Can FTD resin with 0.5% shrinkage be used as Peachy Juice?

After reading the forum I think current resin that is going to be used for Peachy Juice can have shrinkage up to 8%. That's a lot, especially on larger prints. I wonder, did anybody tried with current Peachy prototype FTD resin? I do not know about its surface tension, but its viscosity seems to be similar to MakerJuice G+ resin. Its cost seems to be reasonable, €45 per kg (almost 1L). By the way, what is acceptable surface tension for Peachy Printer? For example, MakerJuice G+ resin have 36.5 dyn/cm surface tension.

The reason I ask is because I'm considering to preorder Peachy Printer, but I feel hesitant to preorder Peachy Juice because of its extreme shrinkage. I realize that it can be partially compensated by software, but I think that using a resin with more than order of magnitude less shrinkage could improve print quality, especially for prints that are not small.

So my question is, will be I able to use third-party resin as "Peachy Juice", assuming its surface tension is within acceptable range? Clearly, this may require somewhat different calibration and settings, so in order for this to be possible software needs to allow to make necessary adjustments.

Also, it may be worth considering to officially reselling different resins as more than one kind of Peachy Juice (so they could be used out-of-the-box by more people), it's not just about shrinkage, resins can also differ in flexibility, temperatures they can withstand after curing, etc. Some UV-curable resins can be used to make high-temp resistant parts or even molds for metal casting.

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Originally Posted by /dev/null

After reading the forum I think current resin that is going to be used for Peachy Juice can have shrinkage up to 8%. That's a lot, especially on larger prints. I wonder, did anybody tried with current Peachy prototype FTD resin? I do not know about its surface tension, but its viscosity seems to be similar to MakerJuice G+ resin. Its cost seems to be reasonable, €45 per kg (almost 1L). By the way, what is acceptable surface tension for Peachy Printer? For example, MakerJuice G+ resin have 36.5 dyn/cm surface tension.

The reason I ask is because I'm considering to preorder Peachy Printer, but I feel hesitant to preorder Peachy Juice because of its extreme shrinkage. I realize that it can be partially compensated by software, but I think that using a resin with more than order of magnitude less shrinkage could improve print quality, especially for prints that are not small.

So my question is, will be I able to use third-party resin as "Peachy Juice", assuming its surface tension is within acceptable range? Clearly, this may require somewhat different calibration and settings, so in order for this to be possible software needs to allow to make necessary adjustments.

Also, it may be worth considering to officially reselling different resins as more than one kind of Peachy Juice (so they could be used out-of-the-box by more people), it's not just about shrinkage, resins can also differ in flexibility, temperatures they can withstand after curing, etc. Some UV-curable resins can be used to make high-temp resistant parts or even molds for metal casting.

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I have become increasingly convinced that the surface tension can be mitigated by floating a 'thin' layer of pure water on top of the resin. So you have brine in the normal way, then resin and then on top of the resin, say 0.5 cm of pure water i.e. 3 layers.

my guess would be that it could be possible to use ANY UV setting liquid resin, just might have to play with the beam speeds during the print if te resin is slower curing than the peachy juice

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Originally Posted by harpo99999

my guess would be that it could be possible to use ANY UV setting liquid resin, just might have to play with the beam speeds during the print if te resin is slower curing than the peachy juice

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Thanks, I'm glad to hear that trying out other resins should be possible.

But was there any reason to choose resin with 8% shrinkage for Paechy Juice? I guess higher the surface tension, worse the resolution and quality will be. So, it would be nice to know what's the surface tension of current Peachy Juice in dyn/cm? At the moment I have no idea if official Peachy Juice is just typical resin or is it a resin with exceptionally low surface tension. If somebody could answer this I would be very grateful.

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Originally Posted by mike_biddell

I have become increasingly convinced that the surface tension can be mitigated by floating a 'thin' layer of pure water on top of the resin. So you have brine in the normal way, then resin and then on top of the resin, say 0.5 cm of pure water i.e. 3 layers.

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This is interesting idea, but probably software will need to take refraction into account to prevent precision loss. Some loss of precision may still happen, but if surface tension was causing more problems, overall precision may improve (or may become worse, it is hard to tell without experimenting).

Does anyone officially know wither the Peachy works with heat or photo cured resin (ir or uv)?
Also mike I cant see the water working as anything other than their word "hack", unless you have old degraded resin. I threw in a comment to the team through Rylan and havent heard a thing on it yet. Personally I need the head if the main product comes out with good reviews, but I would then try and build a Peachy bench for printing consistently instead of the over mount method. The resin cost has me drawn back personally though a 100 dollar toy could happen for me once or twice a year.

as the laser used by the peachy IS UV (405nm) so any UV resin should work

I have found the MakerJuice Substance G datasheet. It has 8% shrinkage too, like Peachy Juice. I will not be surprised if other Peachy Juice properties turn out to be similar or even identical. Also, after rereading some topics in the forum, I have found this:

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Originally Posted by rylangrayston

We have printed with a wider variety of resins now and there is much good news from this.
For one it seems that all of the resins that maker juice sells will work well with the peachy printer,
and also some of them work better! These findings are worthy of an update, so Ill leave the details out for now.

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I think that this implies that MakerJuice resins have similar or lower surface tension than Peachy Juice. MakerJuice Substance G+ have almost 37 dyn/cm surface tension. So I guess Peachy Juice surface tension is within 30-40 dyn/cm range, possibly close to 33.5 dyn/cm, if it is similar to Substance G. The datasheets do not mention the temperature for specified surface tension, but I guess it's either 20°C or 25°C. I also guess that any UV-curable resin which has less than 40 dyn/cm surface tension is likely to work with Peachy Printer. In case surface tension for some resin is too high at room temperature, heating resin in order to reduce its surface tension may be an option for some people who do not mind adding heater, temperature sensor and some kind of controller to keep temperature steady.

Obviously, all of above is just a guess. Ideally, Peachy Juice needs to have its own datasheet, because currently it is not clear why I or anyone else would even consider to buy it when so many other resins are available. Another problem is that Peachy Juice is offered only in 1L bottles, but I can purchase 300mL of FTD resin from local distributor (which is funtodo.ru in my case). Hopefully, Peachy team will give us more information about other resins they have tested and who should consider buying Peachy Juice and why. I also hope thay consider my idea to offer many different kinds of resins, because one single resin for everything is not enough...

For now, after a lot of thinking, I have decided to try FTD Industrial Blend first (obviously, not right now, but when I actually get Peachy Printer). It is hard (75 Shore D Hardness), has just 0.5% shrinkage, and it is good to use within -45°C to +225°C temperature range. Unfortunately, it's surface tension is unknown (I was not able to find it anywhere), but that's the risk I'm willing to take, especially because I can buy just 300mL to try it out. Also, it's viscosity at room temperature is similar to MakerJuice G+ substance, so I think there is good chance its surface tension is within acceptable range.

Hey /dev/null,

As far as I understood, the Peachy Juice is indeed almost identical to the Maker Juice and also manufactured by the same guys.
The only differences are that because of Peachy being a top-down printer rather than a bottom-up, the formula could be changed a little making it perform worse in certain properties which the Peachy Printer isn't too sensitive to and better in other properties (maybe cheaper?).

Regarding different resin-types:
I had expected you to do some research before posting:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...c/posts/612202

* Actually that information about different types of resin is even on the start page of the Kickstarter if you scroll down..

Currently those other two resins (flex & wiggle) are still prototypes but I hope they are going to bring that topic back up some time ;)

Greetings, quertz

I saw their Kickstarter page, but it was very long time ago, so I either missed this part or forgot. But I'm sure I did not read the post you have linked before, so thanks for that. I wonder what happened to their prototypes? Hopefully they will continue working on them after Peachy Printer release. I think that if they would (re)sell many different kinds of resins in different quantities (for example, 250/300mL, 500mL, 1L, gallon) they could make more money, even if their resins will not be something special, many people still will prefer to buy officially supported resins. But I guess since they are already overwhelmed by number of pre-orders, they are not interested at the moment to increase number of pre-orders even farther. This maybe also the reason why they decided not to pre-sell wiggly and flexible resins and choose to offer PeachyJuice in only 1L bottles.

I have contacted FTD about their resins, and asked them how likely that their resins will work with Peachy Printer and if they know exact figures for surface tension. They told me that their resins can be used with top down printers which use either laser (like Peachy) or DLP. Here are relevant parts of their reply about surface tension:

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We haven't got any exact figures about the surface tension yet.
The surface tension of the IB, CB and especially the SW is perfect for top down printing.

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I guess "perfect" here means "good".

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The surface tension of Snow White as well as Deep black is the lowest of all the blends we have.

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Here is a nice table to summarize what we know so far:

Resin	Surface tension, dyn/cm	Shore D hardness	Viscosity, cP	Shrinkage
MakerJuice Substance G	33.5	75	25	8%
MakerJuice Substance G+	36.5	75	90	3.3%
FTD Castable Blend	Medium	73	85	0.5%
FTD Industrial Blend	Medium	75	95	0.5%
FTD Standard Blend	Medium	35	100	0.5%
FTD Snow White	Lowest	83	80	0.5%
FTD Deep Black	Lowest	81	80	0.5%

As already was mentioned, MakerJuice Substance G is most likely similar to PeachyJuice. Also, rylangrayston wrote that "all of the resins that maker juice sells will work well with the peachy printer", so we know that 90 cP viscosity is acceptable, and a bit higher is probably OK too. The viscosity in the table is determined at a temperature 25C for FTD resins and at 20C for MakerJuice resins. For people who do not know what Shore D hardness means, here is easy to understand picture.

So, what "medium", etc. surface tension actually means in the table above? We do not know that exactly yet. But I can try to make educated guess, but please keep in mind that it might be wrong. Even resins not intended for 3D printing sometimes have surface tension close to 40 dyn/cm. So, my guess is that most (or perhaps all) FTD resins have surface tension below 40 dyn/cm. But again, this is just a guess.

Since in most cases I will prefer to print opaque parts, FTD Snow White looks to me like a good choice for a first try. They also give "free" pigment to color the resin, so I will be able to print parts in white color + some other color of my choosing. If Snow White will work as expected, I may consider buying Standard Blend to print "softer" parts (hopefully it will work well with Peachy Printer). To actually try anything, I need Peachy Printer which I do not have yet, so I have to wait some time before I can experiment.

Some people may ask "if FTD resins are so good should I buy them instead of PeachyJuice?". Answer is, we do not know yet. Even if we did know exact figures for surface tension, answer would be the same. Somebody has to actually try FTD resin first with Peachy Printer to determine if results are actually good.

Hey Dragin.sh,

wow, thanks for that post; good research you did there...

This thread has a lot of useful information now, thanks to everyone who posted. I made farther research in attempt to find notable pros and cons of different resins.

All FTD resins are opaque, but in Peachy gallery prints are transparent. I did not think much about this at first because there are "unpigmented" FTD Industrial and Standard Blends. I wrote to FTD about this, and they answered that pigmentation is needed to prevent "light bleeding". As far as I understand, FTD offers only opaque pigments. I guess that means FTD resins are better for opaque prints, but not transparent ones like with PeachyJuice (I assume that examples in Peachy gallery are printed with it). Another thing they said is that color of Standard unpigmented resin is clear light yellow, Industrial Blend is slightly lighter in color, and natural color of the Standard Blend will influence lighter pigmentation colors.

Assuming FTD resins will work well with Peachy Printer, this is my current opinion what resin to choose depending on what you want the most. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong about something or if you have some useful information to add...

If you want your prints to be...	then consider...	Comment
glassy transparent	PeachyJuice	Officially supported resin, available in many colors
opaque, optionally colorful	FTD Snow White	Comes with free color pigment
high temp resistant	FTD Industrial Blend	Can withstand up to 225C
more flexible and less brittle	FTD Standard Blend
used for casting metals with high melting point	FTD Casting Blend
highest possible precision and deep black color	FTD Deep Black

Random notes:

• How strong and stiff FTD Industrial Blend is? Check this video to see how much stress it can take before it breaks. Stiffness of PeachyJuice is similar, not sure how much stress it can take though. Standard Blend will be less brittle and more flexible than this.
• Most resins are not intended to withstand high temperatures, and may become soft even around 100C if not sooner.
• Castable resin, even though it is intended for casting iron, bronze and other very hot metals, is not high temp resistant, it is intended for investment casting.
• FTD Industrial Blend may be used to make molds for metal casting with low melting point (example by someone casting metal to 3D printed mold).
• This website mentiones shelf life for FTD resins is about 1-1.5 years, depending on storage conditions, but PeachyJuice "is best used within 6 months of arrival".
• It may be possible to use transparent dies (like these) to give FTD Standard and Industrial Blends transparent glassy look, similar to what we can see in Peachy gallery. But I'm not sure, I could not find any photos to confirm this.
• Peachy Printer is not as precise as much more expensive printers, so FTD Deep Black may not give any visible improvement. In this case, buying Snow White with black pigment may be better choice, because you will get two colors instead of one.
• Table above does not mention MakerJuice G+ and SF resins because I could not think of any use for them. If somebody knows why they could be better than FTD resins for some specific purpose, feel free to comment.

Snow white + pigments will get you more than 2 colors because of gray version with only a little portion of pigments. On the other hand, i think you wont get a realy black black...

It's like with 2D printer: if you have two basic colors (white paper and black ink), you can get many shades of gray in between. If you have "ink" (pigment) of 4 basic colors + white resin, you can get pretty much any color you want by mixing them right. FTD actually offers pigment set with 4 colors for €12.50.

Deep Black should be darker than Snow White + black pigment. But Deep Black is 20% more expensive and its color cannot be changed.

Just droping in to say how much I love this thread, wish I could spend more time Replying here, but producing printers is my top priority right now and the machine that makes the aluminum dampers is broken again, so Im off to the lathe to fix that.... ether way I dug up this response I wrote in an faq, that applies to the conversation here:
"
Can you use 3rd party resins with the Peachy Printer?

Yes.
We have worked hard to make the printer and software easily accept other resins. That dose not mean that every resin out there will work although we haven't tried one that dosent work yet.
- The software has specific features for testing out the exposure needed by a unique resin ( cure rate test)
- The software has an over ride laser power feature, so you can set a different power level than called for by gcode.
- The Circuit has a common laser diode socket, so you can easily change your 405 nm laser diode to a different diode better suited for curing your 3rd party resin.
If you do try a new resin with peachy printer be sure to post about your experience in the forums as many people will be excited to here about it.
"

We really haven't tested enough resins here at peachy yet, I think it is very likely that once we ship some v1 printers someone will experiment with 3rd party resins That will work much much better, and we will simply let that process of discovery set the next "standard" or "officially recommended " resin.

This new resin should work. (ceramic!)
http://www.gizmag.com/3d-printing-st...84561-90094333

I emailed that link to Makerjuice. I hope they make some, instead of Form 1 buying it and charging a zillion dollars a liter for it.

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Originally Posted by iplayfast

This new resin should work. (ceramic!)
http://www.gizmag.com/3d-printing-st...84561-90094333

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It is exciting but maybe not as easy as getting the resin. Reading their original patent it sounds like a special printer is still needed. Another article talks of firing in the presence of a Argon to change the chemicals, so I couldn't just buy a mini-kiln.
Patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8435438.pdf
Article with a bit more http://www.opentronics.it/OTJ/feeds/...-1-400-degrees

Adding argon to a kiln is a simple matter of driving to your local welding supply, picking up a tank, and piping it up. I never saw anything about needing a special printer, and I can't find it in either of your links. Maybe I just skimmed over it. How special could their printer be? It costs $3k, which is absolutely nothing for an SLA printer. I believe that would be considered entry level.

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Originally Posted by Anuvin

How special could their printer be?

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The microstructure grows into an exact pattern made by the laser intersections. Imagine every link of a lattice is a direction of a laser beam curing that node. Reminds me of crystallography in reverse. Plus its a patent forcing exclusivity of that technique.

That structure may be hard to print, or even impossible, without that printer. But the resin itself, the implication from their video is that the resin will be useful in instances other than their patented architecture.

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Originally Posted by Anuvin

But the resin itself, the implication from their video is that the resin will be useful in instances other than their patented architecture.

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I agree the video makes it sound like all similar printers can use the technique. Maybe things have moved on in their research since the 2013 patent.

A whole category of materials just arrived with interesting engineering properties. Whatever the restrictions its still incredibly exciting.

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Originally Posted by /dev/null

After reading the forum I think current resin that is going to be used for Peachy Juice can have shrinkage up to 8%. That's a lot, especially on larger prints. I wonder, did anybody tried with current Peachy prototype FTD resin? I do not know about its surface tension, but its viscosity seems to be similar to MakerJuice G+ resin. Its cost seems to be reasonable, €45 per kg (almost 1L). By the way, what is acceptable surface tension for Peachy Printer? For example, MakerJuice G+ resin have 36.5 dyn/cm surface tension.

The reason I ask is because I'm considering to preorder Peachy Printer, but I feel hesitant to preorder Peachy Juice because of its extreme shrinkage. I realize that it can be partially compensated by software, but I think that using a resin with more than order of magnitude less shrinkage could improve print quality, especially for prints that are not small.

So my question is, will be I able to use third-party resin as "Peachy Juice", assuming its surface tension is within acceptable range? Clearly, this may require somewhat different calibration and settings, so in order for this to be possible software needs to allow to make necessary adjustments.

Also, it may be worth considering to officially reselling different resins as more than one kind of Peachy Juice (so they could be used out-of-the-box by more people), it's not just about shrinkage, resins can also differ in flexibility, temperatures they can withstand after curing, etc. Some UV-curable resins can be used to make high-temp resistant parts or even molds for metal casting.

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Hey Thanks for the suggestion we finally got some FTD Snow White and tested it. You can read about it here: http://peachyprinter.ipbhost.com/ind...w-white-blend/

Oh and a big thanks to Dragon.sh who contacted FTD and then posted some great info.