home business - 3d printing - most versatile printer?

[weldingrod]

Hello, and sorry for the loaded topic, but I appreciate any insight.
I have read about a few different printer types and I was hoping you could help narrow the field of focus for my research regarding a potential business investment in a 3d printer.

Lets just say I want to be able to make black plastic parts that are functional in design for a business/self employment.
Since I would like to work from home for the next couple of years I'm looking for ways to offer unique parts/products/services to make income. I realize the printer in itself may not be my sole tool for profit, but I think it could open the opportunity for more designs, and could be a tool to foster more design ideas.
I also have the ability to fabricate metal (cut, machine, and weld to a certain extend) and can purchase motors and other electronics to make assemblies.

I don't have all the designs or niche's in mind yet, but in general I'm of an engineering mind set, and I would look to make functional parts for niche applications. For example a mounting bracket for a go-pro on a boat or motor cycle, a fishing rod holder/bracket, a phone or other electronic device mounting or housing, etc. Mounting besel for a gauge or go fast electronic parts on go fast machines, a speaker mount for a niche application. I have no knowledge of art, and no experience making sculptures or jewelry so I don't foresee that type of usage.

I'm new to 3d modeling and plan to use a free and easy to use software to get started, but I have alot of experience as an engineer working on design review of 2d drawings and generally understand the design process, stack-up tolerace, GDT etc. I was just not the designer making the step files for modeling, etc.

I have the ability to fabricate things out of metal and wood, or build some electronic circuitry and I'm hoping all of these things together will allow me to build devices or add-on's for hobbyists, enthusiasts, sports, etc. I believe that some of my parts will be very similar to those that are already out there, but have very unique fitment for special applications. Also I hope to have very unique designs for some applications after digging in deeper. I can also foresee some business from local companies whom would just rather buy the part from someone local and from someone they can talk to locally or at least within the same state. I hope over time to gain alot of word of mouth business from many local companies.

So with that in mind I don't have alot of start-up capital so looking for the best bang for the buck printer that produces solid results. I want to build parts that are accurate to the design, and although I realize there may be some learning curve to the calibration of the software/process/equipment I want something that is guaranteed to produce a good part after said calibration. I don't want to invest in something that I have to hack into the software and modify the code and have no guarantee that my time is not wasted. I realize it takes extra time to 3-d print, i.e. compared to a metal stamped massed produced part, and I understand it is those lower-volume niche's need to be found to make it profitable.

At this point I have no idea what the material cost is to build something the size of a stand to set an smart phone on, or a phone case, and I'm not clear on what machines to investigate more closely. I'd be curious to see some examples just to get an idea of material cost and "fair" 3d printer cost is. Besides material cost, I assume some are factoring in cost of electricity to run the equipment for hours on end to build a part? Has anyone drafted a basic and general business case for building parts from a specific printer?

Next I'd also be curious to find out how strong of a part can be made, i.e. for a mounting device of some kind. (feasible material, its properties, potential size and thickness, etc).
I don't want to be sorry I didn't spend $500 more to get the printer that was more modular, future proof, durable, etc, and maybe now is the wrong time to buy because some major advances are being released in the next months?????

I guess at this point I have more questions than answers, thanks for any information

[richardphat]

Your investment has lot of potential, you are basically selling ideas by making prototype. Now, just to encourage you, my tutor was doing self employment and manage to get a deal of 30k$, and the amount of material spend for the printers you may ask? Under 400$. Of course he bought the printer previously.

Now on topic.

Imho, you will have to hack into the printers no matter which printers you get unless we're talking about big boys from Stratasys, 3D System and other brand.

Typical consumer desktop printer, whether, proprietary or open source will likely require hack in the hardware or electronics for repairing at some point. Just watch the news with the replicator 5th gen fiasco, it's load of fail. If you want a robust 3D printer I suggest the ultimaker, affinia/up series. Geoff or aard suggest Tinkerine printer for new starter. Those printers can print plastic for general purpose. You don't have to worry much about the material cost, unlike other technology such as SLA or SLS.

You happen to be lucky. I am currently printing dog bones for tensile strength test, now I just need to find some bench and test them. I plan to publish the experiment on either elsevier or springerlink.

[curious aardvark]

Geoff or aard suggest Tinkerine

never heard of them - I would suggest a flashforge creator pro.

Now as for materials a basic fff can handle (takes a deep breath to do this in one go):
pla, pla plus & max (tougher, bendier, stronger), abs, abs plus (less warp and shrink), pet, pet+, nylon (several types), carbon fibre infused filaments, copper and bronze infused filaments, flexible pla (bends doesn't stretch) ninja flex and fila flex - strong and stretchy and bendy. I can't really tell them apart once printed, wood infused filaments, bamboo infused filaments, chalk and brick infused filaments, polymakr non-wood infused wood like filament, filaments that change characteristic when wetted - both to make tougher and more porous, kevlar and carbon fibre strengthened parts. Filaments that change characteristic depending on how hot they are printed, support filaments that can be dissolved and peeled, filaments that change colour through heat or through exposure to uv light, conductive filaments, glow in the dark filament. And most of these come in a rainbow of colours plus clear.
And more seem to be added every week !

Now some - the carbon fibre and kevlar based materials can only be printed on specific printers (mark forge). Not to be confused with carbon fibre infused filament that can be printed on any fff printer.

Build Volume: well machines go from 4x4x4 inches all the way up to 1.5x1.5x1.5 metres square (that's over 100'000 bucks though) a more budget version can be had for $10,000 from pdp unlimited that's 1x1x0.5 metres. Large enough to make parts for bikes, cars, full size cosplay costumes (big money area apparently).

So for a beginner a fff machine shows the most versatility. And definitely a greater ability to try out different materials for a minimal outlay.

I've gone right off abs since I've started using pla.
Pla is a little stiffer - but other than that I haven't noticed any negative points. Abs is a bastard to print cleanly and un-warped and shrinks.
Pla prints without warping and doesn't shrink - so the dimensions you want are what you get. Down to 100th of a millimeter.

I like the creator pro's as they are cheap, easy to use, dual extruder, enclosed for better abs, heavy duty printbed, metal case, yada yada yada
Check out some of serenas abs prints - stuff I can only do in pla.

Okay you're limited to a print volume of 9x6x6 - although I'm confident I can squeeze out 13x6x6 with a larger printbed and some careful dual extruding design.

That said there are some nice deltas around with much larger print volumes for similiar money.

But for a starter - you defintiely want an fff based system.

The resin based sla machines are currently limited in materials and the resins are quite expensive in comparison to pla or abs.
And the machines themselves are molre fiddly when things go wrong, with less easy to fix bits.
That said, they can do really fine details. So if you were into jewellery - sla would offer benefits that fff doesn't.

For engineering and practical parts - fff is currently the best and most versatile budget process.

If you've got serious money then you can look at laser sintered nylon machines and resin and powder based systems and metal sintered systems.
But we are talking proper money there.

So for someone wanting to get to grips with 3d printing. The cheapest and most versatile setup is a decent fff machine.
I don't honestly think there's anything else out there at the moment that can meet all the features of the creator pro for the same money.

Phew - now that was a marathon :-)

[3DPBuser]

You will only want to use ABS or PET.

Also, for electricity, my understanding is that it's not a big factor. Biggest factor appears to be time.

[richardphat]

We also haven't talk about the temperature usage. It's one big thing in there.
Glass transition blows!

[weldingrod]

We also haven't talk about the temperature usage. It's one big thing in there.
Glass transition blows!

yeah I'm concerned about making a part out of filament that is going on a boat or the dashboard of a car that sits in the sun all day, and the part is warped by the sun. No good. Seems a printer with a wider range of materials looks like a better option. I really appreciate all of the advice.

I think I will hold off on buying any used printers for 10,000k which have more capabilities, i.e. larger size or resins, etc. I will wait on anything like that until I have an actual design that merits the business case to use such a tool.

I will start looking into the FFF (fused filament fabrication) options then as a tool to get me started.

Regarding size 13x6x6 does seem alot more appealing for flexibility and I can envision a few items that I may run into a need to do something larger than 8.9" length at some point.
I saw the flashforge creator pro, about $1349 doesn't seem too bad comparatively.
What do you think about the dreamer? seams to be a similar machine....it maxes at 9.1" length and has wifi capability for the same price. It as a 100-200 micron range, vs 100 to 300 of the creator pro.

Another option I'm looking at with a larger plate (volume) is the Lulzbot Taz 4, don't know much about it I see it is limited to one print head, although I'm not sure I need to print more than one color at this point. It seems to support also a broad range of materials, and also can get down to 75 micron resolution. Any thoughts on that one? the software seems fairly user friendly based on reviews. I have read about others which also have larger volume and dual or triple print heads with good reviews, but they require buying proprietary cartriges to get the materials. (I'll skip those).

The ultimaker 2 seems to get down to finer resolutions. 20 micron and I'm not too keen on the makerbot closed source type stuff. Thanks for the insight.

[johnschneider89]

Hey Weldingrod,

I'd recommend the TAZ 4, for sure. Aside from seeming to meet your size requirements (it's 11.7" x 10.8" x 9.8"), they're constantly innovating, plus everything they do is open source. It has a HUGE variety of materials it can work with, including Polycarbonate, Nylon, ABS, Ninjaflex, etc.

I was just at LulzBot HQ yesterday (shameless plug, I'm one of their resellers - Fargo 3D Printing) and they have a kit they're putting together for doing dual extrusion. I don't know how useful two-color is, but the ability to use a dissolvable support material, like PVA, will certainly be handy.

[awerby]

Have you had a chance to try out that Lulzbot kit yet? I'm adamant about not getting a FFF printer that can't print with soluble supports; how close is this to reality in the consumer realm? Some say they've made it work, but nobody's showing any pictures of it actually happening. Does PVA have a problem sticking to PLA? Is the problem with the software? Or are these soluble plastics not really available in filament form?

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[johnschneider89]

Not the dual extruder kit. Have you considered a MakerBot Replicator 2X? It uses HIPS as a dissolveable support material, we've used that with pretty good results. The HIPS peels off very nicely from the ABS, or it will dissolve in Technical Grade D-Limonene.

[curious aardvark]

You will only want to use ABS or PET.

Also, for electricity, my understanding is that it's not a big factor. Biggest factor appears to be time.

Why ?
abs has so many drawbacks. For the vast majority of applications pla is much better. Pet is still quite pricey.
Novelty filament types would create models with greater retail potential.

As for pva and hips - they're readily available in filament format.

Can't see an issue with printing with pva filament. Buying sinkfuls of limonene on the other hand, does seem a bit much for a home user.

polymakr has a peelable support material. I haven't tried it yet but they've had good results.