Hoping some of you can recommend a 3d printer that can support a 15" tall, 12" wide, 10" thick build. I would like it be fast. I have no preference of consumables.
Any help with this selection would be appreciated.
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Hoping some of you can recommend a 3d printer that can support a 15" tall, 12" wide, 10" thick build. I would like it be fast. I have no preference of consumables.
Any help with this selection would be appreciated.
what is your budget ?
I would say 2k maxQuote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
Nice - some interesting machines in there.
Build volume rules out resin machines - anything nthat big will cost considerably more.
So we're immediately down to fdm.
What sort of things are you thinking about printing ?
Presumably as you have a size you've got something specific in mind ?
Looking to print special mannequin heads for a project.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
What printers that use fdm are the fastest?
the corexy design is easily the fastest of current fdm designs. And there are some big print volumes and decent machines around.
Speed is partly determined by the printer's mechanocs and partly by the actual print settings.
For example the same model that takes1 hour at 0.3mm layer height will take 3 hours at 0.1mm layer height.
The more shells you use the longer it takes and the more plastic you use.
The higher the infill - the longer it takes.
You can also use different diameter nozzles.
A 0.5mm nozzle is capable of almost the same level of detail as a 0.4mm nozzle.
But will print at 0.4mm layer height and will give you a thicker shell for fewer layers.
So something as simple as switching from 0.4mm to 0.5mm can ncrease printing speed by as much as 30% with little loss of quality.
Larger nozzles don't necessarily keep speeding things up.
The larger the bead the faster you need to cool it to avoid it deforming before it sets. So - machine dependant you actually print slower with larger nozzles.
The whole thing is a balance between how fast you can lay down a bead of molten plastic and how fast you can cool it.
what country are you in ? - so i know which amazon shop to look in :-)
Thanks for that info!Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
I am in California, USA
From all that I have read it sounds to me like you need a custom built 3d printer. Something hand made by someone of high skills to perform a specific task for you. The things that make a printer run fast do not come on store bought rigs. Marlin, Rep Rap Firmware(RRF), and all the custom firmwares out there are all second best to Klipper in the name of fast printing which requires a raspberry pi to run. The only way you will end up with that on your own is to buy a printer and start modding it. But also print speed at the end of the day is ultimately determined by how fast we can extrude and lay down that filament. So as we chase the high speed printing we need specialized extruders that won't skip on the filament or deform it before it feeds it into the hotend. And the hotend itself needs to have a larger melt zone in it to allow for the faster moving filament to have a chance to melt on its way to the nozzle. And then the controller. Can you believe a lot of the printers sold today are still running 8 bit control boards?! You will never print at a good speed with a machine that has an 8 bit brain that can think as fast and as much as 16mhz. That's like trying to get a brain damaged retard to stop drooling on himself and do your math test for you. Ya know? And 32 bit mainboards are all so very different from one another in terms of processing power. And that really matters as we chase actual print speed because the faster we hope to print directly translates into the faster the brain has to make more decisions. And then there is inertia. All of these printers are weak sauce and their frames so much less rigid that you would believe. And you will learn that as you try to ramp up speed on ANY printer. Because it is hard to stop a train and once we sling a carriage one direction at a certain speed inertia keeps that carriage moving a touch past the point where the stepper motor stops or goes the other direction. This inertia caused distortion in our print quality that is also identified as 'ringing' can be mitigated by correctly and thoughtfully bracing the frame and it's axes. By someone who actually knows how to do this I mean. It is for all these reasons that anybody in this hobby could only agree with that I suggest and extend my offer to you to build you a 3d printer custom tailored to your needs. I just need you to send me a whole lot of money and tell me more about what you would require out of your ideal 3d printer and we can get started ordering some parts and designing others.
Oh - now that's an interesting offer.
And, personally, having seen his work over the last few years - I'd take autowiz up on his offer.
With one caveat (lol)
He's a pretty liberal spender with his own money.
Lord knows what he's like with other peoples.
So just because he tells you that platimum coated linear rails with custom ground diamond bearings are the only way to go. Stick to your guns and just use conventional steel instead ;-)
But otherwise. hell yeah :-)
I'd still go corexy, as out of the four main fdm printer types - and I do own examples of all four: cartesian, delta, I3 and corexy. - corexy is hands down the best.
But unless you're in a hurry - it's a great idea !
AutoWiz sounds like a wild card when it comes to how much it will cost.Which one you likehttps://www.amazon.com/s?k=corexy&ref=nb_sb_noss_1Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
the x5sa PRO.
https://www.amazon.com/Printer-Struc...011088&sr=8-10
Upgraded linear rails from the non pro.
In fact a lot of other little, but significant upgrades as well.
Plus it's pretty much bang on your size requirements.
lol I suspect if you gave autowiz a fixed budget. He would stick to it rigidly.
You probably wouldn't get any change, but you would get the absolute best parts that could be got in that price range.
Built by a man who REALLY understands how 3d printers work :-)
I am a total newb, this will be my 1st stab at this. I figure I ask the pros on which printer to get. Not sure if I am ready for a custom build. Based on my experience in dealing with hardware I would assume I would be dealing with lots of little issue that could end up killing my time. I rather get something prebuilt that has a support staff in case I run into something.
I thought I was very clear in my quote for 'a whole lot of money', lol. But you did say $2k budget. And I can build that. I mean we will still have my labor to deal with over and above that but I could put 2k into a rig without breaking a sweat. I mean we could put a grand into rails, half that into an extruder and that same amount again into a good frame and thats 2k right there. I am a little over 3k into the Multi Widow. It is a good feeling owning and using a high dollar rig. In this crazy world where so many think their skills or wit can somehow trump a poorly made cloned part the actual reality is these printers are no better than the sum of their parts and a lot of people don't seem to understand that poor quality metals rust easier and faster and that rust pits the metal bearing surface. It's not always a matter of grinding on this or that the cheap stuff is all around cheap. Even with the very materials it is made from. And every company that manufacturers these printers does so with the absolutely lowest price parts they can source which both keeps the price down and also keeps them from seeing the reliability they need to break into the land of mainstream. To buy any off the shelf printer is to scrape the bottom of the barrel in the land of 3d printing just for this reason. And it is also why the best machines you will see are the ones built by enthusiasts like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by cf_pro
Sounds like I would be going over my budget of $2k and I am not sure if I would get support.Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoWiz
It's also great to finally hear an answer as to why these 3d printers have fallen short of mainstream, right? Why it is that they never became the new microwave oven in every home. Because microwaves are easy to use and reliable and do not have a record of setting homes on fire.
For a 3d printer to become mainstream it has to have the following features:- Fast- Select object from menu (dynamically updated via cloud) and hit print
Also add the ability to print in multi-color.Have useful items to print, the ability to scan in a SKU code, and it shows all the parts it can print for replacement. Also have the ability to print things you can use around the house.It should be able to print metal and plastic.Let's say you want to print a roomba, it should print all the parts, and then it automatically orders things that cant be printed and then it prints out directions of how to put all the pieces together.
Spoken like a true enthusiast. On your way into this hobby you should spend some time considering and then understanding why all of these printers come unassembled. If the printer came ready to print and you just opened the box and started printing the expectations of quality would be as such that there would be an absolutely huge return/warranty rate. But to sell and ship them completely unassembled creates a plausible deniability where the manufacturer can first argue that you put it together wrong but then can argue that you opened everything and manipulated all the pieces and parts helping greatly with denying a return. So many people in this world just don't get this simple truth. But it is most certainly the truth. The printers that come ready to run and require little or no setup are generally expensive because they know their stuff has to work. So like the Prusa Mini that is just 3 pieces to assemble will be a good machine. But it is expensive for it's build envelope. And you might be on a waiting list to get it as that printer seems to be a favorite of the printer farms.Quote:
Originally Posted by cf_pro
there are an increasing number of ready built plug-n-play printers around.
Some actually do what they say they do.
The original makerbot replicator, pretty much nailed it 8 years ago. That's why it's still one of the most copied designs on the internet.
Take it out the box, attach the extruder assembly with 2 bolts, attach filament holders and you're ready to go.
The current crop have improved a lot of things, but the basic makerbot design is still the same.
I made a lidless box/container on my sapphire pro2 last night.
Printed it at a true 150mm/s (well that's what it said everytime I looked) and 0.3mm layer height.
Unless you knew it was 3d printed, I very much doubt anyone would guess.
Damn thing looks and feels like quality injection moulding. Blew me away.
And that's a £300 printer.
The frame is built like a german tank. The top plate is a solid sheet of 6mm aluminium, the base is 2.5mm sheet steel.
The linear rails are quality and the bed and extruder heat up simultaneously and hit 65c plate and 200c printhead in just under 2 and a half minutes.
Oh and it's virtually silent in operation.
Weirdly the thing that makes the most noise is the filament coming off the reel. I could probably design a quieter spool holder by using a bearing on the holder shaft. But, hell the filament noise is the only way I can tell it's running, without actually looking at it.
If the manufacturers use decent parts and design the machine properly (so NOT creality lol) there is absolutely no reason a cheap to buy machine can't beat the crap out of a really expensive machine.
I still haven't seen your working 40mm iris box, printed at 150mm/s auto wiz ;-)
I showed you mine :-)
The only reason I haven't been pushing the sapphire pro2 is that it's build volume is 230x230x220.
Big enough for just about anything I make, but not 300x300x400 that's becoming the new standard for the mid-range machines.
And I was thinking $2k with labour lol
LOL, I was just responding to your microwave question... this is what it would take for mainstream adoption.Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoWiz
It is important for us to put our thoughts and ideas into this hobby. It is the only way it will grow into what you have envisioned. Because Lord knows as it stands you really gotta look in any town for the home(s) with a 3d printer in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by cf_pro
I currently have a business in mind that could use a 3d printer, but for everyday use, this industry has to evolve a lot.
Actually the printer side of things is about 90% there.
You CAN buy an off the shelf printer that does not rewuire any assembling, and you can get them pretty cheap and they are near enough plug and play.
That's NOT what's holding up having a 3d printer in every home.
The simple truth is that no matter how easy to use a printer gets - you STILL need to be able to use cad software and design the things you want to print.
It's the 3d scanning side of things, that is really holding things back.
There have been a couple of attempts to make 3d photocopiers,
xyz made one - that by all accounts was atrocious and a company called AIO made the ZEUS scanner/printer/copier. Which - while not perfect could actually do 3d photocopying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik3SwIDlYPA
I've heard nothing in recent years and the whole 3d photocopy system seems to have died a temporary death.
Also for every home to want a printer, the big hardware manufacturers need to wise up and start using virtual part stores.
I mean you can store all your speare parts on a server and do away with warehouses and manufacturing chains. You'd actually end up with a server and customers not only paying you to download the file, but also paying for their own plastic to manufacturer the parts.
On a side note, while this guy is talking complete and total bollocks about fdm print speeds, this lightweight extruder looks really interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IJaD15UQU0
But to sum up, in order to get a microwave style 3d printer, you need idiot proof 3d scanning and a whole new manufacturing infrastrusture and change of approach to spare parts.
The printer technology is there, it just needs everything else to catch up with it.
It comes down to incentives, what incentive do manufacturers have to create 3d importable parts so you can print them at home VS people having to buy your parts. Also when people can print parts that are broken then there is no incentive to buy an entire new replacement unit. So from a manufacturer profitability perspective it makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
Now for a new competitor entering the market it could be used as marketing tool, if stuff breaks, go to our site and download the 3d model so you can print it yourself. Better yet if you have the 3d printer of microwaves, we have every part that can be printed on that system for you to print.
well that's about as incorrect a statement as you could have typed.Quote:
So from a manufacturer profitability perspective it makes no sense.
NO warehousing costs, NO manufacturing costs, NO distribution costs.
The 'warehouse' is virtual and takes up a physical space about a cm on a side and 2mm thick.
Not only NO costs to you, but the client who wants the part will pay you to download the file - and with the right digital encryption, you can even decide how many times they can use the file.
The client will even pay for the material to print the virtual part.
And if you're smart you'll colour the parts so that you can even sell them the material to print the viretual part you've just sold to them.
So to sum it up.
A single small setup cost to establish your virtual 'warehouse'. practically no ongoing costs, and the person who wants the part not only pays you for a virtual part but also pays for the materials it's made of.
It's a business wetdream.
I like what you are saying, and I was thinking of the current brands and their current business models, but they need to rethink their model if they want to survive. I believe open source is the ticket, however who is going to pay for the engineer costs? I am thinking open source with a crypto coin or a decentralized autonomous organization to pay for the research/development.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
I object to my printer hardware, I have an Ender 3 and its been turned out great yet when I went to utilize it today it wasn't working. I resembles the wheel on the extruder is turning and when I begin printing it pushes fiber out, however then it goes over this harsh spot and afterwards quit pushing fiber out, yet the wheel is as yet turning with no fiber is coming out. I'm really new to 3D printing so any assistance would be extraordinary.
lol I object to it too :-)Quote:
I object to my printer, I have an Ender 3
Sounds like you have a gap between the ptfe feed tube and the top of the brass nozzle on the hotend.
This causes the machine to start exrtruding and a pool of molten plastic graducally builds up in the gap and the filament stops extruding.
It can be as simple a fix as pushing the bowden tube a mlot harder into the hotend.
Or as awkward as dismantling the hotend, cleaneing it out and making very sure the tube reaches the the top of the nozzle.
It could be a bunch of other things - but the bowden tube into the hotend is the first place to start.
I am lost at this list. First off the X5SA's all come with a single drive titan extruder clone. And who's using a v6 in 2021? We are spending our cheese on the Hemera, or the LGX, or the H2. We upgrade the bed heater Away from the 24v and to 120v Mains Power(I run a 1000watt 450x450mm under my 500x500 bed, for example). And who in their right mind would set off on a large dollar amount and time intensive upgrade path for such a small build envelope? The X5SA 500 PRO is way down on price and so little more that in the scheme of the total amount it is nothing. But that 500x500x600 build envelope is the biggest form factor you can buy in that price range without just building your own from scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_au
And just between us, a lot of folk think putting these things together is pretty easy, and a lot of these printers come unassembled. And maybe that has something to do with the overall reputation they all get. Do you think? Or have you never seen the rat's nests that people hang all over their robots with the 3 moving axes? Just building these machines is a skill. Sadly most are so anxious to see their purchase return that first print they hurry through every step. A few of us treat building them like building an old school model. Nice and slow. Letting it go at it's own pace and just making sure each thing we do or touch is right and correct before going on to the next.
And no where on your list is a labor allowance. I swear. We gotta teach you how to write a proper estimate. There needs to be a markup on the parts. 20% is the standard in most industries for parts acquisition.
I am honestly at a loss for how to bill to build a printer for someone else. Even in a proposal. If it were a car I would setup a bank account and have the owner put 5k or 10k in it and when the funds got low from my time and parts I would notify the owner to make another deposit. Because there is no way to accurately quote labor on a big project up front. And when asked up front "how much?" the professional response is always "It will cost time and materials". I obviously wouldn't get far with that here. And I take a lot of time and spend a lot of funds building a printer. I just don't know how to resolve that in a way that would see me spending time building printers for people. No matter how much fun I would have with it.
And about the LGX, you should go look at this: https://www.bondtech.se/product/bond...ff-print-head/ . The LGX is Bondtech's direct answer to the Hemera. Why wouldn't Bondtech make a low profile heatsink for it? They wouldn't be competitive if they didn't. That is the standard of the new generation. HOWEVER, I am with you on the volcano thing just not the volcano. I am lately all about bigger printers and printing bigger things and so my next nozzle is to be a 0.8mm and I will print at 0.4-0.6mm layer heights. I will push a lot of filament through the extruder fast and so I am thinking about a Slice Engineering Mosquito Magnum hotend with vanadium 0.8mm nozzle. And that will bolt up to the LGX.
But I also have a Bondtech BMG-M extruder with a Slice Engineering Mosquito hotend and I really like the way that attaches the two. It mounts them in a way that makes nozzle changes a one handed affair. So IDK and I am still undecided about what extruder setup I will go with on my 500 PRO.
lol. I deserve that. Well just for fun this what I am building for myself currently:
TronXY X5SA 500 PRO (500x500x600mm) ---------------- $900
SKR PRO mainboard ------------------------------------------- $ 45
tft70 v3.0 dual mode 7" touchscreen ----------------------- $ 75
TMC2226 drivers ----------------------------------------------- $ 60
1000watt silicone mains powered bed heater ------------- $180
High quality SSR ----------------------------------------------- $ 50
External Mosfet for extruder --------------------------------- $ 25
Meanwell HRP-450-24v 1U power supply ------------------ $150
18ft of gates reinforced gt2 belt ----------------------------- $ 70
frame hardware ------------------------------------------------ $120
Five 2.2lb spools yellow PETG filament -------------------- $125
Bondtech BMG extruder -------------------------------------- $80
Gates toothed idler pulleys ---------------------------------- $ 40
Electrical (wires, pigtails, and connectors ----------------- $200
510x510x4mm carbon silicone glass Ultrabase ----------- $100
Genuine Capricorn XS series tubing ------------------------ $20
Labor from the AutoWiz -------------------------------------- Priceless
That's where I am at with it so far. My jaw is still on the floor at the thought of wiring for $29. Personally I go hunt down all the correct mini JST or whatever the correct connectors are to be using so I have both a finished look and a stable electrical system. For the stepper motors I get sets of long pigtails so I don't have to splice in extra lengths. And I will get a ribbon kit so I can build custom length ribbons for the lcd12864 mode of the tft70. And small assortment of different gauge wire and in a small assortment of colors.
But I mean you see it right? How correct the right pigtails with matched wires leading away from the controller in a sensible way looks? It took a while and cost a chunk to get it all wired in this manner. But the end result is rewarding to look at..
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/agW5it.jpg
TronXY hotend. TronXY extruder motor. TronXY bed hardware along with some printed parts I drew up.. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/FA25oT.jpgAnd I am not saying those are better. Just that I am using them until I figure out what I want to go with. The extruder motor is gonna be the same 1.8 degree 200 step/rev stuff that comes on most printers. I will get some 0.9 degree motors at some point as I have with all my other machines. So you are right about that. I just am not there yet on this build and that is what I was listing for a build price.
I listed a price to buy parts to build an awesome machine to the specs the OP requested in his OP.
Micro motion and fretting within connectors on electrical things with moving components is a thing. On the moving components it is all the more important to properly fix the electrical just so it is not gonna succumb to the connections breaking down internally. And a well built printer doesn't need to be worked on regularly. That is why we build the printer right. So it can achieve stability and allow us to focus on using the tool to do it's intended job without all the back sass.
But wait, If you find yourself changing a non wearable part like a thermistor cable doesn't that imply a poor design at play? Or poor assembly of the wires within the cable chain or w/e caused the chaffing that would lead you to change such a component? Your point is solid I am just saying a well built machine shouldn't need wires changed. Ever. Because it was well built. And even the cheap fans with the sleeve bearings have generally 20k-30k hr. life expectancy. If we go with ball bearing that number doubles. Wearable parts need to be easily accessible sure. But the parts you are listing should last the life of the printer. Or most of it at any rate.
And also about the service life of a fan in a well built rig one of the things I like to do is wire my fans into the extruder heater #2 port on my mainboards and set them in the firmware to turn on only when the extruder temp is above 50c. I wire all the frame fans to this along with the extruder. This way when the printer just sits at idle not only is it silent and drawing less power but it is also not in the process of wearing itself out just at idle. The fans can come on as the printer heats up and gets ready to start working. And shut off as it cools.
Well not labeled on the board anyways. But we go in and change pin assignments in Marlin and we can drive more fans if we like. second extruder heater would be the first thought because it can handle the greatest amount of load out of all the other pins on the board you might assign, but that is no big thing. Hell I had to do this to a SKR 1.4 Turbo on my Geeetech i3 rework. I plugged the layer fan in backwards and it burnt the driver in the mainboard. But the rest of the board is fine and dandy. That 24v printer has a 12v noctua fan for the extruder powered via a lm2596 step down converter and so e2 heater was open and I assigned the layer fan to extruder heater 2 and my hurt SKR 1.4 Turbo has been printing like a dream for some time now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_au
Can you please explain your last 2 posts together?Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_au
I don't know you from a hole in the wall and so I made no assumptions. I just found it odd that you would say you wish there were more fan pins on a mainboard and then in the same breathe say re assigning mainboard pins with firmware is basic and commonplace. And so I asked instead of assuming.