Why Buy A 3D Printer? | Traditional Manufacturing Vs. 3D Printing

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"The value of all international trade (goods and services by land, air and sea) accounts for nearly 30% of the U.S. GDP. That value, which was 13 percent in 1990, is forecast to increase to the equivalent of 37 percent by 2015 and 60 percent by 2030." -U.S. Department of Commerce
If this consumerism based trend is continued, the U.S. could be in for a really big surprise when our once great manufacturing empire turns into a consumerist nation that can no longer be sustained by the rest of the world due to our bad habits and old ways.
LOWER YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINT TREMENDOUSLY BY CUTTING OFF THE OUTDATED, UNNECESSARY SUPPLY SYSTEM. SAVING TONS OF CO2 FROM ALL THE UNNECESSARY SHIPS COMING FROM OVERSEAS, ALL THE UNNECESSARY MATERIAL REQUIRED TO PRODUCE PACKAGING, AND ALL THE UNNECESSARY EXPENDITURES ASSOCIATED WITH BRINGING ANY ITEM TO MARKET. Buy a 3D Printer today!! THE MORE 3D PRINTERS, THE MORE THE EARTH CAN BREATH, AS WELL AS YOUR POCKETS.

WiZE3D.com

I see you're selling Makerbots and Makerbot-branded filament, all at full retail price.

Good luck with that.

I also see that you already have a thread in the Free Self Promotion section, so how about instead of just shamelessly advertising here we actually have a topic for conversation?

well I have to admit that my carbon footprint figured not one tiny little jot in my decision to buy a 3d printer.

And while I sort of care about co2, I know that I won't live long enough to see it all go tits-up - so honestly, couldn't give a rats arse one way or the other.

Are there really people who make day to day decisions based on their carbon foot print - a somewhat virtual and ephemeral object.
Short of living like a jane monk - there is realistically nothing you can effectively do to reduce your foot size.
You could plant a lot of trees I suppose :-)

Heck, I plant trees because they look good before really thinking about carbon footprint.

If the entire United States were to suddenly stop all man-made carbon dioxide production, it would reduce the annual increase in man-made CO2 production by about 15%. Not a decrease in man-made CO2, just a dent in the increase of it for the year. Mostly thanks to the rate that certain Asian and Middle Eastern countries are expanding their use of fossil fuels (with nearly zero regard for their carbon footprint). If anyone were serious about reducing man-made CO2, they would be forced to go after Russia and China just for a start. But it's just so much easier to use it to sell things in America.

I would have a lot of other things to say on that, but the whole subject is a minefield of drama, and pretty far off topic from 3D printing in general. Except to say that the 3D printing movement overall pretty good for air quality in general, (which I care about much more than CO2).

It's not a matter of CO2 emissions nor a matter of promoting my business. And certainly not to get heckled by some trolls on here. A positive impact on the environment is just a side effect of using a 3d printer. What it's about is thwarting the outdated, over complicated supply chain, while simultaneously bringing business to local communities and sway away from multinational corporations that could care less about the consumer and only put into account the bottom line, instead of what's good for the community. Instead of importing plastic from China, metal from Indonesia, and packaging from japan(pushing profits overseas). Shipping them using another multinational corporation. Store inventory at another multinational corporation, and sell them at multinational retail stores. We can support our selves and sustain our environment with the purchase of a 3D printer, while at the same time, support local economies, minimize pollution, and change the world one print at a time.

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Originally Posted by WiZE3D

It's not a matter of CO2 emissions nor a matter of promoting my business. And certainly not to get heckled by some trolls on here. A positive impact on the environment is just a side effect of using a 3d printer. What it's about is thwarting the outdated, over complicated supply chain, while simultaneously bringing business to local communities and sway away from multinational corporations that could care less about the consumer and only put into account the bottom line, instead of what's good for the community. Instead of importing plastic from China, metal from Indonesia, and packaging from japan(pushing profits overseas). Shipping them using another multinational corporation. Store inventory at another multinational corporation, and sell them at multinational retail stores. We can support our selves and sustain our environment with the purchase of a 3D printer, while at the same time, support local economies, minimize pollution, and change the world one print at a time.

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Give us a breakdown for the cost of making a 3D printer that is wholly constructed from parts and materials that are mined / sourced / made completely in the US.

LOWER YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINT TREMENDOUSLY??
You are delusional, I have ordered more deliveries from overseas using dirty filthy production and delivery methods since buying my printer also delivered via dirty filthy means.
I need all sorts of filaments, print bed heaters from China, alternate nozzles, LED lighting, replacement thermistors, the list goes on and on.
These printers are hobby and experimental devices only for the vast majority of us. Those that treat their printers more professionally are sending their printed items out via?, you guessed it.
3D Printing is not even close to beginning a whisper of a sniff of a rumour of a dent in international manufacturing and distribution.
Drop the self-serving eco babble, dismount your incredibly high horse and re-enter the real world.

You're not being heckled by trolls. Trolls throw out controversial statements to purposely wind people up and start arguments, mirror much?

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Originally Posted by WiZE3D

Attachment 2350
"The value of all international trade (goods and services by land, air and sea) accounts for nearly 30% of the U.S. GDP. That value, which was 13 percent in 1990, is forecast to increase to the equivalent of 37 percent by 2015 and 60 percent by 2030." -U.S. Department of Commerce
If this consumerism based trend is continued, the U.S. could be in for a really big surprise when our once great manufacturing empire turns into a consumerist nation that can no longer be sustained by the rest of the world due to our bad habits and old ways.
LOWER YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINT TREMENDOUSLY BY CUTTING OFF THE OUTDATED, UNNECESSARY SUPPLY SYSTEM. SAVING TONS OF CO2 FROM ALL THE UNNECESSARY SHIPS COMING FROM OVERSEAS, ALL THE UNNECESSARY MATERIAL REQUIRED TO PRODUCE PACKAGING, AND ALL THE UNNECESSARY EXPENDITURES ASSOCIATED WITH BRINGING ANY ITEM TO MARKET. Buy a 3D Printer today!! THE MORE 3D PRINTERS, THE MORE THE EARTH CAN BREATH, AS WELL AS YOUR POCKETS.

WiZE3D.com

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Makerbot Ad?

Okay, let's try to keep it civil. In hindsight, I may have set the bar pretty low for that earlier, but it doesn't need to go lower.

WiZE: First, the problem is that the outdated supply chain is exactly what is churning out most of the printers themselves, and using the more impressive printers to replace the entire upper left quarter of that first image with the right side of it. Second, fighting big multinational corporations is a fine and noble idea, but Makerbot is one of them now (or more accurately, got bought by one of them) Selling their stuff exclusively isn't making you look good on that argument. Get some open-source kit printers in stock, maybe a few products from smaller businesses and your narrative will play out a little more believably.

OZ: Half of your post is dedicated to being insulting and does more harm than good to the legitimacy of your argument. Sure you get parts from China, but this might be one of the last hobbies left where you didn't have to get Chinese parts. Also, WiZE isn't trolling. Trolling requires controversial statements, and there's really nothing at all controversial with "fight the power, save the environment, buy my stuff." It's been so popular that it's been used to sell everything from political candidates to Chinese toys since roughly the 1960s. The only thing I took issue with in WiZE's opening post was the "buy my stuff" portion.

That said, we at least have discussion going, now if we can all cool our tempers a bit, we might have a worthwhile thread.

Oh, come on, "Reduce your carbon footprint dramatically, buy a 3D Printer" is NOT controversial? I would have thought that a fictional association of a product with significant carbon emission reduction was extremely controversial. It’s certainly not a fact that can be backed up with any evidence.
The end to end Production-Distribution-Run equation of CO2 emissions for a 3D printer would be massively emission positive given that 95% of owners never print a single item that they would otherwise have bought, unless it’s an upgrade component for their printer. :D
3D Printing is the ultimate consumerism accelerator, we buy more stuff for it and we print things we would otherwise live without. We make what we want, because we can, rarely because we NEED to.
With a 3D printer in the house, make-do, becomes make-new. Sure you can fix a few things around the house and save a trip or two to the shops but nobody with a $1000 printer has ever printed out $1000 worth of useful objects.
There are 10 printed objects on a shelf in my office, I don't use or need any of them and I certainly would not have bought any of them. They look good, great conversation starters but I saved no trees by printing any of those out.

Sorry if I stepped over the insult line but playing the unjustified Eco card especially when selling more consumer stuff really gets me going.

First of all I'm not suggesting the only answer is to stop all imports from over seas. 3D printer manufacturers must retain good relations with reliable trading partners to provide affordable printers at a reasonable price. It's called outsourcing and there's a reason more and more companies are doing it. However, 3D printers are in a category all their own compared to ANY other commodity traded. Simply because they are producers themselves. When a world full of informed people can make the decision to either ship and package each item individually, or ship an item to make potentially an infinite amount of other items, then the answer is obvious.

Secondly we made the website to primarily educate people of the advantages of 3D printing, and the direction it's heading. Yes I'm selling printers and filament from makerbot exclusively at the moment. That's just to simplify the business start up. I chose makerbot because they have a proven record of success through innovation and great customer service. Soon I will be offering other printers and hardware/filament/etc from other companies as well, in case you were wondering.

3D OZ, I'm sorry you purchased such an unreliable 3D printer. If you're interested in getting a new one, I can get you a makerbot at full retail price HAHA =]

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Originally Posted by WiZE3D

3D OZ, I'm sorry you purchased such an unreliable 3D printer. If you're interested in getting a new one, I can get you a makerbot at full retail price HAHA =]

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What and double my CO2 footprint? I couldn't bear the thought.
BTW: My 3Dstuffmaker has been extremely reliable, it started life as a basic, no frills filament printer but I was able to build my own upgrades and improvements, customising its function to exactly match my needs, can Makerbot do that for under $800?

MakerBot, the perfect printer for anyone not smart enough to know better.;)

Makerbot is not for someone who wants to spend as little as possible to get a 3d printer. When you buy a 3d printer, you're not just buying a universal making machine, you're buying the reliability, the ease of use, warranty, and the customer support from the company. BTW: try to be less antagonistic OZ.
Anyone else want to talk about the benefits of 3D printing over traditional manufacturing?

Alright, lets start fresh.
You are a little too evangelical about the future of 3D printing and your perception of the likely impact on traditional manufacturing.
You began your argument with reference to CO2 savings that are incorrect and mention multinationals as an entity to avoid while promoting one of the few domestic 3D printers produced by a multinational, but lets focus on 3d vs Traditional manufacture.

Thare are no benefits of 3D Printing over traditional manufacturing, you misunderstand 3D printing's place in the world. 3D Printing's real strength comes when combined with traditional manufacturing by rapidly producing prototypes and making the process of design development easier and available to all.
Ultimately the object designed and prototyped on a 3D Printer can only be efficiently mass produced using conventional manufacturing methods.
Creating objects layer by layer through filament deposition, resin polymerisation or any of the other print methods will likey never match high volume injection molding or many of the other conventional methods for efficiency.

Focus on the design enablement, the art and the one-off creation capabilities that 3D Printers offer instead of thinking that we are on the cusp of some global revolution in mass manufacturing, because we are not.
3D Printers are design prototypers, not mass manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by WiZE3D

What it's about is thwarting the outdated, over complicated supply chain, while simultaneously bringing business to local communities and sway away from multinational corporations that could care less about the consumer and only put into account the bottom line, instead of what's good for the community..

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I find this ironic statment really hard to chew up and swallow when you are selling Makerbot's products at full retail price, I don't know of a company that COULD care less about the consumer.

I could find many examples, but I find this is a good one, as it's actually from one of the original founders...

http://www.hoektronics.com/2012/09/2...r-perspective/

I must iterate, I am not trying to 'Troll" as you said regarding other users, but this is a forum and if there is going to be a healthy debate, it will be here.

I think the 3D printers makes the prototypes in a fast ans save way. But it will change the way what the traditional manufacture do. Also, it will save time and money for the designers.

But why 3D printers can not be the normal machines like computer in our daily life? This is because its profession. Not everyone can use the 3D printer or not everyone needs to use such device. It requires the skills on operating the machine. Also, it require the people to know the design for 3D. How many people know these?

I think the purpose of this topic should be like this: What 3D printer can bring convenience to us?

The truth is that 3D printer is still far away from many designers. This is because the cost and the knowledge on this areas. But the future of 3D printer is bright, isn't it?:p

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Originally Posted by Mjolinor

Give us a breakdown for the cost of making a 3D printer that is wholly constructed from parts and materials that are mined / sourced / made completely in the US.

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I think that this is an interesting start : how much of the components are actually made locally ? I leave in Europe but I think that the situation is the same in the US : our enlightened buyers and commercials have seriously dis-industrialized our countries over the last 30 years.
Anyway to commit to actual eco-friendly manufacturing you'd have to tell me that Makerbot has decentralized assembly plants all over the world and a dedicated procurement plan to ensure the green footprint of the components... I don't think I'll live to see that.

Let's put things in perspective: Back in the 1980s, there were people who thought VHS would ruin the movie industry. There were also people who thought home printers would bankrupt the publishing houses as they got better and better.

Now? VHS has come and gone, CDR, DVD-R, recordable BluRay, blah blah blah, it's faster and easier to copy a movie from your friend than ever before and nobody in the movie industry is even fazed by it anymore. There's a paper printer of some kind in almost every household (that has a computer anyway), and nobody in their right mind would print out a whole book rather than buy it unless it's a textbook with a ridiculous mark-up in price (Of course, tablets have made that obsolete, but back in my day yeah, printing and binding your own pirated textbook was actually a thing). Publishing houses are suffering more from a lack of public interest in reading than their ability to copy books.

3D Printing isn't replacing everyday products, but it will put on notice the companies that have an unreasonable markup on their proprietary plastic pieces, which has a lot more application outside of schooling. Much like the paper printers of old, I can see 3D printing being essential for the high school presentation projects and college-level assignments of the future.

Also, I'm old enough to remember when "experts" on the news were actually concerned that the hole in the ozone layer would let the earth's atmosphere leak out into space. The Carbon Footprint rhetoric just goes right by me like so much white noise.

It is now no longer possible to stick with the UK for manufacture. I recently designed a sensor for current , phase and voltage measurement on low voltage networks. I needed a PCB. Absolute minimum cost in this country was around £100 for 10 off. I found a Chinese company that would do it for no cost, including components and assembly. All I had to do when it got here was programme the PIC. They even put it in plastic boxes and did two iterations of the PCB due to changes after I got the first lot.

No one in the UK will do that without a guaranteed order or at least projections of numbers. It's time that country borders were removed and we all became human beings. :)

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Originally Posted by Mjolinor

It is now no longer possible to stick with the UK for manufacture. I recently designed a sensor for current , phase and voltage measurement on low voltage networks. I needed a PCB. Absolute minimum cost in this country was around £100 for 10 off. I found a Chinese company that would do it for no cost, including components and assembly. All I had to do when it got here was programme the PIC. They even put it in plastic boxes and did two iterations of the PCB due to changes after I got the first lot.

No one in the UK will do that without a guaranteed order or at least projections of numbers. It's time that country borders were removed and we all became human beings. :)

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I think you were talking about the costs of the 3D printers' parts. Yes, such parts may be very expensive and you will find it hard to find in your local. That is another reason why "normal" people can use the 3D printer.

Please note that most machines are produced or assemble in China. This is because China is a country which has its advantage on producing. You can find many factories can help you on producing. But not all of them have good quality guarantee. You need to make a research more in the market.

lol, all you guys talking about carbon foot print and whatever, when the reality is this: people in second and thirt world countries dont care about this, they care about having something to eat and having money to buy stuff, no mather if it was made by an eco-terrorist corporation who cares only for money or a peacefull 3d desingner trying to change the world, the truth is, if you really want to change the world you must first give stability to the people rather than corporations/politicians, and then change all the thecnology that people have access to and give them clean, organic and carbon-free process and products, and yeah right now 3d printing require 80-90% products coming, guess what, from china or japan, i know that becuse i live in mexico and people preffer a chinnese copy of an ipad than a california made ipad, they just want the shiny stuff. cheers :o

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Originally Posted by MakeX

....China is a country which has its advantage on producing. You can find many factories can help you on producing. But not all of them have good quality guarantee. You need to make a research more in the market....

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sorry cant help to argue that, in china if you dont work all day long in the hardest conditions you dont eat the same happends in mexico, most of the workers on factories start at 7 am and finish theirs job at 5 pm, but at least 70% of the time they have to stay up to 10-11 pm becuase theres an "urgent job" to do, thats only an excuse to increase producttion and dont pay extra time to most workers, i know that becuase i was on that situation, im an enginner but i quit for that reason, my brother works on a office job and it supose he should work only 8 hours top, he works like 10 or 12 sometimes, so yeah if you think china is a great manufacturer, its becuase it gives all the pressure to its workers and they skip all the safety and enviromental procedures, just something to think about dont you think??. cheers

Manufacturing high tech stuff in the EU is really hard now : with REACH and what not it's either really costly or nigh on impossible to manufacture stuff with exotic surface treatments.
Yes you can do it for cheap in China but :
- safety isn't their concern (see FOXCON plants exploding due to aluminum powder unchecked, tens of workers burnt to death for shiny ipads).
- environment isn't their concern (I can drink tape water at home and Chinese people can't).
So while I'm not much convinced by the eco-footprint talk either, I don't lose sight of the fact that somehow the cost of doing things tidily is either paid or not, a choice with its own consequences.

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Originally Posted by bshadown

people preffer a chinnese copy of an ipad than a california made ipad, they just want the shiny stuff. cheers :o

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I hate to break it to you, but there is no factory making iPads in California. All of them are made at Foxconn in China. Consequently, the faulty Chinese knockoff iPads are also made there, but they know Apple would send the faulty ones back to Foxconn for a refund if they shipped, so they just put a knockoff brand on them instead.

Also, working 50 and 60 hour work weeks happens in the USA too, sometimes in two jobs or lots of overtime to pay for student loan debt or the mortgage debt, car debt and other debts Americans get peer-pressured into as they try to appear more successful. And then there's those who try to own a business... I know folks who are working 14-15 hour days, six days a week just to try to get their small business to the point where they can feed themselves and just like others, pay on their debts. It's not the "be your own boss" kind of life that most people imagine.

well, i concour with you Feign, apparently life its becoming harder and harder to archieve nowadays everywhere, and even when people try to go green the truth is we get more debt and headaches on our selfs, and our goverments should be working to improve the quality of life of their citinces but they are making it worse, i dont know hows on the states, but down here in mexico you guys looks like living a wonderfull life up there, i might be wrong and you guys have the same problems but hey the grass looks greener on the neighbor backyard, dont ya. cheers.

PS: yes i know all of them are made on china, but if they change the brand people "believe" the bad ones are made on china and good ones are made on california, on the states, its only the way most people see it, and lets be honest if you give the same device at a lower price, people wont care if they are faulty or not, they will only get a new one for the same low price.

Well don't despair, the cycle of debt to look successful followed by working unreasonable hours and stressing oneself to death has practically been an American tradition since the 1910s... With it almost actually collapsing everything in the 1930s. Like just about everything, economics goes in waves, it just happens that the cycle is a generational one, and our generation never experienced the last wave of despondency, so we think this is the first time life has taken one of these downturns and so we think it will go on forever.

Considering the era of the Great Depression was a time where America changed in a huge way (and the world, considering that the worldwide economic downturn of the time directly produced the facist nations that brought about World War 2), what we can be sure of is that we're in a time where huge sweeping changes of the way we look at the world are possible. Perhaps this time some ultimate advancement in 3D printing will be a big part of what turns things around. (rather than last time, where the ultimate technological product was the nuclear bomb)

Of course, also it may be different. I've heard it said that history doesn't repeat itself so much as that it seems to rhyme a lot.

WOW! Are we out of this topic now?

For the manufacturing in China, I may bring you more news. Different marketing targets depends the different costing. If you want to produce a high level 3D printer, then you need to pay more. That is the low in the market. In China, there are many many manufactures which can accept your orders. It depends on what requirement you want from them. Take iPad for example, the manufacturing is in China. But it is still a very good product after it is make out. Why? This is because "Apple" give them high standard on producing.

Coming to 3D printer, this is a new industry around the world. In China, not all the manufactures companies can make it. But you still have more chances to pick out the most suitable ones for you. You give them the standard and make rules for them. This is the first step to guarantee the product quality.

Why buy a 3D printer? This is because it makes making prototype easier and faster. But the costing of making such devices is still high. And I do not believe some 3D printers which always state out that- their machine is the cheapest in the world. A good and high quality 3D printer will not be cheap. When coming to the price, I think there still a long way to go.

I agree quality still comes at a price, and quality will continue to come at a price even if one or more of the cheap printer crowd-funding startups succeed. I think we will see an actual market of 3D printers under $500 though because people will get realistic about what they need. For a one-off prototype or a tchotchke that someone will use as a basis to sand and paint and give as a gift, how high a quality is good enough?

Ink jet and Bubble Jet printers are arguably the top of 2D printer technology, and while they're ubiquitous, they're not an everyday use machine, and many people (myself included) have gone back a step to a Laser Printer for the speed and material longetivity (after having my inkjet printer tell me my nearly full ink cartridges were too dry to print and that I would need to spend another $60-$75 even though I printed maybe fifty pages total on the damn thing, I swear the biggest freaking scam in all the history of technology harblebrlblGRR) Anyway, it's gonna be like that for the average consumer, to have a cheap (Probably cheaper than the chipped material cartridges that it uses) 3D printer that gathers dust 99% of the time while they keep buying stuff the exact same way they do now.

And the thread was off topic from the first post, so I regret nothing.:p

To much of your approval, WiZE3D now is offering 15+ consumer 3D printers! not just makerbot anymore. If you have any suggestions on how we can improve the site, or further empower the consumer, we'd love to here them!