Printing car parts?

Hi all, new here. A question for all you 3D printer guys: Do you think that I could possibly use a 3D printer, to print car parts? Are there any obstacles to this, or any reason this shouldn't be done? I buy and sell used cars a lot, and I'm always needing some little plastic (and sometimes metal) part. Often times interior parts will crack, as well as all other manner of car part that die, as I'm sure you're all well aware. The other day I had a perfectly good fuel pump assembly that I had to pay $85 to replace. All that was wrong with it, was the solid piece plastic cap was cracked. That's it. It had a crack in it. If I could have just used a 3D printer to print me a new plastic "cap" for this fuel pump assembly, I wouldn't have had to pay $85 for a new cap. Or like yesterday, I just needed a new interior vent for the dash on a Ford Focus. Had to buy one for $17. It was a solid piece. Couldn't I have just printed a new one?

Next question:

If I can do it, what is a good 3D printer for this purpose? What's a good 3D printer for a newbie, and that has the... size capacity to print parts that are up 1.5 to 2 feet long?

Yes. And no. Some parts are a dream for a 3D printer; others are a nightmare.

Simple brackets not exposed to excessive heat can be done in standard materials like ABS. Parts exposed to more heat need higher temperature plastics, like PC or PEEK. And beware of your orientation; think of the layers of a print as potential cleavage planes.

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Originally Posted by Davo

Yes. And no. Some parts are a dream for a 3D printer; others are a nightmare.

Simple brackets not exposed to excessive heat can be done in standard materials like ABS. Parts exposed to more heat need higher temperature plastics, like PC or PEEK. And beware of your orientation; think of the layers of a print as potential cleavage planes.

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Ok thanks for the reply. So would PC or PEEK be something that is too expensive to use with a 3D printer, in the manner that I'm talking about? Just sort of at the hobbyist level. I understand what you're saying about all those heat cycles.

Also, when you talk about cleavage planes, that reminds me of structural integrity. Are you saying that perhaps the created part, might be weaker than the original part? And not able to stand up to the use that it would see on an automobile? What with all the vibrations, and the weight that may be pressed upon it.

PEEK is brutally expensive even in solid chunks; I can only imagine what they get for it as filament. I bet it would make those replacement parts look like a bargain. And Davo is right about the cleavage planes; FDM parts have pretty good strength in the XY plane, but are weak in the Z direction, since all those layers have weak adhesion to one another. When you're orienting it for printing, it's good to take that into account.

polycarbonate is fairly cheap to buy - in comparison to peek anyway.
But it is an absolute nightmare to print with. Even with an enclosed print volume, it either doesn't stick to anything or it sticks to the point it won't let go.

The other thing to bear in mind is that you will generally need to design the parts from scratch, yourself.
You might find some models already existing on the interweb - thingiverse is pretty good for car parts.
https://www.thingiverse.com/search/p...0592ff70aee457

But most likely you'll need to get a digital caliper and do it yourself.

So factor in the time taken to reverse engineer the part and then print it and the materials against going down a scrapyard and getting a used one.

Thanks again for the replies. This has been very helpful.

So two things now:

1. It seems like what I really need to know, is what printed parts would actually be able to stand up to being on a vehicle. Up until now I didn't really think that the strength of a 3D printed part would be much of an issue. Some people are printing (and using to some degree) knives and other such tools. How would I be able to figure out if a printed part, would ever be strong enough to handle use on an automobile? I guess that's my real question here. So many of them, I just don't see any reason they wouldn't work perfectly. Then again, someone already said that many of them would work just fine. Perhaps someone could cite a few examples of parts that would seem to be fine, but really wouldn't be strong enough. Obviously I'd never make any attempt to print anything that wasn't already plastic from the factory.

2. Don't some 3D printers have a scanner? I've seen videos where you can put a part in a scanner, and it will make a model of it and send it over to the printer to be printed. I guess I just know so little of 3D printers that I didn't know that they don't generally come with such a scanner. And even then, you have the problem of the original part being broken. You'd have to somehow deal with the broken aspect of the part, so that the printer didn't just print another broken part. Which may be doable, through the use of glue. While the glue wouldn't hold up on the car, it may be enough to make the printer just print the part without the crack in it, for example.

Also be aware that some chemicals act as solvents for various materials. So depending what your pump cap was printed in, exposure to the fuel might reduce it to goo.

I know that Jay Leno uses 3D printers to make parts for his cars but he has expensive 3D printers, not desktop 3D printers. Sometimes, he uses 3D printers to make parts that are to be made another way such as casting. He has 3D scanners and 3D modeling software. For example, the only part for a car was broken and there are no good parts. He scans the part into 3D modeling software, clean up and fix the part, and prints the part. He also uses CNC machines for making new parts.

Look at videos at https://www.google.com/search?q=jay+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

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Originally Posted by Marm

Also be aware that some chemicals act as solvents for various materials. So depending what your pump cap was printed in, exposure to the fuel might reduce it to goo.

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Ouch. Its starting to seem like most of the parts that you can print, are just going to be interior parts. Which is actually very helpful just by itself. Interior parts are one of the primary types of parts that I'm always needing to replace. Although some of them are quite large, such as door panels. Plenty of them are small though.

Really most of the parts I'd want to print are plastic. When it comes to metal... I don't know. Typically the metal parts can be had so cheaply that there really isn't much need for printing them. In Leno's case of course, he's dealing with a total lack of the ability to ever be able to buy the part.

Its the plastic parts that tend to fail so often. Especially in the interiors. Well, here in Texas anyway. We've got brutal sun and combine that with normal wear and tear, and its hell on some of these interiors over the years. And interior parts get expensive fast.

Notice I said some chemicals. And it should have said "can act as solvents for some of the various materials". Some filaments are completely safe vs a petrochemical, some aren't. And you have to consider temps too. Printing an oil cap is probably a bad bad idea. But a fuel cap might hold up just fine, probably won't pass an emissions test though.
But as mentioned, check thingiverse, there are many interior parts to be had, and if you check the parts guides lists (you are obviously more familiar with those than I am), you can probably find identical parts that span multiple models.

But if you have the inclination, a cheap set of calipers and other measuring devices will get you 90% of the way to designing clone parts on your own. If you get good at it, set up a website that sells each design for a buck or two. Might as well recoup even more of your hard work.

3d scanning is in it's infancy.
It's not good with holes or voids in objects and the cheapest desktop model that's worth having is over $1000. The einscan: http://3dprintboard.com/forumdisplay...n-S-3D-scanner
The 'affordable' (their term, not mine :-) industrial units start at around the $10-20,000 mark.

By the time you scanned a part and spent a couple days tidying up the point cloud and adding all the details the scanner missed, you'll probably find that it's easier to do it yourself.

One of the things that keeps cropping up from our american members is how hot it gets in your cars. Not an issue in the uk.
So you'll need to be using pet-g, which is a good mechanical plastic with a higher softening point than abs or pla.

There are also some pla's around that you cook after printing, they shrink slightly, but get stronger and a lot more heat resistant. Up past the 100c mark, apparently.

I've made and replaced plenty of household items, and can't see any issues with plastic car parts - but probably best to avoid engine parts.

So yes it's doable, but you will need to do most of it yourself :-)

For small parts like you mention, 3D printing can be a good solution.
I heard it has some issues (almost all printers do), but the da Vinci 1.0 AiO has an integrated 3D scanner and fair build volume and price tag so looks like a good one to begin with.

Think of a layered part more like wood than plastic, structurally. It can break across the seams. So for structural parts carrying heavy loads you need additional solutions like conjoining parts with different layer orientations or epoxy reinforcement. For other parts, ABS is structurally good but not so good against fuels and UV radiation. You can have nylon parts produced through SLS processes at 3rd party services like Shapeways. It allows sizes over 2' with high accuracy and strong parts but the prices will be very steep and nylon is far from great for outdoor use. A good option will be printing in PET because it is resistant against most chemicals and weathering.

You can also think of printing larger parts for molds, in many sections. Then they will be usable for hand layup of exterior parts. Silicone casting in simple 3D printed molds works great as well. Always consider there is some manual labor involved - cleaning the print, filing, smoothening. So if you have a lot of extra time or have parts that need to be replaced in batches, 3D printing will be a solution.

The best aio (all in one) around is the zeus.
http://www.zeus.aiorobotics.com/

Cost a fair bit more than the xyz, but by all accounts you get much better results as well.

It's about as close as you can currently get to a 3d photocopier.

Thanks again for the help all. Lots to learn here. Some of the replies make me want to shy away, while others clearly point out that a 3D printer would save me a lot of money. Some of these interior parts can reach ridiculous prices. If I even printed 10 interior parts in a year, the printer would be paid for and after that, its all money in the bank. So hmm... decisions. My only concern is that even a "larger" desktop printer, only prints parts up to 8" or 20cm.

As one member posted above. That would print me a lot of parts, but I'd also run into plenty of times where it wouldn't be big enough. For me to set a good minimum... I'd have to say that I'd need to be able to print up to 12 inches or 30.5 cm. 1 meter would be ideal lol. But a printer that would print nearly everything I'd need would probably be able to print parts that were up to 22". Just to be on the safe side.

And something tells me that the bigger you get, the more expensive the printer.

Not necessarily.

Just built myself a delta from a kit.
The kits are $199 - print volume is 8 inches by 12.
Now I wouldn't ordinarily recommend it to a first timer. But sounds like you're used to making stuff and I've covered all the niggles in my build thread.
So you can get the few extra bits beforehand.
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...793#post108793

Still only 8 by 12.
However - all it needs to extend the build height are longer belts - pretty cheap and longer vertical struts, also pretty cheap. Longer filament feed tube and some wire to patch longer wires on the end stops and hot end wires.

he3d do a kit that's 280mm by 600 for another $300 bucks.
I figure I can extend mine to 200 x 600 for about another $80
Theoretically there is no actual limit to the height you could extend it to.
You just need long enough belts, enough belt tensioners (dirt cheap) and longer wires for the end stops, extruder and hot end.
However as you are dealing with a bowden setup (filament is pushed through a long tube) I'd personally probably only go as far as the 600mm build height.

That said, you can use a fl3xidrive which puts a super lightweight direct-drive extruder directly on top of the extruder and eliminates the filament tube issue.

The kit from he3d is $559 for 280mm x 600 (well 570 with the hotbed - which I would recommend). http://www.reprapmall.com/index.php?...product_id=117

Beat that :-)

Oh yeah - under no circumstances feel tempted to get the ciclops scanner. Absolute junk, does not work, will not scan anything, ever.

Thanks for the help once again. Now I'd like to ask you what is "hard" for a 3d printer to print. Would those larger printers you linked, be able to print this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-GAUGE-...tZLh5Y&vxp=mtr

It would be too hard to create a gauge bezel for a car if you don't have the part or drawings of the part. It looks like you need a big 3D printer to print that part which requires supports.

The answer is YES and NO
Yes:
- you can partialy print every single parts
- You can create your unique part by 3dprinting
NO:
- the higher cost!
- take time to "slice" sanding paper, glue...
- The results is very easy to broken, not smooth like molding plastic part.
I also did some stuff like CAR MODEL, SHIP, even AIRPLANE PARTS ( used in reality!) at my SHOP IN 3D: https://in3dplus.com

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Originally Posted by bennylava

Thanks for the help once again. Now I'd like to ask you what is "hard" for a 3d printer to print. Would those larger printers you linked, be able to print this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-GAUGE-...tZLh5Y&vxp=mtr

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Yep no problem, you'll need to use supports. But stuff like is ideal.
Bit of sanding and some black gloss paint. and it'll look better than the original.

On the other hadn, it'd be a pig to design, those organic style curves can be tricky little buggers to get just right.

Hi there !
To deal with your plastic parts, I can suggest you https://www.myminifactory.com/catego...-other-vehicle
We are a sharing platform for 3D printable designs, and we do have some car spare parts really useful.

Don't hesitate to download the pieces you need, and maybe create an account to share yours !

Thank you :)

You may want to look into Taulman 910, easy to print and made for high strength part. Just started using it but liking it's ease of use and properties.
Prints great in a .25 nozzle as as a .5.. just needs a machine that can safely achieve 255C on the hot end.

I tried eSun PLA+ filament and it's stronger than regular PLA, PETG, and ABS. I set extruder temp at 215 C, bed temp at 0 C, glass plate, and fan speed at 50% on my SainSmart Coreception printer.

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Originally Posted by bennylava

Ouch. Its starting to seem like most of the parts that you can print, are just going to be interior parts.

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That is not true. Here watch this awesome video from Teaching Tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCqwA1h3JV4&t=

I found a model of three-speed automatic transmission at https://grabcad.com/library/gearbox-...transmission-1 but it was not made to be 3D-printed. The six-speed automatic transmission at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1094616 was made to be 3D-printed but it was made for trucks, not cars. On that transmission, the blue and magenta parts are clutches that slide back and forth. The light green, dark yellow, and pink parts are bands that use levers to stop them from rotating. The three-speed transmission has very thin "wheels". I need to design a three-speed transmission with bands and clutches.

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I'm trying to make scale models of real cars with working parts. I'm not making parts for real cars. In 1960s, there was Visible Auto Chassis with working transmission, working steering gear, one working brake drum, working suspension, etc BUT it was based on 1950s cars. One time, the Visible V8 Engine had electric "starting" motor and lights for spark plugs. Now, you have to turn the crank to make it run. There are newer engine kits such as ones for Ford Mustang and Hemi V8. On Thingiverse, EricThePoolGuy made working engines and working transmission for Toyota pickup truck. I really want to keep myself busy by making cars with working parts due to the virus that may kill us all.

3d printing also makes for great molds to use for making the carbon fiber parts with. Here is a cool video on making a carbon fiber intake manifold with the 3d printing to generate a mold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-vOstYFhTQ&t=

I think this thread got hijacked near the end here.

My recommendation to you, would be to get a resin printer, I have both FDM (regular filament) and resin printers, I use both to make parts, actual end use parts whenever I can, a lot of times it's to make something temporary until a replacement can be gotten, but it keeps equipment running, so that's all we need.

Regular filament printers will almost never come out looking like you want, the amount of fine tuning, orientation, trial and error, material settings and especially support are an absolute nightmare for smaller parts with intricate details, small surface areas or smaller overhangs, the printer will do great on flats and bridges but when you do a little section with a smaller surface area, it's too hot.

I started using resin about 5 months ago and I love it, it's some more post processing a lot of times, sanding and painting if you want but the part will come out EXACTLY like the object you drew up in your software, apart from printing failures of course, there's no visible layer lines, overhangs print great and the parts are 100% solid, waterproof. Sand it, paint it and it will look like the original if done properly.

Also, as mentioned already, scanners are not that great from what I've heard, you'll need to get effecient with 3D software to do anything worthwhile, Blender is a free software with a steep learning curve, I use Sketchup PRO and 3D Studio Max, that pretty much handles all my organic and inorganic modelling needs.

For parts that are not structural and small it can be helpful, assuming you have the ability to design the part from scratch. I just made a gasket for a rear wiper shaft where it passes through the rear window. This was made of TPU and the blue one is the first one, I have since reprinted in black. It does prevent water leak when hosed down with a water hose, so should keep out rain. This part is no longer available from Chrysler and I am thinking of putting this on Ebay as I would have been willing to pay $20 for something that worked had I not been able to roll my own.

Recently I read that Porsche has produced its first complete housing for an electric drive using 3D printing. The engine-gearbox unit produced using the additive laser fusion process passed all the quality and stress tests without any problems. I know that some industrial companies use anisoprinting technology for the design and production of optimal composites through continuous fiber 3D printing. This technology is quickly adopted in the market which is impressive.