ABS printers

[mkart]

I am used to using a Stratasys Dimension printer for many years at my last job. It was great because we would create all kinds of great things ad hoc to serve in very functional roles. Now in my new job we also need to be able to do the same thing. PVA isn't going to cut it. We need to durablity of ABS.

The nice big Stratasys machines are just too expensive for us, though. So I am looking at these machines like the CubePro that say they can do ABS, but do not have heated platforms and seem to get mixed reviews with ABS when I look around on Youtube etc.

I would love to get something like the CubePRO,. but am suspicious that that level of machine does not reliably produce the results we will need when using ABS. Does anyone know how much it is necessary to spend to really get results (with ABS) that are on par with the classic Stratasys Dimension machines? I know there's no free lunch, but surely it isn't necessary to spend anything like the cost of the main Dimension machines, right?

[awerby]

I think you do need the heated bed to print ABS without warpage, but many of these machines come with them. The main thing those big expensive machines do that doesn't seem to have percolated down to the small cheap FDM-type printers is provide soluble support material as well as the ABS. In theory, any dual-extruder model should be able to do this, using HIPS (soluble in limonene) or PVA (soluble in water) but I haven't seen any of them that have actually worked out how to do it with the available open-source software they all seem to use. If you find one that's demonstrated the use of soluble support, please let me know; I refuse to buy a printer that leaves me to hand-carve half my parts.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[Mjolinor]

If you have the space then go with an old Stratasys Dimension. Cost to buy is on a par with a new dual extrusion "hobby" (<< no stick for that please) printer and running cost for filament is the same once you have googled the eeprom programming, running cost for actual power consumed is another matter but still not of a worry or if it is then you have bigger problems than which printer to get.

You will never get the sort of reliability you are used to from the smaller printers. "Draw and click print" is getting there but is not there yet unless you go with a commercial machine.

The early Dimensions are better made than the later ones and they are a lot cheaper. The only problem is the Z axis drive belt, it is no longer made and is a real pig to find if you need one.

[mkart]

I don't think it will be possible to buy a used machine where I work, basically due to very restrictive ways of tendering things. Things are somewhat inflexible here in that regard.

Do I understand correctly that, if you need to buy new, there basically are not any good machines in the price range that is between $3000 machines and $30,000 machines? Does anyone know why exactly the small machines are so much less reliable and/or not as good more generally? I mean what the specific reasons are. I see that the CubePro has an enclosed build volume, similar to a Stratasys machine, and that it has two heads to possibly facilitate using ABS with one and support material with the other (again, like the Stratasys machines). On the surface, you might think they were comparable albeit with one not having a heated platform. Surely a heated platform alone isn't worth 10s of thousands of dollars. I wonder, for example, if the Stratsys uses support material much more effectively or something, enabling a larger variety of different geometries or something like that.

[Geoff]

I think you do need the heated bed to print ABS without warpage

You need a heated bed for ABS full stop, if it won't stick to the plate, warping is the least of your concerns.

[mkart]

I thought the glue it comes with along with the heated and enclosed environment the CubePro provides, might be sufficient. Are you saying that you feel there are basically no good low-cost ABS printers?

[Geoff]

I thought the glue it comes with along with the heated and enclosed environment the CubePro provides, might be sufficient. Are you saying that you feel there are basically no good low-cost ABS printers?

No, I would not and did not say the cube pro was a no good low cost ABS printer - I said you need a heated bed to print ABS effectively (or a chamber I guess that cab retain that sort of heat.)

I don't own one, have never used one nor have I seen one in action so I can't say they are a good or bad machine, it does claim to print in Nylon, so it is possible the heat generated from the super hot hot end heats the chamber effectively? I don't know.
They claim to print ABS/PLA/Nylon, I hope they would not be charging $3000 for a machine that does not perform an advertised function well.