Recomend printer? Noob w/ spacific needs & budget.

[ScaleModelBuilder]

Hello all! I'm new to both this forum & 3d printing. I have been shopping around for my first 3d printer, and am quite surprised by the wide variety on the market. Can I get some answers & recommendations from those more experienced than I am? I have questions regarding printers, scanners and capabilities of both. I know there's a lot of question that I'm asking, so please bear with me. I build full blown custom scale model cars for a hobby (1:25 scale) and want to use a 3d printer to make 1 of a kind custom parts & bodies. I have 30 years experience with building models, and think that 3d printers can take my hobby in a whole new direction. I have limited experience with CAD & blueprints so I can probably handle the design end of 3d printing.

First question: Model car bodies can be quite thin, in some areas they can tapper to less than 1 MM in thickness. The thicker areas are usually no more than a couple MM in thickness. Can I print a body? I'm thinking there would be warping & rigidity issues. Can this be addressed by reinforcing the body with some sort of gusset during the printing process? Reinforcements that can be removed after printing? Any suggestions for making something so thin that wont get warped or twisted?

Second question: Models can have very small & fine detail, such as emblems, lettering, moldings, locks, ect. What is the likelihood of being able to successfully print such small details?

Third question: In addition to printing bodies, I also want to print parts such as engine blocks, carbs, air cleaners, seats, wheels, superchargers, mirrors, ect. These parts can get pretty small. Can 3d printers make a model car part as small as a 1/4 of an inch & still show good detail?

fourth question: Would the 3d scanner in the XYZ Da Vinci AiO printer with the built in scanner be able to pick up on the fine details of model car bodies & parts (such as the details of an engine block, or the lettering, door jambs, or moldings of a model car body)? or would I be better off with a separate scanner.

fifth question: If a separate scanner is better, then which one would work best for fine details?

sixth question: Can someone recommend some CAD software that will work with both the printer & scanner?

Printer requirements so far:
1. print size of 8 inches long x 4 inched wide x 4 inches tall for a car body.
2. minimum print size for car parts would be 1/4 inch
3. My budget for a printer is no more than $700. But obviously, the cheaper, the better.
4. not interested in building a printer (d.i.y kit). Looking for plug & play.
5. No need for duel filament printers. Single color / material is fine.
6. PLA is fine, no need for ABS or exotic filaments.
7. since I am a rookie, I think the "simpler is better" approach is the way to go. So a printer that is not excessively complicated is a good idea. I'm no dummy & I'm quite familiar with machinery, but, with all the learning I have to do with 3d printing, I'm looking to simplify things if possible.
8. which printer is my best option?
9. which scanner is my best option?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions here, but I do have specific needs with a 3d printer. Just trying to avoid buying the wrong one.

I think my biggest issue is the fine detail in print quality, and of course, an affordable price.

Any answers & help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[cmot]

I don't know that much about scanners, but there are a lot of requirements you have. It is hard to get good accuracy and an 8x4x4 build size for under $700. I would definitely take a look at this. The Printrbot Simple fits all of your requirements except for build size (It's 6"x6"x6"). The Zortrax M200 is exactly what you want except that it is $2,000. My advice is to wait a year or two and watch the price go down. A year ago, a printer with a 5x5x5 build volume was about $1,000, and now you can get one for $400.

[ScaleModelBuilder]

I don't know that much about scanners, but there are a lot of requirements you have. It is hard to get good accuracy and an 8x4x4 build size for under $700. I would definitely take a look at this. The Printrbot Simple fits all of your requirements except for build size (It's 6"x6"x6"). The Zortrax M200 is exactly what you want except that it is $2,000. My advice is to wait a year or two and watch the price go down. A year ago, a printer with a 5x5x5 build volume was about $1,000, and now you can get one for $400.

I was looking at the printerbot simple as one of the printers I am interested in, so we are on the same page on that. The simple comes standard with a 6x6x6 bed for $600. As a $125 upgrade, they offer a 10x6x6 bed. With this upgrade, this printer fits my size & price requirements. Have you (or anyone else reading this) used the printerbot simple? How good is it for fine detail? Quality? Customer support?
Thanks for the reply!

[cmot]

Cool! I never knew about the bed upgrade! I have used a Printrbot Simple, although I have a MakerBot Replicator Mini. I would not reccomend a MakerBot, though. I've had to many problems with extruders jamming. The Printrbot has pretty good detail, although like I said, it is hard to get amazing detail with a 3D printer. To answer some of your other questions, something that is 1mm thin would print, but would be pretty flimsy. The Printrbot Simple uses Cura as their software, and that works pretty well and is easy to use. If you had a perfectly calibrated printer, like Make: does, you could get results like the spaceman on this page. That model probably used supports (Stuff that the printer prints to support overhangs) which would take some time to get off. Try looking at the 3D view on the Make: page. I have not had any experience with Printrbot customer support because I don't own one.

[curious aardvark]

first off - you're going to need to spend more than $700

secondly it sounds like you're one of these detail obsessives we get round here so you'll most likely only be happy with a resin based sla machine.

Which will definitely do everything you want it to.

secondly - scanners, just aren't quite there yet. I have high hopes that when the intel real sense setup starts appearing on mid range tablets - hopefully this year sometime - we'll finally start to see some easy to use and quality scanning software appear to work with the system.

As things stand today, you'd be much better suited working on your cad skills.

the autodesk suite of programs - including scanning software that works with a conventional camera - is very good and pretty comprehensive.
http://www.123dapp.com/

On the print size side of things. I print stuff with 1mm (actually 1.2 which is 3 x 0.4mm layers or 4x 0.3mm - depending whether it's a horrizontal or vertical layer) a fair bit. And it's pretty strong. 2mm thick parts are very strong.

[cmot]

As a $125 upgrade, they offer a 10x6x6 bed.

By the way- you said that the X axis upgrade was $125, but that is only with the heated bed. You can get it for $99 without a heated bed and you only need a heated bed for printing with ABS.

[curious aardvark]

well a heated bed makes printing with a wide variety of filaments - including pla - much easier.

So if you go fff then I would consider a heated bed essential.

But for what you want, sla is going to be better - just more expensive, both for the machines and the resin. But it will do tiny detailed models. And cuts right down on post processing.

But if you absolutely can't manage more than $700 - then a printrbot is a very good choice.

[cmot]

Whoah! I just realized you could get a Printrbot Play, and get the y axis upgrade, and it would meet your requirements! That only amounts to $450 without a heated bed, or $475 with a heated bed! It would have a 4x8x5 build volume! http://printrbot.com/shop/play-y-axi...-bed-optional/ http://printrbot.com/shop/assembled-printrbot-play/ EDIT: The printrbot play also comes with the new version of the printrbot extruder, which makes it a lot more reliable.

[curious aardvark]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printer-L...IAAOSw2XFUZcbh

this is a decent machine - basically a replicator clone with just the one extruder. metal frame, decent build volume and lcd screen so you can run it without being connected to the computer. Which as far as I can see none of the printrbots have.
For me that's a pretty crucial omission. For anything that's going to take more than about 20 minutes I always print from the sd card.
Means I can switch the computer off and leave the printer to it.
ALso means the only thing you need to use the printer is a single power outlet.

And printing a full shell for a car will take a few hours :-)

[ScaleModelBuilder]

I've been watching the Printerbot videos on Youtube, and like what I see so far. Also like the 50 micron print resolution. Looks to be an American company, but have not verified that yet. The CEO is the one doing the vids, he looks / sounds American. I mention this because I am hoping to avoid a Chinese manufacturer, which is what I've been finding with a lot of the cheaper 3d printers. The Printerbot Play, with the upgrades is defiantly on my short list. With the price coming in WAY under budget, I may just have enough $$$ to get a 3d scanner as well!

I would love to get some feedback from someone who has actually owned, or at least used, a Printerbot.

Thanks for all the responces to my post!