Printer Advise for CNC shop

[candcpmi]

I am new to the 3d printer world but I am very familiar with CNC machines. I would like to purchase a 3d printer and get familiar with the technology. It would be a great machine for the my machine shop to do quick prototypes because getting a prototype completed in a CNC is costly and can be several hours or even days for a quick prototype. My budget is under 15k. I have been searching for a good printer but I needing some advise at what you would recommend. I had a rep from Stratasys at my shop and he showed me several different demo parts that looked really nice. The downside of Stratasys is everything is proprietary. I really dislike how much they charge and the long run it is going to be an expensive machine to operate. I have been searching the web pages for something that is comparable to a Uprint and I really liked a Leapfrog Xeed but I am not sure. On paper it looks good but I cannot find many people that own one and I cannot find many printed parts of the Xeed. Here is what I am shooting for and let me know what you would recommend.

Budget is $15,000
parts need to be precision comparable to a Stratasys Uprint.
Prints with support material Dual extruder
Has a decent build envelope of 10 x 10 x 5


Thank you

[richardphat]

3D printing is also the same, it will take hours to days if you want to achieve a useable components.


All FDM printers precision are alike and all of them completely blow when it comes to geometry tolerancing and dimension. The only thing you want from stratasys is printing right off the bat, support and again support. No matter what 3D printer you choose, the printed object will always suffer of common issues.
You will get unconsistent shrinking due to volume,infill, brutal geometry changing factor, warping, completely failure printing because the layer bed didn't do its job,etc.

SLA is really expansive to maintain. Despite having good precision, it is brittle, and if you accidentally fall the object on the ground, chance it will break in piece that easy.

SLS is out of your league. Current budget is out of question.


As "a technician" working with 4 printers (3FDM and SLA), I prefer traditionnal machining over 3D printing, because all my client went overhyped and request precision and functionnal device. They expect to pay me cheap, claiming once printing you can do something else. But then they never take count of the consultation time, just to see if the object is printable or not.

The nice thing about 3D printing technology is you can do something else while it prints. This is what you should take advantage of!
Or if you need geometry that cannot be done through CNC and you don't care about tolerancing (we're talking about typical 0.025" shrinking on a "okay" calibration). The only reason why I work for my teachers are printing venturi, convergent divergent, some aerospace airfoil which the other technician don't have the time to make one.

[candcpmi]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have been getting frustrated because there is not a good transition from a simple desktop unit to a 50k professional unit. I am wanting something that is in the middle but has good results and is consistent. I am starting to rethink what path I will go.

[richardphat]

Ultimaker 2 is a solid printer, the only drawback is the use of 2.85mm filament which is harder to find. Chinese manufacturer tends to shoot for 3.00mm which can be an inconvenient.
The build enveloppe is only about 9x9x9 in, but quality is there.

My suggestion when you ever buy a printer, do buy hotend spare. Sometime you may not have the time to unclogged the nozzle because particles get stucked in it. So get extra hot ends and a also get a set of nozzle. 0.35, 0.4, 0.5 and 0.7mm diameter.
It's like when you mill big object and smaller object you use different cutter. It's the same with printer. Learn when to switch head, to gain time economy.

Here's the kind of stuff you can print. I am pretty sure you have an idea how complex a venturi is. Well with the printer you can print fine without any problem. Only drawback is tolerance and circularity. You get an noticeable error if you get some tool to measure. But then depending who your client is, he might not care and really like it.
https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ve...ernal-diameter

[Mjolinor]

You don't know it yet but what you need is a second hand Stratasys 768. You have the choice of SST or BST, go with the SST. You should be able to get one for under $8000 in extremely good condition, I have seen them as cheap as £500 but they are rare. There is little in them that you need to rely on Stratasys for in fact they will stop supporting them next year. You can use any filament you want at any temperatures you want and apart from the electricity they use they have the same cost to run as any other FDM.

Google the hacks that you can do and once you have your head round them you will realise it is the best way for you. Print quality is excellent and you have no messing, just draw and print.

[JSenior]

It's worth looking into Z Corp machines (3D Systems projet x60) we use ours a lot more than any of our sla machines.

They are super quick, will build pretty much anything you want as everything is supported, are pretty accurate and very cheap to run.

We normally use wax infusion to toughen the models up a bit (ample for a look-see when using them for prototypes) or will coat them in the resin if we need them to be functional.

It's my second favourite technology, only second to sls (which starts at over 100k)

[curious aardvark]

what's the technology behind those projets ?
All they say on the website is that they're full colour. No mention of material of printing system.

I mean for $15,000 you could really go to town.

Get a form one +
ultimaker 2

And still have $10 left for a second hand commercial machine.

[JSenior]

They're a form of plaster with a binding glue.

They are very brittle when they come out but then you can infuse various things inside them to toughen them up (super glue type resins or wax are the main two)

I wouldn't bother with a colour version unless you need it. More things to go wrong.

This is the sort of stuff we print, just to prove to the consult with the customer. (print took around 15 minutes and is roughly 150 x 150 x 10)

WP_20140905_07_56_43_Prob.jpg

[ralphzoontjens]

It will depend on what the main purpose of your machine is going to be. If it's mostly for quick visual models, the Projet seems great. I have had a few parts made and still with the cyanoacrylate (super glue) infusion they can be brittle. And no flexibility whatsoever so structurally the part is not at all comparable to a plastic.

With your budget I would keep an eye out for upcoming, more affordable SLS machine. Sintratec is one company currently trying to crowdfund their development of a desktop SLS machine for 5k USD. SLS parts have good visual and mechanical properties as well as the ability to handle a variety of materials (although only one per print). If you use nylon it can be dyed any color.

Next to that I would definitely also get a cheaper FDM machine like a Makerbot or Ultimaker. Just for things like quick and dirty prototyping or just to have some fun with it.