Replicator 2x is destructing its build as it prints

I dont quite know how to put it into words, but basically, we have a Makerbot 2x at work, and it has several problems.
the first one seems semi-random, and is just the extruder clogging itself, but a 240°C extruding temp seems to do the trick. we have also printed all the spring loaded extruder parts in order to replace the stock one, we just need the spring.

the second one happens only when printing huge surfaces, such as a raspberry b+ case.
what happens is, the filament from a layer (usually the 2-3rd one) starts to peel off, and the extruder grabs it as it goes and it causes the case to have a hole on it (see photos).


we are printing at 240°C with the build plate heated at 120°C
printing with black abs from makershop

tl;dr: filament from a early layer peels off when printing large surfaces, and this is... bad?

EDIT: photo has been compressed, here is the full version: http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...78864board.jpg

well the obvious first step is to lower the print speed. Slower printing gives better layer adhesion.

The next step is to throw the abs away and use decent pla :-)
Solves most abs related issues (delamination, warping, curling, model shrinkage, smell etc)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

The next step is to throw the abs away and use decent pla :-)

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unefortunately this is not an option. but thanks for the answer :)
will try to lower the speed.

UPDATE: printing at 65mm/s doesnt do the trick apparently. i decided to let it do it's thing and maybe cover it up, we'll see. if not, i shall try 50 mm/s.

Well the standard fixes would be: slower print, higher filament temp and maybe lower bed temp.

Can't tell anything fro the picture as it's a tiny teeny thumbnail.

65 is pretty quick. Try 40. And 250 on the extruder.
And yeah printing slower does seem like a step backwards. BUT. If a print works first time. It's quicker than half a dozen failed prints :-)

you can click the link to have a better resolution of the image (or does it not shows up for you?)

the last try failed because of the first issue, but it managed to actually cover all the mess before failing, which i'll upload a photo of once it finished cooling down.

huge thanks for you support :)

Your temps are bit on the high side. Try an extruder temp of 230 and lower the bed temp to about 100 (or less even). The glass point of ABS is 105 so you don't want to go over that. Lowering your speed is good too, especially for the first layer and definitely if you have small holes.

Other things I would throw in as a matter of diligence are 1) calibrating your extruder and 2) definitely keep you printer completely enclosed when printing ABS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebastian Finke

Your temps are bit on the high side. Try an extruder temp of 230 and lower the bed temp to about 100 (or less even). The glass point of ABS is 105 so you don't want to go over that. Lowering your speed is good too, especially for the first layer and definitely if you have small holes.

Other things I would throw in as a matter of diligence are 1) calibrating your extruder and 2) definitely keep you printer completely enclosed when printing ABS.

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I tested different temps on a test model and 240°C seemed good, i didnt go higher tho. under 220°c it would just never come out of the extruder.

also, how do you lower the speed only for one layer?

i think it has been calibrated when we recieved it, because it wouldnt work before, and the printer is completely closed when printing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

65 is pretty quick. Try 40. And 250 on the extruder.

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Did this and fixed the 2nd issue. now the filament got stuck on the axis of the storage wheel, and the printing failed (again). I started it again, but my workday will be over long before it ends. I guess i'll know the results tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Themoonisacheese

also, how do you lower the speed only for one layer?

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I expect you use Makerbot Desktop as your slicer? It allows you to set a first layer speed. It actually allows you set different speeds for many steps eg. first layer, outer shell, infill,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Themoonisacheese

i think it has been calibrated when we recieved it, because it wouldnt work before,

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You really should recalibrate with every material change. Don't assume that every reel you get is the same.

well, the second issue has definitely been fixed, but the filament keeps clogging itself.
will try to recalibrate it, but makerware for linux doesnt allow me to set different speed for different steps.
Thanks for the tips anyway :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Themoonisacheese

well, the second issue has definitely been fixed, but the filament keeps clogging itself.
will try to recalibrate it, but makerware for linux doesnt allow me to set different speed for different steps.
Thanks for the tips anyway :)

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I don't use Linux myself but you should be able to create your own profile (as opposed to using the default ones) and this will open up a ton of options. Us Windows users use Proftweak to edit these but you can do it in WordPad or the Linux equivalent too. Proftweak is definitely easier to use as it gives a nice overview; with WordPad you'll need to go through it carefully but it is possible. Bottom line: don't use the default profiles.

well, thanks.

i am now able to change speed, i think.

now problem is, I just can't print big parts without the extruder clogging itself in the first 30 mins.

i am now printing at 40mm/s with the platform at 110°C and the extruder at 250°C.

Try and get some decent abs.

I printed with abs exclusively for a few months (until I tried pla - now there's a whole shelf of abs I don't think I'll ever use)- never had a nozzle clog, never used cheap abs either But did always have to use a raft.
reprapper tech ltd pretty much make the best all round filamaent both abs and pla I've currently used.

And almost every roll of filament is slightly different.
Even different colour filament from the same manufacturer will print at different temperatures. The colour pigments make a lot more difference than you'd expect.

Yo.... the under layer is clearly still too hot.

Printers that use shroud cooling tend to have piss poor quality fan (those 60mm or smaller fan). Dirt buildup is the main reason usually. Throw some lubricant in the sleeve or bearing and use compressor gun and spin it up the blade until it gets smoother.

Or replace with a Delta fan, but I doubt makerbot didnt foresee that :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by richardphat

Yo.... the under layer is clearly still too hot.

Printers that use shroud cooling tend to have piss poor quality fan (those 60mm or smaller fan). Dirt buildup is the main reason usually. Throw some lubricant in the sleeve or bearing and use compressor gun and spin it up the blade until it gets smoother.

Or replace with a Delta fan, but I doubt makerbot didnt foresee that :p

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TBH i dont recognise half of the words you used :p

I assume you are telling me to replace the fan that's cooling my filament... well, it doesnt exists. the plan is to add one then change filament for abs, but i dont quite know how to do it. i guess there is a lot of tutorials out there...

I printed a smaller thing overnight at 40mm/s, 250°C and the result is not bad at all, but the bottom of it seems melted, so i'll try lower the bed temp even more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Themoonisacheese

... but the bottom of it seems melted, so i'll try lower the bed temp even more.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebastian Finke

... and lower the bed temp to about 100 (or less even). The glass point of ABS is 105 so you don't want to go over that.

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Lower your bed temp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Themoonisacheese

I dont quite know how to put it into words, but basically, we have a Makerbot 2x at work, and it has several problems.
the first one seems semi-random, and is just the extruder clogging itself, but a 240°C extruding temp seems to do the trick. we have also printed all the spring loaded extruder parts in order to replace the stock one, we just need the spring.

the second one happens only when printing huge surfaces, such as a raspberry b+ case.
what happens is, the filament from a layer (usually the 2-3rd one) starts to peel off, and the extruder grabs it as it goes and it causes the case to have a hole on it (see photos).


we are printing at 240°C with the build plate heated at 120°C
printing with black abs from makershop

tl;dr: filament from a early layer peels off when printing large surfaces, and this is... bad?

EDIT: photo has been compressed, here is the full version: http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...78864board.jpg

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hello Themoonisacheese. I see you have some problems with your makerbot to print here I list some solutions that can help. Currently I have two makerbot 2X working safely and I'll buy a RepRap x400.

1. As I said earlier, placed extrucion speeds and displacement that brings the default printer.

2. do not replace any component unless you're 100% certain that this may cause you some discomfort.

3. Maintain the extruder temperature to 230 degrees is the optimum temperature for the filament.

4. Change the Kapton tape printer regularly to avoid a bad adhesion.

5. Do not touch with hands the plate because of natural fat from your body it affects aderencia.

6. Depending on the type of printing you should place the plate between 135 and 160 degrees. The thermocouple deface the printer has a 15 degree between the actual temperature and that senses.

7. for large prints using the Raft will help a lot.

8. Although makerbot tells you that R2X served with ABS and PLA is a lie. Only print well with ABS.

9. Make calibration plate and constantly extruders

I hope that helps you.

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Depending on the type of printing you should place the plate between 135 and 160 degrees.

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what ???
Pretty sure it only goes up to 120c anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

what ???
Pretty sure it only goes up to 120c anyway.

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hahahaha no, i printed at 165°C (plate) and 245°C (extruders) because i was in a room at 15°C

I printed stuff with 60°c bed temp + 3d printing lac, and it worked only to a certain extent

the filament justs stops extruding after about 30 mins (i'd say that corresponds roughly to a full spin of the storage wheel) and i can't manage to print anything with abs anymore. flex, nylon and HIPPS, on the other hand, work great.

finally figured the clogging issue-thanks to the makerbot eu support . it appears it was just a matter of the spring "thighteners" (the little brass bolts that makes them be stronger) were not that much tightening said springs. hope that helps future people.

1. Make sure your extruder heads are totally clean. Remove them and soak in acetone as discussed elsewhere on the net. This is why our prints randomly stop after a few layers- the tip is partially clogged (my theory).
1.5 Make sure the knurled filament wheels in the extruder assembly are completely clean of powered filament. Otherwise they can lose their grip on incoming filament. This is also a contributing factor for print stoppage.

Now for adhesion issues:

2. Try ABS juice (acetone with a tiny bit of ABS dissolved in it) to "clean" the build plate.
3. Level your buildplate WHEN IT IS HOT. Things change between cold and hot on ours.
4. We have had great success with the buildplate hotter than specified. We go from 130 to 140 C with really good luck.