B9Creator (v1) vs. Form 1+

[Peregrine2976]

Hi all,

I currently have a B9Creator (version 1), which I've honestly not used much, just due to not having the time or need for it yet. I can see that time approaching quickly on the horizon, though - I have some long overdue vacation coming that should finally give me time to play and tinker.

Perhaps it's just simple buyer's regret, but I've been looking at the Form 1+ a little wistfully in the past couple weeks. I've been wondering whether it might be better for me to sell my B9Creator and invest what I can get for it into a fund for a Form 1+ (since the Form 1+ costs about the same as the B9 v1 did when it was current, and it's no longer current since there's a B9 v2, I don't expect to be able to simply swap them out without some extra investment). For anyone wondering, having BOTH is simply NOT a financial possibility for me.

So, I was wondering which one people might recommend?

I largely intend to use it for jewelry, which is what pushed me to get the B9 in the first place, since at the time it was the only printer around with lost-wax-castable resin - but now I see Formlabs has also introduced a castable resin.

Overall, the Form 1+ is more aesthetically pleasing and it gives me the IMPRESSION that it might be a smoother ride than the B9. I love the heck out of the B9, but it does feel a little 'jury-rigged', what with the projector just kind of strapped onto the bottom there. I don't have any actual or verifiable reason for that opinion, it's just my initial, marketing-infected impression. The Form 1+ also takes up less space than the B9. However, I've heard of a lot of strange dimension-warping problems with the Form series, it seems to be a consistent problem - vertical stretching or inexplicable horizontal travel of layers during print. Of course all printers have the occasional bug, but every time I Google just about anything about the Formlabs printers, I seem to see a (new) post about dimension-warping.

With all that said, I'm frozen from indecision at the moment. I'd love to hear people's opinions and thoughts on this. Thanks a lot!

[bford903]

I've done casting tests on the Form1 castable resin and it didn't cast as well as I'd hoped. Still leaves bad surfaces and some porosity. I haven't been able to test the material from the B9 (though not for lack of trying), so I cannot comment on how it casts, but I've heard good things. From what I've heard, you'd probably have an easier time casting the material from the B9, but you'll have an easier time getting consistent prints from the Form1. Plus, I believe the B9 resin is considerably cheaper than the resin from Form1.

[awerby]

I've got both machines, and if your primary need is for casting patterns, I'd stick with the B9. The resolution is better, and the footprint's about the same. As was pointed out, the B9 resin is considerably less than the Form1+ castable resin, which they sell for $149 for a 500ml bottle. (B9's Red resin is $107 for a kilogram, about twice as big a bottle). None of this stuff burns out as well as wax, but people seem to be having better luck casting the B9 resin than the formlabs stuff. You do have to get more air into the kiln and burn hotter for longer than is usual for wax, using any of these materials. There's a forum on both sites, so you can see how people are making these things work. B9's forum has a lot more jewelers on it, and more detailed discussions of the casting process.

But if you want to make models in clear plastic, the Form1+ is the one to get. Their tech support is better than B9's too (B9 relies on forum posts to clear up problems; Formlabs has actual tech support staff). I'm not sure about the dimension-warping you mention, but I have had models partially detach themselves from the build plate and keep printing, which makes for "leaning towers".

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[Peregrine2976]

Hmmmmm. I appreciate everyone's feedback. General consensus seems to be keeping the B9. But, I think I'll have to part with it anyway - the Form 1+ is simply a better fit for my space and setup.

[JSenior]

Hmmmmm. I appreciate everyone's feedback. General consensus seems to be keeping the B9. But, I think I'll have to part with it anyway - the Form 1+ is simply a better fit for my space and setup.

For jewellery and casting I would strongly recommend keeping your B9 (or even updating it to the HD projector.)
If you want a more contained unit then look at Asiga/DWS/Envisiontec etc. (some of the small volume professional machines can be under $10k.)

You'll regret not having the extra resolution provided by DLP over affordable SLA machines. The resin offered by B9 and the rest is also more suitable than form labs.

[Peregrine2976]

You may be right, and the B9 may be better for casting. Personally, I've seen a few comments about the Form 1 resin that seems to indicate the casting resin works just fine. As for resolution, well, both my B9 and the Form 1 print at the same minimum resolution, 50 microns X and Y, with similar layer thicknesses.

One of the biggest obstacles for me with the B9 is the constant recalibration and possibility for human error in that calibration. I don't really relish the thought of spending hours recalibrating the finnicky projector every time I want to change build table sizes (along with resolution). As a unit, it's also much much messier than the Form 1+, with HUGE potential for resin to spill out from the vat.

Bottom line, it's messy, requires a ton of manhours for maintenance and calibration, and takes up an extremely large amount of space for a printer with that build volume. All of that can definitely be worth it to some - particularly those with their own shop space - but I've just got my stuff crammed into an apartment, and that isn't about to change for a good long while. I need a more contained, more easily maintained unit for my needs. That was what drew me to the Form 1+ - it's ready to print out of the box. That and actual technical support, rather than just community forums.

I guess what I'm saying is, even if the B9Creator is the best printer for the job, it isn't the best printer for me.

As for the other printers JSenior recommended - I looked at all three you recommended. The smallest models that all three companies put out are over $10k. However, I might just save up and get one of those anyway. They're definitely more impressive than the Form 1+. But I'll keep an eye out for other viable printers as well before making any decisions.

[Peregrine2976]

What does everyone think of the Titan 1? http://www.kudo3d.com/products/

Or the Phoenix Touch Pro? http://www.fsl3d.com/pro/

(I'm actually going to look further into the Phoenix Touch Pro, it looks very promising, like a compromise between the B9 and Form 1 - we'll see what some Googling reveals, though)

[Peregrine2976]

Did some checking into the Phoenix Touch Pro. Actually I did some checking into their current printer which uses the same 'supervat' as the upcoming Touch Pro. People seem to be having a lot of issues with the vat, so Phoenix may go on the back-burner for now unless I can find out anything new.

[Peregrine2976]

Hi all,

Finally came to a decision. I'll be continuing to use the B9Creator, but keep it up for sale. If anyone buys, I'll put the money towards the new B9 1.2 - it's not really possible to 'upgrade', the only possibility is buying a new one.

[awerby]

I'm not sure the B9 is really messier than the Form1; both require that you don gloves and deal with sticky resin-covered parts. And the consequences of dripping resin into the bowels of the Form1 are much worse, since there's an open cavity directly under the tank where the large front-surfaced mirror, galvanometer mirrors and circuit boards are all exposed. Just overfilling the tank a little will cause it to overflow, directly down onto all that stuff, when the build head comes down, displacing a lot of the resin, and the tank tilts. (Apparently, that voids your warranty too.) If the B9 overflows (which is less likely, since it doesn't tilt) all that gets dripped on is the projector, which is comparatively well-sealed.

While the B9 is a bit wider than the Form1, it doesn't really use up all that space, since you can put things on the counter between its feet. The Form1 takes up all the room it occupies, which is why I'd call them about equal in that regard.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com