3D Printing of Weapons - Can Anything be done?

This is something that really really scares me about the future of 3D printing. People can pretty much print anything using 3D printers. That includes weapons. You name it.... Guns, Knives, Chinese Stars, etc... the list goes on. In my mind, I can't see anything at all that will prevent dangerous criminals from getting their hands on dangerous weapons. You could outlaw the posting of STL files for weapons, but that won't stop anyone. You can outlaw the printing of weapons, but again, people will have printers in their own homes, where it would be impossible to enforce such a law.

Are we just doomed as a society when it comes to this problem, or is there a way to protect ourselves in some way?

Zip guns can already be created from all manner of common materials, but they are not a significant problem. I predict 3D printed firearms will be a similar non-issue.

Right now 3D printing has limits that prevent kids from downloading and printing a functional gun, the risk right now is that they'd hurt themselves trying.
Anyone who can make a 3D printed gun work at the moment could also use other tools to make one out of a pipe and other parts found at a hardware store.

I agree it's a scary vision, but the neat apsects of 3d printing prevails.
New products, medical applications, art....

As with other technology, educating kids about how to use it right, is the best way to pretend awefull things to happen.
Bans are usualy just making things worse.

At this time this is a non issue, a person can make something WAY more dangerous from a few pieces of pipe, and a nail. Farmers have been making shot gun booby taps out of mouse traps, a nail, and a piece of pipe forever, way too many people have been killed by them. Yet they are not a big problem. I seriously doubt printed guns will become a big problem. I have no doubt that the technology to build a decent printed gun will soon exist, but it doesn't look like it does at the moment.

I do not remember the loud mouth in Texas name that claims to be printing guns, but what he is making is way more likely to harm the person firing it, than any one it is pointed at. When I saw his designs, I almost contacted him, I could have sorted out his problems, then I decided it would be better to let things take their course. He has some terrible material problems, not insurmountable, but currently he is no danger to anybody except himself. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing to ones self.

This is how I roll, no printer needed.

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Totally agree with crowbar. Humans are fragile, and we can be killed with basically anything. It doesn't take a 3d printer to manufacture a weapon, just a frame of mind.

I agree. It is a non issue, but there are those in the government that are against ownership of such weapons. Anyone against ownership of a gun will be against the printing of a gun. On top of this, in order to purchase a gun, you need a license, which requires background checks, etc. To print a gun, you need nothing. A criminal just out of jail for murder could easily go home, download a design and print a gun. I'm sure in the future, there will also be printable bullets. It's a bit scary, but something that must eventually be dealt with in one way or another.

Eddie

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Originally Posted by Eddie

I'm sure in the future, there will also be printable bullets.

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Tafelodearmaus (probably incorrect spelling) has tested 3D-Printed buckshot and slugs before. They didn't work well, but they seemed like enough to kill.

In 2012, lots of people visiting us at Maker Faire were asking about printing plastic guns. It had just been all over the papers and the news. This past year, I never heard one person ask. I do not believe it is presently a big issue.

It was a big issue when the idea that it could actually be done came out, but once people realized that nothing bad would come of it, the idea kinda dropped off the face of the earth.

I would think that printable ammunition would come along around the same time as a printable pear, it is not an easy thing to do, a lot of chemistry.

I think the IDEA of printable guns is a curious one, one that has repercussions in a persons rights. I honestly believe in a law abiding persons right to own a gun, no matter whether it is printed, or manufactured. That will not stop the various governments from regulating it though. Maybe regulate 3d printers ?

Under most conditions, a person being released from prison is given "terms and conditions", and supervised. In the case of dangerous people, much more so. I would think that in the terms and conditions, they would include "no access to a 3D printer".

If a person is set on committing a crime, they will do so, no matter what. I have read about random murders, using knives, in the UK, in the great ole USA, there have been some spectacular murders using kitchen knives. I do not know if it is still this way, but in Scotland, it was illegal to have a sword, the Scottish buried their swords. Should knives be done away with ? A printable knife is pretty easy.

People fear guns, while it is not the gun that needs to be feared, it is the person. Guns are benign, until a person takes one up, and then it is benign until it has ammunition. It would be easier to control ammunition, ammunition is much more difficult for the average person to make.

This thread is borderline whether it should be in this area, but it has enough responses that I think it should stay here.

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Originally Posted by Lindros_bigE

This is something that really really scares me about the future of 3D printing. People can pretty much print anything using 3D printers. That includes weapons. You name it.... Guns, Knives, Chinese Stars, etc... the list goes on. In my mind, I can't see anything at all that will prevent dangerous criminals from getting their hands on dangerous weapons. You could outlaw the posting of STL files for weapons, but that won't stop anyone. You can outlaw the printing of weapons, but again, people will have printers in their own homes, where it would be impossible to enforce such a law.

Are we just doomed as a society when it comes to this problem, or is there a way to protect ourselves in some way?

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There is one thing you can do. Educate yourself and everyone around you about the proper and improper uses of guns. It is important to understand how they help and hurt us in society. Guns are a tool and just like any tool they need people to be educated about there safe and proper handling, even if they never own one. In this day and age I am starting to wonder if parents should have a frank talk about guns in the same way they talk about the birds and the bees. I don't have kids yet but when I do I think it is something I may try.

I live in Chicago, which has one of the highest murder rates in the country. The fact is that the people who want to hurt others will always find a way. There is a reason that nobody ever points out how many crimes are committed by legally owned guns, its miniscule. Criminals aren't stopped by laws, only the law abiding are. The only real fix is to help people learn ways to survive without violence. It's a task that seems so difficult that people would rather try to deal with the symptoms(violence), instead of the causes.

I think that it's a non issue. If people could 3D print nuclear weapons that would be another story. If technology ever becomes so advanced that any one person could easily end the world, then we are in trouble. Guns, who cares. If someone wants to get a gun, they will, whether printed or not. I don't see them outlawing ingredients that can make bombs. Heck, look at the Boston Marathon bomber. Fireworks, nails and a pressure cooker. No different.

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If people could 3D print nuclear weapons that would be another story.

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Don't worry that will never happen since one would still need Plutonium 239 or Uranium 235 and I bet it won't be available in form of filament anytime soon :)

I'm not afraid of 3D printed guns being used for common gunfights, anyone who really wants a gun can get one. The only thing that concerns me a bit regarding 3D printed guns is that they have better chance of passing through metal detectors especially if ammo is also printed from plastic. I suppose it would still be hard to get one on a plane but it could pass not so thorough inspections like the ones you can see on major events.

Anyways I'm no big expert on crime, I live in Slovenia where we have only 20-25 murders in the entire country per year. Population is a bit more than 2 million.

What scares me is that people can now make Plastic guns. This means that guns will now be able to be brought past metal detectors. With the amount of plastic 3D printers already on the market, this is a pretty scary situation. I guess metal bullets would still be needed though, right?

http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...tid=5108&stc=1
In 2012, the U.S.-based group Defense Distributed disclosed plans to design a working plastic gun that could be downloaded and reproduced by anybody with a 3D printer. “Defense Distributed has also designed a 3D printable AR-15 type rifle lower receiver (capable of lasting more than 650 rounds) and a variety of magazines, including ones for AK-47. Soon after Defense Distributed succeeded in designing the first working blueprint to produce a plastic gun with a 3D printer in May 2013, the United States Department of State demanded that they remove the instructions from their website.

I know this is a very old post. But someone else necro'd it first :)

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Originally Posted by Lindros_bigE

This is something that really really scares me about the future of 3D printing. People can pretty much print anything using 3D printers. That includes weapons. You name it.... Guns, Knives, Chinese Stars, etc... the list goes on. In my mind, I can't see anything at all that will prevent dangerous criminals from getting their hands on dangerous weapons. You could outlaw the posting of STL files for weapons, but that won't stop anyone. You can outlaw the printing of weapons, but again, people will have printers in their own homes, where it would be impossible to enforce such a law.

Are we just doomed as a society when it comes to this problem, or is there a way to protect ourselves in some way?

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I am curious as to what you think needs to be done? And from what do you think you need to protect yourself?

Guns have been around since the 15th century, 600 years give or take. And for about 99.9% of that time, guns were freely made by individuals, private enterprises and gunsmiths for hire and were carried by individuals and criminals alike. It wasn't until recently that they were regulated at all in their number, type or ability to sell/ trade them. This is a recent problem caused by regulation of something. Generally, regulating something only hurts the legal owners and users of that item. Criminals are only delayed slightly in acquiring that item, whatever it may be. And by regulation, you decrease the legal used/ownership of that item and shift the ownership ratio in favor of the criminal element.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard

I would think that printable ammunition would come along around the same time as a printable pear, it is not an easy thing to do, a lot of chemistry.

I think the IDEA of printable guns is a curious one, one that has repercussions in a persons rights. I honestly believe in a law abiding persons right to own a gun, no matter whether it is printed, or manufactured. That will not stop the various governments from regulating it though. Maybe regulate 3d printers ?

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Printable ammo is already a reality and has been looooong before the first 3D printer happened and its very easy to do. In fact I have been printing it for quite some time. Its called reloading and it doesn't use or need a 3D printer. I buy powder. I buy bullets/lead. I collect used brass or buy new. Some people cast recycled lead into molds to form their own bullets, I don't. From those components, I make my own ammo. With my progressive press (which cost 1/2 what my 3D printer did), I can (and do) turn out more than 400 rounds per hour of 9mm handgun ammo. I can easily go through that in a weekend with my 14yr granddaughter, we both shoot in IDPA pistol competitions. With my turret press, I produce only about 150 per hour of pistol ammo but I mainly use that press for my precision long range ammo used for my Barrett MRAD at a rate of only 50 per hour (but its precision rounds, not mass produced). With my ammo and that rifle I can put 10 rounds into a saucer from a quarter mile away. Just in case you don't know what I any of that means, here is my granddaughter shooting at the range from 4 football (US football, not soccer) fields away and being accurate enough to hit a 50cent piece..
http://cdn.ipernity.com/116/55/59/35...bb02c1.240.jpg

There is nothing shady here. Nothing illegal here. I am a legal gun owner. And for the time being, I have no plans to use my 3D printer to produce a gun. Rails, grips, camera mounts, maybe. Print gun itself, no real interest at this time and it was not a factor in getting into 3D printing. Is it an advantage? Sure it is. The fact I CAN do something gives me power that someone else can't take away. You can't take away knowledge. You can only take away things. And with knowledge, things can be re-acquired when needed.

History has told us that any time something is regulated, it becomes a commodity and a criminal element tends to crop up around producing and distributing that item. This can be said for tea, spices, precious metals, alcohol, tobacco, drugs....and guns. Regulate 3d printers? Seriously? They can be built and assembled by anyone with reasonable skills from parts that are untraceable and purchasable by any kid with money to buy them. Regulate them and they simply go underground and continue to be made and used.

Every government on the planet could make it illegal to print a gun. It won't stop it from happening. As I said above, you can take away things, you can't take away knowledge.

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Originally Posted by MercedesStolp

In 2012, the U.S.-based group Defense Distributed disclosed plans to design a working plastic gun that could be downloaded and reproduced by anybody with a 3D printer. “Defense Distributed has also designed a 3D printable AR-15 type rifle lower receiver (capable of lasting more than 650 rounds) and a variety of magazines, including ones for AK-47. Soon after Defense Distributed succeeded in designing the first working blueprint to produce a plastic gun with a 3D printer in May 2013, the United States Department of State demanded that they remove the instructions from their website.

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And within hours of that edict by the USDoS, the files were available everywhere on the planet via underground sources (torrents for example). Another example that proves my point above. You can't take away knowledge.

My feelings here are that if someone is legally able to own a gun, 3D printing it shouldn't matter. If someone can't legally own a gun, then don't blame the 3D printer for him getting one. He (she) will acquire one somehow, likely through any means. Its time people placed the blame and the fault on the criminal, not the thing they used or abused. Do we blame the car because someone runs down a kid in the street? Do we blame the alcohol distiller? Do we blame the liqueur store? No, we blame the drunk driver. Why then do we blame the 3D printer for making a criminal a gun? Why do we blame the gun at all? Blame the criminal who used it.


I will be clear here (as if it wasn't already clear), I am a legal gun owner and supporter to the US 2nd Amendment as well as a life member of the NRA. I support LEGAL and RESPONSIBLE use of firearms. Criminal use, absolutely not. They should and need to be held accountable for their actions. I have not and do not plan to use my printer to produce a weapon. Just because you can do something, doesn't man you should.

I can't believe we are necroing this ..... it's plastic for christ sake.... Talk about use efficient when you already have better alternative.

Engineering teachers have access to lathes and mills : they could make actual working weapons faar less dangerous to the user. Yet somehow they have refrained from it, no ?

Anyone can buy a mill and lathe. I haven't seen a ban on those. I don't expect there will be a ban on 3D printers anytime soon. This is just hype piling on hype.

There is no need for ammo shells to build a projectile weapon, you can rig a very effective induction rail gun for less than 400$. We're not banning car batteries or mosfets either are we ?

So let's stop with the nonsense already.

Touche'

Someone who gets it. :)

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Originally Posted by LambdaFF

Engineering teachers have access to lathes and mills : they could make actual working weapons faar less dangerous to the user. Yet somehow they have refrained from it, no ?

Anyone can buy a mill and lathe. I haven't seen a ban on those. I don't expect there will be a ban on 3D printers anytime soon. This is just hype piling on hype.

There is no need for ammo shells to build a projectile weapon, you can rig a very effective induction rail gun for less than 400$. We're not banning car batteries or mosfets either are we ?

So let's stop with the nonsense already.

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The difference is in the skill level required to make the weapon.
Any non-metal parts can be made from plastic.

Anyone with a metal 3d printer can probably acquire the cad files for an ak47 and print the parts.
To manufacture those same parts in a more conventional manner requires a lot of skill and knowlege.

That's the difference.

So yeah, 3d printed guns will be a problem when metal printers get cheap and criminals realise how easy it is to make untraceable guns that don't have to be transported over national borders.

And no the problem is NOT the same in the states - you already have far more guns than people. But in the rest of the world where guns are tools and not an inalienable right - it will be a growing and serious issue.

Also to make ammunition you just need the casing and bullet (both can easily be printed) a couple of youtube videos to walk you through making the propellant and ignitors.
So yeah becasue the technology of 3d printing takes the skill away from making complex parts - it is going to be a major issue in the next decade or two.

and even then you know unless you print it out of metal/carbon fiber it really is a one use gun and would be a waste of money imagine every time you shot of a cheap plastic gun for $20 and every time he shot it , the overall cost would an alert to the guys ( unless he's rich ) also you could easily comment an embedded google analysis tracking code and watch the traffic and besides 3d printing gave us a lot of miracles and it's not like a 3d printer can make chemicals , i don't know if you are aware of
the cost of cyber foot prints see i am from Canada so one of the things that is currently part of the mandatory part of education is how much people could easily discard there life , i am not trying to sound like a hater but there are results for actions in regards to social nature. nature is reflective so good things build up and so does trouble

Clearly many people are unaware of a lot of things surrounding guns and their manufacture.

1. "Its a one use gun". Not entirely true and only true in some of the situations. Yes, the first design is for all practical purposes a single use weapon. Many of the current and later designs are not. In fact most currently available designs are not.

2. "Its not detectible by a metal detector". Again, only partially true. Some of it would not be and only if it were printed from plastic. The ammo certainly is detectible. Any springs or metal barrels are. Most metal detectors are capable of finding a quarter in your pocket let alone a bullet or spring. If not properly aligned or maintained, yes some metal detectors may miss the small stuff. So, is that the fault of the 3D printer or the fault of the scanner/maintenance company/operator?

3. "Anyone can 3D print a gun". No, not everyone can. Yall know how long it takes for you to become proficient at making good prints of common things. Now imagine how long it takes to get proficient to print parts that can contain the pressures involved in firearms (+30k psi). Should be self evident that not everyone is going to easily download a STL and press the print button and end up with a printed weapon that will actually work. Self evident unless you have been feeding at the trough of political BS. Could most people eventually do it? Yea, possibly. Likely not and most would give up after a couple attempts and obtain an illegal firearm on the street corner for $50 from another criminal.

4. "It takes skill to make a gun but not to print one". No, not entirely true. In fact under some circumstances, there is MORE skill involved in printing a gun part than making a gun using conventional materials. For example, you can purchase what is called an 80% lower for an AR that has no serial number and is not a gun according to all current laws. Then you buy the jig and drill bits, again, just hardware, nothing illegal. If you can operate a drill, you can finish the remaining 20% lower receiver of an AR, most likely in less time that it takes to 3D print one. THAT takes less skill than 3D printing one. I know, I have done both. I have yet to produce a usable lower by 3D printing it and have mostly given up trying.

5. "The only reason to 3D print a gun is for criminal activity". No, not so either. Many people wish to manufacture their own firearm for many reasons, the least of which is for criminal use. Personal knowledge. Modified design. Keeping the gov out of our bidness. R & D. Etc.

6. "The government tracks guns so its illegal to make them yourself". Zero truth. The government doesn't track guns. They track serial numbers. In the case of an AR (scary black assault rifles for yall unaware), only the lower portion of the receiver carries a serial number. No other part is tracked by any agency. You can purchase barrels, uppers, bolts, firing pins, triggers, stocks etc all perfectly legal with no involvement of an FFL or registration in any way. Buying the lower requires a FFL transfer and registration of the serial number if its a commercial purchase. Personal transfers vary state to state. No its not illegal to make guns for your own use. You can make guns all day and have no serial numbers on them, not register them and be perfectly legal doing so. You, however, can NOT sell them, give them away or otherwise transfer them to another person. That part IS illegal.

7. "By printing an unlicensed gun, it means they intend to use it illegally". So if I go fill up a jerry can with diesel fuel, then run to the hardware store and grab some pipe and fittings, then run down to a farm supply and buy some fertilizer, at that point I should be arrested? Those are all the main parts for a pipe bomb. By the same logic as printing a gun that it must be intended to be used illegally, then they should track all those things too and arrest anyone buying them because they intend to make a bomb. Maybe I just needed fuel for my tractor, needed to fix a water pipe and needed some fertilizer for the old ladies flowers. And could it be that the printed gun was going to be used at a legal range to experiment with?

Sorry, but some of you need to stop drinking the koolaid. There are FAR more dangerous technologies out there ALREADY in the hands of criminals and being used daily by them than their potential use of 3D printers to make a gun. Plexiglass can be cut with simple tools and formed into a totally undetectable weapon. Are we banning it? NO. Cell phones are used all freaking day by criminals to make drug deals, coordinate robberies, and to take/make illegal sports bets. Are we banning those? NO. Various chemicals commonly available at a local grocery store can be combined for various illegal uses, explosives being only one of those. Are they banned? NO. Any 8yr old has the skills to use the internet to find plans for bombs ranging from simple firecrackers to a nuclear device. Are we banning the internet? NO. Computers are used daily to hack into networks to steal large sums of money and personal information. Are we banning computers? NO. All of those things CAN be used for criminal use. Are they? Should they too be regulated, banned and controlled? Now Orwellian do you want to get? Get a freaking grip people. There are far bigger fish to fry to curtail criminal activity than worrying whether one of them is gonna use a printed gun.

The growing obvious hype of 3D printing matched with precedence & superlatives -- whether good or bad -- will only continue to bring attention. The best way is to ignore most dumbfounded critics & focus on the meaningful work. I agree that there far worse things than a 3D printed gun, as noted by a few of you here, but it's still a valid concern, albeit an overblown one.

Concern is one thing. Paranoia is a whole different level. Wait until the first printed weapon is used in a crime. It will be a media firestorm for weeks. Mark my words.

While at the same time, nothing but crickets from the media when a 3D printed limb or brace is made to aid an injured person or animal.

I agree with Wolfie on pretty much all points. The people who are freaking out about being able to print guns are mostly lacking the knowledge on what is readily available to the public in terms of 3D printing capabilities, and/or lacking the knowledge on how firearms work.

This reminds me a lot of the time Glocks became popular back in the 1980's. Glocks were the first mass-produced guns made with polymer frames and the media immediately went BONKERS over "plastic guns" that could get through metal detectors and all hell broke loose. This is, of course, completely ridiculous as only the grip and frame of the gun were plastic; the slide, barrel, firing mechanism and ammunition were made of steel just like every other gun. This media firestorm brought us the Undetectable Firearms Act and is the very reason why guns are required by law to contain at least 3.7oz of metal today. It was completely ridiculous then, and it's completely ridiculous now.

Did you know of test fired AR-15 printed by FOSSCAD members and it's designed to be the lightest available, another that includes a printed stock and grip. Awesome right!!!