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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    Oh yeah - you both keep typing temperatures in fahrenheit - when you actually mean centigrade.
    Small thing but really annoying to those of us sensible enough to not use a temperature scale, based on the temperature of a man's wife's armpit (look it up :-)
    Doh You're right, sorry...

  2. #12
    Engineer-in-Training
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    Would like it hotter but with the electronics board inside the enclosure the manufacture suggest keeping it under 110F (43.3333C)

    Before adding the thermostat it had gone as high as 112F (44.444C) and suffered no issue other than the PLA spool support drooping, but that has been replaced with ABS. And yes there is some shrinkage causing the very tips of the corners to lift a bit.

    Adding a 1.5-2mm filet around the edge of the face that is on the bed, along with a brim that is just about attached .04mm offset eliminates most of the lift.

    The parts I am making are small and mostly 100% infill, so solid abs, as they are mechanical in nature.

    As I have mentioned in another thread, the ABS I am using is really nice stuff, $40US a Kilo vs the cheap Esun but there is never an issue with thinness variation.
    Last edited by airscapes; 08-26-2019 at 09:46 AM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by airscapes View Post
    You may want to lower your temp.. I use Esun and MakerGrear abs and always print at 235 with very few issues. Do a Pid calibration on your hotend if you have never done one
    On the terminal with the hot end cold and off send M303 wait till done. wire down the output as the printer may disconnect do to time out during the test as it takes a few minutes. Reconnect if need be and Enter the values last reported which you wrote down like below (your numbers will be different) Then send a 500 to save.

    When I switch nozzles I switch hot ends. I have run Pid cal on each hot end and saved the values in a spread sheet. When I change a nozzle size and hotend set my starting height and set the Pid for the particular hotend I have installed

    .25 M301 P17.49 I1.16 D65.95
    .35 M301 P19.97 I1.39 D71.56
    0.5 M301 P18.64 I1.24 D71.83
    Thanks for the suggestions...no, never done calibrations for the hotend before.

    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    number of options, basically most things are better than bog-standard abs.

    It does depend how much you are prepared to pay for your filament.


    Also - have you tried magigoo on your print bed ?
    Easily the best and longest lasting 3rd party printing adhesive I know of.

    Filament wise, one of the best things on the market is ninjatek's Armadillo. It's a rigid polyurethane, stronger, lighter, more durable and better temperature stats than abs - and really easy to print. Well I used some, mistaking it for pla - and it printed perfectly.

    ......

    OR - and it's a pretty significant 'OR'
    you could make your own :-) https://hackaday.io/project/114738-a...ite-3d-printer
    Now that's interesting, he's using kapton tape to coat the belt. I'd be inclined to coat the kapton with magigoo anyway. Never had much luck with kapton.

    Given that you can make one for - probably - a few hundred dollars, certainly well under a thousand - versus $11,000 to buy one.
    Sounds like you should have all the tools necessary in your factory, as well as engineers to make the parts.
    Got to be worth a try, right :-)

    Make a belt machine, use abs fusion - job's a good one !
    The materials section of the 3d printing market has pretty much outstripped everything else in terms of new materials and properties - but most people still use bog standard pla, abs and pet-g. And they are cheap in comparison to some of the newer materials. But if it's a commercial application, definitely worth investing in better materials.
    I do like to try as many different materials as possible.
    I'm going to have another go with that fusion, just for the hell of it. hot today so all doors and window in my workshop are open :-)
    Actually, price is a big concern...this is a 3rd world country, and we do have to watch our costs quite a bit. We currently buy from "Flythinking" in China for about $7 USD per Kg. We order several hundred Kg per order...so $40/Kg does not sound very inciting. Same with the majigoo, I think we would easily be spending quite a bit on it....but maybe we'll order a stick to at least see the difference. Concerning building our own, no we don't have any engineers here, I'm the tech guy at the business and I studied industrial design and EET a bit, but didn't finish either degree. When it comes to 3D printing, I'm a novice tinkerer and a DIY noob. I think I could figure it out and build something successfully, but I imagine it would take me hundreds of hours (that I don't have) as opposed to only tens for someone with experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    here's the pics of the part I got from blackbelt last year.
    This is how it came off the belt. No supports were used and it hasn't had any post processing.
    They were also printing pretty quick, so this is a 'rough' print.

    The above pic (last) is the orientation it was printed at. That long horizontal section was printed without support.
    Your attachments are broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by airscapes View Post
    Would like it hotter but with the electronics board inside the enclosure the manufacture suggest keeping it under 110F (43.3333C)

    Before adding the thermostat it had gone as high as 112F (44.444C) and suffered no issue other than the PLA spool support drooping, but that has been replaced with ABS. And yes there is some shrinkage causing the very tips of the corners to lift a bit.

    Adding a 1.5-2mm filet around the edge of the face that is on the bed, along with a brim that is just about attached .04mm offset eliminates most of the lift.

    The parts I am making are small and mostly 100% infill, so solid abs, as they are mechanical in nature.

    As I have mentioned in another thread, the ABS I am using is really nice stuff, $40US a Kilo vs the cheap Esun but there is never an issue with thinness variation.
    We have been planning to build an enclosure, so I th9ink this will be the next thing I pursue....thanks again for the suggestions.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #14
    Another picture of our setup

    20161110_163317.jpg:

  5. #15
    Engineer-in-Training
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    I have never tired it but if you google ABS slurry it can be used on the build plate. I am guessing you parts on the edges of the plate come loose most often? How to on the slurry https://www.matterhackers.com/news/h...lue-and-slurry

  6. #16
    Super Moderator curious aardvark's Avatar
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    oh yeah abs slurry works - up to a point.
    Yes abs will stick to it like a tick to moose.
    Getting it off on the other hand, makes deticking a moose a walk in the park.

    I used clear abs back in the distant past when i used abs, you'd often have a clear skin attached to the base of the print.

    Have you tried a sheet of PEI ?
    It's cheap - I think I paid about £5 for the self adhesive 200x200x1mm sheet I bought from china and promptly lost.
    Your filament suppliers can probably send you some.

    basically stuff sticks to it when it's hot and unsticks itself when it's cooled.
    I use a similiar thing called printbite - that's more costly, but instantly took all the hassle out of printing when i installed it.
    No more tape, glue, hammers, scrapers etc.

    PEI is supposed to be similiar, but a lot cheaper.
    Worth a try.
    I would have tested it by now - but for the life of me I cannot remember where I put it and I just can't find it. It's a big sheet in a white envelope, just don't know what happened to it. I do vaguely remember thinking I'd better put this somewhere safe till I'm ready to try it.
    And at that point it seems to have vanished off the face of the earth.

    Basically, pretty much everything I've ever tried works better than kapton tape.
    Last edited by curious aardvark; 08-27-2019 at 05:55 AM.

  7. #17
    Engineer-in-Training
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    Basically, pretty much everything I've ever tried works better than kapton tape.
    That is interesting, but I have to wonder if the setup of the printer and ability to maintain a repeatable staring distance and mechanical level is more of an issue. What flament does not stick to the polymide tape sold by Makergrear? I assume all Polymide tape is the same, but is it? I to would like to find something better that is less work to replace. Printbite .. how long does it last??
    Oh and how thick and heavy it is, and how well does it transmit heat? The M2 bed is both Y and Z axis so adding weight is not something I would want to do.
    Last edited by airscapes; 08-27-2019 at 08:28 AM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    Have you tried a sheet of PEI ?
    Thanks, I just ordered some majigoo and a couple sheets of PEI for testing....I appreciate all the suggestions.

  9. #19
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    Please let me know how the 2 products compare to the polymide surface.

  10. #20
    Super Moderator curious aardvark's Avatar
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    printbite last at least as long as your printer. I had one of the first sheets - actually outlasted the printer, which is currenty on ashelf awaiting the day i get a larger workshop and can be arsed to replace, what i believes is a dodgy stepper driver.

    The sheet on the delta has been going strong for over 2 years now.
    The current sheets are about half a mm, but really really hard. I've actually removed mymat nylon with a hammer and chisel. Didn't mark the printbite. So never use mymat nylon with printbite !
    You can also get any graphic you like printed on the current version.
    Heat transfer is 100% - I've sused my ir thermo and what it reads is what it says on the printer control panel.

    Currently using stick sheets from lankeda.com on the knp and the i3. Good stuff but you have to really dial in your z offset/calibration and up the first layer speed till you're on he edge f not sticking. Otherwise removing prints is bloody difficult.
    No idea what it is. Doesn't look or feellike buildtak and is also seriously tough
    But it's good for all that.
    And it was free :-)

    And a quick wipe over with magigoo every 3-4 months stops the worst of the over-stick.

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