Reflections on the Hostage situation in Sydney Australia

[3dprintboard]

Australians admit 1 in 5 have a mental illness. In America no one is mentally ill... We're all insane, or all creative geniuses - take your pick.

Sorry to hear of both tragedies. Oz makes it hard to be an illegal alien. USA makes it easy.

Used to live in Neutral Bay & Surfers Paradise. Used to Live in London, so as an American I see all sides, just don't become as insane as America.

[steved1]

In Texas, somebody in that coffee shop would have had a Concealed Carry License. This wouldn't have turned into a hostage situation.

Yah think? How did the concealed Carry license assist in the cinema shooting .........and all the many, many other incidents in the US? Have not actually heard much about "people save by someone with a CCL" If some untrained individual did start shooting on there own behalf who knows the outcome? Seems for some reason you think the outcome may have been a good one.......is that your prediction.......based on.........? If it had been in the US the idiot would have done in with a military automatic, some homespun hero without proper training takes a potshot at the gunman the gunman comes back with an AR15 and empties 150 rounds or in vey quick succession. We end up with 25 fatalities and 5 injured........that's my prediction.

We have good gun laws and leave it to professionals. Ended up sadly with two dead not including the Nutter. And you argue the US approach is better?

[Roxy]

Yah think? How did the concealed Carry license assist in the cinema shooting .........and all the many, many other incidents in the US?

Ya... I do think that... You don't seem to have done any work to get the facts straight and to understand the situation.

• First, Texas is like its own little country. The mentality here is different than in other parts of the USA. What might work well here may or may not work well other places. And vice versa.
• You don't get a Concealed Carry license by sending in 3 box tops and a self addressed envelope. There is serious classwork about the laws, defusing situations with non-lethal force and a competency test. The people with Concealed Carry licenses pretty much know what they are doing, and they most likely know and understand how to use the weapon they are carrying.
• The 'Cinema Shooting' that made all the news happened in Colorado. It turns out Colorado has a Concealed Carry License available for it's citizens. But that particular movie theater had its area posted as a No Gun zone. So, to your point, there were no law abiding citizens there with guns to assist. And as a result, the perpetrator got away with what he intended.

Now... Just for fun, lets talk about Chicago. Chicago has some of the toughest gun control laws anywhere. But strangely, Chicago has the highest murder rate anywhere. The only places with a higher murder rate are places like Mexico City, Brazil, and Baghdad. How can that be? With guns outlawed, certainly the problem just goes away, right?

Or maybe... Just maybe... that makes all of the citizens of Chicago 'soft targets'. The outlaws... The ones with guns (because guns are outlawed), know the citizens don't have guns and have no way of protecting themselves from people with guns. Perhaps... Just maybe, that emboldens the outlaws. And you get that kind of murder rate?????

[old man emu]

It would be interesting to compare the rates of "Stranger" murders in places that have strict gun laws with those where gun possession is less restricted.

I have to make the distinction between murders committed by persons who have no relationship with the victim and those murders committed in what might be called "domestic relationships". In Australia, very few murders are committed using firearms, and the majority of those that are committed with firearms would fall into the class of "Stranger" murders - most often drug supply related.

I'll throw in another bone to chew.

The image that the USA projects to the world is one of a very violent society where resolution of conflict comes from the barrel of a gun. Media reports of incidents are a very small part of this projection. It appears that the USA culture imbues its people with an acceptance of violence from the time a child emerges from the cradle. I find that a great number of cartoon programs in the children's TV categories are very violent. To these can be added programs with human actors such as the Marvel Comics franchise. Then there is the adult television area. Just check how many times firearms are used to resolve situations in the US crime genre. If you compare that to English and Australian crime shows, you would think that any firearms seen in programs from the latter two countries would be blocked with rust due to lack of use. Also, the story lines of computer games are almost totally centred on the use of violence or other unlawful activities.

While the right to freedom of speech is to be defended, that right comes with heavy responsibilities. Let a scriptwriter produce a story for visual or digital media, but make him take responsibility for the effects of his story on society. You might raise the point of Free Will exercised by the user of the story. But what happens when that Free Will has been molded by years of exposure to media violence? Two Policemen sitting in their patrol car get blown away by someone who believes that the use of violence is the justifiable way to exercise freedom of expression.

Old Man Emu

[Roxy]

Two Policemen sitting in their patrol car get blown away by someone who believes that the use of violence is the justifiable way to exercise freedom of expression.

Agreed there is too much violence on TV and in comic books. That definitely desensitizes people to violence and helps train them to use guns as a solution to their problems.

But what happened to those two police officers was not an expression of free speech. It probably has much more to do with people not believing the police are their friend and there to protect them. When people start using phrases like "Hands up! Don't shoot!" and "I can't breath!" as a rally call, perhaps there is something else going on.

Hey! I have an idea! How about the police lead by example? If they want everybody to lay down their guns and not use violence, how about the police take the first step and they all go on duty without firearms? My guess is they would say "We don't want to be vulnerable like that." But of course, they don't care if the average citizen is vulnerable like that because of gun control laws. Right?

Here is a bonus question for you: In the Sydney Coffee Shop Hostage situation... We can't ask the two that died rushing the crazy person. But probably we know how they would answer this next question. Let's just stick with the survivors. Did any of the survivors wish they had a 'Concealed Carry License'? My guess is half of them would say they wish they had one and if one was available, they would go get one now.

[old man emu]

I am going to close this thread, not because I want to stifle anyone's opinions, but I think the topic has run its course.

I also get a feeling in my water that people are getting a bit hot under the collar. and I don't want to be the spark in the powder keg.

Old Man Emu