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well I honestly think my twotrees sapphire pro2 is hands down the best built machine around.
It's a corexy setup, so really fast and precise.
The top is a solid sheet of 6mm aluminium.
The bed support rods are 12mm diameter and the base is made from a lot of 2.5mm sheet steel.
It has a few minor modifications that I think need doing.
But literally it's one printed bracket to convert to direct drive and the locking nuts for the bed levelling.
I also changed the print surface it came with for a sheet of dirt cheap self adhesive pei.
Not a necessity - (cough) unless you destroyed the original sheet adding the levelling knobs.
And a top mounted filament holder. I printed mine but you could make the same with a piece of wood and a short length of 10mm dowel and some cable ties.
And I can send you the new and improved firmware files - definitely essential.
For the money it's just insanely good value and built like a tank.
But once you've got the sapphire pro setup properly. It's totally bombproof, never needs the bed levelling, prints fast and accurate and looks great lol
https://3dprintboard.com/showthread....corexy-printer
have a look through that - the print volume is only 220x220x210.
Although I have printed a 280mm long thing on the diagonal :-)
If I had the space to put another one, i'd get one while they are still available.
As it is I've just unboxed my voxelab proxima resin printer and have not a clue where it's going to live.
Noisy damn thing (the proxima - the sapphire is completly silent in operation).
Lets put it this way - I'm already - before printing anything - considering upgrading the proxima to silent stepper driver lol
Between the cooling fans and the noisiest stepper motor I've ever heard - it's a noisy beast.
So other than the saffy.
Hmm, something enclosed with 300c nozzle would be good.
I'd like to play with polycarbonate - and at the moment I can't.
After an hour of wading through amazon, honestly the tenlog is the best I can find.
And bear in mind you don't have to use both extruders at once.
Should one die, the spare is already installed and ready to go :-)
I can't find a corexy with 300c hotend.
If necessary it would be a fairly simple upgrade (not mod :-) )
But as I've just started on my resin journey, it's not something I'll bother with.
I find that polyurethane can be used for pretty much all the high impact prints I do.
The prusa mini is a decent machine - but it is a bowden extruder and they just suck for flexible filaments, so that's limited you right there.
Here's one thing I use 'flexible' prints for: https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1638371218
The thing about polyurethane is that you can print it as thin as 0.2mm for indestructible total floppiness.
Or as solid as my loght up dog 'balls' - which are not only virtually indesructible, but dog proof as well !
It's hands down my favourite material to work with, and you need a good direct drive extruder to do so.
For the dog carts and other prosthetics, it would be perfect for all sorts of parts.
stiff when needed, bendy when needed and tougher than a honey badger on steroids :-)
So if I was getting a first printer and had the money - I genuinely can't see anything else under $1000 I would boy.
The tenlog dl3 pro 600watt 300c nozzle, jst does it all.
And an enclosure would be pretty simple to make.
I'd probably use polystyrene sheet on the outside of cheap perspex.
And don't forget you can make all your own fixtures and fittings :-)
If I had real money - my all time favourite fdm printer is a Leapfrog Bolt. Probably not much change out of $10,000
My absolute win-the-lottery-first dream 3d printer is the stratasys j55 prime O-M-G !
It's like something out of science fiction.
Five printheads, using uv cured resins, but each layer is cured immediately after deposition.
So you get finished parts straight from the machine - as with fdm - but with resin quality, full colour, texturing and multimaterials in a single print.
Has a pretty big build volume and will sit on a small desk.
I mean just WOW !
The lottery win is necessary as the resins can run up to £600 a litre - so there's that :-)
But the whole stratasys polyjet setup just blew me away at the tct last year.
But back down to earth, fdm.
Value for money and zero upgrades needed.
I just cant see anything else to match the tenlog.
The flashforge pro2 idex is a nice bit of kit, but pretty small build volume.
But it is enclosed.
But no hi-temp nozzle - 265 is a as high as it goes, and that's no good for polycarbonate.
https://www.amazon.com/FlashForge-3D...s%2C170&sr=8-8
As a box ticking exercies, only the tenlog really does it all. And you can make an enclosure easy enough.
Bear in mind that you are only looking for 40-60c inside the enclosure.
It's the consistency of the temperature for the build volume rather than the absolute temperature.
For materials that shrink a lot, keeping the whole print the same temperature until it's finished is what you are aimng for.
You're not building an oven :-)
You build an over if you want to print PEEK ;-)
Having said all that - deltas are pretty cool lol
I have a biggish one and a mini one.
But I can't find one with a 300c hotend.
I have seen one with a direct drive extruder recently.
But but a clue where.
So again we're back to box ticking and the tenlog.
Also bear in mind you canput a different size nozzle on each extruder.
So maybe a .25 for real fine work and a 0.6 for rapid printing.
Or a 0.4 and a 0.8
It just adds a whole new layer of flexibility.
Which I have just realsed I should do to me click'n'print dual extruder.
DOH !
Never occurred to me before lol
This game is a constant learning curve :-)
Right then - once I've got the proxima started off tonight, I'll have a look at the knp nozzles :-)
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Wow thanks for the wealth of knowledge. Really going to take my time and consider everything you wrote. Agree on the direct dive and flexibility with more flexible materials. You are selling me more on the Tenlog. Let me see which of those options is the one you reference with the 300C hot bed because there is a few on amazon here in the US. thanks again
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Prusa are not as expensive as they may first appear. They are brilliantly designed using high quality components from trusted suppliers, but the true value of their printers goes well beyond the base hardware. The customer support is generally excellent, the firmware is updated with genuinely useful extras quite frequently and supplied for free (as is the prusa specific slicer software that is a pleasure to use), the accessories Prusa supply (such as their Smooth PEI, textured and satin powder coated print sheets) are often unrivaled in quality, and their own range of filaments are truly excellent quality. The ecosystem is designed to work effectively and efficiently, and the printers are extremely reliable. The amount of time saved printing rather than fiddling before and after every print is impressive, and the print quality is excellent. I started the hobby many years ago with a Malyan m150 and then bought a tronxy x3a. I learned on these machines and got to grips with understanding the ins and outs of hardware and printing techniques before buying a Prusa mk3. I now have 2 x mk3s machines in a bespoke vented enclosure and I'm so impressed with Prusa that I will very likely buy their kit again in the future.
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Thanks for the feedback Titan, your comments I think is a general consensus when it comes to prusa.
I guess my question to you would be why did you go to Prusa and not go the route
curious aardvark said by making those mods to your existing printers?
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Talk to me about corxy printers, I keep reading they are much faster and the future. Is this true?
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I made lots of mods, both 'tried and tested' designs by others and bespoke parts designed by me. It improved all my various printers (I didn't previously mention that I once ran a print farm of monoprice mp10 and mp10 mini's too), but one day I realised my time was worth more than doing all the upgrades and mods myself, so I took a chance on Prusa for sheer reliability right out the box and never looked back. Building the mk3 was a joy, with excellent instructions in full English. All the parts supplied were top quality (Trinamic driver stepper motors and beautifully made parts with no poorly finished sharp edges etc.). I'd really enjoyed learning and tinkering with my earlier printers, but I'd come to the end of that road and welcomed the ease of ownership the prusa seemed to bring. Since then I've updated it to the mk3s and added a raspberry pi with camera and octoprint. It all just works. Print quality is excellent and, contrary to some people's findings, the auto bed levelling is exceptional. I certainly don't miss having to adjust the bed screws after a print was hard to get off the bed. And that literally never happens because the prusa uses instantly removable spring steel sheets with various finishes suitable for the different filament types.It all comes down to what you want as a user. I'm glad I learned about the relative basics of 3d printing on cheaper, more 'hands-on' machines, as I learned loads. But I love the sheer productivity, reliability and ease of use the prusa affords.Re. CoreXY, there's loads of info online to read about the potential highs and lows of ownership. Prusa are just about to release the XL, a CoreXY machine that looks very promising. lol. Good luck, whatever you choose.
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Appreciate the feedback, always good to hear perspective from others even with various point of view.
I started to look at SLA again thinking perhaps I can put it in the garage away from family. Than watching the post print process again brought me back to FDM. Wish there was an option of speed and print quality of Sla with 0.5mm layers but with the ease of an FDM after it finishes just pop it off and go. Aside from all the hazards of the resin just the cleanup and post cure process takes so much time. And with my OCD of keeping things clean and always ready for the next print I'll be spending more time on pre prep and post prep with SLA.
I spent quite a bit of time looking at YouTube videos comparing SLA and FDM prints. SLA is really what I'm looking for in terms of quality and strength but boy the post process is killing me just thinking about it.
I'm beginning to wonder if I should just wait until maybe some hybrid option comes out with an FDM and SLA that has the best of both worlds. Surely as time goes on there's going to be further improvements you guys would both know very well having had so much experience.
I keep leaning one direction then I get feedback from someone like you guys and I go to the other direction and I'm indecisive again.
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right lol
I do not fiddle about before or after a print.
once the machine is setup and working - it's set up and working.
The people who always fiddle, will always fiddle.
Look at the number of mods and upgrades available for prusa machines.
If you're a fiddler (lol) you'll fiddle no matter what the machine.
If you just want to print, than that's what you'll do.
Okay now I've done 2 whole prints I reckon I'm a resin expert (lol).
Well obviously not, but I am a very fast learner.
Detail level - holy smoke batman - I actually need a microscope to see some of the engraving on a 10mm bird skull I printed.
speed - yeah, impressive, the more you print at once, the faster it works per part - the exact opposite of fdm.
Materials.
Thi is where it gets interesting. I'm currently using a clear water washable resin. No discernible smell, and no inflammable liquids needed.
When printed and cured it looks and feels like slightly cloudy acrylic. This is cheap resin, so i suspect that you can get much clearer resins if necessary.
There is nowhere the range of materials availabel for resin than there is for fdm.
And won't be for a few years yet.
Post processing.
Resin
let it drip for a bit.
remove buildplate, pop into cleaned icecream tub (all the mod cons) take to sink.
rinse it all under the tap.
remove any supports, rims etc.
Pop into the cardbox box lined with aluminium foil, pop the uv spotlight on top - switch on for 10 to 20 minutes or so.
FDM post processing.
remove from printbed, remove any supports, sand if necessary.
The two systems are definitely 'horses for courses'.
For size, sheer variety of materials, practical prints and cost effectiveness - fdm uis king.
For small items that are intricate or highly detailed - but with limited materials, resin is vastly superior.
So for example - the dog prosthetics - fdm will do pretty much everything.
If you wanted to make some tricky parts form a small setup then resin might be useful.
Desinging for resin and designing for fdm - both have their specific requirements.
And it's fairly easy to work out.
I haven't designed anything specifically for the resin printer yet, still nailing down the settings and trying different slicers(the initial 'fiddle' stage).
Once I've got it where I want it - it really is plug and play.
Given how cheap a small resin machine like mine (voxelab proxima 6) is.
For the cost of a prusa. You can get both the tenlog and the proxima. With money left over for some filament, resin and a uv lamp.
One thing I will say the proxima is an impressive bit of engineering. Really heavy duty.
A resin printer has one moving part. The buld plate that simply goes up and down.
So the more solidly it is built (20mm deep linear rail and ballscrew) the more precise the platform can move.
The resolution of the proxima is 0.05mm layer height and as it;s a 2k screen - it's also equivalent to a 0.05mm nozzle diameter.
I've seen machines that claim smaller layer sizes - Um, why ?
I have to magnify prints by 60x magnification, simply to see fine detail.
That's also the cool thing about resin - you only print at the highest resolution.
Thereoretically you can print with thicker layers, but why bother ?
So if you are interested in making decorative items and small things - then resin is probably best.
For everything else go fdm.
Oh yeah - the toughest part of resin printing if you have dogs - keeping the hairs out of the vat !
worse if you have cats as they will climb on surfaces. So lots more hairs.
And don't gorget build volume. The prusa mk3+: 250 x 210 x 210 mm
Slightly larger than my sapphire.
The tenlog is 300x300x350
For fdm - Bigger is generally better.
When I was starting out, there was a lot less choice.
You bought a replicator clone. And just had to decide to get the dirt cheap ctc one with really awful reviews or the more expensive flashforge one with much better reviews.
I think i spent somewhere between £3-400 for my flashforge creator.
£200 for my he3d k200 delta
paid £80 import tax for the Klic-n-print - which i won in a competition
And £100 for the sapphire - second hand.
My i3 was £89 - and while sort of functional. At that price point you really do get what you pay for lol. But it is full prusa spec: linear guides on the printbed, direct drive extrduer and dual z-axis screws and motors.
That is the only one of my machines that will be upgraded at some point - Actually that's a lie.
My monoprice mini delta is currently awaiting a new motherboard with silent stepper drivers. And an extruder move mod.
The mini delta was a christmas present.
The proxima comes in between the delta and saffy. But that is with everything needed to make stuff.
So: small and intricate - but not necessarily super strong - resin wins, better resins are coming on the market all the time.
Big, small medium - strong, practical and decorative - fdm.
Corexy versus I3
Okay there are 4 basic ways of engineering head movement in an fdm printer (I own all 4).
1) your basic cartesian. The printbed goes up and down, the printhead moves in the x&y directions. The weight of the stepper motors are moved with the head - not fast, but reliable
2) I3 - the printhead moves left and right and up and down - the printbed moves forwards and backwards. has the potential to print very fast - but few people ever seem to do so with i3's - no clue why. Tall thin objects can be tricky. The stepper the x axis stepper motor moves with the x axis carriage.
3) delta - possible the most industrial looking. Printbed remains statitonary, printhead is moved by three stepper motors, which remian stationary. has a lightweight print carriage and is amazing for tall thin objects. But not so great for very large items.
<span class="ILfuVd"><span class="hgKElc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUN_YI46MjU
4) corexy - kind of across between a cartesian and a delta. The printhead is moved in the x&y and the build plate goes up and down. However through some magical configuratuion of the belts and stepper motors. The motors stay stationary and the head is pulled simultaneously by both motors. This results in increased speed & precision. it's no coincidence that corexy printers are the fastest currently available.
Then you've got bowden versus direct drive.
Which is a whole nother lecture lol
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Really good info as usual and the explanation of the difference between FDM printers is fantastic.
This is just info I've read and seen on various videos, the resin even the water based from my understanding should still be treated in the same manner. Should never be washed in a sink and the solids, resin in the bottom of your tub should be treated as toxic waste. The difference between the water variant is you don't need to clean it in an IPA, instead you can use water but you still treat the resin with the same level of vigor.
The post process clean up also means you need to clean the vat, and the screen must be free of left over resin. You will need to store the IPA because you will need to reuse it as it is not a cheap consumable if you throw a quart away with each print, straining the resin in the IPA is another process. Fumes was another they touched on in the videos. Post UV curing is probably best done in a cure box, another $50-100 cost as leaving it in the sun causes burn spots and doesn't have the UV-C needed apparently. Than there is the lack of filament sensor/resin sensor, so you would need automatic resin refill system(an upgrade) if you have large prints. The monochrome or RGB LCD is also a consumable similar to the base of the vat. So things to keep in mind for the life of the SLA printer.
When it comes to strength using the same volume of material SLA can't be beat if I understand, sure your infill needs to be adjusted between FDM and SLA when doing the design but as you eluded it is fairly simple. So when printing animal prosthetics it leads me to think the SLA is the better option. Now I know you mentioned build volume is an issue and you are correct most of the SLA are small but there is a few which are larger like the ancubic photon. Still not as large as FDM.
https://www.amazon.com/ANYCUBIC-Phot...%2C168&sr=8-13
It would be really nice if a hybrid 3d printer comes out. The corexy printers i read about have apparently not so square design causing issues with belt tension and design overall affecting build quality. I feel like i'm waiting for something that does not exist.
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Nope fdm is the better option.Many reasons, some I've mentioned before.Resins are not currently considered to be skin safe.The cured resins are stillimited in their physical characteristics. And 'strength' us measured in a variety of ways.Resins are - mostly - hard and quite brittle.Pla is almost as hard but a lot less brittle, skinsafe and requires very little post processing.And while there are a couple flexible resins around, they are still nowhere near as versatile, cheap or safe to use as fdm polyurethanes and flexible plas.As far as using a seperate sink.Have no plans for that.It's going to end up in the srwer system, no matter where you wash it. And to be honest there is no noticeable resin in the parts ice been making. Given what you said. Then nobody anywhere, should ever use any resin printer.So like everything, you makes your choices and you takes your chances :-)
