Can you guys help me get the right printer ?

I did my research but the info out there is little so I though I could use some help.


I want to run a small business operation, print new toys with the printer and then sell them but looking at the quality of some printers, I'm not sure if it's the right time to jump in, technology-wise.

What I'm looking for in the printer is ( in order ) :


+ Quality and Precision :

I was looking at the print samples of Ultimaker 2, ranked #3 by 3dhubs.com under Enthusiast category, and THIS is what I found. One can't simply sell that kind of thing. Seems like FDM technology is not what I should be looking into.

http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...tid=4493&stc=1

+ Scale-ability and Low Operating Cost :

I want a printer that can print fast. Also the material it uses need to be cheap. Given that I probably won't be able to print high quality stuff with ABS & PLA my only option might be Resin or other options. So, the least I could do is to choose a printer that can print FAST. correct me if I'm wrong.

+ Price :

Yup, that too. I'd prefer if I could keep it under $1000, $3000 is okay but anything over that I'm gonna have to look for investors.

For starters, I wanted to print some Danbos. The are flat for most parts and not curvy so printing them might not be actually that hard. Maybe I could use FDM to print them ?

http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...tid=4494&stc=1

This is where I am at myself. I have made myself somewhat knowledgeable but I could really use some advice too. I'm looking at 3 printers right now. I'm thinking Ultimaker 2, Flashforge Pro Creator, or a WanHao 5S Mini. Out of everything I have looked at, I am assuming those are the top of the list for the 1k to 3k price range. I'd just like to hear from some of the people here what their opinion is too.

Lisent guys, everything i have seen for FFD thecnology Will get the Job done, but the quality and the obvius lÃ*nes from the layers aré something still far from perfect, if you look for lots of quality like injected mold quality get a resyn printer as far as i have seen they have way moré quality detail, but they are easier to break, just my two cents. Cheers

Yeah the lines will always be there since it's printing line by line. We are quite some years away before anything changes there on the consumer level. My main concern is just which is a good printer. Is the Flashforge Creator Pro well enough to go with or is there more than enough problematic issues to say that the price for an Ultimaker 2 would be a better deal. Basically bite the bullet and there will be less issues.... Then the flip side, is there enough information out there about the Wanhao 5S Mini to make it a good option?

I'm less worried about "lines" and more about the longevity and performance. I just don't want to end up with a printer that I'm having to constantly fix and I'm not knowledged in 3D printers enough to know what I would be getting into with those. I have narrowed it down to being that those would most likely be the best 3 currently out there based on stats. I currently have an UP! Mini and it's fine, but I need a bigger print surface. Also a little better than 200 microns...

The qualities you want in your printer are available in only one printer - FlashForge Creator 3D Printer. I am sure that if you purchase this printer ypu will fully satisfy with its work and it is also available under $1000.

I think if you are trying to set up, what is essentially a production line, with a single desktop 3D printer to produced a smooth, injection molded like finish, then you might be being a little optimistic.

You can get very hi resolution printers that print in wax and can be used to make molds but as to printing models with a smooth clean finish, it is possible but it requires some finishing e.g. acetone baths for ABS models can produce a smooth finish and some materials like wood impregnated thermoplastics can be sanded and stained. It can also take several hours to print a model depending upon the layer resolution (more layers, finer the model but the longer it takes ) and the size of the model.

You cannot really produce a mass market product at the scale you are talking about, you would need to look at niche products that would have "added value" .

Keep your sites set on your end product goal and with that in mind choose the most appropriate manufacturing method. If the fact that is 3D printed is part of that added value of the product then you would need to investigate the suitableity of the products.

Unless you are selling the 'toys' for ridiculous sums of money, you won't make any money.

3d printers are remarkable machines (as he hears his dog crunching some plastic reject pots behind him - pla isn't poisonous) and for inventing and designing and making your own models and plastic parts - just the best thing ever !

But decent volume production can't be done unless you're looking at multiple machines.

Even a small short print can take half an hour. Currently printing a foot for a weather station display that came without a stand. 6 gms going to take 25 minutes. And that's 0.3 layer and 70mm/s print speed.

Now I do recall a real frankenstein machine that claimed: 3d printer, injection moulder and either a laser cutter or cnc cutter all in one desktop sized beast.

Think it's still on a crowdfunding site. But that's the beast you want.

Here you go :-) http://3dprint.com/15381/tribot-3d-printer-cnc-mold/

Don't know where those print samples came from - but I've never printed anything that awful and there's no way in hell you should be getting output like that from an ultimaker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting

I think if you are trying to set up, what is essentially a production line, with a single desktop 3D printer to produced a smooth, injection molded like finish, then you might be being a little optimistic.

You can get very hi resolution printers that print in wax and can be used to make molds but as to printing models with a smooth clean finish, it is possible but it requires some finishing e.g. acetone baths for ABS models can produce a smooth finish and some materials like wood impregnated thermoplastics can be sanded and stained. It can also take several hours to print a model depending upon the layer resolution (more layers, finer the model but the longer it takes ) and the size of the model.

You cannot really produce a mass market product at the scale you are talking about, you would need to look at niche products that would have "added value" .

Keep your sites set on your end product goal and with that in mind choose the most appropriate manufacturing method. If the fact that is 3D printed is part of that added value of the product then you would need to investigate the suitableity of the products.

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I agree. A lot of people have dreams that just getting a printer will satisfy all their desires of striking it rich and starting their own business, but we are still in the hobby stage. FDM is also not conducive to mass production. Warranted you could just get a giant bed and queue a dozen objects at a time, but that is still prone to errors along with the sheer amount of time required to create prints.

If you are actually looking for mass production a much much better bet is to go to a company like ProtoLabs which can do small injection moulding runs for not a lot of money.

Since everyone else gave you the info on how long print's will take and such, I have been using the Flashforge Creator pro for a few month's now with very little to no problem's. It cost me $1450 new, but recently was looking at a "Powerspec 3d pro" at Microcenter, and it looks pretty identical to the FF creator pro, for $800. If I would have known, I would have preferred to pick up 2 powerspec's for around the same price I spent on one Flashforge.

But hey, I have not had any problems with the Flashforge, and the support they offer is great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_Man

This is where I am at myself. I have made myself somewhat knowledgeable but I could really use some advice too. I'm looking at 3 printers right now. I'm thinking Ultimaker 2, Flashforge Pro Creator, or a WanHao 5S Mini. Out of everything I have looked at, I am assuming those are the top of the list for the 1k to 3k price range. I'd just like to hear from some of the people here what their opinion is too.

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The ultimaker is an amazing machine. My friend has a flashforge which is great too, I don't know anything about the Wanhao. Also, you should throw a makergear M2 in there as it fit in the price range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xphoniex

I did my research but the info out there is little so I though I could use some help.


I want to run a small business operation, print new toys with the printer and then sell them but looking at the quality of some printers, I'm not sure if it's the right time to jump in, technology-wise.

What I'm looking for in the printer is ( in order ) :


+ Quality and Precision :

I was looking at the print samples of Ultimaker 2, ranked #3 by 3dhubs.com under Enthusiast category, and THIS is what I found. One can't simply sell that kind of thing. Seems like FDM technology is not what I should be looking into.

+ Scale-ability and Low Operating Cost :

I want a printer that can print fast. Also the material it uses need to be cheap. Given that I probably won't be able to print high quality stuff with ABS & PLA my only option might be Resin or other options. So, the least I could do is to choose a printer that can print FAST. correct me if I'm wrong.

+ Price :

Yup, that too. I'd prefer if I could keep it under $1000, $3000 is okay but anything over that I'm gonna have to look for investors.

For starters, I wanted to print some Danbos. The are flat for most parts and not curvy so printing them might not be actually that hard. Maybe I could use FDM to print them ?

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Phoenix, I have been down this route. As others have said 3D printing is still not really practical monetarily and time-wise. The cost of printing out a toy from a 3D printer is many times more then if you were to injection mold it by the thousands. You would have to factor in the time aspect more then anything. I also wanted to sell small toysand trinkets for a few dollars each. But when someone comes at you with an order of 100 bracelets, and you calculate it will take you a week to make them. Well there goes that idea. I've been there and it's part of learning what these machines CAN'T do.

I ordered a Duplicator 4S. It's also a Makerbot Replicator 2 clone just like the Flashforge Creator Pro. Supposedly more advanced from all the people I have asked due to being a newer model.

I'm a hobbyist, but I also do make stuff to sell. There is a huge industry in making items and offering up. Tons of people are still afraid to get into the 3D printing world and are more than happy to buy from those who have invested. The quality isn't there of course on most printers to just come right off the printer and send as is, but it doesn't take much to clean up. Time wise is just whatever you want to live with. If you cast, it takes 30 minutes or more for the item to cure. In most cases, printing is well within that or not much more time depending on the size of the item. I have gliders I sell that I was casting a part on. It would take me a full evening to get about 6 of them cast. I bought an UP! Mini and made the parts in 3D. I can pump out 10 in an evening. This new printer should allow even more.

You have to pick what you are doing and what to make your money on. If you haven't found a way to use a 3D printer to make money, you just haven't tried hard enough. It's not the only reason to own a 3D printer of course, but it's not an option I was closing the door on. The UP! Mini more than paid for it's self. I have no doubt the Duplicator will as well. I have another item that I already had people wanting. It was going to be a cast item, but it will now be 3D printed.

Determining the right printer I have found to be a hard thing. There are so many people out there with different printers and like or dislike what they have. There is an equal amount of printers being sold that has no real data other than stats on paper. It's hard to research them and very hard to find a forum to ask questions on. I think I have it worked out though. This printer with my UP! Mini should be nice. I have an ibox on the way as well as a FLUX. I may look into one other one then each one will be assigned to specific tasks.

Printer Recommendation: Orion Delta (MFG: SeeMeCNC)
----------------- Why?: I've owned the printer for about 3-4mo's, run it 3-7days a week, and have had to give it little to no maintenance. Rock solid printer for the $1299 I had to spend on it. I've also run Flex EcoPLA and FilaFLEX through it, and I'm very impressed with the quality.

- The only way your going to get smooth and pretty prints with a filament type printer is to do some post processing work with them afterwords. Sandblasting and epoxy coatings work very well for making them more visually attractive.

I just couldn't go with the Rostock Max after I researched it. I was really looking heavy into that printer but every user print I saw just did not look like something I would say is better than I can already do. I had posted on their board and had the hope that one of the developers would have came in and posted. Never seen any one other than the buyers. I saw some of the Orion prints as well. I'm getting about the same quality print from my UP! Mini as any image I was shown. I'm not saying SeeMeCNC's products are bad, not at all. There just was no need in me buying something that gave the same print that I had when I was looking for better. I'm at 200 microns, and most everyone was showing me 200 to 300 micron printed items. Everyone said they rarely use the 100 micron option which didn't sit well with me and was a main factor in my decision.

Now I have no idea on comparing the Duplicator 4S with the Rostock, or even the Orion. All I know is from all of the recommendations and the abilities I saw it would offer, that seemed like the best option for me at this particular time. My goal with a new printer is making some hand 3D sculpted prop replicas that I originally was going to hand make from wood and cast. One item I have made from wood, but just never got the casting right. Granted my hope with looking at the Rostock was that I could have done the items as a solid piece and I will have to divide it up on the Duplicator 4S, but I will see how the quality is once it is in hand.

Vapor treatment will work great to smooth something like this, and then multiple layers of paint treatments will build it up the rest of the way. I've already been doing this using my UP! mini with fine results, just on a smaller scale. I've even just gone straight paint and done well too. Many times it's not required to have something extremely smooth. When I do get to that point, I hope to invest in one of the resin printers that does real high quality. I do have the ibox coming, and I'll see how that does.