BETA Delays

[tookys]

In the Jan. 5th update it was stated that the beta design was finalized. It is now FEB. 25th. (7weeks later)(3 weeks since the last update) and still not a single word on when the beta's are going to be sent out.

We beta's paid $400 for the beta experience(2x$100 printers +$400 exp= $600). Its nice and all that yall are making improvements, but what are yall leaving for us beta's to do. We paid to be part of the design and improvement of the peachy, not just to recieve a early almost finalized design.

These printers are over 2 months late now. And still not a word of a official date of when we will gt them.


Honestly im almost to the point of giving up and asking for my beta money back.

[nka]

tookys, thrust me, they are working hard to make everything shipped very soon. I know how much you want it, as I am in the same boat... I want to test this thing, print case for my project, print toys for my kids, etc... but if they ship you a Beta product that dosent work well, you'll be even more frustrated. Betting doing this right the first time with a couple a week more. Think that this haven been done before, it's not like they could rely to something already existing.

It's a Beta, not an Alpha. You need a working Peachy to test if something could be better and improve thing. Alpha (current stage) is when thing are barely working.

Also, just want to point something about your last statement. Kickstarter is a way to help "kick start" a business, not to buy stuff. You did invest into Rylan cause you trusted he will do a something great. In exchange, Rylan if offering you a Peachy and a change to be among the first to Beta test the products. You did not "buy" a Peachy, it's a reward!

Dont ask for a refund, they are very near to give you something (as a Beta tester) and I'm sure you will regret it if you pull out! Also, as far as I know, they say they were still on track for the customer delivery, just delaying the beta kit.

btw, they seems to do an update every 2 week approx, I'm sure we will see something soon (since if have been almost 3 week)! They must be busy packing thing!

[Anuvin]

Good post nka.

tookys, all the betas are in same boat as you. We are chewing out fingernails, and trying not to let the lag weigh on our minds. So know that many sympathize.

But nka hit it square on the head, we have all given our money to a startup in exchange for a device still in development. Give them their time, and we shall reap the rewards united.

[Yourtime]

Honestly im almost to the point of giving up and asking for my beta money back.

Honestly... there are sure more than enough people outside that would be pleased to be able to take your place.
It's a kickstarter project that means its a project not a finished product (yeah, its that phrase).
Did you ever make a project that takes more than 1000 workhours? It's not easy to calculate things already half or a year ahead, specially when you build something innovative that most people doesnt even know how to do it or which problems comes together.
Please try to sit and wait, here is a snickers , its not only the big backers that wait, also the low ones. these have to imagine that it could take longer for them to get it too also to see the first experiements of your prints

I backed many games before and I have seen games that give me 2 updates in 3 months and they are already over the time for a longer time, so don't think so bad already now.

[Slatye]

As an end-user, I'd like to see the betas ship - but it'd be even better if the betas were delayed until they're working.

The point of a beta is that the developers think all the major bugs are ironed out (minor ones can be worked around) and they need the beta testers to put lots of work-hours on the printer to find any additional problems. If the developers know that there are major problems with the units that'll limit how much testing the beta testers can do, there is absolutely no point shipping anything.

I don't know what happened with the Makibox beta program (the customers never really heard any feedback from any of the beta testers) but I can tell you the results: the final customers have become beta testers. Lots of issues popping up with production units that really, really should have been found and fixed in the betas. Since production is in full swing, the issues are being fixed on the fly, resulting in many different production Makiboxes. This is clearly not good for anyone. The developers are sending out new parts after the production ones break down in normal usage, and customers are waiting months to get a working printer. I'm seriously considering just putting the Makibox away and waiting for the Peachy, but if I'm going to do that then I want the Peachy to be properly tested before it's shipped!

[tookys]

Ok, this is my first time being a beta or a kickstart backer. Yall do have a point and im sorry for being overly critical.

I guess i had the wrong impression of what betas were supposed to do. But it makes sense for them to be the final testers before the final production.

(Granted if thats the case why do we pay an extra $400 for an inferior model)

I would like to have an official ship date being 2 months since they said they finalized the kit though., and 3 weeks since their last update.

Anyways, ill cool my jets and see what happens.

[mike_biddell]

Ok, this is my first time being a beta or a kickstart backer. Yall do have a point and im sorry for being overly critical.

I guess i had the wrong impression of what betas were supposed to do. But it makes sense for them to be the final testers before the final production.

(Granted if thats the case why do we pay an extra $400 for an inferior model)

I would like to have an official ship date being 2 months since they said they finalized the kit though., and 3 weeks since their last update.

Anyways, ill cool my jets and see what happens.

I understand that everyone's getting impatient...... I cant wait to get my Peachy. However, I would rather be patient and get something really fit for purpose, than a pile of old tat, which requires many mods.

[rylangrayston]

Hey,

Sorry guys, I’m only just finding out how long the R&D of a project that goes to market really takes, I'm learning a new formula... for every month of stuff you plan to do, leave an extra 2 months for things you didn't plan to do! Having said that you guys deserve more that just an apology so I’ll keep typing...

First off I really just want to say how impressed I am with all the wonderful perspectives in this thread. You guys are all at the heart of the Peachy community and it’s so great to see how quickly you come together and share your valuable thoughts with each other!

I want you all to know that I’m chomping at my fingernails to get these betas shipped too!
Its been absolutely amazing how many unexpected things have popped up, things that we simply must deal with before shipping. Many of them are covered in updates that we just filmed a few days ago. We are currently working on these updates and they will be released in due time, but I'm going to talk about some of these things anyways because you guys deserve to have more insight into the state of the project right now.

1. Laser on/off problems - The laser module in the Peachy has its own current limiting circuit, and working with that circuit has been a real pain for many reasons:

- Sometimes we get a shipment of lasers with a completely different circuit
(Even after testing our sample lasers, we ordered more and received 500 lasers we have never seen before).
- There is no schematic for these laser’s circuits and they have many unmarked components.
- It turns out that the laser uses varying amounts of current to start and run the laser.
- Some of them do erratic things.

It took us much longer than we expected just to turn the laser on and off! It sounds like such a simple thing to do, but it turns out that we ended up having to use a 10 amp mosfet to turn it on/off simply because the laser uses really high spikes of current to turn on and to run. It’s sort of like having to use a jackhammer to press the gas pedal on you car.

2. Cure rate - I have become really good at getting the laser set to the right exposure per drip, but how I do it is a bit of a mystery. It’s not systematic at all - it’s sort of by feel, I can't really describe how I do it, and it still takes me 3 tries go get it close to just right. There are a lot of factors that affect this:

- laser power (adjustable)
- focus (changes over the the z)
- spot area (grows sinusoidally with angle of attack to the resin surface)
- spot uniformity (intensity of light is not uniform over the spot)
- resin sensitivity (resin needs more light to cure the older it gets)
- temperature of resin
- quality cleanliness of mirrors
- playing it safe with over curing is not a solution (makes z level artifacts because of surface tension break over problem)
- signal noise causing the dot to vibrate over a larger area
- non repeatable overlapping and ringing
- length of longest print layer path and laye path complexity.
- laser travel speed vs. intensity (turns out to cure one layer really smoothly we need to draw it about 7 times. We call these sublayers they’ll be talked about in a future update. You’d think that you could just slice a model 4000 times to get more layers, but that makes slicers crash or takes way too long)

Ok so with all that and more in mind, I do get this printer working every time, but its no cake walk. We can't ask users to measure all those changing factors, and I can’t do a great job of explaining it myself. Furthermore, the printer is a kit - built to be hacked and improved - so if your printer turns out different than the next guys (for better or for worse) that needs to be ok. To deal with all this we’ve come up with a test print method where you do a calibration print. The print starts out being over exposed and ends up being underexposed as it gets taller. To do this we’re writing special software that lowers the exposure of a print over it’s course. After doing this calibration print, the user will simply tell the print software at what height the print looked great, informing what exposure was just right for that printer. Being that this is result driven I'm confident it will work very well.

3. Safety - We’ve had lots of surprises here:

One big one is that practically all 405nm laser diodes are able to emit around 100mw of laser power! Of course our lasers are current limited to far safer levels, however this means if a user decides turn up the power of the laser in the printer it becomes much less safe. Of course we would not be liable after such a modification, but we still want to design a printer that does things to mitigate the dangers involved in such modifications. We might not be liable if someone damages their eyes, but regardless, we still want to take steps to make that is very unlikely. So we’ve been adding safety features that shut the printer off when its tipped over, block all laser light when printing, and are even considering developing a password protect mode that can be used to stop the printer from being used by an inexperienced operator.

As you can see there are lots of details that haven't been posted as updates yet… and there are many things I didn't talk about that will be featured in updates down the road.

Sorry I’m so bad at predicting shipping dates. I mean, sure, lots of unexpected stuff happened but that’s normal. Next time I’ll play it safer and leave a few extra months for the inevitable and unexpected stuff.

Thanks again for being a part of the project everyone! Its super great to see all the enthusiasm around getting a peachy in your hands!

[tookys]

Sorry to have jumped the gun. And thank you rylangrayston for the info.

I didnt realize that there was still issues with the laser and software. I still eagerly wait for the update you mentioned. And hope to have a peachy soon.

[Anuvin]

Rylan! So nice to get info straight from the source. Can't wait for the updates, they are always great.

I love to be excited about getting my printer. I almost think that I will miss being anxious when I do get it.

The gratification of getting it and playing with it are going to be awesome, but in the mean time, it is really nice to have something to look forward to.

tookys, we are all hoping that same thing. Be comforted knowing that you are not alone.