Introduction & Filament Research - HELP

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05-31-2016, 10:56 AM
RobDistrupol

Introduction & Filament Research - HELP
Hi all,

I'm here personally but want to be clear I have a business interest too - certainly not looking to sell anything at this stage, just doing some homework. I work for the biggest / one of the biggest European distributors of plastics - www.distrupol.com

99% of our business is granular plastics, but I'm doing a feasibility project to present a business case to start producing our own filament here in the UK. In terms of the practicalities of producing filament, we have an extrusion partner who are arguably the best in the country - plus coupled with our own polymer engineers and knowledge, I feel we have a leading edge. However my main questions at this stage are:
- What is the general perceived difference between 'budget' and 'premium' ABS filament?
- (An expansive question I appreciate...) What currently doesn't exist in the filament market, but you wish it did? Whether material, colour, additives, performance, sales terms...?
- Most common complaint you have about filament?
- For the UK (or even USA members I guess), would you be prepared to pay a premium for something which was "Made In UK"?
If anyone needs any polymer advice, please do ask :)

TIA,
Rob
06-30-2016, 04:37 PM
Londonship

Organics and Sustainability
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDistrupol

Hi all,
I'm here personally but want to be clear I have a business interest too - certainly not looking to sell anything at this stage, just doing some homework. I work for the biggest / one of the biggest European distributors of plastics - www.distrupol.com
99% of our business is granular plastics, but I'm doing a feasibility project to present a business case to start producing our own filament here in the UK. In terms of the practicalities of producing filament, we have an extrusion partner who are arguably the best in the country - plus coupled with our own polymer engineers and knowledge, I feel we have a leading edge. However my main questions at this stage are:

What is the general perceived difference between 'budget' and 'premium' ABS filament?
(An expansive question I appreciate...) What currently doesn't exist in the filament market, but you wish it did? Whether material, colour, additives, performance, sales terms...?
Most common complaint you have about filament?
For the UK (or even USA members I guess), would you be prepared to pay a premium for something which was "Made In UK"?

If anyone needs any polymer advice, please do ask :)
TIA,
Rob
THANKS ROB - As you say budget vs. premium, you are talking about inputs, but the consumer cares about the outputs. Depending on the product range, there will be a market willingness to develop budget materials, as well as premium products from superior materials. Just as some use a plastic fork, knife and spoon at every meal, others use a highly stylized premium alloy, all the way to sterling silver for the same activity.
I am interested in a two pronged aspect of more potential for using especially soy, A.) but perhaps other veg oils, or associated materials, at least as part of the blend. When I am telling lay people, of which I am really one, not a techie, about the real potential of 3D printing, whether at home or with the kind of neighborhood public house (i.e., FEDEX, UPS, DHL, etc. printing location) from which local deliveries or pick-ups may be possible, they look at me incredulously. The filament will be able to provide a range of characteristics, from rigid to flexible. Whether custom sized fabric items, or household goods, from bric-a-brac to furniture panels, the shipments and blends or combinations of printing "ink" will have a strong influence on product successes. Do you have any direction to turn to better understand the potential for sustainable materials?
Secondarily, edible printed materials, again with regard to soy, but this time more on the protein side, than oil, but oil may be a part of the prospective printed outputs is of interest, too. We have food grade trucks, barrels and why not printers?
Made in the UK does have a connotation of quality, for some levels of product the consistency would be important, but utility, sustainability, endurance and fitness for use, flexibility and rigidity, sensory smell, touch, taste, will ll be engineered into the filaments in due course. With metals there are cathodic and corrosive forces that impact what can be used from one material to another, and some chemical properties will be better understood to allow sustaining color, achieving blends, weaving with printing, combining 3d filiment printing with select substrates, etc. This is going to bring on a whole new world. Buckle your seat belt, Dorothy. We're not in Kansas anymore.
07-01-2016, 06:03 AM
curious aardvark
Quote:
What is the general perceived difference between 'budget' and 'premium' ABS filament? (1)
(An expansive question I appreciate...) What currently doesn't exist in the filament market, but you wish it did? Whether material, colour, additives, performance, sales terms...? (2)
Most common complaint you have about filament? (3)
For the UK (or even USA members I guess), would you be prepared to pay a premium for something which was "Made In UK"? (4)
1: I no longer use abs :-) It shrinks, it stinks and it's just a bastard to work with in general on a non-enclosed machine - my advice - concentrate on better pla's. That's where the market is.

2) Not much that isn't already out there. I could do with a VERY conductive filament that wasn't carbon based. Carbon based conductive filaments just aren't that conductive and wear out your nozzles pretty damn quick as well as leaving crud in the actual melt chamber and only coming in black.

3) The price I guess. In 2 1/2 years I've had three dodgy rolls of filament - 2 actually came with printers, the other is laywood. The rest have done pretty much what i expected - even the really cheap ones.

4) NO. Given that it wasn't being shipped from china I'd expect to pay less. To see what you're up against, check out sunlu filament on amazon.co.uk. I've tried their standard white pla, as good as anything I've paid a lot more for. And their flexible pla - not as good as polyflex, but about half the price and good enough for most things. So no, I wouldn't pay more for filament that had to be shipped a few thousand miles less :-)
At the upper end of the market check out both colorfabb products and polyflex products. In my opinion the two companies doing the most for premium quality and exotic filaments.
Yes, i'm what the americans would call a patriot. But I'm on a budget :-) Where it's made does not matter one jot to me, that it works and isn't expensive are the two main criteria I use.
07-01-2016, 07:25 AM
Ama-fessional Molder

My two cents, as an injection molder: please list the base resins used with your filaments so that we can get an idea of mechanical and chemical properties.
07-12-2016, 02:46 AM
ralphzoontjens
- What is the general perceived difference between 'budget' and 'premium' ABS filament?
Premium filaments are engineered to perform well in all areas. As soon as I detect an obvious problem with a filament, in my mind it will be classified as budget.
Problems I come across that immediately make me step to other filaments are weak layer adhesion, warping, stringing, leaving residue in the nozzle, translucency of color, and brittleness causing the filament to break inside the extruder after using it for just a couple of weeks/months.
- (An expansive question I appreciate...) What currently doesn't exist in the filament market, but you wish it did? Whether material, colour, additives, performance, sales terms...?
A strong plastic that will easily sand or be smoothened in another way.
Plastics that look like different materials without actually containing chips of those materials that deteriorate the nozzle.
A rubberlike material that is flexible and stretchy and will print with strong layer adhesion and good surface finish.
Thermochromic materials made in colors to specification.
Filaments available in any Pantone color, to custom order.
- Most common complaint you have about filament?
Weak layer adhesion - for my job I need to print prototype and end-use parts with mechanical properties as homogeneous as possible.
- For the UK (or even USA members I guess), would you be prepared to pay a premium for something which was "Made In UK"?
Yes, or for any Western country with high manufacturing standards, for that matter, even though I wouldn't pay much more for this. Labels of official approval make a large impact to customers as well.