Printer to replace Z18

Hi Guys,

Weve been having a lot of issues with out Makerbot 5th gen Z18. Imagine that!! Anyway I think were about ready to dump this thing and get a replacement printer for it. So I'm looking for suggestions.

Heres what we are looking for in a printer.

1. Large build volume. The z18 has a 12"x12"x18" build volume and sometimes even that wasnt enough. Doesnt really need to be bigger but cant be too much smaller than what were working with now.
2. Ease of use. Must be relatively hassle free, push a button and print operation. I dont mind tweaking some settings or whatever but this is for work so I cant be spending hours working on this think like I am with our Z18.
3. Speed. The faster the better. I do not care at all about how low of a resolution it will print because well never use it. I print at the largest resolution our Z18 can do because we want stuff printing fast. With an average print time of 8+ hours and many 20+ hours faster speeds would be really nice.

Any suggestions will be appreciated and considered. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Wanhao D5 might be worth a look if you want to go PLA.

have a look at the other: 'what to replace z18 printer with' thread.
Think we covered most options.

Although as the forum search says z18 is too short a word to search for - good luck finding it :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

have a look at the other: 'what to replace z18 printer with' thread.
Think we covered most options.

Although as the forum search says z18 is too short a word to search for - good luck finding it :-)

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I found this thread, not sure if its the one you meant but it has some good replys.

http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...er-build-areas

WANHAO D5S MINI seems fine, but I don't think the D5 is a good option,
it is too tall and there is no support structure in front of the frame,
I am afraid it shakes in printing process.

Why not considering Ultimaker 2 Extended ?

I checked Wanhao D5, it should be unavailable for ABS because of the open room and build plate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nicos.s

I checked Wanhao D5, it should be unavailable for ABS because of the open room and build plate.

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Yes thats why I said if you go PLA. The open cover and the fact it has no HBP. the D5 mini has the same limitations. Do you really need the build volume of the Z18 ?

Do you really need this big build size12"x12"x18" ?

If the size is not the big problem, I think you can find one easily.

yes he does need the build volume - read the initial post.

the bigbox looks good. In that sort of price range $4-6000 there are quite a few.

One option you might want to consider is go upscale and get a 3dp1000 - huge build volume, larger diameter nozzles and super fast low res printing. AND, you can rent one !
Well lease anyway :-)
Plus whatever you make at the moment you'd be able to have several items printing at once.
http://3dpunlimited.com/?gclid=CjwKE...MIKhoCd17w_wcB

My other thought was big delta. http://griffin-3d.myshopify.com/coll...griffin-pro-xl
so cheap you could buy 3 for the same cost as one z18. 18x18 inch build volume (18inch diameter so only one value)

Or one of the dutch Builder machines: http://3dprinter4u.nl/product-category/3d-printers/
The big build machine has build volume: 220x210x664mm appros 10x10x26 inches

They'd all be faster and more reliable than 5th gen makerbots :-)
They are all cheaper as well - well except the 3dp.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! A lot of good looking printers here. I've bookmarked all of these and will be researching them over the next couple days.

And yes Estela we really do need the 12x12x18 build size. After all it is #1 on my list of requirements. We print exhausts, intake boxes, radiator/intercooler end tanks, intake pipes, and lots of other very large stuff. The z18's 12x12x18 is a lot better than the 5x8x8 ish we had on our old printer but something bigger than the z18 would be great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magicolor

WANHAO D5S MINI seems fine, but I don't think the D5 is a good option,
it is too tall and there is no support structure in front of the frame,
I am afraid it shakes in printing process.

Why not considering Ultimaker 2 Extended ?

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EDIT (Sorry just realized the following question has already been answered): I agree with you on the D5S, plus being open means we could not do abs or nylon correct? Not that that alone is a deal breaker but seeing as most printers can do those materials its something worth considering.

The ultimaker 2 seems like a quality piece, however i noticed that the filament is 2.85mm. I have never seen this size before and dont want to get locked into a situation of were the only ones that make the filament for this printer so we can charge whatever. Are there other options for 2.85 filament, or would we be able to run 3.0 filament in the ultimaker instead?

ultimaker is not that big a print volume.

Most printers can be enclosed with perspex sheets and magnets pretty easily. So unless it's an open frame like the 3dp - having an existing enclosure isn't really an issue.

have you tried printing with nylon ?
It's a real bastard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pa9k

Thanks for the suggestions guys! A lot of good looking printers here. I've bookmarked all of these and will be researching them over the next couple days.

And yes Estela we really do need the 12x12x18 build size. After all it is #1 on my list of requirements. We print exhausts, intake boxes, radiator/intercooler end tanks, intake pipes, and lots of other very large stuff. The z18's 12x12x18 is a lot better than the 5x8x8 ish we had on our old printer but something bigger than the z18 would be great.

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I can see that you really want a large build volume 3D printer,
consider Mankati Fullscale XT Plus,
260*260*300 mm, dual E3D V6 hot end,
high performance and reasonable price.

To print with ABS and nylon, high temp hot end, hot bed, enclosed printer body are a must,
or else you can only print with very small objects.
So Wanhao D5S series are not for you,
they are not equipped with hot bed, and have a not easy to enclose printer body.

And for Ultimaker 2, 2.85mm filament is not a common specification indeed,
I think you can confirm the compatibility to them.

The Mankati Fullscale XT Plus seams like a really nice printer with some killer specs. Heck we could even buy like two or three of them for what we paid for the z18. Anyway, it looks to me like it uses a bowden style extruder. So would that have issues printing flexible filament like ninja-flex? If so how hard is it to convert it to a direct drive extruder?

Mankati Fullscale XT Plus is OK for NinjaFlex, but do not print with a high speed over 70 mm/s, or else, the thick melt filament will make the flexible filament curve in the filament tube,
this kind of problem also happens in some direct style extruder system, the flexible filament curves at the area under the feeder gear.

And I don't think NinjaFlex is the best choice of flexible filament, I found PolyMaker's PolyFlex is a better option for bowden style extruder, because its higher tenacity.

Comparing the price and performance from Mankati Fullscale XT and Ultimaker 2, I find the Mankati is much comapetitve.
Can Ultimaker 2 print any flexible filament?

@Magicolor

The speed is so slow! speed over 70 mm/s Do you mean the speed is for flexible filament?
What is the normal speed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pa9k

Hi Guys,

Weve been having a lot of issues with out Makerbot 5th gen Z18. Imagine that!! Anyway I think were about ready to dump this thing and get a replacement printer for it. So I'm looking for suggestions.

Heres what we are looking for in a printer.

1. Large build volume. The z18 has a 12"x12"x18" build volume and sometimes even that wasnt enough. Doesnt really need to be bigger but cant be too much smaller than what were working with now.
2. Ease of use. Must be relatively hassle free, push a button and print operation. I dont mind tweaking some settings or whatever but this is for work so I cant be spending hours working on this think like I am with our Z18.
3. Speed. The faster the better. I do not care at all about how low of a resolution it will print because well never use it. I print at the largest resolution our Z18 can do because we want stuff printing fast. With an average print time of 8+ hours and many 20+ hours faster speeds would be really nice.

Any suggestions will be appreciated and considered. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

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Hi,

well, Z18 is only featured by its volume. actually you can find a lot of substitution if big volume is not a must.
usring small printers and separating the parts can also help save time from failure printing.
Actually from my experience, lots of printers like Zortrax, Ultimaker, Up can beat makerbot, of course not in volume.

Yes, I mean for NinjaFlex filament printing, a over 70 mm/s speed is too fast.

For normal printing, the highest printing speed I have tried is 200 mm/s.

In the slice software I can set it up to 300 mm/s, but I don't think at that speed the printer will give good results...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magicolor

Yes, I mean for NinjaFlex filament printing, a over 70 mm/s speed is too fast.

For normal printing, the highest printing speed I have tried is 200 mm/s.

In the slice software I can set it up to 300 mm/s, but I don't think at that speed the printer will give good results...

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At these kind of speeds I wonder about the quality of the end result...

show me a video of a printer running at 200mm/s .
And producing a useable print.

That's just ridiculously fast. How do you get the plastic set fast enough ?

Ninjaflex is usually printed at around 20-40 mm/s max. Slower is usually better.

If the printed parts are for end-use, then consider PET filament, which is stronger that PLA or ABS. And it does not need an enclosure, and can be done without a heated bed with the right filament. This opens up the options of printer greatly, to solid ones like the F306 core-xy printer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

show me a video of a printer running at 200mm/s .
And producing a useable print.

That's just ridiculously fast. How do you get the plastic set fast enough ?

Ninjaflex is usually printed at around 20-40 mm/s max. Slower is usually better.

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Sorry, aardvark

I‘m back. And I took three short videos of 200mm/s printing, please check them on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/zPEMH8YL7Tw
https://youtu.be/8jzT3F6ii-s
https://youtu.be/QUoQJx6kwm0

To print with a very high speed, I set a much higher nozzle temperature at 240 degrees, in this way the filament can be melt as soon as possible.

And yes, NinjaFlex needs a slower speed, And I have printed PolyFlex at 45mm/s with my Mankati Fullscale XT Plus, and the result is great!

3DPrintBoard resized my picture...

Why after watching the 3 link, it does not feel 200mm/s print?


Because for me it is clearly between 50 to 100mm/s. The perimeter print is too slow for being 200, can't say about the infil, since the thickness is not that big.


But I am curious about your double extruder setting, did you use paper to calibrate both height?


Oh and dont upload pic on this forum, cuz it sucks lol. Upload on some 3D party hosting and link them, it is far better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richardphat

Why after watching the 3 link, it does not feel 200mm/s print?


Because for me it is clearly between 50 to 100mm/s. The perimeter print is too slow for being 200, can't say about the infil, since the thickness is not that big.


But I am curious about your double extruder setting, did you use paper to calibrate both height?


Oh and dont upload pic on this forum, cuz it sucks lol. Upload on some 3D party hosting and link them, it is far better.

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http://imgur.com/gallery/amieGDE/new
http://imgur.com/gallery/IvwEFRr/new

I find that the main print speed in basic setting is not a absolute value for the whole printing,
let me change the inner shell speed, out shell speed and infill speed to 200 mm/s and try again.

I tried again, the printer did not speed up very much.
It seems that the firmware limited the top speed.

Advanced setting:
http://i.imgur.com/x2vWGqz.png

Printing video:
https://youtu.be/-cur1bPCW-g

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richardphat

Why after watching the 3 link, it does not feel 200mm/s print?


Because for me it is clearly between 50 to 100mm/s. The perimeter print is too slow for being 200, can't say about the infil, since the thickness is not that big.


But I am curious about your double extruder setting, did you use paper to calibrate both height?


Oh and dont upload pic on this forum, cuz it sucks lol. Upload on some 3D party hosting and link them, it is far better.

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Hi, Richard

I calibrate the left nozzle with a card, and the right nozzle is a little higher than the left one, about 0.1 mm higher, I judge it with eyes... and it works good.
When printing with dual filament, the 0.1 mm higher right nozzle works as good as the left one, and it won't impact the object.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richardphat

Why after watching the 3 link, it does not feel 200mm/s print?

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I don't see a 20cm movement in 1 sec either. Probably limited in the chain somewhere.