Projet 1200 - FTX Cast Burnout Tests

[tato887]

hi i buy a projet 1200 and iam trying to use to cast some pice but i cant how can i do sorry my english is not to good but i need help
another thing that hapend to my is that the cartiged broke insede the projet and now i am having problems printing new pices

[bford903]

To cast the material from the Projet, you'll need phophate-bonded investment (investment used for casting platinum). It comes with the powder and the binder for mixing.

1. Weigh the appropriate amount of powder and binder for your flask size. Instructions should come with the investment.

2. Mix and vacuum. (Ideally you'll want a mixer that will pull a vacuum and mix at the same time, but it's not required.) *NOTE* Platinum investment rises very high in the vacuum and may spill over. I recommend wrapping masking tape around the top edge of mixing bowl and flask to prevent spillage.

3. After mixing and vacuuming, pour mixed investment into the flask and vacuum again to remove as much air as possible.

4. Let flask sit undisturbed for about 20-30 minutes. You'll notice that as the investment is curing, heat is produced and at the end of the 30 minutes the flask will be hot and steaming.

5. Immediately put the flask in the oven preheated to about 1700 degrees Fahrenheit and leave for about 1.5 hours. (Rapid-burnout technique works with 3D-printed resins because it heats the resin so quickly it does not have a chance to expand and damage the mold. Gypsum-bonded investments will not work using rapid-burnout technique.)

6. Ramp down to casting temperature, about 800-900 degrees Fahrenheit, and leave for about 30 minutes.

7. Cast normally using a centrifugal casting machine. If you're using a pour vacuum caster, you'll need to scuff up the closed side of the flask a little to allow the air to flow through before pouring.

8. After cooling to point where you can handle the flask, I typically use a hammer to break the large chunks of investment away and use a Platinum Investment Devesting Solution to remove the rest. Quenching will not work. Make sure you have adequate ventilation before using devesting solutions.


If your cartridge broke inside the machine, you'll need to clean it thoroughly before printing. If you're still having trouble printing after cleaning, you may need a replacement machine. I would contact the people you purchased the machine from for further instructions if the machine will still not print after cleaning.

A few tips for working with FTX Cast:
1. To cast with FTX Cast, make sure the piece is thoroughly cured before investing. I typically have to cure the material for 6-10 cycles before it's fully cured. Uncured resin will cause porosity in the casting.
2. Add your own supports to the piece in the CAD software to make removal of the supports easier. The auto-generated supports are very thick and can break the piece after it's printed.
3. The cartridges for the FTX Cast are awful. Put some electrical tape around the seam of the film on the bottom of the cartridge to prevent leakage.

My recommendation would be to use the FTX Green material and use the above method for casting. The FTX Green produces very high-definition models that print very well and are suitable for rubber molds as well. I make rubber molds directly from the 3D-printed piece when the situation calls for it and it works very well.

Using FTX Cast, 60-70% of my prints are failures. They keep sticking to the bottom of the glass and the piece breaks during printing. Difficult material to work with.

Good luck and feel free to contact me if you ever need any help.

[tato887]

thanks very much for your help i really appreciate your answer , i will buy Kerr Platinite, 36 KG Drum to try what are you saying to me .
when i cast some pice i will post
what brand of investment you recomend to me to cast with the projet 1200

thanks again

[bford903]

I was using an investment called Whip Mix Formula 1 which is typically used in dental applications.

[bford903]

Rant incoming

I finally had a little spare time to resume testing yesterday so I made a few prints using a relatively simple band with some engraving bits on it. First print had five rings stacked together on the build platform and the second print had only one. I used the Auto-Supports generated in the software. First one printed but I wouldn't call it usable. There were too many on the build platform and they kinda fused together. Second printed but had some weird issues. Missing spots randomly peppered throughout the piece.
mms_img1999644911.jpg
Here it is in the software before printing. (Notice the supports in the program, and the same supports on the actual piece. Big difference.)
PrintTest.jpg


This morning I came in to resume testing. Checked the machine before starting and found this:
mms_img1273807451.jpg

Caused by...
mms_img-62897976.jpg

You can see where the film has separated from the cartridge. This has been a common occurrence with this new material and the cartridges. I believe this is happening during printing as a lot of my failed prints end up firmly stuck to the bottom of the vat. I think the piece gets stuck to the flim and tears it from the cartridge as the build platform lifts up causing the resin to leak out. As usual, 3D Systems says it's my fault by not loading the cartridges correctly and failing to clean the machine regularly.

I'm done with this material. Failed prints 60-70% of the time. Leaking cartridges. Extended cleanup of your piece from the mammoth-size supports required to get a decent print. Mucho-extended curing times if you want any hope of a good casting. Failed castings 60-70% of the time. The whole purpose of this material was to make burnout easier, and from what I've seen, it's just not there yet. As far as my testing goes, I've seen all I need to.

Verdict: FTX Cast is a waste of time and money and anyone who has the Projet 1200 should stay away from it for all the reasons I stated above. If you have a Projet 1200, use FTX Green and make rubber or silicon molds from the printed pieces. Or, if you are already set up for platinum casting, print with FTX Green and cast using phosphate-bonded investments with the rapid burnout technique. This method should get you high-quality prints and castings from your Projet.

[G.EVE]

Been having issues with incomplete prints. Random areas seem to be delaminating. Seems like it's sticking to the bottom. Not sure why this is happening or how to fix it. This is occurring to more than half of my prints. Large or small supports don't seem to make any difference. There doesn't seem to be any way of changing things like print speed, layer thickness, etc. in the software. Not sure what to do.

Attachment 5856


EDIT: No updates on software or firmware recently that would have caused it.

hi
you can try magic and fix your naked edge or anything else that may cause if fail //// maybe its not bolin

[bford903]

hi
you can try magic and fix your naked edge or anything else that may cause if fail //// maybe its not bolin

Magic, eh? Been a while since I talked to the coven. I wonder if they still have my wand...

Pretty sure there aren't any naked edges or bad surfaces on the model. Usually, if there's a bad surface or naked edge on the model, the problem areas occur in the same spot every print, in the vicinity of the bad surface or naked edge. I don't think that's it but I will double-check with a few third-party programs just to make sure.

Bolin? Do you mean Boolean? Yes I used the Boolean Union command in Rhino to make the model into one watertight mesh for printing.

[Tigra]

Hi guys,

The thread seems to be a bit old but maybe there are any news on the matter? I am having trouble with casting both FTX green and Green Cast. The cartridge is extremely fragile, that's true and I do had issues with prints breaking off but seems that manually placed thik supports do the trick, at least for the rings.

I used plasticast and formula 1. Formula seems to give an ok quality but quite difficult to remove. I cannot get the plasticast going so far. Still bad surface and ash. Bfrod900 - you've managed to get quite decent surface on one of the pictures, can you tell a bit more the details on how you've managed to do that if it is not too much trouble?

Another question, I've heard form a caster that he vaccums the flasks after the burnout to remove any residual ash, what do you think, will it help?

By the way I have noticed that thin patterns like nets and thin rings come out nearly fine but if there is more of the material it will ruin the cast. I guess it has to do with expansion and curing both.

[awerby]

If there is residual ash, then yes, vacuuming will help by removing some of it. But a resin used for casting needs to burn out completely, leaving no residues. If there is some, then you're either not getting the mold hot enough or using an unsuitable resin. Be careful about doing this, by the way. If you suck up hot particles from a super-heated mold, there's a good chance it can start a fire in your vacuum cleaner, which the forced air will quickly accelerate into a raging inferno.

If the thin parts of your casting are coming out well but the thick parts are not, it might be due to shrinkage and not the fault of the resin. Make sure the thick parts of your model are connected by a thick sprue to a substantial pour-cup or riser, so the solidifying metal has still-liquid metal to draw from.

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

[bford903]

Hi guys,

The thread seems to be a bit old but maybe there are any news on the matter? I am having trouble with casting both FTX green and Green Cast. The cartridge is extremely fragile, that's true and I do had issues with prints breaking off but seems that manually placed thik supports do the trick, at least for the rings.

I used plasticast and formula 1. Formula seems to give an ok quality but quite difficult to remove. I cannot get the plasticast going so far. Still bad surface and ash. Bfrod900 - you've managed to get quite decent surface on one of the pictures, can you tell a bit more the details on how you've managed to do that if it is not too much trouble?

Another question, I've heard form a caster that he vaccums the flasks after the burnout to remove any residual ash, what do you think, will it help?

By the way I have noticed that thin patterns like nets and thin rings come out nearly fine but if there is more of the material it will ruin the cast. I guess it has to do with expansion and curing both.

With FTX Cast, you have to cure, and cure, and cure, and then cure some more. It will turn from a light-green shade to white with a hint of pink. Sometimes I would have to run 6-10 cycles in the cure chamber. Larger pieces are hit-or-miss but smaller pieces cast better after extended curing. I think the reason is FTX Green is relatively transparent so the piece cures inside and out, while the FTX Cast is more opaque leaving uncured resin inside the piece. Don't know, but that's my theory.

When you mix the Plasticast, make it as thick as possible. Not too thick where it sets early or won't pour, but as thick as you can make it. This will increase the strength.

I tried using air duster to blow out the ash residue before casting, but you need to make a separate sprue for the ash residue to escape or it just blows around in there. It helped with the bad surfaces a little, but I was nervous about blowing cold air on a hot mold. Plus, an escape-hole sprue requires extra metal which costs money.

I've gone back to using FTX Green and making rubber molds from the prints.