Who said that Zortrax has 1 year guarantee?
perhaps you should read difference between warranty and guarantee
yourself.
http://www.access-legal.co.uk/free-l...ranty-1314.htm
if zortrax would be only the manufacturer there would be requirements placed by, since zoltrax is also seller, then they need to respect law that specifies 2 years warranty from seller to consumer/"buyer" or "customer"
In some EU countries the consumer is specified with another word "buyer" or "customer" that means that 2 years warranty even applies to business customers in those countries. Zortrax not happy with this? they should contact EU. They bluntly shouted about filament price doubled price "We can say BIG THANKS for European government." They should apply this to themselves too.
Perhaps this proves to you that there is bottom print problem, if it can't be solved by this user even with 2 fans !
http://i62.tinypic.com/2im1a8w.jpg
Video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH0fJ...Kt3wnSYNS4ZSOQ
@huberbobas
Smart try but look at comment leaved by user which uploaded this video.
"This message is towards huberbobas. Two fans is just my own testing and has nothing to do with the ability to print underside off spehre. This is just the nature off FDM printing. Also no support is used."
PS. I didn't contacted with this user I see that he made reaction for your 'work' by himself.
Best Regards
Have a nice hate.
@huberbobas aka @hacklordsniper I don't know how many money Ultimaker team paid for this non-sense posts but this is very sad that they earn money for people like you :)
About warranty you should go to school and learn read with understanding. May I explain you briefly differences between the manufacturers warranty and guarantee.
Guarantee in EU is always on 2 years - for every products which you will buy. If you will buy UM, MB, Zortrax, or any RepRap printer you always have 2 years guarantee. Many companies change guarantee on their description in Manufacturers warranty. In true they not give any Manufacturers warranty, because they are obligated give 2 years guarantee. More informations about guarantee you will find on google. The sellers is not obligated include this informations on product description.
Guarantee has many limitations and you should not be interpreted so that it printer will breaks for you, and the seller is obligated to repair or replace it, this rules it has a manufacturers warranty.
Manufacturers warranty is not mandatory, and does not have to be given to the sold product. Only the best companies give Manufacturers warranty on 1 or 2 years.
As I know:
- Ultimaker have warranty for 3 months - poor information about warranty rules, I'm really afraid about fact if this company not break rules...: https://www.ultimaker.com/spree/uplo...of-service.pdf
- Makerbot have warranty for 6 months
- Zortrax have warranty for 12 months! - full description about warranty: http://zortrax.com/z-care-warranty
First you should learn more if you will want write something about law etc.
Another issue that of me wonders where you found the unhappy backers from the Kickstarter? Most of them are on Zortrax forum, and have not found anywhere information that were unhappy :)
Again, you write about something of which you have no idea. Now I know why you have been banned from their forum :) BECAUSE YOU ARE LIAR!
I hope, and I wish you that you will be banned here.
No regards
Jimmy
http://zortrax.com/z-care-warranty
http://eu.store.zortrax.com/index.ph...&product_id=50
Quote:
Option only for companies
For retail customers 12 month Z-Care Warranty is FREE
That tells you they do have a year warranty,
I would like to get this back on topic a bit, As this is becoming more like a debate against a few users,
I bet the user that started this topic knows everything he needs to know, He can basicly make his choice already,
If he has any questions he can still ask them but the last few posts werent realy anymore about helping the topic starter anymore.
Guarantee and Warranty are not the same thing.
Looks like Makershed (where I was planning to purchase the UM2 - if purchasing the UM2, which was the most likely plan) raised their price from about $2699 to $2999. How very annoying... they still don't have stock, but I believe this is in anticipation of them receiving their stock, as well as the high demand. Makes it a little less appealing now. I could purchase directly, but UM's lead time is still 8-10 weeks, not to mention the fact that shipping would be more expensive, as well as any international CC fees and duties.
Disappearing user posts from zortrax forum is really starting to look the norm for that forum, angry users are posting only in shoutbox for the same reason. Communication with zortrax is non existing, maybe it's fine if you are hobby user, but I can't imagine zortrax targeting businesses with this lack of communication, forum moderation attitude when any critics is censored.
When this forum will have a dedicated forum section for zortrax not moderated by zortrax staff you will see the real deal.
creating different forums is an advantage imho, look at cnczone forum very organized, many many forum sections. The threads count clearly shows popularity of a brand in an unbiased way. There are many advantages too.
Huberbobas, I did a quick Google search for your username and found that you've signed up to a few forums just to post negative comments about Zortrax. I don't see any other posts from you on any other topic besides the negative posts towards Zortrax... yet, you don't own one. Why bother? What's your agenda?
And why should anyone keep silent, when a company tries to use unfair marketing of a product? I have not heard any arguments that would show my claims to be false.
Why do you say negative? Highlighting problem areas can be positive! the manufacturer can improve or fix it, change their attitude on forums. How many companies do you know where CEO moderates the forum?
Seems like kindergarten to me, the CEO should not show the lack of communication and diplomacy with such actions. A busy CEO needs to manage the company, not censor forum posts. And zortrax needs to get the management together to reply to emails on time etc. The release of bonds for 10M seems funny to me at the state the company is now, would you invest into company that does not reply to emails for weeks?
And what stake do you have in the company? Why's it so important to you? I see no mention of you wanting to buy their product, nor any mention of you looking for another product. You joined the Ultimaker forum as well, only to post about Zortrax, and how they delete forum posts. No mention on the Ultimaker forum either of you being interested in purchasing a Zortrax nor an Ultimaker. Then I see a post from you on a jewelry making site complaining about the quality of someone's test print. Again, no other posts besides the one's against Zortrax, so from that it's clear you have some kind of agenda with this company... what it is, I really don't know nor care about, just that your opinion has become null for the fact.
I don't want to discuss opinions, do you have facts that my claims in this thread are false? If you have nothing to say then please do not say anything.
The zortrax password protected software and even user manual speaks for itself. i can't remember when was the last time I so a company protect user manual with a password to be able to read it? Do you?
Ignoring the troll and getting back on topic, I've been turned off by the UM2. It's probably a great printer, but I do feel that it's a bit expensive for what it is.
I've been looking at two others however... one is the Airwolf3D HD http://airwolf3d.com/store/products/...model-aw3d-hd/, the other is a little more risky... the F306 from a startup Fusion3 http://www.fusion3design.com/. It doesn't look like much, but look at that build volume! 12x12x12! and the prints look great! The AW3D is a little more than I want to spend, and the F306 is just unrefined, and a bit too homebrew, but both have everything going for them. The AW3D HD has a 12x8x12" build size and is able to print at 50microns after switching to a 0.35mm nozzle (of course, this increases the price even more, as it comes standard with only the 0.50mm nozzle).
After zortrax just recently disabled the "orders and shipping" forum section because numerous discussions they did not like to be public some users decided to post questions elsewhere:
Before it gets deleted here is a copy:
user kazz911
Quote:
1. We are sitting on beta software - with no updates in a long long time - and no progress reports at all. It has been > 1 1/2 months since last update - and we still can't auto calibrate the printer - and need to switch it on/off after each print to keep the heated bed hot.
2. We have been promised ability to buy spare parts - nothing has happened.
3. A mock up of a "Enclosure" to keep temperature stable was promised for just after Chinese new year
4. Delivery of PC ABS?
5. [edit] Almost forgot - 2nd extruder support - [ quote from Zortrax december "Dual Extruder upgrade is almost finished - we have a few cosmetic fixes. We can't promise a date but should be February or March"]
I'm just feeling that Zortrax does not care about us at all - or have other more "pressing issues"
I'm not far from putting my M200 up for sale - only due to complete lack of response(ability) shown from Zortrax. I only bought because they "used to be" very responsive.
I don't know if you feel the same. But I'm feed up with having a 1/2 functional printer.
Quote:
Hi Julia, I, among other things, do ARM micro-controllers for a living... 6 weeks is a LONG time when customers are already all on beta test "firmware" (lets be true - and call it Alpha test - beta test is reserved for "Feature complete and thought to be bug free" releases. Alpha release are releases with known bugs that are not feature complete. - most companies have forgotten the definitions though and call everything beta)
Quote:
Small Issues:
1. Sensor connector for the heated bed - is not really meant to be unplugged a lot. I don't have the spec sheet for that exact connector - but I would guess it is designed for max 200-500 disconnects. I don't have any good ideas on how to solve it - but I would stock a spare sensor cable and heated bed
Quote:
6 weeks is a long time to fix a stupid bug like heated build plat "reset needed" - things like that should be fixed same week it is reported. I'm not complaining that I can't print in higher / lower resolution. But I do want my printer to be able to run without I have to turn it on / off all the time. I also want that auto calibration. Those two issues are important. Next is the print quality - that should be better on the underside of prints. Rest - fine that they are not implemented right now - but a bit of openness would be nice - like this is our "release plan" - without dates on it.
Please remember - I did NOT buy as a Kickstarter. I bought after Kickstarter printers started shipping - and this forum was band new. Things happened quickly - lots of updates - and a reasonable amount of openness.
Now it is all about "closing" everything off - download of manual need serial number entry, no communications about what is going on. I think Zortrax think they are Microsoft. But again - that is just attitude. Right now Zortrax can not rely on me for recommendations - I tell people to stay far away at least until the brochure listed features are completed.
I don't know what I'll buy - but I think I'll go back to Ultimaker. At least they fix their bugs within reasonable short time (<2 weeks after I report a bug) - for indoor things I have gone back to using my Ultimaker I - since the lower surfaces look a lot nicer. Now I only use the Zortrax for outdoor stuff that has to be ABS.
No doubt it's a great machine, but for the price, I feel that there are better alternatives out there. Going back to the AW3D HD for example, with it's 12x8x12" build volume for just about the same price and without the 8-10week lead time. With the HD you're looking at about 3weeks, but nevermind the lead times... being that they're based in the U.S. support will be much easier to obtain, the jam-resistant hotend is highly rated, and I really like how they've set up ready-to-go profiles for different materials. That being said, there are also smaller companies that are producing very nice machines. Fusion3 for example (http://www.fusion3design.com/). 12x12x12" build volume, well built, all high quality parts, and the prints look fantastic. It too is the same price as the UM2... and after all of my research, it would probably be my first choice, if it weren't for the shipping cost. He ships LTL only, and to me it would be $330. While I think the machine is top notch, I can't justify the cost to have it delivered. That's not to say it isn't worth it, I'm just personally unwilling to part with that much just for delivery.
I've also been looking at Delta bots. Namely the Rostock Max V2 from SeeMeCNC. $1K for the kit... yes, it's a kit, but still worth a look. Though, the square build area would be pretty small, it would still be larger than the UM2's build area.
So, while I think the UM2 is a really nice machine, I think I can get more for my money elsewhere.
Still happy with their "incredible customer service" - I watched there site after you said how good they were. Sorry mate but I been laughing my feckin a$$ off after you spent all your time defending them and they just wwent ahead and walked all over you. I hope you have learned ! I sorry that you had to suffer and dont mean any bad feeling but they have royaly screwed you over and you are looking like a dum a$$ now aint you?
And they have played right into hands of huberbobas - they deleted there forum because they didnt want people to see there customers were pi$$ed off - he said they deleted stiff didn't he? You didn't listen did you?
They don't talk to there customers he warned you - you didnt listen did you?
They advertise that there printer beats everyone else, but its all theory and they actually cant do half the stuff they said can they? Levelling, Only 140 and 190 microns layer thickness - not the fine resolution 25, 50 or even 90 microns they have in ads . ABS that sticks (oh no it curls according to Simon there own staff).
If you aint already done it ditch them off as you aint getting anywhere with there incredible customer service now are you?
And you might want change the link you gave to your first thread showing how good they were -- they deleted it guy!
Mica
Here some more prints from zortrax users mirrored for obvious reasons:
Attachment 798Attachment 799Attachment 800Attachment 801
And official reponse from Szymon (zortrax staff)
Quote:
Please note that Z-ABS is not designed for printing elements as large as that. All of the described issues came from warping and cooling. You can follow the advices noticed by @dhatw and @julia (expect third-party filament - you do it for your own risk!), the best way for large prints is to use less-warping material (that will be available soon) or printing in pieces.
Best Regards,
Szymon
Well its kinda normal with ABS, every printer will have these problems,
I know they have Z ABS wich would be better as warping goes, But there are alot of other filaments wich seem to be as strong as ABS and do not have the Warping issues,
Like ColorFabs filament should be decent, from what i've heard.
Thats not realy a flaw of the machine, Just something that happens with every printer.
Mabey this Ultimaker clone can be good? Seems like a sturdy and good constructed bot imo.
http://www.mankati.com/fullscale-xt1....CtpjcoOw.dpbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsusR8CAG9U
Sam..... Check your PMs!!
Let me first say that I'm not to happy about my quotes being used on other sites - as I am the one who wrote the above.
But let me make it clear - I stand by my criticism - but the biggest issue with Zortrax is the big heads on the management. They should learn to listen to their customers. They have had since the kick-starter beginning to create the firmware and correct the bugs.
But the printer is built like a rock - it is very solid - and very quiet - and I'm not afraid to leave it while it prints. But the things mentioned in my quote are correct. Zortrax went from being very informative to no information at all. Went from software release every couple of weeks - to now none in 7 weeks despite some "idiotic" coding errors that could be fixed in a very short time.
But as I wrote on the Zortrax forum - I can not recommend the Zortax as it is now. To buggy and NOT feature complete. I do also find it cowardly that Zortax requires Serial Numbers to download software AND manuals - even the QUICKSTART requires a S/N to download. That would have made me NOT buy the printer in the first place.
And for me to recommend Zortrax again - the management would have to come "down" from their high horses to the level of their customers - and not display their petty fear by moving, deleting, limiting access and otherwise spoil what could have been a great Company AND Printer and User forum.
At the time of writing the Zortrax forum has been 'down for maintenance' for the past 3 days. Strange - as posts were starting to appear from customers questioning their delivery schedule. I was originally interested in purchasing their printer, but over the past month or so the companies attitude to customers has started to change for the worse, going by Zortrax's staffs forum posts (or lack of).
Before Zortrax placed their forum on maintenance mode (probably because they offering bonds and do not want investors to read their forum else their will not get their quick money) some users reported that they have received a printer with Z axis being simple trapezoidal screw, as you know a ball screw is used in zortrax.
No forum announcement was made regarding ball screw change etc. Do you want to buy from company that changes major components when they want? And you discover this when you receive the printer?
First they removed the no maintenance IGUS bearings, now the ball screw. This machine is not worth the money.
Zortrax forum member Tivoli posted: "My new Zortrax came with trapezoidal screw. What is the reason you resigned to use the ball screw for z axis?"
This has been confirmed by few forum posts by Zortrax CEO Rafal, stating that:
"@Tivol, it's many reasons why we change it:
1. Long delivery time, production has moved to 3-4 weeks.
2. Difficult assembly and maintenace.
3. We noticed several cases of damage Z coupler.
4. A large number of poorly made screws that had to be returned to the manufacturer.
5. In addition to the visual appearance there is no difference in print quality. The tests lasted almost half a year.
Best Regards,
Rafal
"
I would like to note that zortrax print platform is removable and held by magnets, you can conveniently remove the platform and then remove your print. This avoids any debrief getting anywhere.
User smile noted that: "Repetitive movements that are reproducible call for a ball screw, everybody know this. Lead screws are for cheap equipment like hobby CNC made in china etc. Can I get a printer with ball screw? At least there should be an option to choose."
However this user was banned afterwards.
This is all facts that has happened, this not gossip.
Well, just want to give an update as to which printer I've chosen, and why.
I have been seconds from purchasing the F306. I was given a discount and had an invoice set up, however, at the last minute, I was advised over and over again that the price was too high for what it was. Really, I think the price is decent, but I do think it's a very simplistic and economical design that should lend to a much lower price. In any case, considering I'm not a fantastic modeler, I've decided that spending $2800 is perhaps not the best idea for a beginner. I've decided to go with the Rostock Max V2. This printer has received great reviews from all those I've asked. In fact, even the creator of the F306 had said that SeeMeCNC (Rostock) is a good choice to go with if choosing a Delta style printer. At $999 + Shipping, it makes much more sense for someone to learn to model and print with. It is a kit, but I'm actually looking forward to that. I think it'll be a fun puzzle to play with. As for the printer itself. It has an 11" diameter x ~14" H build area. Not too bad, not great for square parts, but all the same. It comes with a Rambo board, which is nice, and perhaps I will be able to swap out the hotend for a E3D hotend, and perhaps even go dual extruder down the road.
You guys mention the attitudes of the Zortrax staff... this was one of the primary reasons I chose to stay away from this printer. The specs were so very very optimistic, however, at this stage it is still unable to print a higher resolution that 140microns, and PLA is a last priority for the Zortrax team. Their attitudes are a bit high and mighty I admit. They seem not very accommodating, or willing to listen to their customers.
Makerbot seems like they want to be the Apple of the industry. They're putting all of their efforts into the design, and not really the functionality.
Ultimaker 2... this one's tricky. Their machine's really nice. I have no issue with the quality of the machine, however, the price is just far too high for what you're getting. At nearly $3K shipped, it's just not worth it. I do see the clones popping up, and these look appealing, but, if I had to choose between a clone and the Rostock, it's not too tough a decision, as I'll have much more people to troubleshoot with owning a Rostock.
The Airwolf3D HD was another I was so very close to pulling the trigger on. I love that they have configurations already in place for the various types of filaments. They have a great all metal hotend based on the Budaschnozzle I believe. The issue that was pointed out to me about the HD was that the bed wouldn't be stiff enough for a build volume of its size, so that there would be a degradation in quality. Considering the tech behind the AW3D, I can pass for it being a $3K machine... and again, probably best not to spend that kind of money with my modeling experience, I've started to realize.
There were many many others in consideration, but price to performance, they just didn't have it. So, in the end, I think the SeeMeCNC machine win it. Would love to hear opinions on this though, if anyone has any.
There is also very nice printer called Mingda_3D_printer
http://esdmd.en.alibaba.com/product/...r_machine.html
Yes it's made in china, but print quality is very nice, then there is spiderbot.eu with their delta printer with chamber heater feature making big parts from abs no problem.
I ordered a Ultimaker 2 and canceled my order as soon i seen that. I got that printer and its great, built like a tank. The only details that i did not like is that they mounted x-y motors on standoffs so i machined them from alluminium (i have my machine shop so i did not have to buy them, but you can for 20 $ on ebay if needed). It prints perfect, the construction is strong, stable and rigid. All parts are of high quality and im perfectly happy. Compared to Ultimaker 2, UM2 looks like a dollar store toy. I have seen Ultimaker 2 in person and was surprised how cheaply it is built, clearly a product designed to fill someones pockets with alot of money, totally not worth what it costs. And check howmany people have problems with it (especially that cheap feeder) I have seen dollar store toys built more stable and rigid. On my printer feeder is made from aluminium, geared stepper and hardened steel feeding gear. It is enough strong to pull a stell cable if needed.
Zortrax is on the other hand lead by people that don't work honest, i would avoid that one even more. Their forum is heavily moderated, they gave up on that project but still "milking the cow" as long as they can. Most of users unfortunately ended with not working (bad working) printers and still hold back because they keep promising new firmware that will turn their printers to "gold". In latest time a lot of problems appeared with printers not delivered, and ones that were delivered with changed key components (cheaper ones) and accidentally their forum disappeared.
Im open for any questions :)
I see in the comments above that Zortrax silence their own users even talking to each now? This is really bad. Even if there were people who had caused problems - why did they ban everyone talking. This is just another example of a Sh * t companys who do not know how to run a business. I think that this is quite common for companies starting at Kickstarter . They may have a great idea, but they do not understand about any of the other things they need to do for a buyer.
I know that I picked out technical deficiencies in their product before , and I would not buy one for me, but if someone at Zortrax reads this - begin to respect the customers you have because they will surely leave. If you turn off the site, they will simply start their own and walk away from you. Then you have no control at all and may not even write your response.
For them customer, please start behaving Zortrax
Hello!
I agree with your opinion, i was lookin to buy Zortrax myself some time ago. I asked questions, did not get answer. I posted on forum and got banned, and that told me enough. I have also noticed later that the staff was very rude to customers on forums many times and even insulting them, banning them and what not.
I would not agree its common for Kickstarter companies.
Thank you for the thread..
I was trying to decide between a Zortrax or UM2, but now I'm even more confused! :)
Took me over a month to decide. As someone coming into 3D printing for the very first time, it's easy to let the marketing hype make your decision for you, but best thing to do is visit the manufacturer forums, or forums like this and just read about the experiences from the users. Read the troubleshooting sections to see what problems people are having, read the "what are you making" type threads, to see the quality of prints coming out of the machine. My budget was $3K when I went into this mindset of purchasing a printer, but after having learned so much I decided to go with the SeeMeCNC Rostock Max V2 kit, and build it myself. I finished my build a couple of days ago... it took me much longer than it typically would as I have severe back pain, and there was a lot of waiting on parts for upgrades that I wanted to add initially. I spent $995 on the kit, and additionally about $300 on tools and parts for upgrades. I'm pretty happy with my decisions. My very first print looked great for the most part, and now I have a much better understanding of the mechanics of the machine. I'm not afraid to take apart the hotend and such.
You have a lot of options other than those two choices right now. Almost too many options. You may want to take a look at the Wanhao 4X, looks pretty good with dual extruders. Cheap too, at about $1100. Just don't feel that you need to spend the kind of money UM2 is asking for their machine to get quality prints.
That's what's killing me! I have an Up Plus 2 - and I'm reasonably happy with the print quality, but the print volume of that machine isn't enough for me anymore.
I actually do like their software and raft system- peeling the raft off does make for a very clean bottom without any post-processing.. there are very few reviews talking about how the bottom of the prints look.
Unfortunately I don't have too much time to DIY, but that rostock does look very cool. I just wish there were a printer with all the upgraded parts, -everything- you could want in a single kit. Fiddling with settings is my nightmare.
My ideal 3D printer is one that works right out of the box(hah- even the up plus needed fiddling in the form of replacing the build platform with a glass one and doing manual levelings etc..), can do ABS and PLA, has around 8"^3 (the bigger the better) build volume, is accurate, ideally is quiet but that's not a must, and fast. Of course, good software is a plus too. I'm sure everyone is looking for something like that, though :)
Yeah, I hear you, I wanted to upgrade everything on this thing before I even had a chance to see how it runs stock. I ended up just going with a few upgrades: 24V 31A power supply, dampers on the motors, which makes it much more quiet, and a screw-in thermistor, for which I had to drill and tap a hole for in the hotend (which made me nervous). I really want to go dual extruder and I'm looking into whether or not an all metal hotend would be a good idea (E3D for example).
What you're looking for is definitely what I was looking for. Except once I started looking at 8"^3 build volumes, I wanted even more!! ;) Have you looked into Airwolf printers? They look really good too, albeit a little pricey. They have a really nice looking hotend, so no need to upgrade that part.