5th Gen - Review and Head to Head with Rep 2

[American 3D Printing]

I have lots more pictures, with build times, etc., however after a while it kind of comes from the department of redundancy department. All of them show pretty much the same thing - the 5th Gen is slower and seems to have a lower build quality than the Rep 2, all when using the exact same settings on both machines.

One other important difference is that I am using Makerware for Desktop (version 3 point something) on the 5th Gen, because that's all that will run it, and I am using Makerware 2.2 point something on the older 32 bit laptop that's running the Rep 2.

When the 5th Gen is returned, I will certain repeat a couple of these builds to see if there is any difference whatsoever with the initial results. For the record, the firmware in the 5th Gen is 1.3.1.143, and was the 3rd update we had in the month or so we had the machine.

The Makerbot web site insists that the 5th gen has wireless capability, however I never discovered how to use it. I didn't try the ethernet, the machine was located too far from my router. I never figured out how to use the camera, and never figured out how to store slices into the 5th Gen internal memory (which presumably replaces the good old SD card on the front of the Rep 2). Perhaps after the machine is returned, I'll ping tech support again and see what they can share with me.

[American 3D Printing]

I got the following email today:

Hello Jeff,

The repairs to your Replicator 5th Gen. are complete, and is currently being prepared to be shipped back to you. With your bot, you will receive a detailed service report along with test print(s) made on your machine. If you have any other questions or concerns feel free, to contact us.

Best,
MakerBot Support


ref:_00D30W6XV._50013l6IFg:ref

[Assaf]

Um - so a near $3000 (2899) printer doesn't have a heated bed ?

Wow. And looking at all the other stuff - I'm glad I bought a clone of makerbot replicator and not an actual makerbot.
As far as I can see, everything on mine is better or easier to use and fix.

Love the review - totally even handed and just goes to show that spending a lot more money doesn't necessarily get a better printer.

One thing - I've tried adjusting the json files for the default templates in makerware 2.4. I simply wanted the default print head to be lefty, not righty.
Didn't work - I only changed a 0 to a 1. Just didn't effect the software at all. Which .json file should I be changing to make a change in the default templates ?
I think I tried every file I could find.

Hi Curious Aardvark (I am learning English all the time, thanks for this cute animal name )
From our experience, you do not need to play with the default head. just set your settings for the head you want and choose using the UI of the makerware what toolhead to use to print your objects.
I think this is the right way to handle this issue and not choosing in the profile the toolhead to be used.

Assaf

[Assaf]

Hey Assaf, glad it was helpful. I checked out your web site, but I can't read Hebrew

I honestly don't know how much can be "fixed" with this 5th Gen design.

Certainly my bed leveling issue is likely simply a defect in this particular machine, rather than a design flaw. I do see a philosophical problem with their approach to these 5th Gen models, where the user has less and less control over the build parameters, and worse, the philosophy of "no user serviceable parts". If they are going to go that direction, they better have a nationwide network of repair centers in place, ready to turn around the machines very quickly.

Another disturbing bit of news is an email I received from my Makerbot reseller team. I don't have it in front of me for the actual verbiage, but they are REALLY pushing Makercare, which is basically like those pricey extended warranties they try to sell you whenever you buy an appliance or TV and so forth. The latest paradigm is that you HAVE to buy Makerware to get phone support, and that if you don't you can only get email support, and furthermore if you don't buy Makercare, you only get any support at all for 60 days after purchase.

With those kinds of strategic decisions, it bodes well for Makerbot's competitors.

Hi Jeff,
My site is in both languages: Hebrew and English, so you are welcome to visit us again
I think this link will get you directly to the English version.
About Makerbot strategy, I am not sure it would be applied to all countries, I believe that at least in Israel the regulation authorities will not allow such behavior but I defiantly agree that Makerbot Gen 5 3D printers do not look as promising as at least I expected from them to be after they were bought by Stratasys.

[wpilgrim]

Really great thorough review. Thank you very much!

[American 3D Printing]

Really great thorough review. Thank you very much!

You're welcome, and thank you.

BTW, we got the 5th Gen back from Makerbot, but they asked me to have the printer's owner be the one to unpack it, so I'm waiting for him.

I was down at MCAD for a 3D printing conference last week. MCAD is the Denver area authorized Stratasys reseller, they sell all the enterprise class machines like the Fortus and Objet and the low end ones like the Uprint and Mojo. I got chatting with the sales guy, and he (always trying to make a sale) mentioned that Stratasys has lowered the price of the Mojo to $6k. It used to be $10k. One of the things I have heard "on the street" is that Makerbot Rep2s were KILLING Mojo sales, so you can see where the price increase on the 5th Gen combined with the drop on the Mojo were probably tangentially related.

[American 3D Printing]

So the 5th Gen owner came in yesterday and I had him do the honors of unpacking it.

See the linked PDF of the service ticket, but I will also summarize:

Reported problem: Unable to Level the Plate

Observed problem: Tape on lower left pulley

Action Taken: Replaced idler pulley, timing belt and belt clip; replaced xy gantry bracket; replaced z-stage assembly

Time to repair: 5

HUH???? First of all i KNOW for a fact that the only tape that was on that machine when I packed it up was the blue painter's tape on the build plate. What the heck is a "timing belt" and what would that have to do with leveling the build plate? What is a Z-stage assembly? Where is this lower left pulley? The only pulleys that are visible are around the TOP of the machine!

Anyhow, we set the machine up and proceeded to attempt to level the plate. The first thing the machine did was slam the extruderall the way to the left and then all the way to the back of the machine with this horrible sound of stepper motors attempting to move an immovable object. I quickly reached around the back and cut the power.

Try again, this time it did what it was supposed to do and went to the middle of the plate and found home. This time there was sufficient adjustment to get the LED to illuminate and say that the plate was level.

So to test it, I dropped a small object into Makerbot for Desktop, duplicated it 4x and place one copy on each of the four corners of the build plate. I loaded some genuine makerbot filament into the extruder and off we went (after the usual 15 minutes to heat up, find z home and then finish heating).

The plate was not even close to level, or properly homed. Two of the objects didn't come close to sticking, and the other two were jammed against the plate so no filament could come out.

So we went through the leveling process again (which takes a good 15 minutes in its own right, and of course you have to unload the filament for it, then reload when done).

Tried the 4 object build again, with the exact same result.

Next I simply observed where it was too high, too low etc. and after about 5 iterations and about an hour and a half of fiddling around, got it to where all four corners were about right. There is an additional problem though, in that whenever you go to start a build and it finds a new z home, it isn't very consistent, so sometimes the builds will stick and other times they won't, and yet other times the nozzle will be smashed up against the tape and nothing can come out and you hear that familiar clicking sound inside the extruder.

I had written about that issue (see prior post's copy of the letter I sent), but obviously either this wasn't addressed, or it is an inherent design flaw. I would speculate that this is why all the builds that come prloaded into internal memory are done on the very-forgiving Makerbot raft.

[WayTooManyHobbies]

Jeff,

Thanks you for the excellent review - it's been in depth, illuminating, and more than a little disturbing. My company purchased a Replicator 2X about one year ago, but we passed on adding a Z18 because Makerbot refused to confirm (or deny) that it would run ABS. Your review is confirming that as a good decision.

I feel like Makerbot has lost its way. Our Replicator 2X remains a fine machine, but it certainly seems that the 5th generation machines are a step backward. I've also been quite uncomfortable with the changes to Makerbot Desktop. The slice function seems to be getting slower, the support for alternate materials seems worse, and the screen realestate given up to branding and on-line functions is disappointing.

Along with quite a few others who are reading this review, we look forward to any other information you care to share about the experience. Thanks again!

[Geoff]

Wow, thanks again Jeff..

"Observed problem, tape on pulley"

Wow, what a load of BS, this is becoming very reminiscent of a fancy car that has too many automated features being rushed out to market and causes customers a load of headaches. Like a car, they can cost a small fortune.

The only difference here, car manufacturers have to recall the cars mainly for safety reasons, where as Makerbot can give you the run-around, literally for as long as they like and there isn't anything anyone can really do about it.

A warranty means very little when the company both denies the problem and also doesn't even look into fixing it, which seems like what's happening here.

With all that money, all that backing, all those people... How can they get this so wrong?

[saifprints]

Hello Jeff
Thank you for the excellent review.
I am a new makerbot 5th gen printer owner. We bought it just this month, so maybe the company looked at your review and others on the web and decided to do some modifications. I dont know. I do know that the replicator we bought has not given us any more trouble than anything else new would give to a newbie. Other than the completely non-existent customer support.
We unpacked the printer, and started fiddling around it. The first step was leveling of the bed. Went through without a hitch.
Second was loading the filament. Now we got one from makerbot with the package, and it went into the attached spool holder without any difficulty.
For different color, we went and bought us some PLA filament from amazon. We tried that, and the spool did not fit in the holder. Does that mean that makerbot absolutely will not allow to use non-makerbot accessories? Totally. This voids the warranty too. For this, I tried to get some support both from makerbot and the spool manufacturer. Zilch. No support from the manufacturer. And makerbot, you get pay per ticket support, unless you buy makercare. There was this excellent google group for makerbot, which they closed off. I did sign up for the new makerbot users group on google. This will be my support I guess.
We have been printing with this almost every day since it has come, and there have been some minor issues.
After 3 or 4 prints, the filament refuses to attach itself, and we have to change the blue tape we use on the bed.
Sometimes, changing filament, the filament refuses to load. Went back to google, found that one has to push the filament really hard, and keep pushing until it starts extruding. Not what it says on the LCD - to just push the filament until you feel the extruder pulling it in.
The spool holder does not accommodate any spools other than makerbot.

I have bought a ninjaflex filament, but havent yet figured out if the makerbot will print that without problem or not. I read that Rep2x, there is an extruder accessory which helps in printing with flexible filament. Any help or experience would be appreciated.

This has been my experience till now, since we received the machine around the 24 or 25th of september.

thanks