# 3D Printing > General 3D Printing Discussion >  Pet+ as a good alternative to ABS

## RobH2

NOTE: This is a continuation of posts started on "Black ABS" but it quickly became about Pet+.

Tell me something about 'pet+'. It's not on my radar. Is it printable by a traditional RepRap configured printer? I'll have to go research it.

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## jimc

yes you can print it on anything. its about the easiest printing filament there is. prints as easy as pla, has temp resistance closer to abs and its more durable and flexible than abs. to be honest i have no idea why the 3d printing community, with a lack of heated build chambers, has adopted abs. with pet it really doesnt make much sense. there are a few brands out there. www.madesolid.com has the nicest stuff imo. the extrusion is perfect and prints so easy. colorfabb has another good one but only avail in clear. taulman tglase is good but they seem to have extrusion consistency issues that have yet to get resolved plus it prints just a hair more difficult than the others but still fairly easily. its a bit on the expensive side but i have figured in all the failed abs prints i have here and wasted filament and printer time and energy for those fails and it comes out to be close to a wash. once i got my settings dialed in for it i have yet to have a failure due to the plastic. the stuff is really bad ass.

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## RobH2

Thanks Jim. That's great info. I'm going to order some asap.

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## jimc

my settings file for the makergear m2 is posted on madesolid's website. it might not be on the money for your exact printer but it will give you someplace to start anyway. when you get it if you have any questions or need pointers just shoot me a pm.

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## RobH2

I need to get some in and test. My only question is can you smooth it? I have two reasons for liking smoothing. 1. it's an aesthetic improvement and 2. I've found that smoothing ABS is a really good way to protect it from layer separation. 

I've had several UNsmoothed ABS parts separate between layers and fail. I've never had a Smoothed ABS part fail due to layer separation.

Edit: Just ordered a roll via AmazonPrime. $35 with free shipping. I look forward to testing it. Thanks for putting it on my radar Jim...

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## jimc

rob, you can smooth it but not with acetone. you use methylene chloride. abs can tend to separate from the internal stress it develops during the printing process. since the pet+ has a super low thermal expansion rate it doesnt layer crack or warp. actually it can warp a little. its about the same as pla. its a very strong plastic. in many ways it reminds me of nylon. flexibility is about the same as taulman 618.

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## RobH2

Methylene Chloride is pretty nasty stuff. I see that it vaporizes at 104F so vapor smoothing it would be easy in a double boiler with hot tap water. I think more carcinogenic than Acetone so I'd guess it's best to only smooth outside with an organic respirator on. I see that it vaporizes at 104F so vapor smoothing it would be easy in a double boiler with hot tap water. I guess you could to a quick dip technique and not be too risky. 

I'd guess that most people Acetone smooth and don't use a respirator. We've gotten so used to smelling Acetone when our wives do their nails that we've subconsciously convinced ourselves that it's not dangerous. 

I have a spool coming. I look forward to using it. Does Pet+ put off any dangerous fumes when printing?

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## jimc

yes meth chloride is really bad for you. its mostly used as paint stripper and solvent adhesive for polycarbonate, acrylic and pet. a little hard to come by in its pure form. a well ventilated area is a must. acetone or the meth should really be done outside. the fumes are both explosive. as for printing fumes....no. there is no odor at all. its also flame resistant, food and medical safe.

rob here is a video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpFZEl-cXv4

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## RobH2

I think I'm in love. What's not to like about the stuff? Foodsafe too! RIP ABS and PLA. 

I'll have my roll on Monday. Can't wait to try it. 

Thanks Jim.

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## ixlr8

Great info guys!

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## Geoff

> yes you can print it on anything. its about the easiest printing filament there is. prints as easy as pla, has temp resistance closer to abs and its more durable and flexible than abs. to be honest i have no idea why the 3d printing community, with a lack of heated build chambers, has adopted abs. with pet it really doesnt make much sense. there are a few brands out there. www.madesolid.com has the nicest stuff imo. the extrusion is perfect and prints so easy. colorfabb has another good one but only avail in clear. taulman tglase is good but they seem to have extrusion consistency issues that have yet to get resolved plus it prints just a hair more difficult than the others but still fairly easily. its a bit on the expensive side but i have figured in all the failed abs prints i have here and wasted filament and printer time and energy for those fails and it comes out to be close to a wash. once i got my settings dialed in for it i have yet to have a failure due to the plastic. the stuff is really bad ass.


That PET looks promising, I'd love to see some actual prints with it.

The prints they show on their website all appear to be photoshopped, so it's tough to get a real visual on the filament.

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## jimc

here are some i did. there is another vase on their website that imo is nicer than mine. similar type though done in clear. if you go on there you'll see it.  

IMG_2406.jpgIMG_2694.jpgIMG_2570.jpg

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## RobH2

Nice looking prints. Was the webbed looking thing printed without supports?

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## jimc

yes rob. i popped it off the bed exactly as you see it. was printed with no supports. that was what i originally printed with it to tune my retraction settings. figured that would be a good one lol. those were all done at .15 layer height and a .35 nozzle. with any clear filament, they get clearer the higher the height and the larger dia nozzle you use. the banana is done in their black filament then i did a light cast iron faux finish on it.

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## RobH2

You've given me a good challenge now. I would not have thought that could be printed without some support. Most all of what I print is pretty practical and rectilinear. Sadly, the most interesting things I've printed were a few torture tests in the beginning and once those printed well, I just printed what I needed to and stopped pushing the envelope as much as I should have. It's interesting how we get stuck doing the same old thing sometimes and forget to do some "blue sky" experimenting. I need to do more of that kind of stuff I guess. I get so busy that I don't really start problem solving until I get something to print that doesn't work well on the first pass. It's then that I  find I begin to start tweaking, but not until something has gone wrong. If nothing goes wrong then I don't do much tweaking. It's a vicious circle. 

I did do some bridge torture tests and got some nice 40mm bridges but I need to try to print something like that sphere or vase (whatever it is). That will be a good test as I tune the Pet+ I'll be receiving on Monday. Thanks for the setting hints.

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## Geoff

> yes rob. i popped it off the bed exactly as you see it. was printed with no supports. that was what i originally printed with it to tune my retraction settings. figured that would be a good one lol. those were all done at .15 layer height and a .35 nozzle. with any clear filament, they get clearer the higher the height and the larger dia nozzle you use. the banana is done in their black filament then i did a light cast iron faux finish on it.


Do you find the clear plastic prints more 'clear' if you print faster? I am trying to get mine to look like all the pictures I saw of it advertised, but can't seem to get it as transparent as they did.

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## jimc

Geoff i havent noticed a difference in clarity and speed but as i said in the other post you can increase layer height. The higher the clearer. Also if you have a larger nozzle avail that will give you clearer prints as well. I know some guys that print clear stuff with a .5 nozzle at .3-.45 layer heights and the print dont look nearly as white as mine. The more squished your lines are the more cloudy. Temps will affect this as clarity as well. You want the lowest you can while still getting good layer adhesion. All this will apply to pet and any clear type filament

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## RobH2

Jim, where did you find that vase? You sort of implied Makesolid but I don't see it there or on Thingiverse. I'd like to print it for two reasons, 1. to compare it to your print and 2. because it looks cool and I'll give it to my wife who thinks I spend too much time with this 3d printer thing.

FYI, my Pet+ just came in and I'm printing a torture test as I write.

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## jimc

rob here you go


http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:104694

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## RobH2

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. It's the other one that I was interested in. This is the one I could not believe you printed without support. 

http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...3&d=1396659346

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## jimc

ahhh yes thats the cellular thing. here you go. this is a real popular item on thingiverse. believe it or not i dont think anyone prints it with support no matter what plastic they are using.


http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:19104

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## RobH2

I see, it's a lamp. No wonder I couldn't find it when I searched vases... Thanks. 

First print was rough and separating. When I lifted it off of the glass it unzipped the bottom layer like spooling line out of a box. I'm printing again at higher temp (245C) instead of (230C) to see if the layers stick better. I think I jumped to fast on the temp as it looks globby. I think I'll knock the temp back to 240C. I need to fine tune my retraction too. That's off. But, all in all, it's going OK. I just need to tweak. This stuff has no odor at all. I think I'm going to like it.

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## jimc

yeah rob once you get your setting right it will print great every time. it needs alot of retraction. print and temp settings are very similar to nylon. did you get clear or one of the opaque colors?

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## RobH2

I actually got white. I have some uses in mind for my boat and white is the standard nautical plastic color. 

I printed an open vase thingy that's about 5cm tall. It's actually about 10cm tall but I stopped it as not to waste more plastic. Here are a few prints. As you can see, I have some tweaking to do. The 1st layer looks nice as the bottom is great. It's just globby and messy. 

Pet+_Print_001A_s.jpg Pet+_Print_001B_s.jpg Pet+_Print_001C_s.jpg

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## jimc

yeah from what i can tell you have 2 things going on there. the main thing is with doing something tiny like that your going to get the part very heat soaked. each layer doesnt have enough cooling time. are you using your bed fan? you should use it same as with pla....atleast on small stuff like that. it looks like your pumping out alot of plastic, however this could just be that the model is too hot. nothing to do with the blobs but looks like that 1st layer could be printed just hair closer to the bed. i have found that the opaque colors, atleast the black needs more retraction that the clear stuff. i am running some black right now and here are my settings:

retraction 4.40mm
coasting distance 2.8mm
temp 245. (this is a block style hot end, actual nozzle temp is 225)

be sure to measure the filament and set that right. that could give you lots of blobbing due to over extrusion. i would try a more simple model first to atleast get the stuff extruding correctly then work on the tricky stuff. maybe start with some calibration objects. cubes, cylinders. there is tons of that stuff on thingi.

i do know a thing or two about boats. #1, i hate them, #2 i was a marine mechanic for some years then worked for viking yacht co for quite a few more as both a service tech, engineer and about everything else at that place  :Smile:  of course #1 is a result of #2

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## RobH2

Great feedback. Firstly, boats. I hate them and love them, but, love them more. I have become a marine mechanic out of necessity. I actually delivered a sailboat up the Chesapeake Bay today. It was nice to get out. We've had such a horrific winter. Viking makes some nice large motor yachts. I like how clean and minimalistic the designs are. I can imagine how #1 was a result of #2. I do sailboats and can't get on the water enough and luckily I only have one. 

I read on another forum to NOT use a fan so I'll try your suggestion TO use a fan. My extrusion feed is perfect. If I extrude 20mm of filament, it moves 20.03mm. I think that's close enough so I'll need to look at other causes of blobs. I'll also check my nozzle height so I can smush that first layer in a bit more. It might have risen a bit. I'll go back to a simple calibration model like you mention. I was jumping the gun. I actually did print one of my favorite torture/calibration tests first and it looked pretty good. You can see the retraction is off but for the most part the layers look good and the little 6mm diameter towers look good except for the retraction bits. 

I'll do a new print now and copy your settings as a starting point. I've also posted the same torture test from the same machine with black ABS. So, you can see the machine is capable of very clean prints.

What slicer are you using? I haven't see 'coasting distance' in any of the ones I use (Slic3r, Cura, Kisslicer).

Pet+_Print_000A_resize.jpg Pet+_Print_000B_resize.jpg KISSlicer_TowerTorture.jpg

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## jimc

i use simplify3d. i dont know if the coast setting translates over to any of the other slicers. as for the filament, the fact that it moves 20mm when you have it set to move 20mm is right and that is generally set in the firmware but it can still put out too much on the model it printing. thats all adjusted buy setting your filament diameter and extrusion multiplier. your torture test in the middle does look much better though. it could have been just from the heat. you just need to bump up your retraction. you can see the strings still there. bump your multiplier down a little at a time as well.

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## RobH2

Yea, it took me 2 weeks to get ABS dialed in so I was being overly  optimistic about this new material. But, that was with a new machine I  all of that time was just initial calibration stuff. I'm not too far off  right now. I know, baby steps.

What I'm seeing now is what I call "out of focus." Each successive layer  is not on top of the one before it. I think I'll try a different slicer  and see if it's the machine or the slicer. Here are a few photos of the  issue:

Edit: I can't figure this forum out in regards to photos. Some will  display the size I want them to and other are tiny. These are displaying  too small to really see what I'm saying. I'll attach them again. Sorry  if they are duplicated.

Pet+_Print_[N-2]_01_resize.jpg Pet+_Print_[N-2]_02_resize.jpg Pet+_Print_[N-2]_03_resize.jpg

Edit #2: I think I figured out the photo thing. You have to use .jpg files to get proper display. If you use .png files they get reduced. So far that's the fix.

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## atoff

Looks to be a cost issue... looks to be twice the price of PLA or ABS.   1LB of PET+ vs 2.2LB of PLA for $35.

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## RobH2

I don't see it as an issue as much as just an acknowledgement. Yea, it is more expensive, but it's all relative. But if you put it in perspective, all of these plastics are really cheap. I mean, a part that cost $.65 to print (using the prices you quote) with ABS is now $1.30. Not too bad really as long as the benefits outweigh the small cost increase. 

It's the thing I have to explain to my clients sometimes. We'll settle on a price of say $275 for a particular illustration. That's a fair price for any illustrator who might work 3 or 4 hours on it. And they think so too, but all of a sudden when they need 30 of the same kind of illustration, the total cost is now $8,250. That sometimes scares the crap out of them until they back up and look at the reasonable cost each. 

It's the same here. If you print 25 items out of 1lb of filament that's still just $1.40 each. Especially if you print your coveted phone case that Apple wants $29.95 for. I don't think that's prohibitive. If the parts jumped in price due to filament cost to say $5.00 each, then I think that might scare some people away, but again, that's still cheap too if you keep it in prespective. As long as filament is as cheap as it is, I really don't worry about it too much. It's like saying one gumball is $.10 and another is $.30. That's three times as expensive, but, it's still only $.30. It's all about perspective.

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## atoff

I think it was a mistake to say issue, because no, I agree with what you're saying.  What I should have said, was that it's probably the reason it's not used primarily in place of ABS or PLA.  Many seem to be printing for fun... little knick knacks here and there, and just making random fun little objects in order to play with their printers... so it makes sense to go with the filament that's half the cost.  Why burn through expensive filament when there's no need?   Even when it comes to prototyping something that won't really be used.  

For parts, I think it looks great.  I'll probably be picking some up once I've assembled my printer and have had a chance to get comfortable with ABS / PLA.

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## RobH2

I have some tests now and I'm finding that slicers make a big difference. I was using Cura 14.03 for my initial prints and they weren't looking very good. I tried Slic3r in Pronterface and I'm zeroing in on it now. Even comparing apples to apples, the left image is Cura and the middle image is Slic3r with the same settings. What a difference. The right image is even better as I pulled the Slic3r 'Extrusion multiplier' back to .97 from 1.0. That cleaned up some of what was overshoot on the material as Jim was suspicious of. I'm still getting random odd areas. The funky area under the end of the hands is really sloppy but that could be partly due to the fact that it want some support and I didn't use any to see what would happen. The green arrows point out really nice resolution and extrusion while the red arrow point out problems that need some attention.

But, based on these tests right now, I'll have to say that I like Pet+. I think I'll keep it in my arsenal. I want to print some bars with ABS, PLA and Pet+ and do some bend tests to see how they each fail but Pet+ seems to be a nice material. 


Pet+_Print_[SlicerCompare]_01.jpg 


I'm also getting the random brown or burned looking spots that make a  temporary defect and then it goes away. That happens no matter what  slicer I'm using. I'm not sure what that is. It almost seems like some  filament is getting trapped in the hot end and burning and then at some  point it gets pushed out and makes a flaw. Not sure about that. 

Pet+_Print_[N-2]_burn_1_s.jpg

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## RobH2

atoff, I totally agree with what you are saying. That's part of the fun is that we have so many filaments to pick from to be used for the most appropriate purpose. You are correct though, if you have both ABS and Pet+ and it's something that you don't need to waste your good stuff on, then there's not need to.  

What excites me is that when I bought my Makerfarm i3 last year it was listed as only being able to print ABS and PLA and one of the hot ends would not even print PLA. So, I ordered a 2nd one that could. With the same hot end I'm now printing ABS, PLA, Pet+ and Nylon. All are printing well. I look forward to getting some Filaflex or one of the other flexible filaments next.

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## jimc

atoff, no matter what product in this world we are using there are 2 prices for it. a price to buy it and a price to use it. 99% of the public sees one thing...price to buy it. unfortunately the price to buy something makes no difference. its what it cost to use it that makes a difference. i have a trash can here full of failed abs prints from warping or something else over the last 6mos. since i got my settings all tweaked for the pet+ i have not had a single failure. so the price difference of the pet+ to abs is about a wash if you take all that into acct plus the wasted energy the printer uses, etc. with all that said though, if you dont use the items you print and they are just little knick knacks that sit on a shelf or some other static object then print it with pla. that would definately be cheaper. all my items are functional to some degree so i never print pla. it has always been abs. now i have basically just totally switched to pet and the overall cost hasnt changed much. i will still use abs on occasion if i am looking for a specific color or property that abs can give me.


rob, still looks like a bit too much material. your gettin there though. just keep adjusting and running test prints to see what works. some of that stuff as you said could be from too much overhang with no support. i have not tried the white. i have a roll on the way and will probably be here tomorrow. black and clear i can print flawlessly. i will try the white with the same black settings i use and let you know if its the same.

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## RobH2

Yea Jim I look forward to that comparison of black to white. I'm having strange issues. It dialed my 'Extrusion multiplier' back far enough that the first layers don't touch now so there is too little material flowing but I'm getting globs. I'll do more diagnosing. I am curious how the white prints for you. 

I've checked over everything. Belts are tight, machine is sound, extruder good (when I code a 20mm extrusion, I extrude 20.3mm...so that's good). Fans are going and everything looks good. I keep making small tweaks. I'll eventually get it.

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## jimc

yeah you'll get it. i wish i could be more help but im not familiar with slic3r or any of the other software out there. i have always used s3d since that is what most of the makergear community uses. you can slowly bump your temp down 5deg at a time. i really dont know what kind of ooze control parameters slic3r has to tell you to tweak. from a comparison its oozy like nylon so if your have ver printed nylon, try to mimic those settings.  there are alot of guys on the makergear google group using the pet+. let me see if any of them are using slic3r and ill get back to you.

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## RobH2

I think I've gotten about as good as I can get for now. I think I have a roll of filament with an amount of contamination. I keep getting these "burnouts" in every print. It's like there is a rogue material in the filament that melts at a much lower temperature and when in the hotend it scorches. Then when it is extruded it has much different properties and color and makes a globby, swollen, brown bad spot. I'm going to see if the manufacturer agrees and will replace it. 

Here is a photo of the good results I'm getting so far. This image is also a good demonstration of how "Layer Height" affects resolution. 
Pet+_Print_LayerHeightComparison_s.jpg

Here is a photo of my "burnout" problem. Each of these shots was taken from a different print so it's happening consistently. 
BurnoutProblems.jpg

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## jimc

keep in mind rob this can be prior material in you hot end that is coming out and now that you say that, it does look like it. when we switch plastics in our extruders they dont always mix well together. if you have abs in there and there is a nice coating on the inside of the brass feed tube. when you put a new plastic in that abs is still coating the walls of the tube. as you print that abs sits there cooking for hours on end and it will also harden which makes the hot end tight. it can eventually get tight enough where you get clicking or feed problems. occasionally some dislodges and comes out with the new plastic which is what your seeing there and why it looks all burnt. i switch plastics alot and i do have to clean out my hot end and nozzle often. if you have never cleaned it then im sure your due. before you do anything, pull the nozzle and brass tube off the machine and soak it in a little paint stripper. the methylene chloride will dissolve, pla, pet and abs. basically everything except nylon. let it sit a few hours then rinse, blow out, run a pipe cleaner through the tube, etc.

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## RobH2

Will do Jim. Great suggestion. I don't change filament much but have on occasion over the past few months. I've had no issues like this so I assumed that after a few meters whatever residual old plastic that was in the hotend was pushed out. I didn't realize it could stick around and cook. I'll definitely clean my head and see if I still get the issue. If I do what a newly cleaned head then I know it's the filament.

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## jimc

yes rob most definitely. a few meters wont push it all out all the time. it really depends on the plastic. i even have some issues with a couple rolls of abs here i have. when i go from this one specific color to another of abs and its from the same manufacturer, i will have a problem. really though its just good housekeeping to occasionally clean the hot end. what i am going to do here as soon as makergear releases their new hot end is order one for each plastic type so i can swap real quick. 

just goto home depot and get some zip-strip to soak the metal parts in. no plastic in that please  :Smile:

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## RobH2

You know, I've been thinking about doing that too, getting 3 or 4 heads for the main filaments that I use the most. It makes a lot of sense and it eliminates numerous issues with filament swapping. I'll be picking up some zip-strip this week too. Thanks for the advice.

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## jimc

rob here is the settings for the pet+ with slic3r. the guy that shared this said this is still a work in progress. temp may need to differ for your machine......oh man the forum wont allow me to attach it. send me a pm with an email address and i'll just mail it to you.


Here is the code incase others can use it:

---------------------------------------Begin Paste---------------------------------------

# generated by Slic3r 1.1.1-dev on Tue Apr  8 09:52:20 2014
avoid_crossing_perimeters = 0
bed_size = 200,250
bed_temperature = 70
bottom_solid_layers = 3
bridge_acceleration = 0
bridge_fan_speed = 0
bridge_flow_ratio = 1.25
bridge_speed = 80
brim_width = 0
complete_objects = 0
cooling = 1
default_acceleration = 0
disable_fan_first_layers = 100
duplicate_distance = 6
end_gcode = ; start custom G-code\nM104 S0 ; turn off temperature\nM140 S0 ; turn of HBP\nG91 ; go relative\nG1 Z30 ; drop Z\nM106 S155 ; push bedfan to about 12V\nG90 ; set absolute\nG1 X30 ;  move to left\nG1 Y80 ; move to sensible Y position\nG1 F450 ; set slow speed\nG1 X160 ; move X to end for fan cooling\nG1 X40 ; move X to beginning\nM106 S0 ; disable fan\nG1 F10800 ; high speed\nG1 Y220 ; present parts for removal\nM84     ; disable motors\nM108 S0 ; turn off extruder and electronics fans\n; end custom G-code
external_perimeter_speed = 100%
external_perimeters_first = 0
extra_perimeters = 0
extruder_clearance_height = 20
extruder_clearance_radius = 20
extruder_offset = 0x0
extrusion_axis = E
extrusion_multiplier = 0.9
extrusion_width = 0
fan_always_on = 0
fan_below_layer_time = 60
filament_diameter = 1.75
fill_angle = 45
fill_density = 20%
fill_pattern = rectilinear
first_layer_acceleration = 0
first_layer_bed_temperature = 70
first_layer_extrusion_width = 0
first_layer_height = 100%
first_layer_speed = 30%
first_layer_temperature = 240
g0 = 0
gap_fill_speed = 20
gcode_arcs = 0
gcode_comments = 0
gcode_flavor = reprap
infill_acceleration = 0
infill_every_layers = 1
infill_extruder = 1
infill_extrusion_width = 0
infill_first = 0
infill_only_where_needed = 0
infill_speed = 80
interface_shells = 0
layer_gcode = 
layer_height = 0.25
max_fan_speed = 0
min_fan_speed = 0
min_print_speed = 10
min_skirt_length = 0
notes = 
nozzle_diameter = 0.35
only_retract_when_crossing_perimeters = 0
ooze_prevention = 0
output_filename_format = [input_filename_base].g
overhangs = 1
perimeter_acceleration = 0
perimeter_extruder = 1
perimeter_extrusion_width = 0
perimeter_speed = 60
perimeters = 3
post_process = 
print_center = 100,125
raft_layers = 0
randomize_start = 0
resolution = 0
retract_before_travel = 2
retract_layer_change = 1
retract_length = 1
retract_length_toolchange = 10
retract_lift = 0.8
retract_restart_extra = 0
retract_restart_extra_toolchange = 0
retract_speed = 10
skirt_distance = 3
skirt_height = 1
skirts = 1
slowdown_below_layer_time = 15
small_perimeter_speed = 60
solid_fill_pattern = rectilinear
solid_infill_below_area = 70
solid_infill_every_layers = 0
solid_infill_extrusion_width = 0
solid_infill_speed = 80
spiral_vase = 0
standby_temperature_delta = -5
start_gcode = ; start of custom G-code\nG90 ; use absolute coordinates\nG21 ; set units to millimeters\nG92 E0 ; reset extrusion distance\nM82 ; use absolute distances for extrusion\nM108 S155 ; make sure extruder fan is on\nG28 ; home the axes\nG92 X0 Y0 Z0 E0 ; tell the M2 that we're homed\n; now extrude a bit of filament off the edge and wipe it off\nG1 F5000 Y30 X30\nG1 X220\nG1 F100 E10\n; re-home and reset the zero coordinates\nG28\nG92 X0 Y0 Z0\n; end of custom G-code
start_perimeters_at_concave_points = 0
start_perimeters_at_non_overhang = 1
support_material = 1
support_material_angle = 0
support_material_enforce_layers = 0
support_material_extruder = 1
support_material_extrusion_width = 0
support_material_interface_extruder = 1
support_material_interface_layers = 3
support_material_interface_spacing = 1
support_material_pattern = pillars
support_material_spacing = 2.5
support_material_speed = 60
support_material_threshold = 45
temperature = 240
thin_walls = 1
threads = 4
toolchange_gcode = 
top_infill_extrusion_width = 0
top_solid_infill_speed = 60
top_solid_layers = 3
travel_speed = 300
use_firmware_retraction = 0
use_relative_e_distances = 0
vibration_limit = 0
wipe = 0
z_offset = 0


----------------End Paste------------------

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## Geoff

Totally learn something new everyday in this industry. Ordered some PET today, Transparent, keen to try it now! I don't plan on smoothing so I don't need worry about the meth chloride, would prefer to avoid chemicals if I can.

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## RobH2

Would love to see some photos of that transparent printing. It seems thicker layer sizes gives you clearer prints.

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## Geoff

I just need something that looks more transparent, I mean the stuff I've got now is ok, but it's frosted which is fantastic for diffusing bright lights, but not for other projects.

I printed this lamp shade for a big project, I printed it at 0% infil and 2 shells..

It literally printed 2 walls and thats it, and still its quite frosted. It will work well for the purpose that I printed it for, but it's not really what I thought I was buying, like always the commercial looked better  :Smile: 



And 2 x 0.2mm shells... The inner shell is extremely flexible - this is why I love ABS.

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## RobH2

Hmmm, it looks nice if you want frosted/translucent. It's definitely not clear. What was your layer height? 

There are a lot of uses for frosted parts but I too have some uses for clear prints. I don't think at a RepRap level we'll get glass-clear anything. I'd guess that resin STL will be the only way to get that. The fact that we have hundreds of layer divisions embedded means we have hundreds of refractively dead contact lines. Those add up together to prevent really good transparency. That's just basic physics. But maybe there is something out there that is a little clearer. Other than the fact it wasn't as clear as you'd have liked, did it print nicely? Did you have any printing issues at all?

I still like it though. Thanks for the photos.

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## jimc

geoff, any crystal clear filament we print on fdm printers will come out frosted like that BUT you can get the stuff clearer that what you have there. i have seen some somewhat clear prints on taulman's site and it think they were using a .5 and or a .75 nozzle with very high layer heights. the thinner the layers the more cloudy it will be. pet has more flex to it that abs for sure. i cant tell in your one pic but it looks like your walls arent bonded together. out of curiosity what brand pet did you end up using?

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## jimc

here is some good info to explain. read through this page to help you tweak your setting for clearer prints.


http://www.taulman3d.com/t-glase-features.html

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## kanningphish

I wasn't even aware of PET+.  What would you say is the best use for this stuff over PLA or ABS?

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## jimc

i use it now for everything. pla imo is about worthless for anything that functions so pet+ has higher temp resistance, its stronger and its much more flexible. compared to abs, its stronger, more flexible, a hair less heat resistant and you dont have anywhere near the amt of warp. only time i use abs now is if i need a specific color or i am looking for something a bit more rigid.

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## kanningphish

And, how does the pricing of PET+ compare to ABS and PLA?

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## jimc

read post #34 on page 4.

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## RobH2

Jim, I am so glad you turned me onto PET+. I've been printing pretty large parts for 3 days and not a single failure. They come out great, no warp and are just fantastic. I'm really glad you suggested it to me.

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## DrLuigi

I personaly also like the PETg from Colorfabb,
Its the only PET i used so far but it works nice ^^

XT series so far i know,

Also first time i did my jhead on 240c, i guess i shouldnt put it on 250 tho :P

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## jimc

Thanks rob. It really is nice stuff. I really think that once more people discover it it will become a more standard filament and not a specialty filament. As my abs runs out i know i am replacing with pet. Eventually thats all ill be printing with.

Luigi, i know someone who has been using the xt for awhile and they have good things to say. They did make a change in the formula not long ago. Im not sure why but the person did say its more difficult to use now than it was before the change. I dont know what the change was. I have yet to try it myself. I would like to give it a try just to compare to madesolid's. Made solid has so many colors available now though which is nice. Only so much you can do with clear but i would think that colorfabb is more available in your part of the world.

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## 3DPBuser

So is it true that pet+ has very little odor while printing?

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## RobH2

> So is it true that pet+ has very little odor while printing?


I detect no odor at all. I'm in a small room and never smell anything.

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## jimc

yes no odor at all that i can detect

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## 3DPBuser

And almost no warping, which mean no enclosed chamber needed?

I guess the main drawback is a high temp nozzle, which would require nylon-capable setups.

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## RobH2

I've found that Pet+ "can" warp significantly so I can't endorse the "almost no warping" feeling. I printed a part last week that was 4" wide, 6" long and 2" high and it warped off of the bed a full 1/2" on one corner. But, that's just my experience. I don't have a commercial enclosure but I do have a makeshift one to control envelope heat and keep drafts out. So beware, warping can still be your enemy. 

Fortunately, I don't think you need exotic setups to use the higher temps required. They aren't that much higher. I have a Makerfarm i3 with a basic Magma and JHead. Both heads print Pet+ perfectly. You may need to raise the "overtemp" setting in Marlin/RAMPS so the overheat threashold does not trigger a shutdown. There are posts here in the forum about that so I won't go into it here.

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## jimc

thats a new one rob. very interesting. it does warp but usually about the same amt as pla. i wonder if your bed adhesion method just let loose or had weak bond on that corner. i have printed something of about the same measurements as you had and it stayed 100% locked to the bed. i have no enclosure either but i do heat the bed.\ to about 70c.

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## RobH2

Yea Jim I don't know. I printed it twice. I printed the first one on Borosilicate glass with purple glue stick after good acetone cleaning. I tried it again on window glass with Aquanet. Both warped from the same corner. It could be a function of the part design. I also had a 12 line skirt. I plan to modify it and try it again soon. I'll report back about that.

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## jimc

it sticks well to blue tape. i do get it to stick to hairspray as well but it needs to be a couple real wet coats so its thick. i dont know why i am different than everyone else but i cant get anything to stick to glue stick. it might as well be a wax stick..lol

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## RobH2

Since I read about purple Elmers glue stick it's my best sticking method. It really works well for me except for nylon. I can't get anything to hold nylon 618 down. I've used almost an entire roll and have yet to get a successful print larger than a golf ball. 

I'll try blue tape with Pet+ but the problem I have faced frequently with it is that the plastic sticks to it well and the blue tape actually comes off the glass. So the end result is the same, a floating corner. I suspect part of the problem is the design of my part. I'm going to modify it. I'll try blue tape again and see if it works better for me. Don't get me wrong. I really like Pet+. I'll be using more of it than ABS.

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## jimc

rob, goto someplace that sells autobody supplies. napa would probably even have it but your looking for 3m green tape. not the green stuff in home depot. this is 3m 233+. this is their automotive refinish tape. the tape part is the same as the blue but it has way stronger adhesive, doesnt leave adhesive behind. and with any tape, put it down with a squeegee. for 3d printing on a heated bed this tape is way better.

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## RobH2

Great tip. Consider it done. I'll pick some up tomorrow. So, put it down with a squeegee, not a roller? That's the first I've heard that. I like new techniques.

Thanks...

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## jimc

Anytime you put any type of adhesive film down and you want to do it bubble free and push it down to the surface always use a squeegee. Thats what they are made for. Not a rubber squeegee like you clean glass with. The little plastic ones for installing window tint or sign vinyl. Actually if your getting the tape then look for a small bodyfiller spreader. Its the same thing basically.

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## 3DPBuser

I'm surprised PET has not passed ABS. The beginner people using printers in small rooms or homes where the PET has the odor advantage would seem to be the people who would use the least plastic and thus be bothered the least by the higher PET price.

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## jimc

i personally have no problem at all with the smell of abs. i dont even really smell it at all. the pet+ is great in my book and i also dont understand why its not as wide spread as abs either. maybe in time it will get there.

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## 3DPBuser

Well our printing place would be in an office, with nextdoor offices doing beauty care; they already complain about things cooking, etc.

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## oklok

PEt is ok, however the quality is probably another issue and it all depends what you need to print out. ABS is good for toys, and PLA for medical thnigs, Both are quite cheap, why bother?

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## 3DPBuser

I only print long flat consumer products in black ABS, in an office. So low-oder, and low-warping, are priority.

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## 3DPBuser

So a PET printer needs a fairly high temp hbp, but not necessarily an enclosure?

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## RobH2

> So a PET printer needs a fairly high temp hbp, but not necessarily an enclosure?


The temp required is not outside the range of my typical RepRap printer (Makerfarm i3). Both my .4mm JHead and .5mm Magma (neither are exotic heads) print at 245C nicely. I don't think they will go to 260C or higher but they are fine for Pet+ @ 245C.  As for warping, I've had some issues. It's hit and miss and long, thin objects warp for me. Long and thin parts are a challenge anyway but beware, Pet+ can warp. It may not be as bad as ABS, but it can warp in certain situations. 

I don't have a full high-tech enclosure but I do have foamcor sheets (lined with space blanket film) that I've cut and set around the printer making a box to keep drafts out. I tried to print a part 5 times and it warped 1/2" off of the bed every time. Finally using 65C for the bed I was able to reduce it but never eliminate it. Now I add tabs to the corners to trim off later. I'm now getting perfectly flat and warp-free prints of the part. 

Here is a photo of the part with the tabs. I originally made them long enough so I could put clamps on them to further insure that they didn't' come up. But, @65C and using Aquanet as an adhesive, I'm getting good results. And, I haven't needed to clamp them down. The tabs are 2.5mm thick so they don't tear away from the part. I tried using a dozen rings of a skirt a few times but the part just pulled away from the skirt. These thicker tabs don't pull off. 

Warp.jpg

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## RobH2

Hey Jim, you are the local PET+ expert. Ever glue any? What's a good adhesive for it?

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## jimc

Yes i glue all my plastics with weld-on #4. Its not adhesive, just solvent. You can get it right in amazon with a needle applicator bottle. It works for everything, pla,abs,pet. Nylon is the only plastic you cant solvent bond.

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## RobH2

Thanks Jim   :Smile:

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## oklok

For sure PET is a good alternative to ABS or Taulmans T-Glase, it is very glossy, almost equally and strong as ABS. Food safe to as someone mentioned! YES Correct, but for now the price is still not equal to PLA or ABS.

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## 3DPBuser

Is T-Glase not PET also?

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## jimc

yes it is. there are many different varieties and t-glase is just one of them.

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## oklok

> Is T-Glase not PET also?


Yes as the one above said, there are different T-Glase with different PET material  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## bshadown

But taulmans make only nylon right? Sorry im lost on this one.

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## RobH2

The Weld-on #4 glued the PET very nicely. It's water thin and it wicks. It's like gluing acrylic. It wicks in and sets very quickly. If you are careful and don't drip it everywhere, you can never see it.

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## oklok

> But taulmans make only nylon right? Sorry im lost on this one.


Taulman is just a brad name, they have something called T-Glase which basically is PET material. 
Taulman also have something called NYLON, so total 2 lines.

Basically you can buy other brands, as long it is PET material you will have the so called T-glase. 

Nylon is well Nylon.

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## 3Dimensional

Where are you all ordering PET from?

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## jimc

www.madesolid.com has their pet+, colorfabb has their xt line which is currently just in clear but they have some colors on the way in a couple few months. there is also taulman's t-glase. i have done more printing with the madesolid solid stuff than any of the other by a long shot.

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## RobH2

I use PET+ from Madesolid.com based on Jim's recommendation. I just ordered some T-Glase to test it to see if it's any different. I'll report back if I find anything significant about it.

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## jimc

Rob keep an eye on the extrusion of the tglase. Taulmans stuff is always good but the extrusion dia can be all over the place esp in the tglase. Not sure if they have been able to correct that or not. Just take some measurements and let me know what you find. Im curious.

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## RobH2

Jim, do you mean that it drifts throughout a single spool or that each spool has a different diameter? I'll keep an eye on it and report in. Thanks for the heads-up.

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## jimc

The dia might go from 1.6 to 2mm in the same spool. It will have wide spots and you end up with air prints. It was a big issue with the tglase back when it was released. Not sure about now. It was the reason i didnt try it and went with masesolid. The new colorfabb xt is excellent. I had a sample of the black and it prints super easy, bridges really well and its super strong like a piece of polycarbonate when its done. Just not avail yet.

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## oklok

> Where are you all ordering PET from?



You can buy it at  http://www.3dfilamenta.com  :Wink:

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## Darsonval51

I wasn't even aware of PET+. What would you say is the best use for this stuff over PLA or ABS?

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## ralphzoontjens

PET has a distinct look and feel, other than that it is a perfect alternative for ABS and is less brittle than PLA.
It emits very little fumes and some brands are FDA food-safe approved (T-glase and Guidel!ne for example)

Does anyone have any datasheets for materials that are also FDA approved?

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