[Trinus] Printer started getting a problem, what could be wrong?

Hello! A strange problem occured which I don't know the cause of.

I've been printing with this PLA filament every day for a few weeks now without a problem, ~8 hour prints at 190°C with heatbed at 60°C.
I use Marker tape for better gripping on the bed.

So I was printing a model and it all went fine for the first 3 hours. Then it just stopped printing normally and made a thready mess on top of that.
And ever since, when I try to print something it creates the same mess from start.

As you can see in the image, top is first layers, bottom is what it will produce after a while.
https://i.imgur.com/ihnOaO5.jpg

Do you have any clues what could be the problem? I've googled but didn't find any definite cause, so I'd like to ask for some directions before I spend alot of hours trying to figure it out...

Thanks in advance!

Could be a blocked nozzle.
Something in the filament got stuck partway in the nozzle.

Looks like a metallic filament type so a random metal fleck could well cause it.

I don't think so, I opened it up and made sure nothing was in the way. I manually pushed a bit of filament through to clear out eventual junk but the problem persists.

I tested printing with an open printhead to see what was going on inside while printing. It makes a bumping noise all the time (which it hasn't done before) and that noise is the fillament being retracted a bit. I thought it should only do that before traveling or moving up a layer. But it's doing it continually while drawing a line. This makes the line interupted, as you can see in the upper image, the line has thick and thin parts.

I think this might be the problem, it doesn't seem like it should do that and it didn't do that before as far as I know. At least I didn't hear that sound before. So with no line being continious it means it will build up in to a mess, because it tried to build lines with holes in them on top of lines with holes. This is my hypothesis.

Video: https://expirebox.com/download/5c564...d7cf8fda6.html

So why does it do this... as my friend told me the Trinus corrupts the SD card if it's pulled out while the Trinus is on. I accidentally did that a few times, so it might be corrupted, so perhaps that's why it is behaving strange. I use Simpify3D and my new file does not have any other settings. I tried to print old prints that has worked before but the share this behaviour.

I will try printing with USB cable instead of SD card to see if this helps. If it does then the SD card is the problem.
Otherwise the problem remains unsolved.

EDIT: Printing with USB cable did not solve the problem............. :/

reset the firmware on the machine maybe. Always worth a shot, usually a menu option to do it.

Other than that - I guess run down the obvious: check all wires and connections, does the laser engraver still work as normal, format the sd card, and use a different one as well.
Check the retraction settings on s3d.
If you feed filament through from the control panel is it still doing it - in which case, assuming wiring is sound, probably the extruder stepper motor has gone tits up.

Also check if there is a spare extruder motor connector on the board (should be, most can be configured for 2 extruders) and try that - making sure to tell s3d you're using device 1 not 0.

Basically a trouble shooting logic tree.

Hello again!

Before I've been printing at 190°C at 120% speed for hours with no problem.
I tried to put speed at 100% and temperature to 210°C, now it printed the model without making a mess. But there's still a problem,
the infill is VERY weak, making the model not rigid at all. It keeps the form but I could easily crush it or rip it apart.

Image:
https://i.imgur.com/CZAgS2l.png

The infill is messy and it skips layers.

Question 1)
How can I fix this? I will try lowering the speed even more.

Question 2)
Why do I have to change the settings when it worked for at least 100 print hours before?

The infill looks very similar to this:
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/p...g/#weak-infill

And my previous mess looked a bit like this:
https://all3dp.com/1/common-3d-print...nder-extrusion

So then I guess underextrusion is the problem, due to some weird reason...

I had this happen, and low and behold some how my filament side had been changes form 1.75mm to 3.0mm changed it back to 1.75mm.
Did a Printer reset to factory settings, and the problem went away.

Just a suggestion.

My Print should have been almost solid.

Attachment 11271

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roberts_Clif

I had this happen, and low and behold some how my filament side had been changes form 1.75mm to 3.0mm changed it back to 1.75mm.
Did a Printer reset to factory settings, and the problem went away.

Just a suggestion.

My Print should have been almost solid.

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You mean the settings in your file was randomly set to 3 mm? I had a look but my settings in Simplify3D is still 1.75 mm.
Which printer do you use? How should reset printer to factory settings work?

I was using different Slicers, Getting to know them and somehow it placed a 3.00 filament size into the printers defaults. Every time I rebooted it thought filament was 3.00mm.

Resting to firmware defaults restores the firmware's settings.

Do not know if this is your problem, was just putting out information I had experienced..

Tried to print with slower speed, 60%, did not solve the problem. Tried to turn off retractions in the settings, did not work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roberts_Clif

I was using different Slicers, Getting to know them and somehow it placed a 3.00 filament size into the printers defaults. Every time I rebooted it thought filament was 3.00mm.

Resting to firmware defaults restores the firmware's settings.

Do no know if this is your problem, was just putting out information I had experienced..

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I see, thanks for the info :) I don't think that is what happened here though, but you never know... will keep investigating.

Found a video that shows exactly what happens inside:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXe3XhbJs8

The video show the extruder is not extruding the filament the clicking noise is do to missing steps.
This could be because you need to calibrate the extruder or most likely the nozzle needs to be hotter to extrude the filament.

I have two 3D Printers one works at 192C the other works at 202C they are the same 3DP printers.
Try to increase the nozzle temp too 198C see if that works better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roberts_Clif

The video show the extruder is not extruding the filament the clicking noise is do to missing steps.
This could be because you need to calibrate the extruder or most likely the nozzle needs to be hotter to extrude the filament.

I have two 3D Printers one works at 192C the other works at 202C they are the same 3DP printers.
Try to increase the nozzle temp too 198C see if that works better.

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I tried 190-240 degrees, and 20-120% speed. Before I've printed at 190 degrees at 120% with no problems. The only combination I found working now was >235 degrees and <40% speed. Colder or faster will give me these missing steps.
I also found that pushing down the filament reduced the amount of missing steps.

This is after I cleaned the nozzle with a needle going all the way through.
I also moved the print bed down a bit without any results.

Could you please explain further what you mean by calibrate the extruder? Thanks!

How to Calibrate the Extruder

It could also be the PTFE lining in the Throat is deformed cause the filament not to be extruded. and the Stepper is clicking because the filament will not extrude.
I have replaced several throats because the lining deformed pushing into the nozzle, as shown in the photo.

Throat on left, Nozzle on right they are sitting inside my spare lead-screw nuts.
Attachment 11277

The PTFE lining pushed into the nozzle partially plugging it, and the PFTE lining was compress against the throat making the bottom of the PTFE lining 2.25mm.
Pressing the excess PTFE into the Nozzle making a insulating barrier that would not allow the filament to melt correctly.

Other times the lining just deformed causing the filament to get stuck inside the throat. Picture shows the worse case I have experienced.

Hi again, thanks for your answer!

What exactly is the PTFE lining? I disassembled the extruder. Looks like the tube leading town to the hotend is a bit bent. But that shouldn't create too much resistance for the filament to flow down?
Also, I can't change the nozzle, not sure why. As you can see in the two images to the right, there are filament leaking (?) between the parts, perhaps that's why the nozzle is stuck. I wonder if it's clogged inside. I can push the needle through without a problem. And it prints fine, with enough filament coming through. It's just that it skips steps all the time.

Image: https://i.imgur.com/JsWgAYL.png

Update: managed to remove the nozzle after heating it up. I looked inside the pipe and the nozzle. No clog. It was dirty on the outside.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by veclock

Hi again, thanks for your answer!

What exactly is the PTFE lining?

As you can see in the two images to the right, there are filament leaking, I wonder if it's clogged inside.

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Here is a PTFE Throat inside is a lining. this lining gets deformed.

What is happening is the filament is getting into a gap between the nozzle, throat and the heat block and staying too long and crystallizing, thereby clogging the filament path.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roberts_Clif

Here is a PTFE Throat inside is a lining. this lining gets deformed.

What is happening is the filament is getting into a gap between the nozzle, throat and the heat block and staying too long and crystallizing, thereby clogging the filament path.

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I don't seem to have a part like that. If it can be seen in my latest image, can you point out which one it is?

I printed at 240 degrees at 50% speed now for a few hours, it went ok. Until the filament didn't extrude any more and tangled up inside the print head. Had to drag out 50 cm filament from it afterwards. This is the second time that happens...
Then afterwards I manually push through some filament and it comes out perfectly. Such a mystery.................

This is the Tube I think is bad in your printer.
https://www.3dhubs.com/talk/thread/c...r-hot-end-tube

CTC 3D Printer Repair - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpR1ePfkMRQ

I use a Filament cleaner / dust remover / jam prevention
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:914607

I have had similar problems in 3 of my printers over the past months after long periods of heavy use. This was the extruder under-extruding (missing steps as I found out) on one printer, and the X or Y stepper missing steps (print suddenly shift several cm in x or y direction) on the the other two.

In all three cases it was the stepper motot cable that needed replacing. Apparently these cables are not up to continuous bending at stress points (cable ties used to fixate them) as the extruder head moves around.....

Replacing the cables with brand new ones resolved the issues in all 3 printers. I now do not use tight cable tie fixing for the cables but allow them to move more freely, preventing development (I hope) of weak spots in the cables.

Thanks again for the answers! I really appreciate it! :)

Some new info from my tests:

From the beginning it works good, starts to skip steps with certain settings (too cold and/or too fast). But even with settings that prevents the skipping, after a while it starts skip again. After a while it is clogged, and starts to gather filament inside of the print head.
So turns out it has trouble pushing it through the nozzle and eventually it's impossible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roberts_Clif

This is the Tube I think is bad in your printer.
https://www.3dhubs.com/talk/thread/c...r-hot-end-tube

CTC 3D Printer Repair - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpR1ePfkMRQ

I use a Filament cleaner / dust remover / jam prevention
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:914607

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You mean the hotend tube, right? In my printer that is made from steel:
https://eu.kodama3d.com/collections/...nt=36730352004

As you can see in this image (left image) it's a bit bent: https://i.imgur.com/JsWgAYL.png

First I thought that a small bend like that shouldn't be able to cause such problems. It can slide through fine even with a bend right?
But then I started thinking. Could it be that the filament touches the pipe because of the bend, and melts because the pipe is hot? Then it builds up over time.

If this is the case then I wonder why it doesn't skip steps with colder & slower settings. (After 2 hours it will begin skipping even with those settings)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alibert

I have had similar problems in 3 of my printers over the past months after long periods of heavy use. This was the extruder under-extruding (missing steps as I found out) on one printer, and the X or Y stepper missing steps (print suddenly shift several cm in x or y direction) on the the other two.

In all three cases it was the stepper motot cable that needed replacing. Apparently these cables are not up to continuous bending at stress points (cable ties used to fixate them) as the extruder head moves around.....

Replacing the cables with brand new ones resolved the issues in all 3 printers. I now do not use tight cable tie fixing for the cables but allow them to move more freely, preventing development (I hope) of weak spots in the cables.

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Interesting! Did you experience clogging as a result of this? And eventually totally clogged, resulting in filament gathering and coiling up inside the print head instead of extruding.

Quote:

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If this is the case then I wonder why it doesn't skip steps with colder & slower settings. (After 2 hours it will begin skipping even with those settings)

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Quote:

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http://3dprintboard.com/images/tf_id...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Alibert http://3dprintboard.com/images/tf_id...post-right.png
I have had similar problems in 3 of my printers over the past months after long periods of heavy use. This was the extruder under-extruding (missing steps as I found out) on one printer, and the X or Y stepper missing steps (print suddenly shift several cm in x or y direction) on the the other two.

In all three cases it was the stepper motot cable that needed replacing. Apparently these cables are not up to continuous bending at stress points (cable ties used to fixate them) as the extruder head moves around.....

Replacing the cables with brand new ones resolved the issues in all 3 printers. I now do not use tight cable tie fixing for the cables but allow them to move more freely, preventing development (I hope) of weak spots in the cables.



Interesting! Did you experience clogging as a result of this? And eventually totally clogged, resulting in filament gathering and coiling up inside the print head instead of extruding.

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No, I experienced skipped steps in the extruder (not enough plastic pushed out creating holes, bad fills, sometimes no plastic pushed out at all) and skipped steps in the X or Y directions (layers randomly shifting horizontally at random heights into the build).

In the extruder case, it would also happen that for some time the stepper skipped and no plastic was pushed out, and later on it would push out plastic again but into thin air as the underlyiing layer was partially missing giving all kinds of blobs and mess collecting around the nozzle.

Update:

Up until now I've printed with the heatbed set to 60 C. I turned it off, and was able to print at normal settings, 190C, 100% speed for two hours without clicking. Then the clicking started, I increased the temperature a bit, it stopped clicking but started again after a while. And after a bit longer it couldn't extrude at all again, filament started to bend instead of being fed into the extruder pipe. So I guess a clog built up somehow.

Update again:

Changed Nozzle to 0.6 instead of 0.4 and removed the fan duct, now it works again. No skipping.
But the mystery remains... will it start skipping again if I go back to 0.4...