New 12" user and I am LOST!

[Chadd]

What were your print settings for that print? Looks like you are over extruding.

Print setting for which part? The Afinia is very limited on what you can choose. I need to do some digging to see what the actual settings are. You have the option of layer height, Speed (fine, normal, fast), and fill. The rest is out of your hands. The top layer is a good indication to me of a good print. The Afinia on the Left does an amazing job. The part is very smooth. I have no idea how it does it and I would like to get my hands not he g code to see if I can decode the speeds and temps.

The Maker does okay. Just a bit of work to do to get it to a level I would like to produce at. The nozzle does appear to drag through the top layer a lot. Here is a typical print I am getting. Is there a setting I am missing somewhere that will tell the z to move up when it moves to a new position?

[tsteever]

Concerning Pronterface....

If you have been following along you know I had a terrible time with Pronterface on my Mac. No matter how many times I redid the drivers for the FTDI I could not get it to connect consistently. Eventually I followed the steps for reinstalling python via terminal and got it to work sometimes, but with more frequency. I followed the steps listed here towards the bottom...

https://github.com/kliment/Printrun

Once I had that I could get into Pronterface sometimes and sometimes not. I just clicked connect until it worked. I was running the most current version of Pronterface. On a hunch I tried the 12July13 release of Pronterface and I am happy to report I can connect every time! I hope that helps some people.

[printbus]

There's been another person on the Makerfarm IRC also struggling with Z axis problems. That makes three.

One common denominator is that the MakerFarm zip-tie approach to mount the Z endstop has not been used. If screws are used to mount the switches, don't overtighten them since that can and will distort the switch and lead to problems. I personally wouldn't use hot glue to mount the switch since the glue, while hot, could also distort the switch.

Any time Z axis issues are apparent, make sure the coupling between the Z motors and the threaded rods is tight, whatever method is being used. If using the MakerFarm plastic tubing, add zip ties to the tubing and tighten them as much as you can to provide additional clamping force on the threaded rods. If using split-type aluminum couplers, note that they typically will NOT tighten adequately on the undersized threaded rods unless you've added something like foil or foil tape to the threaded rods to increase their diameter to the 5mm the couplers are designed for. Time and time again we've had people who *think* their couplers are tight only to later realize they weren't tight enough.

When Z heights are suspect, always look at the printer LCD and see what the printer thinks the current Z height is. The display will reflect what the printer has been commanded to (via LCD, gcode file or host software). It does not necessarily reflect the actual position if there are movement problems on the printer. This might help determine whether the source of the problem is the command source (host software or gcode), or the printer itself.

When gcode files are suspect, or you want to know what the gcode will be telling the printer to do as far as Z heights, load the gcode in the gcode.ws analyzer. It's not an app you have to download - it's just a URL where you can load your gcode. After loading a file, click on the layer view. The scroll bar on the right side of the GUI allows you to view each layer of the print individually. The scroll bar on the bottom allow you to trace through the movement commands for the selected layer. Note that text data on the left will show what the current print height is for that layer.

I'm wondering whether the Z axis stepper driver current limits have been adjusted for any of these three printers. If not, they could be on the low side, which can cause the Z axis motors to skip. This would manifest itself as the printer not always moving to the commanded Z height, whether during homing or during a print. On RAMPS and RUMBA, the stepper driver current limits are adjusted by small trimpots on the stepper motor driver boards. For RAMBO, this adjustment is done through firmware changes (or maybe LCD? I don't know). Refer to the build guide, electronics documentation, or google for more information on the adjustment process.

[tsteever]

What were your print settings for that print? Looks like you are over extruding.

Could you be a bit more specific as to print settings? There are so many that I wouldn't know where to start listing. Which ones are you looking for specifically?

I have been tweaking the Slic3r setting so much I have not clue what is stock! I can attach my slicer config files if that helps.

I worked my way through almost half a spool of filament trying to get the steps right on the extruder. That is not as simple as Youtube makes it look! I first asked it to extrude 100mm after marking at 120mm. I measured and did the math and found I needed to adjust my steps to 848.2 from 841. I redid the test and this time it said I needed to just to 836! That can't be right as it is less than what I started at. Oooof da, my head hurt after all that.

I just did it manually until when I called for 100mm of filament, it extruded 100.05. I called that good and ended up with an step value around 846.2 .

I then moved on to the extruder multiplier by printing the single wall test print and measuring it compared to the gcode which called for .67. I did the math and determined that the spool needed a multiplier of 97%.

That is what I printed the above piece at. Colin has advised me that he uses the included config and tunings posted from his build guide and does not adjust the multiplier. I know his prints are not as good as they could be, but they look nothing like this mess.

[tsteever]

After I made the changes you posted out to the code and changed the homing speeds and heights I am getting better Z axis homing. I will measure when i get home.

As far as the current limits go, on the Rumba they are controlled by little pots on the driver. I have checked them and find them to be at .4v per the build guide. I have no idea is this is too high or too low. Since the Z stepper is driving two motors, do You think the V should be higher? I find the advice on setting these to be speculative. Change and listen for sounds. When you don't know what the proper sounds are, how do you know? I know the Z motors are not getting hot, which means I could potentially increase the voltage a bit.

[misquamacus]

I know it is a 1500 dollar machine with limited user input. But the parts and pieces that make it are so close to the maker.

This. You have just located the price gap between a DIY kit and a tested, quality assured, finished product.

I have the most experience with Ultimaker products, so I will use them as an example. When one purchases an Ultimaker 2, it costs around $2500 USD. The parts come in around $950, and paying someone to build the printer only costs about $50 each. Also, you're right, the parts are very similar to what you get in a makerfarm kit. So, where does your other $1500 go? What are you paying for?

The answer is quality assurance and technical support. I can tell you from experience that an Ultimaker 2 is just as capable of terrible print quality as your Prusa i3v; however, when it arrives at your door, the Ultimaker 2 quietly churns out perfect 50 micron prints. This is the result of lots of testing. Before each printer leaves the factory, it has to run a gauntlet of tests, real torture prints. If the printer makes one mistake at all, no matter how small, it is sent to review where a team figures out what needs to be fixed; furthermore, the Ultimaker 2 has been out for over a year and the company is still regularly updating parts for it as problems present themselves.

The process of releasing a quality product to the world market is extremely complex/difficult, but for our purposes we'll oversimplify it to 3 parts: Design, Testing, Release. First a company designs a printer, then they test it to death, then after they've solved all the problems that they can, the product is released for end users to buy. After that, they continue supporting their customers.

Makers have the choice to enter this process wherever they like:

Design (Free-ish). These are the new printer ideas you find online that only a handful of people have actually made. They can usually be assembled with cheap/spare/printed parts. Be advised, there will be a lot of troubleshooting ahead to get it printing at all, let alone making super high quality prints.

Testing ($ - $$$). These are the RepRap all-stars. Tried and true open source designs that are known for being capable of terrific performance... if one is patient enough to wrestle that from them. Often companies take one of these popular designs and assemble a DIY kit. The value these kits present is simplifying the process of building a printer from scratch (research, part selection, assembly advice). Such is the case of the Makerfarm Prusa i3v. Do not confuse this with a finished product. The company agrees to provide working parts and sometimes build instructions; however, the print quality will be dependent on each individual customer's skill level. In other words, the customer is both quality assurance and technical support.

Release ($$ - ∞). These are the Makerbots/Ultimakers/Afinias/etc. The company has already troubleshot their product and figured out the best practices for its use. If something is malfunctioning, technical support will help you fix it (often one on one). If the problem is too large for you to fix quickly, they will replace the printer. This service is mostly what you have paid them for.

If you're expecting consistent amazing print quality with this printer, it is possible, but you have a long road ahead of you. The good news is, at the end of the road you will have learned a lot. If that doesn't sound like something you would like, then get out now while you're only $600-ish in. Flip that thing on Craigslist and call it a day.

TL;DR: You get what you pay for, and that's a great thing.
Source: I work for Ultimaker's US branch building/testing/fixing printers.

[Chadd]

I originally used the Zip ties but changed to bolts after I had issues with Homing.

There's been another person on the Makerfarm IRC also struggling with Z axis problems. That makes three.

One common denominator is that the MakerFarm zip-tie approach to mount the Z endstop has not been used. If screws are used to mount the switches, don't overtighten them since that can and will distort the switch and lead to problems. I personally wouldn't use hot glue to mount the switch since the glue, while hot, could also distort the switch.

Any time Z axis issues are apparent, make sure the coupling between the Z motors and the threaded rods is tight, whatever method is being used. If using the MakerFarm plastic tubing, add zip ties to the tubing and tighten them as much as you can to provide additional clamping force on the threaded rods. If using split-type aluminum couplers, note that they typically will NOT tighten adequately on the undersized threaded rods unless you've added something like foil or foil tape to the threaded rods to increase their diameter to the 5mm the couplers are designed for. Time and time again we've had people who *think* their couplers are tight only to later realize they weren't tight enough.

When Z heights are suspect, always look at the printer LCD and see what the printer thinks the current Z height is. The display will reflect what the printer has been commanded to (via LCD, gcode file or host software). It does not necessarily reflect the actual position if there are movement problems on the printer. This might help determine whether the source of the problem is the command source (host software or gcode), or the printer itself.

When gcode files are suspect, or you want to know what the gcode will be telling the printer to do as far as Z heights, load the gcode in the gcode.ws analyzer. It's not an app you have to download - it's just a URL where you can load your gcode. After loading a file, click on the layer view. The scroll bar on the right side of the GUI allows you to view each layer of the print individually. The scroll bar on the bottom allow you to trace through the movement commands for the selected layer. Note that text data on the left will show what the current print height is for that layer.

I'm wondering whether the Z axis stepper driver current limits have been adjusted for any of these three printers. If not, they could be on the low side, which can cause the Z axis motors to skip. This would manifest itself as the printer not always moving to the commanded Z height, whether during homing or during a print. On RAMPS and RUMBA, the stepper driver current limits are adjusted by small trimpots on the stepper motor driver boards. For RAMBO, this adjustment is done through firmware changes (or maybe LCD? I don't know). Refer to the build guide, electronics documentation, or google for more information on the adjustment process.

[tsteever]

I get it, you spend the money for the company support and a pre-tuned printer. I really do understand and fully understood this before getting the printer. I also understood that by getting a "kit" printer I would be doing much of the leg work, with the help of a very supportive community.

I am not placing blame at all, nor complaining. I am just seeking advise and guidance from more knowledgable people than myself and learning as I go. Hopefully this dialogue can help others as well. Now, can you offer any guidance as to how I can get better, more accurate prints from the printer? I have seen many parts produced on an Ultimaker and they are amazing! I hope to get this machine tuned to come marginally close to what that can do. I wish I had the funds to pay for an out of the box solution. I wanted a printer with a large build platform and a reasonable cost in regards to my budget. The ultimaker was just too much money for it's build size. It has quite a premium added to it for the high quality prints.

I made the choice to take on a project and I am up for the challenge. I know this machine can get there is I can just figure out how to overcome the hurdles.

First problem (pronterface) has been overcome
Second Problem, Z-Axis, working on the fine details but it is printing.
Third Problem, Top layer quality. Got some work to do that I suspect is an extruder setup
Forth Problem, accurate reproduction (size) of parts. Suspect extruder setup here too.

[Chadd]

Where do you adjust the speed that the Z axis homes at for the final home? Can't seem to find it in the config files.

[Chadd]

Never mind, I found it.

Where do you adjust the speed that the Z axis homes at for the final home? Can't seem to find it in the config files.