FlashForge Creator prints not sticking even with glue

Hi,

I recently purchased a flashforge creator and replaced the kapton tape with the pre-cut blue painter's tape that came with it. As ABS prints would not stick here, I added a 0.25 inch glass build plate on top of that. So there's the aluminum HBP, the blue painter's, and then the glass. So I've tried using glue and it just does not work. It is sticky in the beginning, but after waiting for it to heat up, the glue somehow dries and becomes very smooth. When the print starts, the ABS just does not stick, messing up the whole print. I've tried preheating the build plate first, without the glass plate, applying a fresh coat of glue, and then placing the glass on the build plate when it's at the right temperature. This has seemed to work, but I do not want to go through the trouble of doing this every time. I also have heard that a coat of glue can last several prints, but every time after heating, the glue dries and becomes too smooth for any ABS adhesion. If anyone could give me advice, that would be much appreciated. By the way, the settings I use are a 220 degree celsius temperature extruder and a 115 degree celsius build plate temperature. The glue I use is the elmer's extra strength glue stick that can be found here: http://elmers.com/product/detail/e5010

Thank you so much.

Any tape under the glass is a bad idea. You want your glass to lie directly on the aluminium build platform.

Are you heating your platform? You should, if you aren't. Ideal temp for ABS is 90 -95 degrees (start with 95). For PLA use 55 - 65 degrees.

For ABS the best 'glue' to use is slurry i.e a little bit acetone in a jar (about 75ml) with up to 300mm of filament cut up into it. The finer you cut the filament the faster it dissovles. This slurry is then apllied to the glass once the platform has heated to the correct temp. I just brush it on. Alternatively you cover your glass in Kapton tape. The is substantially more difficult than making slurry but works very well, sometimes too well.

also with abs I found I needed a raft.

And make sure when you calibrate, you do so with both the extruder and build plate heated to the print temperature.
Otherwise you'll get a big gap and things won't stick.

Before i stopped using abs I used blue tape and a raft. Yeah it takes longer and waste plastic - but everything I printed worked.

And if one print works - it's still quicker and cheaper than 3 that come off the platform halfway through the print.

Raft won't be need if:

- the bed is correctly levelled.
- the contact area isn't too small.

I ran with glue for a while.
switched to hairspray on straight glass. that works much better than the glue
I have almost no prints curl up. you also may want to tray lowering your HB as you go through the print.
for ABS
abs slurry works best with gradual lowering of the temp bed as you go along.

x2 get the tape off there..
run straight glass on your build plate with aquanet hairspray unscented in the purple can. it last a long time.
looks like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...w&gclsrc=aw.ds

I think meijer/walmart has it for 2-3$ for big bottle of it

I did use abs glue on glass - works okay, but having to repaint after every print is a pain.

never got round to trying the hairspray - although I did buy a can from poundworld :-)
As long as it lists pvc (think that's it) as one of the first ingredients - it should work.

It was around that time I switched from a flat glaass plate to a flat aluminium plate and from abs to pla.
And then wondered why I'd ever believed all the stuff about abs versus pla in the first place :-)

One thing I forgot to mention: on order to have a successful ABS print your printer must be enclosed. Front and top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebastian Finke

One thing I forgot to mention: on order to have a successful ABS print your printer must be enclosed. Front and top.

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??? Don't the X & Y stepper-motors get Too Hot with those Enclosures ?
Mine got Way too hot without an enclosure, during long prints.
I had to install a fan there.

I've read about those motors Failing, caused by overheating,
and since they are too hot to touch, they are too hot to operate long.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleSeven

??? Don't the X & Y stepper-motors get Too Hot with those Enclosures ?
Mine got Way too hot without an enclosure, during long prints.
I had to install a fan there.

I've read about those motors Failing, caused by overheating,
and since they are too hot to touch, they are too hot to operate long.

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The creator pro comes with the enclosures, and lots of people are using them without any problems. With the enclosure and the bed set to 110, it only gets up to about 40c which shouldn't hurt the motors.

I print abs on glass, I use abs juice applied before each print. The prints stick almost too well, I have to put the glass plate in the freezer before I even try to remove them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

I did use abs glue on glass - works okay, but having to repaint after every print is a pain.

never got round to trying the hairspray - although I did buy a can from poundworld :-)
As long as it lists pvc (think that's it) as one of the first ingredients - it should work.

It was around that time I switched from a flat glaass plate to a flat aluminium plate and from abs to pla.
And then wondered why I'd ever believed all the stuff about abs versus pla in the first place :-)

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Believed what stuff? That abs dissolves in acetone? that abs is more flexible? that abs melts at a higher temperature?

Those aren't "beliefs' they are simple facts. Of course if none of those matter to you, you should be using PLA as it shrinks less and requires less heat to print.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djprinter

The creator pro comes with the enclosures, and lots of people are using them without any problems. With the enclosure and the bed set to 110, it only gets up to about 40c which shouldn't hurt the motors.

I print abs on glass, I use abs juice applied before each print. The prints stick almost too well, I have to put the glass plate in the freezer before I even try to remove them.

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But have you measured temp of the Motors while printing??
I have and they get way too hot without a fan blowing directly on them. :(

I certainly would Not want my Favorite motors hanging about in that Hostile Environment ;)
of an enclosure ! :(

Aqua-net is the Best !!! ;)
Just the Correct amount of 'Holding Power' !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleSeven

But have you measured temp of the Motors while printing??
I have and they get way too hot without a fan blowing directly on them. :(

I certainly would Not want my Favorite motors hanging about in that Hostile Environment ;)
of an enclosure ! :(

Aqua-net is the Best !!! ;)
Just the Correct amount of 'Holding Power' !

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You stated before that you print with PLA so obviously you don't need a heated chamber, or a very hot bed for that matter.

If you're printing large abs parts without an enclosure your'e going to get splitting and warping no matter how good your bed-adhesion is.

The motors tolerate 40-50c temps just find, if they didn't mine would have failed long ago.

Quote:

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Believed what stuff? That abs dissolves in acetone? that abs is more flexible? that abs melts at a higher temperature?

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nope. That pla is weaker, brittle, shatters easily and is no good for outside usage. All of that is incorrect and based on old information based on old pla formulas.
And depending on the pla you use: 'that abs is more flexible? that abs melts at a higher temperature?'
Those are NOT facts.
The material chenistry world has moved on a very long way since the early days of basic abs and basic pla.

Hell they even make minimal shrink abs these days :-)

Do you homework before stating 'facts' :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djprinter

You stated before that you print with PLA so obviously you don't need a heated chamber, or a very hot bed for that matter.

If you're printing large abs parts without an enclosure your'e going to get splitting and warping no matter how good your bed-adhesion is.

The motors tolerate 40-50c temps just find, if they didn't mine would have failed long ago.

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Yes, I now only use PLA and HIPS, since not having any luck with ABS. :(
I would like to be able to use ABS also but I'm certainly not going to Cook the printer parts to do it. ;)


The overall chamber Temp is Not the same as Motors Temp.
If I remember correctly the actual temp of both motors was about 75 C average, which is too hot.
(measured with calibrated digital thermometer)
Before the fan was added.
(Y motor was about 10C hotter than X motor, since it gets less air flow in corner.
That was without an enclosure, so I'm sure they would get much hotter with enclosure.

Why use ABS? It stinks, it warps, it's generally more of a pain. PETG is my filament of choice because it has all the good of ABS and all the good of PLA rolled into one... :p

The main problem with PETG , as I understand it, is the extremely High melting temp.
I don't think most printers will Go that high and Stay there.
I Know Mine don't like going above about 220 C

Most printers? Seriously? Also, if you have a Creator Pro (or one of it's clones like I do), PETG is no problem at all. If you're having a problem with heating, it's probably due to the Power Supply being marginal. You can get a more powerful Power Supply for around 25 bucks US...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssayer

Most printers? Seriously?

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Yes, it's not Only mine, I've read several online comments about printers not being able to get above 230C maximum recommended temp.
I think it's the Heater in extruder-blocks that is the limiting factor, but not sure about that ?
Heaters can self-destruct if set at too high a temp, also. :(

Note: My Next 'BIG STUFF' printer will be able to Heat 'um to Sun-Surface Temps ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleSeven

Yes, it's not Only mine, I've read several online comments about printers not being able to get above 230C maximum recommended temp.
I think it's the Heater in extruder-blocks that is the limiting factor, but not sure about that ?
Heaters can self-destruct if set at too high a temp, also. :(

Note: My Next 'BIG STUFF' printer will be able to Heat 'um to Sun-Surface Temps ;)

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Our printers have a little PTFE tube to guide the filament into the nozzle. It's there to help with the thermal construction of the hotend so that you get very hot at the nozzle, but you don't want that heat to creep too far up the filament and melt farther up in the extruder because then you get a jam. There are all metal designs out there though.

That PTFE (teflon is a brand of ptfe) doesn't like to get too hot. It chars and releases fumes that aren't good for you and also comes apart and stops being as effective at its job. That PTFE tube puts an upper bound on hotend temps. The longer you're at higher temperature the more risk of charring you get. So you can get away with it for a while, but not forever. If you really want to run hotter, you might want to upgrade to an all metal hotend.

That said, some brands of PETG claim that it can extrude at 230 which is what a lot of people run ABS at. Hard to say without trying though because there are a bunch of local variables involved so you have to experiment with your own printer.

I've ran a PTFE lined hot end up to 280C for 3 hours+ and it worked fine. It isn't recommended for sure though. The temps that PTFE outgas is around 600F and even then it is a very small amount due to the size of the tubing. The only reason I did it was to try to get some nylon/abs layers to adhere. It was just a test.