# Specific 3D Printers, Scanners, & Hardware > RepRap Format Printer Forum > MakerFarm Forum >  Stream of I3V 12" Build Consciousness

## lakester

I took delivery of my 12" I3V kit yesterday.

Ordinarily, I would share an obsessively detailed log of my experiences with something new.

But not this time...  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Instead this will be more of a stream of consciousness record of whatever comes to mind during the assembly, tuning, and usage of the printer.

---

A little background:  I didn't really think too much about getting a 3D printer up until maybe 1.5 months ago.  I had told myself that I wasn't going to make the purchase until I really had some other reasons than to just build one.  In some sense, it had to earn its keep.

So..., I started a list of items that I wanted/needed that a 3D printer was uniquely suited to provide with the proviso that no printer would be bought until I had at least 10 items on the list.

Heh..., I was a little surprised as to how quickly that list grew.  Some items were minor, but nice-to-have, but others were really compelling and aligned well with my other interests, chief among those is pottery..., which seems strangely appropriate.

---

So, list in hand, it was time to pick a printer.  I'll skip all the details, but I will say that PrintRBot was in the lead for a long time.  I liked the mechanical aesthetic of Brook's machines, and was hoping to get a Metal Plus.  Unfortunately, I had too many nagging doubts about "issues" with the Plus, and was sorta indirectly steered in the direction of a reprap style kit by comments from someone on the PrintRBot forum.

As I looked into the reprap/open source/kit options, it really became apparent that quite possibly a functionally and practically better choice could be had outside the store-bought options.  True, "better" is judged from my specific interests and needs, but there ya are.

Ultimately, my search took me to Makerfarm.  What finally sold me was:


Utility of the finished product.Adaptability.Support of the reprap community, and this forum in particular.Success of others with assembly/tuning.Colin.  I swear, I don't know how he does the support thing, but he does, and its incredible.

---

Some early decisions:

*Controller Board*:  Initially I was gonna go with the RAMPS, but decided on the RUMBA since it seems to position things better when/if comes the time to contemplate a conversion to 24V.

*12V vs 24V*:  I was tempted to build the machine as a 24V system from the start, mainly owing to concerns about heating the 12" bed.  Based on comments from Colin, I decided to stick w/ 12V for now and save 24V for another day.

*Vinyl Tubing vs Metal Flex Couplers on Z*:  Decided to stick with the tubing until I've gotten some experience with the machine, on the off chance that the tubing will act as a clutch in the event of an, er, unplanned Z excursion.  I would almost be tempted to sacrifice accuracy/reliability early on by lubing the tubing to make sure it slips in the event of "badness".  Later, I'd switch to the metal couplings.

*Power Supply*:  I'm a little ashamed that I've decided to go with the cheap option, but mostly for reasons unrelated to "cheap".  I got one of the $23 specials off of Amazon..., hopefully it will work out, at least long enough to get things working.  What really drove the decision was entirely unrelated to the printer.  I needed some obscure spark plugs that no one was stocking..., but they were available as "add-on" items on Amazon.  I had kept forgetting about them on earlier orders, and so I figured I'd roll the dice with the cheap power supply, and AT LEAST get the darn spark plugs.

---

For now..., that is all!

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## lakester

What have we here?

20150423_171239-blurred.jpg

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## beerdart

Congrats on your new baby..

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## lakester

I've used my trusty dial mic for a number of years.

Clearly..., this will not do.

A.  It's not metric..., the 3d printing world is.
B.  Everyone else has a digital, metric mic, and I'm feeling very self-conscious about that.

This will be fixed soon.

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## jasay

Hey, I like dial calipers.  Decent dual measurement dial calipers cost more than dual measurement digital ones though.  And being able to zero the caliper at arbitrary positions lends itself to some neat measurement tricks.  Looking forward to seeing your build.

Edit: Oh wait, you said mics.  Would be nice to have to filament measurements.  Sorry went off to lala land for a bit.

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## lakester

So far so good.

The pile of unassembled pieces is starting to shrink in relation to the other pile that looks like it's trying to be something.

The build is happening when and where I can grab the time.  My old workshop is starting to become usable again, but I'm actually building this thing in 3 separate parts of the house while things settle down.

One quasi-tip:

When tightening the delron/bearing assemblies, I'd suggest focusing on tightening the nut, and NOT the bolt.  I found that this permitted the tightest overall fitting without binding. (It's a standard mechanical assy practice anywayz).  So far, all the delron wheels have gone together very nicely with this method, but...

A couple of quasi-gripes:
The (4) M124 idler bearings, seem to be a problem, or at least this application of them.  I think the source of the problem is that the tolerances between the full length threaded M5 bolts and the washers is too loose, possibly permitting the washers to slip off center and interfere with something.  Not sure really..., I just know that I haven't really successfully tightened the idler assys without binding the M124 bearings.  May look for other M5 bolts that are only partially threaded...The M3 nuts that ship with the kit are 25% poo poo.  The M3 bolts seem fine, but the nuts, not so much.  Honestly, the 25% was earlier in the day..., later in the afternoon it seemed like every other nut that came out of the bag was bogus.  My trusty magnifying app has revealed a lot of bum threads.

Apart from the above, I'm applying a MinWax stain/seal, 1 coat, incrementally as I proceed with each assembly.  So far, no issues with interference related to the finish, it's almost dimensionally invisible.  The only component I won't be finishing is the Y-bed.  Just thought I'd leave well enough alone wrt chances for warping, it's kinda unseen anyway, and the fact that I didn't feel like trying to make the stiffeners epoxy joints look nice when stained.

Oh yeah..., as for the glue I'm using for the stiffeners(aka stabilizers), it's epoxy.

Maaaaybe will have a large part of the mechanical assembly done by the end of the weekend.

That is all.

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## ex-egll

+1 on the lousy M3 nuts. I wrote to Colin about this, and evidently there was a bad batch came through the system. Supplier informed!

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## Hankus

Binding of the Delrin wheels reminded me, that in my 10" kit the wheels washers and bearings came preassembled but I found the washers were too thin to allow any tightening without binding of the wheels.  The seperate 5mm washers that came in the kit were about .2mm thicker, so I ended up swapping all the washers to make things work.  When I talked to Colin about the problem with the washers it was like he didn't understand, and said I was tightening too much.  If the bolt and nut can still spin with the fingers in the wood frame I wasn't tightening enough in my book.

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## lakester

Thx Hankus...

Yah..., the binding I first experienced was with the idlers..., but after I wrote my earlier post, the last two delrin wheels to go on my y-bed also had binding issues.  It was as you say..., you couldn't tighten them AT ALL to keep the assembly from rattling around w/o creating at least some binding.

I held off trying to dis-assemble the delrin wheels..., so I take it the bearings can be removed w/o damaging the wheels?




> Binding of the Delrin wheels reminded me, that in my 10" kit the wheels washers and bearings came preassembled but I found the washers were too thin to allow any tightening without binding of the wheels.  The seperate 5mm washers that came in the kit were about .2mm thicker, so I ended up swapping all the washers to make things work.  When I talked to Colin about the problem with the washers it was like he didn't understand, and said I was tightening too much.  If the bolt and nut can still spin with the fingers in the wood frame I wasn't tightening enough in my book.

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## Draled

I didn't have issues with them binding, but yes, the bearings can be removed.

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## ex-egll

> I held off trying to dis-assemble the delrin wheels..., so I take it the bearings can be removed w/o damaging the wheels?




No problem with removing and replacing the bearings.

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## lakester

Cool.  Then the problem wheels are on my list of things to come back to.  Thx.

So far things are assembled up to but not including the end-stops.  Oh..., I did go ahead and bolt on the power supply and added some nylon spacers between the frame and supply, hopefully to give cooling a bit more of an edge.  Also added washers to all the motor mount screws. 

Most things went together requiring little or no adjustment afterwards (OK..., ignoring the wheels), and things seem "sound" enough for initial testing without immediately revisiting them.

I've decided that the build is going to move to my sorta working workshop.  There, I'll have easy 360deg access to the machine w/o moving stuff around.  Optimal wiring routing seems like it's gonna require a bit of creativity and stress-free access to everything will help.

Not sure if I'll be able to make any more progress this weekend, but early in the week things will proceed, including acquisition of the glass. 

Also am faced with one of those trivial decisions I'm kinda bad at:  which power switch to purchase/use.  I'm almost tempted to make a Frankenstein-style scissor switch and bolt it on the side.  OK..., just kidding.  I think.  Yes!  OK!  I'm kidding.

Have a great weekend!

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## Hankus

Cleaning up the wiring took most of my time and attention.  I invested $14 in a Hobbyking JST-HS Crimping tool, and about 3 dozen female servo pins and shortened about 75% of all my wiring cables which helped a lot.

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## ex-egll

> Cleaning up the wiring took most of my time and attention.  I invested $14 in a Hobbyking JST-HS Crimping tool, and about 3 dozen female servo pins and shortened about 75% of all my wiring cables which helped a lot.


Likewise, the wiring cleanup seems the most "demanding" task of the whole build. Just waiting for the JST connectors and pins to arrive. Otherwise, like lakestar, the build went pretty good for me apart from a large percentage of the M3 nuts being sub-par.

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## Hankus

> Likewise, the wiring cleanup seems the most "demanding" task of the whole build. Just waiting for the JST connectors and pins to arrive. Otherwise, like lakestar, the build went pretty good for me apart from a large percentage of the M3 nuts being sub-par.


I agree with the M3 nuts.  Consistent quality out of China is a problem.  I went to a local hardware store chain in my area and found M3 nuts that were FULL dimension and didn't spin in the wood "nut traps".

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## lakester

Things got kinda slowed down owing to what seemed to be discrepancies in the build guide(s).  The information was more or less there, but in the wrong order.  An email to Colin got the response that I was probably using the old build guide.

Sure enough, the new guide et al ordered the steps in a more sensible fashion for my particular H/W combo (RUMBA w/ Hex hot-end).

While reviewing the new docs...

Had cause to review things w/ my Z-motor install.  Heh..., forgot to tighten the X-idler assy..., which led me to a better leveling of things.  So +1 to the new docs for that one.

OTOH, all mention of wiring power for the RUMBA has gone missing, both in the main guide and in the RUMBA wiring guide.  Sure..., the diagram was there..., but the words regarding which gauge of wire to use where are a nice reminder/checklist item.  Sent word to Colin.

Lastly, and I'm not sure this was mentioned in any version of the docs that relate to the RUMBA..., I happened to be watching the old RAMPS install vid on youtube.  THERE you will find mention of the heatsinks for the stepper drivers.  NOW I know what that little packet of what looked like some kind of connector bodies are for.  They're heatsinks!  Not mentioned in any of the current docs it seems.

I don't know if they're genuinely necessary..., but they seem like a "not bad idea"..., so they will be installed tomorrow.

Since the last report..., at least made the following progress:

End-stops installed.RUMBA firmware uploaded and verified to be talking to the LCD.Extruder assembled.

Hopefully will remember to swing by the glass shop tomorrow, and will get at least some of the power related wiring done.

That is all!

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## TopJimmyCooks

Not experienced with Rumba but on ramps those heat sinks are definitely needed with the stock stepper drivers.  And, if you want to print for hours on end reliably you need some kind of fan blowing on them.

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## lakester

I think the drivers are the exact same part on the RAMPS and RUMBA, so I expect the requirement is the same.

Will be interesting to point the IR sensor at the drivers once things are up and running...

(Forgot to mention:  Colin is updating the RUMBA wiring guide to include the power supply related instructions)




> Not experienced with Rumba but on ramps those heat sinks are definitely needed with the stock stepper drivers.  And, if you want to print for hours on end reliably you need some kind of fan blowing on them.

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## Hankus

> I think the drivers are the exact same part on the RAMPS and RUMBA, so I expect the requirement is the same.
> 
> Will be interesting to point the IR sensor at the drivers once things are up and running...
> 
> (Forgot to mention:  Colin is updating the RUMBA wiring guide to include the power supply related instructions)


Had the same issues with my RAMPS wiring guide and the exact same response from Colin.  If at the beginning of the build guide you're specifically told you will need to purchase 3' of 12awg and 6' of 16awg speaker wire, and then never mention either item again in the build, leaves one hanging.  Updating the wiring diagrams should at least help to a large degree.

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## lakester

I checked earlier today, and it looks like the 12" I3V build guide has been updated with the RUMBA and pwr supply info, and FWIW, the build order is now correct for the RUMBA/Hexagon combo.




> Had the same issues with my RAMPS wiring guide and the exact same response from Colin.  If at the beginning of the build guide you're specifically told you will need to purchase 3' of 12awg and 6' of 16awg speaker wire, and then never mention either item again in the build, leaves one hanging.  Updating the wiring diagrams should at least help to a large degree.


More or less made expected progress today,  Got the glass and the machine now runs on its own power (as opposed to running the RUMBA off of USB during firmware install).  The HB thermistor says it's 19C..., and so it is.  Apparently can't try heating the bed until the hot-end is installed as well, though the bed is fully wired.

I gotta say..., the wiring is very UNsatisfying.  It looks like I'll be wiring it "the first time" to get things running, and then refining it over time.  I had visions of just doing right the first time, but kept hitting little hiccups along the way..., so I decided to be more pragmatic.

One hiccup was especially frustrating.  The X-motor stepper cable can't reach the controller.  Not no way.  Not no how.

Coincidentally, the kit was packaged with six servo cables (of color scheme differing from the stepper's), with female connectors at BOTH ends.  So..., you're supposed to bleep'n splice a servo cable onto the stepper cable for the X-motor.

Umm..., sorry..., that just feels lame.  It's a pity that producing pre-made wiring harnesses for I3Vs isn't a viable business, cuz it could sure benefit from it.

In theory, there's not much left to do, but I'm not sure when my next block of "quality time" will present itself.

We shall see.

That is all!

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## lakester

All heat, no smoke.

Hot-end and heated bed are doing their respective things.   :Big Grin: 

Progress.

One more (hopefully) trip to the HW store and should be ready to complete the wiring and begin testing.

Consider there to be ongoing grumbling about splicing the X-motor servo cable.   :Mad:

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## Carrot_or_Stick

Yeah I didn't like that I needed to do that as well if I wanted to clean up my wires. In the end though I did enjoy how it looked more than how much I didn't like having to do it.




> All heat, no smoke.
> 
> Hot-end and heated bed are doing their respective things.  
> 
> Progress.
> 
> One more (hopefully) trip to the HW store and should be ready to complete the wiring and begin testing.
> 
> Consider there to be ongoing grumbling about splicing the X-motor servo cable.

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## Hankus

> I checked earlier today, and it looks like the 12" I3V build guide has been updated with the RUMBA and pwr supply info, and FWIW, the build order is now correct for the RUMBA/Hexagon combo.


And I just now checked the current 10" i3v build guide and it has seen similar updates.  Good job Colin!

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## Hankus

In one of Colin's videos he used one of the many extra cables, clipped off one female end and soldered to it a group of three terminals from a header strip turning it into a male piece.  Heat shrank or taped the result then plugged it into the cable end that needed extension.  When I added ABL to my printer I had to extend my RC Servo using this method.  Worked fine.

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## TopJimmyCooks

If you're into this hobby and specifically prusa variants, prepare yourself to do plenty of wire shortening, lengthening and managing.  Soldering iron, solder, a fistful of tie wraps, heatshrink and a bic lighter will put you right.  The kits come with plenty of extra wire in the RRD wiring kit.  

If you want plug and play, I hear Ultimaker has a nice one.   :Big Grin:

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## lakester

Yup.  And the making lemonade view is that what goes along with the difficulties are the prusa strengths, namely:  excellent maintainability.  While I'm grumbling about the wiring scheme, the thing I gotta remember is that when I brought it down to put on the workshop table so as to have 360deg access to everything..., I actually got it.  I can't think of a single gizmo I've worked on of similar complexity for which I can say that.

..., and..., man..., I thought I had a pretty good stash of tie wraps..., but jeesh.  :Wink: 

I guess a little status while I'm here:  Probably won't be able to finish wiring today, too much pointless-useless-non-3d-printer-building stuff I gotta do instead.  

Have decided that since the X servo cable has gotta be stupid long anyway..., might as well as take advantage of that and route it along the top and behind the frame.

Last night played with various temp settings.  The indicated temps actually come up pretty quickly.  The HE very quickly..., and the HB comes up to 100C (indicated) in probably less than 3 min.  BUT..., the IR sensor shows much lower temps on the HB than what are indicated.  So..., I'm guess's a proper warm-up includes a substantial heat-soak.  Might get a silicon sheet to throw on top of the HB while heating.




> If you're into this hobby and specifically prusa variants, prepare yourself to do plenty of wire shortening, lengthening and managing.  Soldering iron, solder, a fistful of tie wraps, heatshrink and a bic lighter will put you right.  The kits come with plenty of extra wire in the RRD wiring kit.


Per Bill The Cat:  "thpppppfpppt!!!!"




> If you want plug and play, I hear Ultimaker has a nice one.

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## lakester

Yah..., I saw that and thought my thoughts about that as well..., BUT..., it so happens (thaaaank youuuu Colin) that an extra fan was packed in the RUMBA box..., with a cable juuuuust long enough to permit wiring into one of the power blocks on the RUMBA.

So there's that.




> In one of Colin's videos he used one of the many extra cables, clipped off one female end and soldered to it a group of three terminals from a header strip turning it into a male piece.  Heat shrank or taped the result then plugged it into the cable end that needed extension.  When I added ABL to my printer I had to extend my RC Servo using this method.  Worked fine.

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## lakester

Wow.  It was all a bit anti-climactic.  It just worked!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwn6uiJvfhI
Don't have the time to summarize the build, but I'll say that I'm glad about my decision to build this particular printer.  That decision was based in large part on the repeated success so many others have had, and I'm happy to have shared in that experience.

As an aside, my Dad's wife was feeling under the weather y'day, and she loves owls.  So I figured "why not?".  Headed over to thingiverse and downloaded this:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:621350
Started this immediately after the cube finished.  Got up this morning and...


20150510_081108-rotated.jpg
Gonna head downstairs and continue to cleanup the workshop.  Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

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## ex-egll

Congratulations, impressive first prints.

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## lakester

Was looking for something with a little height.  I really picked the wrong thing, but it ended up being an interesting experiment anyway.

At the very least, I need to secure the printer to a rigid and stable surface.  Still, if this is the worst it does in less than ideal circumstances..., it's not too bad.

https://youtu.be/BAD4ikaqFhE

Will be interesting to see what mods things like this might lead to...  :Wink:

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## voodoo28

Looks good! ....the bits of roughness you see on the edges could be that your retractions settings need some tweaking..




> Was looking for something with a little height.  I really picked the wrong thing, but it ended up being an interesting experiment anyway.
> 
> At the very least, I need to secure the printer to a rigid and stable surface.  Still, if this is the worst it does in less than ideal circumstances..., it's not too bad.
> 
> https://youtu.be/BAD4ikaqFhE
> 
> Will be interesting to see what mods things like this might lead to...

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## lakester

Thx!  That reminds me:  what I should do is look for calibration shapes appropriate to this printer....




> Looks good! ....the bits of roughness you see on the edges could be that your retractions settings need some tweaking..

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## lakester

So I needed a knob for the LCD panel.  Who doesn't?

While I was assembling the extruder, I knew what it had to be, and that it might be a good opportunity to begin learning FreeCAD.

On the first go around, I simply doubled the size of the extruder motor pinion, closed up some holes, and put in a 6mm hole.

The print produced something like a 5.715mm hole, and it didn't fit.

Of course, 6mm wouldn't have fit either..., since I didn't measure the shaft particularly carefully.  Went back and mic-ed it for real and found it was more like 6.1mm diameter.  Adding a 5% allowance seemed like too much, so I kinda split the difference and tried a 3% shrinkage allowance (and added a bevel to the hole to match the shaft).  That one fits and is the one in the picture.

Turns out, doubling the size of the part was a bit much.  The rotary encoder is not mounted on the PCB in a particularly robust way, and I think this knob gives too much leverage, increasing the possibility of breakage.  So..., I'll probably shrink it down to something 1.5x w/ a 6.3mm x 10mm hole.

Was a little disappointed w/ FreeCAD on Linux (Mint 17).  The version in the package repo is 0.14, and is flaky as hell.  Unusable for my purposes actually.  So I'm using the most recent Mac version (0.15) and that seems to be OK, though I'd much rather be using the desktop for this stuff.

Anyways..., here's a vid and a pic...

https://youtu.be/X0VV6cXjzKU

20150513_085756.jpg

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## lakester

Per Voodoo's comments, I decided to try running some retraction tests.

For context:
3mm PLA (tan) filament.hexagon HE w/ .4mm nozzle.stock MF HE cooling shroud.heTemp=225c, hbTemp=70c.

Unfortunately, the final set of photos don't really present very well, so I'll only show some intermediate photos of the first two tests (the 30->20 comparison).

I ran the tests with retraction rates of 30mm-s(per MF slic3r config file for my setup), 20mm-s, and 10mm-s.

The most obvious change in quality came from the 30->20 test (which is what the photos cover).  The 20->10 test showed some small improvements, but nowhere near as dramatic.

The article with the equally spaced pylons of all the same height showed the most improvement.  With the exception of the base, all the layers are identical, and all segments are relatively close together.

The article with the tall corner pylons behaved much the same way, UNTIL the tall pylons rose above the rest, and whose rendering involved retracts w/ large X/Y moves.  I.e., they spent the least amount of time in the downwash of the HE cooling fan.  Once the 4 tall pylons, each spaced a significant distance from one another, began to be the only things rendered, things got worse.

Or put another way:  the sections that spent the most continuous time under the HE cooling downwash did better than the ones that spent less continuous time in the downwash.

This makes me think that the addition of a part cooling fan might be useful.

*All Short Pylons, 30mm-s on left, 20mm-s on right

*20150513_210034.jpg


*Tall Corner Pylons, 30mm-s on left, 20mm-s on right
*20150513_210026-small.jpg

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## voodoo28

Im not sure how slic3r retraction settings go..but in simplify3d there is a retraction distance and a retart ...retraction distance on mine is set to 1.75mm..that's how far up the filament is retracted into the extruder before the next layer... Then restart distance tells it when to start extruder again before new layer.

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## lakester

Slic3r allows specification of the following related to retraction:

Length (set to 1mm)Lift Z (0mm)Speed (defaults to 30mm-s)Extra length on restart. (set to 0mm)Minimum travel after retraction (2mm)Retract on layer change (true)Wipe while retracting. (false)A couple of multi-extruder relted items.

I only wanted to play w/ retract speed initially, since my sense was that if I started fiddling w/ length, I'd have to balance that against the "extra length on restart" value.

Lift Z would probably be a last ditch sorta thing, since you'd take a pretty big performance hit playing w/ Z on a Y-bed printer like a Prusa.  Printers w/ a Z-bed MIGHT do better w/ this, and deltas I assume would.

FWIW..,  Clough42's part cooling fan shroud (stretched version w/ ears added) is printing now..., hopefully will get to install it in the next 2-3 days.  Heh..., this is my first ABS part.  Now I know what curling is all about, hence the ears!




> Im not sure how slic3r retraction settings go..but in simplify3d there is a retraction distance and a retart ...retraction distance on mine is set to 1.75mm..that's how far up the filament is retracted into the extruder before the next layer... Then restart distance tells it when to start extruder again before new layer.

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## voodoo28

You can try setting the length from 1mm to 1.75...that will help with the tiny blobs. I had mine set to. 1mm and was having the blobs too.


> Slic3r allows specification of the following related to retraction:
> 
> Length (set to 1mm)Lift Z (0mm)Speed (defaults to 30mm-s)Extra length on restart. (set to 0mm)Minimum travel after retraction (2mm)Retract on layer change (true)Wipe while retracting. (false)A couple of multi-extruder relted items.
> 
> I only wanted to play w/ retract speed initially, since my sense was that if I started fiddling w/ length, I'd have to balance that against the "extra length on restart" value.
> 
> Lift Z would probably be a last ditch sorta thing, since you'd take a pretty big performance hit playing w/ Z on a Y-bed printer like a Prusa.  Printers w/ a Z-bed MIGHT do better w/ this, and deltas I assume would.
> 
> FWIW..,  Clough42's part cooling fan shroud (stretched version w/ ears added) is printing now..., hopefully will get to install it in the next 2-3 days.  Heh..., this is my first ABS part.  Now I know what curling is all about, hence the ears!

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## printbus

10 or 15mm/sec is a more reasonable speed for the extruder. Also, view the gcode in a viewer like gcode.ws. Blobs that occur somewhere other than moves or layer shifts can't be due to retraction.

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## voodoo28

I second that on the Retraction speed...I used to have my set to default by 30mm...never worked correctly until i dropped it to 15mm.


> 10 or 15mm/sec is a more reasonable speed for the extruder. Also, view the gcode in a viewer like gcode.ws. Blobs that occur somewhere other than moves or layer shifts can't be due to retraction.

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## lakester

Thx all on the retraction comments.

ATM, I have ABS loaded and printing.  I figure that while I have it in the machine, might as well as print off some ABS specific stuff I've had in mind.

While it's there, will run the retract test on the ABS once the various jobs have been finished.

Thx for the pointer to the gcode viewer..., cuz my eyes just don't hack it anymore when it comes to sussing out when things go wrong in tiny little places.

When I get back to PLA, I'll try 1.75mm for the retract distance at 20mm-s.  If that gives a positive indication, will try at 15mm-s.

I'm also VERY interested to see if the parts cooling fan makes a difference on the "4 towers" part of the test.  Not sure if I have all the parts handy to get that wired as soon as I'd like..., we'll see.

Anyways, will get back to more fun w/ retraction after some bla bla bla on my part on ABS once tonight's/tomorrow's stuff gets done.

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## lakester

I wish I had some clear insight to share regarding the results of the retraction tests.  Instead, some observations...

Both PLA and ABS exhibited the same issues, though ABS to a significantly lesser degree.

In both cases, regardless of varying temp and retraction settings, the same effect was seen, which was the formation of branches on the start point of a perimeter.   Retraction settings DID make a difference, but not a huge one.

As a result of earlier tests, I decided that adding a part cooling fan might be interesting.  They were interesting all right, but in completely the opposite way I was thinking.  More on that in a bit.

While I have a long series of photos taken with prints done with different settings, there really is not sufficient difference to to justify posting them all here.  So I'll just post one photo the exhibits the general problem, as well as the "surprise" related to the part cooling fan.

20150518_112239.jpg
The object on the left is rendered with the part cooling fan off.  The object on the right (surprise!) was rendered with mostly the default auto-fan settings (which basically just result in the fan being cranked up to full speed for every layer after the first).  All other settings were identical between the two tests.  Material was PLA.

While I don't have any photos to illustrate, the fan was DEFINITELY a help when it came to bridging.  Haven't experimented with that specifically yet, but I do notice that the fill layers rendered on top of the infill honeycomb exhibit virtually no sagging, i.e., the resulting surface is pretty dang flat.

Along the way, I did some reading.  Naturally, ideas were expressed that were in complete contradiction with one another, so it was kinda hard to get a read on what was going on based on someone else' experience.

One of the things that seemed worth doing was checking my extruder calibration.  It was dead on.  (Heh..., actually a little surprised about that).

I tried a print using fan settings clough42 mentioned over in the itty bitty thread.  Exact same results, though I kind of expected that.

Read some stuff that made it pretty clear that part cooling fan shroud geometry and the specifics of the airflow can have a huge effect.  I.e., it ain't an all or nothing kind of thing.

Etc.

*Conclusions*:
The retraction test is possibly a degenerate case, or at least a corner case that may not be entirely relevant to what I want to do with this printer anyway.  It's still a challenge for me, but it ain't the end all be all...For future research:  how to best manage cooling for layers with many perimeters, because I think that is a relevant special case, and the Slic3r auto-fan settings aren't really up to it.
Read about direct rendering options that bypass a slicer altogether.  Wonder if this puts in place a better situation wrt automated analysis of cooling needs, since the print path can be altered in ways that aren't really possibly when slicing.The results may suggest OVER cooling, even with the part cooling fan off (remember that stock MF HE fan shroud..., it blows down onto the part).*I think it is worth trying clough42's HE cooling shroud*.

----------


## lakester

20150517_191939.jpg
As part of the aforementioned and quasi-ill-fated though educational retraction test, I added clough42's part cooling fan shroud.

I used the stretched version so as to be able to continue to use the existing MF HE cooling shroud.

After the 24mm test cube, this was my first print w/ ABS.  Well..., actually..., I attempted this several times in a couple of situations, and got some ABS schooling.  In the end, I added ears, and printed the part by itself rather than with a group of parts.

Apart from learning about ABS, some things didn't go according to plan.

Well..., one exception..., it did just work with the RUMBA..., no fussing around.  Oh..., some of the spares that were shipped w/ my kit were handy.  Like a spare fan!

But in every other way..., it was "interesting".


I spent waaaaay too much time shuffling around town to try to find some metric stuff (drills).  Gave up and made do.I got cocky with pronterface and ran my x-axis past x-max.  Badness occurred..., but I gotta say, the high repairability of the printer actually made it easy to fix.
Just the same..., an x-max limit switch is in this printer's near future.Discovered a problem w/ my y-limit switch and my y-bed in general.  Will post on that in the future.When all was said and done, got completely the opposite results I was hoping for.  I think that will be a good thing.

Per the previous post, gonna start the process of installing clough42's HE fan shroud.  This will mean printing the standard length version of the part cooling shroud, as well as the new piece.  As I recall..., I have to get a new fan as well..., so will research that a bit.

There are a couple of pottery related tools I want to make for use this week..., so the new-new shroud project may wait for that.

----------


## Hankus

Speaking of printing printer parts, I recently printed a set of spare parts for my i3v 10" with hexagon hot end.  When I printed the extruder piece, I noticed that a couple of locations on the bed lifted after maybe 10mm or more of ABS 3mm had been layed down.  I reprinted the same extruder with another brand of ABS to see if that made any difference, but the same lifting occurred.  But what really gets me is when I look at the piece supplied by Makerfarm and currently being used, it has the same evidence of lifting with the exact same resulting curved surfaces as those printed by me.  This would indicate a common problem and seeing how STUCK the ABS remains to a heated bed, makes me believe that cooling of the ABS is causing the lifting or the mass of ABS itself draws more heat than the bed can maintain.

----------


## lakester

Yup.  I saw the exact same thing.

As part of my "well..., while I have ABS loaded, might as well as use it" theme, I printed off the extruder pieces.

I didn't really notice it until long after removing it from the bed, but the main extruder structure had warped significantly on the table facing side, on the arm that mounts the upper right corner of the motor.

And yup, the MF supplied part has the exact same problem.

Heh..., the reason it all seems to work, in my case anyway, is that magically, the side on which the motor mounts is straight and true.  Now THAT, I don't get. 

FWIW, I was experimenting with different bed temps.  I THINK that for the extruder parts I started at 110C, and after a few layers, backed it down to 84C..., or possibly 90C.  The prints (of other things) that I left at 110C tended to exhibit spreading on the bottom layers over time.

I also found it useful to print difficult (ABS) parts by themselves rather than in groups, in order to "keep the heat on" each layer as long as possible, without long wait times as the machine went to render the perimeters of other parts.

One thought that has crossed my mind is the possibility that an enclosure might be useful.




> Speaking of printing printer parts, I recently printed a set of spare parts for my i3v 10" with hexagon hot end.  When I printed the extruder piece, I noticed that a couple of locations on the bed lifted after maybe 10mm or more of ABS 3mm had been layed down.  I reprinted the same extruder with another brand of ABS to see if that made any difference, but the same lifting occurred.  But what really gets me is when I look at the piece supplied by Makerfarm and currently being used, it has the same evidence of lifting with the exact same resulting curved surfaces as those printed by me.  This would indicate a common problem and seeing how STUCK the ABS remains to a heated bed, makes me believe that cooling of the ABS is causing the lifting or the mass of ABS itself draws more heat than the bed can maintain.

----------


## Hankus

Yes I thought the same thing about the extruder with regards to how fortunate that motor side was straight.  And yes I also tried printing multiple pieces and had poor results and came away with the same thought. 

The enclosure idea is one I'm working on now.  Have all the materials purchased and now just trying to find the time to work it into my schedule now that the weather around here has improved to the point that outside projects now have priority.  I plan to follow the design of this Youtube contributor who also has a Makerfarm i3v 10".  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkicD2RMveE    His final design was shown in this video   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWCAOSgp8Q

My cabinet will share the same basic shape, but I also plan to build mine with a base so I can move the installed printer about without much problem.  Maybe a couple of hand grips on the sides for ease of holding.

----------


## lakester

That voice sounds familiar..., I think he has another vid as well somewhere.  Heh..., OK..., now I need a CNC router...

The base with handles sounds like a good idea.




> ...
> 
> The enclosure idea is one I'm working on now.  Have all the materials purchased and now just trying to find the time to work it into my schedule now that the weather around here has improved to the point that outside projects now have priority.  I plan to follow the design of this Youtube contributor who also has a Makerfarm i3v 10".  
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkicD2RMveE    His final design was shown in this video   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIWCAOSgp8Q
> 
> My cabinet will share the same basic shape, but I also plan to build mine with a base so I can move the installed printer about without much problem.  Maybe a couple of hand grips on the sides for ease of holding.

----------


## lakester

So after a frustrating bit of bed leveling following the install of the parts cooler, and the discovery of "issues" w/ my build table, I decided to upgrade the z end-stop to something a little more useable.

At first I tried to modify clough42's original design to work with the 12" I3V, but FreeCAD was giving me too much difficulty.  Between outright crashes and hangs, and really out of date docs, I just decided to make do with clough42's original design, hacked with parts I could get at my local, rural, Ace Hardware.

Though the results aren't optimum, they work waaaaaay better than even the updated MF design.

This will be my last fiddling with z end-stop adjustment prior to adding some form of ABL.

20150520_133606-small.jpg

----------


## lakester

The extruder cable bundle was just bug'n me (and my X end-stop and RH Z rod).  

Finally had a chance to do a complete "thing" from scratch.  The jury is still out w/ FreeCAD, but it cooperated this time around.

I don't have the the swanky CAD skills of most of ya, but it works dammit!
20150521_200727-small.jpg20150521_203602.jpg
Heh..., the irony was I told myself "no cable ties allowed".  Ummm..., to hold a cable that is practically made out of cable ties.  It was the principle of the thing!!!

----------


## lakester

Finally have found the answer to a big part of one of my print problems, namely (a made up name...):  Post Retraction Start Point Tendrils.

This is the case where the filament is to be retracted prior to a new XY perimeter on the same Z plane (layer), but that by the time the hot end arrives at the new start point, filament has oozed substantially enough that it contacts a lower layer on the approaching perimeter, beginning the build-up of a tendril.

I distinguish this from stringing in that the hot-end successfully disconnects from the perimeter it's leaving behind, i.e., it's not leaving a trail.  It's building a mess on the destination end of the jump.

In a sense, the problem is still a retraction problem, but rather than with the mechanical retraction settings themselves, it's more to do with the temperature of the extrusion.  I.e., at too high a temperature, the fluidity of the extrusion is beyond the printer's means to mechanically control.  It's gonna ooze no matter what.

I had hesitated playing with extrusion temperatures simply because I assumed they would be relatively well characterized, and at worst, "optimum" would only be +/- a couple of degrees off the Makerfarm default settings for 3mm ABS w/ a Hexagon.

WRONG!!!  (Well..., I also didn't want to risk clogging the HE)

While I still think I have more tuning to go, thus far, I'm getting much better results a full 20C cooler (230C) than "factory" settings (250C).

I'm reasonably confident that my thermistor is installed as well as it can be, so any indicator error I assume would be on the lower end of the scale.

Heh..., I had been willing to ignore this problem, but when it showed up in a part (clough42's HE fan shroud) I was planning to use, I decided to play with it some more.

Here are the results thus far:
20150524_110628-small.jpg
The part on the left was printed at 250C, the one on the right at 230C.

Flash photos flatter noth'n..., so I can only say that the part on the right also has a visibly better finish than the one on the left, when compared standing in sunlight.

Not only are the tendrils vastly reduced, but there is significantly less "clotting".

It's interesting.  I had sorta come to dislike printing with ABS because when I tested an extrusion, it came out of the HE almost like it was burnt.  It didn't seem to flow nicely, the way PLA was doing.  As I lowered the temp, the extrusion flow/quality just got nicer and nicer.

As for the actual retraction settings, I've settled on 2mm @ 30mm/s for the time being.  The MF settings were 1mm @ 30mm/s, and I had tried increasing the length and slowing the rate.  What seems to make the most diff is the length, so I've bumped the rate back up to the original numbers and that seems to be working well.

I'm gonna try a jump down to 220C and see how that goes.  Who knows?  I may even like ABS after this.

----------


## dunginhawk

ive been one of those people that has largely liked ABS much more than PLA for over a year now.  I think 250c is WAYYYYY too hot for most anything ABS. I print at 230, even down to 225 depending on filament color, brand etc.
250 creates a molten liquid way less viscous than it should be... stick with the LOWEST possible temp you can.

----------


## lakester

Yah..., 225 is working very nicely.  I haven't tried 220 yet..., mostly since I notice on those occasions when the parts cooling fan kicks on, it really drops the HE temp.  The HE eventually catches back up..., but the effect is much less pronounced at the higher (too high) temps.

While working on an adapter for some vac cleaner parts, I had a print failure when I think slic3r detected a bridge in a small, low mass region, kicked on the fan, and essentially destroyed that part of the print cuz things got too cool.  Sure..., some tuning can fix that..., but I think 225 is probably a good lower limit.




> ive been one of those people that has largely liked ABS much more than PLA for over a year now.  I think 250c is WAYYYYY too hot for most anything ABS. I print at 230, even down to 225 depending on filament color, brand etc.
> 250 creates a molten liquid way less viscous than it should be... stick with the LOWEST possible temp you can.

----------


## lakester

Before I bought the Makerfarm kit, I made myself make a list of the things I would use the printer for, above and beyond printing printer parts or weird vases.

I can check off the first item on the list!


20150527_193630.jpg
I hated the attachments that came with my current Panasonic vacuum cleaner.  

The old Hoover attachments are a buh-zillion times better.

Thus, the Panasonic-Hoover vacuum attachment adapter was born.

This was a worthwhile little project for a couple of reasons:

It made me think a bit regarding the limitations of the material and FDM.  There was a compromise between simplicity and having the thing I thought I really wanted.  I really wanted a locking tab over the peg on the attachment, but that required a material flex in a fashion that it's usage basically didn't permit.  I could have done it with two parts..., but I wanted a one part solution.

So..., I learned a bit more about FreeCAD.  It still is a kind of buggy proposition, but it is definitely useful for certain things.  Anyways, employing a taper (hence, using lofting) on the Hoover end solved the problem.

This was my first successful use of cold acetone vapor smoothing.   For "utility" purposes, I'm quite happy.  

I was sorta bemused when I checked out thingiverse for vacuum cleaner stuff.  Jeez..., it's a whole sub-cult!  The Pana-Hoov adapter will be my first contrib to thingiverse.

Finally..., while something like this is unbelievably mundane, I really feel that little things like this can serve two purposes regarding the notion of 3d printing for the masses:  first, simple engagement with and appreciation of the things you use every day.  second, it's a small step towards personal resiliency and ability.

It's the little things.

----------


## Hankus

Well done.  I need to read more about the cold acetone vapor smoothing.  Your adapter looks very good.

----------


## lakester

Thx!  This was the method I used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvCE...ature=youtu.be

8 magnets are fine...

Oh..., I think the vid says use 4oz of acetone when using a 1ga container.  Waaaaaaay too much.  Use just enough to roll around in the can to get all the paper towels thoroughly wetted, but not dripping soaked.




> Well done.  I need to read more about the cold acetone vapor smoothing.  Your adapter looks very good.

----------


## lakester

I'm nearing time for a re-build of my Y-bed.  Have encountered warping/sagging that is just starting to become an issue (yup..., have the later bed w/ the stiffeners).

There are a couple of other mods I would like to make..., and what it adds up to is that if I take the printer down to do everything, it would also be a good time to get ABL working, IF I actually want it.

Unless some other problem is interfering somehow, manual bed-leveling is neither that frequent, nor that troublesome to accomplish.

Per Roxy's comments in another thread, I also just found out that Z leveling is enabled for the entire print..., which means the Z steppers get an unknown amount more busy during a print..., and if that has a performance/speed impact..., well..., I wouldn't like that.  The manual leveling is nice in that I know the Z steppers are only being used when they absolutely need to be.

But ABL is "cool"..., and it might just be "cool" enough to do if I could bypass the flippy-servo-switchy-thingy.  I.e., I'd like to go with the inductive sensor.  While there is a practical hardware problem related to a non-metallic table, eliminating the servo and associated Marlin/RUMBA fiddling is attractive.

I like printing on a glass bed.  I want to keep that.  I will be building a modified version of the current MF wood 12" table, mostly for the purpose of fixing the sagging problem.  Buuut..., it is an opportunity to give some thought as to how to incorporate metal leveling targets into the bed, while retaining the glass top.  I may just end up going the metallic tape target route.  If I use the right tape, its adhesive shouldn't be too susceptible to the occasional washing of the glass.

IF I lived in the Bay Area again, I might consider figuring out how to build an aluminum bed..., and sorta kill two birds with one stone, once and for all.  Buuut, I don't..., and so access to misc parts and materials and stuff is a fair bit more difficult where I am.  Getting the machining done and tracking down just the right everything is too much hassle ATM.

Think'n out loud...

----------


## voodoo28

Here's food for thought..  
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:822472




> I'm nearing time for a re-build of my Y-bed.  Have encountered warping/sagging that is just starting to become an issue (yup..., have the later bed w/ the stiffeners).
> 
> There are a couple of other mods I would like to make..., and what it adds up to is that if I take the printer down to do everything, it would also be a good time to get ABL working, IF I actually want it.
> 
> Unless some other problem is interfering somehow, manual bed-leveling is neither that frequent, nor that troublesome to accomplish.
> 
> Per Roxy's comments in another thread, I also just found out that Z leveling is enabled for the entire print..., which means the Z steppers get an unknown amount more busy during a print..., and if that has a performance/speed impact..., well..., I wouldn't like that.  The manual leveling is nice in that I know the Z steppers are only being used when they absolutely need to be.
> 
> But ABL is "cool"..., and it might just be "cool" enough to do if I could bypass the flippy-servo-switchy-thingy.  I.e., I'd like to go with the inductive sensor.  While there is a practical hardware problem related to a non-metallic table, eliminating the servo and associated Marlin/RUMBA fiddling is attractive.
> ...

----------


## lakester

Thx.  Added to "My Collections".




> Here's food for thought..  
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:822472

----------


## voodoo28

I already have the probe on hand..just havent had time to mess with the setup..


> Thx.  Added to "My Collections".

----------


## lakester

Hmm.

Have been printing the various pieces involved with the next set of updates to the printer.

ABS is being difficult.

I THINK the residual problem is one of the ones the update will try to fix, but the parts I'm printing to fix it are going to have some of the problems..., they will hopefully fix.

I print ABS at anywhere between 225 and 235..., keeping the HB at 110 (with a few exceptions).

The problem is that for some things, e.g. Greg's extruder block, the first 1 or two layers tend to have delamination issues.  The same part when printed at 250 doesn't have that particular problem (it has other problems).

(Note:  Just occurred to me that I'm seeing my worst results on humid days...)

So as it turns out, I'll end up using parts printed at varying temperatures, trading off between either sagging,  or delam where feasible.  FWIW..., I'm gonna end up using the first extruder block I printed, which was done at 250 w/ incremental drop in HB temp.  It has warping and small sagging issues, but they don't seem to matter much, and no delamination at all.

I'm HOPING that when the new HE cooling fan is in place, the cooler ABS temps will become more generally practical, since there will no longer be air being blown down on the first layer.

----------


## sniffle

> Hmm.
> 
> Have been printing the various pieces involved with the next set of updates to the printer.
> 
> ABS is being difficult.
> 
> I THINK the residual problem is one of the ones the update will try to fix, but the parts I'm printing to fix it are going to have some of the problems..., they will hopefully fix.
> 
> I print ABS at anywhere between 225 and 235..., keeping the HB at 110 (with a few exceptions).
> ...



you can initially flip[ the fan over and have it draw air through the HE fins instead of blow air through them... it helps quite a bit, quick simple and works... temps arent effected... at least as far as everyone that has tried it is concerned

----------


## lakester

OK, that's good to know.  I worried that the fan's seal against the shroud might not be sufficient, but as I look more closely, it's actually pretty tight.

Thx!




> you can initially flip[ the fan over and have it draw air through the HE fins instead of blow air through them... it helps quite a bit, quick simple and works... temps arent effected... at least as far as everyone that has tried it is concerned

----------


## lakester

I'm hating myself for giving FreeCAD another chance today.  

I thought just maybe if I could get the 2d rendering I needed in either SVG or DXF, I could import that into FreeCAD and use it only for extrude or loft operations, and thence to STL. 

Ha.  

The DXF import code just doesn't seem to want to work.  Looks like the importDXF install doc may be out of date, and I've tried all the likely install locations.  It appears that the code is being found, but some kind of internal error is causing FreeCAD to blindly generate a generic boo boo message.  I've downloaded the version the docs on github indicate are appropriate to FreeCAD 0.15..., but no joy.

SVG import gets closer, until you try to apply a thickness to a Solid/Face that had its origins as an SVG path.  Then..., FreeCAD actually just exits. 

FWIW, I used Inkscape to generate the vector files, simply because in this application, the nature of the part is artsy, not so much mechanical.  Attempting to design things in FreeCAD would be futile anyway, per my rant in another thread.

Per comments PyramidDave made in another thread, my sense is that OpenSCAD will be part of the solution..., it's just proving to be a challenge to create the STL that OpenSCAD will need.

Oh!  WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Looks like OpenSCAD can import DXF as well as STL!  Cool!  Inkscape can generate DXF.

Honestly..., this really is a preferred path even if FreeCAD were cooperating.  I can create the 2D using a tool appropriate to the content type and then use OpenSCAD to generate a canonic 3D part that will essentially be a fancy cookie-cutter encapsulating the extrusion of the 2d line drawing.

OK..., gotta stay cool..., stay calm!  (itsgonnaworkitsgonnaworkitsgonnaworkicanfeelit!!!  )

----------


## TopJimmyCooks

sketchup ftw

----------


## Chadd

Sketchup has it's limitations also. I get pretty frustrated every time I use it to draw something.






> sketchup ftw

----------


## lakester

Yah..., sketchup isn't available on Linux.  If I really get in a bind, I'll give it a shot on my MBP, but actually, for my current "artsy" plans, I'm actually kinda jazzed about the InkScape/OpenSCAD combo.

Hopefully in a week or so, I'll have a feeling whether it'll work or not...

Thx!

----------


## lakester

*Updated Extruder and X-carriage...*

This project has gone on hold for a bit.  I wasn't comfortable that anything I was planning was with certainty gonna make anything "better".  Shinier and prettier, yes.  But not necessarily better.

I've got sufficient info now to rethink things a bit, but not gonna get to it immediately since I've got some stuff that needs printing.

*ABS, warping, and delamination...*

I needed to print some fairly large ABS parts.  The problem was warping and delamination issues on the first layer.  I was pulling my hair out since I suspected the cooling fan mod I was planning would address that..., but not without kinda major disassembly, and without certainty it would really fix the problem.  So...

*Enter the Hilbert Curve...*

I know a picture is worth a thousand words, and I've got pictures..., just don't feel like uploading them to this site.  Sorry!

But..., think of the part I'm making as sort of like a large hockey puck.

No matter the temps I used, the rectilinear bottom layer only ever produced something akin to a 200 string guitar.  Everything was in alignment, just not properly laminated/adhered.

So I started looking at infill patterns, thinking that perhaps something more convoluted would help.  Well..., it does!

So while the warping problem wasn't addressed, the lamination issue was..., and I like the aesthetics of the finished piece.

Warping was diminished SOME, but not enough to say "good enough".

*That Dang HE Cooling Fan...*

This fancy, large, hockey puck-like part was the perfect smoking gun for the well known stock MF HE cooling fan problem, i.e., over cooling the part.  It was obviously no coincidence that the Y-min end of the part exhibited the worst warping by far..., right where the HE fan air was continually exhausting.

BUT..., the printbus and clough42 solutions both required a degree of fiddling that I just didn't feel quite committed to just yet.

Luckily, I came across this:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:641891

this allowed me to test the fan reversal in the most robust way possible, and prove once and for all if the fix would be worth the trouble, with the absolute minimal disassembly work and potential for wasted effort.

It's ugly, it requires fiddling to print (rotation, support material, and judicious adjustments by dremel), but it works great!

It also gave me some great feedback regarding a mod I was thinking of making to one of the other designs.

I had originally thought that the air passing through the HE was of sufficient volume as to not really pick up much heat.  And so..., I was thinking it would be a great idea to deflect that exhaust flow to the extruder stepper.

Now..., I don't think that quite so readily.  While it still MIGHT be a net win for the stepper..., I gotta say the air that comes out of that exhaust is surprisingly..., warm.  Almost hot at times.

*Etc...*

So..., I've slowly begun backing off temps again, now that the HE cooling is sorted out a bit better.   Will continue to experiment.

I can't say for sure that, given the HE fan fix, that the Hilbert Curve top/bottom infill is still needed..., but it looks really nice..., and is particularly attractive following an acetone treatment.  So where possible, I'll continue to take the time hit and use it.

It's hard to want to take the printer apart at the moment, simply because it's doing what I need at the moment.

Once I've gotten past the "antique dining room table reinforcement" project, I'll probably pay more attention to the fancy-fying of the the extruder and x-carriage.

----------


## Renfro

Just assembled my 10" yesterday and was worried that would end up having to go out and find extra M3 nuts. 30% of mine were bad.

----------


## Chadd

> Just assembled my 10" yesterday and was worried that would end up having to go out and find extra M3 nuts. 30% of mine were bad.



I had the same issue.

----------


## lakester

I periodically go looking for a good deal online for a small parts bundling of metric hardware common for reprap type printers.  Would just like to have a small supply on hand of common stuff w/o getting gouged too badly.  So far..., no joy.

----------


## CalifDan

www.mrmetric.com

I have used them.  Great prices even on small quantities.  They ship 2nd day small package so the shipping can be more than the parts unless you plan out everything you want.  I have used them for about a year when I need metric hardware.

----------


## lakester

(first:  thx Dan..., will definitely check them out!)

I'm really happy with the way a recent project has turned out (and more than a little surprised that it actually worked out).  This was the thing for which I've held up any additional modifications to the printer.  It's also one of the things that served as "justification" (aka rationalization) for getting a 3d printer in the first place.

https://plus.google.com/118417197410...ts/R1uWe5RrFhk

Next up for the printer:  some mods, and then on to some things related to the art aspect of my pottery work.

----------


## Bredmond

That is awesome!  Great work, especially love the carpet sliders.

Bill

----------


## lakester

Thx Bill.  It was a really satisfying project, made all the more so because it seemed so unlikely a month ago.

Getting the sliders to print was really the turning point, since it put doing something "real" with ABS within reach.  And of the slider pics, totally unexpectedly, the one of the double foot slider is almost, for lack of a better word, touching.  Strange how that happens.




> That is awesome!  Great work, especially love the carpet sliders.
> 
> Bill

----------


## Renfro

> I had the same issue.


These M3 nuts are still driving me crazy (pun avoided)! 

Last night I found out that my biggest problem with the prints was caused by the Y Idler not being secured. The nuts where all but impossible to remove or tighten! After 40 mins and almost breaking the wood parts we (four hands) where able to remove the nuts and replace with locally bought (good) nuts.

Didn't expect the lack of QC on this kit.

----------


## lakester

Sounds like you got past the problem.  I agree with everyone else regarding the quality of certain components of the kit.  The M3 nuts seem to be a significant "dis-satisfier"..., and if Colin fixed only that one problem (sure..., there are others), I think it would result in a useful improvement of folks' impression of product quality.

I dealt with the nuts by being VERY picky about whether I used them or not.  If there was ANY indication that there was a potential for cross-threading (which is what I think bit you), I threw out the nut.  The nut had to spin on easily, or it was discarded. 

In the end, my attitude toward the MakerFarm kit is very definitely on the glass-half-full side of things.  I would still recommend the kit to certain people, with the caveat that they have some appropriate mechanical skills and patience.  In a weird way, I feel like some of the problems I had assembling the kit, that related to weaknesses in the kit, actually contributed to the final outcome of the printer working on the first try, because it forced me to slow down and think things through.

Just the same, for Colin and MakerFarm's sake, I hope that some modest product improvement is on their roadmap.




> These M3 nuts are still driving me crazy (pun avoided)! 
> 
> Last night I found out that my biggest problem with the prints was caused by the Y Idler not being secured. The nuts where all but impossible to remove or tighten! After 40 mins and almost breaking the wood parts we (four hands) where able to remove the nuts and replace with locally bought (good) nuts.
> 
> Didn't expect the lack of QC on this kit.

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## lakester

..., one step the other way.

Weird.  I posted problems I was having with side-to-side adherence on the first layer with ABS.

Fiddled with first layer extrusion width settings, to no avail.

Should mention that apart from the first layer, print quality was pretty good.

THEN I decided to double check the condition of "things" with the printer.  Yikes..., really loose x-carriage and HE/bed gap that had gone way way wide.

So this was a good time to make some other fixes and small upgrades.  When the dust settled, I had:


Tightened the x-carriage..., pretty dang tight.  Seems to roll OK.Fixed a bogosity with the y-min stop related to MF switching to a roller type microswitch that didn't really properly engage with the standoff on the bed.Added a y belt tensioner:  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:612584Re-leveled the bed and got HE/bed clearance back to the draggy-sheet-of-paper state.

I then re-printed a problem part.  "Banjo" problem fixed.  Hurray!  Post-cooling warping fixed.  Hurray!  

New printing artifacts introduced.  BOOOO!!!

The harmonic wavvies are somewhat worsened.
Blobbing has appeared, possibly near retract points..., not sure yet.

It's really odd.  In some ways, the overall geometry is sharper and better controlled, but at the cost of localized printing artifacts.

So now gonna spend some time researching problems with things when they're too tight.  Except I don't think they're too tight.  Grr.

Will probably try printing some test articles to see if they bird-dog anything useful.

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## lakester

Haven't had any time to look into the problems introduced by the most recent "improvements".  No biggie.

FINALLY had a chance to use one of the dies (aka cookie cutters) I've created for use with pottery.

It sorta worked..., but didn't produce the time savings I was hoping for.  I think there are some additional refinements to the tool design that will help, so we shall see.  But along the way...

I've spent a lot of quality time with OpenSCAD.

From my experience thus far, what it is good at it is really good at.  But..., if you get anywhere near anything that it isn't good at, you hit the wall hard.

Most telling are the various tech discussions on various OpenSCAD related topics..., and the thing they seem to struggle with:  can a functional language effectively solve the problem being discussed.  Often times, regardless of whether or not A solution is POSSIBLE, in any practical sense, the answer is "no" (at least with OpenSCAD).  Some significant problems can't be naturally/comfortably solved within the confines of the language without either significant alteration to the language or the implementation of a black box module that ya just don't wanna know how it works.

The discussion regarding the means by which one can compute a bounding box is an excellent example of the problem.  Sorta ironically, one common workaround is to use some other language to generic canonic OpenSCAD.  I'm still conflicted as to whether to consider that an "insight" or "damnation".

So..., despite my previous rants, and with a little trepidation, I guess I'm gonna spend some time with FreeCAD scripting to explore other ways of processing various bits of art related design.

If FreeCAD's "bug density" turns out to nix that avenue of exploration, then I'm gonna finally bite the bullet and begin the long long long long long long (are we to Pluto yet?) journey with Blender.

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## lakester

I've been working on a fast path from outline drawing to die tool or cookie-cutter suitable for use with clay pottery.

Inkscape is the tool I use to create the original outlines.

I finally had reason to generate some vector/outline shapes that originated in image data.

The process of line detection or vectorization is imperfect.  Depending how one has tuned what are primarily image filters, shapes may be included in the initial vector product that ya don't want in the final product.

Inkscape primarily implements the SVG drawing model.

This means that when you want to crop/clip something out of a drawing..., you effectively create a stored clipping operation.

This does not modify the underlying drawing..., but merely manipulates your view of it.

Part of my "process" involves exporting the drawing to DXF format.  Unfortunately, there is no analogous operation that Inkscape understands to produce the "clipping" effect..., so..., Inkscape just simply dumps all vector data to the DXF.

Which means the thing ya didn't want..., ya get anyway.

So..., "word":  before you run the "Trace Bitmap" operation in Inkscape..., and if you plan to export it to DXF, then:


Either be ready to do "edit nodes" prior to the DXF export, or...,Try to make sure the image you're vectorizing is as clean as possible.

Heh..., but once you've done that, remember:  3d printing is still pretty dang cool.

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## lakester

So there I was, sitting in the next room, and I hear a soft <snap-tinkle-tinkle> from the direction of the 3d printer sitting in the other room.

I check it out, and, just sitting there, not having done anything for around 48 hours, the PLA filament between the spool and extruder had snapped.

The machine had been in the home position.

I was aware that the PLA had started to become brittle..., but it had been printing OK, so I shrugged and went about business.

What's odd is that the separation point was at a position I would have considered to have the least tension or stress on it of the entire arc of filament between the two end points.

This may be my cue to try one of the hokey re-conditioning methods I've read about, and possibly to get in the habit of zip bagging my PLA spool w/ dessicant during even fairly short periods of non-use.

---

In other news..., I keep hitting what seems to be a recurring theme:  incompatibilities between various 3d/drafting/drawing/processing systems at the file interchange level.

Every time I find a way I like to do something with software module "A", and want to pass it along for additional processing by module "B", using some file format or another e.g., DXF or STL, nagging problems arise that shoot down the entire effort.

In this case, it would be nice to use FreeCAD's 2D drafting abilities, and perform some additional operations upon the results using OpenSCAD.  FreeCAD's OpenSCAD integration isn't really what I'm looking for, or at least it doesn't seem to be (to be honest, I'm not quite sure I get the point of that integration as it now stands..., so maybe I need to give it a harder look to make sure I'm not missing something).  I'd much rather treat the two as independent steps in a pipeline rather than try to grok whatever it is that FreeCAD thinks it's trying to accomplish with its OpenSCAD integration.

Sigh..., oh look..., there's a road sign up ahead.  "Next Exit:  Blender"

Yeah..., I know..., I've said that before.  But one of these days Alice..., one of these days...

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## lakester

Not much new to "report"...

Have been playing around w/ Slic3r 1.2.9 a bit.  Unfortunately, it's a little prone to seg faults with things that work with 1.1.7.

OTOH..., significant performance work appears to have been done, which puts it more in line with other slicers.

FWIW..., Using 1.2.9's "Repair STL" operation does seem to take a seg-fault-causing STL and successfully turn it into a useable OBJ file.

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## lakester

Here are the first successful results of my attempts to use 3d printing to assist in the production of pottery.

https://plus.google.com/118417197410...ts/jPbPaM8Kttr

Nothing fancy..., yet.  :Wink:

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## CoffeeCup

Hello Lakester. Interesting use you are putting your MakerFarm to. I like it.




> The process of line detection or vectorization is imperfect.  Depending how one has tuned what are primarily image filters, shapes may be included in the initial vector product that ya don't want in the final product.


I believe I tried using Inkscape for this exact reason at one point when doing some 3D modeling of my motorcycle engine. I'm not 100% positive on that though. I remember doing something similar but it never panned out in the end.

I snapped photos of my engine part and then using Inkscape I tried an automatic vector tracing feature. I believe it wasn't to my satisfactory so I ended up tracing it myself manualy. Later in my 3d modeling program (Blender) I used those vectors to make a 3d Model.

Now I've learned other ways to 3D model using reference images. It's accurate but I'm still learning how to perfect it. Mainly getting good reference photos without perspective is the key. My current plan is to design and 3d print an adjustable iphone cradle i can clamp to my table. Having the ability to adjust the height of my camera lens exactly where i want it and lock it into place will be valuable. I can lock it's height to the center height of the real life object I want to design.

Using this method I'm currently accurately replicating a fluid reservoir cover on my motorcycle.

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## lakester

> Hello Lakester. Interesting use you are putting your MakerFarm to. I like it.


Thx!




> I believe I tried using Inkscape for this exact reason at one point when doing some 3D modeling of my motorcycle engine. I'm not 100% positive on that though. I remember doing something similar but it never panned out in the end.
> ....


Yah..., for the target medium, clay, Inkscape is OK.  Same as you, when it's something based on an existing image, I'm finding it much easier to just trace it out, and export the resulting DXF.  Inkscape is generally good for anything I do freehand as well.  Again..., because the target is clay, precision isn't a big concern and all the shapes tend to be fairly simple.

Good luck with the phone cradle!

P.S.:  I'm a little envious that you're working with Blender..., just don't know when I'm gonna find the time to learn it...

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## lakester

Long time no update.

I've been running with the original wood y-bed for around a year, and was living with the warping, since it was just missing direct interference with anything.

For a long time the bed had a clicking sound that I could never really isolate or eliminate..., and owing to the warp, the mechanical leveling was at the outer limits of possible.

The clicking and general feeling of "less than a precision instrument" wrt the likely binding of the delrin wheels, and the interest in taking the leveling thing to the next level finally reached a breaking point.

Finally got around to the aluminum bed upgrade.  

I'd like to say that when I print something now, the angels sing and people stop me in the street to ask all manner of questions about 3d printing..., but I can't say that.

What I will say is that the y-bed now moves smoothly AND silently.  Not much real change in print quality.  My hope is that the bed is generally more stable and the manual mesh leveling doesn't have to be done too often.

The next upgrades being planned:

Rear spool holder (lower the CG of the printer a bit)Print a new Wade's extruder assy and mod with PTFE tubing.
I STILL may go with IBDFV2 someday, but for now, I want the cheapest solution to printing w/ ABS and flexible mat'l on the same machine.PWM/PID driven SSR for HB

That is all.

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