Help to choose the 1st 3D printer - Tronxy X5SA Pro or Creality CR-10 V2

Hello (3D) world!


As the title reveals, I'dbe grateful to get some tips and input before the purchase of myfirst 3D printer.
After viewing a lot ofspecs, review videos etc. I've boiled it down to two printers, that Ibelieve would fit my needs, and they are
Tronxy X5SA Pro
and
Creality CR-10 V2


Both of them have theirpro's and con's, as I see it, but both seem to be priceworthy"all-round" large volume 3D printers.


What do I seek in a 3Dprinter?
It has to...

• be able to print partslarger than 250 x 250 mm
• have a heated bed
• manage to print flexiblematerial as well as ABS and nylon
• be robust and sturdy
• produce at least fairlygood quality prints, although most of the parts will be of "sparepart nature"

Is there anyone out therethat has experience from any, or maybe even both, of these printers?
Which one would YOUchoose, and why?


I'm happy for all tips andideas!


Best regards,
Björn

well the creality is a bowden - so not great for flexibles.
Also creality, so will have issues ;-)

Out of those 2 I'd go for the tronxy.
Also it's the simpler of the two to convert to an enclosed and heated build volume.

Abs is pretty pointless - nylon is doable without a heated build volume - as long as you use the RIGHT nylon.

But for stability, ease of enclosing and not being a creality - I'd got for the tronxy.

Thanks for the input!
OK, that the Tronxy is simpler to convert is a plus, very good to know.
Yes, it was also my thought first I saw the Tronxy, that it's easy to enclose, compared with the Creality.
And, I've also read some good things about the CoreXY "system".

"Also creality, so will have issues"
Oh, I thought Creality stood for a reliable and "out of the box" good machine... :eek:
Well, some tweaking, adjusting and trial-and-error I have counted with in any case, but if I can avoid a machine with built-in issues, I will! :D

Quote:

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Oh, I thought Creality stood for a reliable and "out of the box" good machine...

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lol - that's what they pay a lot of people to say :-)

Since they have so far not paid me or given me a machine to 'review'.
I tend to go by the number of people who come to the forum with problems. Creality are so far ahead of any other manufacturer in the 'problem' race, that I can't see anyone ever catching up.
So - personally - I would avoid them like the corona virus !

That aside, the new tronxy looks good, titan extruder, direct drive - solid and stable looking z-axis on the bed.
Good build volume. Plus that aluminium extrusion frame is great for attaching things to.

I am also beginner in 3D printing and I am going to purchase my first one.
I am an very experienced senior engineer, both in mechanical sector as also in computers / software.
So these issues are not a problem for me, this I luck is knowledge about 3D printing and equipment.

I am living in Greece, so I have to buy anything from EU market to avoid problems with customs.

After searching a lot, I have reduced my options to 3 models:
1. Original Prusa i3 Mk3S Kit (~770 €)
2. Creality CR10S Pro V2 (~550 €)
3. TronXY X5SA Pro (~410 €)

Prusa seems -to me- to be more "professional" than the others, as also having better support.
As a plus it has an easy to add multi (5) material module, the MMU2S at a price ~300 €,
while the other two require some serious search on how they will be converted to multi material.
On the con side it has less printing volume, and in reviews there are mentioned some issues on long items.

Creality model can create much bigger volume items, but reviews mention that is difficult to remove items from plate.
Also -as they say- support is not so good.
Finally some have complains about quality, specially for previous models.

TronXY is the cheapest of 3, meaning less "lost money" if possible problems will drive to another printer.
I don't know anything about support for this printer.
In reviews there were serious issues about quality of plastic parts,
but for the new model they say most of them are metallic.
There also complains about bad quality control, missing parts on kit,s etc.
One issue (that I do not know if it creates problems) is the head movement by belt.

So any info from any of you that have experience on these models, will be helpful.
As also any other thing that I have to be careful, before purchasing a printer.

Thanks in advance.

personally I'd avoid creality in general.

The tronxy looks like decent machine, particularly the new model.

The prusa is good - but for half the price get the newer prusa mini.
slightly smaller build volume, but newer tech,

you can get the prusa mini AND the tronxy for about 100 euro more than just the prusa mk3 :-)
win win situation :-)

I can share my (so far, very short) experience:
I finally decided to go for the Tronxy X5SA Pro and bought it from Amazon.de (seller: Ddark) for 399 Euro incl. shipping and German sales tax, shipped from Poland to Sweden (= no customs fee as within the EU) and it was delivered in five days, much faster than announced.


As I've never assembled a 3D printer before, I needed approx 4-5 hours to do it, checking everything thoroughly during the build. There are some good "assembly videos" for this model on Youtube, which helped me as some of the detailed pictures in the manual wasn't that easy for me to see (a magnifier will help!). But I have to say, the installation manual is overall pretty good, actually much better than I expected, with easy steps-to-follow, pictures and detailed material/part dimensions etc.


Honestly, considering the price of this machine, I'm surprised by the quality of it! The drag chains and two brackets are made of plastic, the rest of the structure are metal parts. The fitting is perfect (except from the two small mounting holes on the drag chain, who are a tiny bit wider apart than the corresponding holes on the mounting bracket – but it is plastic and easy fixed) and the machine is stable and strong.
No parts were missing, on the contrary, there are many extra screws, nuts, springs etc. in the package. They even sent one extra micro switch as spare part. Everything is well packed and I haven't noticed any damaged parts whatsoever.
The cable assembly is very easy as well, then all connectors and cables are marked. Also the belt installation went smooth thanks to a good belt tying diagram in the manual.
Talking about the belt system – I was a bit afraid, as the belts are so long, that it would be imprecise and maybe wobbly, with bad printed object as a result. But, no need to worry, it runs smooth and exact.


For the moment I'm trying to "calibrate" the machine – to find the right nozzle and bed temperatures etc., to fit the different materials I'm planning to use – and I haven't really printed something "useful" yet, except a "phone camera stand" from PLA that, regarding print quality, actually came out very good (except from stringing), and that solely with the default "out of the box" settings.


According support for the printer, I don't know if Tronxy manages that part good or bad, so far I haven't bin in need to get in contact with them. I have joined a couple of FB groups where good information, tips and tricks about the X5SA can be found.


What I less like...
the bed – the surface is perishable and I've already scratched it when trying to take off printed objects. It seems to be thin layer of "teflon". Although, waiting until the bed has completely cooled down helps, then it's less tricky to get things off the bed, but who wants to wait? ;) As it is my first 3D printer, I don't know if this "problem" is specific for Tronxy, maybe it is common with most printers? I have ordered a Tronxy "Lattice Glass Plate" for 19 Euro from aliexpress, but I haven't got it yet. Lets see if it'll work better with that one.
And, fighting with the bed takes us to the next issue,
levelling the bed – as I have struggled to take things off of the bed, I accidentally have pushed the bed out of level... which means I have to level it again. It's not difficult to do it, not at all, as there's also this auto-bed-levelling function, but I find it annoying. Maybe it's only me being too rough?
The slicer software – it's an old version of Cura (so I've read) and I don't find it optimal to work with. Therefore I downloaded some other software I wanted to try out – Cura 4.5 and MatterControl but, sadly, none of them has any Tronxy printer in their list of printer profiles. Maybe it's possible to create a profile manually, that I don't know and I haven't had the time to check it out either.


To wrap things up, and considering I'm a total rookie and it is my first ever 3D printer,
do I regret my purchase of the X5SA PRO? No, not at all!
Would I recommend it to a rookie like myself? Yes! Building it was fun, I got more awareness of how it all works by doing it.
Is it the best 3D printer? I don't have a clue, but in my opinion it is a VERY nice and really good quality printer for the money!


/Björn

Thanks for the feedback :-)

amazing how often we never hear from people with 'what should I buy' threads.

Go print something useful :-)

You learn far more from a proper print than from any number of stupid torture tests or benchy's.

Here's a good one to start with: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3157890/comments
This is my current favourite thing to print :-)

The way he's got print in place strong working hinges in a 2mm card is just outstanding.

LET IT COOL BEFORE REMOVING !

with most prints you don't have to. with this being so thin, you need it cool and rigid before you start moving things around :-)
I'm now printing these in different colours - just because lol

Thanks for the replies.

Prusa Mini is not an option (at least for short delivery),
because next shipments will be at August (due to covid-19 as they say ...)

aardvark, can you please name some specific reasons why to avoid Creality?
I would like to know why I should drop any option.

I would like also in the future to have a multi material option,
so I can use water soluble PVA to create some "impossible" shapes.

Do you know if it is possible to add this feature in TronXY,
or I will need another printer?

Not to add confusion to the mix, but have you considered Artillery Sidewinder X1?
I find it to be a reliable printer so far. The only issue I have had with it so far is a clog due to wood filament (I should have upsized and not tried wood on a .4 nozzle)

He's already bought the tronxy :-)

The sidewinder has a few design issues - too much like a creality machine for my liking.
Also reviews are quite mixed. Usually more Indicative of manufacturing inconsistencies than any major issue witht he machines.

Anyway - yes there are several ways to add multi material capability.

You can go the prusa route and get a mumu: https://www.prusa3d.com/original-pru...-material-2-0/

This has an added advantage in that Autowhiz alreadu has one and you could pester him with lots of questions :-)

The other and slightly more expensive, but - in my opinion - much more elegant solution is the palette 2: https://www.mosaicmfg.com/

No. there is any confusion to suggest other printers than the 3 I have mentioned.
Me also I am seeing some other, like Geeeteck A30.

One issue of this printer you suggest, is manual bed leveling.
Otherwise it seems to be a good choice.

what's wrong with manual bed levelling ?
Takes 2 minutes and if you change he levelling nuts for nylock locking nuts you do it maybe once or twice a year.
Auto levelling can always be added if necessary.
But bear in mind that auto-level DOESN'T level the build plate.
All it does is record the inconsistencies. You still need to level it manually.

A quality built machine will not need the bed leveled after it has been leveled unless you physically abuse the build plate to knock it out of level. The btouch and auto level is an option that is nice to have but not required on a well designed and built printer.

After many hours of reading and watching videos, I have come to some conclusions:
(that seems to me to be right, but any objection will help)


1. Using Dual Head for dual filament printing, seems to be more "professional" than "many to one" head option.
It needs much less filament, can have different temperature for various types of filament, but it has 3 disadvantages:
A. Setting the same height for both heads can become a nightmare.
B. Dripping of non active head can destroy a whole printing,
specially if one of the filaments is water resolved.
C. Useful printing area is reduced in the axis that heads are positioned side by side.


So Dual Head option is rejected, and a 2 (or 3) to 1 head will be used.
Of course the "separate" mixing systems that "assemble" many filaments to one,
are an other option that can be used without any modification to a single filament printer.


2. The most "straightforward" system of printing seems to be (to mine understanding) the Delta system.
Plate is not moving at all, there are not any tooth belts, just 3 step motors to turn screw rods.
The only moving part is head and its holding rods, meaning high speed movement creates minimum shake.


The major drawback is their height, that it must be about double of the "useful" height.
And then the circular bed that must be big enough to be "equal" to a square bed printer.
Tevo Little Monster @ 720$ that can print on a 340mm diameter circle (about 240 X 240 square) and 500mm in height
And the machine height is about 1.2 meters ...
So this solution is out of my requirements, as I need a bad about 350X350 mm.


3. The 2nd solution that bed moving is not big issue is the one bed moves vertically.
Since this is done only on every layer change, construction shake is also minimal at high speeds.
The problem on the solutions provided, seems to the use of CoreXY system.
Very long tooth belts are used (equal to about the XY perimeter of the printer),
and the tension as also the proper alignment of the bar in which head is moving, are critical.


Bed vertical movement, is done by two screw bars at right and left of the bed,
an two pairs of cylindrical bars for guidance. It seems to have no problems.


4. Finally we have the -most used- moving bed solutions.
In those printing speed can't be high, because bed has a bigger mass than other solutions in their moving parts (plus the part itself),
in order to keep vibrations to a minimum.
But forgetting speed, if we have a stiff horizontal frame and another one for XZ plane, vibrations may be not an issue.


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So these are my conclusions about plus and minus of the 3 most used systems.
Selecting between CoreXY and Prusa ID3 types can't be a "clear" decision, without focusing on specific model details.
So I tried a comparison between these types, between two of the same company, TronXY
The X3SA of the Prusa ID3 moving bed type and the X5SA Pro of the CoreXY type.


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The moving bed solution is simple to assembly, as the moving bed is been assembled to main frame,
and the XZ plate is also assembled in a single piece.
So the final assembly is easy and there is not any need for trimming anything.
https://www.tronxy.com/x-series/tron...d-printer.html
Movement of the bed on Y axis is done on two thick guides that have adequate distance between them,
in order to assure strict movement on Y axis with out any jolt on X axis.
This is ensured by 3 rollers for each guide.
They have a significant distance between them (in each guide), in order to minimize the possibility of any movement on X, .
Movement is applied by a belt, and its tension can be regulated by a nut to the proper(?) elastic state.


Z axis movement is done on two vertical guides that are fixed by small plates to the main frame
and on top they have a connecting bar to keep them parallel between them.
Movement is applied by two screw rods, which are controlled by two motors, one for each rod.
The X axis bar is sliding to vertical bars by 3 rollers on each bar,
that have eccentric bases in order to permit fine tuning to ensure strict vertical movement.


Finally head is moving in X axis bar by tooth belt, and is held in bar by 3 rollers.
So movement is controlled by belts in X Y axis and screw rods in Z.
Rigidity of movement is depended on 5 sets of 3 rollers each.
Y axis movement is rigid enough, since roller distance on each set is a lot bigger than this of other axis.
This arrangement requires big space for the machine on Y axis, if someone has space restrictions.
Z axis movement is also rigid due to the screw rods,
and the rollers for the X axis are enough since head is a small part.


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The CoreXY solution is provided in totally DIY state.
https://www.tronxy.com/x-series/x5sa-pro.html
So there is a need for high skill on assembly procedures, as those of tuning.
Movement on 3 axis isa also done by belts in XY and screw rods on Z.


Bed is moving on Z axis, and its stability on X axis is been assured by two screw rods,
at right and left of X axis sides of bed, at the center distance of Y axis.
Y axis stability of bed is assured by 2 pairs of cylindrical rods and the bearings attached to bed frame.
It seems to have no problem, but since the two screw rods are not "connected" between them,
removing printed objects can move the bed frame and destroy leveling at X axis.
So every time a new print will start, leveling procedure must be repeated.
Fortunately this model provides an automatic leveling, so if the screw rods' positioning has been destroyed,
the system will bring back the bed leveling.


XY stability is depended on belts' tension, pulleys' stability, and rollers' proper positioning.
Belts' tension has to be tuned by the user on assembly, and there are not any nuts regulating tension.
So it is advised by some users to purchase fiber reinforced belts to keep their tension for longer period.
Also the rollers that are keep X bar parallel to X axis may be need some tuning (on the eccentric bases), in order to provide XY stability.
And the pulleys that keep belts in place, can have a little vertical movement that can create XY positioning problems.
A user that tested an X5SA, had terrible complaints for the print result, and it seems that he did not try to fix the printer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiJg7f9ib4M
But others who also had same problems, has fixed them getting very good results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq3qjdaRnuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN-2KeuzAKs
And one did some upgrades:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIz5-1uCqLg


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So my final conclusion is that a careful assembly with some upgrades on a CoreXY models can give very good results.
So the question is if am willing to proceed to improvements of to select a "ready to operate" solution.
The 400X400mm model of X5SA is a challenge, as it offers much bigger area for a good price ($550 vs $380 for 330X330 model)
To get a 400X400 ID3 model, Creality CR10-S4 400 is offered for $600, a very close price to Tronxy X5SA.

So I will continue searching reviews to find more "secrets" ...

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Very interesting is the capability to build huge moving bed solutions using custom design like this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albFKmWW4nA
I believe that CoreXY solutions can also be created.

Interesting.

Now as a person who owns all three systems: 2 deltas, 2 cartesian replicator clone dual extruders and a prusa style i3, there are some practical things you have wrong and a few you have not considered.

With a standard dual extruder system - replicator clones are the most common.
Yes they are slow, yes getting nozzles level can be a pita. But I have never had any issues with filament dripping.
Given that they are usually direct drive extruders, retractions work really well and quickly.
The biggest argument against a side by side dual extruder setup is the length of time and the extra material used by the purge walls.

As far as I3's and speed goes. They are actually the FASTEST of all three basic models.
On a proper i3 (NOT the creality abominations) the bed is supported on two side rails with smooth linear guides. So there is no vibrations, and because the extruder is also moving and the overall speed is a combination of the two - even at 300mm/s there is no obvious issues.
And that's as fast as simplify3d would let me print.

Deltas, deltas are great. They are also the most compact in terms of frame size for their print volume.
Height does NOT take up any desk space. and in fact my mini delta actually sits on top of my larger delta :-)
Maximising desk space in a way it's difficult to do with any other style of machine.
There are also less things to go wrong on a delta.
And if you use an extended flexible drive shaft, you can also fit one with a proper, very light weight, direct drive extruder.

My delta is currently my main workhorse. I have hopes for my cheaper than chips ctc (full prusa mechanics: side rails, direct drive, dual z-motors) if, I ever get a working combination of screen, board and firmware.
Tests proved it's significantly faster than the delta.
Why people insist on running I3's at such low speeds, is beyond me.
Like there's some weird kind of badge in spending three days printing something that should have taken a few hours.

Now one thing you have neglected is the best of all combinations - the IDEX printer.
Independant Dual Extruders.
These can be fitted to a corexy/cartesian style OR to an I3 setup.
Alas while I can envisage a possible way to fit a delta with two heads (not dual/multiple nozzles - seen that) I have no idea how you would create the relevant firmware and slicer.

Of the two machines you've decided on The tronxy is probably the best.
I just don't like what creality did to i3's and have no clue as to why they did it. Their design took a great and stable system and deliberately crippled and slowed it down. While saving about $10 a machine.
Illogical.

The latest x5sa pro seems to be a well made machine, couple of people round here who bought them have been impressed.

Thanks for the reply.

All my conclusions about what could be the plus and minus of various systems, were based on two things:
A. The reviews and complains I have found in youtube and other sources.
B. My view as an engineer, from the materials used and the Scientific laws that apply on the solutions I saw.
So for a moment I will "forget" what reviewers are saying
(I accept that many people do not have deep knowledge and their opinion can be wrong),
and I will stick on science.

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Bigger mass needs bigger force to accelerate at a required level.
And it is obvious that a printing bed with the required frame to support it,
is heavier than a hot end and the required bar to support X movement.
And we must not forget that during printing the bed is becoming heavier, as the printed object is being build up.

And since my requirements ask for a bed that is in "big" side of 3D printers that cost less than $1K
(and in this price I include any modifications needed),
the bed weight is increasing by square, and that of printed object by cube.
while hot end weight remains the same and only the X bar weight increases linearly.

For example moving to a 400X400X400 printer from a 200X200X200, means that bed weight is multiplied by 4.
And (maximum) printed object weight by 8.
(While X bar will have just double weight, and hot end is the same.)
That requires about 6 to 7 times bigger force to move the bed and the object.
So how this solution can be faster than those bed is not moving at all, or is moving a little vertically on layer change?
How those bigger forces will not create bigger vibrations?

I suppose that most of users print at low speeds (40~60mm/s) because printer manufacturers advice so.
And that's because cheaper printers have less rigidity.

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Purge walls are needed also for the many in to one out solutions.
Actually they need more waste than side by side dual heads.
Because multi filament heads on every change they mix a little the two filaments,
so a bigger quantity must be wasted.
Specially if one filament is a water soluble one ...

I will consider again dual head, because I found that there are dual heads in one body.
So probably the can be aligned with less effort.

INDEX is not an option for me, since I do not need most of what they can do,
and I do not see any such options within my budget.

Also I do not see any Delta option in the size I need.
Delta solutions are small if your prints have cylindrical shape.
If not, they are huge compared to XY printers.

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I still do not understand why you ... throw in garbage bin Creality printers.
Do you have any specific objections on why they should be selected?
Looking in many details the construction of Creality and Tronxy models,
I found that Creality has better quality both on the parts they use,
as also that of construction solutions.
Do I miss something?

Quote:

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I found that Creality has better quality both on the parts they use,
as also that of construction solutions.

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Yes you missed something.
You ignored the reasons I gave for why creality suck.

Weird as you claim to be an engineer :-)

Also creality have one of the worst reputations for build quality and customer support in the industry. They make I3's that have been crippled compared to the original design.
There is no logical reason - josef prusa's design is opensource, you don't get sued for copying it.

As far as moving a large mass around - you just need better belts, linear rails and more powerful stepper motors.
I admit I have bolted my printer to a fairly substantial aluminium sheet with rubber feet (frame was in 2 parts, so i made it one :-). So that probably helps somewhat with my particular machine
Also the acceleration settings will also help.

But basically a good i3 can and should be a very fast machine.


And until you've attempted to align dual side by side heads - you have no idea how tricky it can be :-)

Look into the mosaic palette 2.

Most reviews on youtube are done by people who are paid to review the machine.
Mostly they are 'paid' with the machine itself.
And that's one reason there are so many positive creality reviews - people don't want to kill the golden egg laying goose.

Even a 'bad' review will say things like: 'well it's got a few niggles, but on the whole its a decent machine.'
After all, who wants to upset someone who gives you free stuff ?

My other reasons are simpler still. Creallity leads the pack in the number of issues and problems people come here with.
We have significantly more posts about problems from creality owners than ALL other 3d printer manufacturers put together.

I mean, by all means ignore everything I say. My opinions are purely based on extensive experience with 5 assorted 3d printers and 6 years of dealing with issues on this forum as well as extensive study and research into 3d printing in general.
I just cannot be arsed to set up a youtube channel. I'd be up to my arse in free printers if I had, as it's the only question manufacturers ask when they contact you.
And I have been contacted a fair few times.

This past year I was a mentor for a FIRST robotics team at a private high school for underprivileged kids. They are in a new building that is less than a year old (one school year) and the 12 new Creality printers that were donated as part of the engineering lab have all failed, every single one. I know nothing about them other than what I read here and now the rack of non functional printers at the school. You get what you pay for when you buy a machine that must be mechanically and electrically accurate and reliable.

Thanks for the reply,
I think that there is a misunderstanding about quality.

There are 3 different areas about the quality of a product:

1. Quality of parts used for the product.
2. Quality of design, meaning solutions selected to implement the product
and required calculations to fulfill specifications.
3. Fabrication quality and "repeatability" of produced items
(how much identical to what was designed are produced items,
and how much identical are between them).

Looking at videos, pictures etc, can give an indication about 1 and 2A, but not to 2B and 3.
So this is a reason I have this conversation with you.
To hear your opinion about these matters.
Which in previous posts was not clear.

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So seeing all offered printers within some budget (that I can buy without problem in Greece),
I think that best solution is to by a smaller (and cheaper) one,
to see in action all these 3D printing issues I am reading or viewing in youtube, fora etc.
And then design one it will fit to my requirement, using the small one to print the plastic parts needed.

I know that this solution will become more expensive than buying at once a big printer,
but it is less "dangerous" to throw a lot of money.

So I see two "candidates" (both from Tronxy) the XY-2 Pro and the X5SA Pro.
It seems that XY-2 Pro is a more "safe" product (and with less money).
But X5SA Pro is of CoreXY type, that I think it's better for a bigger machine I am planning to construct.
Also it is using sliders for X and Y axes, that I think they are more precise than V slot rollers.
I think it is better to buy this type to see in action problems and possible solutions.

I am open to any suggestion or other proposal, based on the above consideration ...

I've never owned a 3d printer in the past, and I've never seen any 3d printer in person. I just bought the Tronxy X5SA Pro.Here's my thoughts...

Off the top of my head, and without any experience with the Creality, if someone were to ask me which they should get, especially as someone new to 3d printing, I'm going to suggest the Creality. The reasons are simple.

The Tronxy is a mess. It's a true DIY kit, but a bit worse. The instructions are terrible, you get all kinds of extra hardware. Not just additional hardware you need, but you get stuff that's not needed. You also end up missing hardware you need. I was missing washers and a L bracket.

The assembly is a mess, and you better have patience and a machinist's square. The reason I say it's a mess isn't because of the hardware. It's because it's hard as heck to get square and the parts... pulleys and such aren't to spec. I'm talking I had to adjust the rollers or whatever they're called just to fit the linear rail. There's no instructions on how to even adjust them. I was lucky to find one video as to how it was done.

The holes in the injection molded parts I had to drill though because they were clogged. some of the threaded holes weren't threaded properly, meaning I had to re-thread them. I'm lucky I had the tools because of tinkering with other stuff.

Now here's another problem.. it's in the actual printing. I've come to find out that it uses a Chitu board and the firmware is closed source. To send commands, you have to program some into the firmware. For example, if you set retracting using Cura, it means nothing because it's preset in the firmware. This mean you have to remember to send gcode to update the firmware first, if you want to change retraction. There's other things slicers can't do because of this.

There's also the lack of support. I'm not just talking about support from Tronxy, I'm talking community support. I'm guessing there isn't much support because these printers just aren't that popular. This means when you open up a Slicer like Cura or even Prusa Slicer, you can't pick the printer's profile. You have to either create your own or tweak something else. I'm using the Creality CR10 profile with tweaks. This means it's not going to be optimal. It's a royal pain because hunting this stuff down because there's a lack of community.

I can't say much from experience to the Creality, but I will say this, based on build videos and reviews, the Creality has it all over Tonxy. Not only does it show them being way easier to build, but their printers look to be pre-supported in available software and the firmware looks to be open source Marlin. Community support looks outstanding too. I can't google 3d printer without Creality popping up.

The Tronxy X5SA Pro might be a better build platform and in theory is a better printer, but in reality the Creality is going to be a better package out of the box with better support.

If I were to do it again, I would go with Creality, if I didn't, I'd probably get some other brand of printer. Tronxy's QC is just bad...

Regardless of price, there's no reason that a DIY kit should have such bad QC. Because if I hadn't had the tools, for example, to drill and re-thread stuff, I'd still be looking at parts on the floor...

BTW, once I got everything put together, it seems to print well... BUT it's a huge learning curve, not just in learning how to slice, but to figure out these little quirks of this printer. So far, I've come to find that the bed goes out of leave really easily because the prints stick like they're super glued. Yes, I do remove the print surface, to remove the print, but I'm pulling and twisting on it so hard to remove the print, I think it's warping the print surface. It's causing me to relevel manually every time. It's out of the .5 variance allowed with auto leveling. I'm hoping, eventually, I'll figure out an easier way to remove prints. For now, I've got a flex plat on order.

the xy-2 is simply an ender 3 clone.
My opinions on this should be clear - don't buy one :-)

However if you are looking at the x5sa pro - then in the same price range is the prusa mini.
smaller print volume but top of the range electronics and mechanics.
Worth considering.
From reports and looking at the specifications the NEW model of the tronxy x5sa pro is a decent machine.
The original model - not so much.
most plastic parts have been replaced with metal, the extuder and hot end has been upgraded - as has an awful lot of other things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

the xy-2 is simply an ender 3 clone.
My opinions on this should be clear - don't buy one :-)

However if you are looking at the x5sa pro - then in the same price range is the prusa mini.
smaller print volume but top of the range electronics and mechanics.
Worth considering.
From reports and looking at the specifications the NEW model of the tronxy x5sa pro is a decent machine.
The original model - not so much.
most plastic parts have been replaced with metal, the extuder and hot end has been upgraded - as has an awful lot of other things.

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I not sure what you mean but the original being no so much. From what I've learned, there's no difference between the original X5SA Pro that was released last year to the one that's currently being sold. I have a feeling you're comparing the "Pro" model to the non Pro model, which is still being made and sold by Tronxy.

With that said, what's on paper is just what it should be. The parts might be metal, but the QC is crap. I had threaded holes that weren't threaded properly. Parts that were pre-assembled and were told didn't need any adjustment (Because of this, there's no instructions on how to make the adjustment), had to be adjusted just to get it to fit. Missing hardware and just bags of unnecessary hardware. It's as if they just grabbed a handful of hardware and threw them in the bad. It's bad.

The Tronxy X5SA Pro isn't just a DIY kit. It's a DIY kit with some you better have an understanding of how to fix the parts we provide or you're not going to be able to put this together kind of kit.

This youtube video has been the most accurate representation on this kit I found. The best part is that I had slightly different issues, so your experience might vary depending on how put the parts in the box or built the individual parts for the package.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiJg7f9ib4M

Now what one doesn't know, especially when they're new to 3d printing in general, is the Chitu board they uses is closed.. This adds an additional layer of complexity to get printing, even after you've setup the hardware. Come on.. it won't even take many g code setting commands from the slicer. You have to update the firmware just to change them. A print that should have take 2h and 50mins took almost 5 hours because I didn't know I couldn't change some settings in the slicer. I now have to lean Chitu G Code to make things happen.

Yeah quality control on cheap printers is always going to be an issue.

When people say: 'here's two cheap machines, which one is best'.
We invariably try to encourage them to buy a more expensive machine.
As this rarely works the best we can do is to suggest machines that have better reviews round here.

I would also suggest that this is not a good time to buy a cheap machine from china.
Many factories have closed down or been running on light workforces.
So, yeah, quality control is going to be an issue for the forseeable future, and a lot of the printer supply companies are going to be using stuff they would probably usually send back or scrap.

I do apologise as this aspect of the current global situation has ONLY JUST occurred to me :-(

Sounds like you lucked out, so commiserations.

I have seen a lot of videos about X5SA Pro and various Creality models.

Many had problems with X5SA, but those who seemed to have more DIY experience
(or willing to solve them), corrected most of them, as also made simple improvements.
Most of them had to tight the rollers of rails, and there was not any direction in the manual.

The guy in the video link in crabjoe's post, did not make an effort to solve them.
(but is trying a lot harder when testing Creality models.
and if a print fails, the usual excuse is "the slicing was not good", "retraction setting was not proper", etc ...)

Both Creality and Tronxy are in Shenzhen, a city in the border of Hong Kong.
I don't know how much this area was affected by covid19, but the area is not of those that were hit hard.
But such problems are not unknown before the virus, as we can see in various older videos.

Personally I don't care if the printer will come in ... bits and pieces,
because as -I think- I said I am a senior engineer with 45+ years of experience,
in design of electronic systems, electromechanical, plastic parts for molding, and a lot of software.

Prusa mini is not an option, because the factory says deliveries for March orders are shifted at August due to virus.
And it could help in just printing, not testing and exploring CoreXY problems and capabilities.

In my understanding X5SA Pro is a very good relatively cheap base to experiment in CoreXY printing.

creality are very generous to youtube reviewers.
Also quite specific in what you have to do to get a free printer.

At the end of the day I don't blame the reviewers - we're all trying to earn a crust, just learn to be careful of reviews where the reviewer has been given the printer.

Build a HyperCube Evolution!

As a Creality owner, all I can say its not a "Ready to run" out of the box.....And I have had to email Creality without a reply. I found the answers here and other 3D forums are a awesome resource when needing help.

Creality = Experimental 3D printer in my experince.