Turnigy Fabrikator /w Cura - Bed-Adhesion problem

[PhilippG]

Hello guys,
i have some problems with my Printer.

I have been printing PLA sucessfully on a glas surface with a slightly heated bed.
After that, i tried printing ABS, but it did not want to stick to the Bed. I tried hairspray, but still no adhesion. Then i ordered BuildTak.
Now, with BuildTak on my Printbed, i am unable to get the prints of my bed.
They stick so well, that i have to pry to get them off. I already damaged 2 BuildTak surfaces in that process. It is ridicuasly hard to get them off.

This problem exists with ABS as well as PLA.
Even if i just print a single layer, it is sometimes hard to get that off.

I have tried printing 0.3mm above the bed and turning of the heating (PLA), but that does not help at all.

So i either use just the glass surface, where ABS does not stick at all or i use BuildTak, where i ruin my prints, when i try to pry them off.

Does anyone of you have an idea on how i could solve this?
Some Settings, that might lead to a "less stickier" print?

Thanks for any suggestion

[3dkarma]

I've thrown BuildTak out because it's too sticky, although I'm told over time it becomes less so. According to BuildTak, heating the bed surface helps you release a print.

For PLA, I use a PVA glue stick on a glass bed, which works extremely well. If things stick too well, 5 minutes in the freezer gets it loose again. People who use ABS tend to use ABS slurry.

[PhilippG]

Right now i am trying out Gluesticks + ABS.

As you said, gluesticks are a very easy solution and indeed seem to improve bed adhesion with ABS. However i am not to a point, where i would be satisfied. 50% of the prints so far still lifted from the printbed (the bigger the print, the more likely it lifts). I will try to dial in my setup a bit better, before i discard this method.

Havn`t really thought about slurry, but i defenetly have enough deformed prints to make some
I will give it a try, if the gluestick-method doesn`t come to a good result.

Thank you very much for the tip
I will keep this thread updated.

In regards to the freezer:
When printing on BuildTak, cooling down the print in the freezer or heating up the bed to 120° both did not help to get the print off.
The surface still grabbed onto the print like crazy :-(

[3dkarma]

I've pretty much given up on all the miracle-bed-metamaterial-exotic-particles-magic surfaces. BuildTak won't release and the others flex too much when the print warps, defeating the purpose of the things in the first place.

Do you print in an enclosure? Temperature and draft control in an enclosure is pretty much a requirement to minimise ABS warp.

[PhilippG]

So, i have tried about 15 prints with gluesticks.
The success-rate is slightly higher than the glass surface alone, but stuill dissapointing.

However the first tries with ABS-SLush seem to be promising.
A very liquid-like mixture did not work that well, but i thickened the slush and the first print seems to hold on well (printing right now).

If it turns out well and the next prints stay the same, i will post pictures of the mixture and the bed.
Right now the bed has a really "milky" coat of ABS-Slush on it. Quite thicker than i thought i had to do.

Unfortunettly i will have to go to bed after the current print is finished.
I will also be away for the weekend, so no more experiments till sunday evening.


In regards to the enclosure:
No, the printer has open sides/front/top.
The temperature of the bed stays around 115 to 125.
It might not hurt to do a run with the sides closed off. I will keep you updated :-)

Here is the cagalog-image of the printer, so that you can imagine, what i am talking about:
http://cdn.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...atalog/m1s.jpg

Thanks for the tips so far!

[joop1987]

Get yourself a nice 200mm roll of kapton tape for ABS. You can get the small stuff off once the bed is cool On larger prints, the kaptop tape bubbles when you pry the ABS off. But I can live with this.

[milcent]

After 6 weeks of request and patience, i just heard from HK they have no news from their supplier just to replace the arduino+RAMP board. I am afraid we wont get any support from them with this product. I have to send it back in UK, 50€ shipping cost which is the price of pieces to replace but i dont want to loos guarantee. So i will ship it this week and expect either a replacement with one working or money back + cost for shipping back.
By the way is the printer still working and giving satisfaction ? I had a good start only for few hours so i cannot make a good opinion by myself.

[PhilippG]

So, after a short vacation, i finally got back to printing. At first i have to say, that my problems are SOLVED!

I bought some Kapton-Tape and it led to better adhesion, but not to a point, where printing was reliable.
So i disgarded this idea and went back to covering my printbed in ABS-Slush.

If i do a quite dense mixture, it works VERY well! 100% success-rate after i got the mixing correct.
Before the print, the bed looks very messy because of the Slush, but the prints turn out very well.

So, in short, my final configuration is the stock glass-plate covered in ABS-Slush.

Thanks for the tips from all you guys :-)

@milcent:
Since you posted also in the other thread, i will just answer here.
Link: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...ot-solid/page2

Like joop in the other thread said.. there is no real support from HK (which they have said from the beginning, i think).
The printer, to me, is just a package of parts, where you know that everything fits together.. but you have to figure out settings etc. by yourself.
You have to defenetly build it yourself and you have to invest a fairly big amount of time setting it up right.

But, as joop said, the parts all are readly available from china.
I personally would not send it back to HK. But i also like to figure out stuff myself. So if troubleshooting is not your thing, sending it back might be a decent option.

In regards to further failures of the printer:
- The 5V regulator still works fine for me. No issues at all.
- I have used an extruder-Temp of 252 °C for over 20h now and the extruder seems to hold strong.
- I also had to change the steps to about 85.

This, in my opinion, shows how much the printer differs from user to user.
You have to figure out something by yourself!

But despite all my problems, i am happy i bought this printer.
It is not a ready-to-print package, but in this way, you learn how your machine works!

[milcent]

Thanks Philippe for the update.
I can't remember where HK said they will not provide support. Instead they told a forum is going to provide help on rchouse.com, and in fact very few answers there from HK but mainly from buyers, and in addition the web site is almost useless (performance, presentation ...)
In my situation i manage by reading content and asking question in forums to educate myself enough to do problem determination. I found first a problem of condo soldering on the RAMP 1.4 (bought a new one) then the pololu and finally arduino card died almost. I asked for a replacement of both (around 50$) but after 6 weeks while HK told me the supplier is going to answer, they said the supplier gave NO answer. Which means this product has no guarantee.
I sent it back waiting for their technical analysis and decision either to send a brand new one, tested and validated (i think electronics components are very bad ... excepting motors).
It cost me 60€ to send it back, they are compensating with 10$ in bonus point.
I expected better support from HK company. That is my point.
Pierre

[joop1987]

Hopefully you can get a full refund and buy a different printer with real support.