First 3D Printer - Some questions unanswered after lengthy research

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The e3d hot end comes from the UK. Yet another part that is easier to source in Europe. The e3d lite will do a limited range of temperatures and thus a limited range of filaments. I would go with the e3d-V6 full up hot end before I went for the dual extruder. It is a fun option though ...

There are a lot of minor bits and pieces that go along with a 3d printer. A few examples:

Filament holders
Filament guides
Ramps Fans
Print fans
Wire covers
LED light mounts
Heated bed spacers
Spare extruder parts
New extruders

That list is simply an inventory of what is on the table in front of me. All were printed on the printer that will be using them. None of them are vital for operating the printer. Some are more useful than others. Other than the spare extruder parts none of them go into the main part of the structure of the printer. That's where metal frames and metal to metal joints help a *lot*.

If anything, the V-slot frame construction is more easily modified than most kits. The stuff is designed to be tied onto and into. Every piece has mount points all over the place. It's very neat stuff. The Core X-Y guys have a lot of fun with it.

Printing up stuff to "improve" a printer is one thing that falls under "hacking a printer". Customizing the firmware is another thing under that heading. Taking a printer from single extruder to dual or quad would be a more extreme form.

Bob

[Doc]

Something that I could't find on their website - how does the Pegasus connect to a computer? USB, wifi?

From your reply I infer that the e3d v6 is the superior of the two and it's the one I should go with. I checked the price, it will be cheaper to buy it along the printer instead of ordering it later on.

When it comes to printing parts for the printer you also mentioned extruders. I was under the impression that it is one of the parts that can't be printed, but need to be bought separately. Obviously, I'm wrong and you can print your own extruders. Correct my if I'm wrong.

In this line of question - what are parts that can't be printed, but need to be bought. (Again, keeping in mind metal is better than plastic.)

[uncle_bob]

Hi

All of the printers you are likely to consider connect to your computer via USB. Almost all of them have some sort of open source card in them that runs the printer based on commands from the computer or sometimes an SD card.

The e3d V6 is indeed the better hot end. It's the one I would suggest you get.

Parts for a printer are to a great extend defined when it is designed and tooled. You start with a list of things that you can afford and then chip away at the list of things that cost a bit more money. On the Pegasus, the extruder has two printed parts in it. There are two Z nut traps that are printed parts. There is a mounting bracket that holds the power supply and the control board. That's the total list. Ideally everything would be metal. Is that worth another $400 or not .... There are also a couple of minor parts that are made from laser cut wood.

If you were building a printer from scratch, I would suggest that you want all of the frame joints to be metal. You want all of the rollers or bearings to be cast parts / precision parts. Drive motor mounts should be metal. You want all of the guides to be precision parts. Minor parts (feet, display mounts, wire covers) do not impact the quality of the print. They can be done just about any way you wish. Some parts (hot ends, heated beds, control computers, stepper motors, power supplies, wires, switches, LCD displays) by their nature simply can not be printed from filament.

The core of the printer is the stuff that drives the print head to a given location. As much as possible that should be metal. Belts are a reasonable second choice. The core of the printing process is the extruder and hot end. Hot ends come pre-made and are mostly all metal. Extruders are moving to metal, but doing it at a snail's pace. Any kit you are likely to buy probably comes with a printed extruder. The good news there is that next year you can upgrade it cheaply.

Upgrades are another whole topic. If you rummage around the MakerFarm site, you will find upgrade packages for every printer kit they ever sold. The upgrades all have an option "with or without printed parts". Those boxes also list the parts and can give you a pretty good idea of what was printed on each generation. It is unclear if one *should* upgrade vs replace an older printer. It is nice to have a choice. Kit outfits vary all over the map in terms of upgrade packages. I have seen people try to upgrade printers entirely using printed parts .... it rarely ends well.

Why metal and not printed parts?

All filaments absorb moisture. When they do, they change size. In many cases they either cross link or de-link over time, that also changes their dimensions. Finally some can cold flow. The net result is that your printed part will not be the same shape / dimension / tolerance two years from now. When critical parts change dimensions, it's time to recalibrate your printer (or replace the parts).

Lots of fun.

Bob

[classone]

Yeah i agree 3d printer kits aren't too hard to but they can take a couple of hours of tinkering for someone who is new at it. If you are going for a 3d printer kit i would say go for a HITCOP 3d printer kit. They are reliable,excellent customer service, surprisingly good quality prints for the price of the printer and it already comes with a heating bed which helps so that the print doesn't get ruined by uneven cooling of the print(although if you buy a kit with no heating bed you can always find one and add it after). Just always try to avoid the Chinese replicas which are generally cheaper but they cause a lot of problems and not very good customer service

Here is a review of the HITCOP 3d printer kit and a dual extruder kit if you are interested in more info: http://3duality.com/best-diy-3d-printer-kits/

[curious aardvark]

personally I wouldn't bother with a kit, but that's me.
If you're starting out the ready built replica clones are very hard to beat and as cheap as the i3 kits - well they are in europe :-)

If you do get a kit the most important aspect would be to get one with a metal frame. Avoid acrylic, they always seem to cause problems.

As far as support goes - kits tend to be standard parts so easy to replace if they break.
Support for a cheap 3d printer really isn't something I'd ever consider towards my choice. You're never going to ship it back, so all repairs are down to you anyway and parts are easy to get and cheap.
Technical support - like many modern aspects of life - tends to come through forums like this one.

The sensible thing would be to buy the makerfarm in the states - and take the kit back with you when you leave. making sure NOT to declare it at customs :-) Just say it's spare parts for one you already have if they ask.
That way you get the best machine and don't have import hassle.

As far as the dual extruder kits go - DON'T.
the side by side dual kits are a real pita. so what you want to do is upgrade at some point to one of the single nozzle dual feed print heads.
That way you get the benefit of dual extrusion (it's pretty minimal with dual nozzles as it wastes so much filament and takes longer and causes a lot of issues) and the benefit of a single nozzle setup. http://www.3ders.org/articles/201504...ckstarter.html
Everything from levelling to speed of print is better with a single nozzle.

I have two rep clones, one I removed the second nozzle and the other I left it on (it's better built and causes less hassle) I almost never use both nozzles at once.
They dribble so you have to have purge walls with take time and use up a lot more filament and they still dribble. If not perfectly levelled the head you are not using will catch the print at some point and bugger things up.
For 99% of 3d printer uses side by side nozzles are more hassle than they are worth.
In the next 12 months or so there will be more and more multi filament single nozzle extruders coming onto the market. I'd wait and get one of those.

[Doc]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

@uncle_bob - Thx for taking your time for the detailed reply.

@classone - Thx for bringing the HICTOP. I did consider it, but the bed is too small for what I'm after.

@curious aardvark - Thx for clarifying the difference between extruders and for making a recommendation for my situation.

Guys, your answers were immense help for me and given what I have learned I will buy the Pegasus 12'' with the Single Extruder with one e3d-v6 hot end while I'm still in the US and take it along with me on the airplane. I still have couple of questions concerned with power supply and other misc things, but I will address those to Colin.

Thank you very much for your help.

Cheers, Doc.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The power supply is a standard industrial supply. The "best option" is one from Meanwell. The one that goes with the mounts is about $45 at TRC. There is a new one out that is a bit smaller for $34. Both are mulit voltage / multi frequency.

http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/M...S-350-12.shtml

What ever you do, get one from a real distributor. That way you get a "real" one and not some sort of counterfeit.

Bob

[Doc]

Thanks for the reply, Bob.

Colin also mentions speaker wire. He provides link for it at RadioShack's website, but as far as I could see online they sell it by the spool and I have no physical access to a RadioShack store. Is there any way of finding couple of feet of speaker wire online or getting to the store will be my best bet?

Doc

[uncle_bob]

Hi

RadioShack is pretty much a dead outfit. There are a lot of places that will sell you a relatively small chunk of 12 gauge high strand count wire. Amazon is one, there are many others. There is nothing special about the wire. Any reasonably flexible stranded wire will do. I'd suggest this is one thing you can pick up when you get home.

https://www.amazon.com/12-Gauge-Sili...=12+gauge+wire

Expensive, but very nice wire. Ten feet is way more than you will need.

Bob

[Doc]

Colin had listed 16 gauge wire and you suggested 12 gauge. What would be the difference between the two sizes?