Tough 3D printer choice

[Diginet]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for a new 3D printer to purchase. I already have an idea of which printers interest me as I had all the time to make my researches and view different opinions on the web.
3 years ago I've bought a 3D printer kit, the Reprap i3 Rework 1.5, which I've learned a lot from. However, the printer is a real mess, as it has a not-as-tough-as-expected frame (Y axe is really some metal sticks attached by 3D printed parts and some nuts), not to mention the loos electronics in the air and the awful cable management and the loos power supply. Simply put, it was a kit.
I'm actually afraid to power it up, as I'm a little bit afraid it will burst on fire (yeah, I'm exaggerating here, but you get the idea).

So I've started to look for a (semi-)pro printer to buy and to make it my main printer to use.

First of all, here's some primal information I would like to communicate:

• Budget: 2500 euros,
• Filament types: PLA, ABS, Flexible, Nylon, PETG, exotics (for the price, I really want to have the freedom to chose),
• Enclosure: Absolutely (I'm aware of the fact that the printers I'm going to list are semi-closed, but they can easly be sealed, because of their structure),
• Open-source/materials : Absolutely,
• Which uses: General creation (I've started to learn Fusion 360 and Blender, which I really intend to continue, and not only because of 3D printing), Home uses and (anime) based figures (yeah yeah, I know what you're thinking, but I've seen wonderful FDM/FFF prints of figures, and I'm intending to purchase a DLP/LCD low-cost printer <Kubo3D Bean> to complete prints with too small details which cannot be done with FFF tech).

My list resume of the next two, which I struggle to choose from because I've read some really good things and really bad things about one of them, but it has a special feature I really like (I'm adding '+' indications which will allow better understanding of what interests me in the printer):

1. BCN3D Sigma
   
   - Open source (+++++),
   - Print head changement (+++) <shame the heads are not using standard nozzles to swipe like in the Olsson-block, and cannot be purchased anywhere. Real minus on that part>,
   - (almost entirely) Closed metal solid frame (+++++) <For ABS like materials and can be closed to block fumes>,
   - Dual extrusion IDEX (+++++),
   --> (Real) Multi-materials (+++++),
   - Prints quality (++++) <good but not as well as the UM2+ print quality>,
   - User-friendly interface (++++),
   - Listen to their costumers (+++++) <But lack of seeing people want swippable nozzles..>.
2. Ultimaker 2+
   
   - Open source (+++++),
   - Huge and open community (++++),
   - Nozzles changement (+++++) <Can swift to Ruby nozzle, hardened nozzles and find almost any nozzle you can dream of, such as 0,15 mm nozzles>,
   - (almost entirely) Closed solid frame (+++++) <For ABS like materials and can be closed to block fumes>,
   - Almost every part can be found on the market and so can easly be modded and repeared by myself (+++++) <nozzles can be found easly>,
   --> Less restrictive reparations than the Sigma (++++),
   - Print quality (+++++) <I've seen prints that may challenge DLP/SLA prints quality (yeah, I know I'm a bit exagering here, but some prints I've seen have almost no layers sign on them) better than the Sigma print quality>,
   - Strong demand (+++) <In case I would need to sell it, I could easly find people to buy it in not so low price>.

To summarize, what interests me the most is the possibility to print the best quality prints I could find on an FDM/FFF printer, and not be dependant on the sellers in case of problem. Nozzle changement is a feature I'm really interested on (which the Sigma lacks of proposing), but in the other hand, dual IDEX extrusion is a huge plus (which the UM2+ doesn't propose).
I bet you understand my frustration in this case, it's not really a simple choice for me because I really don't intend to have multiples printers over time (2 are the limit, one FFF and the other DLP/LCD to ultra fine prints).

What I'm interested on is an honest opinions from you guys. Maybe some of them have one of the printers and could upload some close-up photos of the prints in order to see the maximal quality the printers are capable of. If I'm lucky enouth, maybe some of you have them both and could make my mind clear about this choice.

Anyway, I thank you guys of you reading this (huge) comment, and I'm sorry about the size of it.
I thank everyone who would reply here and gives their opinions!

[curious aardvark]

Of those 2 get the bnc3d - no question.
Great machines.
Ultimaker's - particularly the new ones - are very expensive for what you get.
The rest of the 3d printer world seems to have moved on more than ultimaker who just seem to like putting the prices up.
Pretty sure nozzles on the sigma are just standard nozzles. unscrew old one, screw in new one.

something else you might want to look at: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FORM...814282571.html

basically gives you the idex print heads, but much much larger print volume, plus auto calibration etc.
Full open source system and comes in a few easy to assemble parts.

4040 aluminium extrusion is seriously heavy duty stuff too !

Oh yeah and it's cheaper than the other 2 as well :-)
The full spec kit with Hi-temperature extruders (up to 350c) and a laser engraver is just over $2000
Got to factor in import tax - but should still end up cheaper than the other two by some margin.

Would probably be easish to enclose.

Having seen most 3d printers regularly at the tct show.
If I had the money the formbot trex 2+ is most likely where I'd invest it.

[Diginet]

Hello aardvark,

First of all, thank you very much about your comment and suggestions, as well as for you to actually being interested in this post and for reading my loooong message.

So, it's true that FORMBOT T-Rex 2+ is really seductive. However, as indicated, I had a bad first experience with Reprap like (moving bed in Y axe) printers, so I'm pretty much evading this kind of printers as I could.
Plus, I'm really interested on the enclosed printers feature, which allows to print ABS much easier, and allows the user to have some kind of filtering system to avoid breathing plastic particles and odors.

It's true that the UM are not really innovating right now, but it's popular. Which means it has a good community (easier to find help in case of problem), has more choice of parts in the market (ebay and Chinese websites are full of low cost nozzles and replacement parts, not to mention other serious websites) and can be sold easier (if one day I would like to change it for something better).
Plus, I've seen better prints quality for the UM2+.

However, for the price, I agree, there are much more innovating printers than the UM2+. Especially that I've found a BCN3D Sigma +17 that that has the same price as the UM2+.

However, I'm pretty sure the nozzles of the Sigma are taller than the E3D or the UM ones.

Again, thank you for the comment

[curious aardvark]

well out of the two - the sigma is the better machine.
Nozzles are nozzles - someone on ebay will sell them for a few pence each :-)

Also if you're one of these die hard abs nutcases, why not simply acetone smooth ?
:-)

[Diginet]

I'll probably go for the Sigma. The FORMBOT T-Rex 2+ is still really interesting for it dimensions, 1.75mm filament&direct drive and it price. If it had an enclosure, I would probably run for it. Is it optional hot temperature extruder really works without changing the voltage? That's a point that neither, the UM2+ nor the Sigma have.

One of the reasons I am actually interested in an enclosed printer is to be able to print in ABS for this type of reaons
Plus the fact that the UM2+ & Sigma have their bed only moving up and down (z axe only), which increase the resolution it can print in, and don't makes the prints to move (may be problematic).

Again, thank you for your support

[curious aardvark]

think you'll find that the sigma and trex have the same vertical resolution. then um2 I believe claims 0.02mm resolution.

If that kind of resolution matters so much - why not simply go sla ?

[Diginet]

There are some reasons under my decision to not go for SLA.
- I want to have the possibility to create big prints, which current SLA printers lack of,
- Be able to print with many types of materials, and if possible, with multiple at the same time,
- FFF/FDM prints are much more robust than their SLA counterpart prints, unless you purchase the most expensive resins, but that would cost and an arm and a leg, unlike the FFF/FDM materials,
- SLA printers are much more expensive than FFF/FDM printers: Starting with the consommables themselves, and passing by the buckets (need to change them regularly as they tend to be clouded).

I'm however interested in SLA/DLP technologies as well, because I actually dream of printing customizable figurines (which I find marvellous). This is why I backed-up the Kubo3D Bean printer on kickstarter. It's the same company that created the Titan, so I'm confident that this will not be a scam (they actually update regularly, and are in pass to send them to the backers). This way I could judge by myself if I should move on to SLA printer (such as the Peopoly Moai printer) or not; depending on the experience I would have.

I'm precising that I want the best FFF/FDM resolution because I've seen some amazing print quality (of some artists that have the UM2, that's one of the reasons why I'm interested in it so much), but I'm aware it could not have the same resolution as an SLA printer.

EDIT (2018/03/31):

I've just found this interview of Thomas, which interviewed E3D about their incoming new innovations.
Watch the interview here.
In two words, awesome news!
They are going to release (4-5 months) a new system which will propose a swappable multi-heads capability. From what I've saw, they are having in mind to make this a new standard in the open-source community.
Now, this slightly changes the game, as this is much more powerful than the current version of FFF printers, as proposed by the current iterations from both, Ultimaker and BCN3D (not mentioning all the others such as Prusa and the chineses based companies).
What do you think about this?

[curious aardvark]

for some reason that video won't ply on this computer.

Plenty of systems with interchangeable heads around. Hardly a game changer.

The whole smooth print thing just isn't something I really see much point in. But then I mainly make practical things, so performance is more important to me than appearance (actually that's probably true for everything i do in life lol)

That said I will be getting a monoprice mini delta when they're available in the uk. primarily to slap a 0.25mm nozzle on and use for tiny and intricate prints.

sla resins have really come on in the last couple of years. But yep very expensive.