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I just read Stans latest blog and if you follow stan 3dprinterchat.com you would see his other copyright and gun posts. Anyways should we worry about law enforced firmware control systems in our 3d printers?
https://3dprinterchat.com/2016/07/3d...or-gun-makers/
well it's a long running thing.
all iin one printers have had software on them for years that stops you photocopying money.
I know this because my test for a newly instelled printer at a clients used to be copying a £20 note.
Then one day a few years back It wouldn't do it. You just get crap come out. Everything else works fine, but on modern printers you just can't photocopy money anymore.
Plus with plastic printers you can always change the firmware to an older one.
Basically it's the same argument - nobody in the uk can print firearms without incurring the wrath of the men in black anyway.
And in the us you get real guns free i crackerjack boxes. So why worry :-)
Plus anything built into firmware can only be a database of parts they know about. design your own and it won't be in the database - so won't be effected.
Exaggerating the issue doesn't help you know. I had to pay several hundred dollars and pass a background check for mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
Besides, 3d printed guns are no more dangerous than any other gun, except maybe to the user, and if you intend to build one durable enough to do any real damage you will need metal components and they are then just as easy to detect as any other firearm.
All that said, as with the printers and money, it doesn't affect anyone day to day so I don't really see the issue. Plus, we as makers would just build our own printer with our own firmware and circumvent it anyways. There's no way at all to enforce this.
It's Commiefornia. They spend millions creating and enforcing worthless laws that the rest of the world wouldn't ever waste their time with, and then wonder why their economy is shot. The rest of the country rarely worries about or cares what laws they pass, and they are a running joke with everyone from grade school on up.
Is that rednecks only or all citizens? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ama-fessional Molder
Buying a gun at a gun fairQuote:
Exaggerating the issue doesn't help you know. I had to pay several hundred dollars and pass a background check for mine.
background check person: 'say son do you want a gun ?'
you: 'yes i do.'
background check person: 'are you a terrorist and do you have a driving licence ?'
you: 'no and yes.'
background check person: ' good enough for me, what gun do you want ?'
Given the form you used to have to fill out when entering the states - that's not as daft as it sounds.
There was ALWAYS a question asking if you were a terrorist.
Stupid people used to tick yes for a laugh.
18 hours and 3 body cavity searches and a little humourous water boarding later - they weren't laughing any more. Customs officers have no sense of humour.
So did you have to buy a LOT of crackerjacks and save up coupons then ?
I didn't realize that the background check was just lying on a piece of paper and didn't have anything to do with actually calling a specific organization and checking criminal history, which is a thing that happens. It takes about 20 minutes to go through the whole process over the phone as a gun dealer.
And most people selling a used gun will do a basic online check to verify that someone is not a felon. Not to say that you can't just sell a gun to anyone, but it's a 5 year minimum sentence if you get caught so people tend to cover their asses.
You see, we don't believe in restricting anyone's rights BEFORE they commit a crime, so if the background check is clear, then why should they be stopped from buying something?
But I am sure you know all of this from firsthand experience and not just what you've read online.
EDIT: For minimum sentence accuracy.
I can confirm this, they still use microdotting in photocopiers to trace bank note copying. The machines I work on use the yellow toner to spray practically invisible microdot serial number identification. Anywhere there is white, if you get a microscope you can see the yellow microdots. This is how they track which machine copied the bank note. Considering 99.9 percent of photocopiers are under a management agreement, tracking them down is pretty easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
This is so important. More countries should adopt this approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ama-fessional Molder
well it's not why they are stopped - it's what they are stopped buying that's the issue.
Gun's don't kill people people WITH guns kill people.
I just prefer the uk approach. Have an actual reason for owning a gun.
The reason for owning anything at all should be "because I want to".
Because freedom. Everyone should be free to do as they please so long as it does not harm anyone or infringe upon their rights.
Some people claim that they have a right to be safe, therefore other people around them shouldn't have guns. The problem with that is me owning a gun doesn't make my neighbors unsafe. Me carrying a gun in public doesn't reduce anyone's safety - as long as it sits in its holster. The part that is unsafe about carrying is already illegal. You can't just pull it out and start waving it around.
There's hundreds of pages of firearms laws already. Actions should be illegal, not objects.
Best. Post. Ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ama-fessional Molder
that's right: so trying to establish who will perform the illegal actions and stopping them getting the objects that will help them - is a good idea :-)
It's called positive discrimination and it should be used a lot more.
In the uk we're so bloody liberally backwards we refuse to use positive discrimination.
Which leads to the situation we had last week at dover.
Instead of just checking swarthy looking nervous folk boarding the ferry from france to the uk - which is logical and positive discrimination.
They instead stopped and checked every single vehicle going from the uk to france.
Leading to 18 hour delays for people going on holiday.
That's 18 hours stuck in the middle of a bloody motorway with no facilities.
Given that getting hold of firearms and explosives on the continent is an absolute doddle now there are no border checks or controls and given that getting hold of same in the uk is extremely bloody difficult.
And also given that cars full of mixed age british families and all their luggage are around 99.999999999% less likely to be terrorists than a car with a single or couple of asian blokes in who look a bit nervous.
The situation was just ludicrous.
What is the point of criminal/terrorist profiling if the information recieved from the profiling is just going to be totally ignored in the face of bureacratic and officious political correctness.
It's the same nonsense that means everyone boarding a plane has to be checked down to the composition of their fillings, instead of just the ones more likely to cause problems.
The annoying thing (what just the one ?) is that the millions of pounds has been spent on profiling and intelligence on who is likely to do what - is just ignored in the desire to show the world we're not racists, religionists and biased.
When By rights using the available profiles and intelligence does not mean you're being racist, just sensible.
And that's thursday's rant :-)
That's why felons aren't allowed to buy and own guns, or people with diagnosed mental health problems, or histories of violence. How exactly do you intend to stop someone who has no negative history? And even if you do, how do you intend to prevent them from getting a firearm illegally?Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
You can stop them from buying them from legal sellers, but you wont stop them from getting illegal guns.
I understand the whole "well just get rid of all the guns and problem solved" but then you are punishing everyone who's never done anything wrong, and that will probably never happen in this country.
And it's been proven time and time again that you don't need guns to kill a BUNCH of people. In china, at least twice now, there have been mass stabbings that make 95% of our "mass shootings" look like accidental discharges. And by the way, what they (the reddit users who started this tracker that the media is using) call a mass "killings" these days in the US is 4 or more *injuries*during an attack, regardless of what weapon was used, including the attacker. You don't even need to get shot. You could trip over a curb running away and break your neck and you will be counted towards that number. That's why it "looks" like we have almost 400 mass shootings a year but in reality most of those are gang violence, and a fair amount of them are self defense cases - a couple armed people break into a house, shoot the homeowner, homeowner shoots back, the kid falls down the stairs, and somehow that counts as a "mass killing" even though everyone survived. There doesn't even have to be a gun involved, and in one case a bunch of kids were messing around shooting each other with pellet guns (still super dangerous) and their tracker counted that incident.
Now, the former LEGAL definition of that is 4 or more deaths NOT including the perpetrator.
So now they are applying any assault that injures 4 or more people to these statistics of "mass shootings", because they are tracking these attacks as "mass killings", and defining them as "mass injuries", and the media just rolls with the old word for it because sensationalism.
you do know that buying guns at gun fairs - gets round all the checks ?
All you need is a driving licence.
Might not be all states.
Aardvark, please go to a fair and try to buy a gun with no background check, and tell me how that works out.
As I have said, most of those people are not stupid enough to not do a basic check, and a great deal of them are dealers who would lose their licenses.
And by the way, it's still illegal to sell a gun to a felon, no matter where it came from. You can't really make it MORE illegal.
This is true for all private sales. Not just at gun shows. Regular citizens are allowed to sell a firearm as long as they have no knowledge or reasonable suspicion that the potential buyer is not allowed to legally purchase a firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
In gun shows, the majority of people who are selling are licensed firearm dealers. The procedure for them to sell at a gun show is no different than they way they sell in their store front. This includes a background check. Which is more than a questionnaire, as previously mentioned. They are legally obligated to ask for ID, fill out the proper paperwork, and call a national database for approval before the transaction can be completed.
While some state laws may require more steps, this is in the minimum that applies to all 50 states here.
Every private sale I have ever witnessed or in some way been involved in, we did a quick circuit court lookup to see if anyone had a criminal history. It's public information.
Most of us don't want our hands, names, or fingerprints anywhere near a gun that might be used for a crime, so we don't sell to shady ass people, and I've never met a gun store sales person or owner who wont straight up deny someone just for saying the wrong thing or even looking suspicious.
Actual background checks are done by computer and fact checked. You'd need a false ID to get past one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ama-fessional Molder
Private sellers don't have to do any background check at all--which is referred to as the "gun show loophole" since gunshows are full of private sellers.
First the questions ask in various, multiple forms whether or not you have associated with terrorist (et al.) organizations, giving a normal person reason to wonder what kind of idiot terrorist would say yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
BUT remember that in the US, the constitution technically protects your right to associate with whomever you choose. By asking this question, and the applicant lying about the answer, the perjury laws now provide grounds for action. When the application is signed, you are acknowledging these perjury restrictions and they can be very severe.
Graham
Well, the person doing it uses a computer, but they can and often are called in. Not every shop does it over the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by djprinter
And yes, we are aware of that. But "full" of private sellers isn't exactly accurate. A great deal of them are dealers.
Well said... and the USA is at least as ridiculous, if not more so.Quote:
Originally Posted by curious aardvark
In the end people are most important but the objects we create and use are a big part of our culture, and help to give rise to our behavior and actions.
They invite certain actions and inhibit others, like a speed bump invites slower driving inherently because that's more enjoyable.
I find life much more enjoyable when I can trust that weapons are used only by trained professionals in extreme cases. In the same way that I only want a certified doctor doing the stitches when I have hurt myself. So I am all for reducing the chance that weapons fall in the hands of just anyone. I see positive discrimination as a normal and healthy way of social control. Of course you could always buy a 3D printer and find 3D models to print weapons, though if the most trusted brands include chips that prevent printing of certain models, or can recognize what type of part you are printing, we are creating a healthy and sane environment..
I would say that there are 10 times more private sellers than dealers. At a gun show there are hundreds of people walking around with guns they mean to sell or trade--usually to a dealer, but you can just walk up to one of them and offer them a good price and the gun is yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ama-fessional Molder