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  1. #1
    Super Moderator curious aardvark's Avatar
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    Bottom line out of all the research i've done on a potential new purchased item, 3D printers is by FAR the most confusing and inconclusive as to what exactly will suit my needs
    Yes :-)

    1) This is partly because the 3d printing market changes week on week. I don't think any other tehnical tool has ever had the evolutionary speed of 3d printing.
    2) price point. The cheaper machines change faster as they are all pretty much standard parts and can be chopped and changed almost on a daily basis.

    So the only thing that stands out is that you want to do nylon - presumably also polycarbonate (perfect for rc parts).
    For that you NEED an enclosed and heated print volume.
    With a large I3 - it's possible, but won't ever be ideal.

    Also creality refuse to use direct drive extruders on their i3 designs. Nobody knows why.

    Why that matters.
    With a large i3 a bowden tube will actually be as long as on a decent sized delta. But when you are printing close to the extruder motor, you have a ridiculously tight set of angles to push the filament round - worse than you ever get on a delta - this drastically cuts down on the ability to print flexible filaments and also reduces overall print speed.

    So the first thing I would do if buying a cr-10 (which I would not do lol) is to convert it to a direct drive extruder, mounted on the carriage itself.
    This will significantly speed up your printing and also improve the range of materials you print easily.
    I'd also add side supports for the printbed - fairly easy to do.

    There are some large i3's out there that have the 3 critical prusa i3 design features:
    1) side support rails for the print bed
    2) dual z axis motors
    3) direct drive extruder.
    The cr10 only has dual z-motors.

    Prusa printers win an AWFUL lot of printing awards.
    It's not by accident.

    If you are looking for a decent machine to tinker with, then at least start with those 3 design features: https://www.amazon.com/ADIMLab-Assem...%2C395&sr=8-39

    That's one of the very few decent sized i3's that has them.

    The other way to go, would be a slightly bigger budget and an enclosed machine. The qidi x-plus is about the largest enclosed 'budget' machine around.
    qidi have an excellent reputation, both for build quality and customer service.
    https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-I...s%2C282&sr=8-5

    Why you want a direct drive extruder.
    Flexible PLA.

    Flexible pla is stiffer than tpu ('rubber') filaments and less elastic. But it is very easy to print, stupidly tough and wear resistant and virtually indestructible.
    And it's cheap :-)

    So you can make fairly rigid items from it - crashproof rc body parts for example.
    For any flexible material the shorter the distance and the straighter the path between the extruder and the hotend - the better and faster it will print.
    Nylon is also a very floppy filament.

    Now you can print flexibles with a bowden tube - I do so on my delta. But you have to print really reallly slowly and it's never as good as from a direct drive extruder.

    So in your place I would approach this from an engineering and design point of view - rather than just staring at youtube videos by people who have been paid to give a machine good reviews.

    Despite being offered printers to review by 3 companies so far - none have ever showed up.
    So I am unbiased.

    My opinions are based mainly:
    1) on the design and components of a machine.
    2) on how many people come to this forum with problems with a particular printer.

    Creality are currently so far ahead on the problems front, that even if this forum is still around in 10 years, I can't see anyone else ever coming close.
    Last edited by curious aardvark; 02-17-2020 at 06:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    Yes :-)1) This is partly because the 3d printing market changes week on week. I don't think any other tehnical tool has ever had the evolutionary speed of 3d printing. 2) price point. The cheaper machines change faster as they are all pretty much standard parts and can be chopped and changed almost on a daily basis. So the only thing that stands out is that you want to do nylon - presumably also polycarbonate (perfect for rc parts). For that you NEED an enclosed and heated print volume. With a large I3 - it's possible, but won't ever be ideal. Also creality refuse to use direct drive extruders on their i3 designs. Nobody knows why. Why that matters. With a large i3 a bowden tube will actually be as long as on a decent sized delta. But when you are printing close to the extruder motor, you have a ridiculously tight set of angles to push the filament round - worse than you ever get on a delta - this drastically cuts down on the ability to print flexible filaments and also reduces overall print speed. So the first thing I would do if buying a cr-10 (which I would not do lol) is to convert it to a direct drive extruder, mounted on the carriage itself. This will significantly speed up your printing and also improve the range of materials you print easily. I'd also add side supports for the printbed - fairly easy to do.There are some large i3's out there that have the 3 critical prusa i3 design features:1) side support rails for the print bed2) dual z axis motors3) direct drive extruder. The cr10 only has dual z-motors. Prusa printers win an AWFUL lot of printing awards. It's not by accident.If you are looking for a decent machine to tinker with, then at least start with those 3 design features: https://www.amazon.com/ADIMLab-Assem...%2C395&sr=8-39That's one of the very few decent sized i3's that has them. The other way to go, would be a slightly bigger budget and an enclosed machine. The qidi x-plus is about the largest enclosed 'budget' machine around. qidi have an excellent reputation, both for build quality and customer service. https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-I...s%2C282&sr=8-5Why you want a direct drive extruder. Flexible PLA.Flexible pla is stiffer than tpu ('rubber') filaments and less elastic. But it is very easy to print, stupidly tough and wear resistant and virtually indestructible. And it's cheap :-)So you can make fairly rigid items from it - crashproof rc body parts for example. For any flexible material the shorter the distance and the straighter the path between the extruder and the hotend - the better and faster it will print. Nylon is also a very floppy filament. Now you can print flexibles with a bowden tube - I do so on my delta. But you have to print really reallly slowly and it's never as good as from a direct drive extruder. So in your place I would approach this from an engineering and design point of view - rather than just staring at youtube videos by people who have been paid to give a machine good reviews.Despite being offered printers to review by 3 companies so far - none have ever showed up. So I am unbiased. My opinions are based mainly:1) on the design and components of a machine.2) on how many people come to this forum with problems with a particular printer.Creality are currently so far ahead on the problems front, that even if this forum is still around in 10 years, I can't see anyone else ever coming close.
    Well an update, my eyes are bloodshot from reading and watching vids, and my brain is burnt. I went ahead and bought the ADIMLab Gantry Pro as suggested. I think it will be a good choice for me now and moving forward. The only "possible" issue I've read with a direct drive is the potential for Z axis "wobble" . Probably won't apply to me as my primary usage will be smaller and flatter parts. I'm guessing the Z wobble become more of an issue when you are printing at near max heights. Maybe i'll design a hypotenuse type frame brace. Again thanks for the guidance !

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