that manual calibration is the best thing to do. I don't have a z-probe on any of my printers (2 replicator dual clones, a prusa i3 clone, and a kossel max clone, yeah I love the chinese...)

However, a few 0.1 mm difference in diagonal rod lengths for the 3 towers will induce a lot more z-error when you move away from the center. Simple mathematics can prove that. Were your rods ready made or did you glue them yourself?

I adjusted the individual rod lengths and reduced a z-error of 0.65 mm at the point opposite/farthest away from the y-tower (the difficult spot on my machine) to approx 0.1mm. There was approx 0.3mm difference in rod lengths......

Also, it would help all of us if you could post your firmware somewhere for us to go through. That allows to get answers to a lot of questions we have much faster.

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## Alibert

And as to the jamming, I experienced a similar frustrating problem. I found out that S3D was proposing a way too large retraction (8 mm!!!). This caused the hot platic to be pulled up into the cool part of the extruder and solidify there. As that part was wider than the throat of the hot part (edges), it jammed totally.  I reduced the retraction to 3mm and the problem disapeared. Now I am steadily increasing the retraction bit by bit to reduce the stringing while not running in to the jamming problem again.....

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## Roxy

> Okay first of all, I don't agree with all of these people telling you "autcalibrate autocalibrate autolevel auto auto auto". A good calibration can be and should be done manually. I know because I did both, and autocal never got my settings close to where they should be. It's just ballpark.


Agreed!   But it sure seems to me like the Auto Calibration and Auto Bed Leveling should take care of everything for the user.  Alas...  We are not there yet.

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## LuckyImperial

> And as to the jamming, I experienced a similar frustrating problem. I found out that S3D was proposing a way too large retraction (8 mm!!!). This caused the hot platic to be pulled up into the cool part of the extruder and solidify there. As that part was wider than the throat of the hot part (edges), it jammed totally.  I reduced the retraction to 3mm and the problem disapeared. Now I am steadily increasing the retraction bit by bit to reduce the stringing while not running in to the jamming problem again.....


^^^ True and great advice ^^^

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## Nickschaos81

Guys im sorry , had a long day and was way to exhausted to go thru and make a short video on everything. I will tomorrow for sure , but in the mean time here is a link to the software that came with my printer https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hj2ixgh9g...ldXL1ciZa?dl=0. This software is as is ripped right off the thumb drive they sent it on. If you go in the user manual i was on page 23/39 doing the manual leveling as per their instructions just could not get any change like they describe on page 25/39 when adjusting the smooth rod offset. So in the marlin sketch in this file , the only thing that has been changed on my end is the manual z home in my printer it is set to 278.60, the copy I uploaded is factory default from them.  I did order the signswise hotend and some extra nozzles, thanks for that suggestion. Should be here on tuesday. Ill make a video tomorrow showing you guys what im doing , and maybe you can spot something that im screwing up. Again I really really appreciate all the help. My first real print will be dedicated to you guys  :Smile:

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## LuckyImperial

Now that I have your config file I'll make you a configuration of the latest Repetier firmware that you can upload. It'll be way easier. 

Oh and by the way, the Marlin Repetier mismatch was likely the your whole problem. We'll get you all on the latest Repetier versions which are way better.

Some relevant questions: What version of Windows do you have? Also, its an Arduino board with ramps?

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## Alibert

Thanks for putting up the sources and manuals. That makes it a lot easier for us to help you.

As I am in a different timezone, I can do some calculations for you this evening if you can get me those tower coordinates at  7 points. Do you see the frrmware dumping tower positions when it does the auto-levelling? If not I can adjust the firmware to do so for you. With a capture of the dumped output I can do the calculations.

As to your auto-levelling not working, line 1307 (and optionally 1311)  in Marlin_main.cpp shows that the auto-levelling data is erased after a homing command (G28).....


Maybe this is why it does nothing? You must re-level after a homing. It could be that the startup code in Repetier does a homing before printing and thus resets the adjustments to zero? It may be obvious but as I said I don't do autolevelling myself.

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## Nickschaos81

Win 7 64bit and the board says it's an mks mini , here is a pic https://www.dropbox.com/s/15atujsp40...70948.jpg?dl=0

Also, if you tell me how to get tower posit ions I will

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## LuckyImperial

Nick,

They have you compiling a Marlin version with Arduino IDE version 1.6, which is a terrible idea. It's known to be plagued with issues. Good news is I've got a 0.92.5 (latest) Repetier-Firmware for you to upload and try.

Here's what you need:

Your firmware (I made this using Repetier Firmware Configurator):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1...GVwVE9LT2ZTcXM

The latest version of Repetier-Host: 
http://download.repetier.com/files/h...Host_1_5_6.exe

And Arduino IDE 1.0.5 (even though Repetier-Firmware can be compiled with IDE 1.6):
http://arduino.googlecode.com/files/...r2-windows.exe

Before you upload the firmware do this in the Arduino IDE:
File -> Examples -> EEPROM -> eeprom clear 
Then upload that sketch. It's smart to clear out your eeprom before you upload any new firmware.

Please be careful when you do your first movements with the new Firmware. Hover over that power switch. I'd be really surprised if I got EVERY setting right the first time, but hey, maybe. Also...you can now use Repetier-Host to do everything. It has a manual control tab that you can send G-Code and movements through. Unlike Pronterface though, commands are qued until they complete. So if you send gcode to bring your hot end up to temp, then other commands wont go through until the hot end reaches the set temperature.

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## Nickschaos81

thank you , i got them downloaded and will start trying to test it maybe tomorrow night. Just kinda taking a break this weekend. plus im waiting on new hotend which should be here on tuesday. What kind of errors might i be watching for ?

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## LuckyImperial

The obvious thing is motors moving in inverse directions. You might also have unresponsive endstops if I didn't get their settings right. 

 If you can successfully do a G28 then you're off to a really good start.

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## Nickschaos81

so i have new hot end (not installed yet) I got all software installed , repietier seems alot nicer btw. When i hit home (g28) It trys to dig to china. I can hit endstops and it seems to be firne on those.... whay to do to fix motor direction?

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## Nickschaos81

nvm I found that , g28 seems to work!!!!! ..............now what? Should i test everything else ? proper directions when moving head.... extruder heating.... fan coming on ? or is there something else? 
Im getting kinda excited

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## LuckyImperial

> nvm I found that , g28 seems to work!!!!! ..............now what? Should i test everything else ? proper directions when moving head.... extruder heating.... fan coming on ? or is there something else? 
> Im getting kinda excited


haha dig to china. That's good. 

Did you get the latest version Repetier-Host installed? If so, you can connect using that and make EEPROM changes using Config -> Firmware EEPROM Configuration. This is where a lot of your calibration settings are.

The next steps would be dialing in your calibration settings. Z-Height, Diagonal Rod Length and Horizontal Radius. All of these I plugged in from the Marlin configuration.h file you linked in your dropbox, but that doesn't mean their perfect. Z-Height first, which should be easy. Make sure at Z0 X0 Y0 passes the paper height test. Increase or decrease Zheight in EEPROM to adjust. Always do a G28 after eeprom changes. Sorry, I'm in class right now, but it sounds like you're off to a great start.

After calibration you should start looking into the extruder motor. Bring you hot end up to temperature and try to extrude some filament. Hopefully it extrudes in the right direction haha.

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## Nickschaos81

okay so i am back to where i started , everything seems fine up to the horizontal rod radius .... changing the value , even to the extreme , changes nothing.

First g28 , then i raised my z height from 338.9 to 350
Then I used these cords.(g1 x0 y66 , g1 x057 y-33 , g1 x57 y-33 )
I took a measurement from print head to bed with paper height readings were as follows
z 1.10  x 1.00 y .30 , I moved my set screw on each to dial them all in to 1.00
now i measured middled at 11.30 no matter how I adjust the Horizontal rod radius , I can not get it to come any closer to 1.00 

I feel like im doing something wrong.

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## LuckyImperial

> okay so i am back to where i started , everything seems fine up to the horizontal rod radius .... changing the value , even to the extreme , changes nothing.
> 
> First g28 , then i raised my z height from 338.9 to 350
> Then I used these cords.(g1 x0 y66 , g1 x057 y-33 , g1 x57 y-33 )
> I took a measurement from print head to bed with paper height readings were as follows
> z 1.10  x 1.00 y .30 , I moved my set screw on each to dial them all in to 1.00
> now i measured middled at 11.30 no matter how I adjust the Horizontal rod radius , I can not get it to come any closer to 1.00 
> 
> I feel like im doing something wrong.



I don't think I'm following you. 

What is the height of your print head to bed at the 4 following locations (in mm):

Z0 X0 Y0
Z0 X0 Y66 
Z0 X57 Y-33 
Z0 X57 -Y33

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## Nickschaos81

okay so I did your test. I made z0x0y0 perfect , then measured the others i get a pretty even 3/8 which is 9.52 mm thats just close thou, i dont have a means to really measureunder the head. 
so yea lol

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## Nickschaos81

i think i might be able to get an accurate exact reading , do you need it exact

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## Nickschaos81

okay so i adjusted the horizontal offset and noticed that if i adjust the offset then move the the head to the defined area you gave me, it moves beyond the bed. so were y66 would stop at the edge , if i increase the horizontal offset it moves beyond the the edge. maybe that will help in figuring out what im doing wrong

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## LuckyImperial

Now that you have the X0 Y0 Z0 nozzle height correct you just gotta get Diagonal Rod Length and Horizontal Rod Offset dialed in.

You're using Repetier-Host to make your eeprom changes right? Make changes 1-3mm at a time. Gross changes are good to show that you're making a difference (which it sounds like you are) but may damage your printer if you start going too far.

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## Nickschaos81

Thanks , I'll mess with this tonight, then on to the extruder motor and calibrating it.

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## Nickschaos81

okay now im getting excited , finally have this step working. one minor problem. z and y seem to be about the same as middle , but the x tower , the head moves up. how do i adjust just one tower?

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## LuckyImperial

That's an endstop that's off. You need to either physically move your x endstop down or use a trimming screw if you have it. 

I really hope you have trimming screws haha. Makes it a lot easier.

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## Nickschaos81

i do have screws , but i did notice in the eeprom settings that i can set endstop offset, that work the same way ? and can you point me in the right direction for extruder calibration? i feel like im getting close to printing something

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## Nickschaos81

i got it , its either dead on or off by .1   im pretty sure thats in tolerence so happy right now. going to bed lol. yea next on to the extruder motor calibration , and swapping the hotend..... THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, I CAN SEE IT!
so how do i calibrate that there extruder motor again , and side note , what should i do about retract, saw you guys talking about that in previous post

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## LuckyImperial

Yeah that should work the same same way. Give it a shot. 

Extruder calibration has two factors. 
1. Steps/mm. Usually called Esteps/mm.  You can extrude 100mm and then measure it to see if it's 100mm. Increase Esteps if you're short or decrease if it's long. My sweet spot is usually a little less, like 80mm, but it varies. This is non melted plastic, before it goes into the hot end. 

2. Retraction. Usually 2-5mm. Don't do too fast or accelerate too fast or you will strip the filament. Retraction settings can also be found in Slic3r or whatever slicing program you use.

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## Nickschaos81

im not seeing esteps in the epprom setting on repiteir host , am i looking in the wrong spot or is it steps per mm ? for the extruder

and for the retraction , basically start small ... right ?

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## LuckyImperial

> im not seeing esteps in the epprom setting on repiteir host , am i looking in the wrong spot or is it steps per mm ? for the extruder
> 
> and for the retraction , basically start small ... right ?



It should be like "Extr1. steps per mm"

Retraction is pretty much always necessary. 2mm is a legitimate starting place. It can be adjusted in 1mm increments. Anything more than 7mm may cause the plastic melt zone to retract into the cooling zone and cause a jam. It kind of depends on the length of your bowden tube though.

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## Nickschaos81

First let me say thank you !!! 
Ok now let me get you up to speed.
I got calibrations done tonight and really wanted to print somehting but didnt have time to do calibration tool , so i printed calibration blocks instead. just as a test. 
tell me what you think i should do to get these blocks looking better... 

Btw , after i figured out the calibration and leveling process.... I messed everything up by taking bed apart and installed the new hotend so none of my old setting would be right, took me about 30 minutes to recalibrate and level!!! pretty excited. 

But yea , any pointers that maybe i should change or do before trying to print the calibration tool you recomended ???


https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ir3q3vyph...a1gQv8j8e0KX9a      < Photos of my calibration blocks

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## Alibert

I presume it is PLA?

You are printing the top part too hot. The plastic layed down does not have enough time to solidify as the nozzle is returning too fast to the same location. The new 'track' is thus dragging the layer below with it. You can probably adjust this in your slicer (minimum layer time). An extra cooling fan will also help with PLA. Or bringing down the printing temperature. The latter however will reduce the maximum printing speed you can get.

Also your hotend may be jittering/oscillating due to the similar rapid motion changes at the top part. If the effector rods are nice and tight, then slowing down may do the trick, or adjust the max acceleration settings in the firmware.

Overall it seems that your extrusion rate is a bit too high as well. That can also be adjusted in the slicer.

What filament, nozzle temperature and printing speed settings (width, height and mm/s printing speed) are you using?

----------


## Roxy

Agreed it is a little bit too hot.   And also agreed that there is a slight over extrusion.   But I can tell you that calibration block is very difficult to get right at the top.

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## Nickschaos81

I'm printing pla, with 1.75 mm filamet, 4mm nozzle... those blocks where printed at 205 c. 
When I was doing the extruder calibration it was literally like .2 mm off , I click 100 mm I got 100 mm. Should I decrees this?

As far as the speeds, was not sure where to find those things so I took pics of any settings I had that I thought might be what your talking about or relevant to this new issue. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ut0jenfpx...JnTQK_n-a?dl=0
If there is a setting you need to see let me know , I can get a pic or something of it asap. Wanting to try printing again tonight...

And on a side n9te, when done printing , should I back filamet out of nozzle or just leave it?

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## LuckyImperial

> First let me say thank you !!! 
> Ok now let me get you up to speed.
> I got calibrations done tonight and really wanted to print somehting but didnt have time to do calibration tool , so i printed calibration blocks instead. just as a test. 
> tell me what you think i should do to get these blocks looking better... 
> 
> Btw , after i figured out the calibration and leveling process.... I messed everything up by taking bed apart and installed the new hotend so none of my old setting would be right, took me about 30 minutes to recalibrate and level!!! pretty excited. 
> 
> But yea , any pointers that maybe i should change or do before trying to print the calibration tool you recomended ???
> 
> ...



A print! Yeaaaaah! 

Well, I'm glad you're up and running. The deep end isn't so bad when you have floaties. If you have any more questions specific to Delta's or calibration don't hesitate to send me a PM or whatever. However, I'm a lot less helpful when it comes to print quality. I'm still trying to get my Kossel to spit out high quality prints...and I'm really close.

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## Nickschaos81

Fair enough, I think thsee two guys will help on the quality... again, thank you to all

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## Alibert

The settings seem pretty OK to me. You can increase the filament diameter a little (1.78 for example) to extrude a little less. 

The problem with the top layers is that the slicer does slow down the speed when a layers takes less than 60 seconds, but never slower than 10 mm/s. Try printing at 190 degrees. You may need to slow down the infill speed from 60 mm/s to something like 40-50 mm/s at that temp though.

Do you have a cooling fan that blows on the printed object (not the one that cools the heatbreak)? With PLA you will most likely need it.

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## Nickschaos81

Okay so basically adjust my filament size a hair. Should I slow down extruder speed? Or print speed? Would a free standing fan aimed at print work?

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## Alibert

Slow down the infill speeds (the 60 mm/s values) and lower the nozzle temperature to 190. The other speeds you can just keep.

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## Nickschaos81

Will do! Try and get that calibration tool printed tonight. Thanks again!

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## Nickschaos81

hey guys , im back. So I have a new issue. Started priniting finally but now i seem to have an issue , where the print head actually hits the print. It will start out fine and actually get many layers done , but it seems the taller the print the harder it starts to drag across the print. Do i just need to try and fine tune my manual leveling , or is it something else. ill post a link to some pics

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## Nickschaos81

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pw3gbaaefx...32632.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/13c9k80jfz...32625.jpg?dl=0 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s51vkv855...32616.jpg?dl=0

so this problem (in my mind seems to get worse the higher i print. on this creeper head it really started hitting hard , and i didnt want to break anything so i stopped. Any suggestions?

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## Alibert

The first thing that comes to my mind is that the e-steps are a bit off. Those translate how many steps the stepper must take to move an axis by 1mm. The actual value depends on the stepper (most likely 200 steps per revolution), the diameter of the geared pully driving the belt (how many mm the belt moves for 1 full revolution).  Are those pulley's factory made or printed? And what for e-step values do you have in the firmware settings for the x, y and z axes (your three towers)?

Alternatively, it can be that you are over-extruding and that the plastic builds up and up and can't get away sideways, especially if you print with 100% infill?

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## Nickschaos81

the pulleys that are on the motors are aluminum.
if i check eeprom settings in repetier host it says steps per mm is 80. Im not seeing anything that would be for 3 towers. 
Can i link you my firmware and get some guidance on what im looking for ?
using repetier 0.92.5

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## Roxy

I don't know if there is a mechanical problem.  But it does look like the top is getting too hot.   Instead of printing 1 of those cube things,  try printing 4 or 5 at the same time.   That will keep the nozzle from being close to the same piece the whole time.  It is very possible that will print OK.  If that does happen, the problem you need to fight is not over heating the piece.    A couple things you could do would be turn the temperature down a little, but then also tell the Slicer to spend more time per layer.  Or maybe add a fan to cool the part.

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## Nickschaos81

I have a fan, and that happened with two pieces on the print bed. When it first starts printing and and move off one edge to another , every now and then you can hear the nozzle nick it. Or moving across the honeycomb it makes a light washboard sound and get worse the taller the print.

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## Alibert

Just to make sure the E-steps are OK:

Send the hotend to the middel of your buildplate:  G1 X0 Y0 Z0

Then mark the belts. Then move the hotend up by 100.0 mm :  G1 X0 Y0 Z100

Measure how far the marks of the belts have traveled with this move with respect to their original position. Digital calipers will help a lot   :Wink: 

If the E-steps are correct, all three belts will have moved exactly 100.0 mm

If not, then correct the E-steps. If exactly 100.0 mm, then it is not the E-steps.

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## Nickschaos81

I thought Esteps was extruder steps.... but yea I'll do that as soon as I get home. I have a digital caliper btw

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## LuckyImperial

> I thought Esteps was extruder steps.... but yea I'll do that as soon as I get home. I have a digital caliper btw


Esteps are Extruder steps. You are correct. 

Alibert meant motor resolution. 

In Repetier, these are:
XAXIS_STEPS_PER_MM, YAXIS_STEPS_PER_MM, & ZAXIS_STEPS_PER_MM.  Yours are set to 80 steps/mm. Alibert is right though. You might need to slightly increase these.His test is correct. It might also be happening because of loose belts. Make sure your belts are fairly tight. They don't need to strum like a guitar string, but they do need to be just passed taught.

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## Nickschaos81

OK confirmed! From z0 to z100, I only measure it moving 80mm. So to fix this I afjust.....?

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## LuckyImperial

> OK confirmed! From z0 to z100, I only measure it moving 80mm. So to fix this I afjust.....?


There's a fancy equation you can do to figure out what you need to set your Steps Per MM to, but you can always just increase it from 80 until you get what you need.

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## Nickschaos81

I think I got it  :Big Grin:  I'll post pics of the print I'm running at this very moment. I have learned sooooo much from you guys, so grateful

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## Nickschaos81

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d89247ymvg...31746.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9330fvc76l...25158.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qkh0149m6...25124.jpg?dl=0

I think my prints are improving. You guys agree? lol especially from where I started. So it seems after I adjusted my steps other calibrations were thrown off lol , so the little 2 piece sub there has some bowl shape too it , I checked after print and yes those calibrations have been thrown off. No big deal. 
So here is my game plan and a couple more quick questions.
Im going to double check steps per mm are as close to dead on as possible
going to do a manual bed leveling and then adjust my diagnol and horizontal settings again to elimenate dishing, or bowling w/e its called
then double check my total z height 
then triple check all points to make sure we are homed in, including e Steps which brings me to my first question
1. Increase or decrease esteps to reduce how much extrudes ( I think decrease but i could have sworn i read increase some where)
2. how do i check to make sure steps per mm is correct on x and y ( mark bed , move head and measure? and if so what do i adjust to fix it if its off?)
3. How do i post pics in this forum so i dont have to use dropbox anymore?
4. anything else you guys can think of ?
5. autolevel? should i use it ? lol  and if so , how? 

Again , thanks you guys your awesome! wouldnt be were i am with out yalls

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## Alibert

OK, you are making good progress here. Sorry about my delayed response but I am in a different timezone and usually (!) asleep when it is evening over there....

Repetier does use different naming conventions, thanks LuckyImperial for the corrections.

I think you have already figured it out by yourself, but for the other readers this explanation:

When you told the firmware to go from X0 Y0 Z0 to X0 Y0 Z100 with (according to the firmware settings) 80 steps per mm, the firmware moved all three towers by 80*100=800 steps. As the belts in reality only moved 80mm, the actual steps_per_mm = 800/80=100 steps per mm. If you change that in the firmware you should be allright (apart from the manual re-calibration).

As to your question:

1) You can calibrate the extruder too. Just take the Bowden tube off the extruder. Put a mark on the filament referencing to a fixed point, like where it comes out of the fitting. Extrude 100mm (G91 <enter> G1 E100 F300 <enter> G90 <enter>). Measure the extruded length with a digital caliper. Calculate the correct steps_per_mm = (old_steps_mm * 100mm) / measured_mm_extruded.

That will give you your actual steps_per_mm for the extruder. However, the amount the *slicer* will request for a move is calculated from the *diameter of the filament* (a setting in your *slicer*). It needs to lay down a certain volume of plastic for a track, and calculates the volume from the filament diameter, and gives the mm of extrusion (linear) to the firmware. If you filament is slightly off, this volume calculation has an error. Measuring your filament with (again) the digital calipers, you can enter the correct value in your slicer.

Depending on your nozzle, the type of polymer and the temperature you print with, the actual extruded volume differ from the calculated ideal. Most slicers will have a fudging parameter. In Simplyfy3D it is called 'Extrusion multiplier' and is found on the Extruder tab settings. For PLA a value of 0.95 is usually OK, for ABS I use 1.00 as multiplier.

2) For a delta this is different than for a cartesian bot. Your X-Y moves are recalculated to tower heights, and are non-linear as such. Basically the tip of your hotend is recalculated to the intersection of three spheres defined by the tower height as center and the diagonal rod length as radius. To get dimensional correct X-Y moves, you may need to have different rod lengths for all three arms as explained here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:745523

Print out that object and the pdf chart as explained, and measure. The adaptations as explained in the article are for Marlin firmware, but I have seen that Repertier has those corrections already implemented in the firmware. I am in the process of migrating from Marlin to Repertier myself, so will soon be able to help you further there.

3) just use this button:
picture.jpg

You will need to save your images as .png type first.

4) Loads and loads, where to begin?   :Wink: 

5) If you have a heatbed that buckles when heating due to poor heat distribution/too thin material, then autocalibration might be useful. The consequence is that you propagate first layer errors upwards through your print and I would not use it myself. Better to have a good, absolutely flat (heat-)bed (did anyone say glass?) and do the hard labour of manual calibration. My experience is that when once properly calibrated, you don't need to mess with it again for a long, long, loooong time. All time spent with good manual calibration pays itself off in hundreds (thousands?) of good prints.

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## Nickschaos81

Haha, thanks. Wasn't saving them as .png

I am thinking of changing the effector plate for a solid pieace. The one I got is for auto level and the center (which holds the extruder) pivots so that it can trigger the autolevel switch like an endstop. A good idea I think but poorly implemented with 3d printed parts. So your answer on autolevel was what I was hoping to hear. If I got rid of the pivot and went solid effector , I think it would give better accuracy because there would be no unnecessary play in the head.

I'm going to get those calibrations redone tonight , man I'm so excited. No longer is there a light at the end of the tunnel, but now I can actually see outside

----------


## Nickschaos81

NEW PROBLEMS!!!! so not excited 

I went thru and did all calibrations again , everything seemed fine except my diagnol rod length (for dishing) went from like 240 to 640 .... that normal? Horizontal length had to be increased too , its now at 180 from 140 ish (dont remember exactly)
I also did the extruder calibration as well. Esteps went from 147  to 165. My Max Z went from 350 to 302 , then down to 268 and seems to steadily be decreasing.... but this could be because the heating and cooling of the extruder , or the stupid auto level mickey mouse rig of an effector i have.

The real problem that i seem to have is it now tries to print everything in micro. When I load the calibration tool to print , I slice it ... even in the preview window it still shows that its going to print out close to my max bed size , but once printing starts it prints it 1/4 what it is supposed to. I loaded the calibration cubes and it tried to print those so small they would have fit on a nickel, with a 4 wrap skirt. So either I inadvertly built a shrink machine or I screwed up somewhere.

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## Nickschaos81

I sat down , and started to just go thru the eeprom list and find out what each thing was.... then i sat down and started to measure everything and comparing it to what was in the eeprom (that was based on manufactor instructions) .... had some descrepencys , and now it seems that I had things off and didnt understand what numbers where super important , and just important. Im printing some more calibration cubes right now. If they come out like i expect them too , and the calibration circle tool does good as well. Im going to then post a final post explaining what i have learned and hopefully it will help some else out there as well. Stupid math , should paid attention in school instead of checking out chicks.

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## Nickschaos81

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0396u2ikl...02201.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk4pot8zpl...02209.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/850oy15fpu...02220.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6g216raat...02229.jpg?dl=0 

Belive it or not , that first cube cal. was printed using almost the same slicer settings , and no scaling on either , guess thats the difference in proper calibration. woot , go me (and you guys for helping)
I just tried doing a dry run on the delta calb. tool and at the extreme edges between towers (not at the towers) the head is lifted probably 6 mm ish off build plate.... I have now adjusted the horizantal rod and diagnol rod to get the head to be the same height at towers as its at at the middle at z0 , what do i do when it lifts between towers (while making a circle) I can post a video if you guys need me to .


Edited : Im going to bed , talk tomorrw

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## Alibert

When using a limited number of points for calibrating radius and rod length, I have found that there are multiple solutions that will fit those limited points. I have done this using a few combinatorial optimization techniques (gradient descent, downhill simplex and genetic algorithms). This explains why you can find 'crazy' combinations that should work, but do not in the spots you didn't include in the optimization. The printed size of the object directly relates to the diagonal rod length as well. If it is not the actual (real) rod length, the size of the printed object will scale to larger/smaller.

I have found that the best approach is to follow these steps in this specific order:

1) measure the diagonal rods carefully (I have a 12" digital caliper for this purpose) and use this value in the firmware
2) adjust the endstops so that all three towers just touch (as close as possible to the tower) at a given max z height 
3) adjust radius value only to get a as flat as possible z-plane (using opposite points of the towers as well. You should be within 0.3mm over all of the build plate at this point. If not, redo steps 1-2.
4) print out the calibration object according to the link I gave above. Measure the correct angles between x,y and z tower and enter these in the firmware.
5) redo step 3, you only need very small adaptions
6) print out the calibration object again, but now only compensate the diagonal rod sizes for each tower using the calculation explained in the link. Leve the tower angles from step 4.

With Marlin firmware and following the above I am within 0.1 mm z-height error over nearly my whole build plate (280 mm diameter) and  less than 0.05mm in X and Y direction. I am in the process of converting to Repertier 0.92 and will be able to tell you where to plug in the adjustments soon.

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## Nickschaos81

Yea, I'm confused now albeit .... the only adjustments I have made have been too diagnol rod length, horizontal rod length, max z height, and steps per mm. Is there a video tutorial showing me what your talking about doing? I feel like there is a bunch of steps I'm missing. Because if I preform the exact same process of calibrations between the towers wouldn't I just be splitting the difference, because adjusting the diagnol rod length to get the tower points closer then adjusting it between the towers, wouldn't that just move the tower points into the bed. Yea I'm confused , defiantly lol you win...

----------


## Roxy

Nickschaos81, I'm going through the same stuff right now with my new G2s Geeetech printer.    I'm bringing up the Marlin RC2 (Release Candidate 2) on it.    There are some extra adjustments available in the newer Marlin's.   You get to trim the endstop adjustments for each tower and you get to trim the diagonal rod length for each tower.    

I'm pretty level right now, but I need to figure out how to use the diagonal rod trim to fix one place I have the nozzle lifting up too much.

----------


## Alibert

OK, I will slow down a bit.

The first point you must understsand that the actual XY size of the object you print is related to the actual diagonal rod length and what the firmware thinks it is. If your firmware setting is off, the the object you print will be larger or smaller than waht the slicer intended. If you want a cube with sides of 20.0 mm exactly, this will only happen if the firmware setting is exactly equal to what the diagonal rods are in real life. If the firmware setting is larger or smaller, the XY size of the cube will be smaller/larger (or the other way around, I will have tolook that one up) than the intended 20.0 mm.

Therefore measure the diagonal rods  accurately with calipers and stay with that value in firmware. I use the average of all three for the initial setting until I can print the calibration object.

When you move the hotend over the build plate at, let's say Z=0 height, you will observe the hotend seemingly moving up or down when going from the edge to the center. This is the dome (center higher than edge) or bowl (center lower than edge).

As you want to keep your diagonal rods constant and as close to reality as possible to maintain XY dimensional accuray of your printed objects, you can only change the dome/bowl shape with respect to the center by changing the diagonal radius setting. Do not tinker with the diagonal rod settings to adjsst dome/bowl effects.

If your hotend is OK at one tower but digs into the build plate when approaching another tower, then it means your dome/bowl is not horizontal but slanted. You can only get it horizontal but adjusting the endstops of the towers. This you do by moving the hotend as close as possible to a tower, try to guage how much higher or lower you need to adjust the endstop, adjust the endstop, then re-home and move the hotend back to the foot of the tower again to see if you are right. As the z-height will also be influenced by the errors in the endstops of the other towers, you will need to adjust the endstops in turn for all three towers, and again, and again until no more adjustments are needed. I usually do all three towers at least threen times in a row to get it right.

The endstop adjustment procedure distorts all other settings, so that is why you need to do it first, and do it well (and never touch the endstops again as long as your printer lives...)

To recapitulate:

Get the endstops right first, take your time and do it well as possible.

Measure the diagonal rods and stick to that value.

Get the z-plan flat by adjusting the diagonal radius only, do not touch endstops or diagonal rod settings.

When you this far you can print the calibration object (which I am doing right now on my printer by the way, now that I have rpertier 0.96 working) for the final fine-tuning.

I will update you on my progress of the latter when I am finished...

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## Roxy

Thank You for that detailed description!   That helped me.   I'm going to go back and re-do my end stop adjustments.   But I still don't understand why that affects the height the nozzle is above the bed when it is close to the tower.  By moving the carriage up or down, you just push the effector sideways more or less????   There is something going on with the endstops that I don't understand yet.

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## LuckyImperial

> NEW PROBLEMS!!!! so not excited 
> 
> I went thru and did all calibrations again , everything seemed fine except my diagnol rod length (for dishing) went from like 240 to 640 .... that normal? Horizontal length had to be increased too , its now at 180 from 140 ish (dont remember exactly)
> I also did the extruder calibration as well. Esteps went from 147  to 165. My Max Z went from 350 to 302 , then down to 268 and seems to steadily be decreasing.... but this could be because the heating and cooling of the extruder , or the stupid auto level mickey mouse rig of an effector i have.
> 
> The real problem that i seem to have is it now tries to print everything in micro. When I load the calibration tool to print , I slice it ... even in the preview window it still shows that its going to print out close to my max bed size , but once printing starts it prints it 1/4 what it is supposed to. I loaded the calibration cubes and it tried to print those so small they would have fit on a nickel, with a 4 wrap skirt. So either I inadvertly built a shrink machine or I screwed up somewhere.


Remember...

"Diagonal Rod Length and Centered Rod Offset. Those two settings may be called something different in different firmware, but they're always there and they always do the same thing. Diagnonal Rod Length will affect the dimensional accuracy of your printer and Centered Rod Offset (smooth rod offest, rod radius, horizontal rod offset, etc) affects the "dishing" of your printer. If Diagonal Rod Length is wrong then your printer will print things either too big or too small. If Centered Rod Offset is wrong then things don't get printed on a level plane.

The next thing in calibration is leveling. Which is dead simple. You level the effector plane with repsect to the bed by adjusting endstop offsets, or trimming them using screws that are sometimes mounted to the carriages (for some printers). 3 points define a plane. Your job is to make it match the bed. Takes 10 minutes if you have trimming screws. "

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## Nickschaos81

So I found this article, because I can't stop thinking about this , even thou I'm at work.
http://minow.blogspot.com/?m=0

It seems to make more sense to me and his terms match things in my firmware.... you guys thoughts?

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## LuckyImperial

> So I found this article, because I can't stop thinking about this , even thou I'm at work.
> http://minow.blogspot.com/?m=0
> 
> It seems to make more sense to me and his terms match things in my firmware.... you guys thoughts?


That article has been the "Gold Standard" for delta calibration for quite some time now. It will definitely lead you down the right path.

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## Nickschaos81

so i think i have this thing finally working. im fine tuning dimensions but it seems to be good. I finally broke down and shut the eeprom off and did all calibrations straight from the firmware in arduino. Then reinabled the eeprom ( like it talked about in the link i just provided) Ill keep you guys posted , but as for now , i think i have a printer  :Smile:

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## Alibert

Congrats!!!!

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## Nickschaos81

so i have a new question concerning rep. I found a big problem with the eeprom stuff built in to rep. I can and now have a working printer by altering the arduino config.h file of my firmware. as long as i have the eeprom line turned to off. If i turn it on so i can alter the eeprom from withing rep. It undoes everything.... So for now I have it turned off. I have uninstalled rep. and reinstalled. to see if that would fix it .... any ideas... like maybe a way to get rep to set the eeprom config by actually reading it first.... not a big deal. i dont mind using the arduino side of it , but for convience it would be nice


Edit: Rep as in Repitier host

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## Alibert

Just change the value of EEPROM_MODE in Configuration.h to any unused before value in the range of 1-255. I am at 32 myself now...

The firmware when booting compares the byte in the EEPROM to this value. If it is the same (like 1 or 2), then the EEPROM values are used instead of the values specified in Configuration.h. If it is different (actual EEPROM value differs from what you specified as EEPROM_MODE in the source code before compiling), the settings of Configuration.h are used to overwrite the existing values in the EEPROM.

The web-based configurator tool specifies 0 for no EEPROM support, and 1 or 2 for changing EEPROM settings at boot. However, any value of 1-255 is OK, as long as it is different from your previous flash...

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## Nickschaos81

Sweet, thanks

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