PLA Troubles

Hi everyone, I just bought my first 3D printer and it's awesome. It's a PowerSpec 3D Pro dual extruder from Microcenter. I'm using ReplicatorG for printing and Skeinforge for slicing/gcode generation.

Having said that, I'm having some challenges printing with PLA filament. Take a look at the photos below to see what I'm talking about. This is all from a single print job, but it's pretty consistent with what I've been getting. I've adjusted print bed temp (anywhere from 50 - 75 C), hot end temp (from 165 - 185 deg), feed rate (from 33 - 60 mm/s), all without being able to get a clean print from top to bottom. I get the curling corners regardless of what my print settings are, with a raft or without.

Oh yeah, I'm printing on the Kapton tape that came with the printer.

I'm actually going back and leveling my print bed again just to cross that off the list. Thanks for your help!

Attachment 3831 Attachment 3832 Attachment 3833 Attachment 3834

I would definatly check the bed level again.....And all the PLA i print on my Dreamer likes to be around 200c

Thanks. Checked the bed level and I think I've got it as close as I'm going to get at this point in time. I've got a test indicator on the way, so I'll be able to satisfy myself as to bed levelness once that shows up.

I've run several more test prints, tried printing nozzle temp all the way up to 220C in 5 degree increments, not getting much better results. I've been watching very closely and killing the print if I start to see it go awry. I noticed on one job that the raft that was printed wasn't lining up with the edges of the printed model, so the edges curled a little as they didn't have a good foundation to adhere to. I've eliminated the raft and found a good bed temperature to get the PLA to stick and it looks like my first layer isn't coming out looking very clean.

I'm running one last test print for the evening, some single layer calibration stuff. I'll post pictures when it's done.

I'm thinking that there's a basic printer calibration issue here.

So here's a single layer print. I got distracted while doing this (ooh, shiny object!) and forgot to post the update that I promised. I've got two primary areas of concern - one is the obvious circle on the right side of the print, the other is the area in the center of the left half that looks sloppy.

The right side issue is because there are holes in my print bed where it is bolted to the PCB. The Kapton tape overlays them, but there is an air pocket between the tape and bolt head. Clearly not a good spot to print. I'm going to avoid printing on those in the future. Any suggestions on adding a PLA usable build plate on top of a heated bed? Add a layer of glass with some binder clips maybe?

As for the left half of the print, any ideas? I'll check my last saved g-code to see what temp it ran at. Not at home now, so I'll check that later.

Attachment 3885

Have you tried using blue painters tape? It covers the hole area fairly well and results turn out pretty good. For printer settings, PLA seems to like the HBP at 45 deg C and the hot end at 200 deg C (adjust as required). Also, try leveling your bed at the temperature you are planning to use. I finally got good results once I did all of the above.

My plan for dealing with that screwhole is next time I replace the Kapton tape I am going to fill it with Sugru and level it out with my putty knife. Its annoying when you are printing without rafts thats for sure!
At least Sugru or similar will be removable if you need access to the bolt beneath at a later date and should be stable temperature wise for the bed heat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by quirkyfunny

Have you tried using blue painters tape? It covers the hole area fairly well and results turn out pretty good. For printer settings, PLA seems to like the HBP at 45 deg C and the hot end at 200 deg C (adjust as required).

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blue painters tape (or green frog tape in my case) stuck so hard, it was easier to remove the tape then to pry the model off once done, as for temps, im running my HPB at 64c and nozzle at 195c, im getting good results except overhangs, but im working on that, currently printing a coin tray i designed, ill post the file once im sure it works ok.

for pla use painters tape - just don't heat the bed.
It sticks just as well but is slightly easier to remove.
I never managed to print anything reliably on the kapton.
That said, the otiginal bed isn't flat so I added a flat printbed quite quickly and have used blue tape ever since. I'm going to get another couple of beds and work out a magnetic attachemnt method - at which point I'll start experimenting with different coatings. But at the moment haven't got time to mess about and lots of stuff that needs printing.
For abs I use makerware and a raft.
Pla, makerware or simplify3d and no raft unless it's really tiny or a sphere.


For overhangs - add some active cooling of the print area. Fixes problems and improves prints amazingly.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:537918

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEM

So here's a single layer print. I got distracted while doing this (ooh, shiny object!) and forgot to post the update that I promised. I've got two primary areas of concern - one is the obvious circle on the right side of the print, the other is the area in the center of the left half that looks sloppy.

The right side issue is because there are holes in my print bed where it is bolted to the PCB. The Kapton tape overlays them, but there is an air pocket between the tape and bolt head. Clearly not a good spot to print. I'm going to avoid printing on those in the future. Any suggestions on adding a PLA usable build plate on top of a heated bed? Add a layer of glass with some binder clips maybe?

As for the left half of the print, any ideas? I'll check my last saved g-code to see what temp it ran at. Not at home now, so I'll check that later.

Attachment 3885

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Put another layer of Kapton over that one to fix the hole issue, or use Blue tape as suggested, but put it over the kapton.

As for not heating the bed.. mm.. I would actually, I can print cool on my kossel and I3, but for some odd reason my flashforge needs usually 60c or 65c for successful PLA printing otherwise it doesn't stick as well, whether that's due to the more enclosed case who knows, but just a fact of life for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikenmel08

I would definatly check the bed level again.....And all the PLA i print on my Dreamer likes to be around 200c

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Same here, I've been printing on a glass plate on my Dreamer, PLA at 205 and bed at 60, and it's working very consistently.

Using blue tape with heated bed helped a lot. Thanks for the input everyone.

It seems that I'm seeing some issues with oozing now, starting corner on build always has a little extra blob of plastic and that throws off every layer afterwards. Any ideas?

Shots of all 4 corners of my test box in it's current state. Rotating around the box to follow the perimeter tool path. Blob is on the first corner. This box is also printing out of square. The first layer on the first side is printing proper width, but every other layer is about .5mm short of full width. You can see the issue in the first image. I trimmed the first layer back a bit to get my calipers on the base as I've been measuring base and top width for variance. I'm also getting something of an "hourglass" effect on this, as you can see in the image.

I'm continuing to experiment with skeinforge settings, but I'd love any feedback if anybody has a quick fix to any of the obvious issues below.


Attachment 3973 Attachment 3974 Attachment 3975 Attachment 3976

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEM

Hi everyone, I just bought my first 3D printer and it's awesome. It's a PowerSpec 3D Pro dual extruder from Microcenter. I'm using ReplicatorG for printing and Skeinforge for slicing/gcode generation.

Having said that, I'm having some challenges printing with PLA filament. Take a look at the photos below to see what I'm talking about. This is all from a single print job, but it's pretty consistent with what I've been getting. I've adjusted print bed temp (anywhere from 50 - 75 C), hot end temp (from 165 - 185 deg), feed rate (from 33 - 60 mm/s), all without being able to get a clean print from top to bottom. I get the curling corners regardless of what my print settings are, with a raft or without.

Oh yeah, I'm printing on the Kapton tape that came with the printer.

I'm actually going back and leveling my print bed again just to cross that off the list. Thanks for your help!

Attachment 3831 Attachment 3832 Attachment 3833 Attachment 3834

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It isn't a bed leveling issue. It is a layer cooling issue. It isn't a Build plate temp issue. I bet if you print 2-3 of those at the same time your problems will go away. Test it out and see what happens. If the problem goes away if you print 3 at a time you will know that the layers aren't solid when the next layer is put down. You might have a little over extrusion going on also that compounds the problem.

Thanks JF. Learning a lot in these early stages. Any advice on how to identify and compensate for over extrusion? I've read in RepRap forums that you can adjust extruder steps per unit after extruding a fixed amount of filament, but this printer doesn't seem to be as open to firmware level tinkering.

Also, I enabled skirt and oozebane settings (default) in Skeinforge and saw marked improvement. The skirt gets rid of that first corner blob, runs a lap, then we get down to printing. Continuing to tinker, appreciate all of the tips.

Use Makerware to start at least and install Profitweak. You don't need to mess with steps.

What's the reason for Makerware/ProfTweak? More familiarity or more available settings? Fewer settings so less likely to screw something up (I've already done plenty of that spades with RepG/Skeinforge)?

I ask because I'm running on Win8.1 right now so I can't install Makerware. I'm going to set up a separate machine for print work at some point in time, just haven't gotten around to it.

I'm running Win8.1 and have Makerware installed (and I don't mean Makerware Desktop Bloatware!). No problems with it at all. I've since bought S3D just because I wanted more...

Can you supply the installer for Makerware? I can't find it online anywhere as Makerbot is pushing MDB like there's no tomorrow. I tried Geoff's download link but I couldn't install the program.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NEM

What's the reason for Makerware/ProfTweak? More familiarity or more available settings? Fewer settings so less likely to screw something up (I've already done plenty of that spades with RepG/Skeinforge)?

I ask because I'm running on Win8.1 right now so I can't install Makerware. I'm going to set up a separate machine for print work at some point in time, just haven't gotten around to it.

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http://www.makerbot.com/desktop

Why can't you install on win8?

I have used Makerware desktop before springing for Simplify3d.. It works pretty good and yes it is to access a more known set of settings to start with.

That links to the new Makerbot Desktop for me, not original Makerware. I can install that just fine on Win 8. My understanding is that there was a previous version just labeled Makerware that lots of people on this board seem to think quite highly of.

How do you feel about Simplify3D? Was it worth the money? I looked at it and considered purchasing, but had a hard time justifying the cost, especially without a trial option. I'm not a big fan of shelling out $140 US for something unless it gets the job done. That said, while I'm learning a lot about how 3d Printing works, I'd love to be actually printing. I've had a queue of print requests since day 1. Funny how that works.

I've used Desktop, it isn't bad. Just opt out of the Cloud storage stuff that auto links your designs on Thingiverse.

S3D is absolutely worth it. It just works things the right way. Makerware is nothing without Profitweak, and profitweak is very cumbersome.

Thanks for all of the help everyone. I'm well on my way.

Good quality prints, though my Y axis is dimensionally short. I think this might be why:

Attachment 4021

And I wondered why they included an extra bracket... I love tangible problems with clear solutions. I'll tackle that tomorrow and see what happens.

- I would design a stronger bracket and print a few spares after you get it fixed. Its a little worrisome that your printer is so new and yet already has an issue of that caliber.