Looking for an answer from experienced people & possible partnership

[kubikdanon]

Hello guys,

I've just recently came into 3D printing world, and got few questions:
1. If I have completed 3d model in 3dmax/c4d format (e.g. I bought it from https://www.turbosquid.com), can I print it?
2. If so, what printer would you suggest?
3. If someone's already got printer, PM me or skype me(kubikdanon) so we can talk about details. Basically I need someone who can 3d print car models and have experience in it.

Thank you guys in advance!

[ralphzoontjens]

1. Yes - 3Dmax can export .obj files. With Meshlab you can convert these to Stl's ready for your slicer.
2. Depending on your budget I recommend either an Ultimaker 2, Lulzbot TAZ or Wanhao i3.
3. I am sending you a PM

[CarterTG]

Not all 3D models are constructed the same. Depending on the creator, some were destined ONLY for visual effects where the model consists of a series of open shells -- good enough to create 3D animations. Others may have been modeled with a more faithful internal structure (chassis, B-pillars, subframe) but even then, it's possible those subcomponents are not watertight.

Many 3D printers, FDM or SLA alike, require that the 3D model you feed it be watertight. No open seams, no manifold edges. Yes, there are some printing systems and workflows that tolerate non-watertight models, but it's a bad habit to rely on and can be a recipe for disaster if you intend on this being your thing.

The approach varies tremendously depending on many other factors you've not listed.

Is the intent to have a faithful interior or just targeting an outside shape? Interior features like the rearview mirror and dome light are overhangs that need to be supported regardless of the Printing tech used. Once printed, what's your plan on snipping away the supports? If it's a filled solid model and scaled up to 1:18, there'll be a LOT of filament or resin used. If it's a tiny 1:64 (matchbox) or 1:87 (HO) scale, FDM filament printing will look like garbage up-close. SLA resin printers provide astounding surface smoothness but tend to have small build envelopes - a limiting factor if future prints will be entire 1:32 - 1:24 scale vehicles.

The level of detail a resin SLA-type machine can achieve:
http://www.b9c.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1537

Start-to-finish of 1:10 scale resin wheel on my B9 printer:
http://www.b9c.com/forum/viewtopic.p...tart=20#p32950

On my envisionTEC printer configured with 30 micron X-Y resolution, details like shift knob and door map pockets are discernible with the macro dSLR lens. The multi-car print sits across an old iPhone screen for a sense of scale:
envisionTEC-roadsters.jpg
Attachment 10192

Folks modeling in Cinema4D mostly intend on the object to be displayed (on screen) and not manufactured. Maxxon's own homepage makes no claims nor pitches their C4D product as a manufacturing product. (Its name DOES say CINEMA, after all) Converting a poorly modeled polygon object into a proper watertight STL file might range from painfully difficult to highly improbable.

[Davo]

Not all 3D models are constructed the same. Depending on the creator, some were destined ONLY for visual effects where the model consists of a series of shells -- good enough to create 3D animations. Others may have been modeled with a more faithful internal structure (chassis, B-pillars, subframe) but even then, it's possible those subcomponents are not watertight.

Most folks new to 3D printing don't get this right away. They need to.

[Marm]

Most folks new to 3D printing don't get this right away. They need to.

I've been doing a lot of woodworking of late, and using sketchup to do a lot of the plans. It hurts my head to see all these non manifold drawings they use. I'm slowly shifting my thought process over to these types of drawings, but still having two faces share the same space is giving me migraines. Like a T Joint where two boards meet. A 3d printable model, that junction is hollow, but in a woodworking design drawing, that face (end of the board) exists.

[kubikdanon]

Not all 3D models are constructed the same. Depending on the creator, some were destined ONLY for visual effects where the model consists of a series of open shells -- good enough to create 3D animations. Others may have been modeled with a more faithful internal structure (chassis, B-pillars, subframe) but even then, it's possible those subcomponents are not watertight.

Many 3D printers, FDM or SLA alike, require that the 3D model you feed it be watertight. No open seams, no manifold edges. Yes, there are some printing systems and workflows that tolerate non-watertight models, but it's a bad habit to rely on and can be a recipe for disaster if you intend on this being your thing.

The approach varies tremendously depending on many other factors you've not listed.

Is the intent to have a faithful interior or just targeting an outside shape? Interior features like the rearview mirror and dome light are overhangs that need to be supported regardless of the Printing tech used. Once printed, what's your plan on snipping away the supports? If it's a filled solid model and scaled up to 1:18, there'll be a LOT of filament or resin used. If it's a tiny 1:64 (matchbox) or 1:87 (HO) scale, FDM filament printing will look like garbage up-close. SLA resin printers provide astounding surface smoothness but tend to have small build envelopes - a limiting factor if future prints will be entire 1:32 - 1:24 scale vehicles.

The level of detail a resin SLA-type machine can achieve:
http://www.b9c.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1537

Start-to-finish of 1:10 scale resin wheel on my B9 printer:
http://www.b9c.com/forum/viewtopic.p...tart=20#p32950

On my envisionTEC printer configured with 30 micron X-Y resolution, details like shift knob and door map pockets are discernible with the macro dSLR lens. The multi-car print sits across an old iPhone screen for a sense of scale:
envisionTEC-roadsters.jpg
Attachment 10192

Folks modeling in Cinema4D mostly intend on the object to be displayed (on screen) and not manufactured. Maxxon's own homepage makes no claims nor pitches their C4D product as a manufacturing product. (Its name DOES say CINEMA, after all) Converting a poorly modeled polygon object into a proper watertight STL file might range from painfully difficult to highly improbable.

Hi,

You seem very knowledgeable..
Few examples of models that I found so far:
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models...chiron/1075145
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models...audi-r8/945476
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models...d-model/950847

I want to produce 1:18 model with FULLY detailed interior, exterior, and probably with moving parts(open/close doors/frunk/trunk). Is it achievable? Can you do it? Can you provide a quote if so?

[Marm]

Simple answer.

No, these models cannot be 3d printed as is.

Those are rendered drawings basically. They are not designed for 3d printing. They are paintings that can be rotated and viewed from different angles.

First off there's way too much extra detail (ie colors, textures, reflections, etc) that are unnecessary for 3d printing. Some rendered models can be printed, but most can't

Secondly, none of those renderings show any of the actual structure of the model. Yeah, there's some wireframes, but that's not structure, that's surface. The image may show fine details, but most of them are textures, and not structure.

These files are for a multitude of uses, but 3d printing is not one of them. Most likely for use in computer animation or CGI.

If you want a plastic model of a Chiron or other supercar, buy a kit from a hobby shop.

Now maybe somebody here CAN convert these graphics files into manifold printable designs. But the amount of work required to design something like this is pretty tremendous. If you end up ordering this on commission from a designer, then you'll end up spending many many times over what a model kit would have cost to start with, and with lesser quality results. no matter how good a 3d printed model is, it won't equal what a design specific injection model kit part will.

[CarterTG]

Marm's already provided the same answer above as I was composing this...

Given that a quick Google search for 1:18 scale Chiron and R8 shows that production die-cast models are already available why are you reinventing the wheel?

https://youtu.be/QQCDGUZvknQ

Companies like Bburago, Maisto, AutoArt & Kyosho probably spend a couple months of work-hours to reproduce every last detail in a model (whether via CAD or old-school carving). Leveraging the economies of scale in mass-production, they're able to then manufacture all the details that go into a die-cast model... interior pieces, clear windshields, real rubber tires, chrome wheels. They avoid the massive lawsuit by going to the respective car manufacturers to $ecure licensing. All that development money gets recouped (maybe) when they sell that model through hobby stores, toy stores, department stores, and the gift counter at the car dealer. The consumer pays a relatively low price ($40-$100) for something that has a reasonably high amount of detail AND with the proper/faithful array of materials.

The TurboSquid file previously mentioned is likely aimed for visual-effects only and for certain wasn't modeled with working hinges or parametric moveable parts. You're basically asking someone out here to spend the level of time and engineering effort to create a (produced, existing) model in CAD so that it could be 3D printed with a single homogenous material?

This again begs re-asking the question of why. Because you're trying to out-do Bburago and want a Chiron with an opening engine bay? Because their body paint combo isn't to your liking? The die-cast industry probably spends at least $10,000-$30,000 on replication and prototyping alone for each model. Do you have a checkbook or willingness to match that? That's what it'll take to reach the level of detail you claim you want.

In the landscape of personal manufacturing, 3D prototyping & CAD design, it's entirely worthwhile to spend the time, money and energy to create something new, something that previously didn't exist. If you're doing this out of whimsy for a minor change, it's a foolish pursuit.

A less eccentric approach would be to buy a half-dozen of the same die-cast model, designate 2 samples as the project and the others become donor bodies. You're now able to cut out the trunk and gas cap that wouldn't open and use cannibalized parts to re-fit into functioning versions of the project car. Lots simpler to 3D print and cast working hinges & mechanisms only where needed. Jewelry TIG welder could be used to connect hardware to the donor parts & panels. Wrap up by giving the reassembled body a custom paint job using factory paints and clear coats of your choice... that is, if you're pursuing this for personal enjoyment.

If however, the choice of mentioning "partnership" in your title is suggesting an aim of taking this to an industrial level, I hope you're prepared to take care of all the licensing and tooling costs. The $30k paid to scratch-model all the prototype parts will be a bargain compared to all the additional expenditures to produce a worthy line to compete with the major players out there. Is there room for someone better to elbow their way in? Of course. A higher-level of sharp, crisp detail hasn't been reached yet. And none of the major players have incorporated lighting effects (functional headlamps, turn signals, illuminated dash cluster)

[Marm]

All this said, He is looking for a plastic model. I did a bunch of searches on the Chiron (but not the R8 nor the Mclaren), and could not find a plastic kit model. He might be an enthusiast that wants these cars in his collection, but cannot find a manufacturer of them, hence his questions. My answer in this scenario.... wait till somebody makes one. I doubt that nobody hasn't made an R8 model yet though, it's been out for about 10 years or so. The Chiron is relatively new. But I'd rather have a Veyron . Of course, if I could afford a Veyron....

And if you're looking for a high quality model of an existing item, 3d printing really isn't the best medium anyways. Yes, there are some fantastic prints out there in high detail, but not in the way your asking. Those are going to be some really really fine details the printer would have to replicate, and I think was mentioned, SLA may be your only choice for that level of detail. I'm not too familiar with the processes, but I'm under the impression SLA suffers from weakness of parts on the small scale. Hinges would break, edges wouldn't look just right, etc.

If you're hardcore about making your own model from scratch.... well, it'll cost ya as mentioned. I could recommend sculpting the body parts out of foam yourself from drawings, and then 3d scanning it, and then having a skilled modeller touch it, but that's a lot of leg work, and then you'd still have to find the drawings. Or possibly maybe finding a 6d CNC machine and doing the hole thing out of blocks of plastic or aluminum. But I guess it falls back to just waiting for a production kit to come out.

[CarterTG]

All this said, He is looking for a plastic model.

In Kubikdanon's two posts so far, nothing seems to suggest he was specifically looking for a plastic model kit (Revell/Monogram/Tamiya). Both plastic and die-cast metal models in the hobby world sport a high level of detail. Die-cast versions might have more articulating parts: opening trunks, hoods, doors, etc over its plastic kit equivalent.

What does seem concrete is his posted preference for scale... specifically 1:18. Die-cast metal car models coalesce toward certain scales.
1:64 Matchbox, Hotwheels
1:43 Minichamps
1:18 BBurago, Maisto, AutoArt, Kyosho

Plastic snap/glue kits are scaled all over the place, but for the most part, they tend to avoid the die-cast scales. What I remember from my hobby days are plastic kits sticking to
1:25
1:16
1:12
1:8

If Kubikdanon's already got a collection of 1:18 he wants to add to, my bets are his existing stuff is predominantly die-cast metal models. The Audi R8 and McLaren 570 (and aforementioned Chiron) have been available as existing 1:18 die-cast models.

YouTube has a bunch of enthusiasts who claim they can customize existing die-cast models, but watching a few of their clips, it's disappointing to realize they're just doing cosmetic fluff like window decals, a paint job, or at most slapping on some fiberglass (or Bondo) to do fender flares.

None of them have elevated to offering 3D prototyping to make truly customized parts. If that is the OP's intent, it's worth pursuing. 3D prototyping would create super-crisp detail in windshield wipers, antenna fins, steering wheels, aero bodyworks and custom wheels.

The point of Stereolithography (SLA) isn't to directly use the resin parts. The tech has been around since the 80's and employed by the likes of Ford Motor Company, dentists, Bvlgari, and lots others to prototype the investment model used in casting into production materials. The library of materials continues to expand where there are resins of varied characteristics. Some resins are now directly used for dental application, other resins can print into highly flexible material, and still others are formulated for speedy prototyping (10cm/hour) of reasonably sturdy parts.