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  1. #21
    Engineer-in-Training
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    May 2018
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    you got a link to a US seller of printbite?

  2. #22
    Super Moderator curious aardvark's Avatar
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    just jason as far as I know, he'll post to anywhere.
    https://flex3drive.com/product/printbite/

    email him and he can tell you if he's got a us distributitor.

    3dfilaprint.com have a us warehouse these days - they stock it.

  3. #23
    Engineer-in-Training
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    Will drop him a line!
    Thanks!

  4. #24
    One of the parts we print regularly is a pull tab for insect screens. It is a very challenging print job because we have then oriented on their side so we can print higher quantities per batch. It is the print job I am basing the notes below on.

    MAGIGOO: I thought this was crazy expensive when we ordered our tube...but after receiving it, I see it will last a very long time...so per use, its very inexpensive. We tried using the MAGIGOO for the past three weeks, and it seems to help a little....but not much, maybe 10% improvement in yield. Using only the Kapton tape, we would yield 60-70% of the clips on average. Adding MAGIGOO increased that to 70-80% yield. It seemed that our jobs run immediately after new application would have the best yield, and by the 3rd job, yield decreased noticeably...so we would reapply for every other print job.

    PEI: I received these PEI sheets and applied to the 1st printer a few days ago...after good initial impressions, I applied the 2nd sheet to our 2nd printer. After applying the PEI sheet on the 1st printer, I have run 2 jobs, the first one only lost 4 clips, and the 1nd job (pictured) only lost 1 clip. So far, I am very happy with the PEI performance. I will update in a few weeks with more detailed & additional observations.

    This is the PEI sheet I ordered - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #25
    Super Moderator curious aardvark's Avatar
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    so you're making proper end usage parts, 80 at a go !
    I am impressed :-)

    The pei 'stick when hot but not when cold' does work well.
    Pretty sure printbite is a type of pei. The sheet on my delta has been going for nearly 3 years.
    I do find you need to up the bed temp a little. So my standard pla bed temp is 65c - and I get no issues at that. The normal 50c for pla, doesn't work as well.
    It's interesting that the pei does better than the magigoo (I did 'acquire' a half litre bottle of some kind of print glue at tct, so I'm set for life lol)
    I found that fresh magigoo will stick even the most detailed prints.
    Mind you I'm printing in a cold garage with about 50% humidity, so ambient conditions could make all the difference. You're somewhere tropical, right ?

  6. #26
    Engineer-in-Training
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    May 2018
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    From what i recall the OP never printed any calibration models to set starting Z offset properly which could be the only thing wrong as it needs to be changed per layer height and it can be functional differences between 70C bed and a 110C bed. Adding the thick layer of PIE to a bed that is not close enough to start would help and would help more than adding a paint on liquid.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by curious aardvark View Post
    so you're making proper end usage parts, 80 at a go !
    I am impressed :-)

    The pei 'stick when hot but not when cold' does work well.
    Pretty sure printbite is a type of pei. The sheet on my delta has been going for nearly 3 years.
    I do find you need to up the bed temp a little. So my standard pla bed temp is 65c - and I get no issues at that. The normal 50c for pla, doesn't work as well.
    It's interesting that the pei does better than the magigoo (I did 'acquire' a half litre bottle of some kind of print glue at tct, so I'm set for life lol)
    I found that fresh magigoo will stick even the most detailed prints.
    Mind you I'm printing in a cold garage with about 50% humidity, so ambient conditions could make all the difference. You're somewhere tropical, right ?
    Thanks CA...Yes, this is tropical Belize (Central America...so we are usually printing at 90-100F with 60-95% humidity, definitely not ideal conditions. We have an AC room, and have been conducting testing with one machine in the room and the other outside the room. We keep both printers running 50-70 hours per week if possible...we have printed more than two million individual parts since we purchased our first printer. We primarily use the printers for small-scale mass production of end usage parts...but we have also designed and printed more than 100 unique models for the purpose of rapid prototyping for R&D efforts. I have attached our printer menu...these jobs are all saved on the SD cards of each printer so we can print independent from a PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by airscapes View Post
    From what i recall the OP never printed any calibration models to set starting Z offset properly which could be the only thing wrong as it needs to be changed per layer height and it can be functional differences between 70C bed and a 110C bed. Adding the thick layer of PIE to a bed that is not close enough to start would help and would help more than adding a paint on liquid.
    AS, while we have not used "calibration models"...that is not to say that we have not set & reset Z-offest. We play with it regularly and are well aware of its effect on the print adherence & quality. We use the Makergear bed leveling wizard, or the wizard in the "Simply 3D" software to re-calibrate occasionally, and we use an automotive feeler gauge to ensure our hot end is approx 0.30mm from the build surface (remember, we are using 0.5mm nozzles).

    When we applied the PEI sheets, they are much thicker than 0.3mm...so Z offset adjustment was forced.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #28
    Engineer-in-Training
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    May 2018
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    Well if you are so inclined I have attache 2 models that can be used to verify the your are correct. I typically have first layer height set to 100% in S3D as I don't need to compensate for anything being the Z is set per my layer height. With at 3.5 nozzle and extrusion width of .4 the 2 models I will attempt to attach are for .2 and .3 mm layer height and should be 2mm and 3mm tall as per the names. I adjust M206 Zxx.xx to produce a model that this .02mm shorter which seems to provide the best sticking power without first layer distortion. You can place these in a grid to check level as well. Just measure the height of the completed model with a digital caliper, you would be surprised how accurate your M2 is. These are only 16mm square if I recall so does not take long to do.
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  9. #29
    Your 3mm calibration model is printing at 3.6mm tall....

  10. #30
    Engineer-in-Training
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    if you are using a .3 layer than you Z offset is .6 too high and why you are having adhesion issues
    I can provide instructions MG support gave me when I first got may machine and realized the quick start thing was not very good..

    How to alter your Z-offset with the M2 Rev. E:
    You can fine tune the bed height without the QuickStart App. It involves sending gcode commands to your printer which can be done in the QuickStart App, PronterFace, or the Machine Control Panel in Simplify3D.

    1. Reset your printer so that you are only saving the changed Z-offset to your Rambo board. Navigate to whatever communication platform you choose. And connect to your printer.

    2. It may start updating with temperatures every few seconds. It is best to shut this off. (For example, in the Machine Control Panel of S3D press the “Verbose” radio button.)

    3. Next, send a “M503” command. This will display your printers settings stored in EEPROM.

    4. Look for an M206 in the communication window, these are your offsets for every axis. Then find what value is set for Z. It should be something around 10 to 14 (the unit is millimeters).

    5. If you make this value larger your bed will start closer and if you make it smaller your bed will start further away.

    6. Enter a new z-offset with “M206 Zxxx” (replace xxx with whatever number you want).

    7. Send a “M500” to save the Z-offset to your printer.

    8. The new offset will only be used after you home the Z-axis. this can be accomplished by printing something (most gcode has a homing command at the beginning) or manually sending a “G28
    Last edited by airscapes; 10-10-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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