Quote Originally Posted by Mjolinor View Post
I think that temperature variation will kill it anyway unless you employ some very clever compensation techniques. You have minimum 10% variation in velocity with temperature and velocity is the main factor in any timing that you must use to measure distance. That temperature variation cannot be accounted for because it may go from 100 C at the head through a cold patch at (I guess) around 30C then back up to 60C as the signal approaches the bed. Once you had set the thing with a warm head and bed then the results would be way off with a cold head and bed so it would need setting for every different temperature you use and for every location on the bed as temperatures vary depending on where you are then once you have opened a door or walked round the room the air moves and your readings are wrong again.

You also have a small variation in the velocity depending on frequency so any frequency sweep method would need more compensation tables. If you use eg. 40 kHz then you have lambda of around 8mm. No way on earth can you distinguish how many wavelengths you are away without moving the bed up and down significant amounts and without knowing if the head will crash how can you know if you are one wavelength away or more.

I am watching with interest to see how you overcome some of these (and significant other) problems. I looked at doing this a couple of years ago as I have done significant design work in ultrasonic sensing, I abandoned the idea because the further in you go the more problems arise.
I think that temperature variation will kill it anyway unless you employ some very clever compensation techniques. You have minimum 10% variation in velocity with temperature and velocity is the main factor in any timing that you must use to measure distance. That temperature variation cannot be accounted for because it may go from 100 C at the head through a cold patch at (I guess) around 30C then back up to 60C as the signal approaches the bed. Once you had set the thing with a warm head and bed then the results would be way off with a cold head and bed so it would need setting for every different temperature you use and for every location on the bed as temperatures vary depending on where you are then once you have opened a door or walked round the room the air moves and your readings are wrong again.”
alignG compensates for the temperature gradient. It does not mean that there isnt any effect; but, it is minimized. There are many ways to do that. But, please don’t make it that much bold. In the worst condition, after compensation, we may have less than 20% change in the accuracy. In the other hand, it is a systematic error in the measurement; if you always do the measurement on a bed with 120C, you will get an approximately consistent result; so, it does not really matter. But if you plan always to play with the bed temperature during the bed leveling, that’s a different deal. You do not also have to do the measurement when the extruder and bed are hot if you are that much concerned.
The parameters that you mentioned, directly affect the transit time based ultrasonic sensors. We are not doing a transit time measurement. For Phase/Doppler measurement, there is a different story. Our measurement is not as simple as sending a pulse and measuring the time that it returns. There are many techniques employed by many researchers during past decades to minimize the effect of sound speed on the Doppler/Phase measurements. A simple search in google or IEEEXplore website will show you many practiced techniques including multi-frequency approach, T&R orientation, …
Any measurement instrument is sensitive to the temperature. We never claimed that we have an ideal sensor that solves all the problems for everybody on any condition. What are the sensors that you can use for auto bed leveling today? Please let me know the available choices. Which of them are not dependent to the temperature? Is an inductive proximity sensor or IR sensor kept several millimeters away from the hot bed not affected by its temp? You can keep alignG 10cm away from the bed and do the measurement.

“You also have a small variation in the velocity depending on frequency so any frequency sweep method would need more compensation tables. If you use eg. 40 kHz then you have lambda of around 8mm. No way on earth can you distinguish how many wavelengths you are away without moving the bed up and down significant amounts and without knowing if the head will crash how can you know if you are one wavelength away or more.
I am watching with interest to see how you overcome some of these (and significant other) problems. I looked at doing this a couple of years ago as I have done significant design work in ultrasonic sensing, I abandoned the idea because the further in you go the more problems arise.”
Does the sound velocity depend on its frequency?
No way on earth? Seriously?