The twisted rook

After many many failed attempts I have finally managed to print this complete with its DNA inside.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:399545

Not such a big deal but I have to tell someone. :)

I have done away with the heated bed and use ABS to print on then just slide the bed out and flex it to remove the prints. Since doing that nothing has failed to stick. The hair dryer keeps the inside at a constant 65 degrees C ish at head height. The hair dryer motor is driven from the 24 volt PSU and runs constantly, the hair dryer heater runs on mains through a relay driven from the heated bed output so temperature is set in the gcode.

It is a four hour print made of transparent ABS 40% fill and it looks cool with an LED under it. :)

It has taken me 2 months to print it and I broke a castellation off removing it from the printer.

I pulled it into NetFab so I could rotate and look at it. I like the circular staircase inside it. But from a practical standpoint, I think the opening in the top should be smaller so there is more room for solders to stand and run around the top. After all... They need to defend against what ever on the ground. Of course... If you were trying to be practical instead of artistic, there wouldn't be a double helix in the middle, right?

Very Cool!

Pah, little soldiers, I'll use it as a seat for my action man, that will make any small people that want to be domiciled there think twice.

Keep meaning to print that.

So why did you print it so big ?
My plan was to print same size as the sla machines and compare and contrast :-)

I might give that a go later :-)
Doesn't look like it should be that difficult.

So what problems have you had with it ?

looks a bit rough - what layer resolution did you use ?

Also looks like you probably need cooling on your print area more than heating in the case.
Try it again with a thin equal height column next to it. Think you'll find it's massively improved. Just needs some cooling between layers.

0.254 layer height but printed very fast, 90 mm/s. I printed it the size it was, I just got the STL off Thingiverse. The big problem I am trying to fix is a garbled LCD screen after it has been printing some hours. This is related to heat I think but I cannot find where the problem is. I am sure it would be a lot better printed more slowly and from an SD card rather than over serial, over serial it has a lot of pauses that don't do it any favours.

I didn't have a specific problem just lots of failed attempts, water in filament, jumping toothed belt on X axis, clogged head because of the heat shield tube and then the nozzles. Just turned out to be an epic but let me find a lot of things that needed attention really.

When do we see the Twisted Knight and the Twisted Bishop?

okay printing it 50% size (ie: normal chess piece size) at 0.2 with pla (my new bestest friend).
Not looking bad - the central spira is there.

I think I'll leave it printing the same thing at 0.1 when i go to work.
Some minor edges on the outer spiral - but doesn't look too bad.

Finished - it's all there. inner and outer spiral - staircase. Not totally smooth on the outer spiral. Inner spiral looks pretty amazing - can't see any areas where the two strands touch !
So the next one will be max detail and slowness. Now that's going to be interesting. Should take a couple of hours.
I'll grt back to you later :-)

I printed a 50% one at 60 mm/s and it looks better but that spiral edge is not too good. Central DNA is not smooth, seems like a series of blobs. I think this transparent filament is not good. When I first opened it it was really bubbly, I posted a pic on here somewhere of it. I seriously dried it and left it in a sealed bag with loads of silica gel. When I used it again it was dead smooth with no bubbles but now it has been open a week it is all bubbly again. Maybe I'll sell it as flexible silica gel, it seems to absorb much water very readily.

It's amazing what a difference the filament makes and that makes it impossible to know your settings before you have basically used half a roll.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

okay printing it 50% size (ie: normal chess piece size) at 0.2 with pla (my new bestest friend).
Not looking bad - the central spira is there.

I think I'll leave it printing the same thing at 0.1 when i go to work.
Some minor edges on the outer spiral - but doesn't look too bad.

Finished - it's all there. inner and outer spiral - staircase. Not totally smooth on the outer spiral. Inner spiral looks pretty amazing - can't see any areas where the two strands touch !
So the next one will be max detail and slowness. Now that's going to be interesting. Should take a couple of hours.
I'll grt back to you later :-)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mjolinor

I printed a 50% one at 60 mm/s and it looks better but that spiral edge is not too good. Central DNA is not smooth, seems like a series of blobs. I think this transparent filament is not good. When I first opened it it was really bubbly, I posted a pic on here somewhere of it. I seriously dried it and left it in a sealed bag with loads of silica gel. When I used it again it was dead smooth with no bubbles but now it has been open a week it is all bubbly again. Maybe I'll sell it as flexible silica gel, it seems to absorb much water very readily.

It's amazing what a difference the filament makes and that makes it impossible to know your settings before you have basically used half a roll.

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Both of you; post images if you can! I'd love to see the results - and it makes it easier to share experience.
I will print some as soon as I have my new-and-improved cooling setup ready to go (probably near the end of this week.)

The .2 mm is better
I printed the 0.1 too slow I think.

here they are with a standard size marvin - the rooks are 35.6mm high.
Attachment 2955

The 0.2mm one - the other one is the same but rougher.

Attachment 2957

Attachment 2958

Not up to form one detail - but probably better than the peachy ;-)

All the details is there - just needs arctic quality cooling.
But I love this pla stuff - my only complaint is that it sticks too much to the blue tape lol

I might have to try the 3dp windup again :-)

I think my filament is too hot. All these variables are hard to get your head round.

ABS, 220c, 60mm/s

That's not bad.

220 isn't too hot for abs. Looking at the print you're right on the edge of losing lamination.
You could probably go a few more degrees. Throw some active cooling in there and it'd probably be a bit better.

Am I too late for the party?

It's not the rook that you guys have, but it does have the double helix! (the LittleRP one gave some weird artifacts when I tried to slice it....)

Printed at full scale, 50% and 25%. The smallest one doesn't have the helix in it (because it was too thin) - also, the smallest one is held together by nearly nothing.. so fragile..

http://i.imgur.com/JHh73bk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OwE90fv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6uoCw57.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GlATOym.jpg

It doesn't have that helix slope that is hard. What was the problem you were having with slicing the littlerp one?

You are right.
Got it somewhat working though it produced some 'dots' and 'lines' arround the text area (visible even before slicing) and there are some lines blocking the top entrance of the tower.

http://i.imgur.com/iVTP0kP.jpg

But besides that; the slope really messed up the print. Will try this again some other day - want to have a much cleaner slope!

Here's the complete album with some more images for easier comparison:
http://imgur.com/a/bainu

I think that is the best yet. What did you slice it with and how big is it? A local coin doesn't give anything away to us foreigners. :)

Print speed?
Machine?
Layer height?
Material?

However I do it the top castellations come out really bad.

Don't they sell euro's in the UK? hehe :rolleyes:

It's scaled to 50%, but I measured it too to make sure we're talking about the same thing and it is 35,5[mm] tall.

It's made on a Flashforge Creator Dual - sliced with Simplify3D.
Material: PLA (the one that was delivered with the machine when I bought it)
Layer Height: 0.1[mm]
Print/move speed: 50mm/s (with outer shell done at 50% speed)

2 shells and probably 20% infill, not exactly sure about that last one.
Though I am getting some better overhangs now with a higher printing speed of 60mm/s (with outer shell done at 80% speed)

Something to note is that I use a duct fan pointed at the extruder - without this I cannot get these results. I also cannot get these results with ABS; but that's because I still have no idea how to deal with ABS.

Hmm, I think I need to find this simplify 3d thing. I'm not paying for it before I tried it though :)

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Originally Posted by Mjolinor

Hmm, I think I need to find this simplify 3d thing. I'm not paying for it before I tried it though :)

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Though I am very happy with the Simplify3D software.. I don't think that is what allows me to get the results that I am getting now.
It's all about calibrating your machine (I've printer 20+ cubes with different settings, to find the optimal settings; I've also printed many spheres, test-objects, torture tests, Marvins, etc..) and adding a duct fan for PLA.

Of course I'm not saying that you should stay away from Simplify3D, because it's easy to use software that can do a lot of good things, but don't expect magic!

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Originally Posted by Dargonfly

Of course I'm not saying that you should stay away from Simplify3D, because it's easy to use software that can do a lot of good things, but don't expect magic!

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Couldn't agree more, although I am yet to mess with S3D properly, looking at your prints, it is pretty clear you went to extraordinary lengths to calibrate your machine, and it paid off - you could print in most software and it would give you a comparable result, alot of that comes down the model really, and of course the work put in to make sure everything is A1. You actually probably have some of the best print quality I've seen come out of a flashforge, well beyond what I just sufficed with (I got it to a point where it was good, not as good as yours but it was good enough to get the projects flowing) if Flashforge had half a brain they would ask you for some advice :) but as I've said a few times now, FF have very little interest in user input, it's the one area they have always failed in. Sadly we have probably helped more of their customers here than they have.

The only thing I can still notice in your prints are the vertical ridges, I get those too.. not sure quite how to fix that one. Like in your big rook, on the bricks, they have some lines running vertically down them.. I get that too on roundish objects, even if the mesh is smooth.. but on my kossel, it doesn't.

I printed it again at 230 and the print has signs of burning. I can print with dayglo green and it comes out better than both blue or transparent, blue is better than transparent and doesn't really seem to mind what temperature you use.

Whatever I do the castellations on the top look like rabbit poop. Perhaps they are too small for ABS, is that likely?

At the moment I am trying to set up Skeinforge, making small changes to the settings and reading about each one, not that there is a lot of info available. I have improved bridging immensely by slowing the head down over the bridge, this seems contrary to the info available on the net where most people say you should speed up over bridges.

On the one posted above I wiped the head every three layers and it seems not to be a good idea, the model has cooled too much during the wipe. That is what is causing the apparent layer separation that was mentioned. This is why I need to find a way to "leave Z" during the wipe sequence but I am going to have to do that in the source somewhere that I can't find yet.

First born stole the last rook before I could take pictures so I will try to find it and take pics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoff

Couldn't agree more, although I am yet to mess with S3D properly, looking at your prints, it is pretty clear you went to extraordinary lengths to calibrate your machine, and it paid off - you could print in most software and it would give you a comparable result, alot of that comes down the model really, and of course the work put in to make sure everything is A1. You actually probably have some of the best print quality I've seen come out of a flashforge, well beyond what I just sufficed with (I got it to a point where it was good, not as good as yours but it was good enough to get the projects flowing) if Flashforge had half a brain they would ask you for some advice :) but as I've said a few times now, FF have very little interest in user input, it's the one area they have always failed in. Sadly we have probably helped more of their customers here than they have.

The only thing I can still notice in your prints are the vertical ridges, I get those too.. not sure quite how to fix that one. Like in your big rook, on the bricks, they have some lines running vertically down them.. I get that too on roundish objects, even if the mesh is smooth.. but on my kossel, it doesn't.

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Thanks for the nice words :D

Yeah the vertical ridges on cilinder shapes are a riddle to me too... I have a last few ideas that I will test over the coming week, but if that doesn't solve it then it's just the limit of the machine's design.. but then again, the Ultimaker can do it and the only real difference there is that it uses a bowden system.. can imagine that perhaps the vibrations of the extruders do something. As soon as I've figured it out I'll let you all know! :cool:

Actually a lot of the improvement IS because of the way s3d slices.

I printed some plugs for a black and decker workmate this week. Has a quite a overhangig slope on it.
With makerware the edges kept curling and the final underside was horrible - even after I'd sanded it on my disc sander.
The very same modekl printed with same settings and filament on s3d. Was completely different. It does this reinforced edge infill thing that prevents the ovehang from curling and the finished print was smoother than the sanded ones.

I'll do the rook with s3d, and I'm certain it wil be a lot better.

That said dargonfly has really put the work in on his printers. I just keep copying what he's done :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

..It does this reinforced edge infill thing that prevents the ovehang from curling and the finished print was smoother than the sanded ones.

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True, this is something that S3D does - I'm not completely sure, but I believe that it's doing that because it recognizes that part as 'bottom' surface (as it should) and thus it gives it a solid infill depending on your 'bottom layers' setting.

Now this can be good, like your example, where it reinforces the edge.

But it can be a bad thing too and result in even more curling.. which is my experience - I'll try to explain this (but I should actually make an image to really explain it)
- imagine a pointy overhang
- it prints the shells, all good (these pointy parts normally curl upwards a bit, but with the amount of cooling I have this is not an issue)
- then it prints the 'bottom' layers (reinforcing) - in result it moves the head towards that pointy part which puts heat into that pointy area again! Thus curling up the corner more than it should!

Hope that makes sense. Still, this is only my theory based on my examinations. But I'm 99% certain that the additional heat being transfered in the workpiece does more bad than that additional blob of plastic (reinforcement) does good.

I think the right way to print this piece is by using 3 processes:
1 process for the base, normal settings
1 process for the slope-part, no infill, no bottom layers, no top layers - also lower down the speed (travel speed too!) a bit just for the double helix
1 process for the top, normal settings again

Like many other things, I will do exactly this as soon as I have time~! (Man I wish I could just 3D print all day long!)
Currently busy with getting rid of the vertical ridges/vibrations.. making some good progess, but still need to do a few tests. Also will give you guys an update of the advantages/disadvantages of upgrading my firmware as soon as I've done all the tests ;)

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Like many other things, I will do exactly this as soon as I have time~! (Man I wish I could just 3D print all day long!)

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Ain't that the truth :-)

well printed the rook again from s3d.
Wow - some difference. Did one at 75% and one at 50% - don't have the 75% one anymore lol
gave it to someone this afternoon.
But it was pretty impressive.

When I get the battery back in my camera I'll take a couple pics of the 50% one.
Massive improvement over the one I did with makerware.
The side spirals are all smooth none of the crap I got with makerware. The dna spiral is clean, no touching areas, the stairs are sharp and the crenellations are definitely not rabbit poop ;-)

I did try a 25% one at 0.12 - but need to either recalibrate the printer or try and print the first couple layers at 0.2 and then the rest at 0.1 or whatever. Kinda like using a raft but without wasting any plastic.
I should be able to do that with two processes, right ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

well printed the rook again from s3d.
Wow - some difference. Did one at 75% and one at 50% - don't have the 75% one anymore lol
gave it to someone this afternoon.
But it was pretty impressive.

When I get the battery back in my camera I'll take a couple pics of the 50% one.
Massive improvement over the one I did with makerware.
The side spirals are all smooth none of the crap I got with makerware. The dna spiral is clean, no touching areas, the stairs are sharp and the crenellations are definitely not rabbit poop ;-)

I did try a 25% one at 0.12 - but need to either recalibrate the printer or try and print the first couple layers at 0.2 and then the rest at 0.1 or whatever. Kinda like using a raft but without wasting any plastic.
I should be able to do that with two processes, right ?

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Sound good! Looking forward to the images!

Yes, you can use two processes and set one up with 0.2 for first 1mm, then take over with over on 0.1mm for 1mm and beyond (it's under Advanced tab of Advanced (so... super Advanced?!))
If it is adhesion or general 'ugly layers' then you could also try starting with a higher temp, and gradually lowering it over the first few layers (helps me a lot with my crappy bend builplate.) That can be done in one process by adding several temperature setpoints.
Good luck!

nah it's just calibrating the bed tight enough for 0.1 to work.
If I do that then use 0.2 the bastard sticks too much :-)

Plus I like the idea of mixing resolutions in a single print. That i can see being useful in the future.

At the moment I'm printing this pla at 195 with no issues of any kind.
It's seriously good stuff. It's reprapper tech ltd brand. Costs a wee bit more (£5 per kg) than the cheapest on ebay - but given how easy it is to use, zero shrinkage or warping and just plain damn nice to print with. I figure it's worth the extra money.

here's the small rook.
Attachment 3055

Attachment 3056

Attachment 3057


nice shot of the spiral
Attachment 3058