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  1. #21
    Student pelgrim's Avatar
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    Well, after all this time, still no response from Chris E. ...

  2. #22
    Engineer-in-Training iDig3Dprinting's Avatar
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    OK, Firstly to declare a conflict of interest. We sell Robox printers etc... We are, apart from that, fully independent from Cel-Robox.

    Our perspective on this is as a support provider (although not for Robox as they prefer to do this themselves). So I don't seek to take one side or the other but it is an independent opinion from our experiences.

    It is not good that you have come away from this whole experience with a bad feeling. But we would like to say, remember that people are people and that it is very unlikely that any mistakes that you feel they have made are the result of some nefarious or underhanded attitude. Companies do not forego good customer support for a quick buck (although it does depend on the business model). So you have to assume that what response you did get was given with a desire to help. We are not involved so this is just an assumption based on human nature and our experience of business.

    As to the question of whether they should have repaired it or told you to buy a new one. It's not really advisable to give advice to customers because they can come back at you - "you said I should do this and it didn't work" (for them). For example if they had advised you to buy a new head you may have discovered that you could have got the old one fixed for 60 and you may have been miffed (you wouldn't have been aware the O ring was going to fail). So this could have gone either way.

    You have to remember that you own the machine, you are the decision maker, it's your responsibility. The manufacturer and seller have responsibilities, which in our experience they are happy to take on, but there is only so much responsibility they can shoulder, and I don't mean from a legal perspective but from a moral perspective.

    So, with respect to the forum, I think that depends on how much a nuisance you were making of yourself. If you were trolling across all threads, regardless of their relevancy to your grievance, then yes it would probably be a good idea to ban you because then you are spoiling it all for everyone else. If you have your own thread then I don't see why they did it.

    So I guess the question is how would you like this to end so that you came away satisfied, then ask yourself the question as to whether that would be a justifiable expectation. I include the last part as it is our experience that people's expectations for what would satisfy them can be sometimes unrealistic; "I want 10 new 3D printers and an all expenses paid trip to Las Vegas". I'm not saying your expectations are not justified by the way.

    Customer support, to a large extent is about managing customer expectations. like everything you can't get it right all the time. If we were to have a take home message it would be that generally people are trying to do their best to help.

    Anyway that's our four pennies worth.

  3. #23
    Student pelgrim's Avatar
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    you got a few assumtions wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting View Post
    It is not good that you have come away from this whole experience with a bad feeling. But we would like to say, remember that people are people and that it is very unlikely that any mistakes that you feel they have made are the result of some nefarious or underhanded attitude. Companies do not forego good customer support for a quick buck (although it does depend on the business model).
    Never said they do.
    I was given the wrong advice, time and again.
    If I was an isolated case, you could indeed doubt that.
    Just stroll on the CEL forum, you will discover there is at least one individual at their help desk that gets it wrong on a regular basis.
    As far for their business model, they do very questionable things.
    Let users do open source work in their free time and not intervening.
    Then just "oops" dropping all compability with that work done where there was no reason to do so: work down the drain.
    I'm not talking about myself here, I refused to do any work until I got the support from CEL, which we of course never got.
    Making a quick buck seems exactly the way they are going for the last 6 months, their latest products show that clearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting View Post
    As to the question of whether they should have repaired it or told you to buy a new one. It's not really advisable to give advice to customers because they can come back at you - "you said I should do this and it didn't work" (for them).
    1. they didn't give me the option to buy a new print head, you can bet on it because they are for some obscure reason without new print heads for 6 months now or so
    2. support stated themselves AFTERWARDS, when the damage was done, that this seal breaking was nothing more then natural, because the print head was way out of life expectancy.
    Answer me honestly: do you ask a customer to repair part that is long past it's end of life ?

    Quote Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting View Post
    You have to remember that you own the machine, you are the decision maker, it's your responsibility. The manufacturer and seller have responsibilities, which in our experience they are happy to take on, but there is only so much responsibility they can shoulder, and I don't mean from a legal perspective but from a moral perspective.
    does not fit the philosophy they pretend with their marketing: just print out of the box, robox does it all for you, no knowledge required.
    You could not expect some good advise from support, if you market this way, you MUST advise your customer.
    Go repair your car, you will get GOOD advise from your local dealer, it will not be "your the owner, we leave it all up to you".

    Quote Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting View Post
    So, with respect to the forum, I think that depends on how much a nuisance you were making of yourself. If you were trolling across all threads, regardless of their relevancy to your grievance, then yes it would probably be a good idea to ban you because then you are spoiling it all for everyone else. If you have your own thread then I don't see why they did it.
    I defended my case in an orderly fashion, they refused to take any kind of responsibility, so when they begin to loose face, they ban you.
    I'm not the first.

    Quote Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting View Post
    So I guess the question is how would you like this to end so that you came away satisfied, then ask yourself the question as to whether that would be a justifiable expectation. I include the last part as it is our experience that people's expectations for what would satisfy them can be sometimes unrealistic; "I want 10 new 3D printers and an all expenses paid trip to Las Vegas". I'm not saying your expectations are not justified by the way.
    LOL
    I asked them for a reasonable compensation for their mistakes, in those exact words.
    Never got an offer ...

    But what I expected was very reasonable:
    - compensate the 60 wrongly spend on repairing an end of life part
    - perform an inspection of my printer since some damage was done, explicit on their advice and executed exactly as they asked, with photo's given to support on each step.

    If they would have done this I would have been happy buying a new print head when they finally have them back on their shelves.
    In stead they went deaf and banned me.
    Just banned ?
    No, they closed all channels, also support, I have no way of contacting them anymore, since I don't live in the UK.

    Justifiable expectations ?
    Curious what you think of it and if you would agree with this yourself when you run a support team that had this experience.

    They would still have a happy customer that advocates their product, like I did for the last 3 years.
    Right now I advice everyone I know to stay away from robox.
    Being connected to a fablab, this counts for something. Not much, but every bit helps, right ?

  4. #24
    Engineer-in-Training iDig3Dprinting's Avatar
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    I don't know whether we would have compensated you for the print head, that kinda depends whether we thought you should repair it or buy a new one and really we are a shop so we tend to sell components; "Your print head doesn't work, buy a new one". But we run a different business. I think if we did do repairs we would have probably offered you both options, although the fix may have been very straight forward so they may have thought it was the simplest option. On balance, I think probably I wouldn't have offered compensation for this, but that is a personal experience and given not being part of the conversation.

    When it comes down to users doing there own work, we would notify them that it would invalidate any warranty that existed and that they did so at their own risk. If they insisted we would provide guidance if we could. However we don't do repairs ourselves per se, we are a shop as I said so our case is a bit different. But we would certainly have expected them to follow this strategy. We would certainly never advise that a customer does their own work. I am surprised they suggested you did do your own work. That has to be a "on your head be it" scenario as you have no idea as to people's competency levels; "I didn't have a screwdriver so I got the side panel off with a hammer". I think with this aspect though, if it was something we had asked you to do (although I seem to remember you saying they offered to bring it in and do it for you (??????)), there are some circumstances in which I could see that we would have brought it in to rectify.

    It's a shame this all went wrong for you. Maybe a more robust communications strategy is required by Cel-Robox. I would guess that your only hope now is that they are learning from this experience and applying that to there support. I think for you it sounds like you are not going to get any further, they have decided to close your support ticket. Basically "you're wearing trainers and you ain't getting in". Having said that, if you're not from the UK you may not understand the last comment, it's to do with nightclubs.

    Now go and print something, if you still have a 3d printer that is. It's very relaxing watching them print for some unknown reason.

  5. #25
    Student pelgrim's Avatar
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    nope, since lets say 4 months or so I'm without a working printer and no options to get what I need.
    Everything else is already said.

  6. #26
    Engineer-in-Training iDig3Dprinting's Avatar
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    Not so good. Why don't you have a go at building a 3D printer, it's great fun.

  7. #27
    Student pelgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting View Post
    Not so good. Why don't you have a go at building a 3D printer, it's great fun.
    very simple: I'm using my time to build other things, mastering to build a 3D printer is not on my wish list, too much time would be lost.

  8. #28
    Student pelgrim's Avatar
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    still no solution, CEL still didn't do anything to correct their errors.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator curious aardvark's Avatar
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    'and some fell on stoney ground'.

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