Help! noob in over his head with new ("used") Tenlog TL-D3-pro setup :-(

[minneapolis-matt]

You just need to download a bunch of slicers and have a play with them all and then learn to use the one that makes most sense to you.

ouch. definitely not a truth I wanted to hear.All right then. If I am going to be trying a bunch of slicers I sure as hell need some kind of systematic approach.I need to know which parameters to start adjusting from defaults first and I need to know which models are best for adjusting those. For a new slicer top of the parameter list would have to be anything that guarantees adhesion so that I can then move onto other parameters that require evaluation of test prints. Could you help me make a short list of adhesion parameters and how to guess a very conservative sticky value for each of them on a new slicer?After that I'd probably want to have some sort of ranked list and description of the most important parameters to dial in on the new slicer.Absent something like that I can't fathom how someone could expect to even print anything with a new slicer let alone play with a bunch of them. Is there something I am not getting?

[minneapolis-matt]

On my printers I like to set the Z height a little high with the probe and then compensate with a negative Z offset in the slicer. I do this to the tune of up 3mm. And I do this so that if there is filament hanging down from the nozzle it will not push down on the build plate before the sensor gets triggered.

We can argue that with good start gcode we might warm the extruder before we home at the start of a print but sometimes we just want to home while we are servicing our rigs. And either way this method just creates a safe zone for the glass or other more delicate build surfaces we really dont want to grind the nozzle into.

I do this with my Big Red printer with the BLTouch. Even with that probe there is enough of a window between the probe hanging and retracted to do this. I can get a little less with the cheap ebay inductive probes and an aluminum bed.

Optical sensors by design are incredibly friendly to doing this as the flag can always pass right through the sensor. With the above options there is a limit to doing this that is based heavily on the stow/deploy distance difference or the height from the build plate in which the other sensors read.

Can anybody translate this earlier post into noob speak for me? Trying to self educate with google just get me gems like this:

me: "What is a Z probe?"Google: "Product Details. The Z-Probe is a detachable component that simplifies finding your z-axis work zero position when setting up a carve. This kit includes a precision touch disc and a spindle clip to create an electrical connection when the bit touches the disc. It is fully integrated with X-Controller and Easel." - which turns out to not even be directly related to slicers.

or I find 3d printing related reddit discussions which seem to imply, without directly explaining, that a z probe detects the z axis height of...the nozzle I guess? Anyway, some kind of dumbed down translation would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Martin_au]

Can anybody translate this earlier post into noob speak for me? Trying to self educate with google just get me gems like this:me: "What is a Z probe?"Google: "Product Details. The Z-Probe is a detachable component that simplifies finding your z-axis work zero position when setting up a carve. This kit includes a precision touch disc and a spindle clip to create an electrical connection when the bit touches the disc. It is fully integrated with X-Controller and Easel." - which turns out to not even be directly related to slicers.or I find 3d printing related reddit discussions which seem to imply, without directly explaining, that a z probe detects the z axis height of...the nozzle I guess? Anyway, some kind of dumbed down translation would be appreciated. Thank you!

There's a variety of Z-probes. On most printers they are permanently mounted just to the side of the nozzle. The BL-Touch is a good example of one (mechanical based), or the Prusa PINDA (induction based). They are used in place of a z-limit switch.

I don't think your printer has one, and what Autowiz would be describing is the Z-limit switch. Using his technique you'd home the printer (so the Z-limit switch was activated and Z = 0), but then set the bed a millimeter or so below the nozzle. Then use the slicer to adjust the bed a bit closer.

This technique only works if you have a limit switch/Z-probe that the printer can travel past. I don't like this technique as I feel the starting bed distance should not be defined in a slicer profile. I'd prefer it to be set at the printer (e.g., Marlin's babysteps), so that it can be adjusted directly.

[AutoWiz]

But I can still adjust my babysteps directly as Martin said. I just now have another layer I can do that with. The slicer software is a necessary evil. We have to use it. And that feature is there. To say you don't like or want to use it is weird because you will have to use a slicer to get to each and every print. And that slicer can never be universal to many printers. It must always be custom taylored in it's setting for your specific printer. So then it shouldn't bother you to add this feature in your slicer. It is a positive offset we are dealing with so there is never a chance this could lead to the touchy touchy between the nozzle and bed. In fact this method protects against just that.

This method allows for homing with cold filament hanging from the nozzle. So many of us are so careful to make sure in our start Gcode we warm the extruder before we home just because of this. hot filament oozes and cold filament hanging from the nozzle can push the bed down or the nozzle up before the Z sensor is tripped. I can't believe I am the only one who has experienced this. Anyways now I can home without heaters and do not care about what is hanging from the nozzle. My z offset in S3D is -2.95mm and that amount is why I love the BLTouch over the inductive pickups. There is a greater margin of error. We all have our own ways. I spend a lot of time playing with my robots when they are not printing. So this feature is cool for me to have.

But to be honest I fail to see how it will impact your first layer adhesion issues. Have you tried a thicker first layer? Like 0.3mm? And slowing down your first layer print speed or increasing your first layer extrusion multiplier? I ask because if you look close at some of your prints you can see the texture of the glass bed. This texture has a depth to it. And if your filament layer is close enough to or thinner than the depth of this texture or if your nozzle is moving so fast it does not allow proper time for the melted fiament to seep down the depth of the texture as it passes.

For instance if the depth of that texture is 0.1mm and you are printing with a 0.2mm layer height than you can understand how you might have better squish on half of the texture and reduced squish everywhere the texture drops low. I know your texture is not that deep I am just making an example. Thicker layer heights help greatly on first layers with textured surfaces. And I still think you should be working with an alcohol wiped bed that is cleaned a second time with a fresh paper towel and then wiped with distilled white vinegar as the bed warms. Wiped well but while the printer is warm so it doesnt stay on the bed and evaporates. That very thin invisible film that gets left behind is the only medium you will ever need to get PLA to adhere to glass.

[Martin_au]

But I can still adjust my babysteps directly as Martin said. I just now have another layer I can do that with. The slicer software is a necessary evil. We have to use it. And that feature is there. To say you don't like or want to use it is weird because you will have to use a slicer to get to each and every print. And that slicer can never be universal to many printers. It must always be custom taylored in it's setting for your specific printer.

A couple of reasons why I don't like it. First reason you could almost call "aesthetic", but I generally don't like having two parameters for one adjustment. The other reason is far more relevant. The Z-Offset applies the correction across the entire G-code (at least in PrusaSlicer. Not sure about other slicers). Because my machines are broadly similar (very different mechanicals, but similar extruder/hotend), I can and often do use the same Gcode across printers. Worst case my be I need to change a small part of the start Gcode. Third reason is pretty minor and uncommon but in the event I need to rescue a print by restarting it at the right height, then it's much simpler to get the right layer if the 'bed to completed layer' distance matches the gcode.

So then it shouldn't bother you to add this feature in your slicer. It is a positive offset we are dealing with so there is never a chance this could lead to the touchy touchy between the nozzle and bed. In fact this method protects against just that.

Doesn't it only protect against that if you have some hard-stops in place? If you set an incorrect value in the slicer couldn't it still hit the bed (assuming no hard stops)?

[AutoWiz]

A couple of reasons why I don't like it. First reason you could almost call "aesthetic", but I generally don't like having two parameters for one adjustment. The other reason is far more relevant. The Z-Offset applies the correction across the entire G-code (at least in PrusaSlicer. Not sure about other slicers). Because my machines are broadly similar (very different mechanicals, but similar extruder/hotend), I can and often do use the same Gcode across printers. Worst case my be I need to change a small part of the start Gcode. Third reason is pretty minor and uncommon but in the event I need to rescue a print by restarting it at the right height, then it's much simpler to get the right layer if the 'bed to completed layer' distance matches the gcode.Doesn't it only protect against that if you have some hard-stops in place? If you set an incorrect value in the slicer couldn't it still hit the bed (assuming no hard stops)?

Well buddy maybe if you got away from the general Gcode you could get better quality out of your prints? Or better performance out of your machines. I mean them be the implications of your comment there about very different mechanicals running the same gcode extruder/hotend aside, ya know? The more specific we tune, calibrate, and slice for our specific machines the better we get. Wouldn't you agree?

And while it is always possible to wreck our robots. This is a pretty good method. When you home it never drops to the bed. It always will keep this height. Until it actually starts to print. Then it will drop down to the bed height. It is hard to imagine this as being a risk of crashing the nozzle into the bed.

[minneapolis-matt]

So far i operate 3d printers entirely by opening slt files with slicers, modifying printer parameters immediately prior to slicing and then loading the slicer generated file into the printer for execution there. I have no direct gcode interaction. Are 3d printer operators handicapped by not directly dealing with gcode?

[AutoWiz]

So far i operate 3d printers entirely by opening slt files with slicers, modifying printer parameters immediately prior to slicing and then loading the slicer generated file into the printer for execution there. I have no direct gcode interaction. Are 3d printer operators handicapped by not directly dealing with gcode?

Oh God I hope not. Although if so it wouldn't surprise me. But it would benefit you to be able to look at it and understand it. It is incredibly simplistic. Beyond simplistic. If you looked at a few Gcode files and understood the commands to make a bunch of straight lines to make an image you would have a much better understanding about programs out there like Arc Welder and how they can greatly reduce the amount of Gcode, print time, and even clean up print quality. And to Martin's credit the Z offset I am describing in the slicer will also sink the picture of the print preview a touch below your bed in the slicer. This does not affect the print at all but it makes it so like you wont see the raft or skirt because it is below the surface of the bed in the slicer picture. So to be fair I am not describing perfection that needs to become a standard but rather just a specific workaround that if you are not having the specific problem for you would probably do better to just ignore.

Are you using PrusaSlicer? I am familiar with PrusaSlicer and S3D. I really prefer S3D today but I always use PrusaSlicer for multi material prints. If you are using PrusaSlicer we can compare settings for your first layer stuff.

[Martin_au]

Well buddy maybe if you got away from the general Gcode you could get better quality out of your prints? Or better performance out of your machines. I mean them be the implications of your comment there about very different mechanicals running the same gcode extruder/hotend aside, ya know? The more specific we tune, calibrate, and slice for our specific machines the better we get. Wouldn't you agree?

That's kinda the point. Because my machines are carefully calibrated, I can transfer gcode between them. This is not something I do as a matter of course, but is a useful option in the event that one machine needs maintenance when I need something printed.

None of this really matters in this thread though, as we have no certainty as to whether the Tenlog can go below it's Z-switch. It may be able to but I suspect sticking with the more commonplace techniques is the best course of action.

[Martin_au]

So far i operate 3d printers entirely by opening slt files with slicers, modifying printer parameters immediately prior to slicing and then loading the slicer generated file into the printer for execution there. I have no direct gcode interaction. Are 3d printer operators handicapped by not directly dealing with gcode?

Generally no, with one big exception.
There's rarely reason to crack open the gcode in a text editor. Some of the rare and minor exceptions that I've encountered are:
• If you realise you've sliced for a different filament and still want to use the gcode. If you know your settings and how the slicer handles things like fan speed, you can open it up and change it to suit. This doesn't work if filaments have different extrusion multipliers, or other things embedded in the actual movement codes.
• If you're uncertain what printer/settings a particular gcode was generated for you might open it up and take a look.
• If you have a major print fail at a particular height due to a filament jam, you may be able to determine the layer, and cut the correct section from the gcode file and restart the print.

These are all pretty advanced use-cases though, so not to worry about at this stage.The major exception where it is useful to understand a bit of gcode is setting your start and end gcodes in the slicer. This isn't something to worry about yet though. This is something you pickup as you go. The default profile will likely be fine.