Sore fingers, amazement, frustrations and hair spray: First days with my Creator Pro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdg56

I'll have to try that next time. I tend to print stuff all over the plate, moving from one corner to the other, to maximize the printing I can do before I have to wash it off and re-apply the glue stick. However, you are right, it might be easier to just do partial coverage.

Cheers,

John

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It was so painful for me replacing that whole sheet, I did it once a month or couple of months for 2 years..argh... and my wife lol, I used to get her to hold the roll tight while I laid it on the bed...(err that didn't come out right...:o)

anyway.... when I got into PLA more and wood etc I started using Blue tape...

Then I got lazy :p and when I put kapton back on... when i switched to blue tape once more, I left the kapton on, and put the blue tape over the kapton... Now this did 2 interesting things.. It gave me an extra insulation layer and the parts curl up even less more as they have a buffer between the heatbed now, the blue tape holds heat in too. And the second, was my prints are now 0.0.. whatever milimeters closer to the plate because of the double layer... so printing raftless WITH supports is now a breeze. I used to need a raft for the supports because they wouldnt stick to the bed well, but now thats not a problem.

I'll be honest, I use that combination now for ABS and PLA now for everything, if it's ABS I use the kids glue stick on the blue tape, and PLA just plain on the bed, no additional crap. I don't know if the 3M 3" Blue tape im using is anything special it's the only one I've really tried so far.

My local Lowe's has a few 'improved' types of 3M blue tape which are useless in the printer. I'm stocking up on the 'regular' tape so when they eventually [tinfoil_hat] cave in to the anti-3d-printing corporate manufacturist cartel and [/tinfoil_hat] stop making the 'good' stuff, I'll be able to carry on whilst we wait for quantum bed adhesion. :)

They don't seem to carry the 3" width, which is how I started experimenting with the 'new' versions.

My current addition to the gnome army (my office at work is a total playland of Things) is separating from the kapton tape in the freezer, but I'll definitely give the kapton+3M tape a try tomorrow.. This kapton is a bit scuffed. Will that affect using it along side blue tape, or can I experiment without having to replace it?

Cheers,

John

One thing I will say with tape of any kind.
Buy narrower rolls and use more strips.

I've got a20cm wide roll of kapton and it's just totally unmanageable.
The best use I've had out of it so far is to cut thin bits to attach my level aluminium plate to the original unlevel flashforge plate.

I did try using it to cover a glass plate and it's just too bloody wide.
Thought I was being clever buying a width that would do the plate in one go. Nope, definitely not clever :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

One thing I will say with tape of any kind.
Buy narrower rolls and use more strips.

I've got a20cm wide roll of kapton and it's just totally unmanageable.
The best use I've had out of it so far is to cut thin bits to attach my level aluminium plate to the original unlevel flashforge plate.

I did try using it to cover a glass plate and it's just too bloody wide.
Thought I was being clever buying a width that would do the plate in one go. Nope, definitely not clever :-)

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Damn, just bought a 23cm wide one XD

the problem is that the kapton tape is super sticky and seems to stick to itself in preference to anything else.
So just pulling a strip off a roll that wide, stretches it and deforms it. Then while you're trying to get it to stick to something else - it's doing it's best to stick to itself, crease, tear and fold.

I'm contemplating knocking up some kind of jig so i can cut the roll evenly into thinner strips.

***

Back to the bracelet - printed the normal size one (previous were short ones) with my adjusted catch. Now I don't know if this was related to the printer or simplify3d. But there are a couple of dodgy areas where filaments blobbed and some links that are fused. This is the first bracelet I've printed with simplify3d and the first issues of any kind I've had with any pla print.

That said the rest of the bracelet is fine and the catch looks better and is just as easy to use. And it did slice in a couple of minutes rather than a number of hours.
One thing with s3d - I can look at the gcode it generate alongside the x3g file to see if I didn't set the layer height to 0.27.

Short while later...

Quote:

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primaryExtruder,1
; layerHeight,0.2
; topSolidLayers,3
; bottomSolidLayers,3
; perimeterOutlines,2

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Yeah my fault. Should have been 2 layers all round and 0.27 layer height.
So considering that - it probably shouldn't have printed as well as it did :-)

Update on my progress- Finally got to print the first thing that I designed myself- yay! Here it is. It's for my daughter... I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I just need to play with the quality and see if I can get a little faster print without sacrificing too much smoothness. This took about 8 hours to print on 0.1 layer height.

Attachment 2987



All though I'm starting to feel a little limited by the size of the print bed. Have any of you done many prints where you attached pieces together to make a larger item? How did they turn out? What did you use to attach them? I am going to try experimenting with some various glues I guess... but it seems like most things roll off the abs without sticking really good.

..as to the Kapton tape..the huge wide rolls seem thinner & more prone to damage than the ~1/2" rolls for some reason.:(
Found an interesting method to dealing with the huge rolls on another forum. (need 3 pieces of ~1/2"dowel, ~12" long)
If one can eventually manage to unroll an inch or 3 off the roll ..intact (I stick it to the kitchen counter),
One sticks a dowel (~1/2 " or whatever diameter, aluminum or wood or..) - a few inches longer than the roll - under the leading edge and roll it up a bit.
The rolled dowel should be pretty much parallel with the main roll,..now carefully draw out the length you need for the bed and a few more inches, then put another dowel underneath the tape - about 1-2" out from roll of Kapton, making sure it's "stuck well".
Add a third dowel, stuck right next to the roll,..to pull the kapton off next time you need it (trust me, it works.. and saves you a lot of frustration)
Cut the kapton between the two dowels that are next to the roll (probably need a second person to help!)
Now you should have two dowels/sticks with a sheet of kapton in between. (good for capturing bugs or..):p
"I" heat the bed to ~50/60C- with the bed as low as it will go & carefully lay the Kapton on from one side to the other.
Lay it on & "squeegee" it with a piece of soft plastic or whatever..there may be bubbles, but they seem to work their way out after a few prints.
Only tried the water thing once,..it sucked..it's OK for vinyl applications/windows, but not a heated bed IMHO

As to sticking on Kapton, I always use the ABS glue (with MEK) and wipe it with MEK between prints.
Let the bed cool, drizzle on IPA, wait 30 seconds & bop the prints off with a maple stick & rubber hammer.

My 2 cents anyway.. :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

the problem is that the kapton tape is super sticky and seems to stick to itself in preference to anything else.
So just pulling a strip off a roll that wide, stretches it and deforms it. Then while you're trying to get it to stick to something else - it's doing it's best to stick to itself, crease, tear and fold.

I'm contemplating knocking up some kind of jig so i can cut the roll evenly into thinner strips.

***

Back to the bracelet - printed the normal size one (previous were short ones) with my adjusted catch. Now I don't know if this was related to the printer or simplify3d. But there are a couple of dodgy areas where filaments blobbed and some links that are fused. This is the first bracelet I've printed with simplify3d and the first issues of any kind I've had with any pla print.

That said the rest of the bracelet is fine and the catch looks better and is just as easy to use. And it did slice in a couple of minutes rather than a number of hours.
One thing with s3d - I can look at the gcode it generate alongside the x3g file to see if I didn't set the layer height to 0.27.

Short while later...



Yeah my fault. Should have been 2 layers all round and 0.27 layer height.
So considering that - it probably shouldn't have printed as well as it did :-)

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Yeah thats great it turned out, considering.... I may try that bigger one too. I could get the small one on, but it pinched pretty bad. :eek: Is PLA like ABS in that the manufacturer makes a difference in the quality? is there one you recommend? I'd like to get some to try. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serena

Yeah thats great it turned out, considering.... I may try that bigger one too. I could get the small one on, but it pinched pretty bad. :eek: Is PLA like ABS in that the manufacturer makes a difference in the quality? is there one you recommend? I'd like to get some to try. :)

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PLA and ABS completely different to work with Serena, but I have to say I really do like the look of printed PLA, it's shiny and looks sleek. It really is worth just getting a roll and trying it, get a nice bright colour.

ABS gives you more headaches with things lifting off the heatbed whereas PLA gives you headaches with the printing temperature.. too hot and the top layer raises up alot as it prints and get's messy, but over all I have to say for someone who was a total ABS fanatic, I really am finding myself loving PLA more. It is also very malleable, if you put PLA in hot water, it can be maniuplated into other shapes.

The way I look at it now, if it is a functional part, like a Gear, or print head or something that needs to be durable, I print in ABS, if it is an arty thing, busts, sculptures, toys etc, or very very large prints, I go with PLA just because it's easier to work with.

as far as quality goes - that chloe print would look just as good printed at 0.3 layer and 10 % infill.
Which would be MUCH faster :-)

Also if you rounded off the top - rather than keep it flat you could print it hollow. Much much quicker and way less plastic and it would look better and feel nicer.
I'm impressed you got that much abs to print without warping.

the slightly longer bracelet is better. And with the reduced size catch looks sleeker as well. I'll upload the stl when i get the chance.

But if you wnat to render the openscad file yourself here's the .scad file: Attachment 2994

Just load into openscad. Press the f6 key
wait about an hour till the picture of the bracelet shows up. Then click 'file' and export to .stl
Print :-)
My only real issue with openscad is the time it takes to render the more complicated files.

@geoff - for gears pla is better because it's harder and less prone to wear. Not so good if they get real hot - but apprently for wearing it's a lot better.

So are you selling just the plastic parts or complete kossel kits ?
I thinm we're nearly at the point where I want to try building one from scratch. Just ordering the right bits thats the issue as I have no idea which bits works best and are cheapest :-)

MY mate can do any soldering and understands electrickery, And I can make the bits and scrounge the aluminium (hopefully)
We've got to redesign the control and arm rest setup for a friend of mine's electric wheelchair first - but after that I reckon we could try for a delta :-)

Have some trouble writing ABS with my Pro. It won't stick properly, I've tried kapton & blue tape.

Could it be that my heatbed isn't hot enough?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoff

PLA and ABS completely different to work with Serena, but I have to say I really do like the look of printed PLA, it's shiny and looks sleek. It really is worth just getting a roll and trying it, get a nice bright colour.

ABS gives you more headaches with things lifting off the heatbed whereas PLA gives you headaches with the printing temperature.. too hot and the top layer raises up alot as it prints and get's messy, but over all I have to say for someone who was a total ABS fanatic, I really am finding myself loving PLA more. It is also very malleable, if you put PLA in hot water, it can be maniuplated into other shapes.

The way I look at it now, if it is a functional part, like a Gear, or print head or something that needs to be durable, I print in ABS, if it is an arty thing, busts, sculptures, toys etc, or very very large prints, I go with PLA just because it's easier to work with.

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Yeah that's what I'm noticing is the brightness of the colors on the PLA looks really good. And I will be printing mostly decorative things. Except the cookie cutters which need to be dishwasher safe. Definitely going to get some. I'm off to amazon.com! :-)


[QUOTE=curious aardvark;29800]as far as quality goes - that chloe print would look just as good printed at 0.3 layer and 10 % infill.
Which would be MUCH faster :-)

Also if you rounded off the top - rather than keep it flat you could print it hollow. Much much quicker and way less plastic and it would look better and feel nicer.
I'm impressed you got that much abs to print without warping.
/QUOTE]

The rounded top is a great idea! Now to figure out how to get blender to listen to me....... ;-)

Stigern- I will let the experts answer more since I am totally new, but I can say that so far I've had success printing abs with my bed between 225-230. I had trouble sticking early on though, due to my bed not being level. I think it was too far from the nozzle and it wouldn't stick. Many gave me great advice earlier in this thread if you want to scroll back. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serena

Stigern- I will let the experts answer more since I am totally new, but I can say that so far I've had success printing abs with my bed between 225-230. I had trouble sticking early on though, due to my bed not being level. I think it was too far from the nozzle and it wouldn't stick. Many gave me great advice earlier in this thread if you want to scroll back. :)

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225,230 C on the bed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

@geoff - for gears pla is better because it's harder and less prone to wear. Not so good if they get real hot - but apprently for wearing it's a lot better.

So are you selling just the plastic parts or complete kossel kits ?
I thinm we're nearly at the point where I want to try building one from scratch. Just ordering the right bits thats the issue as I have no idea which bits works best and are cheapest :-)

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PLA is stiffer but nowhere near as strong as ABS for a gear I find, sorry you can't convert me, and i've been doing this a fair bit longer than you mate :p PLA gears are rigid yes, seem great .. but have zero stress tolerance, warp over time (no matter how well you printed it to start with) and have more of a tendency to snap off small segments from stress fractures, like gear teeth.

I sell both complete kits and parts, in ABS or PLA it depends on what they want, end effector, zprobe holder and gears always in ABS. I prefer to have peace of mind knowing i've sold someone an end effector that wont melt to buggery during a print.

@ Stigern..

Get a kids Glue stick, use some of that on the blue tape if you are having stick issues, but at 110c hotbed, it should not be having issues sticking really.

Is it lifting straight away or after a while?

Oops sorry- that's the extruder temp. Bed is between 106-110c.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoff

PLA is stiffer but nowhere near as strong as ABS for a gear I find, sorry you can't convert me, and i've been doing this a fair bit longer than you mate :p PLA gears are rigid yes, seem great .. but have zero stress tolerance, warp over time (no matter how well you printed it to start with) and have more of a tendency to snap off small segments from stress fractures, like gear teeth.

I sell both complete kits and parts, in ABS or PLA it depends on what they want, end effector, zprobe holder and gears always in ABS. I prefer to have peace of mind knowing i've sold someone an end effector that wont melt to buggery during a print.

@ Stigern..

Get a kids Glue stick, use some of that on the blue tape if you are having stick issues, but at 110c hotbed, it should not be having issues sticking really.

Is it lifting straight away or after a while?

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Straight away, I'm gonna level my build plate again, and try some more. Maybe enclose my printer better. Haven't attached the top acrylic cover yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stigern

Straight away, I'm gonna level my build plate again, and try some more. Maybe enclose my printer better. Haven't attached the top acrylic cover yet.

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Ok if it is lifting straight away, we have a bed level issue, not an ABS issue. If you have the bed at 110c, the ABS should no matter what, be sticking well for at least the first 10-20 layers or so

If you have Blue tape, here is a good trick to get you going..

Add another layer of blue tape on top of whatever you have there, so you have 2 layers... heat the bed to 112c when you print, you will see a big difference. The extra tape saves you re-levelling the bed also, its a band aid fix but tells you if you are on the right track or not.

Quote:

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PLA is stiffer but nowhere near as strong as ABS for a gear I find, sorry you can't convert me, and i've been doing this a fair bit longer than you mate :p PLA gears are rigid yes, seem great .. but have zero stress tolerance, warp over time (no matter how well you printed it to start with) and have more of a tendency to snap off small segments from stress fractures, like gear teeth.

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lol true. I was just going by soemone who was running gears with a drill. reckoned the pla stood up better.
I will bow to your greater experience :-)

Had a look at the creator pro specs.

Quote:

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Key features and improvements:
- Sturdy metal frame is substantially more stable than the Creator's original wood frame.
- Warp-resistant 6.3mm aluminum build platform remains perfectly level under the stress of high heat.
- New heat-resistant metal platform supports replace plastic supports.
- New heavy-duty (10mm) z-axis guide rod ensures steady and precise movement.
- New acrylic cover encloses the chamber to insulate and protect ABS prints.
- New LED light illuminates the build chamber..

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I can see why you're getting better abs results than I do :-)
I haven't got any of that stuff lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

- Sturdy metal frame is substantially more stable than the Creator's original wood frame.
- Warp-resistant 6.3mm aluminum build platform remains perfectly level under the stress of high heat.
- New heat-resistant metal platform supports replace plastic supports.
- New heavy-duty (10mm) z-axis guide rod ensures steady and precise movement.
- New acrylic cover encloses the chamber to insulate and protect ABS prints.
- New LED light illuminates the build chamber..

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Now you would think that with all that, it would have improved things. Now, I don't know why but you would think that if I can do it without hassle on my caveman-flashforge-3d-wooden-casket of a machine, you would think with all the improvements, that printing ABS would be easier for you, but it's not.

I will spend some considerable time this weekend doing ABS vs PLA tests

Did another try with ABS, got it working!

But, I had a hard time removing the raft. Still some left on my model. Tried another print increasing raft offset, separation and lowering infill to 30%. Got some sag on my lines. But easier to remove the raft :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stigern

Did another try with ABS, got it working!

But, I had a hard time removing the raft. Still some left on my model. Tried another print increasing raft offset, separation and lowering infill to 30%. Got some sag on my lines. But easier to remove the raft :)

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Yeah, I have some ABS that just doesn't come off well, but that also was ReplicatorG. Makerware does a much better rafting job, it peels off like a single sheet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoff

Now you would think that with all that, it would have improved things. Now, I don't know why but you would think that if I can do it without hassle on my caveman-flashforge-3d-wooden-casket of a machine, you would think with all the improvements, that printing ABS would be easier for you, but it's not.

I will spend some considerable time this weekend doing ABS vs PLA tests

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Nice! That will be really interesting to see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stigern

Did another try with ABS, got it working!

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Yay!

Today's print took just under 12 hours- needed lots of supports which removed pretty cleanly. I do feel like I see imperfections more in this dark blue color. Also- it turned out really shiny. Not sure why- is it just the design? Anyway, I'm very happy with the level of detail you can get from the flashforge.

Attachment 3002

Attachment 3004

Attachment 3001

Attachment 3003

Anyone know how I rotate pics? Also, on that last one- see the roughness from the supports I removed? I tried sanding it and I feel like it looked worse. Maybe I need finer sandpaper... do you guys ever sand your pieces?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serena

Nice! That will be really interesting to see.


Yay!

Today's print took just under 12 hours- needed lots of supports which removed pretty cleanly. I do feel like I see imperfections more in this dark blue color. Also- it turned out really shiny. Not sure why- is it just the design? Anyway, I'm very happy with the level of detail you can get from the flashforge.


Anyone know how I rotate pics? Also, on that last one- see the roughness from the supports I removed? I tried sanding it and I feel like it looked worse. Maybe I need finer sandpaper... do you guys ever sand your pieces?

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Looks good! What settings did you use for it?

You always see imperfections better on darker and/or glossier colors. That's why I never trust printers (or painters) that only show white and/or matte products..
I prefer printing in glossy dark blue PLA. Gives me a very good visual of what settings I need to tweak to get better results.

I have filed a print sometimes, never used sandpaper (sandpapering small things with my large fingers is not doable.) But from what I've heard; sanding PLA is a bit more difficult then lots of other material. Just start with 200-300 grit and gradually move up to 1000.
But if possible; try making support that easily break of (or don't use any at all) to save a lot of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serena

Nice! That will be really interesting to see.


Yay!

Today's print took just under 12 hours- needed lots of supports which removed pretty cleanly. I do feel like I see imperfections more in this dark blue color. Also- it turned out really shiny. Not sure why- is it just the design? Anyway, I'm very happy with the level of detail you can get from the flashforge.

Attachment 3002

Attachment 3004

Attachment 3001

Attachment 3003

Anyone know how I rotate pics? Also, on that last one- see the roughness from the supports I removed? I tried sanding it and I feel like it looked worse. Maybe I need finer sandpaper... do you guys ever sand your pieces?

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Thanks for printing my Model :)

If you want to clean up sanding marks, use a cigarette lighter VERY gently on it, they will dissapear like magic. Easy way to rotate pictures is windows office picture manager, if you have Office.

I sand alot of prints, mainly support removal spots to clean them up, I use a small butane torch set to low and lightly flick over the white marks from sanding and supports.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dargonfly

Looks good! What settings did you use for it?

You always see imperfections better on darker and/or glossier colors. That's why I never trust printers (or painters) that only show white and/or matte products..
I prefer printing in glossy dark blue PLA. Gives me a very good visual of what settings I need to tweak to get better results.

I have filed a print sometimes, never used sandpaper (sandpapering small things with my large fingers is not doable.) But from what I've heard; sanding PLA is a bit more difficult then lots of other material. Just start with 200-300 grit and gradually move up to 1000.
But if possible; try making support that easily break of (or don't use any at all) to save a lot of time.

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Its ABS- layer height was .0.1700mm. Trying to find that sweet spot between high and medium quality. :) Everything was pretty much default S3D settings except I removed the brim and slowed down the first layer speed. I've been having problems with the brim not laying down good and creating little strings that then catch on the extruders and mess up the first layer. I haven't seen a way to slow down the speed of the brim because I think that would solve the problem. So I just took it out and slowed the first layer. That seems to be working ok. The supports were auto generated by s3d and came off easily. No problems at all. They just leave that tiny bit of roughness that really shows up in the darker color. I do love the way the dark colors look though. I can see why you use them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoff

Thanks for printing my Model :)

If you want to clean up sanding marks, use a cigarette lighter VERY gently on it, they will dissapear like magic. Easy way to rotate pictures is windows office picture manager, if you have Office.

I sand alot of prints, mainly support removal spots to clean them up, I use a small butane torch set to low and lightly flick over the white marks from sanding and supports.

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I didn't realize that was yours!!! I downloaded quite a few things to try out a while back. I think the Groot head I printed was yours too. Those two things are my most favorite things I've printed to date. Thank you for sharing them. They are so well done. Now that I've tried several different Thingiverse designs, I can really tell the difference in quality of the various choices. You are really good at sculpting great detail that prints beautifully. Nice job man. :-) My husband is a HUGE superman fan, so I printed that one for him. :)

I will definitely try your tip about the heat to smooth the roughness. That sounds like a great idea.

Apart from superman's chin - what else needed supports ?
Looking at the model it ought to print supportless without too much trouble.

(looks through geoffs thingiverse uploads)
WOW !
some seriously cool stuff there.

Tell you what you could do - how about a gonzo from the muppets ?
Well, it can't hurt to ask :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

Apart from superman's chin - what else needed supports ?
Looking at the model it ought to print supportless without too much trouble.
(looks through geoffs thingiverse uploads)
WOW !
some seriously cool stuff there.
Tell you what you could do - how about a gonzo from the muppets ?
Well, it can't hurt to ask :-)

---

The main area that needed supports was the arms. The cape had a little bit but probably would have done fine without them.

Some updated pics of recent prints:
Attachment 3070

First off- (really bad cell cell phone pic) but this geared heart printed great. It's so cool! Have you seen this model? It's a remixed one and it works like a charm. Super fun to play with! I was able to print all the parts in only two batches which wasn't bad at all. First batch was around 3hrs and second was maybe 4 or so. I did have to redo the pins with a raft because they kept slipping. Highly recommend trying this one!

Next I tried the t-rex skull that is on thingiverse. Great model- I was worried about the skull but turns out I've had more trouble with the rod and the platform. So this is a new one for me:


Attachment 3072

It's like a strip just peeled off. I tried sanding it smooth but more kept lifting. Like a thread I wish I hadnt pulled. Anyone tell me what went wrong?

Also, the rod has been a real pain. Tried printing it and it lifted off the bed so I rafted it but this happened:

Attachment 3073

This should be the easy piece to print but I can't seem to get it. Any advice?

The skull turned out great-
Attachment 3074

a little cracking but I think I had the temp too low:

Attachment 3075

This is such a great looking model though- and not too bad long of a print either. No supports at all which is awesome. Had to floss his teeth a bit with some sandpaper, but overall very smooth. I want to try it again with some modifications to my processes- once I figure out that stupid rod.

you need to print a little hotter to avoid the delamination.
Or use pla :-)

I've found it difficult to avoid the cracks in any solid block of abs.
I refer you to my previous answer ;-)