Printing ABS white with 110° bed with raft and getting warped bottoms. I'd like to go raftless if possible too. Suggestions?
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Printing ABS white with 110° bed with raft and getting warped bottoms. I'd like to go raftless if possible too. Suggestions?
Hello There...
There are way to many theories about how to stop the corners warping. And in the four months of solid printing 3d, I've only come across one that works. Use a raft.
I too use 110C as the bed temp, and on nearly all my smaller prints, I have pretty much zero warp. I do use kapton tape on a glass bed. But for large long prints, I often use a raft.
Consider using good quality filament, as I do believe that helps.
Cheers..!!!
Sometimes 110c is too hot! drop it to 105c and see how you go, also you could be printing too hot - drop the nozzle temp a little too. If you print too hot, when it cools to 110c its warping because like anything that's hot that cools down, it shrinks - the idea is to find the balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ixlr8
Checkout these pictures - kapton tape, stock hotbed.
All I can say is level that hotbed, and when you have done that - Do it again! trust me.
First picture - I can print full size 450 quadcotper arms, edge to edge without raft - and no warp at all. I CANNOT do this on a glass heated platform, I just cant.
I print these at 105c hotbed and 225c nozzle, if it was white 108c and 228c nozzle.
http://www.devogeninteractive.com/pi...D_532F7E73&jpg
An the second example - a 5mm thin hollow wall with 200 divets in it (I made beado trays for my kids) Printed 15cm high, no warping - no curling.
http://www.devogeninteractive.com/pi...F_532F7F0A&jpg
Warping problems, been there done that - solved it.
Thanks MrWayne and Geoff,
I'm going to try some different settings like you suggested. I understand the white ABS is a tricky beast anyway?
Is everyone using 1.75mm for the stock filament thickness? Just curious.
I'm using 230 extruder temp normally for white ABS - forgot to add that above. Stock bed with kapton.
If a corner is warping, and then you turn the model and print it in a different direction, does it still warp in the same corner? technically it should, which would be a slightly unlevel hotbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ixlr8
I just had a big argument with flashforge in the phillipines (only know them through facebook) I saw a print on their page that was really warped, and I said that's probably not a good example print to show, so they go and post all my good prints in their page - thats cool, no worries. Then the guy from philipines flashforge goes on to tell me to fix my warping problem I need a glass hotbed. So I said, #1 I dont agree, Ive tried and it's not as effective in transferring heat evenly as aluminium, look at my prints buddy I said, do I have any friggin warping issues? im trying to help you, but being the company of course they know best... but then I said #2 if you think its so much better,then sell your damn machines with them! pyrex isnt expensive, if they can sell a bong made of pyrex for $20, they can make a 22cmx15cm sheet even cheaper.
I can also offer another suggestion, this is how I level my hotbed:
I use a standard A4 piece of paper, full size.
1. Do the standard levelling in the menu first, tighten the screws 4-5 turns each and level it like you normally would.
2. Run the levelling script again, BUT BEFORE you run it, put the A4 sheet on the hot bed, and DON'T tighten the screws this time.
3. The bed will start the levelling script - and with any luck that a4 paper will get squished in between the bed and the nozzle and you wont be able to move it. I say that's good because you want to be on the tighter side, not the looser side of things.
Now, adjust the thumbscrews when you are asked to in the right order, but all the while keeping the paper on the hotbed. Jiggle the A4 sheet till it moves a touch and its just got some friction, then move on to the next area to level.
The idea is, instead of trying to slide it under the nozzle each time to test it, its already there - making it a much faster levelling process. I often repeat this 2-3 times if I am printing a very large part, say, like a predator mask..
http://www.devogeninteractive.com/pi...C_532F8DE7&jpg
All plastic, be it PLA or ABS can be a bit funny, after a couple of years now and the amount that I have ordered, I think I've been though most of the quirks they have, i'll try and run down in brief.
The country of manufacture makes a big difference, avoid India (#1, avoid india.. their plastic is awful. Full of particles and debris, thats why its dirt cheap.)
Colours make a big difference also, I find as a rule the brighter the colour, the less the filament needs to melt. I start at 222c and test print until its printing "dry" i.e without any goop being left behind or spiderwebs when the nozzle moves.
geoff i agree. my printer came standard with glass. i used it awhile and its ok but i took some temp readings all over the plate and the temps varied about 20 deg or more. i got a 1/4" thick piece of mic6 aluminum. i took some temp readings and there is only a 2 deg variance from any point. aluminum is def better for that. i dont really use kapton though. i glass beaded one side of the mic6 then use hairspray. works well with abs. the kapton works great too but with the plate treated i dont have to mess with the tape. i still get a little curl with either one of them but its not too bad. your not really going to stop mother nature completely.
Is there any reason to adjust the filament thickness in the gcode? (Other than the obvious)
Also I read that people are printing ABS and PLA with only 60° beds? How are they getting away with that?
Yes, as filament has a variance. I personally set mine to 1.80mm as I found setting it to 1.78 gave me alot of clicking and filament slipping problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by ixlr8
What does this parameter actually change? Is feedrate and tool speed affected by this variable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff
I really have no idea to be perfectly honest. Like yourself, no manuals anywhere or troubleshooting guides so just trial and error when I came into problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by ixlr8
I bought a reel of Crystal Clear ABS (I think called "High Impact Crystal Clear") Essentially tho, it looks like all the other clear ABS. .. nothing special. However, when I went to use it it would click click click click, and the thing would not feed... tried all the temperature setting sunder the sun, and nothing helped, nothing.
So started playing around with other settings, and eventually after changing the filament diamenter from 1.75 to 1.8 in replicatorG, all my problems went away with that filament. It now feeds perfectly. Having pulled these apart now into complete bits, there is no way that it affects the actual diameter - so all I can think if is it does something to the feeder gear - but that's what controls the resoution, so Im still a bit hazy on it. You have a 0.4mm nozzle on the machine, so printing at 0.2mm seems to just slow the feed as well, how it makes it thinner I really don't know to be honest. All I know is the second I changed it to 1.8mm diameter in the settings, the thing printed like a dream.
yes you really need to measure every roll of filament in a few spots and take an average. this value must really be changed with every roll. your slicer will use this to mathematically figure out how much plastic needs to be extruded. if you have it set to say 1.75 but you filament is actually 1.78 then your printer will be extruding more plastic than it thinks it is. you end up with parts that are out of tolerance or too much plastic being pushed around on each layer which can cause the nozzle to drag, hit your part or just sloppy top surfaces and walls. its very similar to just turning your extrusion multiplier way up or down.
I leave mine set at 1.8, after nearly 2 years of trial and error I find with this particular machine it's a pretty safe bet. I also live in a humid environment where filament can tend to swell.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimc
I dont measure my filament anymore, I go through that much unless it's giving me issues I just don't bother really. Nozzle drag shouldn't be happening anyway if they are levelled and the other hotend isnt actually in use, and if it use you can use dribble supports.
This is my experience:
I have a FF Creator Pro with the bed surface as provided by the manufacturer.
I used ABS filament that came with the printer.
The platform was leveled.
Platform temp 110, Extruder temp 230, printed with a raft.
While printing a hypercube abour 45 cm wide, at about 5 minutes in, the front left corner began to lift.
Next, I re-leveled the platform. After about 30 minutes the front left corner began to lift, but only slightly. Less lift.
TO continue, I repeated the same print with PLA instead of ABS. This is a Hatchback product. Same temps.
This time, about 40 minutes in, the print head began printing about 1 cm above the the half-finished print.
I have absolutely no idea what is going on!
A couple observations.
1st: I wouldn't use a raft unless it is a part that requires it such as very limited contact with the bed. Also make sure the bed is clean. Acetone or alcohol to clean with.
2nd: Make sure the printer is enclosed and shielded from drafts such as air conditioning.
3rd: Let the machine pre-heat for a while with the bed to get the temp up in the chamber.
4th: You can start to drop the bed temp after the first layer probably down to 100. May take some experimentation.
5th: You will probably need something to help with adhesion such as hair spray or glue stick or ABS juice.
6th: Make sure the parts cooling fan is not on.
7th: Speed. Slow first layer then I would try around 2400mm/min to start with and use a .2 layer height.
When you had an issue with PLA you mention using the same temps - if it is what you used for ABS then WAY to high! PLA - 65 bed to start then drop after first layer and 200 to start on extruder.
I only print in ABS and I've completely solved my warping issues.
Glass plate
Hairspray (aqua-net extra super-hold)
110 bed temp
heated chamber to 50c: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1524781
The heated chamber is only needed if you are printed tall long pieces.
PLA
S3D 4.1.1 -> edit process -> temperature -> bed -> layer 1 : 70C, layer 3: 60C
S3D 4.1.1 -> edit process -> temperature -> extruder -> layer 1 : 195C, layer 3: 205C