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I'm done trouble shooting and out of ideas. Here is the rundown.... I've adjusted the print bed to between 90 - 120 C. I've also used hairspray and that did work pretty well for the smaller prints. As you can see from my pic this print will not stay attached. This is at least the 12th try. On this print I also tried a generous amount of hairspray but no luck. I'm looking for troubleshooting ideas, thx.
Attachment 8712
Brims, different adhesive, circles on the corners.
Getting tired of typing out the same advice few times a week, but not to be a total dick, I'll see if i can find a link.
But, even without knowing what material you're printing, that bed temp seems high, but those specs aren't my forte.
http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...considerations
What printer are you using?
What settings are you currently using?
What material?
What is the model?
How many solid bottom layers are you using?
What infill percentage?
Provide more information and maybe we can help you.
I assume you're using ABS since you're using hairspray. If so, try these settings
Nozzle temp 235
Bed temp 100
Print speed 50 mm/s
Infill 25%
Layer height 0.125
5 bottom layers
Use a raft (if you don't want to use a raft, use a brim, 15 outlines, 4 layers, zero separation from the part.
Too many solid layers at the bottom can cause extreme warping with ABS. Too much infill can cause weird shrinkage issues.
Search for "corner lift" to understand the causes and what can be done to counter it.
ABS slurry, corner pucks, heat, squashed first layer, luck. ;)
Use PETG instead of ABS. Problem solved...
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record...
when printing ABS make sure your printer is fully enclosed and preheated.
I'll give you a thorough answer. I'm bored at work.
ABS lifting/adhesion issues are quite common and can be solved with a few simple tricks, some of which were glossed over already. The following list, in priority of importance, will help you eliminate ABS lifting.
1. A properly leveled bed with a .1mm Zmin gap.
- When your printer is at it's lowest point you should have a .1mm gap between the nozzle and the bed. People commonly use a piece of paper to test for a .1mm gap. If you can easily slide a piece of paper between the nozzle and the bed then it's too high. The piece of paper should slide under with a little resistance. You can also buy a feeler gauge which offers a little more accuracy than a piece of paper. http://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Metric-.../dp/B0052IRYVS.
- The .1mm gap should be consistent across the entire bed. Move the nozzle to the four corners of the bed using G1 commands (G1 Zxxx Xxxx Yxx F500) and make sure that there is a consistent .1mm gap. If it's not consistent then you need to level the bed with shims. Many people mount there bed to springs and screws to allow for easy leveling. http://www.ultibots.com/springy-corner-bracket-kit-x4/
2. Your heated bed should be set to 105-110C and all fans should be turned off. Any less and the abs will cool too much and contract.
3. Use a proper adhesion film. Hairspray and purple glue stick should work, but better things have been invented. BuildTak or a GekoTek build plate are the two I can confidently recommend. BuildTak is what I use daily, and this stuff is nuts. http://www.amazon.com/BuildTak-Print...ords=build+tak. You may have trouble removing prints after the conversion to BuildTak. If you insist on using Hairspray/blue tape/kapton tape/purple glue stick (the cheap stuff), then less is more. A thicker coat of hairspray is worse than a nice thin coat.
4. An enclosure to keep the heat in. Like Sabastian says, ABS really should be printed with an enclosure. It's not mandatory, but you'll fight lifting/splitting until you do all of the things I recommended above without an enclosure. Another recommendation here is the use of a shell. You can tell your slicer to build a "shell" around your part as it prints which helps reduce cooling and acts as a mini enclosure.
5. The use of a brim. A brim alloys a bigger footprint on the part which will but cut off when you're done.
6. Print your first layer with a thicker extrusion width. It's common to print your first layer at 150-200% extrusion width to give the part more surface interface with the bed.
Mods - you should start sticking threads to eliminate having to repeat this stuff.
Thanks for all of your input.
I've read through and tried every suggestion with the ABS.. it still will not stay stuck. I suspect the part is just too big to print ABS reliably. As I type this I'm printing it with PLA instead. My concern with PLA is that it might not be strong enough... I'll find out soon.
In addition to being strong enough I will need to find an adhesive that will make a strong air tight bond to other ABS parts.....
That said, does anyone have a suggestion for a proper adhesive to glue PLA to ABS?
A great adhesive for PLA to ABS is a contact adhesive such as UHU. UHU also make a glue called UHU Por which works really well for us. Apply to both parts and then leave for a few mins and then push together and after a few hours it's an incredibly strong bond!
I couldn't find any at Home Depot so I'll have to order online... but I bought some contact cement.. maybe that will work?
my other thought, I noticed that the ABS raft stuck to the ABS part really well... but the raft would not stick to the print bed even with the hairspray and after adjusting the print bed temp.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried something other than hair spray? There are plenty of industrial strength adhesives out there.
Yes, but then you end up at the other extreme : how do you remove this from the printbed without shattering it.. ?Quote:
Originally Posted by PrintGuy
Buildtak works well for ABS... perhaps too well.
You should try it before abandoning ABS.
I actually tried buildtak per a suggestion in this thread. it did not work eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Davo
I hear what you're saying... i'm wondering if there is some adhesive that is not gonna superglue my build but will still work better than hairspray... also, if it is just gluing to kapon tape maybe that can just be pealed off the plate? ...Quote:
Originally Posted by LambdaFF
my other thought, I'm wondering what other plastic will keep its shape as good as PLA but is stronger like ABS? I'm thinking of getting a second printer to fill this need and also i need a printer with a larger build plate.
Okay...lets establish some photo proof. Something doesn't seem right. BuildTak is essentially the best adhesive you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrintGuy
Please post pictures of your print when using BuildTak. If you are using BuildTak with a 100C build plate, and a properly calibrated Z0 gap (paper test) then you are going to have to use a putty knife to remove the print. Even if the edges curl.
Also, "Not Sticking" is different from "Edges Curling".
Have you tried using a Brim? You can brim the bottom later which will significantly improve edge adhesion at the part.
I remember reading illuminati talking about how he uses a wet paper towel to dissolve the glue a bit and then lets it all dry up. I don't know if this would help your specific adherence problem; what I'm imagining is that by actively dissolving the glue to the glass you get better adhesion of the glue to the glass, this substrate layer also provides good adherence to the extruded plastic effectively coupling the two. Anyway just a thought, illuminati will likely shed more light on the subject.
to those who may be following this thread the problem has been solved and this is what it is:
Simply a design limitation/problem with my existing 3D printer. I'm guessing something to do with the heat bed. I have a FlashForge Creator Pro. It does PLA and small ABS parts well but large ABS parts will simply not stick to the bed. Even the seller of this printer acknowledges it except they said it was because of the shrinking nature of ABS. Too bad cuz the flashforge people have excellent customer support but not the best designed printer sad to say.
I purchased another 3D printer and the exact same large ABS part came out near perfect and with no lifting from the heat bed what so ever. I did not need to apply hairspray. The new printer is a 3Dwox made by a Korean Company. For the record, no i don't work for them. But so far i'm super stoked with the new printer. It is clearly very well designed and was only $1,300. I paid $1,200 for the flashforge and there is no comparison. you're welcome in advance to anyone who buys the 3Dwox based on this input.
Attachment 9021
Printing something that large in ABS without a heated chamber is very tough, even if you get it to stick to the bed it will probably split between the layers.
The best solution is to find some way to get your build chamber up to 120-130 degrees, on my flashforge I did this by cutting a hole in the side and attaching a low-power hair dryer. Now I can print ABS parts the size of the entire build area and not get any warping or splitting.
You do need to be careful not to get the chamber too hot or you may fry your electronics, 120 degrees seems to be enough.
Keep in mind that the ONLY reason FDM printers don't come with heated chambers by default is due to a patent.
There was a short video review this week by Thomas sanladerer on printing surfaces. Have a look.
KISSlicer has some nice features:
Easy selection between fast and precise
The printer settings contain one set of parameters for a fast speed and another set for precise operation. Using a slider you can select between those without having to change any of the parameters.
Raft
Select between a raft or a brim and select how much bigger the fast must be than your object.
Support with a 'sheath' given a more stronger support that does not break away during printing. The support also gets more dense when the object is reached (vertically) forming a kind of raft - this gives a higher quality surface.
Prime pillar
Primes the extruder before each layer starts. This is especially useful when using multiple extruders where you want to prime the extruder before printing a layer.
Tool path preview
Very easy to use 2D or 3D toolpath preview.
Check comparison of Kisslicer with other slicers on this link https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ot/12F0Iyvoark.