Things that still suck about the V1 printer - according to the founder

Hey IDefINIte,

please stay on a professional level,
If you've followed this project at least to some extend, you'd know that the Peachy uses a UV laser (as pretty much every SLA-Printer ot there) and that the resin not only floats on top of the water but doesn't even mix at all.
Before ranting please consider having a look at what they've already achieved (The Kickstarter Updates). The prints do have a quality that is absolutely comparable to other printers way more expensive and although the Peachy Printer itself is a hackable product, the technology of floating the resin on water itself definitely isn't a fail/hack.

quertz

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Originally Posted by Deadbot1

Rylan, could you try an experiment for me? Could you try heating the tank of salt water and the build tank, say by using an aquarium heater? My thought is that by heating the resin to around 100 to 120 degreesF (37-48C) the viscosity of the resin will go down and reduce surface tension. If it is a surface tension problem causing the holes then this should make it go away. Also, I'm curious as to what effect a thinner resin would have on the print quality.

edit: heated thinned out resin may also make faster prints possible?

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I just brought an aquarium heater to the shop the other day, Not sure when we will try this but when we do Ill be sure to post about it.

Iv have researched a bit, though the water technique has seemed speculative to me sorry. On that Im out on the Peachy personally. Way to much refraction with that and Im still hung up on keeping pure resin for later. Also maby I misremembered seeing a red laser. I assumed it was heat cured resin with the red beam. My mistake. I have seen blue/purple UV lamp techniques the entire time Iv looked up liquid resin printers. The correction was a bright note on my doubts of this printer, though I havent yet seen UV laser scanning so that might be fun tech for you guys. When I say doubts though I mean there was only one place for my 100 dolllars to go at this point in home printing technology and Peachy kept doing for me. By the way I do have a better technique that Iv sent to Rylan in the background. Its a two birds technique that I feel brings professionalism to their product. It spawned a backhanded compliment from him which was entirely professional in my eyes. The post I made to him was awkward but I felt it necessary to say what I said. Still do when i say i doubt the water technique. Maby querts that clears something up. I have a makeable concept in mind for what ill do on my end not a hackable one.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

Iv have researched a bit, though the water technique has seemed speculative to me sorry. On that Im out on the Peachy personally. Way to much refraction with that and Im still hung up on keeping pure resin for later.

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If you did any research at all, you would have known that resin does not mix with water and therefore remains pure, that it can float on top of salt water, etc. By the way, quertz already told this to you: "resin not only floats on top of the water but doesn't even mix at all". But clearly you did not read his message carefully. And what refraction, what you are talking about? Peachy Printer prints on top surface of the resin, before hitting resin surface, laser beam passes only through the air.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

Also maby I misremembered seeing a red laser. I assumed it was heat cured resin with the red beam.

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Didn't you watch the video at peachyprinter.com homepage? It clearly shows how it prints: on top of the water floats pure resin, which is cured with UV laser. Also, this forum have many threads where UV laser and UV-curable resins are discussed.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

By the way I do have a better technique that Iv sent to Rylan in the background. Its a two birds technique that I feel brings professionalism to their product.

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Even if you actually have "better technique", it most likely will be more expensive than water and drip system.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

The post I made to him was awkward but I felt it necessary to say what I said. Still do when i say i doubt the water technique.

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It definitely was not necessary, because without knowing basic facts about Peachy Printer or even UV-curable resins in general you claimed that the idea has to die, even though it proved to be successful (just look at the Peachy gallery and watch the video) and inexpensive.

"resin not only floats on top of the water but doesn't even mix at all"

ok fine but when i pack up my printer or drain my tank what do i do with the water? do i now need some sort of shaker device to dissipate the 2 liquids perfectly so that they dont collide during the next print? maby this is where the holes were comming from. this being used on the videos i watched is new ill check again.

Also these 2 collided for me

1 And what refraction, what you are talking about? Peachy Printer prints on top surface of the resin, before hitting resin surface, laser beam passes only through the air.

2 It clearly shows how it prints: on top of the water floats pure resin, which is cured with UV laser.

my though was the hack as i callled it broke "surface" or top layer tension by pulling the resin up with water. Its a great thought when purely physics based but terrible when in function practice.

Even if you actually have "better technique", it most likely will be more expensive than water and drip system.

yes and no. yes being more parts would be used to make my system. it streamlines the whole operation to me and is what id throw together in my home. no i dont think the cost of the Peachy would have to take any heat with the way id see the manufacturing put into place. alot of my post to Rylan was on the price points being thrown around. i did take sometime to explain the downside iv been seeing and put in a warning on the Freudian bubble about to be popped in this industry but i think i ended on good terms. he said $99 dollars and i was very intrigued about this tankless printer but i still wont invest into this as a water machine. the idea shouldnt die, it should live! and kick the ass of every company that didnt release this 99 dollar technology to the public. it just needs to be dialed in more to me.

double morning post.

SORRY.

the saltwater concept completely left my mind after picking it up. i just rewatched "how it works" from their blog... go figure. i was thinking on using 100's of dollars of resin and re batching it. im split on methods here. the salt water is probably churning with laser heat and making its way into the resin making the holes. i wonder what comes ontop in a shake test :P. great cost saver though if a tolerance is made to stop heat and wave transference. i still find it hacky but yes its cheep and effective.

sorry to the community for being a lost forward in my posts. the concept of the Peachy is an industry killer i sware.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

double morning post.
the salt water is probably churning with laser heat and making its way into the resin making the holes.

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Interesting thought. I wonder if sugar water might be a better solution.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

ok fine but when i pack up my printer or drain my tank what do i do with the water? do i now need some sort of shaker device to dissipate the 2 liquids perfectly so that they dont collide during the next print?

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You do not need any special device. There are many ways to remove water from the bottom, but simplest in my opinion is to use a pump. Either manual pump (less than $2 on ebay) or motorized. You do not have to remove salt water completely, it is OK to leave some water on the bottom. All you need is to bring down top surface of the resin so you could start printing again. You could easily remove remaining slim layer of salt water at the bottom completely, with syringe for example, but that's not necessary, you can safely store your resin with some water at the bottom, it will not harm it (only reason I can think of to completely remove salt water would be if you decide to use remaining resin in some bottom-up printer). What to do with removed salt water? Usually you would want to put it back to the top reservoir, if motorized pump is used, you could pump it up there with a push of a button.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

my though was the hack as i callled it broke "surface" or top layer tension by pulling the resin up with water. Its a great thought when purely physics based but terrible when in function practice.

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Are you referring to mike_biddell's idea from other thread to use normal water as top layer, resin in the middle and salt water in the bottom? If so, you could have made it much clearer by using proper quotes and references. Yes, that idea would be a hack because to make it work properly you have to hack the software to take the top distiled water layer into account, not to mention other complications (for example, top water layer will evaporate slowly and change its thickness). But like other hacks/mods for Peachy from this forum, most users will not need them, and at the moment such ideas are intended only for small group of people who would like to experiment, and may not even give any obvious improvement.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

i was thinking on using 100's of dollars of resin and re batching it.

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I do not think that UV resin is conductive, so you would have to invent your own hack for the drip system intended for conductive salt water or replace it with something else. And using so much resin just to fill printing volume would be a waste, if you have so much money it is better to get many different resins and have them in many different colors, or just save a lot of money for something else if you do not need this. Also keep in mind that resin have limited shelf life so having too much resin is not a good idea. All of these are the reasons why Peachy uses salt water instead of enormous quantities of resin.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

i wonder what comes ontop in a shake test

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Since water and resin do not mix and salt is dissolved in the water but pretty much cannot be dissolved in the resin, resin will come up on top.

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Originally Posted by IDefINIte

the salt water is probably churning with laser heat and making its way into the resin making the holes

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That's physically impossible. Resin is almost opaque for UV light, so UV laser affects mostly resin surface. Truly unpigmented resins usually have severe light bleeding issues and practically cannot be used without pigmentation. Some pigments are clear for visible light but almost opaque for UV light, so it is possible to have "tranparent" UV-curable resin. But the point is, very little or none (depends on the resin) of laser power reaches the water. And by the way, by heating up both water and the resin there is a chance to improve print quality and reduce probability of unwanted small holes/bubbles in the print (if you or somebody else would like to discuss this idea please post to Heated tank to mitigate surface tension? thread).

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Originally Posted by /dev/null

You do not need any special device. There are many ways to remove water from the bottom, but simplest in my opinion is to use a pump. Either manual pump (less than $2 on ebay) or motorized. You do not have to remove salt water completely, it is OK to leave some water on the bottom. All you need is to bring down top surface of the resin so you could start printing again. You could easily remove remaining slim layer of salt water at the bottom completely, with syringe for example, but that's not necessary, you can safely store your resin with some water at the bottom, it will not harm it (only reason I can think of to completely remove salt water would be if you decide to use remaining resin in some bottom-up printer). What to do with removed salt water? Usually you would want to put it back to the top reservoir, if motorized pump is used, you could pump it up there with a push of a button.


Are you referring to mike_biddell's idea from other thread to use normal water as top layer, resin in the middle and salt water in the bottom? If so, you could have made it much clearer by using proper quotes and references. Yes, that idea would be a hack because to make it work properly you have to hack the software to take the top distiled water layer into account, not to mention other complications (for example, top water layer will evaporate slowly and change its thickness). But like other hacks/mods for Peachy from this forum, most users will not need them, and at the moment such ideas are intended only for small group of people who would like to experiment, and may not even give any obvious improvement.


I do not think that UV resin is conductive, so you would have to invent your own hack for the drip system intended for conductive salt water or replace it with something else. And using so much resin just to fill printing volume would be a waste, if you have so much money it is better to get many different resins and have them in many different colors, or just save a lot of money for something else if you do not need this. Also keep in mind that resin have limited shelf life so having too much resin is not a good idea. All of these are the reasons why Peachy uses salt water instead of enormous quantities of resin.


Since water and resin do not mix and salt is dissolved in the water but pretty much cannot be dissolved in the resin, resin will come up on top.


That's physically impossible. Resin is almost opaque for UV light, so UV laser affects mostly resin surface. Truly unpigmented resins usually have severe light bleeding issues and practically cannot be used without pigmentation. Some pigments are clear for visible light but almost opaque for UV light, so it is possible to have "tranparent" UV-curable resin. But the point is, very little or none (depends on the resin) of laser power reaches the water. And by the way, by heating up both water and the resin there is a chance to improve print quality and reduce probability of unwanted small holes/bubbles in the print (if you or somebody else would like to discuss this idea please post to Heated tank to mitigate surface tension? thread).

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I do hope my suggestion hasn't caused any confusion. A thin water layer on top of the resin, as dev/null has stated is NOT the normal operating mode of the Peachy. I was merely exchanging/kicking about, ideas about with other hackers to get their opinions (it's always good to talk). It's just something I will try when I get my Peachy. After all, just because something should work in theory, doesn't mean it will work in practice as refraction effects may rule it out.

Im just going to put it out there during this back and forth. Im a non-functioning Schizophrenic. I have a decent grasp on the printer at this point and Im looking for some projects. Unfortunately this print qualtiy is sending me back to making my own printer. I sware I can do it on my on time frame. Old thoughts colliding with a new state.

By the way i got the heat/wave thought wrong. Its an easy one actually. Sorry for the confusing posts.

Correct me if Im wrong...
Step 1 Dump in resin for prints
Step 2 Water drip starts but has no room to fit under the resin. When acting like fluid substances will the 2 collide and in this case the resin is one denser and hydrophobic. So... When the resin solution is disrupted by the turmoil of the water drip the water pushes up before out and making an even elevator. Peachy is not getting a clean underlayer of water pushing up the resin. Instead water makes pockets inside the solution.

Step 3 Get lucky wither a pocket of water will enter your print or not.

I still am confused why some prints are glasslike and others seem to look like someone was trying to laser sinter the top of a moving resin Atlantic Ocean.
I suggested in the background a test with clear resin and colored water.Should be guaranteed if im now thinking the water lift right, somehow that escaped my mind.

Im going to call it reverse lava lamping. Lamping for short.

You have made two erroneous assumptions in Step 2. First, the water doesn't drip onto the open surface of the resin. Second, the water is heavier than the resin due to the salt content.

There is a tube that directs the salt water to the bottom of the resin vat, any turbulence in the salt water/resin interface is contained inside the tube until the bubbles of water exit out of the tube firmly at the bottom of the tank, where they stay.

Feign i did assume the water was going to float ontop the resin. That was wrong. i didnt not assuming the water dripped ontop but in the middle, and unevenly. the bubbles are poppping out in random ways building a larger mass which now im thinking pops out underneath. id assume the resin traps the bubbles sometimes making the holes in the prints. wich might be dead by now. there hasnt been many posts.

they could try an egg beater test and pouring wating into resin from a pitcher. probably simple enough to see it trapped or not.

since i dropped in this babble and iv had the working of this printer wrong the whole time i guess ill just ask here. how do i start a print with this thing? if theres a 1/2 inch to an inch of resin floating does the printer just uv cure through plastic to make a base of standoffs?

Hey IDefINIte,

As far as I know from the Updates and Videos, the print works as follows:
(With a small sketch; probably one of the worst pictures I've made so far but it shows what I want to show)
Attachment 8080
You have a Tank containing some salt water and a wire mesh.
There is a tube going down into the water at the side for the drips.
You put a layer of resin on the water.
You start the dripper and the print.
As the water starts to raise, the printer prints a support structure that encloses the mesh.
Once the top of the layer is above the "grill", the printing of the object can begin.


Cheers,
quertz

Grill was the answer thanks quertz

I know printing accurate to dimensions in the x and y axis had been an issue previously mentioned and am wondering if any progress has been made to resolve it and if so how accurate it has gotten.

It is still a matter of calibration, but it is getting very close.