Pet+ as a good alternative to ABS

[atoff]

I think it was a mistake to say issue, because no, I agree with what you're saying. What I should have said, was that it's probably the reason it's not used primarily in place of ABS or PLA. Many seem to be printing for fun... little knick knacks here and there, and just making random fun little objects in order to play with their printers... so it makes sense to go with the filament that's half the cost. Why burn through expensive filament when there's no need? Even when it comes to prototyping something that won't really be used.

For parts, I think it looks great. I'll probably be picking some up once I've assembled my printer and have had a chance to get comfortable with ABS / PLA.

[RobH2]

I have some tests now and I'm finding that slicers make a big difference. I was using Cura 14.03 for my initial prints and they weren't looking very good. I tried Slic3r in Pronterface and I'm zeroing in on it now. Even comparing apples to apples, the left image is Cura and the middle image is Slic3r with the same settings. What a difference. The right image is even better as I pulled the Slic3r 'Extrusion multiplier' back to .97 from 1.0. That cleaned up some of what was overshoot on the material as Jim was suspicious of. I'm still getting random odd areas. The funky area under the end of the hands is really sloppy but that could be partly due to the fact that it want some support and I didn't use any to see what would happen. The green arrows point out really nice resolution and extrusion while the red arrow point out problems that need some attention.

But, based on these tests right now, I'll have to say that I like Pet+. I think I'll keep it in my arsenal. I want to print some bars with ABS, PLA and Pet+ and do some bend tests to see how they each fail but Pet+ seems to be a nice material.


Pet+_Print_[SlicerCompare]_01.jpg


I'm also getting the random brown or burned looking spots that make a temporary defect and then it goes away. That happens no matter what slicer I'm using. I'm not sure what that is. It almost seems like some filament is getting trapped in the hot end and burning and then at some point it gets pushed out and makes a flaw. Not sure about that.

Pet+_Print_[N-2]_burn_1_s.jpg

[RobH2]

atoff, I totally agree with what you are saying. That's part of the fun is that we have so many filaments to pick from to be used for the most appropriate purpose. You are correct though, if you have both ABS and Pet+ and it's something that you don't need to waste your good stuff on, then there's not need to.

What excites me is that when I bought my Makerfarm i3 last year it was listed as only being able to print ABS and PLA and one of the hot ends would not even print PLA. So, I ordered a 2nd one that could. With the same hot end I'm now printing ABS, PLA, Pet+ and Nylon. All are printing well. I look forward to getting some Filaflex or one of the other flexible filaments next.

[jimc]

atoff, no matter what product in this world we are using there are 2 prices for it. a price to buy it and a price to use it. 99% of the public sees one thing...price to buy it. unfortunately the price to buy something makes no difference. its what it cost to use it that makes a difference. i have a trash can here full of failed abs prints from warping or something else over the last 6mos. since i got my settings all tweaked for the pet+ i have not had a single failure. so the price difference of the pet+ to abs is about a wash if you take all that into acct plus the wasted energy the printer uses, etc. with all that said though, if you dont use the items you print and they are just little knick knacks that sit on a shelf or some other static object then print it with pla. that would definately be cheaper. all my items are functional to some degree so i never print pla. it has always been abs. now i have basically just totally switched to pet and the overall cost hasnt changed much. i will still use abs on occasion if i am looking for a specific color or property that abs can give me.


rob, still looks like a bit too much material. your gettin there though. just keep adjusting and running test prints to see what works. some of that stuff as you said could be from too much overhang with no support. i have not tried the white. i have a roll on the way and will probably be here tomorrow. black and clear i can print flawlessly. i will try the white with the same black settings i use and let you know if its the same.

[RobH2]

Yea Jim I look forward to that comparison of black to white. I'm having strange issues. It dialed my 'Extrusion multiplier' back far enough that the first layers don't touch now so there is too little material flowing but I'm getting globs. I'll do more diagnosing. I am curious how the white prints for you.

I've checked over everything. Belts are tight, machine is sound, extruder good (when I code a 20mm extrusion, I extrude 20.3mm...so that's good). Fans are going and everything looks good. I keep making small tweaks. I'll eventually get it.

[jimc]

yeah you'll get it. i wish i could be more help but im not familiar with slic3r or any of the other software out there. i have always used s3d since that is what most of the makergear community uses. you can slowly bump your temp down 5deg at a time. i really dont know what kind of ooze control parameters slic3r has to tell you to tweak. from a comparison its oozy like nylon so if your have ver printed nylon, try to mimic those settings. there are alot of guys on the makergear google group using the pet+. let me see if any of them are using slic3r and ill get back to you.

[RobH2]

I think I've gotten about as good as I can get for now. I think I have a roll of filament with an amount of contamination. I keep getting these "burnouts" in every print. It's like there is a rogue material in the filament that melts at a much lower temperature and when in the hotend it scorches. Then when it is extruded it has much different properties and color and makes a globby, swollen, brown bad spot. I'm going to see if the manufacturer agrees and will replace it.

Here is a photo of the good results I'm getting so far. This image is also a good demonstration of how "Layer Height" affects resolution.
Pet+_Print_LayerHeightComparison_s.jpg

Here is a photo of my "burnout" problem. Each of these shots was taken from a different print so it's happening consistently.
BurnoutProblems.jpg

[jimc]

keep in mind rob this can be prior material in you hot end that is coming out and now that you say that, it does look like it. when we switch plastics in our extruders they dont always mix well together. if you have abs in there and there is a nice coating on the inside of the brass feed tube. when you put a new plastic in that abs is still coating the walls of the tube. as you print that abs sits there cooking for hours on end and it will also harden which makes the hot end tight. it can eventually get tight enough where you get clicking or feed problems. occasionally some dislodges and comes out with the new plastic which is what your seeing there and why it looks all burnt. i switch plastics alot and i do have to clean out my hot end and nozzle often. if you have never cleaned it then im sure your due. before you do anything, pull the nozzle and brass tube off the machine and soak it in a little paint stripper. the methylene chloride will dissolve, pla, pet and abs. basically everything except nylon. let it sit a few hours then rinse, blow out, run a pipe cleaner through the tube, etc.

[RobH2]

Will do Jim. Great suggestion. I don't change filament much but have on occasion over the past few months. I've had no issues like this so I assumed that after a few meters whatever residual old plastic that was in the hotend was pushed out. I didn't realize it could stick around and cook. I'll definitely clean my head and see if I still get the issue. If I do what a newly cleaned head then I know it's the filament.

[jimc]

yes rob most definitely. a few meters wont push it all out all the time. it really depends on the plastic. i even have some issues with a couple rolls of abs here i have. when i go from this one specific color to another of abs and its from the same manufacturer, i will have a problem. really though its just good housekeeping to occasionally clean the hot end. what i am going to do here as soon as makergear releases their new hot end is order one for each plastic type so i can swap real quick.

just goto home depot and get some zip-strip to soak the metal parts in. no plastic in that please