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I'm trying to decide which filament to get. I want something that is flexible, and returns to its original position when unflexed. Does anyone know what the differences are between the NinjaFlex and FilaFlex filaments? Is one better than the other? Is one different? Are they based on the same material? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
I am eager to follow this thread. I too am trying to decide. Thanks for starting the discussion.
Don't leave the PlastInk Rubber out of the mix:
http://www.plastink.com/en/rubber/product/view/2/8.html
It even seems to come in a clear version:
http://www.plastink.com/it/prodotti/...view/2/31.html
davo, do you have a place here in the states you are getting the plastink?
I got to see the NinjaFlex filament this week at the Inside 3D Printing Conference. I can't compare it to the FilaFlex, as I haven't had the chance to handle it or see it in person yet. However, I really think that the NinjaFlex filament has a good amount of potential. It is very flexible, and holds its shape extraordinarily well. Here are a few photos we took at the NinjaFlex booth this week.
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...27480341_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...95373065_n.jpg
This was printed using the NinjaFlex Filament
Sorry, I don't recall how we came into possession of the material.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimc
I have FilaFlex for sale on my website but I haven't had a chance to see NinjaFlex in person so I can't really compare the two. How about this, if someone here has access to NinjaFlex or has seen it in person and can write up a comparison I will gladly send a free sample. Otherwise if you have any specific questions about FF I can try to answer them.
It turns out the PlastInk folks sent us some samples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo
I can't comment on the FilaFlex filaments, but I can comment on the NinjaFlex. This is definitely a filament that will hold it's shape after being stretched. It is nothing like the flexible PLA filaments that are on the market. The polymer chemistry is completely different.
Feel free to email me at stankulikowski@fennerdrives.com and I'll answer any questions that I can.
Stan
biggest problem i have heard with the ninjaflex is getting it to feed. it must be extra soft and rubbery or something. i have used the ecoflex which is the flexible pla. it feeds fantastic but you cant keep it down on the bed which stinks. i am interested to hear some feedback on filaflex or the plastink stuff. i recently had the opportunity to test some very strange material which was a heat meltable silicone. crazy stuff and was just a prototype filament. tricks to get that to feed as well but not impossible. once i got it going i had no issues. there is a fellow member on another forum i am on that has been trying to get ninjaflex to feed for 2 weeks and has still printed nothing. must be really tempermental to the extruder design.
jimc,
Please feel free to send my email to the fellow member struggling with NinjaFlex. The feeding is dependent on the extruder design. We do know where it works well and how to modify some extruders to make it feed better. We are always looking at improvements as well.
Stan
stankulikowski@fennerdrives.com
I have handled Ninjaflex builds when I was up at the Lulzbot factory, and it definitely will return to original shape. When I was up there last, they were still developing the special extruder for it, you couldn't use a regular extruder. Now that they are in production with the Ninjaflex extruder, we're going to get some and also order in all the colors of Ninjaflex. We're just waiting on a quote with our wholesale pricing.
We already have Makerbot flexible filament in the store, and we have not been able to get a successful build out of it on our Rep 2s. We've been working with Makerbot support on this. For one thing it prints at 100°C (we had originally just plopped it in there at the standard Makerbot setting of 230°C). I think the print speed might need to be slowed down too, our standard speed is 90mm/sec. In any case, it is much firmer than Ninjaflex. I don't know what the Makerbot flexible filament is made of, but I know from talking to the engineers up at Lulzbot that Ninjaflex is a urethane based elastomer.
I haven't used filaflex or ninjaflex, but I can say I have personally touched and held stuff made with NinjaFlex and it was really great stuff. I don't know if there are feeding issues or not though.
Here's a cool video of some things printed using the Ninjaflex filament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...;v=mHCdhRwVMHM
From what I hear, both of these are quite amazing. I hear that some printers have a little bit of a difficult time printing using the NinjaFlex (could be the same with the FilaFlex), but when you get it working, this stuff is really amazing.
I haven't used NinjaFlex, but I have had the chance to print a little with the FilaFlex. I messed up my first print because the filament was getting kinda clogged on the nozzle. I figured out the issue though (my fault), and then printed out a rubbery looking hand. It came out very nicely. I'd definitely recommend it if you want that silicon like feel.
I've used the NijaFlex and this stuff is excellent once you get it to print. We have used about 3 rolls so far. I have an Airwolf HD with the Boden head at work. We have found that it sticks to glass easily, little or no bed heat is needed and don't cover the printer leave it open, if the spool material gets too warm it's like trying to push a noodle through the extruder. The parts are extremely tough when printed tight (squish the layers together). The parts can't be torn or pulled apart. We have used them to make flexible pipe couplings, bellows, anti-backflow valves, gaskets and other prototype items for our new products. We have had problems with it jamming in the feed mechanism, it also takes a while to fully purge the ABS from our extruder and for that reason we run it on the hot side (abs temps) so it tends to droll from the tip. Our feeder isn't completely tight on the inside so it can double up inside and jam. Its understandable that using a Boden type extruder is not ideal for a flexible material, but it does work.
Hi, Just got couple rolls of Ninja Flex and I'm having issues with it jamming in the feed mechanism too. May I ask how did you manage to fix that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Schultz
Thank you.
Can i print with NinjaFleX and a flashforge creator x?
or aHH.... what 3d printer prints with NinajaFlx... ?
I know this is an old thread but we finally JUST got our Ninjaflex. It's been backordered from Lulzbot for about 2 months now. We got their Flexistruder first and were just waiting on the material.
I have to say it was worth the wait! The stuff is VERY rubberlike.
Our first job has been in our store for over a month waiting on this material. It is a seal for a shower fixture diverter valve. The seal is no longer made, and a new valve plus installation would cost the customer over a hundred bucks. We designed the replacement (15 minutes x $40/hr = $10), built it (15 minutes x 20$/hr = $5) and it used $0.08 worth of material. So the customer gets a replacement for $15.08, probably less than what it would cost if the hardware store had them in stock.
Note that the Flexistruder for the Lulzbot TAZ was about $300 and the material is about $60 for 0.75 kg.
Printing notes:
Prints at 230°C
Unheated bed (TAZ uses PE tape covered glass)
30mm/sec
0.4mm layers
It needs to build up pressure inside the nozzle before it extrudes smoothly, but boy does it work well. Bridges decent too, even without the fan running. I am REALLY happy with this stuff. I doubt we could use this with our Makerbots, Type As or Z-Morphs, the Lulzbot TAZ Flexistruder is really key to getting good results, along with the slicing profile they provided for Slic3r.
Would this make it inorganic, like silicone caulk?Quote:
Ninjaflex is a urethane based elastomer.
You can use this link to find the Data Sheet. It should answer your questions.
http://www.fennerdrives.com/25c4272a...e180419c/_/3d/
Ah, looks like it probably has organic rubber:
Quote:
will degrade and lose its elastic properties when submerged in water for extended periods of time.
I've printed with 1.75 FilaFlex (from extrudables.com) with a modified extruder, and it prints nicely on a clean glass plate. Am still working with the settings, but so far I am very pleased.
From what I understand, it is acetone, solvent, and fuel resistant. I am not sure if other flexible filaments are the same.
I am the UK beta tester for Filaflex, I also have NinjaFlex.
They are both Thermoplastic Polyurethanes (TPU).
The difference is the temperature they are extruded at during the manufacturing phase.
I can snap 1.75mm Ninjaflex by stretching it with my hands, Filaflex I can not.
Filaflex is more elastic.
Ninjaflex can be slightly easier to print due the surface roughness of the filament (due to extrusion temperature during manufacture)
Filaflex prints on cold glass.
Ninjaflex is recommended to be printed on a heated bed, although some users print on cold glass too.
Filaflex Safety Data Sheet : http://recreus.com/en/index.php?cont...d_attachment=8
Ninjaflex Safety Data Sheet : http://www.fennerdrives.com/FetchFil...a-e81b22ce9ad0
See my blog for more tips on flexible printing : http://www.gyrobot.co.uk/blog/how-to...ible-filaments
http://www.thingiverse.com/Gyrobot/designs
Tried filaflex, ninjaflex and easyflex.
Except that easyflex is 3x cheaper :-)
Can't really choose between them.
But hands down my current favourite flexible filament is polymakr polyflex. Flexible pla. But prints just like good normal pla. Not as stretchy as the tpu/tpe filaments but just as flexible and just as strong - once printed.
Any idea then why they would degrade in water? I don't think PU does.Quote:
They are both Thermoplastic Polyurethanes (TPU)
oh yeah they all print on cold blue tape. I pretty much don't heat the build plate these days.
It could be the additives to make them print easier, that may have the problem, but to be honest, I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DPBuser
In regards to why TPU is not recommended for long term immersion in water, a better understanding of the polymer chemistry is needed.
From Wikipedia:
What this means is that when you submerge the TPU in water, water molecules (which are polar) will slowly intercolate into the polar "crystals", and serve as lubricant between chains. This will cause the TPU to become swollen, and cause a loss of the elastic recovery response. How much of an effect this is depends on the exact chemistry of the specific TPU formulation, as they vary greatly.Quote:
The final resin consists of linear polymeric chains in block-structures. Such chains contain low polarity segments which are rather long (called soft segments), alternating with shorter, high polarity segments (called hard segments). Both types of segments are linked together by covalent links, so that they actually form block-copolymers.The polarity of the hard pieces creates a strong attraction between them, which causes a high degree of aggregation and order in this phase, forming crystalline or pseudo crystalline areas located in a soft and flexible matrix. This so-called phase separation between both blocks can be more or less important, depending on the polarity and the molecular weight of the flexible chain, the production conditions, etc. The crystalline or pseudo crystalline areas act as physical cross-links, which account for the high elasticity level of TPU, whereas the flexible chains will impart the elongation characteristics to the polymer.
These "pseudo crosslinks", however, disappear under the effect of heat, and thus the classical extrusion, injection moulding and calendering processing methods are applicable to these materials. Consequently, TPU scrap can be reprocessed.
So, then....
Which flexible filament should be used when making a flexible cup to drink from?
Are any "food-safe"? (Just thinking here of all of those water bottles that are now labeled as "BHA/PBA free")
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrophreek
I'd use polyflex.
it's as safe as everything else - which is to say that it's down to the individual to take reponsibility for drinking from a 3d printed cup.
But shouldn't taint the water as much as a tpu based material.
Actually there IS a safe flexible material that is not only anti-bacterial but also anti-viral.
No it's not certified - but it'll kill any microbes that come minto contact with it.
reprapper techs flexible pla with copper.
Copper kills any and all microbes that come into contact with it.
http://reprapper.en.made-in-china.co...-Filament.html
Not sure how it would effect the taste of any liquid - but it would be safe from a bug point of view.
TPUs can be FDA approved, but I haven't seen any filaments so far with the approval. Would be interesting to know.
There is no such thing as FDA "approval" for a material per se', however medical devices can be cleared for marketing through the 510(k) process for class II devices and with clinical trials for class III devices. When FDA reviews a device for marketing, materials of manufacture are among the characteristics that are evaluated by the FDA reviewer. In the case of pharmaceuticals, both the formulary and the manufacturing process are evaluated, including materials that may come in contact with the pharmaceutical during manufacture and packaging.Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphzoontjens
There is however a list FDA-approved of materials called "GRAS" which stands for "Generally Regarded As Safe". These are for food ingredients and additives rather than materials such as TPU.