Complete mess after a few layers, beginner needs help :)

[ChrisjuhNL]

Hi everyone, I'm new to 3d printing and have just managed to get a good first layer down of my very own design.
After running for about 30 minutes my print went complete haywire, I suspect shortly after starting with the supports. I wasn't there to witness it but see the photos below:

IMG_0574-min.jpg
IMG_0573-min.jpg
IMG_0572-min.jpg


Does anyone have any idea where to look next? Should I look at my printer settings, or at my design?

My printer is a Creality Ender-3X, you can find the object file I tried to print here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4318787

My design was sliced with Ultimaker Cura and printed with the following settings:

Generic PLA 0.4mm Nozzle (1.75 PLA filament)
Layer Height: 0.2mm
Wall Thickness 1.2mm
Wall Line Count 3
Top/Bottom Thickness 0.8mm
Top Thickness 0.8mm
Top Layers 4
Bottom Thickness 0.8
Horizontal Expansion 0
Infill Density 20%
Infill Patern Cubic
Printing Temperature 200 C
Build Plate Temperature 60 C
Print Speed 50 mm/s
Top/Bottom Speed 20 mm/s
Retraction Enabled
Enable Print Cooling
Fan Speed 100%
Support Enabled
Support Placement Everywhere
Support Overhang Angle 45
Build Plate adhesion Type Skirt

If more information is necessary let me know.

Thanks in advance!

[René--]

The specified file is no longer available.
What was it? Can you make the file you have available?
What happens when you print a 20x20 calibration cube.

[Roberts_Clif]

It is difficult to say , Though I believe that the model released from the bed.

What do you have for a bed surface and was it cleaned before the print was started.

[curious aardvark]

looks like the bed is not level. The side with the mess is either nearer or further away from the print nozzle than the other side.
OR you have an automatic bed levelling sensor and it's over compensated on the one side.
OR the bed is not stable.
Also which side is the mess on ?
ie: near the extruder (left as you look at the control panel) or the right ?

It's an ender 3 - so could be almost anything.
So I've started with all the ways I can think of that the bed might not be level.

(has a look at the 3x) OH MY GOD, just when you think they've madethe design as bad as they can, they go and take a chunk out of the base frame and make it even worse !
You now have t worry about how level the surface the bloody thing is sitting on is. Sheesh.
I'm going to take a wild guess that the bad side is on the right ? (my first guess was left).
Someone at creality REALLY hates Gwailo !

[ChrisjuhNL]

The specified file is no longer available.
What was it? Can you make the file you have available?
What happens when you print a 20x20 calibration cube.

It was a custom design of mine. I re-uploaded the design and you should be able to access it now: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4318787
I'm going to give the 20x20 calibration cube a try tomorrow and get back to you with the results.

It is difficult to say , Though I believe that the model released from the bed.

What do you have for a bed surface and was it cleaned before the print was started.

I use a glass bed surface, cleaned it before with some vodka (next best think I had in the house to degrease the bed surface) and sprayed some of my GFs hairspray on it.
I've had a few problems getting my first layer down, I tried glue stick as well, this caused imperfections and didn't work really well.

looks like the bed is not level. The side with the mess is either nearer or further away from the print nozzle than the other side.
OR you have an automatic bed levelling sensor and it's over compensated on the one side.
OR the bed is not stable.
Also which side is the mess on ?
ie: near the extruder (left as you look at the control panel) or the right ?

It's an ender 3 - so could be almost anything.
So I've started with all the ways I can think of that the bed might not be level.

(has a look at the 3x) OH MY GOD, just when you think they've madethe design as bad as they can, they go and take a chunk out of the base frame and make it even worse !
You now have t worry about how level the surface the bloody thing is sitting on is. Sheesh.
I'm going to take a wild guess that the bad side is on the right ? (my first guess was left).
Someone at creality REALLY hates Gwailo !

I've had some issues getting a good first layer down, after manually re-leveling the bed for a couple of times using a thin playing card I managed to get a successful first layer.
As far as I know I do not have an automatic bed leveling sensor. And how do I address an unstable bed surface?

The mess was on the left side as I look at the control panel, on the side of the extruder.

The printer is sitting on a closet in my basement, could the leveling of the printer on the closet be an issue? I did not check the level of the closet, good chance it's off by at least a bit.

[curious aardvark]

left eh ?
The odds are that side is slightly higher (and we are talking tenths of a millimetre here NOT visible to the human eye). Given that they've taken the front of the frame away it's no longer a stable platform.
My advice would be to get a sheet of 3-5mm (I have a 5mm sheet under my ctc i2 prob) aluminium and make some brackets and bolt the whole thing to the aluminium. That way you can put the machine wherever you like and the frame will be rigid and flat.

The odds are the left side is slightly (see NOT visible comment above) higher than the right.

One thing I would recommend - replace the bog standard levelling nuts with nylock nylon locking nuts. Then screw them down till the springs are really tight. THEN level the bed.
That way you have maximum tension and the odds are that levelling (assuming you've bolted it to something stable) will be once a year operation - if that.

Hairspray is not great for pla.
Either get a sheet of self adhesive PEI or some dimafix. Best printer adhesive I've ever used. Picked up about 40ml at the tct show a couple of years ago - still got more than half left. It really Lasts ! :-)

On the positive side it does sound like it's mainly a bed levelling issue.

The other thing to check is that the gantry is level and that there is no play between the right bearings and the upright extrusion. With it just having the one z-motor on the left, ANY play in the right side wheels will lead to uneven lifting and you'll get the same results as with an uneven bed.

So three basic things could be causing the problem.
Uneven frame, uneven bed, uneven x/z gantry.
And possibly other issues I haven't thought of.

[René--]

It seems that the bed is not properly adjusted.
Use an 80grams A4 (0.10mm) for this,
and not a playing card because it is too thick.
If you want to keep the bed clean, use detergent and no alcohol.
I myself use Dasty super degreaser from the Wibra.
Did a test print of your design,
the first layer and a small piece of the second layer.

Do not use hairspray on the original Creality glass plate!
This glass plate becomes 'rougher' the higher the temperature.
This will make the PLA adhere well, and when the glass plate has cooled down (23 degrees) you can easily remove your work piece.

Before printing again, first clean the glass plate with hot water and some washing-up liquid.
see fig.


Het lijkt erop dat het bed niet goed ingesteld is.
Gebruik hiervoor een 80grams A4tje (0.10mm),
en niet een speelkaart want die is te dik.
Als je het bed goed schoon wilt hebben,
maak dan gebruik van afwasmiddel en geen alcohol.
Zelf maak ik gebruik van Dasty superontvetter van de Wibra.
Heb een test print gedaan van je ontwerp, de eerste laag en een klein stukje van de tweede laag.

Op de originele glasplaat van Creality absolute geen haarlak gebruiken!
Deze glasplaat word 'ruwer' naarmate de temperatuur hoger is.
Hierdoor zal de PLA prima hechten, en als de glasplaat is afgekoeld
(23 graden) kun je het werkstuk zonder moeite loshalen.

Voordat je weer gaat printen, maak eerst de glasplaat goed schoon
met heet water en wat afwasmiddel.
zie afb.

René

[ChrisjuhNL]

Thanks a lot for the help so far, it's been beyond my expectations!

left eh ?
The odds are that side is slightly higher (and we are talking tenths of a millimetre here NOT visible to the human eye). Given that they've taken the front of the frame away it's no longer a stable platform.
My advice would be to get a sheet of 3-5mm (I have a 5mm sheet under my ctc i2 prob) aluminium and make some brackets and bolt the whole thing to the aluminium. That way you can put the machine wherever you like and the frame will be rigid and flat.

The odds are the left side is slightly (see NOT visible comment above) higher than the right.

One thing I would recommend - replace the bog standard levelling nuts with nylock nylon locking nuts. Then screw them down till the springs are really tight. THEN level the bed.
That way you have maximum tension and the odds are that levelling (assuming you've bolted it to something stable) will be once a year operation - if that.

Hairspray is not great for pla.
Either get a sheet of self adhesive PEI or some dimafix. Best printer adhesive I've ever used. Picked up about 40ml at the tct show a couple of years ago - still got more than half left. It really Lasts ! :-)

On the positive side it does sound like it's mainly a bed levelling issue.

The other thing to check is that the gantry is level and that there is no play between the right bearings and the upright extrusion. With it just having the one z-motor on the left, ANY play in the right side wheels will lead to uneven lifting and you'll get the same results as with an uneven bed.

So three basic things could be causing the problem.
Uneven frame, uneven bed, uneven x/z gantry.
And possibly other issues I haven't thought of.

If the bad weather here keeps up I'm going to head to my workshop and fix a plate of (straight) sheet metal to the frame and put some nylon locking bolts to level the bed (at maximum tension). I've checked the gantry but there's no play between the bearings and the upright extrusion, I've also measured the vertical distance between the gantry and the frame, they measured both identical on the left and right suggesting it is level (to the frame at least)

It seems that the bed is not properly adjusted.
Use an 80grams A4 (0.10mm) for this,
and not a playing card because it is too thick.
If you want to keep the bed clean, use detergent and no alcohol.
I myself use Dasty super degreaser from the Wibra.
Did a test print of your design,
the first layer and a small piece of the second layer.

Do not use hairspray on the original Creality glass plate!
This glass plate becomes 'rougher' the higher the temperature.
This will make the PLA adhere well, and when the glass plate has cooled down (23 degrees) you can easily remove your work piece.

Before printing again, first clean the glass plate with hot water and some washing-up liquid.
see fig.


Het lijkt erop dat het bed niet goed ingesteld is.
Gebruik hiervoor een 80grams A4tje (0.10mm),
en niet een speelkaart want die is te dik.
Als je het bed goed schoon wilt hebben,
maak dan gebruik van afwasmiddel en geen alcohol.
Zelf maak ik gebruik van Dasty superontvetter van de Wibra.
Heb een test print gedaan van je ontwerp, de eerste laag en een klein stukje van de tweede laag.

Op de originele glasplaat van Creality absolute geen haarlak gebruiken!
Deze glasplaat word 'ruwer' naarmate de temperatuur hoger is.
Hierdoor zal de PLA prima hechten, en als de glasplaat is afgekoeld
(23 graden) kun je het werkstuk zonder moeite loshalen.

Voordat je weer gaat printen, maak eerst de glasplaat goed schoon
met heet water en wat afwasmiddel.
zie afb.

René

I've printed the 20x20 calibration cube, at first glance the results seemed good but after taking closer look I can see the Y & X axis seem to be "pushed down" the first few layers.
I did clean the bed with soap as you suggested and did not use hairspray this time

IMG-0613-min.jpg
IMG-0616-min.jpg
IMG-0612-min.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this indicate that the nozzle is too close to the bed?

Everything seems to point to a not correctly leveled bed, you're suggesting A4 80grams 0.1mm thin paper, I can't tell for certain what type of paper I have laying around.
I do own a metric feeler gauge with the following thicknesses: 0.05 0.10 0.15 0.20 0.25 0.30 0.35 0.40 0.45 0.500.55 0.60 0.65 0.70 0.75 0.80 0.85 0.90 0.95 & 1.00mm

Would that be practical to level the bed with, and if so what thickness would I go for (0.1mm?).

I see you're using the same printer setup as me, I'm wondering if you did any modifications to it to improve printing quality/stability, and if so what would you recommend me doing?

[René--]

What you are showing now is called an elephant foot.
This also has to do with the correct distance from the nozzle.
But also that the first few layers are not cooled.
In cura you can set this at cooling.
When using PLA, the cooling fan for the nozzle must be on from the first layer.

See also, https://all3dp.com/2/elephant-s-foot...em-easy-fixes/

I also use a feeler gauge where I set the bed (above the four bolts) to 0.10mm in the four corners.
But because my bed is slightly higher in the middle, I compensate the Z value in cura by 0.08mm.
This is the difference in height from the center to the corners.

I did adjust some things, most of which is cosmetic.
You will come across many well-intentioned changes on the web.
Most of it does not contribute to improvement!

What is not in the manual is the following.
When you receive the printer, the bottom part is already assembled.
You must first align this.
You do this by retightening the four Allen screws in the middle at the bottom.
Then place the printer on a flat surface, e.g. a countertop.
Now loosen the four Allen screws on the left and right and check whether the frame is stable.
If so, tighten the four Allen screws on each side.
Now you can start with the top section, using a small metal block hook to set the vertical profiles 90 degrees.
The more accurately you do this, the more accurately the printer will print.
Also make sure that the two straps are properly tensioned.

Then make sure that the bed is properly leveled, take your time because this is important!
Before you print objects, you first print a number of calibration files.
With this you can adjust the E-steps for X Y Z and E and you will also find out whether the nozzle height is correct.
Tomorrow I will report the values i use here, which you can then copy into the firmware.
This is done with the standard controller of the Ender.

If everything is to your liking, you can see if you need to make any adjustments to the printer.
So I would wait a little longer to mount the printer on a plate.

-

Wat je nu laat zien heet een olifant voet.
Dit heeft ook te maken met de juiste afstand van de nozzle.
Maar ook dat de eerste paar layers niet gekoeld worden.
In cura kun je dit instellen bij cooling.
Bij gebruik van PLA moet de koeling fan voor de nozzle vanaf de eerste layer al aanstaan.

Zie ook, https://all3dp.com/2/elephant-s-foot...em-easy-fixes/

Ook ik gebruik een voelermaat waarbij ik in de vier hoeken het bed (boven de vier bouten) instel op 0.10mm.
Maar omdat mijn bed in het midden iets hoger is, compenseer ik de Z waarde in cura met 0.08mm.
Dit is het hoogteverschil van het midden ten opzichte van de hoeken.

Ik heb wel wat dingen aangepast, waarvan het meeste cosmetische is.
Op het web kom je veel goedbedoelde aanpassingen tegen.
Het meeste draagt niet bij tot verbetering!

Wat niet in de handleiding staat is het volgende.
Als je de printer ontvangt is het onderste gedeelte al geassembleerd.
Deze moet je eerst uit richten.
Dit doe je door de vier inbusbouten in het midden aan de onderkant na te trekken.
Daarna zet je de printer op een vlak vlak b.v. een aanrecht.
Nu draai je links en rechts de vier inbusbouten iets los en controleer of het frame stabiel staat.
Als dat zo is, draai je aan weerskanten de vier inbusbouten weer aan.
Nu kun je met de boven gedeelte beginnen, waarbij je gebruik van een klein metaal blokhaakje
om de verticale profielen 90 graden te zetten. Hoe nauwkeuriger je dit doet hoe nauwkeuriger zal de printer printen.
Zorg er ook voor dat de twee riemen goed gespannen zijn.

Zorg je er vervolgens voor dat het bed goed geleveld is, neem daar de tijd voor want dit is belangrijk!
Voordat je objecten gaat printen, ga je eerst een aantal calibratie bestanden printen.
Hiermee kun je de E-steps voor X Y Z en E aanpassen en kom je er ook achter of de nozzle hoogte goed staat.
Ik zal morgen de waarden die ik gebruik hier melden, die kun je dan overnemen in de firmware.
Dit gaat met de standaard controller van de Ender.

Als alles naar wens is kun je gaan kijken of je aanpassingen moet gaan doen aan de printer.
Ik zou dus nog even wachten met de printer te monteren op een plaat.

René