Parameters to choose printer for new business

[davide445]

Planning the opening of a new service, focused on professional and next industrial market.

Assembling personnel with both solid modelling and design experience, we are pushing hard to have a good choice of the first printer, will start with a midrange FFF/FDM and next specialize and grow to professional models.

Focusing on FFF/FDM tech in the $3.000<price<$10.000 region you can find a lot of printers. We did learn a lot but still every day we did discover something new.

Drivers for the choice are max flexibility to serve a region with small 0.5 Mil population and not so many big industries and push for professional brand.
In our idea this mean searching for: biggest possible build size, broader possible material support, resolution, reliability, support from manufacturer.

Looking only at some parameters (building size, materials) we shorten the list to: DeltaWASP 4070, Leapfrog Creatr XL, Rokit 3dison H700
But other interesting one are: German RepRap X400 CE PRO Edition, Meccatronicore 300 EVO H, Gimax 3D S2, 3ntr A2v2, Kora AlphaMax....

So what do we need to care on? Nozzle size? Mechanism building quality? Filament size? Nozzle max temp? N° extruders? Bed max temp? Other?

[LambdaFF]

Hi,
I don't know in which part of the world you're in but Rokit, Leapfrog and the others are in very different parts of the word.
-> I would suggest choosing a place from which you get spares without too high a postage fee.
-> Also, support will be better if they have a support hub close to you.

I haven't used any of the machines you mention, but I think that probably you'll get same quality from lower cost machines.

Leapfrog and others bundle their products with Simply3D, I think that is very sensible and you should look into that too.

Nozzle size is not a major issue : most OEMs have a catalogue of various sizes of nozzles that you can use. If they don't have it in catalogue, might be a pita to find a compatible one though. Bear in mind that for "softer" metals (brass), or with aggressive filaments (carbon filled) this is a consumable item.

You should try and select all-metal hotends : this opens up more possibilities for materials. For nylons, PET, ... you need something that can go up to 260°C, not possible with 1st gen hotends that have PTFE linings (limited to 240°C), for PC, PEEK, you need something that can go over 300°C (and thereofre your all metal hot end needs a special thermistor and a board that can handle the amperage), but that is way above most people's needs, even pros.

Bowden type extruders are often pointed out as more difficult with flexible filaments (I wouldn't know, I have a direct drive machine), but they have the reputation to be faster and slightly more precise. A trade off ? I say that because a lot of the models you pointed out are bowden.

Multiple extrusion machines are useful for soluble supports, colors ... etc but they are more difficult to setup and use. You should gauge your customers' proficiency adequately or be sure you can support them yourself.

If you look into the forums and google groups you'll see that some companies have :
- no support whatsoever.
- community support
- an online helpdesk.
As a pro, the 1st 2 types may be unappropriate, depending on your own skillset.

Reliability : hard to say really, I would advise you make your own research. I would also advise avoiding new models of less than 6 months in the market, some things have a history of being finalized by the customer.

Build volumes... how big would your customers actually need ? If 95% of the time their prints are within 25cm cubed, don't go too big.

Perhaps you should consider other brands. Printrbot has proven reliable for me. Hyrel is very present here as well.

[davide445]

Hi,
.....

You should try and select all-metal hotends : this opens up more possibilities for materials. For nylons, PET, ... you need something that can go up to 260°C, not possible with 1st gen hotends that have PTFE linings (limited to 240°C), for PC, PEEK, you need something that can go over 300°C (and thereofre your all metal hot end needs a special thermistor and a board that can handle the amperage), but that is way above most people's needs, even pros.

Bowden type extruders are often pointed out as more difficult with flexible filaments (I wouldn't know, I have a direct drive machine), but they have the reputation to be faster and slightly more precise. A trade off ? I say that because a lot of the models you pointed out are bowden.

.....

Build volumes... how big would your customers actually need ? If 95% of the time their prints are within 25cm cubed, don't go too big.

Thanks for your answer.
How do you find the extrudrers type? Any available DB or just info spreading over the community?
A question about hotends: one of these printers did reach 415° on the hotend and does have water cooled extruders, meaning this is better than others?
Did also use 2.85mm filament, does make any difference vs the more standard 1.75mm?
About bid volumes: bigger possible building volumes does have impact in other specs? Meaning: if we didn't loose anything and only add flexibility is a plus for us.

[curious aardvark]

Lambda pretty much covered it.

for extruder type you check the manufacturer's website.

Filament diameter wise - you can get every kind of filament in 1.75. With some of the more exotic filaments you might struggle to get 2.85.

Larger build volume sholdn't effet anything else. it's just longer guide rods and a bigger build plate - everything else is pretty much the same.

I would definitely try and find a supplier based in your own country. postage and import tax can almost double the cost of a larger printer. And will also mean if it breaks, you won't be able to send it back for repair.

You might also find that rather than one large expensive machine you might be better off with several cheaper machines. the flashforge creator pro's are about as good as it gets in the mid range build volume.
You could get a couple of those and something bigger as well.

Another option is the Hyrel. It can print multiple models simultaneously (pretty sure this is unique to the hyrel) and every kind of material it's possible to think of from rubber, through clay to ice !
Davos will give you the complete rundown.
But for sheer versatility there's nothing on the market to touch it.

[Davo]

Thanks, ca.

First, I recommend getting some 3D Printing experience before launching a new 3D Printing business. Much like Chess, 3D Printing has some straightforward rules, but it can take years to grasp the strategies - and not everyone who tries will succeed.

I don't want to clutter up the forum with a sales pitch, so take 90 seconds to check out the video at https://youtu.be/4oxCqR_DVNQ If that looks like something you are interested in, our product list is at http://hyrel3d.net/pdfs/Hyrel_Flyer_Sep2015.pdf

We believe we have the best customer support in the business, and we don't sell a printer until the customer has taken training via skype/teamviewer.

If you'd like to learn more, you can message me here, or call or email me using info on the pdf.

[LambdaFF]

Thanks for your answer.
How do you find the extrudrers type? Any available DB or just info spreading over the community?
A question about hotends: one of these printers did reach 415° on the hotend and does have water cooled extruders, meaning this is better than others?
Did also use 2.85mm filament, does make any difference vs the more standard 1.75mm?
About bid volumes: bigger possible building volumes does have impact in other specs? Meaning: if we didn't loose anything and only add flexibility is a plus for us.

An extruder is direct if the motor is directly on the carriage with the head. It is "bowden", if it is fitted immobile on the frame and linked to the hot end with a flexible tube.

For the hot ends. There was recently a video by Thomas Sanladerer about a watercooled hot end, I recommend it. One important thing to note : it increases significantly the power requirement of the hot end and might wear the board fast if it was not designed for such an output. Also, unless you specifically look for very high end materials, 415°C won't be of much use. What's more, there is little to no market for such materials (today) and you'll struggle finding a mix adapted to 3Dprinting, and extruded as a roll of filament. So ... unless this is a clear requirement from your customers, that's just overkill (in my opinion).

[davide445]

...

For the hot ends. There was recently a video by Thomas Sanladerer about a watercooled hot end, I recommend it. One important thing to note : it increases significantly the power requirement of the hot end and might wear the board fast if it was not designed for such an output. Also, unless you specifically look for very high end materials, 415°C won't be of much use. What's more, there is little to no market for such materials (today) and you'll struggle finding a mix adapted to 3Dprinting, and extruded as a roll of filament. So ... unless this is a clear requirement from your customers, that's just overkill (in my opinion).

This 3ntr A2/A4 printers appear to be good from all we say, we will probably have a look next week.

My biggest concern is the 2.85mm filament, is that an extinguishing dinosaur?