Just got my Flashforge Creator Dual and here are my first prints

[Dargonfly]

I got my first printern, the Flashforge Creator Dual Extruder and I have been tinkering a bit with (got scared shitless every time it made a new noise!) and here are my first two prints:


Since these images are large I'll just put the album here instead of linking them all:
http://imgur.com/a/0k7UA

This was after I printed some 'pasta' because my bed was too far away from the nozzle. Also, I'm using a PVP based glue stick to make it stick to the plate; seems to work just fine.

These were both printed using Makerbot software (ReplicatorG kept saying my COM port was already in use...?) with the following settings (most were standard, I just adjusted the speed:
- Material: MakerBot PLA (blue)
- Rafts: Off
- Supports: Off
- Infill: 10%
- Number of Shells: 2 for cube, 3 for Marvin
- Layer Height: 0.10mm
- Extruder temp: 230 Celcius
- Build Plate temp: 110 Celcius
- Speed while Extruding: 40mm/s
- Speed while Traveling: 70mm/s

Both pieces took 30 minutes to print; (and I have been watching with amazement the whole time!)
I'm quite happy with this, but there is still a lot of room for improvement:
- The first 1-2cm of print isn't there (no material), this gets 'fixed' by the next layer of material, but makes the bottom a bit more sloppy
- The first few layers (approx. 2mm total) don't have a nice shell
- The shell has something 'wavy' going on in the X and Y direction (though not that much)
- The topside of the cube has 'dents' where there is no infill; I watched the process and I think by having just a larger top surface this can be fixed (or more infill off course)

The Marvin did a bit worse:
- First layer of left foot didn't print (no material); same problem as mentioned above
- During printing I could see that the overhanging parts (front and more notably the back) would curl upwards(!) this would get pushed back by the nozzle every time, but this created the flat ass that Marvin has (not good!)
- The ears are drooping; same as the top eyelid (which makes it look like he is squinting)
- The parts where you attach it to the keychain also drooped a lot and is very low quality

Top surface of Marvin is rather nice. So biggest problem is overhanging parts that droop / curl.
If anybody has some advice; then I will try it.
For now I think I have to try putting a fan on the printed parts so that they cool down quicker (and not curl/droop).

[repman]

Try increasing the build speed to 90mm/s extrude and 150mm/s travel

also heated bed is not required, and only causes more heat - heat is PLA's enemy

mounting a small fan to aid cooling the part as its printed will also help, PLA being of low density retains heat easily and needs help to get rid of it

these printers being makerbot copies are optimized for ABS, so you may get better results by using ABS, with these settings, but still increase the extrude and travel.

Keep it up

[Dargonfly]

Ok; second try:


Here's the album: http://imgur.com/a/U9DPU

I increased the layer height to 0.18mm; my idea here was that this would make the extruder extrude more material and thus have less issue with not having material the first 1-2cm of extrusion time.
And it worked! I got material right away!

I decreased the bed heat to 30 Celcius (pretty much disabling it; but the disable button didn't work in Makerbot(?)) as suggested by Repman -
I also placed a large fan to the side of the machine aiming at the bed + extruder.

This resulted in more accurate first layers and less drooping (the eyes here are somewhat comparable to the Marvin ears.)

New problem; the bottom sticked too much to the surface; I damaged a bit of the yellow material (kapton?) in the process
Eventually I had to heat up the bed; and then I could remove it (though I did bent all the arms of the Octopus while heating + trying to remove it - even though the print came out really straight.)

Though once again; I'm pretty satisfied (And surprised) by the result - that's why I now started a 5 hour print that used dual extrusion of both ABS + PLA.
It's looking good so far.


Also a question directed at Repman's comment regarding the travel speed for PLA extrusion:
I'm guessing you're advising me to increase the speed to allow less heat to get into the material.
What is better:
Faster travel speed + high temperature (being heated for low amount of time)
Lower travel speed + low temperature (being heated for a long amount of time)

[repman]

lol
The height adjust will not affect the amount of material extruded, not getting material right away is a bed level problem, if i dont see material coming right away, i push the bed down with my hand slightly so i can see if this is the case, obviously if the bed is too close to the extruder outlet then it essentially blocks the material. TIP level the bed at the temperature you plan to use it at i.e level at 110c if using a heated bed, or level at room temp if running at room temp.

Try and set the bed temp off in the tick box, last as i have noticed it seems to default back to heated bed on if you adjust other setting last, and remember to save settings.

Print PLA on blue painters tape not kapton you will save your expensive kapton tape and removal is a bit easier from the cheap throw away tape.

fast speed low bed temp for PLA on blue tape

Some people heat bed to 60c (its the materials Tg that makes it stick) others use no heat, I do not , i dont think it matters in my experience.

[Dargonfly]

lol
The height adjust will not affect the amount of material extruded, not getting material right away is a bed level problem, if i dont see material coming right away, i push the bed down with my hand slightly so i can see if this is the case, obviously if the bed is too close to the extruder outlet then it essentially blocks the material. TIP level the bed at the temperature you plan to use it at i.e level at 110c if using a heated bed, or level at room temp if running at room temp.

Try and set the bed temp off in the tick box, last as i have noticed it seems to default back to heated bed on if you adjust other setting last, and remember to save settings.

Print PLA on blue painters tape not kapton you will save your expensive kapton tape and removal is a bit easier from the cheap throw away tape.

fast speed low bed temp for PLA on blue tape

Some people heat bed to 60c (its the materials Tg that makes it stick) others use no heat, I do not , i dont think it matters in my experience.

But if the amount of material extruded (per second) stays the same then how can it print with a higher or lower layer thickness? Higher layer thickness should mean more material extruded per second right? (If I'm completely wrong please say so.)

I see now; when I turn of the heated bed I have to safe the settings and not change anything else because then it resets.
I will get some blue painters tape! Thanks for the tip.

Will fiddle around with temp and speed settings tomorrow! Thanks again for the advice!

For now I have another print to show:



infill 20%
walls 2
speeds 40 / 70
temps 230 / 230 / 30 (bed)
material ABS (white) / PLA (blue)


During printing the tail + some ABS came loose from the bed:

In the end all the other small ends (feet + head) of the blue dragon also lifted from the bed a bit. So it's not just the ABS that does this! (Also near the end probably means that there is less heat at the bottom, should I increase bed temp?)


The PLA extruder kept dripping createing this masterpiece at the edge. The ABS left some white spots; but not that much.

There is some strange 'wiggling' in the ABS in the first few millimeters, but this could be due to the lifting from the bed.
Here is the full album: http://imgur.com/a/VaRXK

Enough messing around for today; tomorrow I'll do some proper tests to get the right bed height, temps, speed, walls, infill, etc. for some parts I would like to make.

[curious aardvark]

your picture links don't work for me at all.

Can you just attach them to the post ?

the whole resolution thing is a bit misleading. If you're printing something with a lot of bridging you want a lower resolution. Thicker strands of plastic weill hold and bridge a longer gap much better than a thin strand.

Also the time versus 'quality' trade off can be a bit ridiculous.

I print most things at 0.3 mm Go up to 0.2 if I want really smooth.
I see on thingiverse that a lot of people seem to print at 0.25. Tried that, printer actually gives better detail at 0.3

So for models with overghangs and tricky angles you'll often get better prints with lower resolutions.

Without seeing your pics can't add much else :-)

One thing - try building with raft turned on.
I've never managed to print anything without using a raft. so you're ahead of me there.

But, while large items will still warp, rafts help stop that. Plus while you're still learning the craft (not sure we ever stop) you can rattle off prints on rafts with no problems at all :-)
You use a little more plastic, but 99% of my prints come out damn near perfect.

Also don't be afriad to adjust extrusion temps.
I've just started a new roll of - supposedly - silver abs. It's light grey. But 230 and 225 were too hot for it. Currently printing a food saver disc at 220 and looking much sharper and cleaner than the mini traffic cone I tested it with at 225.

Also be careful calibrating at temperature - those metal knobs get bloody hot. Get some m3 nuts and print some plastic knobs.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:243998

Food saver disc is a flat disc with small spikes that you push into the ends of partly used cucumber, lemons etc to stop them drying out.
Friend said she'd seen something like it.
So I knocked this up in openscad.

foodsaver disc_800x600.jpg

In the mk2 I've moved the outer spikes in for smaller diameter lemons, etc and made all the spikes the same height.

And yes that's supposed to be silver.
What's the betting that the 'gold' abs is just yellow :-)
Plus it's not great filament.

Mind you the black i got from the same supplier is seriously good stuff.

[curious aardvark]

ah ha pics up - try the same print with same settings and a raft.

Think you'll find it prints out perfectly.

Love that dragon !

Hell man I haven't even got as far as tw colour prints yet - let alone two colour two material prints without a raft !

You're way ahead of me :-)
I'm just having fun inventing things :-))

where'd you get the dragon and egg stl ?
And how long did that take to print and what resolution did you use ?

[Dargonfly]

ah ha pics up - try the same print with same settings and a raft.

Think you'll find it prints out perfectly.

Love that dragon !

Hell man I haven't even got as far as tw colour prints yet - let alone two colour two material prints without a raft !

You're way ahead of me :-)
I'm just having fun inventing things :-))

where'd you get the dragon and egg stl ?
And how long did that take to print and what resolution did you use ?

When you use a raft; what do you do with the temperature of the heat bed?

Aww.. you're making me blush
But it probably was beginners luck :-)

The 'dragon and egg' is actually a dragon with a heart (thought it was an egg too before printing it.) but it came as a dual extrusion example with Makerbot.
Looked it up for you and found it here:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:17204
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:29088
(if you search for 'pet monster valentine' you'll find some other comparable dragons)

The print took was estimated at 5 hours by Makerbot but only took 3.5 hours. (Which I find really acceptable since I cannot produce nice 3D models faster than this thing can print them!!)
(0.18mm layer height, 20% infill, 2 shells, speeds: 40 / 70)
Probably can go a lot faster as suggested by Repmap; will do some tests tomorrow to find out optimum quality / speed/ material / strength.

Thanks again for the kind words and good advice; will also do testing with rafts! And what you said about using larger layer height for overhanging parts makes a lot of sense!
Also that food saver idea is quite clever.

[curious aardvark]

wel one thing I can say - you'll get better results with the same material in different colours than different materials.

Given that pla sticks to cold beds and abs to hot beds - don't mix the two. No matter what settings you use one or the other won't stick !

speed wise I tend to do most things at 70/100

As geoff says - anything much above 80 and the machine appears to be shaking itself apart on the infill.

Food saver disc stl attached - I think :-)
I printed it fine at: 3 shells, 0.3, 5% infill, 70/100 speed.
Takes about 21 minutes.

I really should look at those examples again :-)
Found the dragon - think I'll do it one colour, hollow and .4 see how quick I can knock one out.
I need something to balance the hollow yoda that's sitting on geraldine's left back corner.

I did read that stepper motors work in 0.04mm increments. So layer heights that are divisible by 4 work better than ones that aren't.
Not sure if it's true for the ff steppers - but it sort of makes sense.

I'll have to try .28 instead of .3

Actually another way to avoid parts warping is to print with NO infill. 0%.
You get a hollow model, which means there is a lot less plastic to shrink and pull the edges up. Fo stronger models Use shells instead of infills.
3 usually works great for hollow models.
I've seen people go up to 5 shells for watertight things.

[curious aardvark]

One thing you might not have registered yet (there is a lot to take in).

Make some abs paint. Just mix acetone with abs off-cuts. This can be used to both paint different coloured abs on to models and to fill in gaps, smooth surfaces etc. As an artist you can probabyl find way more uses than I can.

Also if you're making a drinking vessel, a thickish paint can be used to make it water tight . It's also useful for gluing parts together.

Just useful to have a jar or two around of the colours you use most.

For a universal abs paint/glue/smoothing solution - make up some with transparent abs.