Still warping...

[cipher0]

I have a SD4 and I've tried printing with the default aluminum bed with kapton tape on it at 110C. bad wraping and even object unsticking completely during print.
Then got a glass plate on top of it.
Tried printing with hairspray applied. The print is extrmely hard to detach from the bed (glass), but even now the corners deattach and warp during print.
I understand that the center of the bed and edges are not cooled uniformly, but give a break, its not a 8x8 model im printing. the models are not very close to the edges.

What else can I try?
Am I doing something wrong?

[richardphat]

Not all hairspray will work. Overheating the bed will just increase the warping depending on what you print.
Also, your geometry, density and environment are major factors that tends to screw your print. Sometime brim or raft is still not sufficient, you may have to model something that acts like solid base on the bed.

In short, too much things can screw your print.


Can you upload/link to the files you are trying to print?

[jimc]

yes 110 with hairspray is too high. the higher the temp the more gooey it is allowing parts to release. one thing you need to remember is that your not going to stop mother nature. abs WILL shrink as it cools no matter what so either its going to warp OR if tall enough the part will have internal stress and crack. i print roll after roll of abs and my first layer bed temp is 96 then it drops to 90 for the rest of the build. ivd done every print the past year the exact same way. ive tried higher and lower and thats the sweet spot. richard pretty much said everything else. 100% bed contact is important as well. this is all in your z height adjustment.

[cipher0]

Not all hairspray will work.

Which ones do? Are there certain chemicals we know which do the trick? Should I list the ingredients?
Doesnt the fact that the inner parts of models with flat bottoms are very hard to detach and sometimes get damaged when trying to remove show this hairspray is decent?

Overheating the bed will just increase the warping depending on what you print.

What is considered overheating?
What do you mean depending on what I print? Examples?

Sometime brim or raft is still not sufficient, you may have to model something that acts like solid base on the bed.

I dont use rafts/brims.

Also, your geometry, density and environment are major factors that tends to screw your print.

Yes. Can you discuss a bit about how geometry and desnity affect this?
By geometry I just imagine you talk about models with little contact to the bed which is not what im printing.
By density I guess you mean the denser, the more plastic to shrink and so the more likely to warp.

Can you upload/link to the files you are trying to print?

Basically everything Ive tried which is slightly large, which I made myself or downloaded.
for example
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:174383/#files
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:36892
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:35188

yes 110 with hairspray is too high.

Why?
My idea was to go with 110 so the outer parts of the print bed would be at least 80.

the higher the temp the more gooey it is allowing parts to release.

what?

one thing you need to remember is that your not going to stop mother nature. abs WILL shrink as it cools no matter what so either its going to warp OR if tall enough the part will have internal stress and crack.

Jut trying to print what others do without problem.

[richardphat]

Some hairspray has are stickier than others. I for myself use 3Dlac, a spray design for 3D printing, which has been perform best for both PLA and ABS (Doesn't work with nylon though). Much better than the gluestick and kapton tape. In fact, it is quite impressive that it will hold well even on curve glass bed on delta.

When you heat too much, you just go beyond the Glass transition temperature for ABS or PLA. The more you overheat the less "solid" it acts .Italso depends on what you print. I for myself have this warping for overheating the bed. Couple of the blades were warping anf lifted. I had to reduce the bed temperature in order to print this properly.
warpingexample.jpg

Geometry example my venturi flow. Despite the printable objects (once orientated in the good direction). The outer diameter will warp guarenteed on ABS. The area with huge variation of materials such as the bottom will be an indicator of warping. The outer diameter will lift. To counter this, use thick brim.
https://www.youmagine.com/designs/venturi-flow-meter-1-internal-diameter


Note; my case are extreme scenario since I print really big objects or very tall. Having seen the files you have linked, it's less problematic. In this case, the hairspray or your glue or the true temperature on the heated bed is off.

[Davo]

You want a hairspray with acrylates copolymer, but no lubricant.

Aqua Net is perfect for printing ABS at 235C on glass at 60-80C.

[cipher0]

We dont have aqua net here locally. Hear everyone from US talking about it though.

[botfeeder]

It seems you're overheating your bed at 110C. Try tune it down a bit to 100C (aluminum bed with kapton tape). I am sure it is just a calibration problem. If the problem still persist, give a try of other supplier filament. after all it is the filament not stick to the print bed. different supplier will add compound into the plastic. It is possible they add something that cause the plastic to lost its adhesive properties.

I personally don't really like glass bed, it is not a heat conductor compared to aluminum. So you might need to heat it up your bed until the top of the glass reach 100C. wasted too many energy = $.

[Area69]

I was having problems with warping until just recently. I experimented with different things over a two week period.

First I replaced my Kapton tape with blue painters tape. I had several types and some work better than others. I have great results with the standard 3m painters tape. I apply it to the build platform and smooth it down with a soft plastic squeegee. When it gets worn or starts to peel up, I replace it. Which is quick and simple. For me the Kapton tape is just too expensive to keep replacing, and mine was getting damaged all the time. The blue painters tape is easier to work with and cheap, which means I don't mind replacing it when it develops even the slightest wrinkle.

I make a slurry using acetone and some bits of left over ABS from my raft material. I had read about people doing this for a long time but resisted thinking it was just too messy to deal with. When I finally did it I realized it wasn't actually that difficult or messy. I just pour a tiny amount of acetone in a ceramic bowl. sprinkle in a few plastic bits and swish it around with a Q-tip. Then I use the same Q-tip to brush a little on the platform in approximately the area where my print will be. It doesn't have to be exact, and it holds VERY well, so don't over do it.

Lastly, and I think this is likely the most important, get a thermometer and stick it in your build area. I got a meat thermometer, the kind with the wire probe and set the probe inside my build area just hanging in the air. While I was printing it was reading only 77 degrees Fahrenheit or 25 Celsius. That made me realize how stubborn I had been in not building an enclosure. As an experiment I enclosed my build platform with some bits of clear plastic and the temperature shot up to around 115F or 46C. Immediately I noticed an improvement in my prints. So now I'm in the process of building a more permanent enclosure, with doors for easy access.

Really I guess it's common sense. The thermodynamic properties of the plastic are what allow us to shape it, so having it hot at the base of the platform and cold at the top, just naturally cases it to warp. That's been my experience at least. Hope you find a solution soon.

[GOC]

- If its not in an enclosure, it should be. After a fight with Flex EcoPLA I've learned controlling the air temperature around the part is very important. (some tips can be found here)