The Makibox - A Cautionary Tale

[curious aardvark]

So almost exactly 12 months ago I ordered a makibox and a bunch of filament from a company called makible.com.
The printers had a small print volume and needed more than the average tweaking to get to run properly.
BUT the company was past the kickstarter startup phase and printers had been arriving around the world.
They were also very very cheap and - I thought - a good entry into the world of 3d printing.

The printer, 7kg of filament and postage came in at an amazingly low £350

Mine was due to be made in january 2014 and delivered sometime around march 2014.

It never turned up.
Makible kept putting out statements that were blatantly bare faced lies.
The hotends kept failing, the machine just couldn't print pla, and deliveries stopped completely in april.

Over the course of the next 6 months it became clear that makible just hadn't done it's economic homework and had massively undersold the machines and as a consequence run out of money.
A shipment of printers designated for europe was sitting in a warehouse in hongkong somewhere - despite assurances that they'd been shipped.

Throughout this I never recieved a single email from makible. The makible forum was the only means of communication.

I had given the machine up for dead and written it all off as one of those life lessons we all have to learn.

The makible website has been down for a month or so, but I check it every day.
And this morning discovered that not only does my makibox exist, but it's been sold to another hongkong company who have actually shipped the europaen consignment to the uk.
http://www.makiboxclearance.co.uk/

So a printer and filament I've already paid for is now going to be shipped to the uk and sold to someone else.

And as far as I can see there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

The morals of this story are manifold, here's just a few:

1) don't blindly believe anybody on kickstarter - no matter how enthusiastic they might seem - In this case jon buford
2) don't buy the cheapest thing you can find - there's usually a reason for the price, not necessarily a good one
3) Never buy a printer from a startup company unless they can prove economic stability - ie: they've calculated the manufacturing and distribution cost in the price and are shipping regular machines without any issues.

I'm not angry about the machine not turning up, I wasn't even angry at jon for lying to people so much. It was obvious after march that business wise he was in way over his head. These things happen.
I've written the money off, bought a ff creator and am extremely happy with it.

Looking around I see a number of 3d printer companies with similiar stories to makible.
I didn't pre-order from a crowdfunded campaign. I bought a machine that was shipping from a store looking 100% legit.
I will probably never order anything from a crowdfunded site in the future, as a consequence. And most likely wait until a product has been around for 12months before even looking at it.

But that's life's learning curve.

Nope, the only thing in this whole affair that really pisses me off, is that the products I ordered and paid for are now going to be sold to someone else in the uk, and I don't have any legal redress to stop them.

That's not right.

[Mjolinor]

I am not sure that is legal in quite a lot of ways not least UK selling regulations. It probably won't help you but anyone buying from that site needs to think carefully before going ahead.

This site is operated by China European e-Commerce Limited, we were part of the group that provided warehousing and delivery services to Makible for the MakiBox products. We agreed to take Makible stock in leiu of payment for our services – that is the stock that we are selling on this site. It is all brand new and unused, but it is ‘sold as seen’ and there is a limited amount available, when its gone its gone.

It seems that no one at the company bothered to read the distance selling regulations and the legal liability related to warranty that must be obeyed in order to sell things in the UK, unless I am missing something.

[Feign]

Wow, I sure wish I could sell things, not deliver, and then sell them again to the Chinese without legal repercussions.

I mean, really, the setup with Croudfunding skirts the laws in this regard, but this guy and the company he sold to now have hundreds of internet savvy people, possibly thousands that they have officially stolen from. I appreciate you not being mad, but if I were in your position, I would be, and I'm not a guy who is easy to anger.

There's no legal redress, but in all likelihood, things are going to be very difficult for Mr. Buford, and for the company associated with MakiboxClearance. To the point that they will be made an example to other companies, that laws are there to protect the companies' people as well as the buyers, and going outside of it is done at one's own risk.

[Mjolinor]

I think the company that now has them seem to have taken them in a debt. Probably Mr. Buford ripped their shirts too and at least they have found a way to recover some of the debt.

[curious aardvark]

I think the company that now has them seem to have taken them in a debt. Probably Mr. Buford ripped their shirts too and at least they have found a way to recover some of the debt.

That's how I see it.

The goods - paid for in full by customers - were traded by makible in lieu of payment. So the new owners don't have any existing contract with the original purchasers. Makible have effectively stolen from it's customers, but probably not in any way that's legally liable.
It's morally reprehensible, no question. But legally, under hong kong law ?

I might join in the law suit that's been raised with the hongkong police - but there's no money there to recoup and the exchange of goods in lieu of payment is probably fully legal.

Now a case could be made for the fact that goods that have been paid for, no longer belong to makible. But this is hongkong and their business laws are not the same as the uk's.

Essentially makible went backrupt and creditors took goods in lieu of payment.

That's just one of those things - it's the fact that MY machine will actually arrive in the uk 13 months after I bought and paid for it and I won't get it. That makes me angry.
That's deliberately rubbing salt into the wounds.

If anyone can think of a way to bollix up the sale of the makiboxes - I'd give that a go :-)

[Mjolinor]

If the goods were transferred as a partial solution for debt at bankruptcy then you should be entitled to a similar percentage.

There sure is a lot of brown smelly stuff splattered about this whole case.

[Feign]

I think the company that now has them seem to have taken them in a debt. Probably Mr. Buford ripped their shirts too and at least they have found a way to recover some of the debt.

Okay, I'll rephraise:
Wow, I sure wish I could sell things, not deliver, and then sell them again to the Chinese to cover my debts without legal repercussions.

Alternately, from the other perspective: Wow, I sure wish when my client can't pay me I could take stuff from my client's customers and sell it without any legal repercussions.
"You see officer, the guy who sold him this car is in debt to me, so I'm repossessing it." Nope, that does not work.

[curious aardvark]

"You see officer, the guy who sold him this car is in debt to me, so I'm repossessing it." Nope, that does not work.

Actually under uk law, that's exactly how it works.

If you buy a stolen car or a car that still has payments pending on it from a previous owner - regardless how it was presented to you - you have no comeback and it can be legally repossessed to cover the original debt. Essentially you had no legal right to buy it in the first place, so your transaction is null and void.

It's why these instant mobile phone pre-buy check apps have proliferated in the last couple of years.
When buying a used car it's your legal obligation to check it's not owned by someone else before you buy it.
And yes I did use such an app when i bought my last car.

Scary - but true.

I also suspect there is a very good reason this company have shipped the makiboxes to the uk rather than say: germany or france.
They were originally supposed to ship to germany for europaen and uk distribution.
I can't see either the german or french laws allowing this kind of thing to happen.
But in the uk - oh yeah.

[Mjolinor]

If you, as a private individual, buy a car on HP then the HP company have no comeback against you, the car is legally yours. It may be investigated because if they can prove that you knew about the HP then it is not legally yours and must be handed over. If you are a trader then that does not apply, the car is still the property of the HP company.

I have been on the receiving end of that a few times and have never lost the vehicle.

It would be interesting to see if this unscrupulous character has any shares or interests in the new company.

[Feign]

Actually under uk law, that's exactly how it works.

If you buy a stolen car or a car that still has payments pending on it from a previous owner - regardless how it was presented to you - you have no comeback and it can be legally repossessed to cover the original debt. Essentially you had no legal right to buy it in the first place, so your transaction is null and void.

First, I see again why America was so keen on getting away from the Brits.
Second, in both of those situations the guy who sold the car he doesn't own goes to jail.

Now granted, Crowdfunding pledges aren't legally binding sales, they're technically donations with vague promises attached...

Oh, wait, Makible wasn't a crowdfunded project, they were just pre-orders!

Yeah, he would be on his way to jail in the US.